Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy). Step right up to the mike…
Another take on the marxist view of the “subjective” factor long being a major impediment to necessary revolutionary change while “objective” factors–the material bleeding obvious state of a world on the brink indicates that need.
Does our social being determine our thinking or vice versa? Luckily some people break the mold like many scientists and political activists. ‘Mortgage captives’ certainly need to wake up and join them. Societal breakdown is not that far away when you look at our road rage cities, supermarkets with 2–3 day stocks, digital banking systems etc.
You beat me to it Viper, read the pump article after posting. A city going ‘down’ would soon become a landlocked version of a powerless cruise liner. As Christchurch people would know well.
After years of living in the North with tanks full of rain water and seafood across the road such thoughts do surface when living in the super city. VTOs observation is what one of my farm owning mates (across water from Whangarei) always gets worried about when there is a bird flu scare or whatever. Wind, solar, water tanks and gardens are the way to go.
Know of a few people in east Chch who have built in such resilience post-earthquake… So that they can survive almost indefinitely without wider support. Of course any such people or dwellings will also be sought out by the starving hordes in such circumstances…..
“Societal breakdown is not that far away when you look at our road rage cities, supermarkets with 2–3 day stocks, digital banking systems etc.”
Yep, never has society been more fragile given the weaknesses that are inherent in most of our systems today. It will only be realised when it happens unfortunately.
Have always said that the most scary person to be in this situation would be a farmer within 50km of a major population centre – lotsa new friends arriving to eat his sheep… and fuck all he can do about it… if he values his life …..
never mind, couldn’t happen here, nah, not in nz, got a nice house, good neighbours, shiny New World down te road, gotta go to work, put out of mind, smell the roses…
Have always said that the most scary person to be in this situation would be a farmer within 50km of a major population centre –lotsa new friends arriving to eat his sheep… and fuck all he can do about it… if he values his life …..
You a city lad or a farming lad? You have many friends in the city who are a crack shot with a .223? Or who know how to skin and gut a deer?
Personally, I’d back the farmer, his couple of mates and the farm hand over any rabble from the city, just so you know.
Plenty – probably more per km2 than in rural areas but I don’t think it would pan out like that…. but terrible subject and unpleasant to consider anyway, sorry..
Why would the farmer defend his flock? When society has broken down like that? What would he do with them anyway? Put them on the non-existent freighter to a UK supermarche?
And if his mates are helping him then who is looking after his mates farms? Does that not leave them open?
And the description of thousands (probably tens of thousands) approaching starvation as “rabble from the city” I think misses the situation and various more unpleasant characteristics of the human bean entirely.
It is an unpleasant subject but its reality as a possibility should be considered in light of the fragility of our society…. in particular the fact that supermarkets and cities have only 2-3 days of supplies at hand.
Tat
Farmers now can’t cope with the determined animal thieving either dead or being trucked off. We don’t hear about it very often because our news choosers don’t bother about this sort of important information getting to the general public. I think that Scott Guy case revealed an iceberg of dirty dealings in rural areas.
You might hear it on the rural news on Radionz but because of the silo system they have it’s not so likely in the national news. That gets taken up with readings of victims statements after court cases. So emotional and caring.
Sorry no you’re wrong, well its good in theory that will happen the problem is most rabble stick together and have an inflated sense of entitlement: “you have what we want so we’ll take it”
Which means there’ll be one helluva lot of people sticking together vs very few farmers looking after a lot of land meaning it would be very difficult to defend and if you’re defending one farm what happens if another group goes to your farm…
You only need to see what happens in other countries when it all turns to crap to see what happens though I dare say a farmer near a small town will do better
“I think you’re confusing ‘entitlement’ with desperation, or starvation.”
People with a sense of entitlement will do things differently when desperate than those without. Having a sense of entitlement isn’t necessarily a bad thing of course.
Hmmm, lots of different variables here that people are glossing over. How fast a collapse happens will be a big determiner in what happens after that. I wonder if a very fast collapse (as in, running out of supermarket food) will see most big city folk sitting tight, waiting for the authorities to sort it out, and then by the time they are starving they won’t have the energy to walk very far. The more resilient people will get out straight away. The less resilient that make it to farm land, won’t know how to catch a sheep let alone kill and find a way to eat it that doesn’t make them sick.
“You only need to see what happens in other countries when it all turns to crap to see what happens though I dare say a farmer near a small town will do better”
Where are you thinking? Because three the most immediate examples that spring to mind suggest that we might be ok. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the country people did relatively ok, it was the city people that had a hard time. In Cuba, which went through a kind of Peak Oil in a year, the general population did well. People got hungry at times, no-one starved, and the general health of the country improved. In a more acute situation, the resiliency of city communities in Iraq during the invasion was pretty impressive eg when the local authorities collapsed, the people previously employed in the power companies kept some of the electricity supply going without getting paid (for obvious reasons). The banks closed, but quickly a street level of banking started up. Humans are naturally co-operative and evolutionarily adapted to work in community. I don’t mean that terrible things wouldn’t happen (they happen already), but that it’s not a given that we would all turn into single units fighting for survival. The ‘Man Alone’ myth in NZ has a lot to answer for.
I live in the South Island and just see huge numbers of resilient and creatively skilled people, so I tend towards Tat’s view.
The more we think these things through now, and start putting practices and infrastructure in place, the better we will handle what happens. There are people in NZ have been doing this for a very long time, and now there are lots of people doing it. We need to reach a certain percentage of the population, not sure how many that is.
I also think this is geographical within NZ. I think mostly about Dunedin in terms of a big city because it’s the one I am most familiar with and it’s closest to where I live. But the issues for coastal Otago will be very different than those for say Auckland.
I don’t know why everyone is assuming all us city folk will be after the farm animals in the country come the apocalypse. I can’t remember the last time I ate any animal meat.
But I do know a lot of city/suburban folk who are pretty good fruit & veggie gardeners. I’d hang close with them and the places where water can be collected. Leave the others to fight to the death over farm animals.
It takes a long time to grow vegetable food karol. People will easily starve before they can grow a potato or apple. I think vto’s point was that in a relatively fast collapse people are going to be after the meat once the supermarkets run out.
“But I do know a lot of city/suburban folk who are pretty good fruit & veggie gardeners. I’d hang close with them and the places where water can be collected.”
When people talk about there being 3 days of food in the supermarkets, I haven’t seen the analysis of actual food country wide outside of supermarkets (as in gardens, market gardens etc), but I suspect that it’s not great. Most cultures traditionaly have relied on storing food. We don’t do that locally very well and much of it is reliant on freezing and refrigeration.
There are a couple of other issues here. One is that most (as in nearly all) of our food production relies on long distance transport. No petrol = no food. The other is that fruit and veggies don’t sustain people for very long. You need fats, protein and complex carbs too. Most vegan protein in NZ is imported (beans etc). Cheese and milk will fail pretty quickly without petrol except in small rural areas. Nuts are seasonal or locked up in storage. Lots of people will subsist for quite some time just on carbs, but where is all the wheat going to come from? (not from home gardeners). We are all very vulnerable when it comes to food, including vegetarians.
Even with a longer time frame for collapse (as in the Cuba scenario), you still need to get food production localised very quickly. I agree that there are lots of good gardeners still in NZ, but we need these skills much more widely spread within the population.
I think that people with veges might find when they get up in the morning that all the veges are out of the ground and away. Even before they are fully developed. Then what. People don’t have trouble applying linear rationality – I am hungry, they have a lot of food, my need is greater than theirs. Therefore I am entitled to help myself and take it all so we have some for later.
Then we need to be looking at longer term food production. I actually don’t think relying on sheep and cows is the answer either. I would rather we were looking at how local communities could be self-sustaining.
How difficult is it to grow the required beans and/or nuts, grains etc in NZ?
Not hard at all in technical horticultural/gardening terms karol. We already grow grains and nuts well, and the alternative people are starting to grow legumes. But getting people to grow them at a large enough scale to feed local populations, there are substantial economic and structural barriers, due to how farmers and gardeners are forced into systems that benefit capitalism, and how people are channeled into buying from supermarkets. For those that can afford to, supporting Farmers Markets, vege box schemes, CSAs, gate sales, retailers that prioritise local produce etc, is very helpful.
On the bright side, in a medium paced collapse scenario we would quickly stop exporting food we grow and be able to eat it ourselves.
Sheep and cows are important for wool and leather too, as well as diary. In Cuba they farmed animals like rabbits, and ate a lot less meat.
If we ate the whole animal (edible parts), we would need less animals, and there would be more land/resources for growing other kinds of foods.
If there was a world problem and we couldn’t get the food we need we might still have to export food that we need here, because of the contracts that were set up to supply stuff to others. And they would say they need it too.
I live among-st plenty….plenty for me to feed myself anyway. But it would not be if I had to share with the rest of Wellington. And even if we did a Cuba how many of us would have the skills? Maybe we should reprogram ourselves historically: plague, famine disease are only (in a historic sense) banned from our expectations. They are merely resting in the antechamber awaiting to re-enter the door.
How much plague, famine and disease did pre-European NZ experience?
Everyone has skills. Not everyone has to grow food, lots of other things that need to be done too. Learning how to trade equitably will be a big community-wide need.
I’m wondering how many Ann Rand deciples would suddenly become “eaters” and have to rely on those of us that have the knowledge to grow food, raise and butcher animals, husband bees etc
Oh, Mother Earth,
With your fields of green
Once more laid down
by the hungry hand
How long can you
give and not receive
And feed this world
ruled by greed
Patrick Gower @patrickgowernz 19h
Labour has introduced a female quota system that will see men demoted down the party list at expense of females
How is it that a leading news organisation can have such a biased political editor? I kind of know the answer to that question but it still astounds me.
The Alfred.E. Nuemann of political reporting Gower, TV3 and Media-Works in a free society are obviously free to broadcast,(subject to complaints) whatever they like which would seem to include out-right lies as ‘The News’,
What tho worries me is that TV3 and Media-Works gain funding from the State via NZ on Air which is said to be the difference between those entities remaining solvent or not,(this in my mind imparts to Media-Works a duty to report political matters in a fair and balanced manner),
i will suggest again that an incoming Government of the left ensure that all NZ on Air funding for this organization be stopped, if the organization wants to be one that favors the political right over the political left then they should be made to fund their own political broadcasts…
I suppose we can say that John Campbell provides some sort of balance because the issues he reports on are more likely to be taken seriously by the left.
As far as the gender issue goes, I thought a political editor might be able to put it in a broader context by looking at other countries who aim for 50% representation by women. It’s not as if these policies came down in the last shower. Norway?
“I suppose we can say that John Campbell provides some sort of balance” – you could say that, but its missing the point a bit
its not the campbell and gower balance each other out (which they dont) – its that gower actively practices spin, fabrication and generally interviews his own opinion instead of anything even vaguely like journalism.
Im no JC fan boy, and sometimes i find campbell live misses the mark – but hes far more of a journalist compared to “i just made some shit up” gower
Its not so much left vs right – its journalism vs made up bullshit
We should not worry quite so hard. Labour stories are dominating the airwaves like they haven’t for years.
The gender story is immensely softened and will play well in the longer term next year.
The insurance story will run and run.
And the housing and Christchurch rebuild stories are money for jam.
The MSM have so few factional fight stories now that they have to argue about policy. This is a massive shift. We are gonig to torn Paddy and the rest into policy wonks.
The only trick left is to frame policy into stories that bounce right. That’s a job for the media team in the Leaders’ office.
Honestly, I know you guys don’t see it or refuse to see it.
But the Man ban is just like the anti smacking, light bubs, shower head stuff that destroyed the last Labour government.
This shit is voter poison on steroids, Key must be walking around today with a grin a mile wide.
Well I’ll go on about it too. Choosing MPs by gender or sexual orientation or any other category is an extremely stupid thing for Labour to do. Go on, have a separate article about this and invite comments and a vote, I dare The Standard. As an LEC member I have participated in the choice of candidates for the Labour list (and also the Green list). Members should choose the best people for the job.
If the election is already lost, then your work here is done, BM. Come back again in 12 months and let’s see how that plays out, eh?
ps, can I suggest that hysterical use of the phrase ‘man ban’ and claiming that its electoral poison falls in to the category of ‘panicdotal evidence’?
i will suggest again that an incoming Government of the left ensure that all NZ on Air funding for this organization be stopped, if the organization wants to be one that favors the political right over the political left then they should be made to fund their own political broadcasts…
Bad12 You have never stated whether you have lived and worked in a country whereby the state controls the media by ownership or by fear. I don’t mean travelling or viewing their media from the outside but living their on a daily basis for a reasonable period – f.. even the sports comments were controlled. In my case I am not referring to the UK/Aus/US type of countries
Your comments raises two points:
1. The next step from funding control is editorship – there is nothing for free.
2. If we accept your idea then the flip side is that the right can also impend this policy when they return to office with one subtle change. I guess BM would have Campbell cancelled within a week.
The problem with living in a democracy is the Bad12 see the media favouring the political right while BM and his mates see the media as the voice of the political left. It just a view & if the government interferes in the media we no longer have a democracy. It either funding for both sides or no-one.
Sorry Bad12 you write some good stuff at times but not this one.
Gower is absolutely obsessed with this issue. I wonder why? Is he a closet transgender? Does he dress up in women’s clothes when he is at home? Why on earth does it get him so excited? He carries on like it is the biggest scandal since Watergate, when the rest the country doesn’t give a toss.
We can debate the pro’s and con’s of the State establishing and owning an insurance company ad nauseum, probably in terms of today’s political landscape point to such a policy as a radical departure from the Neo-liberal norm which it obvious is if you have no knowledge of the 1970’s the peak years for Government ‘ownership’ of all sorts of business,
What of the politics tho, 2 weeks befor David Cunliffe’s Conference announcement Winston Peters came out of the NZFirst Conference loudly proclaiming ‘the bottom line’ for any Party seeking the support of NZFirst after the 2014 election would be that very same thing, the establishment and ownership of an insurance company by the Government,
Labour and David Cunliffe could hardly have failed to have noticed that except for the name, where a comic might suggest Labour have inserted an ass into the policy, the policy, Winston’s bottom line, are the same,
The political signal???, on the surface we have the makings of a coalition arrangement between Labour and NZFirst after November 2014 that has little in the way of impediment bar the number of Cabinet positions needed to keep NZFirst intact and reasonably happy,
Of course if we were to see a conspiracy around every ballot box we might begin to suspect that David Cunliffe in a cunning move has reached out a large hand to NZFirst voters with the question, ‘why vote for the insurance company offered by the sMall party when you can vote for exactly the same from the bigger party’, after all on the current numbers,(as i see them), if Labour can reach across and half inch a small part of NZFirst’s voting support effectively leaving that Party below the 5% thresh-hold this would guarantee, in the carve up of the remaining NZFirst vote when the election night numbers are crunched, a Labour/Green Government,
Of course there is also another scenario where ‘the plan’ is to present after 2014 a Labour/NZFirst bloc to the Green Party attempting to formulate a coalition with the Green Party giving ‘confidence and supply’ similar i might add as the cozy arrangement of the previous Labour Government…
The options need to be kept open at this stage in case numbers change of the minor parties in the next 12 months. Who knows maybe the Greens and NZFirst will have to figure out how to work together if they want power.
Fold???, pragmatic politics from Russell Norman once He realized Labour had no stomach for engaging in what is now mainstream economic practice by a number of major economies,
Nationals 80 billion dollar debt mountain simply hamstrings the following Government forcing that Government to raise taxes or ‘do nothing’ thus leading it away from longevity,
National and Labour’s borrowing intentions simply leads to the impoverishment of the next generation to pay for the comfortable lifestyle of today and/or the injection of the IMF into the country running our economic and social policy…
Correct. The Greens had 20 months of relatively easy training and looking good. Now its time for them to step up to the 2014 championship fight.
National is already gearing up, big time.
Norman should have stuck to his guns for a little bit longer to make the point – the NZ Government has a monopoly on the creation of NZ Dollars. It can do so whenever it likes, in order to move real resources and people where they need to be.
Ad, stupid comment of the day, who carried the Opposition fight to National scoring the hits while David Shearer tried to learn how to string more than 6 words of the English language together as one coherent sentence…
RN knows how the monetary system works, knows that it really needs to be changed and knows that Labour won’t do a damn thing to change it.
National and Labour’s borrowing intentions simply leads to the impoverishment of the next generation to pay for the comfortable lifestyle of today and/or the injection of the IMF into the country running our economic and social policy…
QFT
The government should never borrow money as it is sovereign and thus can print all the money it needs. Along side this the government needs to stop the private banks from creating money.
At the time Dr Norman floated the idea it would have performed three key positives;
1. Kick started inflation which was below the reserve banks target (was abour 0.1% iirc),
2. Helped stabilise the exchange rate, and potentially saved a significant portion of the 40k manufacturing jobs that went to the wall over the last 18 months
3. Resulted in a much lower govt debt that will now have to be paid back via taxes.
It was dropped because conditions started to change (inflation started to rise, and the govt borrowed the money – that someone else printed).
And it became politically untenable; an effective tool trashed so a cheap political point could be scored by national.
National have much to answer for in their trashing of our economy. Actually, so does Labour as they’ve not been doing enough to highlight just how National have been trashing it and they’re not going to make the necessary changes to bring it back into balance.
Yes, looking at the relevant policy positions on a lot of the economic stuff to me is like looking at ‘the Generation Gap’, both the Green Party and NZFirst are saying much the same thing while perhaps proposing to arrive at the same objective by differing means…
Ok, the Natz’ Sesame Street word-for-the-day is “dangerous”. This comes after a few that have been tossed off such as “extreme narcissist” , “over the top”, “slight smugness”, etc.
