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Open mike 04/07/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 4th, 2016 - 72 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

72 comments on “Open mike 04/07/2016 ”

  1. Draco T Bastard 1

    This sounds remarkably like the National Party.

  2. Jenny 2

    C’mon let’s just find somewhere to have a nice to swim and relax to take our minds off it.

  3. b waghorn 3

    key has just confirmed that he would give Winston the deputy pm job if that’s what it took to get back in at the next election.!!!
    Its the only time I’ve seen key answer a straight yes to a question.

    Labour needs to come out and rule Winston out and go full on with the greens, sit on the fence on this labour and you will get an Arse! Full of slinters.

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      Labour won’t rule it out because Winston holds the balance of power. Key has just given the go ahead for a lot of potential National supporters to vote NZ First.

    • Bearded Git 3.2

      Why on earth would Labour rule Peters out when he will never go with Key? Key is showing his desperation offering Peters baubles this early in the piece.

      He knows that 30+13+9=52=more time on the beach in Hawaii.

      • Colonial Viper 3.2.1

        Key will have cleared this statement through his most influential members of Cabinet. This is not “desperation.” This is pre-election year positioning.

        In making this statement Key has beaten Little and the Greens to the punch and ensured that they cannot say the same.

        • McFlock

          If it were a specific prepared announcement, I’d agree.
          If it was something off the cuff in the lobby – don’t be so sure.

        • Bearded Git

          @CV Why can’t they say the same?

          • Colonial Viper

            Key has made a clear offer, through public channels to Winston. LAB/GR can’t make the same offer, weeks or months later, without bettering it, or risk looking like they were the last cab off the rank.

            • te reo putake

              Meh. They can offer him exactly the same or more likely, offer him something better. The Nat’s are assuming he wants the deputy Prime Ministership. I reckon he has other plans, more to do with succession.

              PS, given that National already made him deputy PM once, doesn’t that make National, by your logic, “the last cab off the rank”?

              • Colonial Viper

                Meh. They can offer him exactly the same or more likely, offer him something better.

                Will interesting to see what LAB/GR come up with, in that case.

              • North

                TRP !!! – ” PS, given that National already made him deputy PM once, doesn’t that make National, by your logic, “the last cab off the rank”? ”

                Belly laugh !

                But who knows re Winnie ? I would accord him taonga were he to despatch these charlatans. I reckon the wily prick’s got it in ‘im. On the right day. He’s an operator is Winnie. And we’re the better for him. Ackshully……Eckshully…….Errh……..

      • weka 3.2.2

        It’s entirely possible that Peters would choose National over L/G, esp if he’s being offered the right baubles.

        What is absolutely certain is that Peters won’t say before the election what the potential coalition partners are. The left believes it can’t be National at its peril. So do any leftish NZF voters.

    • ianmac 3.3

      The writing/polling must be telling Key that it is time to panic b waghorn. After all that nasty stuff against Winston in the past, a Uturn like that is huge.

    • Puckish Rogue 3.4

      It comes down to numbers so what is more likely,

      Labour/Greens and the rest they manage to drag with them getting to 51% of the votes or

      National and Winston getting to 51% of the vote and still having Peter Dunne, Act or even the Maori Party in reserve if needed

      If Labour/Green ruled out Winston then you can kiss any change of a Labour/Green government good bye

      • b waghorn 3.4.1

        If nat voters think Winston can get the numbers its buy buy dunne and Seymour , the Maori party will come home to labour if they survive.
        A vote for nat/nzf is a vote for fuck the climate us oldies are grabbing all the goodies.
        Winston will go with national because he will always go with the biggest party first, labour needs to get some guts.

        • Puckish Rogue

          I think its more likely Winston will go with National however I don’t think its 100% certain

          We know Winston wants the baubles of office, it comes down to who can offer him the bauble he truly wants

          However by cutting Winston out completely you’re asking Labour/Green to come up with nearly 50% of the vote between and then maybe Peter Dunne, maybe the Maori Party or Hone to make the rest

          Currently Lab/Green are on 42.5% of the vote, do you think the rest can make up the 7.5% needed that easily and if so where would that vote come from?

          Whereas (same Roy Morgan poll) National and Winston make 52% without Act, Dunne or the Maori Party so I’d suggest Labour/Green shouldn’t write off Winston at all

          • Draco T Bastard

            We know Winston wants the baubles of office…

            I think everyone misrepresents Winston when they say that. Winston is Old School Conservative and is in parliament to bring about what he thinks is best for the country. He won’t turn the baubles down but he’s not there for them.

