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Open mike 04/01/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 4th, 2013 - 126 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

126 comments on “Open mike 04/01/2013”

  1. Weehaa!

    It looks like we may have enough signatures to require a referendum on asset sales although I would urge people to keep collecting just in case …

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8141848/Asset-sales-petition-gets-its-numbers

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      And when I checked the poll on the page ~67% said that they would vote against asset sales.

      • LynWiper 1.1.1

        It’s now 72% 🙂

      • Rogue Trooper 1.1.2

        Lynn (or someone else on the Bridge) can you please open the “gate”; you know i’m “human” and i’ll stop worrying the flock and be a good dog (lifts paw and tilts head)

        -bobbie

        • Rogue Trooper 1.1.2.1

          Hi Lynn and folks’ my misbehavin around the full moon has led to the activation of the s.bot captcha entry requirement. Could you please alleviate this thorn in my paw and I will endeavour to be more restrained (on leash) Thankyou, i would be grateful.

  2. Morrissey 2

    Grumpy Old Men
    Brian Edwards: Paul Holmes “is not and never was a racist”

    While most decent people in New Zealand were taken aback, even flabbergasted, to see that a career of race-baiting and assiduous fawning and flattery had earned Paul Holmes a knighthood, there were of course commentators who defended the travesty. Some of those who tried to justify the knighthood were Holmes’s former and current colleagues, who no doubt felt obliged to defend a colleague, no matter how unpleasant he might be, no matter what he might have said and done in the past. We saw the same unedifying line-up of celebrity support after another NewstalkZB host, Tony Veitch, was revealed to have attacked and grievously injured his fiancée.

    Most of those who felt compelled to defend the award made a point of reminding us of Holmes’s “tireless work for charity” and his “generosity”. Hardly any of them was foolish enough to mention the Banquo’s ghost in the room: Holmes’s shameful record of crude race-baiting and hate-mongering, most notoriously against black Africans, but most consistently against Māori and the poor.

    One “liberal” commentator, however, went one step further; Brian Edwards used his blog to write a giddy paean to Holmes. Many readers joined in the expression of adoration for the great man; former New Zealand First staffer Rex Widerstrom rhapsodized on “Paul’s intellect and his humanity”, one Rosina Hauiti raved about his “illustrious career”, and, most contemptibly of all, Labour Party MP Annette King called Holmes “funny warm and compassionate”, and asserted that she “can’t understand the vitriol being written.”

    It was not all fulsome praise, however. Many readers, including the venerable Standardista “Millsy”, expressed scorn and disbelief at the knighthood. For their sins, they suffered the indignity of having their comments deleted and replaced by a scolding by Edwards himself, were compared to witch-hunters, and were sent to Siberia along with the unspeakable Bomber Bradbury, who is damned by Holmes-booster John Phillips as a “swinish, loathsome, small-minded worm”.

    There was one thing that bothered me above all else: Edwards assured a skeptical reader that Holmes “is not and never was a racist”. This was a step too far, and I just had to remonstrate. I posted up the following comment….

    Brian, when you asserted that Paul Holmes “is not and never was a racist”, I guess you were in the same extremely indulgent frame of mind as when you stated, on radio, that P.J. O’Rourke was “deep down, a very serious person” and when you lauded the “brilliance” of the unfunny New Zealand Herald cartoonist Rod Emmerson.

    BE: I don’t believe I have ever said anything about P.J. O’Rourke since I have never read his books and know nothing about him. Perhaps you can let me know when and where I am supposed to have said this. As for Emmerson you seem to be confusing the fact that you personally find him unfunny with whether or not he his cartooning skill can be described as brilliant. Anyway, to test the worth of what you write, perhaps you could supply chapter and verse for my supposed comments on Mr O’Rourke. I’ll apologise if I’m wrong and I’ll expect you to do the same. And god only knows what any of this has to do with my post on Paul Holmes.

    Like Millsy, I had a comment deleted as well, but Edwards’s admonition remains….

    BE: Your comment, which I’ve deleted, was unworthy even of you. It was vile. I don’t want you on this website. And don’t worry about the O’Rourke quote. I know I couldn’t have said it.

    This is the comment Edwards deleted….

    Have a Happy New Year, you unrecognised oiks—and remember, if you see a deranged old man shouting insults at Māori family groups over the summer, don’t say “Fuck off to Queensland you racist scum”, say “Fuck off to Queensland, Sir Paul.”

    http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2012/12/paul-holmes-starry-starry-knight/#comments

    A REQUEST TO ALL RADIO LISTENERS
    If you heard Brian Edwards interview P.J. O’Rourke in the late 1990s, could you please write to Brian Edwards and remind him of it. He seems to have very poor recall.

    • Te Reo Putake 2.1

      Wow, Mozza makes a statement he can’t back up and then has a cry about how unfair it is to be called on it. Funny old world, eh?

      • Morrissey 2.1.1

        Look carefully, my friend: the one having a cry is the good Dr. Edwards. First the blubbering is in the form of tears of joy, to express his admiration for a notorious racist, then it transmogrifies into tears of anger as he deals to us naysayers and spoilsports.

        I can’t provide the day of Edwards’s interview of O’Rourke, but it certainly happened. I might sometimes not get a quote verbatim, and my memory is not always perfect, but I don’t make things up.

        Or if I do, as when that I made that Sacha Baron Cohen interview on Letterman segue into a Nazi rally in the last line, I make it quite clear that it’s being done for effect.

        • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1.1

          Morrissey, if you claim something is a quote, when it is actually just your dodgy recollection and not the actual words, then you are going to get called on it, just as you did with your bigoted rants about Baron Cohen. Don’t use quote marks when it’s not a quotation and you’ll save yourself a lot of bother.

          However, it appears BE did interview PJ O’Rourke …

          http://collections.soundarchives.co.nz/search.do?id=352200&db=object&page=1&view=detail

          • Morrissey 2.1.1.1.1

            Thanks, Te Reo. Not only are you a gentleman, you’re a freaking scholar as well.