I think the policy is bold and should be aimed at with all resources. But some tempering of enthusiasm with reality should probably take place. 2,500 extra houses per year in Chch in its current state by a new entrant is pretty mind-boggling. If they can do it then they should but I seriously fail to see how on many various fronts confronting such an effort.
Sure, but the ramp up is not possible imo. That is 10 houses each and every working day. If you start putting some actual numbers and people and materials against it and compare it to current levels of activity and shortages the problem becomes very clear. Not possible.
But as Donald Trump says in the first line of his first book – if you are going to bother thinking at all then you may as well think big…
These are the sorts of numbers of houses we’re going to be needing to get the city back up on it’s feet anyway.
I do wonder where they’re all going to go, though. Wigram Skies development is 1,600 houses and around 1,000 at Aidanfield.
Aidanfield started in 2002 and section sales are just winding up now (with an obvious boost post-earthquake), Wigram Skies will be going for another 5-6 years before it’s all built.
We have to decide as a society how important this is for the nation and for the people of Christchurch.
God forbid we consider what we did in the old days of the war – materials and fuel were strictly rationed so that everything possible was directed into the nation’s efforts. Factories and workshops were re-tasked on manufacturing and processing key products seen as critical.
Sure, but the ramp up is not possible imo. That is 10 houses each and every working day.
Realistically, it would start off being 2-3 houses/day, then by the last year be at a rate of 20 houses completed per day.
(Bearing in mind that each house will still take several weeks to build, but once in the production pipeline…)
Exactly Tat. Run it like there’s a crisis of that scale …. hmmm call it a city-destroying earthquake type crisis … use the powers the state already has to accelerate things.
vto
Don’t talk the housing plan down before its even started. It will be big and worthwhile even if the target isn’t met. And you in your spare time can keep an eye on it.
You are in Christchurch aren’t you? Keep up the pressure on the Dept send reports to The Standard, and keep them reds up to the mark. First catch your election, then simmer for a year, then bring to the boil. Voila – c’est si bon (that could be for some in Akaroa), kapai!
yes greywarbler we are in Chch most of the time and right in the heart of quake zone, rebuild, insurance, red zone, green zone, everything everything…. that is why I doubt the ability to implement the policy. I see and work in that sector right now and see the constraints referred to.
But give it a crack by all means. Go hard and think big. Lordy knows NZ is overdue for some change in the way things are attended to…
The policy will be one enormous herculean effort that is for sure. If it gets pulled off then I will be the first to applaud.
A better way to get into it though may be to prepare the first, say 200, homes so they can start within weeks of election, with a plan of action to bring the balance up to speed with urgency. That would require a small team of people to be working on this from right now. Is there such a team working on it? Working on anything to do with implementing the policy? Right now? curious …..
vto
Like your thinking. There’s life with you around, and others like you, so there’s hope too.
Gerry is the Big Man down there? What’s he doing for the little people outside
the CBD? So far outside they have seemed invisible. Caravans as temporary accommodation? I understand that one park has been taken over for quarters for all these builders that are going to be doing good stuff. Riccarton I think it was.
But that means that there are less places for the displaced Easties.
i think you will find that the next Labour/Green/NZFirst Government will ‘explain’ the 2500 houses built in the Christchurch area as the ‘sum total’ of all houses built including by private owners,
i wonder just how many homes are involved in the other ‘leg’ of Labour’s plans for Christchurch housing, 100’s???, 1000’s, there’s probably as David Cunliffe said on National Radio this morning one hell of a lot of quite decent housing in ‘the red zone’ that with minimal repair will make a great addition to the States housing stocks,
As cheap as cheese as well, some of these houses are apparently fit to live in now, their only problem being that they are in the red zone and i would assume Government would have to provide some monies to the Christchurch Council so as to restore sewerage and water facilities,
i can tho hear Brownlee right now thinking ”oh no you don’t” and getting ready to send in the demolition crews…
“i think you will find that the next Labour/Green/NZFirst Government will ‘explain’ the 2500 houses built in the Christchurch area as the ‘sum total’ of all houses built including by private owners,”
They are promising 2,500 “affordable” houses per year, so they can’t simply count all existing private construction because a lot of this won’t be affordable. The media are also reporting that the plan is apparently to sell the houses to first-home buyers only, which again means they can’t simply count all private construction as being part of the plan.
Talked to Carter Holt or Fletchers recently about modular homes?
In fact checked the number of multi-unit consents either confirmed or underway in Auckland right now?
TransportBlog has been making a feature of just the approved ones ready for construction over the last month.
Check it out.
Aha, and that is what Phil Twyford has made reference to, if you have a factory,or any number of them, you can churn out ‘flat pack’ or totally constructed housing like they turn out cars from an assembly line,
There is not the need for 2 or 3 builders per house construction, labourers can assemble all the various components in the factory overseen by a qualified builder, factories need not run one shift per day, 3 shifts 24 hours a day will churn out 3 times the housing,
Some of the totally factory assembled housing which is then trucked to it’s site i have seen online is quite modern ‘flash’ housing…
And if they are clever, while the components of the actual houses are constructed in the factories any number of labouring crews can be putting in the foundations, footpaths and gardens…
There are a few youtubes up with the Chinese building 15 story hotels in under a week. Concepts such as modular design and prefab components have been in use for a very long time. The Koreans helped take over the tanker building industry using those ideas.
Of course it is, the late Barry Beazly saw the possibilities when he and his father modelled their franchise on the tract housing they’d seen in the US where, between 1947 and 1951, in just one municipality 17,447 homes were built by Levitt and Sons.
Of course it’s possible. It really just comes down to ensuring that a couple of thousand builders from outside Canterbury live there for a couple of years and then go back to their home.
Yeah, because the only thing you need to build thousands of houses is builders /sarc.
Sorry DtB, but it’s just not as simple as that. There are also issues of where the builders come from and the effect that that has on their home communities.
NZ used to do this kind of thing all the time, with hydro towns, etc. People only think its hard because for 30 years we’ve been conditioned to believe that NZ could no longer perform major nation building.
Or more correctly we have to recreate the situation where this would be possible. In this sense I think vto is right. It’s not just a matter of building x houses in x years. It’s about all the things that are needed to make that happen beyond the hammers and timber.
My non-builder dad and his builder mate built the first house my parents lived in. It’s a different story today because of the changes to the building act post-leaking buildings, and because consent processes are extremely time and money consuming now. It really is a different world. Plus what’s been mentioned about the change in culture.
Two things:
1.) A council can, and does, do more than one consent at a time
2.) A while back there was talk about consenting designs. In other words, a house built to that design could be built anywhere in the country without the design needing to be re-consented. All that would need to be done would be the foundations for the specific section thus speeding up the process. Don’t know if this actually went through but it seems reasonable.
It’s not just a matter of building x houses in x years.
That’s exactly what it’s all about. Yes, it’s going to take some organisation and planning but it can be done and it can be done by government faster and better than it can be done by “the market”.
Transportables DtB, during it’s heyday the Mount Maunganui yard building homes for the Tokaanu and later the Huntly scheme was shipping five to seven completed homes a week.
Did you hear about the film Son of an Art Dealer. It’s about an isolated guy who has priceless paintings by old masters shut away in dark rooms to preserve them. He received them from his father who was an art dealer in Germany who authorities think, received them from Nazis who stole them from Jewish estates. He is a bit of a recluse, selling off an occasional one when he needs cash. But it isn’t a film, it’s true.
What a moral hazard. He thinks what is the sense of returning them as the Nazis probably killed their owners. If no-one knows then I can keep ‘my precious’ close and never be found out. If I reveal I have them then I am a marked man for notoriety and punishment. If I leave them somewhere anonymously people will be hunting for the source. Tainted objects of beauty, in a film he would die with the paintings around him, fine funerary pieces beside him, like an Egyptian dignitary. Apparently he has been found out in real life. The aftermath of war rolls on.
But now we have another event to worry about. Bill talked about Fukushima and the delicate task of moving the fuel rods. They had another 5 earthquake near there the other day. And there is always someone who talks down the dangers that need to be faced. Someone with a Three Mile Island connection. Bill’s Sunday notes about it sounded more reliable. Look up Bill in the search line up top if you want a catch up.
What’s this business of volunteer firefighters taking on the regular work that paid firefighting teams should do at Blenheim airport. I can’t believe at the callous way that the good nature of the volunteers is being abused. They sacrifice their personal and family time to carry out what are irregular, hopefully, safety interventions on behalf of their local area communities. But that good nature is being taken advantage of by people with the budgets to pay for the services they want.
The government, through the Defence Force personnel and equipment, used to provide a seven day service to Blenheim airport. Now, ‘because of budget constraints’ its weekdays only and I think only 8 to 5p.m So what is done – call in the volunteer fire brigade, bleed them till they’re dry.
The volunteers offer their services and join a responsible, trained, and supportive team ready to drop their own concerns to attend to the community’s serious events of destruction, injury or death. They should not have extra work dumped on them. Their management does not seem as supportive of them as I would expect. In fact there were ructions some years ago, where they were being taken advantage of.
And besides the Blenheim situation, firefighters are being loaded with the task of calls to cardiac arrests at present done by St Johns Ambulance. The reason being given is ‘if they are in the area, and able to provide more timely assistance’. I suppose this relates to ‘the golden hour’, time that can be crucial for the recovery of seriously ill patients. But I view this as a serious interference in the lives of these people, adding to the time spent on their volunteer work and away from their own responsibilities. They will have jobs, paid work, so their employers are involved also, they sacrifice time too, having to find a way to fill the gap caused by an employee firefighter’s call-out.
In the USA they have firefighters who are also ambulance workers.. I think they are two different jobs, each with its own specialised knowledge required. The firefighters, because they are given training in the care of injured persons, are now having these efficiency and cost-saving vultures load them with extra work in this field. The thin edge of the wedge? These managers co-operating with worker hours are stealing time from their lives, their work, their family, their personal time. Because they are responsible and good-natured people, it is not easy for them to refuse or even protest. But this abuse of altruism must not be allowed to continue.
Vto we were building 10,000 more homes a year up till 2008
Technology has moved on in the building industry simple affordable homes can be built quickly.
Cooky cutter + factory built homes like in Australia where whole suburbs are built with different facades claddings colours excetera.
The capacity is available I am in the building industry .
The workforce is available theirs an oversupply of building materials in the world as well as an oversupply of trades.Just about every developed country has an oversupply of builders so no problem their like wise materials if NZ can’t make Asia can.
Labour loses ChCh seat, giving Key an increased majority. Voters are outraged that Key is profiteering off the ChCh earthquake and is forced into an early election.
I could be very wrong, parliament may have some measure that balances the vote when a bi-election takes one MP out of parliament. Since Key needs ACT and Dunne, having that extra vote (lose of ChCh MP as she went on to become Mayor).
BM Boorish Mysogynist.
National are in trouble according to Matthew Hooten they expect to loose the next election they can I’ll afford to offend half the population.
Young girls, police think one could be 13, being sexually compromised or actually raped and put on Facebook.
How come there isn’t a case to be brought against those involved under the Human Rights Act. Where is the respect for privacy and for the personal rights of the girls?
And the police have been monitoring the Facebook pages, have apparently identified some of the young men and women, and have allowed it to continue saying that they were waiting for some evidence to show up, or one of the girls to make a complaint.
It seems like collaboration almost. Not sharp action. Not getting onto Facebook to get it taken down. Apparently commercial TV3 did that, not our public protectors.
And one remembers Louise Nicholls and the macho and morals raincheck that the force has had revealed in the past and the thought, is it the same now can easily arise again. Don’t the police care about their reputation? I would expect them to be very sensitive and anxious to clean up their act It really seems that sporting codes are tougher on their people and bad publicity than our Police.
Yeah, its okay it seems for parents to not protect their kids from slander, and Police can sit on the case until ‘a real crime’ turns up. Sorry, but police heads should roll. Police must protect minors when parents fail to. Its clear that parents have a clear civil case of slander, that these young men cannot prove they raped or gotten drunk minors.
the cop on the telly kept saying they were waiting for one of the girls to be “brave” enough to come forward, he kept repeating that word “brave’. the fb site was brought down after the journalist got involved. the police say some of the girls were underage, then the boys got them drunk, had sex with them, then bragged about it on facebook. i cant see how this is not a crime.
aerobubble
Don’t be too hard on parents. Social science study shows that parents have less authority now against the countering messages from the various media, sexualisation of young girls etc.
The girls use their good looks etc to try and be popular with the boys. It’s very strong pressure they put on parents to let them be free, go out, stay up late, fib about where they will be.
Learning to respect and value themselves is something that is hard to teach them. They like staying out late, being ‘adult’ in their minds, never thinking that bad things will happen to them. And leave possibly indelible memories.
A child is beaten, harmed, Police can act. But what
if abuse is alledged? Police cannot act? Surely not.
Well children pictures are being posted online, with
comments that they were gotten drunk and raped.
Police cannot investigate the parents? Since the
parents have a duty of care to protect their children.
Parents have an obligation to their kids to protect
them, even against allegations of being ‘loose’,
drunk, where this is not the case. Who has the
responsibility to protect children standing in the
community if not their parents, and parents who
do not, and leave their children with potential self-harming
pressures. Pretty sure children don’t want to be
called drunken sluts. The fact that some young men
may have alledgely raped, given drink to minors and
publically humilated minors, should not stop Police
removing these children from parents for their own safety
since even the allegation is harmful to a child.
And parents have a responsibility to act to protect their
children. If young men assert online of activities that
are illegal and involve minors, and parents do not
make complaints, against slander of their children.
The civil case is a slam dunk, since these young men’s
assets can be seized and sold off to provide reparations,
as they are hardly going to prove they raped minors, gave
minors alcohol. Why should lousy lazy parents who do not
protect their children, children who will be left exposed to
potential continued harm, psychological and even repeat…
Why have Police sat on their hands for so long! Police can’t
cherry pick which offense, or which offender, especially when
a minor is incapable of laying the complaint themselves.
Its has nothing to do with it being the internet that was the
publishing forum.
“The fact that some young men may have alledgely raped,”
Aero, not quite sure what you are on about but:
1. if you say that the rapes are ‘alleged’, then why are you not insisting that the other behaviours are alleged too? eg the children needing protection.
2. why are you focussed on the parents of the victims instead of the parents of the violent offenders? Why not advocate removing the rapists from their parents as a way of solving the problem?
Sorry, but your whole comment smacks of making the victims the problem instead of the men doing the raping. And that just contributes to rape culture.
Okay, its alleged that Police have discovered a website where young men alleged they’ve given drink and had sex with minors.
As minors parents have a duty of care, I don’t see a difference between smacking a child and calling them a drunken slut, so I don’t see a difference between someone else calling them a drunken slut.
As fr the focusing but, obviously Capone was not taken to court for being a mobster but for tax fraud. Authorities cannot ignore one crime because they don’t have enough evidence for another.
And its has to be noted, you seem to not realize that a victim of crime can become the victim of that crime again, and the parents have a duty to protect. Parents can immediately bring civil proceedings against these young men, and will win since what is the defense, evidence they got minors drunk and had non-consensual sex with them?
Its going to be pretty hard for these young men to continue if they are paying civil damages and their car has been sold.
Dude, they didn’t have “non-consenual sex”, they raped them.
Parents can’t stop children from being raped. Lock children up and they just get raped at home. And the rapists outside the home just find someone else to rape. The problem here is the RAPISTS not the teenagers, or the teenagers’ parents.
“Authorities cannot ignore one crime because they don’t have enough evidence for another.”
The issue here isn’t lack of evidence. It’s the police not doing their job properly and instead buying into rape culture. RNZ has had a good overview of this at the top of their news in the last vew hours, go listen to it properly.
Suggesting that the parents prosecute civilly instead of the police prosecuting criminally just supports rape culture too. I also doubt that the women that have been raped want to be paid by their rapists. Or were you suggesting that the money go to the parents?
Seems like a civil prosecution should be brought immediately as nothing else is being done, and it does not preclude a criminal prosecution down the track.
What McFlock said below. Plus you need to realise the social context this is happening within. Many of the people around those girls, and some of the girls themselves, won’t be calling this rape yet. Aero can go on about parental responsibilities for protection, but there is a societal protection issue here too. Those young women have been left in a situation where they are being damaged. Society needs to stand up and take responsibility for this, so that as well as caretaking those teens the culture also changes.. Otherwise, even if some boys get sued, not alot will change.
A strong message needs to be sent that both protects the young women right now, but also changes how the men involved are thinking and acting.
Even if it turns out that the police can’t lay charges (which I don’t believe on the basis of what I have read so far), they could still be going into those communities and dealing with this at that level. Rape Crisis and the NZ Police could collaborate on naming rape culture and then re-educating that generation coming through. The reason the Police don’t do that is rape culture.
What I find most disturbing about this whole episode is that there is a moral malaise, a disconnection. I watched the young men on TV, it left me feeling sickened and empty. Where was the “empathy” that made your fellow person a person, and not just a material object to be used, abused and thrown aside like a cigarette butt? How can those young men grow up so lacking emotionally? What does that say about their self awareness and their visions of their own futures?
I wont comment on the Police and “rape culture”. What I will say is that the Police did not appear to have fully explored the legal avenues open to them, the line was their hands were tied without witnesses coming forward. Somebody with more legal knowledge might wish to comment on this: it appeared to me that there was a conspiracy to commit an illegal act at minimum.
Those young women have been left in a situation where they are being damaged. Society needs to stand up and take responsibility for this, so that as well as caretaking those teens the culture also changes..
I can’t see the politics of the situation allowing any real societal changes to be made: damage to our young people and throwing them on to the scrap heap is something which has been quite acceptable in NZ for a long period of time.
