Open mike 05/04/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 5th, 2020 - 231 comments
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231 comments on “Open mike 05/04/2020 ”

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  1. Ad 1
    5 April 2020 at 7:16 am

    A wee piece of real-life comedy for you this morning.

    Naval boat repeatedly rams a cruise liner for no reason other than testosterone poisoning.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/03/americas/venezuela-navy-cruise-liner-incident-intl/index.html

    Naval ship didn't realise – after ramming the cruise liner multiple times – that the cruise liner prow was reinforced to withstand antarctic ice.

    Whoops.

    Naval boat crumples and sinks.

    Cruise liner: 1

    Venezuelan navy: 0

    • alwyn 1.1
      5 April 2020 at 11:21 am

      That was covered in Yesterday's Dom/Post as well. I couldn't help but laugh out loud.

      What I particularly liked was that, after it was obvious that the patrol craft was taking on water, that "the cruise ship had remained in the vicinity of the incident for more than an hour and had offered assistance.. It's Captain alerted the Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre in Curacao which eventually advised him to continue his journey."

      Go away! Stop looking at us! Let us sink in peace!

    • Andre 1.2
      5 April 2020 at 11:24 am

      I'm just disappointed there's no video of the whole thing.

      • alwyn 1.2.1
        5 April 2020 at 2:22 pm

        There are an enormous number of uploads on Youtube but all they are is just stock footage of both ships. None show the ramming attempt as far as I could discover.

        Why does David Lange's comment come to mind?

        'Shortly after the Mikhail Lermontov, the pride of the Soviet cruising fleet, ended her life at the bottom of the Marlborough Sounds, Lange declared that little old New Zealand was "the only nation to sink a Russian Ship since the Second World War."'.

  2. I Feel Love 2
    5 April 2020 at 7:31 am

    To those that think we were too slow, and to those that think we went too severe, 1 death, so far. Look at the UK, nurses, Drs, Bus Drivers, a 5 year old yesterday! Each county numbering 100s of deaths. Big thanks to those working their arses off keeping us as safe as they can.

    • Stunned Mullet 3.1
      5 April 2020 at 8:51 am

      'Imagine if Bridges was PM?'

      OK …

      • I think there would've been an almost identical response in regards to how the MoH and lockdown is proceeding
      • The fiscal response from the MoF would've been similar (no rise in minimum wage) but in general more similarities in response than differences
      • Bridges general communication wouldn't have been as good as Ardern.
      • KJT 3.1.1
        5 April 2020 at 9:00 am

        I doubt that very much.

        For a start the lockdown would have been delayed, "because of the cost to business".

        Those on welfare would have been ignored.

        Big businesses with lobbying clout would have all still been open and their employees forced to work.

        There would be no uptick in demand from a minimum wage rise.

        Help would have been directed at banks and corporates. Small business, sole traders,beneficiaries and wage earners would have been last on the list, if at all.

        Lastly, communication from Bridges would have been abysmal, and even their own voters don't really trust National. Except for tax cuts and lining their own pockets.

        • Wayne 3.1.1.1
          5 April 2020 at 9:07 am

          KJT,

          You are letting your political bias blind you to political reality. As SM says there would have been virtually no difference in response (except minimum wage increase).

          All the fiscal measures to support wages and salaries, to support small business survive would have been implemented.

          How do I know this? Because what the govt has done is modelled on what National did in Christchurch. They have actually said as much.

          Under National there would have been much tougher border surveillance and earlier. That has been and remains a major failure of the government.

          • KJT 3.1.1.1.1
            5 April 2020 at 9:14 am

            My reply is not from my political bias.

            It is from what first hand knowledge of what National, really did, in Christchurch.

            Not the PR spin version.

            Tougher border surveillance could, and I think also, should, have been done sooner.

            In fact I consider the border shutdown could have been sooner.

            But. Don’t tell me that National wouldn’t have been prevaricating about, costs! long after the co-alition acted.

            Bridges was still going on about costs to business not long ago. FFS..

            • aj 3.1.1.1.1.1
              5 April 2020 at 11:05 am

              KJT may be right. Wayne may be right. We'll never know. I lean towards KJT's point of view. National would have been likely followed Scumo's weaker response. But as I said, it's history, and words spoken now about what would have happened are worthless and meaningless.