        • felixviper 2.1.1.2

          You accused Edwards of saying something, he denied it and asked you to verify your claim, and you admit that you can’t.

          Then you owe Edwards an apology.

          • Morrissey 2.1.1.2.1

            You really are a fool. While you were labouring over those two poorly written sentences, our friend Te Reo Putake had already verified my statement.

            • felixviper 2.1.1.2.1.1

              Fuck you talk a lot of shite Morrissey. TRP showed that an interview exists.

              We’re still waiting for you to establish that your “quote” exists.

              • Morrissey

                My quote is correct. Edwards made a habit after each interview (or, more accurately, each uncritical audience) of making a comment on the departed guest.

                He made a particularly cowardly, sneering dismissal of Bill Clinton’s brother Roger, after interviewing him for half an hour one day. Edwards sniggeringly expressed his contempt for Roger Clinton’s southern manners, particularly the way he kept calling Edwards “sir”. Despite having such a distinguished brother, Roger Clinton spoke with a southern accent, so Edwards did not deem him worthy of respect.

                With the patrician O’Rourke, on the other hand, Edwards was the picture of servility. And he DID make the ridiculous comment that O’Rourke, who is more flippant and glib than even our own Mike Hosking, was “deep down, a very serious person.” Not that Edwards would remember of course.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Your quote may well be correct, but you haven’t proven it to be so, Moz. I imagine it’s possible that Edwards did say it, or something similar, because the tears of the clown is such a cliche. I can well imagine any interviewer of a comedian finishing up with a banal comment like that.

                  I guess the reason your claim got the reaction it did from BE is because it was so irrelevant to the discussion about Holmes. It looks like straw clutching desperation and it was an attack on his credibility on his own site. Banning in those circ’s seems perfectly reasonable and an obvious outcome of your approach.

                  As I mentioned earlier, if you are going to claim things as being fact, you should be prepared to back up your statements. It’s even better if you do the research before making the claim!

                  By the way, Bill Clinton, like his brother, speaks with a southern accent. I imagine that is due to them both being brought up in the south. D’oh!

                  • Morrissey

                    All very good points, as always, Te Reo.

                    And yes, he DID make that comment praising O’Rourke as “deep down, a very serious person.”

                    Now, if only I can dig up that BASF C-60….

            • muzza 2.1.1.2.1.2

              Morrissey, looks like you have attracted the attentions of the *brigade* today, must be your turn again!

              I’m sure Felix is preparing some prize winning retort using the same inept tactics as can be seen here yet again today.

                • felixviper

                  Oh god it’s dumb and dumber.

                  If you two (or is it just the one, I can never tell…) don’t like getting called out for what you write, then stick to writing things you can verify.

                  It’s that simple really.

                  • QoTViper

                    Here’s a question. Why is it a *~*~*~*brigade*~*~*~* when it’s felix and TRP taking the same side on an issue, but not when it’s muzza and Mozza tag-teaming?

                    Oh, right, because muzza wants to pretend this is all some vast [insert today’s favourite adjective] conspiracy to Suppress The Truth And Expect People To Stand By Their Copypasta, or something.

                    • McFliper

                      M&M are a “Legion”. About the same size as a brigade, but with an inclination to read entrails rather than work within the limitations of the fog of war.

                    • Morrissey

                      McFliper writes….
                      M&M are a “Legion”. About the same size as a brigade, but with an inclination to read entrails rather than work within the limitations of the fog of war.

                      The “fog of war”? Oh yes, that’s the excuse they use for this sort of thing, isn’t it…
                      http://www.anglonautes.com/hist_us_20_war_viet_my_lai_1968/hist_us_20_war_wiet_pic_mylai_bodies.jpg

                      And this…

                    • McFliper

                      lol

                      Reading entrails would have more relevance than what you just wrote.

                    • Morrissey

                      Reading entrails would have more relevance than what you just wrote.

                      Oh really? How so?

                    • McFliper

                      Because sometimes entrails make funny sounds which would be in keeping with my not particularly serious comment. And you can use the hollow carcass as a finger puppet. Whereas you took three words and ran with them into territory neither relevant nor humourous, as is your habit.

                      I mean, come the fuck on – My Lai from an (admittedly not very good) semantic joke about “brigade” vs “legion”? Fuck sake.

                      edit: and I’m busy today, so it’s likely I won’t be further engaging in this particular encounter with the Legion of Doolally.

      • Lauda Finem 2.1.2

        Gidday Te Reo Bukkake,

        It seems mate that you are intent on negligently diminishing the meaning and power of certain significant English language words to the status of irrelevance. It also seems that you have made a habit of trolling blogs belittling the opinions, values and beliefs of the writers and commentators (below are a couple of example of your trolling for your fellow Standard readers to see, there are a shit load more for those who might care to look online):

        “There’s a lot of funny ironies on blogs, and this is one – a commenter on The Standard has accused me of stalking him:

        Te Reo Putake…

        27 September 2012 at 3:52 pm
        ps, prism, you’re not alone in trying to work out the meaning. Check out my stalker!

        There’s actually multiple ironies there. ‘Te Reo Putake’, previously ‘The Voice of Reason’, is one of the most unreasonable voices I’ve seen at The Standard, a union/Labour hack who tries to shut out any voices he doesn’t like”

        Source: http://yournz.org/tag/te-reo-putake/
        (captured 7:10am, AESDT, 4/1/2013)

        “Notrotsky Le Sphincter • 8 months ago −
        Hello it’s VoR aka Te Reo Putake ! Labour and union lickspittle and regular felcher at the Stranded.

        Over for a troll are you old boy ?”