Everywhere you look in this case there are victims. Those young guys, the perps, say they were done for multiple counts of rape and put away for 10-15 years each, well they will come out after that with next to zero educational and job prospects, just lots of criminal connections from the prison. More young NZers wasted.
It’s also quite easy to say “society needs to stand up and take responsbility” but that’s very vague and anyhows it falls on to the relevant local communities and the immediate families involved more than anyone else.
Rape Crisis and the NZ Police could collaborate on naming rape culture and then re-educating that generation coming through. The reason the Police don’t do that is rape culture.
Get the politicians to order the police to do it then, and provide the budget. If you think it will make any difference.
So the parents need to hire a lawyer to do the job that the police won’t, otherwise it’s the parents who are being negligent?
And, of course, hope that little jimmy mcphoto’s daddy isn’t rich enouch to hire a slew of lawyers and bankrupt them with counter-suits.
It would be pretty hard for these young men to continue to offend if the police were pressing charged, or at least saying something other than claiming not to be able to do anything without a complaint. Fucksake, they can get murder convictions without having a body, but they can’t do anything when a crime is posted on FB?
There’s a room, there’s alcohol, they have to been supplied, parents have to know where their kids are, and Police can act in case of endangerment of minors.
I would have thought that some kind of privacy charge would be an easy one to go for – not unlike some recent cases of guys getting done for filming up skirts or hiding cameras in bathrooms etc.
The parents protecting their girls, if they are at work all day and looking after children and family all night, their girls might slip out and get into trouble. Parents aren’t able to be in three places at once.
The parents aiming to have responsible boys with standards of behaviour. What do they teach their boys about decent treatment of girls and other people. Do they see their job as just to feed them lots of meat and take them to sports games, and make sure they pass their exams. Is there any talk about personal standards, about respect for others, about not just yielding to whatever animal impulse passes through their minds?
If those parents knew their son was involved in this facebook stuff what are they doing and saying to him with anger and sorrow as to his behaviour? It’s not all about girls being foolish and losing their heads. Most girls wouldn’t think of ganging up to enjoy a boy who they are controlling. Perhaps they should, instead of being victimised and used as playthings by males abusing the girl’s very essence, her femaleness and intrinsic desire to relate to a male which drives the world and always has.
It has been a long day. Get up at 0430 (after barely sleeping) to catch a 6am flight back to Auckland. Then off to work after a shower at home on the way through. A bit too vague to capture a transient bug with Aids to Navigation (AtoNs) that showed up on friday after I’d left for conference. Finally left a couple of devices running with logging on overnight. Headed home for some kip at 4pm….
Listen to the policeman talk about how they can’t arrest anyone because no victim has been ‘brave enough’ to make a fomal statement. That there is rape culture. that’s what them there feminists are talking about.
Then go read the discussion at Public address, particularly this comment from Emma Hart, though there are many more:
yeah that cop was disgusting. they said they had a word with the ‘boys’, ‘dont brag about it fellas, otherwise you gonna get busted…’ or somethign along those lines?. those boys families must be utterly embarrassed, well i hope so!
I understand that, but surly there is enough evidence, why not seize these rapists cell phones/computers, I think its a safe bet that they took pictures of their victims in a state
of undress, that would be child pornography, then you can arrest them.
Well there’s all sorts of things we might think the police could have been doing. We know, for instance, that they don’t hesitate to use the GCSB to track cellphones and metadata. We don’t know what sort of things for exactly, but we’ve been told it’s drugs and money laundering.
Tracking a gang of rapists who gloat about their activities however, seems to be not a priority.
you know, I have to say this, its disappointing, that the left are saying stuff about the police, the right are saying stuff about the girls drinking..
IMHO what needs to be said, is that these rapists are the ones to blame 100%, its rape and they belong in jail.
Who is tasked with investigating crimes and then prosecuting alleged offenders in court, thus enabling them, if guilty beyond reasonable doubt, to be put in gaol?
Also kind of weird, that you criticise me, when you said pretty much the same thing:
but surly there is enough evidence, why not seize these rapists cell phones/computers, I think its a safe bet that they took pictures of their victims in a state
of undress, that would be child pornography, then you can arrest them.
But you know, the left and the right are just the same. Coz questioning the police and blaming the victims is the same.
sigh, maybe these days have been coming ever since gamers began having vicarious sex in Grand Theft Auto. Certainly evidence of more dehumanization of victims by offenders in these social trends. Been similar rings of men found offending on a huge scale in the UK. Generally facilitated by the admission of drug and / or alcohol. Yet we hear that the Taliban are misogynist…
RT
What I read about the UK seemed to be Indian/Pakistani men with white girls. I think that the high barriers against some cultures having sex outside marriage, mean that they look at western women who don’t keep to that rule, thinking that they are ‘easy’ and don’t deserve any respect as people. The dark side of the purity culture. The division of women into saint or whore, respect or availability.
“sigh, maybe these days have been coming ever since gamers began having vicarious sex in Grand Theft Auto. Certainly evidence of more dehumanization of victims by offenders in these social trends.”
I do think that things we do for ‘recreation’ affect our thinking and behaviour. But pack rape of drunk girls in social settings is not new and predates computer games by a long way. This is about rape culture RT. Modern violent culture overlays that for sure, but it’s not the core of it.
you know, I have to say this, its disappointing, that the left are saying stuff about the police, the right are saying stuff about the girls drinking..
IMHO what needs to be said, is that these rapists are the ones to blame 100%, its rape and they belong in jail.
You really are a fool. Everyone else here is making a serious attempt to talk about (yet another) police failure, and you’ve once again tried to sidetrack discussion by launching into one of your wandery and confused speculations about left and right.
Please stay on your own blog, where you can continue to write all sorts of silly things, and bother nobody.
Morrissey, I don’t think Brett is deliberately trying to sidetrack. He’s as angry about it as the rest of us – just looking at it from a different perspective.
I disagree, Anne. Brett Dale has an established track record of attempting to derail serious discussions by making bizarre comments like he has done, yet again, here. You are being very charitable in your assessment of this pest.
I want to prosecute people who get underage girls drunk, rape them, film it,
share it on the internet, and then show off about it, and then try to recruit other rapists if they pay them 20 dollars.
Because New Zealand has always been a hotbed of drunken teenage promiscuity, and the police have better things to do than listen to the tales of adolescent braggarts and fantasists.
Here’s what the cop said:
“We’ve told them their behaviour is verging on criminal if not criminal, and suggested it cease,” says Mr Scott. “Some of the boys and their families were compliant and we believe they have stopped associating with the group.”
That’s the common sense response in my view. They’d never get a conviction, as half of NZ has engaged in drunk teenage sex.
Are you saying that if a 15 yr old girl is so drunk she can’t speak or move, and a number of teen boys put their penises inside her, that SHE is having ‘drunk teen sex’?
Are you saying that if a 15 yr old girl is so drunk she can’t speak or move, and a number of teen boys put their penises inside her, that SHE is having ‘drunk teen sex’?
one of the boys is the son of an ‘international celebrity’, the other, the son of a cop, according to tv3…certainly beginning to stink. tho the cop on rnz did make a lot of sense, but now this comes out?
“Leaving aside that what is being described here is very clearly rape, it seems pretty clear that it’s also making an intimate visual recording without consent in terms of s 216 of the Crimes Act.”
Also, honestly, two years? At some stage the police wouldn’t want to get a little proactive and put some weekend surveillance in when young women are being raped? Even if it didn’t lead to convictions, it might have had a preventative measure – excuse me sir, just before you go any further, can we talk to the young woman and you? Oh she’s smashed, I think she can come with us and not with you. Thanks.
That’s a pretty clear indictment of how the NZ Police view rape, still. And how much this society values young women (or young men for that matter). Consider how much time, effort, money the police put into other crimes where they know they are occuring over 2 years. Hell, consider how much effort went into the Tuhoe raids. The men in this situation are in fact domestic terrorists.
How society views young men and young women. How young men and young women view themselves. How they value themselves and have pride in themselves. Thoughtful questions?
There will always be the need to protect oneself against addictive booze and other drugs. Also people who would like to get something valuable from you for free. Mugging or hugging can have similar outcomes! It is sad to see behaviour that was illustrated and written about in the 1700s occurring today. Can’t we learn?
There is a famous Hogarth picture of a drunk mother slumped on the ground, her baby falling out of her arms. This was shown alongside a sign ‘Drunk for 1 penny, Dead drunk for tuppence, Straw for nothing’!!
Hogarth was disturbed about the venality of the government encouraging distilling as it used grain which was suffering a slump in sales, and the gin sales caused consequent decay of society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Street_and_Gin_Lane
http://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Mothers-Ruin/
In the 1730’s notices could be seen all over London. The message was short and to the point
‘Drunk for 1 penny, Dead drunk for tuppence, Straw for nothing’!!
In London alone, there were more than 7,000 ‘dram shops’, and 10 million gallons of gin were being distilled annually in the capital…
PROTEST! Oppose the TICS and International Convention Centre Bills!
WHEN: Tuesday 5 November 2013 (Guy Fawkes Day)
TIME: 12 noon – 2pm
WHERE: Outside TVNZ (Corner of Hobson and Victoria Streets Auckland City)
(Both the TICS and International Convention Centre Bills listed on the provisional NZ Parliamentary ‘Order Paper’ for 5 November 2013 http://www.parliament.nz/resource/0001954127 )
While this National/ACT Government continues to violate citizens lawful rights to privacy, freedom of expression and freedom of association under the TICS Bill, ( http://techliberty.org.nz/changes-to-the-tics-bill/ ) there has been no ‘due diligence’ on the increased risk of money-laundering at Sky City under the International Convention Centre Bill, which effectively allows anonymity to money-launderers and organised criminals?
Quite unbelievable, in my considered opinion, that OFCANZ (illegally) sought and obtained the assistance of the GCSB in the unlawful surveillance of Kim Dotcom, and charged him with money-laundering, yet have not lifted a finger to do ‘due diligence’ on the arguably FAR bigger money-laundering threat arising from the International Convention Centre (Sky City) Bill?
A GREAT look for New Zealand – ‘perceived’ to be ‘the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ (along with Denmark and Finland) , according to the Transparency International 2012 Corruption Perception Index?
they should grow up and get past that rapey phase that many young torieboys go through, but they can keep their knighthoods because they got those awards for other reasons. /sarc
Doesn’t touch on the fact that these are 17-18 year olds getting underage girls drunk and raping them. But he gets that the shaming them on facebook later is bad.
Would like to see a legal opinion on this. I was of the understanding that for statuatory rape, a complaint by the underage girl wasn’t necessary for someone to be charged.
In my last year at school, one of my friend’s sister was found to be having sex with her boyfriend two weeks before her 16th birthday. The police charged the guy even though she begged them not to. He was about 6 months older than her, and his father was a truck driver. That was a while ago, but they certainly didn’t need a complaint then. This case stinks in more ways than one.
The Boiler Suit and other working class looks coming this way…
“In the last Australian election Liberal strategist Mark Textor put then-opposition leader Tony Abbott in a bright velcro vest and hard hat right at the centre of campaign pictures. Now in Britain his partner Lynton Crosby has further developed the working look by putting his client, Prime Minister David Cameron, into a boiler suit.”
Once, only seems to allow one vote per PC or at least it doesn’t seem to change the total if you vote more then and of course left wingers would never organize to vote on an on-line poll (thats sarcasm by the way)
I don’t expect the gender quota policy to be particularly popular amongst voters as a whole. But that wasn’t the point of the remit. Hopefully some professional polling is done on the issue some time soon.
All I said was that the gender quota policy isn’t going to be very popular, from the feedback I am getting. Whether it will encourage more women to put their hands up to be candidates – I think that’s speculative and it wasnt the point of the remit.
I guess what some people might be thinking is what will be next…will govt departments be forced to ensure theres gender equality in the hiring for example
So what was the point of the remit then (genuine curiosity)
I can tell you right now that the genda quota policy is exceedingly stupid and could be enough to stop Labour winning the next election. Get rid of it, and quickly!
Roastbusters. (as per conversation above) So on the news just now it’s been said that one of the boys’ is the son of an entertainer and another is the son of a cop, no mention of whose sons they are. Since this isn’t a case of name suppression because we’ve never got as far as the courts with this, what is it? Do the lawyers for the father prevent their clients names from being broadcast? Why are they protected when the girls aren’t?
Why did the cop say last night they couldn’t do anything because none of the girls have been “brave” enough to come forward? The shame isn’t theirs to own, so did he really mean “they haven’t come forward because they don’t feel supported enough to do so”? Why did the reporter feel it necessary to say that one of the victims had already lost her “innocence”? How is that relevant to her being raped?
Age old rhetorical questions. The problem is they are still being asked.
One of those times when I just think WTF is going on with guys these days and yeah I think that maybe some laws could be looked at…I dunno maybe a lawyer could explain it better but maybe the burden of proof required to start an investigation could be lowered if the alleged crime involves under age kids, drugs or something
“I just think WTF is going on with guys these days”
Chris73, this is not new behaviour. The difference now is that people are willing to talk about it, and talk about it as rape (thank-you feminism for all the hard work in the past few decades). Plus there is the internet which alters the discourse hugely. And of course the internet allows those young men to be complete arseholes in a much more public way. But make no mistake, this behaviour has been around for a very long time.
It’s possible that chris73 has not met the type of bloke that’s an exhibitionist. That would take a photo of his penis and send that to someone he wants to interest or shock or both.
There’s a lot going on that doesn’t enter many people’s understanding. From that behaviour going on to more advanced titillation is a few steps. I think the word that covers both the male, and female behaviour in being attracted to these sleazebags, would be hedonism – .
the pursuit of pleasure; sensual self-indulgence.
I’ve only got the website link with text, not the actual reporters words but they did relate to the young woman who was interviewed below:
“One girl, who is choosing to remain anonymous, says the Roast Busters stole her soul.
“They don’t understand how I feel inside; they don’t understand how this has hurt me,” she says.
Police say the girl is one of a number of drunk, underage victims they’ve interviewed about being exploited by the Roast Busters”
It was one of those “if/but” unnecessary sentences that acts as a disclaimer to the information provided. I wonder if TV3 sought to minimise her reality and her pain by pointing out that the victim had lost her virginity as an underage person. By saying it, they were already discrediting the criminal act of the young men involved.
PB: Yeah, I mean why would you need to feel “brave” when faced with the potential parent of your rapist. How many young women were threatened with the line: “don’t even bother with the cops, my dad is one, bitch” And still the same spokesperson for the cops said tonight, that had nothing to do with their lack of action…………
I hope that someone has warned the Afghani interpreters and their families about the Bangers being exploded on November 5th, and before and after. Four very loud bombs blasts have just gone off. They could sound like IEDs.
As fireworks which were meant to be colourful things, these are a sham. I hate the things, and I think they should be limited to one public place, where people can buy one or two to let off in a field or something and there is a set piece to watch and it raises money for the local firefighters, appropriately. And too many fireworks especially bangers get held over and exploded at various times during the year long after November 5th.
Yes, on to a another topic, that of Guy Fawkes. We do have a number of refugee’s from war zones living in NZ and I’ve wondered before what they think of NZer’s sense of fun at blowing things up in the night suddenly without warning, at this time of the year.
Today, yet again, I’ve signed what seems to be an annual petition to govt to ban the private sale of fireworks. As usual it was from animal welfare orientated group. As usual it will be ignored. Who wants to be the government that bans “fun” ? No one so far.
I’m all for public displays in a controlled environment. Better that than leave explosives in the hands of folks that intentionally set out to harm domestic and farmed animals that the SPCA have to deal with every year. Let alone the stress caused by fireworks to animals kept indoors on Guy Fawkes night.Tomorrow, I’ll spend half the evening lying under the bed trying to calm our cat friend down.
Our suburbia encroaches onto farmland where we have several bird species that are nesting with their chicks as well as sheep with their lambs and cows with their calves. As well as all the development these animals have to cope with (this is another story for another time)they have to cope with sounds that are frightening to them. Got to marvel at human sensitivity and intelligence.
Its essential for democracy to have outlets for political expression. Celebrating the bomber of parliament by burning his image is for me the one finger to both the terrorists, and the authoritarians who would see any chatter about government to be unlawful. And then there is the very real gain that we manage fireworks and control gun powder.
lolita or somebody’s brother
You obviously can’t get to sleep because of the fireworks and the noise or the worry that you won’t have any fireworks and noise if intelligent people can stop this childish expensive destructive ritual.
Adequate sleep is very necessary for clear thinking and the growth of brain function and general health. Before you get to be somebody’s partner, or somebody’s father it would be a good idea to get lots of sleep.
Either way, you usually need to be by the computer and be ready to bid, for any
chance at winning the item. They say any form of exercise can keep your body fit and active.
Unfortunately, the developer also had to express its disappointment in a
leak of game assets from PSN pre-orders in Europe that have
led to the spread of spoilers.
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As support continues to fall, Luxon also now faces his biggest internal ructions within the coalition since the election, with David Seymour reacting badly to being criticised by the PM. File photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate ...
Not since 1988 when Richard Prebble openly criticised David Lange have we seen such a challenge to a Prime Minister as that of David Seymour to Christopher Luxon last night. Prebble suggested Lange had mental health issues during a TV interview and was almost immediately fired. Seymour hasn’t gone quite ...
Three weeks in, and the 24/7 news cycle is not helping anyone feel calm and informed about the second Trump presidency. One day, the US is threatening 25% trade tariffs on its friends and neighbours. The reasons offered by the White House are absurd, such as stopping fentanyl coming in ...
This video includes personal musings and conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Wherever you look, you'll hear headlines claiming we've passed 1.5 degrees of global warming. And while 2024 saw ...