              • Incognito …
                5 April 2020 at 11:50 am

                I agree. Nice as it may sound, it’s rather pointless and not even an ‘academic’ exercise. It also carries the risk of polarising opinions, which we don’t really need in these times or in any time for that matter, IMHO.

          • KJT 3.1.1.1.2
            5 April 2020 at 9:26 am

            You still haven't answered my question.

            Who restocked our National pandemic supplies in 2017.

            And another. Which Government was engaged in privatising by stealth, our health system? Which is going to severely limit our response.

          • observer 3.1.1.1.3
            5 April 2020 at 9:30 am

            "Bridges as PM" is not the same as "National in government".

            I would give Key/English the benefit of the doubt. But the "bonfire of red tape" (Simon Bridges' own plans, in his own words) was announced as a response to Covid-19.

            "The arguments for these things just becomes stronger as a result of Covid-19 … Clearing away red tape means businesses are freer to get up in the morning to hire people and building houses, cutting hair, doing the things that need to be done without the unnecessary rules and regulations," he said.

            That was in March 2020. Less than a month ago. Only days before the lockdown. It was pure fantasy.

            Simon Bridges would have cost lives.

          • KJT 3.1.1.1.4
            5 April 2020 at 9:49 am

            I gave Key credit at the time when he raised welfare payments.

            And for not going full austerity after the GFC, like so many of the Clowns, overseas.

          • weka 3.1.1.1.5
            5 April 2020 at 10:44 am

            "Because what the govt has done is modelled on what National did in Christchurch."

            What did National do for beneficiaries at that time? I don't remember an across the board benefit rise for Canterbury people. Nor an energy payment that winter. Can't remember what National's response was. Anyone?

        • Climaction 3.1.1.2
          5 April 2020 at 10:06 am

          Single issue lunacy from you KJT, surround by a huge amount of conjecture and what if’s’

          I think the response has been over the top. If anyone thinks this thing isn’t coming back for round 2 at some point, they’re deluded. Will we just shut the economy down again? Or is it better to allow some deaths amongst the lower risk demographics and try and focus isolation and support on the high risk? Then at least we can build some immunity.

          • KJT 3.1.1.2.1
            5 April 2020 at 10:13 am

            Another happy to sacrifice "other people". For the "economy".

            Where else are we hearing that from?

            By the way, they are heading tens thousands of deaths, if not millions, and their economy, is still fucked.

            • Grantoc 3.1.1.2.1.1
              5 April 2020 at 10:38 am

              KJT

              No economy in the world can meets the all of the health needs of citizens and prevent all disease related deaths. What economies can do is generate capital to support and resource health systems. The stronger the economy, the greater the resources governments can give to health systems. The issue as it always has been is about how to best allocate those resources. This requires careful judgement (not evident with the current Minister of Health).

              For instance cancer patients have for years been competing with each other and with other medical conditions for resources. There is never enough resource to go round and so there will always be priorities and winners and losers.

              No one is "happy" about "sacrificing"people. And it doesn't happen "for the economy". Your thinking on this doesn't make sense. Its emotive bullshit.

              To reiterate, its the 'economy' that makes it possible to build better health systems.

          • observer 3.1.1.2.2
            5 April 2020 at 10:14 am

            The problem with these armchair alternatives is that they ignore the most basic question in a democracy. Does the government tell the people what it is doing?

            If "No", then you're arguing for a cover-up. Which would inevitably leak out, and there would be uproar.

            If "Yes", how do you propose that a NZ government (ANY government, forget the names and parties) announces to the people:

            "We think it is better to allow some deaths, so we'll be doing that."

          • bwaghorn 3.1.1.2.3
            5 April 2020 at 10:54 am

            So the young should die to protect the old and the infirm?

            • Grantoc 3.1.1.2.3.1
              5 April 2020 at 11:27 am

              By and large the evidence strongly suggests that the young don't die at anywhere near the same rates as 'the old and infirm" as a result of Convid 19. So that sacrifice is not being asked of the young. And neither should it.