        Source: http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/05/a-crisis-of-leadeship/
        (captured 7:12am, AESDT, 4/1/2013)

        For the purpose of this exercise we’re going to focus on a comment you made in “open mike” on the 2/1/2013 (# 3.2.3.4) and your grossly irresponsible misuse of the word “RACIST”:

        “Help me, Jebus! I love the way the writer can’t help launching into a racist tirade against Kiwis, before chiding TS posters for being too sensitive”

        Source: http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02012013/
        (captured 7:15am, AESDT, 4/1/2013)

        So to start. Who exactly is “Jebus!” and how exactly do you expect his or her help? Now lets take a close look at the words RACIST and race and the meanings that are attributed to both words by the Oxford Dictionary;

        Definition of racism

        The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

        theories of racism
        prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior

        Source: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/racism
        (captured 7:16am, AESDT, 4/1/2013)

        Definition of race

        Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics:
        people of all races, colours, and creeds
        [mass noun] the fact or condition of belonging to a racial division or group; the qualities or characteristics associated with this.
        a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.

        Source: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/race–2
        (captured 7:16am, AESDT, 4/1/2013)

        We sincerely hope that the above definitions will assist you in using the word RACIST in a more appropriate context. It is of course impossible for us to have launched into a “racist tirade against Kiwi’s” with our commentary on the behavioral patterns of New Zealander’s when confronted with injustice and or that county’s obvious fiscal dependence on Australia

        Kiwi’s do not constitute a race, nor do New Zealander’s for that matter, both terms are a reference to nationality only.

        When one misuses a word such as ‘Racist” in the way that you clearly have, the power of the word and its significant meaning are greatly diminished.

        In future mate, when you feel like a spot of trolling why not pop over to Lauda Finem and attempt to take a crap in our yard, instead of shitting all over the Standards front lawn

        IrishBill: what a pointless, self-obsessive, and banal mess of text. I’ve seen automated spam that did a better job of commenting than this. You’re banned for life for what I can only describe as one of the most tragic comments in the history of this blog.

        • felixviper 2.1.2.1

          Goodness.

          Te Reo, is this true? Are you really a commenter on teh internets?

          Oh the scandal.

          • Te Reo Putake 2.1.2.1.1

            I thought it would always be my secret shame, felix! But, gosh, if they’re quoting Pete George, the gig is clearly up. Not to mention the deadly blow of featuring some tool on Whaleoil wrongly identifying another commenter as me. The evidence is overwhelming, its a fair cop, guvnor, but society is to blame.

            And, it’s really important that nobody should wonder whether the deliberate misspelling of my handle by the not at all homophobic Lauda Finem is in any way racist, because it’s just not, OK?

            • mike 2.1.2.1.1.1

              lol good call Irish. I’m glad this site sets a decent standard when it comes to “hey I wanna fight wit u” low-brains like this.

              On the other hand ‘Notrotsky Le Sphincter’ is an awesome name, so maybe it’s all true… Now I’m all confused…

        • lprent 2.1.2.2

          Oh – another whiner like PG.. I left this comment on his post.

          The purpose of The Standard is stated in our about and what moderators do is outlined in the policy. You’re referring to this comment (are you incapable of linking accurately?)

          You quoted Pete George of YourNZ as an authority – FFS even Cameron Slater tends to be more accurate than PG who has an uncanny ability to be as slippery as a personal lubricant . But basically PG got harassed by Te Reo Putake because the PG made and continued to make statements that he could not or would not defend. For some reason the gonzo got upset about being called to justify his silly assertions.

          Like you, PG also got through a wee tantrum because he got a permanent ban. He got his for trying to tell us how to run our site.

          You got your permanent ban because you triggered the well-honed anti-trolling instincts of IrishBill when you indulged in masturbating your juvenile ego in a single comment on the site. Basically you said nothing of much interest, indulged in some kind of silly and largely meaningless debating room semantics, displayed yourself as being a shallow pretentious fool, and added nothing to the debate you commented on.

          In short, you remind me of Pete George and received an appropriate moderation – which if you follow in PG’s footsteps, you will proceed to whine pitifully about for the next year.

          Mind you, it does make the rather tedious debate about “rent boy” that I’ve had to read look almost meaningful by comparison. I’m rather expecting the comment to never appear on Lauda Finem?

          • Rogue Trooper 2.1.2.2.1

            Lynn, did you receive my call?

            • lprent 2.1.2.2.1.1

              Your e-mail? Yep. You are in the hands of cloudflare, who once a moderator manually flags your comment as spam (as you had) will require you to pass a captcha. The result gets placed in auto-moderation.

              When it is released by a moderator, you get your commenting freedom back again – at least for the next 30 days which is what I set it to. The system now looks at you as being provisionally human. Basically it does not pay to have a moderator get irritated enough to flag you as spam (and I’m thankful that they seldom do – banning is much less consequential).

              Be warned that akismet also looks at manually flagged spam. Unlike cloudflare which only collects stats inside its own network, akismet covers the whole wordpress universe. It is (fortunately) just a little less judgemental.

              You should be ok now that a message has made it through.

              • Rogue Trooper

                will there be another “challenge” similar to the captcha (in ad finitum?) or…

                • lprent

                  You might get one at 30 days. You may not. Eventually if you pass it (I’m HUMAN!) enough and you don’t get flagged again you won’t see it again.

                  I suspect you won’t see the 30 day one because of previously passed comments. However I have no control over the workings – and it is currently protecting me from ~20k spam comments per week.

                  • Rogue Trooper

                    Sir! Thank You Sir, That will be all Sir! I’ll be out here on the flank (I don’t really want another “resurrection”, but hay, I’m a rolling stone) 🙂 ( I was reading a physics related article the other day about stones talking, yep, if these stones could talk, sounded like Wild Horses to me).(Which reminds me, I now have a real life stalker / Wind talker I believe, yet, they’re hiding in the bushes; a “real” resurrection it may turn out to be written)
                    🙂

          • karol 2.1.2.2.2

            Looks like attention-getting behaviour, trying to stir up readership of their blog by antagonising and slamming TS.

            • lprent 2.1.2.2.2.1

              Yep.. How many times have I seen it before. *sigh* Boring..