            • Puckish Rogue

              Have your cake and eat it too I suppose, arise Sir Winston…

            • North

              “He won’t turn the baubles down……but he’s not there for them.”
              Thank Christ someone’s got it right!
              Not persisting with this fucking rubbish that Winston’s some sort of shallow fucking bauble magnet.
              They ALL get about in flash cars etc etc etc. None of them turns down the baubles.
              And none of them gets about meaningfully like Winnie does.
              Much better bang for the taxpayer buck with Winnie! Thank goodness for Winnie in these crazy times!

          • b waghorn

            While a Labour government with Winston would be far superior to a nat Winston government , the time is not only right for a new style of government its needed.
            Hardly a day goes by without a story about climate change or the growing wealth divide .
            If lab/green gets to 45% by years end its all on .

    • Onesie 3.5

      “Winning ugly is better than losing tidy” JK.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.6

      key has just confirmed that he would give Winston the deputy pm job if that’s what it took to get back in at the next election.!!!

      National seem to have this idea that you can simply buy people and it will be alright. We see it with in the corruption in SheepGate and the offer of more tax cuts.

      But I don’t think that will work here. NZFirst’s and National’s policies are pretty much diametrically opposed and have been since the 1990s. And that is what it’s really going to come down to.

  4. Paul 4

    Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
    We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

    It was 3 degrees in Auckland last night.

    Not very warm to be sleeping in a car.
    Not very warm to be sleeping in a container.
    Not very warm to be sleeping in a garage.
    Not very warm to be sleeping on the street.

    The mainstream media may think that A Polish TV presenter is a news items, but is not.
    The majority of the media are doing everything they can to support Paula Bennett and move homelessness off the headlines.

    “Try walking in my shoes, it’s not actually that easy.”
    This was the challenge TA set to Prime Minister John Key. But really it’s a challenge for us all.

  5. RedLogix 6

    How does this ageist crap get published? And how hard would it be to write 1000 words arguing why no-one under the age of 30 and who does not own property should be allowed to vote? Maybe it wasn’t such a smart idea to give women the vote either? FFS.


    A noxious little click-bait turd.

    • The Fairy Godmother 6.1

      Lets screen for psychopathy. Only people with a sense of community and concern for others allowed to vote. Now that could lead to some good decisions

      • Pat 6.1.1

        “The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
        To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
        To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
        ― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

      • Mrs Brillo 6.1.2

        (Unfortunately the psychopaths would then arm themselves and start firing.)

    • mauī 6.2

      Yep, a confronting article by a comedian, now let’s blame women..

    • andrew murray 6.3

      This issue goes to the essence of democracy.
      Despite what you suggest RL it should at least raise our awareness of the importance of choosing when, how and if we should exercise a vote on issues that are not of great importance to us but can be of very great importance to another group.
      I am not arguing that this is a great example, say in the way the treaty is to Maori or state housing is to homeless people… but it should stir in us a reminder that a true understanding of democracy is considerably more nuanced than mere majority tyranny.

    • Puckish Rogue 6.4

      I’m assuming its satire

    • TC 6.5

      Matt heath is neither funny nor intelligent and gets paid to fill up granny with what he considers edgy satirical musings.

      Another low level radio jock, move along folks.

      • Rodel 6.5.1

        TC..it’s not radio jock..or shock jock..it’s shock dick. Same as Mike , Paddy and Paul. (Barman says..’ Is this a joke?’) Yeah..OK. let’s move on.

    • weka 6.6

      Couldn’t get past the first few sentences (thankfully).

      “Unsurprisingly the Brexit vote was carried by older people. Only 19 per cent of those 18-24 wanted to leave.”

      Not a very bright writer then. How many in the 18 – 24 bracket didn’t vote at all? Of those that did, how many are in the socio-economic bracket that do well out of globalisation? Or more to the point, of those that didn’t vote, how many have been locked out of the gains of neoliberalism? How does that skew the youth stats, and how does that affect the argument that it was the oldies that allegedly sold out the UK?

    • I thought he made some valid points amongst the mirth.

    • Rosie 6.8

      You guys. Don’t read anything in the herald and take it seriously. I don’t know how but Matt Heath has appeared to end up as a columnist at this rag.