              • lprent …
                5 April 2020 at 11:31 am

                The same rate does not mean that there is no rate. They still get sick, they still die, and they still infect others. Therefore they are still sacrificing.

                Moreover as they have to go off sick in large quantities, they will cause businesses to fail thereby eventually losing themselves and others their jobs.

                What kind of moronic point are you trying to make? Simpleton aphorisms don’t make an argument – they merely define someone being an idiot.

                • Grantoc …
                  5 April 2020 at 12:22 pm

                  I agree with your statements concerning the use of the concept, 'rates'.

                  My other point (which I should have made more clearly) is that I don't think we should be expecting the young to make unreasonable sacrifices for, say, boomers, for example.

                  • Incognito …
                    5 April 2020 at 12:27 pm

                    You know you are utterly unconvincing and lack a compelling argument when you use clichés like that.

                  • lprent …
                    5 April 2020 at 1:13 pm

                    I understand that you're probably been a little too lazy to read up on epidemics. But the issue in a epidemic without a vaccine or a effective treatment is that everyone almost without exception gets sick.

                    The more often that you get exposed and infected again before you develop any immunities, the more likely it is that you'll wind up with a dose of infecting agents that manage to overwhelm anyones immune system. Without adequete medical treatment you're more likely to die or have a downstream consequence – like a permanently compromised immune system.

                    So instead of whining about someone else based on a discussion about probabilities, perhaps you should look more closely at how you stop you, your family, your friends, and your workmates getting into a situation that they get into the worst possible epidemic case.

                    Try looking at New York where it appears the major demographic dying or severely distressed now are in their 30s and 40s because they have been swanning around in virus haze thinking that they're immune.

                    Meanwhile the boomers buttoned up weeks ago because they were told that they were at risk.

                    • Poission …
                      5 April 2020 at 2:17 pm

                      You can also look to OZ where the risk takers are the most affected ie 20's.

                      Dr McAnulty said that younger people are being affected.

                      "Young people need to be aware that they are not immune from getting severe disease.

                      "The older people and people with underlying health problems, cardiac or chest or immune problems, are most prone to getting severe disease and requiring intensive care and ventilation, but younger people are getting infected as well, and the biggest single age group is people in their 20s.

                      "In fact, we have seen also three people who were ventilated in intensive care in their 30s."

                      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-05/coronavirus-australia-live-blog-updates-covid-19-april-5/12122460

                  • weka …
                    5 April 2020 at 2:08 pm

                    My other point (which I should have made more clearly) is that I don't think we should be expecting the young to make unreasonable sacrifices for, say, boomers, for example.

                    Why not? We're all in this together. Some of the at risk people will be younger people eg those with asthma or immune issues. Everyone is making sacrifices, not just young people, so why single them out as a group and pit them against others?

                    Further, why is the boomer generation not worthy of being helped? What about the elderly who will die if we all don't do our bit?

            • Climaction 3.1.1.2.3.2
              5 April 2020 at 11:43 am

              Are those young going to have there student loans remitted? As they face ruinous generational bills to pay for the privilege of extending the lives of those who benefited from a free education? Will the young get advantageous interest rates on their mortgages as they take lower paid roles in order to support the old and infirmary right to live where they are on a full government super? Will that same super be affordable for future generations as reward for sacrificing so much for the old and infirm who demanded the economy be shut down to protect them.

              the same voices crying for there future generations to be protected from climate change are now sadly forgotten as those same voices revert to individualistic selfishness.

              • KJT …
                5 April 2020 at 11:47 am

                Still with the right wing, trying to set generations against each other, bollocks.

              • Incognito …
                5 April 2020 at 12:10 pm

                What a mighty spectacle of shadowboxing strawmen you paint there.

                In case you missed it, we’re currently trying to protect and save (!) every vulnerable New Zealander irrespective of age and socio-economic status.

          • Gabby 3.1.1.2.4
            5 April 2020 at 11:02 am

            Go ahead and sacrifice yourself. Which business are you going to throw yourself under the covid bus for?

          • Incognito 3.1.1.2.5
            5 April 2020 at 12:03 pm

            For the moment, I’m ignoring the rest of your comment, which is basking in ignorance, IMO.