              I usually leave a subtle message that I think that they may be a tad juvenile… I hope I wasn’t too subtle this time 😈

          • mike 2.1.2.2.3

            lprent your ‘his post’ link goes to their ‘best wishes’ 2013 round up, no sign of your comment. The Standard gets a mention in their list of ‘courageous websites’ but:

            “The standard.org (Caveat: Lauda Finem have serious reservations about the authenticity of this blog and its agenda; one of their moderators “IrishBill” [as we suspected he would] altered one of our comments earlier today, that story coming soon)”

            omg I just can’t wait to see what happens next. Although, it’s hard to take this ‘team’ too seriously when, on the same page, their first item under ‘predictions for 2013’ is : The fall of the New Zealand National Party government in the November elections.

            Wow I just realized something mind-blowing about this whole thing:

          • QoTViper 2.1.2.2.4

            Ahahahahahaha their snide little comment about “serious reservations about the authenticity of [The Standard] and its agenda” is seriously the most priceless I-didn’t-want-to-play-with-your-ball-ANYWAY foot-stomping I’ve seen since I quit Livejournal.

            • Rogue Trooper 2.1.2.2.4.1

              the use of “f*#Ktards” sounds familiar discourse; from the same pod?

    • higherstandard 2.2

      Congratulation to Paul Holmes for his well deserved recognition in the New Year’s honours.

      • Morrissey 2.2.1

        “higherstandard”?

        Now THAT is an inappropriate moniker, if ever there was one.

    • karol 2.3

      I saw Edwards blog a couple of days ago. As well as sweeping the racism under the carpet, i couldn’t believe anyone of left wing views would applaud the shift in the MSM, that Holmes was a major part of. instead, Edwards praises it thusly:

      Paul would become a seminal influence in New Zealand broadcasting. He would change the landscape. Though many fine broadcasters preceded him, he was our first real ‘star’. And, in that sense of the word that suggests Hollywood and glittering lights and show dancers and theme music and Emmys and Oscars and your name on the pavement of Hollywood Boulevard, he may well be the only real star that our small nation has as yet produced.

      The Hollywoodisation of our news, current events and political reportage is not something to celebrate.

      • felixviper 2.3.1

        He had some cred back in the day, but that shift you mention toward presentation over substance and celebrity over merit has been Edwards’ bread and butter these past few decades.

        • Morrissey 2.3.1.1

          Perhaps you could make amends for your ill-timed outburst of a few minutes ago, by copying and pasting this message on Edwards’s blog.

          http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2012/12/paul-holmes-starry-starry-knight/

          Thanks for your interest…

          Brian Edwards interviewed P.J. O’Rourke on Saturday 24 December 1994.
          http://collections.soundarchives.co.nz/search.do?id=352200&db=object&page=1&view=detail

          • felixviper 2.3.1.1.1

            Fuck off Morrissey. Take your spam campaign elsewhere.

            • Morrissey 2.3.1.1.1.1

              Despite interviewing him, or more precisely, listening to him deliver an unbroken stream of right wing bromides for half an hour on Christmas Eve 1994, Edwards claims to knew “know nothing about him”. He will have completely forgotten it, of course, but I have not.

              It is not my credibility that has been found wanting here, it is Brian Edwards’s. Not only can you not comprehend that, but you appear to have no idea what “spam” means either.

              • felixviper

                So what? You said you had a quote so let’s see it.

                Otherwise you don’t.

                • Morrissey

                  You’ve seen the quote, several times now. Edwards said: “That was P.J. O’Rourke. Deep down, I think he’s really a very serious person”.

                  • felixviper

                    I’ve seen you say it.

                    I haven’t seen Edwards say it.

                    Do you really not know the difference?

                    • Morrissey

                      I haven’t seen Edwards say it.

                      I did, however. That’s why I posted it up—because he said it, and I believed it was another indication (from as long ago as the mid-1990s) that his judgement can be suspect, to put it politely.

                    • felixviper

                      And the reason anyone should believe you without proof is…

            • North 2.3.1.1.1.2

              Top marks FV for “Fuck off Morrissey”.

              Frankly I’m finding Morrissey a helluva lot more palatable than you and a couple of others who increasingly sound like school prefects determined to bully into submission the mouthy junior schooler of their focus……Morrissey. Some dissmissive Beltway tones in there too methinks.

              Holmes’ knighthood is a nonesense of course which putting aside vanities serves only to contribute to the bullshit that the vainglorious wahanui of the media, including Edwards for that matter, are not merely “across” the stories which comprise current events, but integrally part of those stories and broadly part of our “one nation” fibre.

              Grudging acknowledgment that something might have been said but since you FV don’t personally know about it, ergo it’s bullshit, is so so John Key FV.

              All of that said and knighthood or not I remain just a little concerned about “Cheeky darkie…..”. Racist ? I don’t know. Probably qualifies for the ballpark however.

              • Rogue Trooper

                now, if we could just get all that info Lynn has compiled on CC front and centre on peoples laptop breakfast, dinner, train time tables

              • felixviper

                “Grudging acknowledgment that something might have been said but since you FV don’t personally know about it, ergo it’s bullshit, is so so John Key FV.”

                Why do you think Morrissey shouldn’t have to verify his quotes? Everyone else has to.

                • Morrissey

                  I verify my quotes, fool. I don’t make things up; the worst you can say is that my transcripts occasionally are not perfectly verbatim. That is of course the basis of dear old Lanthanide’s stated objections to my transcripts—they’re not one hundred per cent accurate. For instance, when transcribing the Hon. Hekia Parata absolutely accurately, more than half of the transcript would consist of “ummmm, ahhhhh, errrrrr”. That might be fine in Lanthanideland, but for the mass of Standard readers, it would be intolerable. (Almost as intolerable as the fact that Parata has not resigned yet.) But that is what happens when you write things down as fast as you can, but don’t use a tape recorder.

                  Edwards made the mistake of claiming that he had no knowledge of O’Rourke, and could remember nothing. I was correct, Edwards was wrong, as proven by our friend Te Reo Putake. Edwards apologized, but I don’t expect you to show any similar integrity or humility and do the same.