Photo by Heather M. Edwards on UnsplashHere’s the key news, commentary, reports and debate around Aotearoa’s politics and economy in the week to Feb 10 below. That’s ahead of live chats on the Substack App and The Kākā’s front page on Substack at 5pm with: on his column in The ...
Is there anyone in the world the National Party loves more than a campaign donor? Why yes, there is! They will always have the warmest hello and would you like to slip into something more comfortable for that great god of our age, the High Net Worth Individual.The words the ...
Waste and fraud certainly exist in foreign aid programs, but rightwing celebration of USAID’s dismantling shows profound ignorance of the value of soft power (as opposed to hard power) in projecting US influence and interests abroad by non-military/coercive means (think of “hearts and minds,” “hugs, not bullets,” “honey versus vinegar,” ...
Health New Zealand is proposing to cut almost half of its data and digital positions – more than 1000 of them. The PSA has called on the Privacy Commissioner to urgently investigate the cuts due to the potential for serious consequences for patients. NZNO is calling for an urgent increase ...
We may see a few more luxury cars on Queen Street, but a loosening of rules to entice rich foreigners to invest more here is unlikely to “turbocharge our economic growth”. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate ...
Let us not dance daintily around the elephant in the room. Our politicians who serve us in the present are not honest, certainly not as honest as they should be, and while the right are taking out most of the trophies for warping narratives and literally redefining “facts”, the kiwi ...
A few weeks ago I took a look at public transport ridership in 2024. In today’s post I’m going to be looking a bit deeper at bus ridership. Buses make up the vast majority of ridership in Auckland with 70 million boardings last year out of a total of 89.4 ...
Oh, you know I did itIt's over and I feel fineNothing you could say is gonna change my mindWaited and I waited the longest nightNothing like the taste of sweet declineSongwriters: Chris Shiflett / David Eric Grohl / Nate Mendel / Taylor Hawkins.Hindsight is good, eh?The clarity when the pieces ...
Photo by Towfiqu barbhuiya on UnsplashHere’s what we’re watching in the week to February 16 and beyond in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty:Monday, February 10The Kākā’s weekly wrap-up of news about politics and the economy is due at midday, followed by webinar for paying subscribers in Substack’s ...
A listing of 23 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, February 2, 2025 thru Sat, February 8, 2025. This week's roundup is again published soleley by category. We are still interested in feedback to hone the categorization, so if ...
Today, I stumbled across a Twitter Meme: the ending of The Lord of the Rings as a Chess scenario: https://x.com/mellon_heads/status/1887983845917564991 It gets across the basic gist. Aragorn and Gandalf offering up ‘material’ at the Morannon allows Frodo and Samwise to catch Sauron unawares – fair enough. But there are a ...
Last week, Kieran McAnulty called out Chris Bishop and Nicola Willis for their claims that Kāinga Ora’s costs were too high.They had claimed Kāinga Ora’s cost were 12% higher than market i.e. private devlopersBut Kāinga Ora’s Chair had already explained why last year:"We're not building to sell, so we'll be ...
Stuff’s Political Editor Luke Malpass - A Fellow at New Zealand IniativeLast week I half-joked that Stuff / The Post’s Luke Malpass1 always sounded like he was auditioning for a job at the New Zealand Initiative.Mountain Tui is a reader-supported publication. For a limited time, subscriptions are 20% off. Thanks ...
At a funeral on Friday, there were A4-sized photos covering every wall of the Dil’s reception lounge. There must have been 200 of them, telling the story in the usual way of the video reel but also, by enlargement, making it more possible to linger and step in.Our friend Nicky ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park from the Gigafact team in collaboration with members from our team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is methane the ...
The Government’s idea is that the private sector and Community Housing Providers will fund, build and operate new affordable housing to address our housing crisis. Meanwhile, the Government does not know where almost half of the 1,700 children who left emergency housing actually went. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong ...
Oh, home, let me come homeHome is wherever I'm with youOh, home, let me come homeHome is wherever I'm with youSongwriters: Alexander Ebert / Jade Allyson CastrinosMorena,I’m on a tight time frame this morning. In about an hour and a half, I’ll need to pack up and hit the road ...
This is a post about the Mountain Tui substack, and small tweaks - further to the poll and request post the other day. Please don’t read if you aren’t interested in my personal matters. Thank you all.After oohing-and-aahing about how to structure the Substack model since November, including obtaining ...
This transcript of a recent conversation between the Prime Minister and his chief economic adviser has not been verified.We’ve announced we are the ‘Yes Government’. Do you like it?Yes, Prime Minister.Dreamed up by the PR team. It’s about being committed to growth. Not that the PR team know anything about ...
The other day, Australian Senator Nick McKim issued a warning in the Australian Parliement about the US’s descent into fascim.And of course it’s true, but I lament - that was true as soon as Trump won.What we see is now simply the reification of the intention, planning, and forces behind ...
Among the many other problems associated with Musk/DOGE sending a fleet of teenage and twenty-something cultists to remove, copy and appropriate federal records like social security, medicaid and other supposedly protected data is the fact that the youngsters doing the data-removal, copying and security protocol and filter code over-writing have ...
Jokerman dance to the nightingale tuneBird fly high by the light of the moonOh, oh, oh, JokermanSong by Bob Dylan.Morena folks, I hope this fine morning of the 7th of February finds you well. We're still close to Paihia, just a short drive out of town. Below is the view ...
It’s been an eventful week as always, so here’s a few things that we have found interesting. We also hope everyone had a happy and relaxing Waitangi Day! This week in Greater Auckland We’re still running on summer time, but provided two chewy posts: On Tuesday, a guest ...
Queuing on Queen St: the Government is set to announce another apparently splashy growth policy on Sunday of offering residence visas to wealthy migrants. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Friday, February 7:PM Christopher ...
The fact that Waitangi ended up being such a low-key affair may mark it out as one of the most significant Waitangi Days in recent years. A group of women draped in “Toitu Te Tiriti” banners who turned their backs on the politicians’ powhiri was about as rough as it ...
Hi,This week’s Flightless Bird episode was about “fake seizure guy” — a Melbourne man who fakes seizures in order to get members of the public to sit on him.The audio documentary (which I have included in this newsletter in case you don’t listen to Flightless Bird) built on reporting first ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Karin Kirk The 119th Congress comes with a price tag. The oil and gas industry gave about $24 million in campaign contributions to the members of the U.S. House and Senate expected to be sworn in January 3, 2025, according to a ...
Early morning, the shadows still long, but you can already feel the warmth building. Our motel was across the road from the historic homestead where Henry Williams' family lived. The evening before, we wandered around the gardens, reading the plaques and enjoying the close proximity to the history of the ...
Thanks folks for your feedback, votes and comments this week. I’ll be making the changes soon. Appreciate all your emails, comments and subscriptions too. I know your time is valuable - muchas gracias.A lot is happening both here and around the world - so I want to provide a snippets ...
Data released today by Statistics NZ shows that unemployment rose to 5.1%, with 33,000 more people out of work than last year said NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi Economist Craig Renney. “The latest data shows that employment fell in Aotearoa at its fastest rate since the GFC. Unemployment rose in 8 ...
The December labour market statistics have been released, showing yet another increase in unemployment. There are now 156,000 unemployed - 34,000 more than when National took office. And having thrown all these people out of work, National is doubling down on cruelty. Because being vicious will somehow magically create the ...
Boarded up homes in Kilbirnie, where work on a planned development was halted. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, February 5 are;Housing Minister Chris Bishop yesterday announcedKāinga Ora would be stripped of ...
This week Kiwirail and Auckland Transport were celebrating the completion of the summer rail works that had the network shut or for over a month and the start of electric trains to Pukekohe. First up, here’s parts of the press release about the shutdown works. Passengers boarding trains in Auckland ...
Through its austerity measures, the coalition government has engineered a rise in unemployment in order to reduce inflation while – simultaneously – cracking down harder and harder on the people thrown out of work by its own policies. To that end, Social Development Minister Louise Upston this week added two ...
This year, we've seen a radical, white supremacist government ignoring its Tiriti obligations, refusing to consult with Māori, and even trying to legislatively abrogate te Tiriti o Waitangi. When it was criticised by the Waitangi Tribunal, the government sabotaged that body, replacing its legal and historical experts with corporate shills, ...
Poor old democracy, it really is in a sorry state. It would be easy to put all the blame on the vandals and tyrants presently trashing the White House, but this has been years in the making. It begins with Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan and the spirit of Gordon ...
The new school lunches came in this week, and they were absolutely scrumptious.I had some, and even though Connor said his tasted like “stodge” and gave him a sore tummy, I myself loved it!Look at the photos - I knew Mr Seymour wouldn’t lie when he told us last year:"It ...
The tighter sanctions are modelled on ones used in Britain, which did push people off ‘the dole’, but didn’t increase the number of workers, and which evidence has repeatedly shown don’t work. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, ...
Catching you up on the morning’s global news and a quick look at the parallels -GLOBALTariffs are backSharemarkets in the US, UK and Europe have “plunged” in response to Trump’s tariffs. And while Mexico has won a one month reprieve, Canada and China will see their respective 25% and 10% ...
This post by Nicolas Reid was originally published on Linked in. It is republished here with permission. Gondolas are often in the news, with manufacturers of ropeway systems proposing them as a modern option for mass transit systems in New Zealand. However, like every next big thing in transport, it’s hard ...
This is a re-post from The Climate BrinkBoth 2023 and 2024 were exceptionally warm years, at just below and above 1.5C relative to preindustrial in the WMO composite of surface temperature records, respectively. While we are still working to assess the full set of drivers of this warmth, it is clear that ...
Hi,I woke up feeling nervous this morning, realising that this weekend Flightless Bird is going to do it’s first ever live show. We’re heading to a sold out (!) show in Seattle to test the format out in front of an audience. If it works, we’ll do more. I want ...
From the United-For-Now States of America comes the thrilling news that a New Zealander may be at the very heart of the current coup. Punching above our weight on the world stage once more! Wait, you may be asking, what New Zealander? I speak of Peter Thiel, made street legal ...
Even Stevens: Over the 33 years between 1990 and 2023 (and allowing for the aberrant 2020 result) the average level of support enjoyed by the Left and Right blocs, at roughly 44.5 percent each, turns out to be, as near as dammit, identical.WORLDWIDE, THE PARTIES of the Left are presented ...
Back in 2023, a "prominent political figure" went on trial for historic sex offences. But we weren't allowed to know who they were or what political party they were "prominent" in, because it might affect the way we voted. At the time, I said that this was untenable; it was ...
I'm going, I'm goingWhere the water tastes like wineI'm going where the water tastes like wineWe can jump in the waterStay drunk all the timeI'm gonna leave this city, got to get awayI'm gonna leave this city, got to get awayAll this fussing and fighting, man, you know I sure ...
Waitangi Day is a time to honour Te Tiriti o Waitangi and stand together for a just and fair Aotearoa. Across the motu, communities are gathering to reflect, kōrero, and take action for a future built on equity and tino rangatiratanga. From dawn ceremonies to whānau-friendly events, there are ...
Subscribe to Mountain Tūī ! Where you too can learn about exciting things from a flying bird! Tweet.Yes - I absolutely suck at marketing. It’s a fact.But first -My question to all readers is:How should I set up the Substack model?It’s been something I’ve been meaning to ask since November ...
Here’s the key news, commentary, reports and debate around Aotearoa’s political economy on politics and in the week to Feb 3:PM Christopher Luxon began 2025’s first day of Parliament last Tuesday by carrying on where left off in 2024, letting National’s junior coalition partner set the political agenda and dragging ...
The PSA have released a survey of 4000 public service workers showing that budget cuts are taking a toll on the wellbeing of public servants and risking the delivery of essential services to New Zealanders. Economists predict that figures released this week will show continued increases in unemployment, potentially reaching ...
The Prime Minister’s speech 10 days or so ago kicked off a flurry of commentary. No one much anywhere near the mainstream (ie excluding Greens supporters) questioned the rhetoric. New Zealand has done woefully poorly on productivity for a long time and we really need better outcomes, and the sorts ...
President Trump on the day he announced tariffs against Mexico, Canada and China, unleashing a shock to supply chains globally that is expected to slow economic growth and increase inflation for most large economies. Photo: Getty ImagesLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate ...
Photo by Towfiqu barbhuiya on UnsplashHere’s what we’re watching in the week to February 9 and beyond in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty:Monday, February 3Politics: New Zealand Government cabinet meeting usually held early afternoon with post-cabinet news conference possible at 4 pm, although they have not been ...
Trump being Trump, it won’t come as a shock to find that he regards a strong US currency (bolstered by high tariffs on everything made by foreigners) as a sign of America’s virility, and its ability to kick sand in the face of the world. Reality is a tad more ...
A listing of 24 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, January 26, 2025 thru Sat, February 1, 2025. This week's roundup is again published soleley by category. We are still interested in feedback to hone the categorization, so if ...
What seems to be the common theme in the US, NZ, Argentina and places like Italy under their respective rightwing governments is what I think of as “the politics of cruelty.” Hate-mongering, callous indifference in social policy-making, corporate toadying, political bullying, intimidation and punching down on the most vulnerable with ...
If you are confused, check with the sunCarry a compass to help you alongYour feet are going to be on the groundYour head is there to move you aroundSo, stand in the place where you liveSongwriters: Bill Berry / Michael Mills / Michael Stipe / Peter Buck.Hot in the CityYesterday, ...
Shane Jones announced today he would be contracting out his thinking to a smarter younger person.Reclining on his chaise longue with a mouth full of oysters and Kina he told reporters:Clearly I have become a has-been, a palimpsest, an epigone, a bloviating fossil. I find myself saying such things as: ...
Warning: This post contains references to sexual assaultOn Saturday, I spent far too long editing a video on Tim Jago, the ACT Party President and criminal, who has given up his fight for name suppression after 2 years. He voluntarily gave up just in time for what will be a ...
New Zealand First has today introduced a Member’s Bill which would restore decision-making power to local communities regarding the fluoridation of drinking water. The ‘Fluoridation (Referendum) Legislation Bill’ seeks to repeal the Health (Fluoridation of Drinking Water) Amendment Act 2021 that granted centralised authority to the Direct General of Health ...
New Zealand First has introduced a Member’s Bill aimed at preventing banks from refusing their services to businesses because of the current “Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) Framework”. “This Bill ensures fairness and prevents ESG standards from perpetuating woke ideology in the banking sector being driven by unelected, globalist, climate ...
Erica Stanford has reached peak shortsightedness if today’s announcement is anything to go by, picking apart immigration settings piece by piece to the detriment of the New Zealand economy. ...
Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. The intention was to establish a colony with the cession of sovereignty to the Crown, ...
Te Whatu Ora Chief Executive Margie Apa leaving her job four months early is another symptom of this government’s failure to deliver healthcare for New Zealanders. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to show leadership and be unequivocal about Aotearoa New Zealand’s opposition to a proposal by the US President to remove Palestinians from Gaza. ...
The latest unemployment figures reveal that job losses are hitting Māori and Pacific people especially hard, with Māori unemployment reaching a staggering 9.7% for the December 2024 quarter and Pasifika unemployment reaching 10.5%. ...
Waitangi 2025: Waitangi Day must be community and not politically driven - Shane Jones Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. ...
Despite being confronted every day with people in genuine need being stopped from accessing emergency housing – National still won’t commit to building more public houses. ...
The Green Party says the Government is giving up on growing the country’s public housing stock, despite overwhelming evidence that we need more affordable houses to solve the housing crisis. ...
Before any thoughts of the New Year and what lies ahead could even be contemplated, New Zealand reeled with the tragedy of Senior Sergeant Lyn Fleming losing her life. For over 38 years she had faithfully served as a front-line Police officer. Working alongside her was Senior Sergeant Adam Ramsay ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson will return to politics at Waitangi on Monday the 3rd of February where she will hold a stand up with fellow co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick. ...
Te Pāti Māori is appalled by the government's blatant mishandling of the school lunch programme. David Seymour’s ‘cost-saving’ measures have left tamariki across Aotearoa with unidentifiable meals, causing distress and outrage among parents and communities alike. “What’s the difference between providing inedible food, and providing no food at all?” Said ...
The Government is doubling down on outdated and volatile fossil fuels, showing how shortsighted and destructive their policies are for working New Zealanders. ...
Green Party MP Steve Abel this morning joined Coromandel locals in Waihi to condemn new mining plans announced by Shane Jones in the pit of the town’s Australian-owned Gold mine. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to strengthen its just-announced 2030-2035 Nationally Determined Contribution (NDC) under the Paris Agreement and address its woeful lack of commitment to climate security. ...
Today marks a historic moment for Taranaki iwi with the passing of the Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill in Parliament. "Today, we stand together as descendants of Taranaki, and our tūpuna, Taranaki Maunga, is now formally acknowledged by the law as a living tūpuna. ...
Labour is relieved to see Children’s Minister Karen Chhour has woken up to reality and reversed her government’s terrible decisions to cut funding from frontline service providers – temporarily. ...
It is the first week of David Seymour’s school lunch programme and already social media reports are circulating of revolting meals, late deliveries, and mislabelled packaging. ...
The Green Party says that with no-cause evictions returning from today, the move to allow landlords to end tenancies without reason plunges renters, and particularly families who rent, into insecurity and stress. ...
The Government’s move to increase speed limits substantially on dozens of stretches of rural and often undivided highways will result in more serious harm. ...
In her first announcement as Economic Growth Minister, Nicola Willis chose to loosen restrictions for digital nomads from other countries, rather than focus on everyday Kiwis. ...