            Then at least we can build some immunity.

            Nobody knows or is sure if exposure to (i.e. infection with) COVID-19 will induce immunity and, if so, how long this will last. This pandemic is too young to tell and it is highly risky to make predictions and extrapolate from the experience with other coronaviruses or research on animals.

            • Climaction 3.1.1.2.5.1
              5 April 2020 at 2:47 pm

              Pretty weak excuse. It’s not wiping people out. It’s fatality rate amongst people without other morbidity factors is nearing .25%.

              its the old and infirm and the occasionally unlucky other who then gets sensationalised. I’m not saying it’s not something to be afraid of, but when the theoretical cure is worse than the disease…

              we don’t even know if isolation will actually break the transmission cycle. It’s a best guess based on an assumption. So no less valid than Sweden’s approach, which is what I think we should follow.

              but hey, if you blindly accept MoH media reports and briefings, be my guest.

              • Incognito …
                5 April 2020 at 3:02 pm

                The fatality rate from COVID-19 among people who don’t get infected with COVID-19 is 0.00%.

                We don’t know all the morbidity factors and some people have undiagnosed factors.

                Young healthy people without any conditions or morbidity factors have died and are still dying from COVID-19.

                New Zealand’s approach is not Sweden’s one. Sweden currently has 373 deaths caused by COVID-19.

                but hey, if you blindly display your ignorance, be my guest.

                • Climaction …
                  5 April 2020 at 7:47 pm

                  The fatality rate is incredibly low amongst young people. So your statement young are getting sick and dying is misleading.

                  https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/

                  people are going to die regardless, do we want to lower everyone who survives quality of life for generations to come to potentially save a small portion of the population? And save them only the first time round?

                  its a tough choice, no one gets it right, but the draconian response is out of proportion.

                  • Incognito …
                    5 April 2020 at 8:44 pm

                    There is no misleading in my statement about young people dying from COVID-19, as your own link shows. You, OTOH, are displaying your ignorance again.

                    In New Zealand, the young are the single largest group of positive cases, which is why the PM singled them out in one of recent press conferences.

                    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-current-cases#age

                    Yes, we’re all going to die, one day. However, we don’t leave anyone behind in this country.

                    You seem to be suggesting that we “potentially” sacrifice “a small portion of the population” so that the survivors can have better quality of life.

                    You say that this is a tough choice. Well, no, for me it’s an easy choice and my QALYs would be lower because of my burdened conscience assuming I’ll be among the survivors. You don’t seem to have that problem!?

                    • Climaction …
                      6 April 2020 at 7:38 am

                      Getting sick is not the same as dying from Covid 19. Probably why we aren’t seeing lots of deaths relative to our infection rate.

                      so either your example about New Zealand’s young is designed to be misleading about the fatality impact of covid 19 or it supports my point that the at risk people (fat Americans, old people, underlying health conditions) should be isolated and have massively targeted support and the very low risk people should be allowed to live almost as normal, with some restrictions. As covid 19 isn’t fatally dangerous to them

                    • Incognito []
                      6 April 2020 at 11:10 am

                      Ignorant still, but not a surprise.

                      When falling sick, you risk dying from it. This applies to all ages, but not equally, which nobody has disputed so this is a strawman.

                      When becoming a carrier, you risk spreading the virus and infecting others. This has nothing to do with your own ‘risk status’.

                      To prevent this from happening and to try to stamp out the virus, we’re in Alert Level 4. This is likely why we aren’t seeing lots of deaths relative to our infection rate.

                      You’re suggesting to let the virus go rampant among the population without knowing who are at risk and who aren’t; you don’t know whom it will be “fatally dangerous” to. You’re prepared to let people die so that others can live “almost as normal”. You believe that this is a price worth paying.

                      Who’s talking about “fat Americans” in our NZ society? Are you deliberately misleading?

                      You’re as ignorant about COVID-19 as you are about CC, which actually makes a lot of sense.

              • Stunned Mullet …
                5 April 2020 at 3:06 pm

                '…if you blindly accept MoH media reports and briefings, ..'

                Hmm blindly following the actual experts advice or some pseudonymous commenter on a blog….. that's a tough one.