                  • felixviper

                    “I verify my quotes”

                    And yet when asked to do so, you refuse or are unable to. I can verify this statement by linking to examples of you doing this if you like. See the difference?

                    I haven’t passed comment on Edwards’ memory. It doesn’t interest me that you know there was an interview in 1994 and Edwards forgot about it.

                    What I’ve commented on is that you have a terrible habit of stating things as if they’re verifiable facts when you can’t verify them, and also that you seem to be too dense to grasp this simple criticism.

                    • Morrissey

                      Edwards actually did make the comment that P.J. O’Rourke, who was and is one of the most callous and flippant commentators in the United States, was “deep down, a very serious person.” Or maybe he said, “basically, a very serious person.” The precise wording escapes me now, but the meaning was quite clear, and it was yet another example of Edwards’ dodgy (to put it kindly) powers of judgement. I did not make it up. Someone some time no doubt will produce a recording of the interview, and will verify what I have already said.

                      …you have a terrible habit of stating things as if they’re verifiable facts when you can’t verify them…

                      Nonsense. When have I ever done that? The worst thing you can say about me is that my transcripts (done as they are, usually, hastily on a piece of paper while I’m doing other things as well) are not absolutely verbatim.

                      I don’t make things up, but in your increasingly fraught state of mind, you probably are incapable of acknowledging that fact right now.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Compare and contrast:

                      “…you have a terrible habit of stating things as if they’re verifiable facts when you can’t verify them…

                      Nonsense. When have I ever done that? ”

                      “The precise wording escapes me now …”

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    “I verify my quotes”

                    Well, no, no you don’t. In the Edwards case, it was me who did your work for you (and thank you for acknowleging that). We still have no evidence that Edwards said what you claim, but he has confirmed that he interviewed O’Rourke. The only way you can verify your quote would be to access the interview, which can be done via the RNZ site. But I’m betting you won’t do that!

                    You’ve outlined your transcript process and it’s hopeless, Moz. Your transcripts were useless because you made a lot of them up, relying on memory and impression. Clearly, you still do not understand that for a report to be a transcript, it has to be accurate. It is OK to edit out ums and arghs, but not to atrribute things that were not actually said, but were just your recollection.

                    The “mass of Standard readers” you claim to speak for are intelligent, learned folk who know the difference between opinion and fact. You don’t do them any favours by being so wrong, so often.

                    • Morrissey

                      Well, no, no you don’t. In the Edwards case, it was me who did your work for you (and thank you for acknowleging that). We still have no evidence that Edwards said what you claim, but he has confirmed that he interviewed O’Rourke. The only way you can verify your quote would be to access the interview, which can be done via the RNZ site. But I’m betting you won’t do that!

                      Somebody will, no doubt. I did not make it up, and you know I didn’t.

                      You’ve outlined your transcript process and it’s hopeless, Moz. Your transcripts were useless because you made a lot of them up, relying on memory and impression.

                      Rubbish. Often, following my posting up of a transcript of a radio show, others have posted to congratulate me on capturing the zeitgeist of shows like Jim Mora’s increasingly dire “The Panel”. That’s because I capture the crucial words that are spoken. And a lot of my stuff is actually verbatim, and can be checked against the original—for example, the transcript of that obscene Letterman/Baron Cohen defamation of a Christian peace activist in occupied Hebron. (Except for the seguing into a Nazi rally in the last sentence, but intelligent readers appreciated the political point being made.)

                      Clearly, you still do not understand that for a report to be a transcript, it has to be accurate. It is OK to edit out ums and arghs, but not to atrribute things that were not actually said, but were just your recollection.

                      And in many cases, as in transcribing Leighton “Ummmm, ahhhh, errrr” Smith, Larry “Lackwit” Williams or the Honorable Hekia “Ummm, errrr, ahhh” Parata, it’s not “OK to edit out ums and arghs”; they are crucial indicators of those great minds in their full pomp and majesty.

                      The “mass of Standard readers” you claim to speak for are intelligent, learned folk who know the difference between opinion and fact. You don’t do them any favours by being so wrong, so often.

                      I’m not wrong, and you know it. All you have done is nit-pick about my methodology and tried to show that I’m a falsifier. That’s arrant nonsense, of course, and regular readers of the Standard know it. And so, of course, do you.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      The zeitgeist is not a transcript. You do not post transcripts, you post impressions. You have not provided any evidence that backs up your claim about Edwards, so nobody knows whether it is accurate or not, but the verifiable fact that you don’t even know yourself whether you’ve quoted him accurately kinda suggests you haven’t got it right.

                      Sorry, Moz, but if you are going to continue to make shit up, you will be called on it. That’s life, cobber.

                    • Morrissey

                      The zeitgeist is not a transcript. You do not post transcripts, you post impressions.

                      No, I post transcripts, which are, as many people have attested, pretty accurate. You are correct in that sometimes they are not verbatim, and therefore they are indeed impressions; that is my aim, as you no doubt are aware: to evoke and thereby criticize the glibness, the muddleheadedness, the cynicism of what we are bombarded with daily in the media.

                      You have not provided any evidence that backs up your claim about Edwards, so nobody knows whether it is accurate or not, but the verifiable fact that you don’t even know yourself whether you’ve quoted him accurately kinda suggests you haven’t got it right.

                      I’ve got it right. As I have acknowledged, the precise wording needs to be confirmed, but the comment, in all of its vacuity, was made by the good doctor.

                      Sorry, Moz, but if you are going to continue to make shit up, you will be called on it. That’s life, cobber.

                      If I “make shit up”, then it’s for the purposes of satire or comedy. I did not make this up.

                      By the way, here, for your delectation, is an example of when I DID “make shit up”, building on the true story of Bernadine Oliver-Kerby taking a pair of scissors to the crotches of every pair of trousers in Justin Marshall’s wardrobe. It comes from the glory days of Google Groups, when everyone seemed to be on Usenet.