      You know, Matt Heath of Deja voodoo fame? “I’m on P and I’m alright”

      and “Beers”

      and Back of the Y fame:


      (Vaseline warriors. Just don’t go there)

      Matt Heath and Chris Stapp were a bit edgy back in the day, and had some agreeable anti authoritarian things to say but it’s strange how life has marked a trajectory course for this guy from coarse comedic gigs into shitty radio Hauraki and then into newspaper columnist.

      Don’t waste your cells on this stuff.

  6. Morrissey 7

    “Elie Wiesel: Break Your Silence and Come with Us to Gaza!”

    When Elie Wiesel spoke at Saint Louis University on December 1, 2009, three women challenged him to break his silence about Gaza and to travel with them on the Gaza Freedom March to see for himself the devastation caused by Israel’s Operation Cast Lead in December 2008 and the ongoing siege.

    The old hypocrite has just died, without ever going to Gaza.

  7. Morrissey 8

    Mideast Quartet reports through the ages

    The latest Mideast Quartet report blames the German government for its disproportionate use of force in the Warsaw Ghetto, but also severely criticizes the Jewish victims for inciting the violence.

    The Mideast Quartet has condemned the Ku Klux Klan for its disproportionate use of lynching in the states of Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina and Tennessee, but has also severely criticized the incitement by Negroes.

    The Mideast Quartet has condemned the South African government for disproportionately killing hundreds of protestors in Soweto, but it has also severely criticized the incitement by the victims.

    The Mideast Quartet has condemned the U.S.-backed El Salvador regime for its disproportionate killing of Archbishop Romero and four American nuns, but it has also severely criticized the Archbishop and the nuns for inciting the violence in the first place, with all that provocative peacefulness and prayer and social work.

    The Mideast Quartet has condemned the Chinese government for its disproportionate killing of several thousand protestors in Tiananmen Square, but it has also severely criticized the victims for inciting the authorities.

    ad nauseam….


  8. adam 9

    Prostitution. Why has the left been so bloody awful on this issue? I have to admit my views have changed over time, I applauded the law change in New Zealand. BUT – No longer!

    A industry after some 13 years, has only got worse. The gangs and violent individuals still control the trade. These individual have now be legitimised. How many Thai and Filipino women are here as sex slaves? My sources say somewhere between 500 to 2,000. Slaves. You get that? Slaves in a so called free democracy. The commodification of women hurts us all. It is vial to women, and damages us all at a base sociological level.

    But worst of all, brown and women of colour get it in the neck. Transgenders are getting it in the neck. This industry is an abominations and a blight. The users of prostitutes are the ones we should punish. Women are suffering because of this trade. And New Zealand is a key apologist in it’s growth and extension.


    • You bring in Third Worlders, they bring the Third World with them. Slavery is still common in some of the places we’re allowing immigration from. We can stop the immigration but we won’t stop the slavery.

      • adam 9.1.1

        Are you saying because we accept immigration, we have to accept slavery as well Psycho Milt? I’m a tad confused by your statement.

        • Psycho Milt

          I’m saying that people bring with them the things that they consider normal where they come from. I did it in the countries I’ve lived in, and others do it when they come here. Which means we should be very picky about accepting immigrants from Third World countries, because a lot of stuff is accepted in those countries that we don’t want to see here – human trafficking, for example.

      • Sabine 9.1.2

        it happens world wide, not just the third world.
        in fact it happens in OZ as much as in Germany or the US.


    • Sabine 9.2

      Prostitution and Slavery are not the same thing.

      A women or a man who chooses to sell sexual services to like minded men and women is a prostitute.

      A women or a man who is trafficked, pressed into forced labour or sex work is a slave.

      Once we establish this, we can focus on human trafficking and slave labour and we can talk about those that buy slaves.

      The current Transphobia in the States and elsewhere (it has replaced the Homophobia a bit) is what is killing Transmen and women, not the sex trade they work in – with consensual partners/customers.

      As for the sex workers that are trafficked in to NZ and OZ, they are equally often from Russia, the Eastern Block and are blond and on a tourist visa. They call it a working holiday. The chinees/thai you won’t see much as they often work from brothels and would equally be on a holiday / work visa. But again, you also have many on student visas that choose the trade freely to make extra cash. In fact, there are a few NZ Women who work the trade to not get in to a student loan. You also have a few single mothers working from home so as to suplement winz or replace it. The sex trade is complex, and it is not Prostitution at fault when what angers you is human trafficking. Humans are trafficked world wide and they are equally abused for sexual services as their physical labour. But i agree we should go after the buyers more then the victims.