                Have you ever seen any of the vaccination threads on this site.. lots of pseudonymous commenters thinking they know better than the experts and their science.

                • Climaction …
                  5 April 2020 at 7:41 pm

                  This guy knows what’s what. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/

                  are people dying of or with covid-19?

                  • Incognito …
                    5 April 2020 at 8:59 pm

                    They’re dying of COVID-19.

                    See also https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05-04-2020/#comment-1698395

                    We encourage strong debate supported by sound arguments. We ask the ignorami to educate themselves and improve their arguments and debating skills. You’re starting to sound like a straight-up denier, as you did with CC. Keep it up and you’ll be booted off this site.

                    • Climaction …
                      6 April 2020 at 7:41 am

                      Who is denying CC? You’re getting confused. CC is happening, I think there are other ways to deal with it than jetting around hectoring people or organising wasteful marches.

                      3 people ventilated. It’s hardly reason enough to shut down society. Some will be unlucky enough to get it seriously or even fatally. It’s unfortunate, but not enough to wreck the futures of the rest of their generation.

                    • Incognito []
                      6 April 2020 at 10:50 am

                      Only 3 people ventilated. It’s hardly reason enough to shut down society.

                      FIFY

                      And only one fatality case so far. We’re so lucky, indeed!

                  • KJT …
                    6 April 2020 at 8:09 am

                    And. If the hospitals are full of Coronavirus cases, a hell of a lot of other people are going to die of other conditions. Because there is no place or people to treat them.

                    But. They are just part of the "collateral damage" right.

                    One of my friends, a health worker, still cannot work because his constantly postponed hip replacement, has been postponed again due to coronavirus. Isn't that a cost, to?

          • Adrian 3.1.1.2.6
            5 April 2020 at 12:54 pm

            Keen to volunteer your family as guinea pigs to see if your half arsed theory is correct.?

            • Climaction 3.1.1.2.6.1
              5 April 2020 at 2:43 pm

              Yup. I am.

              nothing half arsed about it. How else would a vaccine be effective if it wasn’t exposed to virus.

              get back to FB Karen

              • I Feel Love …
                6 April 2020 at 10:11 am

                The reason some of those Drs and nurses are dying is because they are getting reinfected, and each time it hits them stronger, then they die. You may end up like Boris Johnson, in denial, then sick.

    • Pete George 3.2
      5 April 2020 at 9:48 am

      Bridges was interviewed on Q+A this morning, and it was far the best I've seen him. Sensible, largely supportive of Government measures dealing with Covid, but pertinent questions about testing and quarantining of incoming travelers.

      He seemed to be natural and informed.

      This perhaps shows the benefits of being isolated from party strategists and media trainers.

      • KJT 3.2.1
        5 April 2020 at 9:54 am

        And focus groups and polls. devil

        • Pete George 3.2.1.1
          5 April 2020 at 9:58 am

          All of them the bane of modern politics and the ruin of potential leaders. David Shearer suffered badly from it, as did Andrew Little (but as it turns out Ardern is a far better communicator anyway).

          Ardern herself has been better when finding herself in times of crisis where she acts as she sees fit rather than being projected through a PR lens. Her interview on Seven Sharp on Friday wasn't one her best, it looked prepared and scripted, and laughing off the Clark question and pivoting to a lecture to the rest of us to not do what Clark had done was poor.

          • KJT 3.2.1.1.1
            5 April 2020 at 10:33 am

            We to often forget that a Leader is still part of a group/party.

            Who, may not even agree with the things they have to front.

            Or, like Trump, is the figurehead for a large number of enablers behind him.

            Then they have, in both Labour and National, to deal with a large number of chair polishers, and outright loons, their selection processes saddle them with.

          • Grantoc 3.2.1.1.2
            5 April 2020 at 10:46 am

            Ardern's interview on 7 Sharp on Friday was simply propaganda and politicking. Its was straight out of the ex Women's Weekly playbook.

            TVNZ need to be careful about providing a platform at prime time for political propaganda of this sort. Hillary Barry asking the tough questions is a joke. The programme was unbalanced and biased.

            Jack Tane's Q & A programme provides the template for how these things should be done; especially in these times.