                      It’s called BERNADINE, or “Hell Hath No Fury”.

                      Enjoy….
                      http://groups.google.com/group/nz.general/browse_thread/thread/12b9f5fd0ac5230f/69b8343e4c26ad03%3Fq%3D%2522Adam%2BAnother%2522%2369b8343e4c26ad03&ei=iGwTS6eaOpW8Qpmqic0O&sa=t&ct=res&cd=71&source=groups&usg=AFQjCNEEF8TNL9ainY6clBjmJrbJOxiYsw

                    • felixviper

                      When have you ever made shit up? I can think of plenty of times. For instance, just the other day in the bus stop you said you had gills and could breathe underwater.

                      I expect this will be completely lost on you Morrissey, but go ahead and ask me to prove it and I’ll do exactly what you do.

      • Morrissey 2.3.2

        Karol, would you please go to Edward’s blog now,

        http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2012/12/paul-holmes-starry-starry-knight/

        and copy and post up this message for me. I tried to but I have been blocked…

        Brian Edwards interviewed P.J. O’Rourke on Saturday 24 December 1994.
        http://collections.soundarchives.co.nz/search.do?id=352200&db=object&page=1&view=detail

        • David H 2.3.2.1

          My turn to piss off Edwards.

          My post I wonder how long it will last.

          “Do you think that the farcical Knighthood of Hyde, is equal to the farcical Knighthood of Holmes. or maybe the farcical QC’s that the Nats are pulling because in my eyes they are all equally hideous. And so far out of date.

          Oh and BE FYI You Interviewed PJ O’Rourke on Saturday 24 December 1994.
          http://collections.soundarchives.co.nz/search.do?id=352200&db=object&page=1&view=detail

          Wouldn’t want you to get John Key Disease and forget and all that!”

          • felixviper 2.3.2.1.1

            Do you guys post a comment on every blog about every comment you post on any blog?

            It’s like you think you’re a story. Bit weird. Quite hubristic. Little embarrassing to read.

          • Morrissey 2.3.2.1.2

            Thanks for your support, David.

    • bill-viper-browne 2.4

      At one fell swoop the knighting of someone who is famous for getting a job on the telly and the radio and voicing his opinions has:

      A) Shown what a farce and irrelevance the honours system is
      B) Shown what an out of touch chardonnay socialist BE has become.

      From now on, those who accept this dubious honour will now be twice smitten by my contempt; once for being a sycophantic royalist and once for wanting to be in the same club as PH is a member of.

      • Morrissey 2.4.1

        Next year, look for something possibly even less palatable than the knighting of Paul Holmes.

        Yes, you guessed it: next year Sir Jerry Mateparae, if he has not been indicted for war crimes, will be waving a sword over the bald head of a nationally loathed sports opinion merchant and mouthing the horrific words: “Arise, Sir Murray.”

        Remember, you read it here first.

      • mike e vipe e 2.4.2

        A former failed national party candidate who under mined fair and balanced journalism just an attention seeking narcissist

      • red rattler 2.4.3

        BVP – Socialite don’t you mean?

    • Saarbo 2.5

      Im with you Morrisey, Holmes is a racist! The only people who may not understand this probably fit into his demographic.

      • Morrissey 2.5.1

        Im with you Morrisey, Holmes is a racist! The only people who may not understand this probably fit into his demographic.

        I don’t think most of his defenders would actually be so vile as to launch into an extended tirade about “darkies” or rage against Māori—even in private, let alone on radio or television or in print, as Holmes did as recently as eleven months ago.

        What they are doing is pretending that the racist drivel is outweighed by the very public shows of charity he has performed. It’s pretty much the same rationale as employed by the defenders of Sir Jimmy Savile.

    • millsy 2.6

      I dont know why I comment on BE’s blog at all really, the guy keeps deleting me.

      Though given that he thinks it is perfectly OK for a teacher to tell a 14 year old girl that she looks like a slut, I should have known that he would think the sun shines out of PH’s ass.

      (Yes, I am back. The things that I thought were going to happen didnt happen the way I expected to happen, and I am not too sure what directions things will take, and it turns out that I have a bit of time to post on “The Standard” — though for how long remains to be seen)

      • Rogue Trooper 2.6.1

        Excellent millsy (I missed the back-story due to passing penury) yet I enjoy your informed commentary.

      • Colonial Viper 2.6.2

        Welcome back compadre, always good seeing you hitting it hard 😈

    • Murray Olsen 2.7

      As a grumpy old man myself, I have no problem recognising that Holmes acts and speaks like a racist. Unless this is all an act to increase his audience share (highly doubtful), I am forced to conclude that he is a deeply disturbed old racist who longs for the time when “darkies” knew their place and never got knighted. People I know who have physically made his acquaintance tell me he is even worse than his television and radio personas.

      • Morrissey 2.7.1

        If he has the gall to write the kind of thing he did in the Herald last Waitangi weekend, one can have a reasonable guess what he says in private.

    • David H 2.8

      This may or may not have anything to do with your message above Morrissey bit I was intrigued enough to try to find said interview, without any luck so far, However I did find this little gem to read

      Indeed National would welcome David Shearer into the Labour Caucus. It will largely nullify the privatisation issue for National. If Shearer is confirmed as the candidate (which is highly likely as Head Office control 3/7 votes) I will not be surprised if some National Party members vote for him tactically – knowing the huge boost it will be to have in the Labour Caucus one of the world’s leading proponents (his articles have been cited in scores of other research in this area) of legitimising private sector involvement in military operations.

      http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/05/p_j_orourke_and_give_war_a_chance.html

      Brian Edwards must be getting John Key disease, its the memory that goes first.

    • aerobubble 2.9

      When I first saw Paul Holmes on the box, I was reminded of a rather over weight Australian interviewer (I think on Channel Seven) who was suppose to interview politicians and their ilk
      but never dared asked a hard question. Like many of his generation history will ignore them
      since they had the misfortune of coming of age in a very easy boring uninteresting time.