The Government’s commitment to get New Zealand’s roads back on track is delivering strong results, with around 98 per cent of potholes on state highways repaired within 24 hours of identification every month since targets were introduced, Transport Minister Chris Bishop says. “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is ...
The former Cadbury factory will be the site of the Inpatient Building for the new Dunedin Hospital and Health Minister Simeon Brown says actions have been taken to get the cost overruns under control. “Today I am giving the people of Dunedin certainty that we will build the new Dunedin ...
From today, Plunket in Whāngarei will be offering childhood immunisations – the first of up to 27 sites nationwide, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. The investment of $1 million into the pilot, announced in October 2024, was made possible due to the Government’s record $16.68 billion investment in health. It ...
New Zealand’s strong commitment to the rights of disabled people has continued with the response to an important United Nations report, Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston has announced. Of the 63 concluding observations of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD), 47 will be progressed ...
Resources Minister Shane Jones has launched New Zealand’s national Minerals Strategy and Critical Minerals List, documents that lay a strategic and enduring path for the mineral sector, with the aim of doubling exports to $3 billion by 2035. Mr Jones released the documents, which present the Coalition Government’s transformative vision ...
Firstly I want to thank OceanaGold for hosting our event today. Your operation at Waihi is impressive. I want to acknowledge local MP Scott Simpson, local government dignitaries, community stakeholders and all of you who have gathered here today. It’s a privilege to welcome you to the launch of the ...
Racing Minister, Winston Peters has announced the Government is preparing public consultation on GST policy proposals which would make the New Zealand racing industry more competitive. “The racing industry makes an important economic contribution. New Zealand thoroughbreds are in demand overseas as racehorses and for breeding. The domestic thoroughbred industry ...
Business confidence remains very high and shows the economy is on track to improve, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis says. “The latest ANZ Business Outlook survey, released yesterday, shows business confidence and expected own activity are ‘still both very high’.” The survey reports business confidence fell eight points to +54 ...
Enabling works have begun this week on an expanded radiology unit at Hawke’s Bay Fallen Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital which will double CT scanning capacity in Hawke’s Bay to ensure more locals can benefit from access to timely, quality healthcare, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. This investment of $29.3m in the ...
The Government has today announced New Zealand’s second international climate target under the Paris Agreement, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand will reduce emissions by 51 to 55 per cent compared to 2005 levels, by 2035. “We have worked hard to set a target that is both ambitious ...
Nine years of negotiations between the Crown and iwi of Taranaki have concluded following Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/the Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its third reading in Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “This Bill addresses the historical grievances endured by the eight iwi ...
As schools start back for 2025, there will be a relentless focus on teaching the basics brilliantly so all Kiwi kids grow up with the knowledge, skills and competencies needed to grow the New Zealand of the future, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “A world-leading education system is a key ...
Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson have welcomed Kāinga Ora’s decision to re-open its tender for carpets to allow wool carpet suppliers to bid. “In 2024 Kāinga Ora issued requests for tender (RFTs) seeking bids from suppliers to carpet their properties,” Mr Bishop says. “As part ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today visited Otahuhu College where the new school lunch programme has served up healthy lunches to students in the first days of the school year. “As schools open in 2025, the programme will deliver nutritious meals to around 242,000 students, every school day. On ...
Minister for Children Karen Chhour has intervened in Oranga Tamariki’s review of social service provider contracts to ensure Barnardos can continue to deliver its 0800 What’s Up hotline. “When I found out about the potential impact to this service, I asked Oranga Tamariki for an explanation. Based on the information ...
A bill to make revenue collection on imported and exported goods fairer and more effective had its first reading in Parliament, Customs Minister Casey Costello said today. “The Customs (Levies and Other Matters) Amendment Bill modernises the way in which Customs can recover the costs of services that are needed ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Department of Internal Affairs [the Department] has achieved significant progress in completing applications for New Zealand citizenship. “December 2024 saw the Department complete 5,661 citizenship applications, the most for any month in 2024. This is a 54 per cent increase compared ...
Reversals to Labour’s blanket speed limit reductions begin tonight and will be in place by 1 July, says Minister of Transport Chris Bishop. “The previous government was obsessed with slowing New Zealanders down by imposing illogical and untargeted speed limit reductions on state highways and local roads. “National campaigned on ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has announced Budget 2025 – the Growth Budget - will be delivered on Thursday 22 May. “This year’s Budget will drive forward the Government’s plan to grow our economy to improve the incomes of New Zealanders now and in the years ahead. “Budget 2025 will build ...
For the Government, 2025 will bring a relentless focus on unleashing the growth we need to lift incomes, strengthen local businesses and create opportunity. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today laid out the Government’s growth agenda in his Statement to Parliament. “Just over a year ago this Government was elected by ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour welcomes students back to school with a call to raise attendance from last year. “The Government encourages all students to attend school every day because there is a clear connection between being present at school and setting yourself up for a bright future,” says Mr ...
The Government is relaxing visitor visa requirements to allow tourists to work remotely while visiting New Zealand, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis, Immigration Minister Erica Stanford and Tourism Minister Louise Upston say. “The change is part of the Government’s plan to unlock New Zealand’s potential by shifting the country onto ...
The opening of Kāinga Ora’s development of 134 homes in Epuni, Lower Hutt will provide much-needed social housing for Hutt families, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I’ve been a strong advocate for social housing on Kāinga Ora’s Epuni site ever since the old earthquake-prone housing was demolished in 2015. I ...
Trade and Investment Minister Todd McClay will travel to Australia today for meetings with Australian Trade Minister, Senator Don Farrell, and the Australia New Zealand Leadership Forum (ANZLF). Mr McClay recently hosted Minister Farrell in Rotorua for the annual Closer Economic Relations (CER) Trade Ministers’ meeting, where ANZLF presented on ...
A new monthly podiatry clinic has been launched today in Wairoa and will bring a much-needed service closer to home for the Wairoa community, Health Minister Simeon Brown says.“Health New Zealand has been successful in securing a podiatrist until the end of June this year to meet the needs of ...
The Judicial Conduct Commissioner has recommended a Judicial Conduct Panel be established to inquire into and report on the alleged conduct of acting District Court Judge Ema Aitken in an incident last November, Attorney-General Judith Collins said today. “I referred the matter of Judge Aitken’s alleged conduct during an incident ...
Students who need extra help with maths are set to benefit from a targeted acceleration programme that will give them more confidence in the classroom, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Last year, significant numbers of students did not meet the foundational literacy and numeracy level required to gain NCEA. To ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced three new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and ...
Ki te kahore he whakakitenga, ka ngaro te Iwi – without a vision, the people will perish. The Government has achieved its target to reduce the number of households in emergency housing motels by 75 per cent five years early, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. The number of households ...
The opening of Palmerston North’s biggest social housing development will have a significant impact for whānau in need of safe, warm, dry housing, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. The minister visited the development today at North Street where a total of 50 two, three, and four-bedroom homes plus a ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced the new membership of the Public Advisory Committee on Disarmament and Arms Control (PACDAC), who will serve for a three-year term. “The Committee brings together wide-ranging expertise relevant to disarmament. We have made six new appointments to the Committee and reappointed two existing members ...
Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Kia ora, good morning, talofa, malo e lelei, bula vinaka, da jia hao, namaste, sat sri akal, assalamu alaikum. It’s so great to be here and I’m ready and pumped for 2025. Can I start by acknowledging: Simon Bridges – CEO of the Auckland ...
The Government has unveiled a bold new initiative to position New Zealand as a premier destination for foreign direct investment (FDI) that will create higher paying jobs and grow the economy. “Invest New Zealand will streamline the investment process and provide tailored support to foreign investors, to increase capital investment ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins today announced the largest reset of the New Zealand science system in more than 30 years with reforms which will boost the economy and benefit the sector. “The reforms will maximise the value of the $1.2 billion in government funding that goes into ...
Turbocharging New Zealand’s economic growth is the key to brighter days ahead for all Kiwis, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. In the Prime Minister’s State of the Nation Speech in Auckland today, Christopher Luxon laid out the path to the prosperity that will affect all aspects of New Zealanders’ lives. ...
The latest set of accounts show the Government has successfully checked the runaway growth of public spending, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. “In the previous government’s final five months in office, public spending was almost 10 per cent higher than for the same period the previous year. “That is completely ...
The Government’s welfare reforms are delivering results with the number of people moving off benefits into work increasing year-on-year for six straight months. “There are positive signs that our welfare reset and the return consequences for job seekers who don't fulfil their obligations to prepare for or find a job ...
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(this one is interesting..)
http://www.alternet.org/activism/revolution-mind-underway
“..Revolutionary changes that once seemed impossible –
– can suddenly become possible..”
phillip ure..
Another take on the marxist view of the “subjective” factor long being a major impediment to necessary revolutionary change while “objective” factors–the material bleeding obvious state of a world on the brink indicates that need.
Does our social being determine our thinking or vice versa? Luckily some people break the mold like many scientists and political activists. ‘Mortgage captives’ certainly need to wake up and join them. Societal breakdown is not that far away when you look at our road rage cities, supermarkets with 2–3 day stocks, digital banking systems etc.
Petrol stations which cannot operate pumps in a power cut.
You beat me to it Viper, read the pump article after posting. A city going ‘down’ would soon become a landlocked version of a powerless cruise liner. As Christchurch people would know well.
After years of living in the North with tanks full of rain water and seafood across the road such thoughts do surface when living in the super city. VTOs observation is what one of my farm owning mates (across water from Whangarei) always gets worried about when there is a bird flu scare or whatever. Wind, solar, water tanks and gardens are the way to go.
Know of a few people in east Chch who have built in such resilience post-earthquake… So that they can survive almost indefinitely without wider support. Of course any such people or dwellings will also be sought out by the starving hordes in such circumstances…..
“Societal breakdown is not that far away when you look at our road rage cities, supermarkets with 2–3 day stocks, digital banking systems etc.”
Yep, never has society been more fragile given the weaknesses that are inherent in most of our systems today. It will only be realised when it happens unfortunately.
Have always said that the most scary person to be in this situation would be a farmer within 50km of a major population centre – lotsa new friends arriving to eat his sheep… and fuck all he can do about it… if he values his life …..
never mind, couldn’t happen here, nah, not in nz, got a nice house, good neighbours, shiny New World down te road, gotta go to work, put out of mind, smell the roses…
You a city lad or a farming lad? You have many friends in the city who are a crack shot with a .223? Or who know how to skin and gut a deer?
Personally, I’d back the farmer, his couple of mates and the farm hand over any rabble from the city, just so you know.
Plenty – probably more per km2 than in rural areas but I don’t think it would pan out like that…. but terrible subject and unpleasant to consider anyway, sorry..
I reckon New Zealanders usually know how to work these things out between themselves for the best, anyways.
Why would the farmer defend his flock? When society has broken down like that? What would he do with them anyway? Put them on the non-existent freighter to a UK supermarche?
And if his mates are helping him then who is looking after his mates farms? Does that not leave them open?
And the description of thousands (probably tens of thousands) approaching starvation as “rabble from the city” I think misses the situation and various more unpleasant characteristics of the human bean entirely.
It is an unpleasant subject but its reality as a possibility should be considered in light of the fragility of our society…. in particular the fact that supermarkets and cities have only 2-3 days of supplies at hand.
My 2–3 days come from Civil Defence people I have talked to and that may not include panic buying by some.
Lets be optimistic though and keep on trucking for positive change as many of us Standard commenters do in real life.
Tat
Farmers now can’t cope with the determined animal thieving either dead or being trucked off. We don’t hear about it very often because our news choosers don’t bother about this sort of important information getting to the general public. I think that Scott Guy case revealed an iceberg of dirty dealings in rural areas.
You might hear it on the rural news on Radionz but because of the silo system they have it’s not so likely in the national news. That gets taken up with readings of victims statements after court cases. So emotional and caring.
Sorry no you’re wrong, well its good in theory that will happen the problem is most rabble stick together and have an inflated sense of entitlement: “you have what we want so we’ll take it”
Which means there’ll be one helluva lot of people sticking together vs very few farmers looking after a lot of land meaning it would be very difficult to defend and if you’re defending one farm what happens if another group goes to your farm…
You only need to see what happens in other countries when it all turns to crap to see what happens though I dare say a farmer near a small town will do better
I think you’re confusing ‘entitlement’ with desperation, or starvation.
The effect being that it makes your use of that word to elicit an emotional response and thereby influence opinion less effective.
Carry on
“I think you’re confusing ‘entitlement’ with desperation, or starvation.”
People with a sense of entitlement will do things differently when desperate than those without. Having a sense of entitlement isn’t necessarily a bad thing of course.
Hmmm, lots of different variables here that people are glossing over. How fast a collapse happens will be a big determiner in what happens after that. I wonder if a very fast collapse (as in, running out of supermarket food) will see most big city folk sitting tight, waiting for the authorities to sort it out, and then by the time they are starving they won’t have the energy to walk very far. The more resilient people will get out straight away. The less resilient that make it to farm land, won’t know how to catch a sheep let alone kill and find a way to eat it that doesn’t make them sick.
“You only need to see what happens in other countries when it all turns to crap to see what happens though I dare say a farmer near a small town will do better”
Where are you thinking? Because three the most immediate examples that spring to mind suggest that we might be ok. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the country people did relatively ok, it was the city people that had a hard time. In Cuba, which went through a kind of Peak Oil in a year, the general population did well. People got hungry at times, no-one starved, and the general health of the country improved. In a more acute situation, the resiliency of city communities in Iraq during the invasion was pretty impressive eg when the local authorities collapsed, the people previously employed in the power companies kept some of the electricity supply going without getting paid (for obvious reasons). The banks closed, but quickly a street level of banking started up. Humans are naturally co-operative and evolutionarily adapted to work in community. I don’t mean that terrible things wouldn’t happen (they happen already), but that it’s not a given that we would all turn into single units fighting for survival. The ‘Man Alone’ myth in NZ has a lot to answer for.
I live in the South Island and just see huge numbers of resilient and creatively skilled people, so I tend towards Tat’s view.
The more we think these things through now, and start putting practices and infrastructure in place, the better we will handle what happens. There are people in NZ have been doing this for a very long time, and now there are lots of people doing it. We need to reach a certain percentage of the population, not sure how many that is.
I also think this is geographical within NZ. I think mostly about Dunedin in terms of a big city because it’s the one I am most familiar with and it’s closest to where I live. But the issues for coastal Otago will be very different than those for say Auckland.
I don’t know why everyone is assuming all us city folk will be after the farm animals in the country come the apocalypse. I can’t remember the last time I ate any animal meat.
But I do know a lot of city/suburban folk who are pretty good fruit & veggie gardeners. I’d hang close with them and the places where water can be collected. Leave the others to fight to the death over farm animals.
It takes a long time to grow vegetable food karol. People will easily starve before they can grow a potato or apple. I think vto’s point was that in a relatively fast collapse people are going to be after the meat once the supermarkets run out.
“But I do know a lot of city/suburban folk who are pretty good fruit & veggie gardeners. I’d hang close with them and the places where water can be collected.”
When people talk about there being 3 days of food in the supermarkets, I haven’t seen the analysis of actual food country wide outside of supermarkets (as in gardens, market gardens etc), but I suspect that it’s not great. Most cultures traditionaly have relied on storing food. We don’t do that locally very well and much of it is reliant on freezing and refrigeration.
There are a couple of other issues here. One is that most (as in nearly all) of our food production relies on long distance transport. No petrol = no food. The other is that fruit and veggies don’t sustain people for very long. You need fats, protein and complex carbs too. Most vegan protein in NZ is imported (beans etc). Cheese and milk will fail pretty quickly without petrol except in small rural areas. Nuts are seasonal or locked up in storage. Lots of people will subsist for quite some time just on carbs, but where is all the wheat going to come from? (not from home gardeners). We are all very vulnerable when it comes to food, including vegetarians.
Even with a longer time frame for collapse (as in the Cuba scenario), you still need to get food production localised very quickly. I agree that there are lots of good gardeners still in NZ, but we need these skills much more widely spread within the population.
I think that people with veges might find when they get up in the morning that all the veges are out of the ground and away. Even before they are fully developed. Then what. People don’t have trouble applying linear rationality – I am hungry, they have a lot of food, my need is greater than theirs. Therefore I am entitled to help myself and take it all so we have some for later.
OK. Thanks, weka.
Then we need to be looking at longer term food production. I actually don’t think relying on sheep and cows is the answer either. I would rather we were looking at how local communities could be self-sustaining.
How difficult is it to grow the required beans and/or nuts, grains etc in NZ?
Not hard at all in technical horticultural/gardening terms karol. We already grow grains and nuts well, and the alternative people are starting to grow legumes. But getting people to grow them at a large enough scale to feed local populations, there are substantial economic and structural barriers, due to how farmers and gardeners are forced into systems that benefit capitalism, and how people are channeled into buying from supermarkets. For those that can afford to, supporting Farmers Markets, vege box schemes, CSAs, gate sales, retailers that prioritise local produce etc, is very helpful.
On the bright side, in a medium paced collapse scenario we would quickly stop exporting food we grow and be able to eat it ourselves.
Sheep and cows are important for wool and leather too, as well as diary. In Cuba they farmed animals like rabbits, and ate a lot less meat.
If we ate the whole animal (edible parts), we would need less animals, and there would be more land/resources for growing other kinds of foods.
If there was a world problem and we couldn’t get the food we need we might still have to export food that we need here, because of the contracts that were set up to supply stuff to others. And they would say they need it too.
I live among-st plenty….plenty for me to feed myself anyway. But it would not be if I had to share with the rest of Wellington. And even if we did a Cuba how many of us would have the skills? Maybe we should reprogram ourselves historically: plague, famine disease are only (in a historic sense) banned from our expectations. They are merely resting in the antechamber awaiting to re-enter the door.