  9. amirite 10

    Labour and Greens should avoid being dragged into an anti-immigration debate trap. National is busting to paint them as racists as soon as they mention anything about immigrant numbers or suggest any tinkering with immigration.

    This article is an indicative of National’s dirty little plan:

    • North 10.1

      Yeah, the National Party the biggest mongrel racists in the world……including that waspish-tongued foppish boy Finlayson. The Left has to be very very careful. Those racist-in-their-guts-bastards are just aching to set up people from the other side as racists. To disguise their own racism.

      It’s disgraceful but they’re into it. We must be very careful……hopefully a figure will emerge……a sports star, whoever. Who will say what I believe most people of colour of any age know……you’re real lucky if you’re not discriminated against in this country.

  10. Poission 11

    Hunt for the wilderpeople takes 50% more per theatre in the US then Independence day on independence weekend.


  11. joe90 12

    A rather long read from David Brin on wholesale theft, corruption, and the seemingly never ending global financial crisis.

    Secret bankers be warned: “Panama Papers” were the first shots of a “Helvetian War.”

    Here’s a long one — a major posting about the coming war that no one seems to have on their scopes or horizons. Although this scenario was loosely described in fiction, it may take the world’s powers by surprise. And it will not need their permission. A few small nations could decide on this desperate course, tomorrow.


    == The Great Heist of National Wealth ==

    Let’s step back and deal with this the way that I am paid to do, with scenario and metaphor. Almost a decade before I wrote The Transparent Society, my novel EARTH (1989) foresaw a traumatic event occurring around the year 2025. The “Helvetian War” would start to unfold when a dozen newly-democratic but poor nations grow tired of asking politely for the return of trillions of dollars that were looted from them by former, kleptocratic leaders. The war scenario may be fictional, but the cassus belli is all-too real.

    “Global Financial Integrity recently found that developing economies lost $7.8 trillion in cash from 2004 to 2013 because of maneuvers like those allegedly perfected by Mossack. Illicit outflows are increasing at a rate of 6.5% a year, twice the rate of global GDP growth,” says Time Magazine journalist Rana Foroohar, adding that this drain might prove a contributing factor to the slowing economies of many developing countries, which could set off a global recession.

    The problem is global. Ukraine is seeking ways to recover vast amounts that senior officials stole during former President Viktor Yanukovych’s four years in office. “Even taking a conservative estimate of the scale of fraud for just VAT and public procurement, one ends up with a figure of $30 billion.”


  12. adam 13

    Sometimes Chris Trotter Hits the nail right on the head.

    Today was one of those days.


  13. Morrissey 14

    Good to see him writing something sensible for a change. It’s not that long ago that he was joining in the gang-banging of a U.K. government-designated target…..

    Open mike 15/06/2013

    And few who heard it could ever forget, or forgive, his windy admonition of all those lily-livered liberals who dared to question the integrity of a lynch-mob in the Deep South….

    Open mike 19/07/2013

    • In Vino 14.1

      In the immortal words of George Dubya, I think Chris is often misunderestimated by passionate Lefties. Chris is dispassionate, and has better historical knowledge than most of us others. When he tells us things we don’t like hearing and backs it with material we don’t know about, some of us get all grumbledy and spongy pud.

      You are wrong in recognising this as ‘something sensible for a change’. He is usually sensible- it is not a change- but passionate lefties get upset and revile him.

      In my old age, I have come to distrust people who say they are passionate – they use it as an excuse to break the rules, and ride over others.

      When we have learned as much history as Chris knows and understands, we may have the right to slag him off.

      Learning a lot of history is not easy. Learning from that history and suggesting better courses is a rare gift.

      Lay off the criticism and try to learn. This is not the only good thing Chris has recently written.

      Sorry to sound snobby, but Chris is in my opinion one of the very few literate and knowledgeable people that the NZ Left has.

      The good news is that the NZ Right don’t appear to have any at all.

      • Gangnam Style 14.1.1

        Good article. This in the comments could be a something those right wing trolls should take note of “Watch the middle classes squeal as they join the working class wages and precariousness.”

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