  3. KhandallaViper 3

    How will Labour win in 2014?

    What does Labour need to do differently in 2013 to win a Labour Victory on Labour Policies?
    It may be a Government supported by the Greens, but it must be a Labour Government that can implement key Labour Policies.
    We must have the mandate and power to achieve strong export based, innovation led high wage economic prosperity.
    We have to re-engage with the 800,000 who don’t believe political parties are even relevant.
    Our new Constitution has given us an opportunity to invigorate our members and supporters. The forthcoming leadership debate roadshow can be a lightening rod to release the mojo of the Real Labour Party.
    We need a leadership style that can harness this opportunity for the organisation with passion.
    We need a leadership style that can capture the imagination of the population.
    We need a leadership style that will convince the majority of Kiwi’s that a fundamental shift away from the conventional wisdom of the past three decades will work.

  4. Herodotus 4

    Over the holiday season have had a few interesting chats with mates that cover a wide plethora of our society. One topic was the lack of movement over the years on pay. One mate from air nz over the last 8 years was awarded CPI adjustments at good years, and nothing in other years. Another 2 both worth $10m’s even commented on that the employment contracts and the demise of the unions in retrospect has been a bad thing for nz.
    The other point was on our poor senior level managers that with their huge salaries should be better than to improve a coys performance they should be looking at the reduction of wages as a last resort not the only option.

    Time to take back what’s ours


    Also when talking about the lack of movement of wages there was also a disconcerting comment passed by more than a few in that we were lucky to have a job. This fear of being unemployed is so great to warrant the acceptance of this continuation of nil to low increases, and in a few cases of deterioration of pay rates being asked to do more for the same pay ( which IMO is a pay cut)

    • tc 4.1

      Yes the well rounded wealthy folk know that gutting the working classes standard of living risks collapsing the system that benefits everyone. You can’t make money when no one skilled works in your business, pays your rents etc.

      However the country isn’t run by the well rounded, it’s run by the greedy and vindictive ruling 1%’ers determined to plunder everything they can get their hands on with little care for future generations.

      Oz is benefitting from this approach taking on skilled and hard working kiwis, it’s Muldoon all over again with a better sales pitch and a compliant MSM.

  5. And in the US there are celebrations at the record number of women elected to the US congress, 100 out of 535 or 18.9%.

    You can’t help but wonder how much more intelligent and civilised that body would be if the percentage was higher …

    http://reut.rs/WnXzCy

    • The Al1en 5.1

      Sarah Palin agrees

      • mickysavage 5.1.1

        A notable exception Alien. apart from her gender Palin has nothing in common with ordinary women …

        • The Al1en 5.1.1.1

          Bit like Countess Thatchula then 😉

          • Rogue Trooper 5.1.1.1.1

            imo, Jack White is the new Clapton; post-modern god with a small “g”

            -when i first heard the news of this dreadful quad and alcohol tragedy i could not believe my ears until hearing the story a few times more from other sources (if we worried about other people thought we’d never do things differently).

            Closer Still, some body handy has me pegged, deedle leedle leedle lee, sunlight wish-washing liquid (with a drop of natural Lemon Song), Unknown Pleasures to come, free puncture repairs for life;

            Strange Brew 8:10-This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord,

            9-(it will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers)

            I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts.

            11-No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying “Know the Lord, because they will all know me from the least of them to the greatest.

            Soooo, movin’ along,

            cursum perficio.
            verbum sapienti:
            quo plus habent,
            Post nubilia, Phoebus
            Iternum- Na Leatha Geal M’oige, evening falls

            -Watermark (On Your Shore) 🙂

          • The Pink Postman 5.1.1.1.2

            Please T.Allan do not mention that ghastly woman’s name in my presence.!!

      • David H 5.1.2

        Shudder. Just Imagine that Airhead in charge of the US Military. Wouldn’t she ‘just lurve’ all that power. Kinda makes you glad that she was repulsive to the voters too, with the notable exception of the Airhead T Party.

  6. marsman 6

    NZ Police Force a law unto themselves? In Pundit David Beatson talks about Drones:-

    “New Zealand Police aren’t waiting for major aviation safety and personal privacy issues about domestic spy drones to be solved. TV3 reports they’ve already purchased their first unmanned aerial vehicle. So, watch this space …”

    http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/look-out-the-drones-are-here-%E2%80%93-and-we%E2%80%99re-not-ready-%E2%80%A6

    • karol 6.1

      Yes, I saw that. He’s an old conservative, but Beatson also does solid journalistic investigations and asks some important questions.

      • tc 6.1.1

        Beatson was the only journo to blow apart the tax cut/GST rise move by exposing English as having done no analysis whatsoever on the impact.

        English had no answers, beatson showed what a bunch of leemings the MSM are with zero ability or willingness to challenge these clowns.

        He probably thought to himself that back in his prime at least they tried to do their jobs.

    • muzza 6.2

      Why would the police wait, heck the power companies have not bothered to see if the installation of smart meters, complete with communications aerial for sending detailed useage information every 30 minutes. on private property is breaking surveillance/wiretapping laws!

  7. karol 7

    Over the last 24 hours on Twitter, Dotcom has been highlighting reports of the US agencies planting evidence in order to get a warrant to search his property. He refers to reports here,

    Details released from US courts in November showed the FBI relied on the existence of 36 illegally copied movies as evidence of willful law-breaking. The FBI told the US courts Megaupload had been told of the illegal files in 2010 and the continued existence was evidence to flagrant criminality.

    However, Dotcom’s lawyers said the files were kept at the request of the US government which asked it do nothing to impact on its criminal investigation. They claimed FBI testimony to secure arrest warrants managed to “exclude critical facts” which would have shown the company’s efforts to assist. Instead, they gave a “selective distorted account” and “deliberately misled the court”.

    The filing says Megaupload was painted by the FBI as a “brazen scofflaw” and the files were the only linking thread which tied together those described by the FBI as the “Mega Conspiracy”.

    here, here, and here.