How much plague, famine and disease did pre-European NZ experience?
Everyone has skills. Not everyone has to grow food, lots of other things that need to be done too. Learning how to trade equitably will be a big community-wide need.
I’m wondering how many Ann Rand deciples would suddenly become “eaters” and have to rely on those of us that have the knowledge to grow food, raise and butcher animals, husband bees etc
Climate Change + War, Starvation, Poverty, Flooding, and Disease
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/international-politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503226&objectid=11150809
-world-wide fall in incomes
-a more violent, diseased, poorer future.
IPCC
Oh, Mother Earth,
With your fields of green
Once more laid down
by the hungry hand
How long can you
give and not receive
And feed this world
ruled by greed
Inspiration Green.
Patrick Gower @patrickgowernz 19h
Labour has introduced a female quota system that will see men demoted down the party list at expense of females
How is it that a leading news organisation can have such a biased political editor? I kind of know the answer to that question but it still astounds me.
He’s the Sean Hannity of New Zealand
No one in NZ is as bad as Hannity. Not even close.
The Alfred.E. Nuemann of political reporting Gower, TV3 and Media-Works in a free society are obviously free to broadcast,(subject to complaints) whatever they like which would seem to include out-right lies as ‘The News’,
What tho worries me is that TV3 and Media-Works gain funding from the State via NZ on Air which is said to be the difference between those entities remaining solvent or not,(this in my mind imparts to Media-Works a duty to report political matters in a fair and balanced manner),
i will suggest again that an incoming Government of the left ensure that all NZ on Air funding for this organization be stopped, if the organization wants to be one that favors the political right over the political left then they should be made to fund their own political broadcasts…
I suppose we can say that John Campbell provides some sort of balance because the issues he reports on are more likely to be taken seriously by the left.
As far as the gender issue goes, I thought a political editor might be able to put it in a broader context by looking at other countries who aim for 50% representation by women. It’s not as if these policies came down in the last shower. Norway?
“I suppose we can say that John Campbell provides some sort of balance” – you could say that, but its missing the point a bit
its not the campbell and gower balance each other out (which they dont) – its that gower actively practices spin, fabrication and generally interviews his own opinion instead of anything even vaguely like journalism.
Im no JC fan boy, and sometimes i find campbell live misses the mark – but hes far more of a journalist compared to “i just made some shit up” gower
Its not so much left vs right – its journalism vs made up bullshit
We should not worry quite so hard. Labour stories are dominating the airwaves like they haven’t for years.
The gender story is immensely softened and will play well in the longer term next year.
The insurance story will run and run.
And the housing and Christchurch rebuild stories are money for jam.
The MSM have so few factional fight stories now that they have to argue about policy. This is a massive shift. We are gonig to torn Paddy and the rest into policy wonks.
The only trick left is to frame policy into stories that bounce right. That’s a job for the media team in the Leaders’ office.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/
O’rly?
The Man Ban will be such an albatross around the neck of labour, face facts the election is already lost.
Best of luck with that.
We know where our votes come from.
Honestly, I know you guys don’t see it or refuse to see it.
But the Man ban is just like the anti smacking, light bubs, shower head stuff that destroyed the last Labour government.
This shit is voter poison on steroids, Key must be walking around today with a grin a mile wide.
That would make a change from the tired, bored, and slightly cranky look he’s had on his face for most of this year’s media conferences.
BM – Oh yeah, all these things are waaaay worse than the wholesale spying Key has sold us to.
Really BM so why are you the only one going on about a so called man Ban?
Well I’ll go on about it too. Choosing MPs by gender or sexual orientation or any other category is an extremely stupid thing for Labour to do. Go on, have a separate article about this and invite comments and a vote, I dare The Standard. As an LEC member I have participated in the choice of candidates for the Labour list (and also the Green list). Members should choose the best people for the job.
If the election is already lost, then your work here is done, BM. Come back again in 12 months and let’s see how that plays out, eh?
ps, can I suggest that hysterical use of the phrase ‘man ban’ and claiming that its electoral poison falls in to the category of ‘panicdotal evidence’?
I see they are going to cancel Nightline, and put on Paul Henry. Talk about dumbing down.
They cancelled Sainso and put on that shit that attempts to be TV, so your point is?
Bad12 You have never stated whether you have lived and worked in a country whereby the state controls the media by ownership or by fear. I don’t mean travelling or viewing their media from the outside but living their on a daily basis for a reasonable period – f.. even the sports comments were controlled. In my case I am not referring to the UK/Aus/US type of countries
Your comments raises two points:
1. The next step from funding control is editorship – there is nothing for free.
2. If we accept your idea then the flip side is that the right can also impend this policy when they return to office with one subtle change. I guess BM would have Campbell cancelled within a week.
The problem with living in a democracy is the Bad12 see the media favouring the political right while BM and his mates see the media as the voice of the political left. It just a view & if the government interferes in the media we no longer have a democracy. It either funding for both sides or no-one.
Sorry Bad12 you write some good stuff at times but not this one.
Yes, he would be cancelled………………………Permanently.
Patrick, is that you Patrick…
Gower is absolutely obsessed with this issue. I wonder why? Is he a closet transgender? Does he dress up in women’s clothes when he is at home? Why on earth does it get him so excited? He carries on like it is the biggest scandal since Watergate, when the rest the country doesn’t give a toss.
Hmm, he can’t be a trans-National presstitute ?!
Gower is a disgrace.
We can debate the pro’s and con’s of the State establishing and owning an insurance company ad nauseum, probably in terms of today’s political landscape point to such a policy as a radical departure from the Neo-liberal norm which it obvious is if you have no knowledge of the 1970’s the peak years for Government ‘ownership’ of all sorts of business,
What of the politics tho, 2 weeks befor David Cunliffe’s Conference announcement Winston Peters came out of the NZFirst Conference loudly proclaiming ‘the bottom line’ for any Party seeking the support of NZFirst after the 2014 election would be that very same thing, the establishment and ownership of an insurance company by the Government,
Labour and David Cunliffe could hardly have failed to have noticed that except for the name, where a comic might suggest Labour have inserted an ass into the policy, the policy, Winston’s bottom line, are the same,
The political signal???, on the surface we have the makings of a coalition arrangement between Labour and NZFirst after November 2014 that has little in the way of impediment bar the number of Cabinet positions needed to keep NZFirst intact and reasonably happy,
Of course if we were to see a conspiracy around every ballot box we might begin to suspect that David Cunliffe in a cunning move has reached out a large hand to NZFirst voters with the question, ‘why vote for the insurance company offered by the sMall party when you can vote for exactly the same from the bigger party’, after all on the current numbers,(as i see them), if Labour can reach across and half inch a small part of NZFirst’s voting support effectively leaving that Party below the 5% thresh-hold this would guarantee, in the carve up of the remaining NZFirst vote when the election night numbers are crunched, a Labour/Green Government,
Of course there is also another scenario where ‘the plan’ is to present after 2014 a Labour/NZFirst bloc to the Green Party attempting to formulate a coalition with the Green Party giving ‘confidence and supply’ similar i might add as the cozy arrangement of the previous Labour Government…
Solution…vote Green to keep Labour honest.
The options need to be kept open at this stage in case numbers change of the minor parties in the next 12 months. Who knows maybe the Greens and NZFirst will have to figure out how to work together if they want power.
Pretty sure the greens can work with Winston as long as he doesn’t act like a complete fuckwit.
Certainly you can count on Winston to change his mind. Also helpful to see Norman fold like origami on printing money. 😉
Perhaps agreement won’t be as hard as one imagines.
Fold???, pragmatic politics from Russell Norman once He realized Labour had no stomach for engaging in what is now mainstream economic practice by a number of major economies,
Nationals 80 billion dollar debt mountain simply hamstrings the following Government forcing that Government to raise taxes or ‘do nothing’ thus leading it away from longevity,
National and Labour’s borrowing intentions simply leads to the impoverishment of the next generation to pay for the comfortable lifestyle of today and/or the injection of the IMF into the country running our economic and social policy…
Fold. Like origami.
You’re too easy to tease.
The Greens need to get back into the ring.
Correct. The Greens had 20 months of relatively easy training and looking good. Now its time for them to step up to the 2014 championship fight.
National is already gearing up, big time.
Norman should have stuck to his guns for a little bit longer to make the point – the NZ Government has a monopoly on the creation of NZ Dollars. It can do so whenever it likes, in order to move real resources and people where they need to be.
Ad, stupid comment of the day, who carried the Opposition fight to National scoring the hits while David Shearer tried to learn how to string more than 6 words of the English language together as one coherent sentence…
RN knows how the monetary system works, knows that it really needs to be changed and knows that Labour won’t do a damn thing to change it.
QFT
The government should never borrow money as it is sovereign and thus can print all the money it needs. Along side this the government needs to stop the private banks from creating money.
It’s not about printing money as much as who should do it: http://blog.greens.org.nz/2013/05/27/private-money-printing-takes-off-again/
At the time Dr Norman floated the idea it would have performed three key positives;
1. Kick started inflation which was below the reserve banks target (was abour 0.1% iirc),
2. Helped stabilise the exchange rate, and potentially saved a significant portion of the 40k manufacturing jobs that went to the wall over the last 18 months
3. Resulted in a much lower govt debt that will now have to be paid back via taxes.
It was dropped because conditions started to change (inflation started to rise, and the govt borrowed the money – that someone else printed).
And it became politically untenable; an effective tool trashed so a cheap political point could be scored by national.
+1
National have much to answer for in their trashing of our economy. Actually, so does Labour as they’ve not been doing enough to highlight just how National have been trashing it and they’re not going to make the necessary changes to bring it back into balance.
Yes, looking at the relevant policy positions on a lot of the economic stuff to me is like looking at ‘the Generation Gap’, both the Green Party and NZFirst are saying much the same thing while perhaps proposing to arrive at the same objective by differing means…
Well make him Foreign Minister again he was very good in that job last time. It would also keep him traveling as well.
I thought NZ First’s bottom-line policy was a government-run KiwiSaver scheme…
Though I do know that a publicly owned insurance company was also one of their policies. Both of them are good ideas.
How on earth will Cunliffe built 10,000 houses in Christchurch in 4 years?
It is not possible.
simply
not
possible
and raises questions around his credibility if he goes around promising silly shit like that..
Problem with Cunliffe is that he believes his own bull shit and that makes him a very dangerous man.
Better than people believing Key’s own bullshit when you can tell he doesnt with those deadpan eyes
Ok, the Natz’ Sesame Street word-for-the-day is “dangerous”. This comes after a few that have been tossed off such as “extreme narcissist” , “over the top”, “slight smugness”, etc.
Surprisingly the polls are saying that more and more of New Zealand do as well.
See you in November and weep into your beer.
“Problem with Cunliffe is that he believes his own bull shit and that makes him a very dangerous man.”
Wait, I thought he was a two faced prick who said anything?
“two faced … anything”
I thought John Key’s supposed blind trust bought that one already for his political epitaph. Or is he wanting to sell his stake on that down to 49% ?
The Blind Trust is an Age Old Ruse
Problem with BM is that he believes his own bull shit and that makes him a very
destructive, conniving man.
Labour’s policy with KiwiBuild has been 100,000 houses in 10 years. I suppose Labour thought that 25% of those builds around ChCh could be done.
I think the policy is bold and should be aimed at with all resources. But some tempering of enthusiasm with reality should probably take place. 2,500 extra houses per year in Chch in its current state by a new entrant is pretty mind-boggling. If they can do it then they should but I seriously fail to see how on many various fronts confronting such an effort.
It will require a big ramp up, and also IMO, the re-establishment of the Department of Public Works.
Sure, but the ramp up is not possible imo. That is 10 houses each and every working day. If you start putting some actual numbers and people and materials against it and compare it to current levels of activity and shortages the problem becomes very clear. Not possible.
But as Donald Trump says in the first line of his first book – if you are going to bother thinking at all then you may as well think big…
These are the sorts of numbers of houses we’re going to be needing to get the city back up on it’s feet anyway.
I do wonder where they’re all going to go, though. Wigram Skies development is 1,600 houses and around 1,000 at Aidanfield.
Aidanfield started in 2002 and section sales are just winding up now (with an obvious boost post-earthquake), Wigram Skies will be going for another 5-6 years before it’s all built.
Well, my hope would be for medium and high density houses in the city centre(s).
Labour during the Kirk years were building 4000 State Houses a year, admittedly not in the one city…
We have to decide as a society how important this is for the nation and for the people of Christchurch.
God forbid we consider what we did in the old days of the war – materials and fuel were strictly rationed so that everything possible was directed into the nation’s efforts. Factories and workshops were re-tasked on manufacturing and processing key products seen as critical.
Realistically, it would start off being 2-3 houses/day, then by the last year be at a rate of 20 houses completed per day.
(Bearing in mind that each house will still take several weeks to build, but once in the production pipeline…)
Exactly Tat. Run it like there’s a crisis of that scale …. hmmm call it a city-destroying earthquake type crisis … use the powers the state already has to accelerate things.
vto
Don’t talk the housing plan down before its even started. It will be big and worthwhile even if the target isn’t met. And you in your spare time can keep an eye on it.
You are in Christchurch aren’t you? Keep up the pressure on the Dept send reports to The Standard, and keep them reds up to the mark. First catch your election, then simmer for a year, then bring to the boil. Voila – c’est si bon (that could be for some in Akaroa), kapai!
yes greywarbler we are in Chch most of the time and right in the heart of quake zone, rebuild, insurance, red zone, green zone, everything everything…. that is why I doubt the ability to implement the policy. I see and work in that sector right now and see the constraints referred to.
But give it a crack by all means. Go hard and think big. Lordy knows NZ is overdue for some change in the way things are attended to…
The policy will be one enormous herculean effort that is for sure. If it gets pulled off then I will be the first to applaud.
A better way to get into it though may be to prepare the first, say 200, homes so they can start within weeks of election, with a plan of action to bring the balance up to speed with urgency. That would require a small team of people to be working on this from right now. Is there such a team working on it? Working on anything to do with implementing the policy? Right now? curious …..
vto
Like your thinking. There’s life with you around, and others like you, so there’s hope too.
Gerry is the Big Man down there? What’s he doing for the little people outside
the CBD? So far outside they have seemed invisible. Caravans as temporary accommodation? I understand that one park has been taken over for quarters for all these builders that are going to be doing good stuff. Riccarton I think it was.
But that means that there are less places for the displaced Easties.
With all the building happening in Christchurch, it’s a opportunity for a lot of apprentices; builders, plumbers, electricians etc.
Is that happening, or are they just importing tradesmen and scrounging labourers where they can?
There’s some very good prefabricated homes out there.
i think you will find that the next Labour/Green/NZFirst Government will ‘explain’ the 2500 houses built in the Christchurch area as the ‘sum total’ of all houses built including by private owners,
i wonder just how many homes are involved in the other ‘leg’ of Labour’s plans for Christchurch housing, 100’s???, 1000’s, there’s probably as David Cunliffe said on National Radio this morning one hell of a lot of quite decent housing in ‘the red zone’ that with minimal repair will make a great addition to the States housing stocks,
As cheap as cheese as well, some of these houses are apparently fit to live in now, their only problem being that they are in the red zone and i would assume Government would have to provide some monies to the Christchurch Council so as to restore sewerage and water facilities,
i can tho hear Brownlee right now thinking ”oh no you don’t” and getting ready to send in the demolition crews…
“i think you will find that the next Labour/Green/NZFirst Government will ‘explain’ the 2500 houses built in the Christchurch area as the ‘sum total’ of all houses built including by private owners,”
They are promising 2,500 “affordable” houses per year, so they can’t simply count all existing private construction because a lot of this won’t be affordable. The media are also reporting that the plan is apparently to sell the houses to first-home buyers only, which again means they can’t simply count all private construction as being part of the plan.
Talked to Carter Holt or Fletchers recently about modular homes?
In fact checked the number of multi-unit consents either confirmed or underway in Auckland right now?
TransportBlog has been making a feature of just the approved ones ready for construction over the last month.
Check it out.
Aha, and that is what Phil Twyford has made reference to, if you have a factory,or any number of them, you can churn out ‘flat pack’ or totally constructed housing like they turn out cars from an assembly line,
There is not the need for 2 or 3 builders per house construction, labourers can assemble all the various components in the factory overseen by a qualified builder, factories need not run one shift per day, 3 shifts 24 hours a day will churn out 3 times the housing,
Some of the totally factory assembled housing which is then trucked to it’s site i have seen online is quite modern ‘flash’ housing…
It’s quite odd to see a fully fitted bathroom complete with sockets craned into the side of a house. Think Ikea on steroids.
German firms have been doing the high-end versions for many years. In fact I was contemplating engaging them for the Wanaka house.
And if they are clever, while the components of the actual houses are constructed in the factories any number of labouring crews can be putting in the foundations, footpaths and gardens…
There are a few youtubes up with the Chinese building 15 story hotels in under a week. Concepts such as modular design and prefab components have been in use for a very long time. The Koreans helped take over the tanker building industry using those ideas.
Of course it is, the late Barry Beazly saw the possibilities when he and his father modelled their franchise on the tract housing they’d seen in the US where, between 1947 and 1951, in just one municipality 17,447 homes were built by Levitt and Sons.
I think vto means not possible in this time and place and society. I’m not sure. Theoretically it could be done, but realistically?
Yes that is what I mean weka. I don’t think it can be done even in theory. Perhaps with pre-fabrication from afar as others have pointed out.
There are only so many people in Christchurch fixing the place up and they all have their hands full at the moment – and for the foreseeable future.
During the sixties Beazley pre-cut and shipped more than 40 house kits a week to their franchisees.