        • Wayne 3.2.1.2
          5 April 2020 at 10:36 am

          Bollocks. What you saw is Simon as he is. Politicians both left and right are not automatons and just puppets of polling. Yes, polling is done. But basically a politician has to use his/her judgement. And once before the camera they just say what they say. It is not nearly as scripted as you seem to think.

          • Barfly 3.2.1.2.1
            5 April 2020 at 9:04 pm

            Yeah I ve seen Bridges in action -"Angry Simon implodes on Campbell Live"

            very natural oh him wasn't it Wayne?

          • KJT 3.2.1.2.2
            6 April 2020 at 8:12 am

            Yes. Saw it again yesterday. Bridges back to being a twit.

            "Government should let more businesses open if it is safe for them to do so".

            As if it isn't what they are doing already. FFS.

      • Treetop 3.2.2
        5 April 2020 at 10:49 am

        Bridges will have his platform when it comes to the usual May budget. I do not envy Robertson one bit when it comes to this.

        There was a mild earth quake in Christchurch this morning. We had the EQC for the earthquakes.

        We had a surplus which helps with the current Covid-19.

        We have ACC for injuries.

        I wonder how the ACC levies are going with the loss of income.

        Does anyone know?

        • lprent 3.2.2.1
          5 April 2020 at 11:50 am

          I wonder how the ACC levies are going with the loss of income.

          Bearing in mind the markets, I suspect they’d be more worried about their reserves which are the buffer. The levies are probably gone down roughly in line with the claims.

          • Treetop 3.2.2.1.1
            5 April 2020 at 1:25 pm

            It will be interesting to see what the claim number will be during the lockdown and the breakdown of them.

    • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 3.3
      5 April 2020 at 10:38 am

      We shall never know how Simon would have handled the crisis (thank God for that) but if we look overseas we can see numerous examples of how right wing governments have fared, Think Trump, think Johnson, think Morrison.

      It would be fair to say Simon would not have been much better than any of them.

      Add to that the Chinese ambassador's annoyance when we closed our borders to China and you can be sure the borders would have stayed open for longer – notwithstanding what Simon says now.

      • Grantoc 3.3.1
        5 April 2020 at 10:49 am

        Check the data Tony. Australia is doing ok. Its current management of the problem is producing results similar to NZ.

        • lprent 3.3.1.1
          5 April 2020 at 11:58 am

          Australia is doing ok. Its current management of the problem is producing results similar to NZ.

          Mostly because the various state governments like NSW, Vic and SA have been doing far closer what the NZ government has done. Closing borders. Forcing businesses to close. People to self-isolate early.

          They are doing this despite the Federal government’s vacillating and inconsistent policies that seemed largely designed to reduce the call on federal funds at the unemployment.

          However the federal government has now seemed to get on with the task at hand in recent days with what looks a lot like our stimulus programmes.

        • ScottGN 3.3.1.2
          5 April 2020 at 1:30 pm

          Only because the states have responsibility for Health and NSW and Victoria went harder, faster than the Federal government was always proposing.

    • ianmac 3.4
      5 April 2020 at 12:19 pm

      A grim read of the article on The Cut thanks KJT. I think?

  4. ScottGN 4
    5 April 2020 at 8:27 am

    A bit long and wordy but a great take on the Trump/Cuomo show.

    https://www.bedlamfarm.com/2020/04/02/the-cuomo-brothers-versus-the-president-what-a-show/

    • RedLogix 4.1
      5 April 2020 at 9:55 am

      Very, very good. It explains why the Dems have singularly misunderstood Trump, underestimated him and miserably failed to compete against such an egregious goat of a man:

      Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York seems to understand something that no other politician or political candidate up against President Trump has yet grasped. You can’t fight a Reality TV Presidency with an argument, you have to fight it with another reality show, a newer and better one.

      And you have to fight it by showing a better way, not just promising it or arguing about it.

      In essence, you undercut Trump by being the very opposite of him on television every single day when so many people are paying attention. You do not do this by attacking him or quarreling with him. It’s entertainment, stupid, fighting and offending is his specialty, it is most people’s weakness. You try to show what government, at its best, can do.