    • Treetop 7.1

      Will the judiciary in the US act swiftly or procrastinate?

    • Huginn 7.2

      Very interesting and very unhealthy.
      It suggests that there may be a demarcation issue between Homeland Security and the FBI as both target copyright infringement, presumably for the lucrative asset seizures.

      Here’s no transparency because the definition of copyright infringement as a threat to US national security means that these agencies can operate in secret.

      It really makes me wonder whether there were any other agencies involved, eg the US NSA which is closeted in with the GCSB in Wellington.

    • millsy 8.1

      Still two years till the next election in Vic, and compared with Labour in NZ, the ALP tends to be pretty right wing.

  8. Rogue Trooper 9

    sadly, hearing whispers from both ends of the SE spectrum, one a “councilor” and the other a retired, former longstanding businessman and entrepreneur, that our bay is becoming “buggered” economically, yet, i think it is a great place to live, invest and raise a family; That’s the Gods-Honest Truth, what more could one ask for, sheltered meditative climate and a view to the future? I imagine a “Golden Bay” of the NE. 🙂

    • odysseus 9.1

      RT, whatever you are on, don’t bring any to me ok 🙂 !

      • Rogue Trooper 9.1.1

        sweetas, it’s only a personal odyssey (and i apologise for any offence implied to anybody, i have to live alongside the moon phases and i get a bit carried away by the Dark side sometimes, yet really i grow in the light, and i do have an ethic of care when and where i can)

        -Bob

  9. Morrissey 10

    VINDICATION!

    The famous and esteemed broadcaster and commentator Brian Edwards is man enough to apologize when caught out. An object lesson to some people around here, methinks….

    http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2012/12/paul-holmes-starry-starry-knight/#comment-23897

    • Te Reo Putake 10.1

      An object lesson to you, I would have thought, Moz, given you’ve got plenty to apologise for. But, yes, nice touch from Edwards. Lord knows I’d show a lot less grace if I was dealing with idiots quoting quips I made twenty years ago.

      • Morrissey 10.1.1

        Lord knows I’d show a lot less grace if I was dealing with idiots quoting quips I made twenty years ago.

        It was actually just over EIGHTEEN years ago.

        Accuracy, my friend, accuracy.

        And… DID YOU JUST CALL ME AN “IDIOT“?!!?!?!?!?!?

        • felixviper 10.1.1.1

          A call for accuracy from the guy who thinks ‘but I heard it’ is verification for a quote.

          Idiot is far too kind.

          • Morrissey 10.1.1.1.1

            Felix, you’re unwisely displaying bitterness in public. That only makes you look bad.

            Perhaps you should read over what you’ve written two or three times, and then say to yourself: Do I really want everyone to see THIS? Does it make me look witty, or does it make me look FOOLISH?

            Stay cool, my friend, stay cool. It will make your contributions far more readable, and make you seem more intelligent.

            • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 10.1.1.1.1.1

              You’re so superior when questioned Morrissey and manage to be particularly annoying with your’ my friend’ terms. Can you ever take note of what is said without a large reply – your disagreements swamp the thread?

              • Morrissey

                So I engage with my adversaries, and try to keep it civil.

                Is that…wrong?

                • felixviper

                  Ha. You think you have “adversaries”, you think you “engage”, and you think the bile you type is “civil”.

                  Apart from that, nah, you’re not wrong.

                  • Morrissey

                    Take my advice, my man, and think before you send your thoughts out into the stratosphere.

                    Losing one’s head so abjectly is never an edifying spectacle.

                    What you need is the Good Writer’s Five-Step Procedure….

                    1.) Type.
                    2.) Read.
                    3.) Re-read.
                    4.) Think for a minute: is this any good or is it simply bitter spleen-venting which will make me look like a pillock?
                    5.) Then, if your masterpiece is up to standard, press “Submit Comment”.

                    Follow the Five Steps, my friend. It will save you a lot of mortification.

                    • NoseViper (The Nose knows)

                      Morrissey
                      Big quaffs of superiority juice as I said before. Try cool water with some lime juice, hydrating cools the body and mind and gives you something to do that’s useful for you and for us.

                    • felixviper

                      Good lord.

            • felixviper 10.1.1.1.1.2

              Lolz Morrissey, I don’t think I’ll be taking advice on how to appear smarter from someone who doesn’t know what a transcript is, doesn’t know what a quote is, and doesn’t know what verified means.

              Don’t really think I need advice on staying cool from someone with your propensity for ALLCAPS either, thanks all the same.

  10. Morrissey 11

    How to be an Establishment Hero in the United States
    BE A SNIVELING RAT

    Look at the moronic adoration on the face of the grunt accompanying the snitch….

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/03/bradley-manning-wikileaks-suspect-adrian-lamo

    • David H 11.1

      The things passing through his mind should not be printed so clearly on his face. “I love you, and want to have your babies”. Yay more insanity from the land of the Paranoid and Insane.

    • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 11.2

      Adrian Lamo
      Lame Brain
      See Morrissey link to guardiancouk

  11. Rogue Trooper 13

    well the preacher rides a mount, But nothing really matters, it’s doom alone that counts
    And the one-eyed undertaker, he blows a futile horn…

    HBT
    “We’re just the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff”-David Montgomery, Whanganui paediatrician
    says ‘poverty and lack of support are two factors that must be dealt with if NZ is to successfully arrest the problem of Child Abuse’.

    Pope Benedict XVI has condemned “unregulated capitalism” for contributing to world tension and hotbeds of conflict caused by growing inequality between rich and poor.

    Alcohol related illness and injury contribute to a record number of ED attendances during holiday period-Family Violence-traffic accidents-assaults (three fingers of jack on ice)

    Boehner reported as saying to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid “go f$#K yourself” while Billions of $ Aid for Sandy Shelved by Congress (charming)

    -Mighty Mouse ( http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10420795-metamaus )

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