Little Boxes :Tick Tack Toe
they don’t have to be ‘tacky little boxes’..
..current-models/options are very very cool..
..and i dived into my archives..
..and found this video..
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/architecture-design-blog/video/2013/aug/16/richard-rogers-timelapse-house-build-video
..a flat-pack three story ‘green’ house..
..assembled in one day..
..phillip ure
Of course it’s possible. It really just comes down to ensuring that a couple of thousand builders from outside Canterbury live there for a couple of years and then go back to their home.
Yeah, because the only thing you need to build thousands of houses is builders /sarc.
Sorry DtB, but it’s just not as simple as that. There are also issues of where the builders come from and the effect that that has on their home communities.
Organising the builders is the hard part as it’s actual people and their lives you’re dealing with. The materials are easy.
NZ used to do this kind of thing all the time, with hydro towns, etc. People only think its hard because for 30 years we’ve been conditioned to believe that NZ could no longer perform major nation building.
Yep. We have the capabilities but we’ve been conditioned to believe that we don’t.
Or more correctly we have to recreate the situation where this would be possible. In this sense I think vto is right. It’s not just a matter of building x houses in x years. It’s about all the things that are needed to make that happen beyond the hammers and timber.
My non-builder dad and his builder mate built the first house my parents lived in. It’s a different story today because of the changes to the building act post-leaking buildings, and because consent processes are extremely time and money consuming now. It really is a different world. Plus what’s been mentioned about the change in culture.
Two things:
1.) A council can, and does, do more than one consent at a time
2.) A while back there was talk about consenting designs. In other words, a house built to that design could be built anywhere in the country without the design needing to be re-consented. All that would need to be done would be the foundations for the specific section thus speeding up the process. Don’t know if this actually went through but it seems reasonable.
That’s exactly what it’s all about. Yes, it’s going to take some organisation and planning but it can be done and it can be done by government faster and better than it can be done by “the market”.
I do enjoy Draco’s “Just so…” stories.
Transportables DtB, during it’s heyday the Mount Maunganui yard building homes for the Tokaanu and later the Huntly scheme was shipping five to seven completed homes a week.
Why, John Key stated this morning that National are building over 20,000 houses already , so where are they? On Planet Key?
Audio of Key saying that here at 6:10:
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/AUDIO-PM-John-Key-slams-Labours-insurance-plans/tabid/506/articleID/38752/Default.aspx
Did you hear about the film Son of an Art Dealer. It’s about an isolated guy who has priceless paintings by old masters shut away in dark rooms to preserve them. He received them from his father who was an art dealer in Germany who authorities think, received them from Nazis who stole them from Jewish estates. He is a bit of a recluse, selling off an occasional one when he needs cash. But it isn’t a film, it’s true.
What a moral hazard. He thinks what is the sense of returning them as the Nazis probably killed their owners. If no-one knows then I can keep ‘my precious’ close and never be found out. If I reveal I have them then I am a marked man for notoriety and punishment. If I leave them somewhere anonymously people will be hunting for the source. Tainted objects of beauty, in a film he would die with the paintings around him, fine funerary pieces beside him, like an Egyptian dignitary. Apparently he has been found out in real life. The aftermath of war rolls on.
But now we have another event to worry about. Bill talked about Fukushima and the delicate task of moving the fuel rods. They had another 5 earthquake near there the other day. And there is always someone who talks down the dangers that need to be faced. Someone with a Three Mile Island connection. Bill’s Sunday notes about it sounded more reliable. Look up Bill in the search line up top if you want a catch up.
reasons to be nervous about fukushima..
http://www.alternet.org/environment/fukushimas-radiation-gusher-could-entire-pacific-fishery-be-tainted
“..80,000 gallons per day of radioactive water – for 942 straight days –
– dumped into the Pacific –
– and counting..”
phillip ure..
What’s this business of volunteer firefighters taking on the regular work that paid firefighting teams should do at Blenheim airport. I can’t believe at the callous way that the good nature of the volunteers is being abused. They sacrifice their personal and family time to carry out what are irregular, hopefully, safety interventions on behalf of their local area communities. But that good nature is being taken advantage of by people with the budgets to pay for the services they want.
The government, through the Defence Force personnel and equipment, used to provide a seven day service to Blenheim airport. Now, ‘because of budget constraints’ its weekdays only and I think only 8 to 5p.m So what is done – call in the volunteer fire brigade, bleed them till they’re dry.
The volunteers offer their services and join a responsible, trained, and supportive team ready to drop their own concerns to attend to the community’s serious events of destruction, injury or death. They should not have extra work dumped on them. Their management does not seem as supportive of them as I would expect. In fact there were ructions some years ago, where they were being taken advantage of.
And besides the Blenheim situation, firefighters are being loaded with the task of calls to cardiac arrests at present done by St Johns Ambulance. The reason being given is ‘if they are in the area, and able to provide more timely assistance’. I suppose this relates to ‘the golden hour’, time that can be crucial for the recovery of seriously ill patients. But I view this as a serious interference in the lives of these people, adding to the time spent on their volunteer work and away from their own responsibilities. They will have jobs, paid work, so their employers are involved also, they sacrifice time too, having to find a way to fill the gap caused by an employee firefighter’s call-out.
In the USA they have firefighters who are also ambulance workers.. I think they are two different jobs, each with its own specialised knowledge required. The firefighters, because they are given training in the care of injured persons, are now having these efficiency and cost-saving vultures load them with extra work in this field. The thin edge of the wedge? These managers co-operating with worker hours are stealing time from their lives, their work, their family, their personal time. Because they are responsible and good-natured people, it is not easy for them to refuse or even protest. But this abuse of altruism must not be allowed to continue.
Oops.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/after-rand-paul-got-caught-plagiarizing-speeches-his-website-starts-removing-speech-transcripts/
Vto we were building 10,000 more homes a year up till 2008
Technology has moved on in the building industry simple affordable homes can be built quickly.
Cooky cutter + factory built homes like in Australia where whole suburbs are built with different facades claddings colours excetera.
The capacity is available I am in the building industry .
The workforce is available theirs an oversupply of building materials in the world as well as an oversupply of trades.Just about every developed country has an oversupply of builders so no problem their like wise materials if NZ can’t make Asia can.
Well I hope you’re right and I’m wrong tricledown. Maybe we in Christchurch can’t see the wood for the trees, so to speak….
Labour loses ChCh seat, giving Key an increased majority. Voters are outraged that Key is profiteering off the ChCh earthquake and is forced into an early election.
aerobubble..
..apologies for being so slow on the uptake..
..but could you explain/fill-in the bits/events/causes inbetween those three events..?
..’loss’..’outrage’..and ‘early election’..?
..i’m not quite keeping up here..
..i’m just not ‘getting it’/how you are getting from one to the next….
..phillip ure..
I could be very wrong, parliament may have some measure that balances the vote when a bi-election takes one MP out of parliament. Since Key needs ACT and Dunne, having that extra vote (lose of ChCh MP as she went on to become Mayor).
BM Boorish Mysogynist.
National are in trouble according to Matthew Hooten they expect to loose the next election they can I’ll afford to offend half the population.
Young girls, police think one could be 13, being sexually compromised or actually raped and put on Facebook.
How come there isn’t a case to be brought against those involved under the Human Rights Act. Where is the respect for privacy and for the personal rights of the girls?
And the police have been monitoring the Facebook pages, have apparently identified some of the young men and women, and have allowed it to continue saying that they were waiting for some evidence to show up, or one of the girls to make a complaint.
It seems like collaboration almost. Not sharp action. Not getting onto Facebook to get it taken down. Apparently commercial TV3 did that, not our public protectors.
And one remembers Louise Nicholls and the macho and morals raincheck that the force has had revealed in the past and the thought, is it the same now can easily arise again. Don’t the police care about their reputation? I would expect them to be very sensitive and anxious to clean up their act It really seems that sporting codes are tougher on their people and bad publicity than our Police.
been waiting for QoT to revisit the topic of R.C. after seeing articles and police positions on this charming offensive . Good old social media aye!
Yeah, its okay it seems for parents to not protect their kids from slander, and Police can sit on the case until ‘a real crime’ turns up. Sorry, but police heads should roll. Police must protect minors when parents fail to. Its clear that parents have a clear civil case of slander, that these young men cannot prove they raped or gotten drunk minors.
the cop on the telly kept saying they were waiting for one of the girls to be “brave” enough to come forward, he kept repeating that word “brave’. the fb site was brought down after the journalist got involved. the police say some of the girls were underage, then the boys got them drunk, had sex with them, then bragged about it on facebook. i cant see how this is not a crime.
aerobubble
Don’t be too hard on parents. Social science study shows that parents have less authority now against the countering messages from the various media, sexualisation of young girls etc.
The girls use their good looks etc to try and be popular with the boys. It’s very strong pressure they put on parents to let them be free, go out, stay up late, fib about where they will be.
Learning to respect and value themselves is something that is hard to teach them. They like staying out late, being ‘adult’ in their minds, never thinking that bad things will happen to them. And leave possibly indelible memories.
A child is beaten, harmed, Police can act. But what
if abuse is alledged? Police cannot act? Surely not.
Well children pictures are being posted online, with
comments that they were gotten drunk and raped.
Police cannot investigate the parents? Since the
parents have a duty of care to protect their children.
Parents have an obligation to their kids to protect
them, even against allegations of being ‘loose’,
drunk, where this is not the case. Who has the
responsibility to protect children standing in the
community if not their parents, and parents who
do not, and leave their children with potential self-harming
pressures. Pretty sure children don’t want to be
called drunken sluts. The fact that some young men
may have alledgely raped, given drink to minors and
publically humilated minors, should not stop Police
removing these children from parents for their own safety
since even the allegation is harmful to a child.
And parents have a responsibility to act to protect their
children. If young men assert online of activities that
are illegal and involve minors, and parents do not
make complaints, against slander of their children.
The civil case is a slam dunk, since these young men’s
assets can be seized and sold off to provide reparations,
as they are hardly going to prove they raped minors, gave
minors alcohol. Why should lousy lazy parents who do not
protect their children, children who will be left exposed to
potential continued harm, psychological and even repeat…
Why have Police sat on their hands for so long! Police can’t
cherry pick which offense, or which offender, especially when
a minor is incapable of laying the complaint themselves.
Its has nothing to do with it being the internet that was the
publishing forum.
minor minions 😉
“The fact that some young men may have alledgely raped,”
Aero, not quite sure what you are on about but:
1. if you say that the rapes are ‘alleged’, then why are you not insisting that the other behaviours are alleged too? eg the children needing protection.
2. why are you focussed on the parents of the victims instead of the parents of the violent offenders? Why not advocate removing the rapists from their parents as a way of solving the problem?
Sorry, but your whole comment smacks of making the victims the problem instead of the men doing the raping. And that just contributes to rape culture.
Okay, its alleged that Police have discovered a website where young men alleged they’ve given drink and had sex with minors.
As minors parents have a duty of care, I don’t see a difference between smacking a child and calling them a drunken slut, so I don’t see a difference between someone else calling them a drunken slut.
As fr the focusing but, obviously Capone was not taken to court for being a mobster but for tax fraud. Authorities cannot ignore one crime because they don’t have enough evidence for another.
And its has to be noted, you seem to not realize that a victim of crime can become the victim of that crime again, and the parents have a duty to protect. Parents can immediately bring civil proceedings against these young men, and will win since what is the defense, evidence they got minors drunk and had non-consensual sex with them?
Its going to be pretty hard for these young men to continue if they are paying civil damages and their car has been sold.
Dude, they didn’t have “non-consenual sex”, they raped them.
Parents can’t stop children from being raped. Lock children up and they just get raped at home. And the rapists outside the home just find someone else to rape. The problem here is the RAPISTS not the teenagers, or the teenagers’ parents.
“Authorities cannot ignore one crime because they don’t have enough evidence for another.”
The issue here isn’t lack of evidence. It’s the police not doing their job properly and instead buying into rape culture. RNZ has had a good overview of this at the top of their news in the last vew hours, go listen to it properly.
Suggesting that the parents prosecute civilly instead of the police prosecuting criminally just supports rape culture too. I also doubt that the women that have been raped want to be paid by their rapists. Or were you suggesting that the money go to the parents?
Seems like a civil prosecution should be brought immediately as nothing else is being done, and it does not preclude a criminal prosecution down the track.
What McFlock said below. Plus you need to realise the social context this is happening within. Many of the people around those girls, and some of the girls themselves, won’t be calling this rape yet. Aero can go on about parental responsibilities for protection, but there is a societal protection issue here too. Those young women have been left in a situation where they are being damaged. Society needs to stand up and take responsibility for this, so that as well as caretaking those teens the culture also changes.. Otherwise, even if some boys get sued, not alot will change.
A strong message needs to be sent that both protects the young women right now, but also changes how the men involved are thinking and acting.
Even if it turns out that the police can’t lay charges (which I don’t believe on the basis of what I have read so far), they could still be going into those communities and dealing with this at that level. Rape Crisis and the NZ Police could collaborate on naming rape culture and then re-educating that generation coming through. The reason the Police don’t do that is rape culture.
What I find most disturbing about this whole episode is that there is a moral malaise, a disconnection. I watched the young men on TV, it left me feeling sickened and empty. Where was the “empathy” that made your fellow person a person, and not just a material object to be used, abused and thrown aside like a cigarette butt? How can those young men grow up so lacking emotionally? What does that say about their self awareness and their visions of their own futures?
I wont comment on the Police and “rape culture”. What I will say is that the Police did not appear to have fully explored the legal avenues open to them, the line was their hands were tied without witnesses coming forward. Somebody with more legal knowledge might wish to comment on this: it appeared to me that there was a conspiracy to commit an illegal act at minimum.
People are largely a product of the family, social and urban environments that they are exposed to.
The more sociopathic we make society at large, the more sociopathic individuals are going to be.
I can’t see the politics of the situation allowing any real societal changes to be made: damage to our young people and throwing them on to the scrap heap is something which has been quite acceptable in NZ for a long period of time.
Everywhere you look in this case there are victims. Those young guys, the perps, say they were done for multiple counts of rape and put away for 10-15 years each, well they will come out after that with next to zero educational and job prospects, just lots of criminal connections from the prison. More young NZers wasted.
It’s also quite easy to say “society needs to stand up and take responsbility” but that’s very vague and anyhows it falls on to the relevant local communities and the immediate families involved more than anyone else.
Get the politicians to order the police to do it then, and provide the budget. If you think it will make any difference.
So the parents need to hire a lawyer to do the job that the police won’t, otherwise it’s the parents who are being negligent?
And, of course, hope that little jimmy mcphoto’s daddy isn’t rich enouch to hire a slew of lawyers and bankrupt them with counter-suits.
It would be pretty hard for these young men to continue to offend if the police were pressing charged, or at least saying something other than claiming not to be able to do anything without a complaint. Fucksake, they can get murder convictions without having a body, but they can’t do anything when a crime is posted on FB?
There’s a room, there’s alcohol, they have to been supplied, parents have to know where their kids are, and Police can act in case of endangerment of minors.
I would have thought that some kind of privacy charge would be an easy one to go for – not unlike some recent cases of guys getting done for filming up skirts or hiding cameras in bathrooms etc.
But someone has to lay a complaint I suppose…
If they’re doing that then it amounts to a confession of crime with intent and they should be going to jail.
The parents protecting their girls, if they are at work all day and looking after children and family all night, their girls might slip out and get into trouble. Parents aren’t able to be in three places at once.
The parents aiming to have responsible boys with standards of behaviour. What do they teach their boys about decent treatment of girls and other people. Do they see their job as just to feed them lots of meat and take them to sports games, and make sure they pass their exams. Is there any talk about personal standards, about respect for others, about not just yielding to whatever animal impulse passes through their minds?
If those parents knew their son was involved in this facebook stuff what are they doing and saying to him with anger and sorrow as to his behaviour? It’s not all about girls being foolish and losing their heads. Most girls wouldn’t think of ganging up to enjoy a boy who they are controlling. Perhaps they should, instead of being victimised and used as playthings by males abusing the girl’s very essence, her femaleness and intrinsic desire to relate to a male which drives the world and always has.
Can my comment come off moderation. Down from No.13 from 17..45 Thanks
It has been a long day. Get up at 0430 (after barely sleeping) to catch a 6am flight back to Auckland. Then off to work after a shower at home on the way through. A bit too vague to capture a transient bug with Aids to Navigation (AtoNs) that showed up on friday after I’d left for conference. Finally left a couple of devices running with logging on overnight. Headed home for some kip at 4pm….
Done.
Now the creation of dinner….
Early night tonight Iprent.
How in the hell arent these ” Roast Busters” rapists arrested for rape??? This is beyond repugnant.
It’s called ‘rape culture’ Brett.
Listen to the policeman talk about how they can’t arrest anyone because no victim has been ‘brave enough’ to make a fomal statement. That there is rape culture. that’s what them there feminists are talking about.
Then go read the discussion at Public address, particularly this comment from Emma Hart, though there are many more:
http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-narcissists-and-bullies/?p=299955#post299955
yeah that cop was disgusting. they said they had a word with the ‘boys’, ‘dont brag about it fellas, otherwise you gonna get busted…’ or somethign along those lines?. those boys families must be utterly embarrassed, well i hope so!
Pascal:
I understand that, but surly there is enough evidence, why not seize these rapists cell phones/computers, I think its a safe bet that they took pictures of their victims in a state
of undress, that would be child pornography, then you can arrest them.
Ps: thanks for the link.
Well there’s all sorts of things we might think the police could have been doing. We know, for instance, that they don’t hesitate to use the GCSB to track cellphones and metadata. We don’t know what sort of things for exactly, but we’ve been told it’s drugs and money laundering.
Tracking a gang of rapists who gloat about their activities however, seems to be not a priority.
Pascal:
you know, I have to say this, its disappointing, that the left are saying stuff about the police, the right are saying stuff about the girls drinking..
IMHO what needs to be said, is that these rapists are the ones to blame 100%, its rape and they belong in jail.
Who is tasked with investigating crimes and then prosecuting alleged offenders in court, thus enabling them, if guilty beyond reasonable doubt, to be put in gaol?
Well to go to jail, generally requires being arrested.
Also kind of weird, that you criticise me, when you said pretty much the same thing:
but surly there is enough evidence, why not seize these rapists cell phones/computers, I think its a safe bet that they took pictures of their victims in a state
of undress, that would be child pornography, then you can arrest them.
But you know, the left and the right are just the same. Coz questioning the police and blaming the victims is the same.
sigh, maybe these days have been coming ever since gamers began having vicarious sex in Grand Theft Auto. Certainly evidence of more dehumanization of victims by offenders in these social trends. Been similar rings of men found offending on a huge scale in the UK. Generally facilitated by the admission of drug and / or alcohol. Yet we hear that the Taliban are misogynist…
RT
What I read about the UK seemed to be Indian/Pakistani men with white girls. I think that the high barriers against some cultures having sex outside marriage, mean that they look at western women who don’t keep to that rule, thinking that they are ‘easy’ and don’t deserve any respect as people. The dark side of the purity culture. The division of women into saint or whore, respect or availability.
“sigh, maybe these days have been coming ever since gamers began having vicarious sex in Grand Theft Auto. Certainly evidence of more dehumanization of victims by offenders in these social trends.”
I do think that things we do for ‘recreation’ affect our thinking and behaviour. But pack rape of drunk girls in social settings is not new and predates computer games by a long way. This is about rape culture RT. Modern violent culture overlays that for sure, but it’s not the core of it.
you know, I have to say this, its disappointing, that the left are saying stuff about the police, the right are saying stuff about the girls drinking..
IMHO what needs to be said, is that these rapists are the ones to blame 100%, its rape and they belong in jail.
You really are a fool. Everyone else here is making a serious attempt to talk about (yet another) police failure, and you’ve once again tried to sidetrack discussion by launching into one of your wandery and confused speculations about left and right.
Please stay on your own blog, where you can continue to write all sorts of silly things, and bother nobody.
Morrissey, I don’t think Brett is deliberately trying to sidetrack. He’s as angry about it as the rest of us – just looking at it from a different perspective.
Anne:
Thanks, like everybody else in newzealand, I feel disgusted at this.
I disagree, Anne. Brett Dale has an established track record of attempting to derail serious discussions by making bizarre comments like he has done, yet again, here. You are being very charitable in your assessment of this pest.
So you want to convict people who are 16 or 17 years old for child pornography because they took naked pictures of a 15 year old?
FFS. They would all be minors in the US.
Are you saying that minors shouldn’t be charged with crimes?
Or that publishing photos of naked teenage girls on the internet without their consent that isn’t a crime?
Sosoo
I want to prosecute people who get underage girls drunk, rape them, film it,
share it on the internet, and then show off about it, and then try to recruit other rapists if they pay them 20 dollars.
You do understand what happen was rape?
Because New Zealand has always been a hotbed of drunken teenage promiscuity, and the police have better things to do than listen to the tales of adolescent braggarts and fantasists.
Here’s what the cop said:
That’s the common sense response in my view. They’d never get a conviction, as half of NZ has engaged in drunk teenage sex.
Are you saying that if a 15 yr old girl is so drunk she can’t speak or move, and a number of teen boys put their penises inside her, that SHE is having ‘drunk teen sex’?
Are you saying that if a 15 yr old girl is so drunk she can’t speak or move, and a number of teen boys put their penises inside her, that SHE is having ‘drunk teen sex’?
Sounds familiar. Three years ago Murray Deaker and Andy Haden were pushing the same obscene argument….
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/deaker-says-haden-treated-unfairly-3638070
And what if one of the penises in question was attached to the son of a cop.
one of the boys is the son of an ‘international celebrity’, the other, the son of a cop, according to tv3…certainly beginning to stink. tho the cop on rnz did make a lot of sense, but now this comes out?
Good on Carol Beaumont for asking why the police have not done more about these jerks for two years. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11151264 How many victims could have been saved had they expressed public concern long before now?
The more that comes out the worse it gets 🙁
Reading the Public Address thread now. This –
That’s a pretty clear indictment of how the NZ Police view rape, still. And how much this society values young women (or young men for that matter). Consider how much time, effort, money the police put into other crimes where they know they are occuring over 2 years. Hell, consider how much effort went into the Tuhoe raids. The men in this situation are in fact domestic terrorists.
Not sure if this is there twitter account, but its called roast busters and seems to be supporting them
@ki_suvaSPJ
How society views young men and young women. How young men and young women view themselves. How they value themselves and have pride in themselves. Thoughtful questions?
There will always be the need to protect oneself against addictive booze and other drugs. Also people who would like to get something valuable from you for free. Mugging or hugging can have similar outcomes! It is sad to see behaviour that was illustrated and written about in the 1700s occurring today. Can’t we learn?
There is a famous Hogarth picture of a drunk mother slumped on the ground, her baby falling out of her arms. This was shown alongside a sign ‘Drunk for 1 penny, Dead drunk for tuppence, Straw for nothing’!!
Hogarth was disturbed about the venality of the government encouraging distilling as it used grain which was suffering a slump in sales, and the gin sales caused consequent decay of society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Street_and_Gin_Lane
http://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Mothers-Ruin/
In the 1730’s notices could be seen all over London. The message was short and to the point
‘Drunk for 1 penny, Dead drunk for tuppence, Straw for nothing’!!
In London alone, there were more than 7,000 ‘dram shops’, and 10 million gallons of gin were being distilled annually in the capital…
The NZ Police not investigating the pack-rape of drunk women?
Quelle surprise.
Virginia Linton+100….there needs to be some sort of official inquiry into this
Noted commie journo Chris Keall, of the NBR:
https://twitter.com/ChrisKeall/status/397200560702513152/photo/1
“Official NZ govt site should be used by the govt of the day for straight info, not school-boy shots at the opposition”
That’s the sort of rubbish you’d see in a third world dictatorship, and shows why Tories should never be allowed near the levers of power.
FYI
PROTEST! Oppose the TICS and International Convention Centre Bills!
WHEN: Tuesday 5 November 2013 (Guy Fawkes Day)
TIME: 12 noon – 2pm
WHERE: Outside TVNZ (Corner of Hobson and Victoria Streets Auckland City)
(Both the TICS and International Convention Centre Bills listed on the provisional NZ Parliamentary ‘Order Paper’ for 5 November 2013 http://www.parliament.nz/resource/0001954127 )
While this National/ACT Government continues to violate citizens lawful rights to privacy, freedom of expression and freedom of association under the TICS Bill, ( http://techliberty.org.nz/changes-to-the-tics-bill/ ) there has been no ‘due diligence’ on the increased risk of money-laundering at Sky City under the International Convention Centre Bill, which effectively allows anonymity to money-launderers and organised criminals?
http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/increased-risk-of-money-laundering-at-sky-city-no-due-diligence-by-auckland-council/
Quite unbelievable, in my considered opinion, that OFCANZ (illegally) sought and obtained the assistance of the GCSB in the unlawful surveillance of Kim Dotcom, and charged him with money-laundering, yet have not lifted a finger to do ‘due diligence’ on the arguably FAR bigger money-laundering threat arising from the International Convention Centre (Sky City) Bill?
http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/SKY-CITY-OFCANZ-OIA-REPLY-NO-DUE-DLIGENCE-RE-MONEY-LAUNDERING-bright-penny-06-c211711-2-sent-reply.pdf
A GREAT look for New Zealand – ‘perceived’ to be ‘the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ (along with Denmark and Finland) , according to the Transparency International 2012 Corruption Perception Index?
NOT!
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results
Protest organised by Penny Bright and Jax Taylor.
Those opposed to the TICS and International Convention Centre Bill are welcome!
Cheers!
‘Her Warship’ 😉
The PM thinks the young rapists are disgusting and that they should grow up.
https://twitter.com/felixmarwick/status/397193896733593600
Maybe they could grow up and join the police.
Or the National Party.
they should grow up and get past that rapey phase that many young torieboys go through, but they can keep their knighthoods because they got those awards for other reasons. /sarc
Further comments here:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/226608/pm-says-roast-busters'-behaviour-abhorrent
Doesn’t touch on the fact that these are 17-18 year olds getting underage girls drunk and raping them. But he gets that the shaming them on facebook later is bad.
Key’s comments at presser:
These young guys should just grow up,” Key said this afternoon.
“I guess, as a parent, I find the issue very disturbing and abhorrent really.
“I mean, you are talking about youngsters who are at a very delicate age.”
Key defended the work of police, who have spent two years investigating the gang, without any charges brought.
“It is very difficult to progress this issue, if someone isn’t prepared to make a formal complaint.
“And it’s a very challenging situation for a young woman to put herself in that position.”
It’s very revealing – the first instinct of the authoritarian-conservative … defend police.
Victims come first, but authority comes firster.
“a formal complaint”
Would like to see a legal opinion on this. I was of the understanding that for statuatory rape, a complaint by the underage girl wasn’t necessary for someone to be charged.
In my last year at school, one of my friend’s sister was found to be having sex with her boyfriend two weeks before her 16th birthday. The police charged the guy even though she begged them not to. He was about 6 months older than her, and his father was a truck driver. That was a while ago, but they certainly didn’t need a complaint then. This case stinks in more ways than one.
Wow, just wow.no mention of the crimes being committed. gobsmacked indeed.
What PM Key should’ve said. is…
“These guys are rapists who belong in jail for rape, and if they have filmed their victims, they are also guilty of child pornography”
Agreed Brett.
I agree with you but we have the old innocent until proven guilty to contend with
Unless your name is Bradley Ambrose, and you’ve done something really bad.
Then the PM just says you’re guilty – in Parliament.
This is not a FUCKIN case of teen boys behaving badly its a case of people gang raping under age girls.
And what seems the PM not giving a toss.
I’m sure he’s comfortable with that
The Boiler Suit and other working class looks coming this way…
“In the last Australian election Liberal strategist Mark Textor put then-opposition leader Tony Abbott in a bright velcro vest and hard hat right at the centre of campaign pictures. Now in Britain his partner Lynton Crosby has further developed the working look by putting his client, Prime Minister David Cameron, into a boiler suit.”
lol tc
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9358829/Cunliffe-backs-gender-quota
In case you’re all wondering what readers of stuff think theres a poll
Surely even you can see the leading bias in the way the ‘poll’ question was asked.
Do you agree with Labour’s MP gender quota?
Yes it’s a good idea, we need more female MPs
No, MPs should be selected on their merits, not their sex
Dumb fucks.
it’s a sorry state of affairs put like that weka.
🙄
In case you’re all wondering what readers of stuff think theres a poll
wondering- No, we aren’t
readers – No, they aren’t
think – No, they don’t
poll – No, it isn’t
“Readers of stuff”? LOL. You mean: what highly organised National Party supporters have been told to vote.
How many times did YOU vote, as a matter of interest?
Once, only seems to allow one vote per PC or at least it doesn’t seem to change the total if you vote more then and of course left wingers would never organize to vote on an on-line poll (thats sarcasm by the way)
I don’t expect the gender quota policy to be particularly popular amongst voters as a whole. But that wasn’t the point of the remit. Hopefully some professional polling is done on the issue some time soon.
Well I would have thought that if you encourage more women to run for office then you’ll get a greater pool of talent to select from
All I said was that the gender quota policy isn’t going to be very popular, from the feedback I am getting. Whether it will encourage more women to put their hands up to be candidates – I think that’s speculative and it wasnt the point of the remit.
I guess what some people might be thinking is what will be next…will govt departments be forced to ensure theres gender equality in the hiring for example
So what was the point of the remit then (genuine curiosity)
yeah, I’m still looking into that.
Cool
So is it the right time to talk about this now?
I can tell you right now that the genda quota policy is exceedingly stupid and could be enough to stop Labour winning the next election. Get rid of it, and quickly!
Roastbusters. (as per conversation above) So on the news just now it’s been said that one of the boys’ is the son of an entertainer and another is the son of a cop, no mention of whose sons they are. Since this isn’t a case of name suppression because we’ve never got as far as the courts with this, what is it? Do the lawyers for the father prevent their clients names from being broadcast? Why are they protected when the girls aren’t?
Why did the cop say last night they couldn’t do anything because none of the girls have been “brave” enough to come forward? The shame isn’t theirs to own, so did he really mean “they haven’t come forward because they don’t feel supported enough to do so”? Why did the reporter feel it necessary to say that one of the victims had already lost her “innocence”? How is that relevant to her being raped?
Age old rhetorical questions. The problem is they are still being asked.
One of those times when I just think WTF is going on with guys these days and yeah I think that maybe some laws could be looked at…I dunno maybe a lawyer could explain it better but maybe the burden of proof required to start an investigation could be lowered if the alleged crime involves under age kids, drugs or something
“I just think WTF is going on with guys these days”
Chris73, this is not new behaviour. The difference now is that people are willing to talk about it, and talk about it as rape (thank-you feminism for all the hard work in the past few decades). Plus there is the internet which alters the discourse hugely. And of course the internet allows those young men to be complete arseholes in a much more public way. But make no mistake, this behaviour has been around for a very long time.
It’s possible that chris73 has not met the type of bloke that’s an exhibitionist. That would take a photo of his penis and send that to someone he wants to interest or shock or both.
There’s a lot going on that doesn’t enter many people’s understanding. From that behaviour going on to more advanced titillation is a few steps. I think the word that covers both the male, and female behaviour in being attracted to these sleazebags, would be hedonism – .
the pursuit of pleasure; sensual self-indulgence.
I don’t think this is hedonism, more like deliberate degradation and ritual humiliation
Yep.
God only knows why someone wouldn’t want to go the police to say they were raped by a cop’s son. Hardly worth mentioning really eh?
“Why did the reporter feel it necessary to say that one of the victims had already lost her “innocence”?”
christ, did they really use the word ‘innocence’?
I’ve only got the website link with text, not the actual reporters words but they did relate to the young woman who was interviewed below:
“One girl, who is choosing to remain anonymous, says the Roast Busters stole her soul.
“They don’t understand how I feel inside; they don’t understand how this has hurt me,” she says.
Police say the girl is one of a number of drunk, underage victims they’ve interviewed about being exploited by the Roast Busters”
http://www.3news.co.nz/Roast-Busters-sons-of-high-profile-entertainer-cop/tabid/423/articleID/320034/Default.aspx#.UndLx3CBnrc
It was one of those “if/but” unnecessary sentences that acts as a disclaimer to the information provided. I wonder if TV3 sought to minimise her reality and her pain by pointing out that the victim had lost her virginity as an underage person. By saying it, they were already discrediting the criminal act of the young men involved.
PB: Yeah, I mean why would you need to feel “brave” when faced with the potential parent of your rapist. How many young women were threatened with the line: “don’t even bother with the cops, my dad is one, bitch” And still the same spokesperson for the cops said tonight, that had nothing to do with their lack of action…………
I hope that someone has warned the Afghani interpreters and their families about the Bangers being exploded on November 5th, and before and after. Four very loud bombs blasts have just gone off. They could sound like IEDs.
As fireworks which were meant to be colourful things, these are a sham. I hate the things, and I think they should be limited to one public place, where people can buy one or two to let off in a field or something and there is a set piece to watch and it raises money for the local firefighters, appropriately. And too many fireworks especially bangers get held over and exploded at various times during the year long after November 5th.
Yes, on to a another topic, that of Guy Fawkes. We do have a number of refugee’s from war zones living in NZ and I’ve wondered before what they think of NZer’s sense of fun at blowing things up in the night suddenly without warning, at this time of the year.
Today, yet again, I’ve signed what seems to be an annual petition to govt to ban the private sale of fireworks. As usual it was from animal welfare orientated group. As usual it will be ignored. Who wants to be the government that bans “fun” ? No one so far.
I’m all for public displays in a controlled environment. Better that than leave explosives in the hands of folks that intentionally set out to harm domestic and farmed animals that the SPCA have to deal with every year. Let alone the stress caused by fireworks to animals kept indoors on Guy Fawkes night.Tomorrow, I’ll spend half the evening lying under the bed trying to calm our cat friend down.
Our suburbia encroaches onto farmland where we have several bird species that are nesting with their chicks as well as sheep with their lambs and cows with their calves. As well as all the development these animals have to cope with (this is another story for another time)they have to cope with sounds that are frightening to them. Got to marvel at human sensitivity and intelligence.
Its essential for democracy to have outlets for political expression. Celebrating the bomber of parliament by burning his image is for me the one finger to both the terrorists, and the authoritarians who would see any chatter about government to be unlawful. And then there is the very real gain that we manage fireworks and control gun powder.
you are a load of fun Rosie
lolita or somebody’s brother
You obviously can’t get to sleep because of the fireworks and the noise or the worry that you won’t have any fireworks and noise if intelligent people can stop this childish expensive destructive ritual.
Adequate sleep is very necessary for clear thinking and the growth of brain function and general health. Before you get to be somebody’s partner, or somebody’s father it would be a good idea to get lots of sleep.
Either way, you usually need to be by the computer and be ready to bid, for any
chance at winning the item. They say any form of exercise can keep your body fit and active.
Unfortunately, the developer also had to express its disappointment in a
leak of game assets from PSN pre-orders in Europe that have
led to the spread of spoilers.
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