  5. Andre 5
    5 April 2020 at 8:59 am

    Reminder #23628 of why it's a really not a good idea for a political leader to own and control substantial business interests: the Dotard of Doltistan is looking for substantial debt relief from Deutsche Bank at the same time as the Department of Justice (which he is in charge of) is investigating Deutsche Bank for various crimes.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/deutsche-bank-trump-debt-help-coronavirus-conflict-of-interest_n_5e87ee89c5b6cc1e47758499

    • Adrian 5.1
      5 April 2020 at 1:01 pm

      Are these the loans guaranteed by Simeon Mogilivch the Russian mafia boss of bosses

  6. Morrissey 6
    5 April 2020 at 9:28 am

    Ruined party elects block of wood as "leader"

    Tony Blair sans the charisma.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/413473/sir-keir-starmer-to-lead-uk-labour-party

    • observer 6.1
      5 April 2020 at 9:35 am

      I'll take the views of UK Labour people who work with Starmer every day over your sideline cynicism, thanks.

      • Morrissey 6.1.1
        5 April 2020 at 9:44 am

        He's vowed to expel every Labour Party member who cares about human rights. You don't know much, or anything, about the UK Labour Party.

        https://www.timesofisrael.com/keir-starmer-elected-uk-labour-chief-apologizes-to-jews-for-party-anti-semitism/

        • weka 6.1.1.1
          5 April 2020 at 10:46 am

          "He's vowed to expel every Labour Party member who cares about human rights"

          Citation please (so we know what you are talking about).

          • TootingPopularFront 6.1.1.1.1
            5 April 2020 at 11:05 am

            I think Morrissey is referring to the article he posted, Starmer intends to address anti-semitism in the party (which doesn't really exist, but was an invention of many "friends of Israel" and some other hidden forces), this will be a direct attack on all socialists in the party who support Palestinian's human rights.

            • Morrissey 6.1.1.1.1.1
              5 April 2020 at 1:18 pm

              It's an attack not just on "socialists" but on all people who dare to speak out for the victims of injustice.

          • Morrissey 6.1.1.1.2
            5 April 2020 at 1:24 pm

            From the article I provided with my link:

            Starmer has previously said he would take action to eliminate prejudice against Jews in his party “on day one” in order to demonstrate “the difference that new leadership will make on the issue.”

            He has also said he would look to fully cooperate with the Equalities and Human Rights Commission’s report into anti-Semitism in the party, which is currently in the works, but that he had no intention of waiting for its results in order to take action.

            Starmer deliberately mislabels opposition to the crimes of the Israeli regime as "anti-Semitism." That obviously sits well with the extreme right Times of Israel, which published this encomium, but it's another nail in the coffin for the future of the Labour Party.

            • weka 6.1.1.1.2.1
              5 April 2020 at 2:44 pm

              So he hasn't "vowed to expel every Labour Party member who cares about human rights" then and you just made that up?

              What caught my attention about that was that the other leader candidates signed a pledge to support the expulsion of gender critical feminists from the party. From memory Starmer didn't, or at least he was restrained in his handling of that rather than throwing a large number of Labour feminists under the bus.

              So making shit up about expulsions carries more stupid weight than normal.

              • Morrissey …
                5 April 2020 at 2:51 pm

                He joined in the campaign of defamation against Jeremy Corbyn, which descended into a purge of anyone who spoke out against Israeli crimes. I didn't make that up, it's an unpleasant fact.

                Do you support the contention of the Blairite rump of that party that criticism of Israel is, per se, anti-Semitism?

                'The so-called “friends of Israel”, who support Israel automatically and blindly: this has nothing to do with friendship. They are enemies of Israel—they corrupt us. The Jewish establishment in Australia kept saying to me: “Israel right or wrong.” Well, Israel is wrong and they need to stop supporting it. Continuous support by Western governments and by the Jewish establishment is anything BUT friendship.'

                —Gideon Levy, speaking in Auckland, 3 Dec. 2017

                https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2017/12/unbelievable-brutality-day-after-day.html

                • weka …
                  5 April 2020 at 2:57 pm

                  which descended into a purge of anyone who spoke out against Israeli crimes

                  Citation needed, because it looks like you are making shit up again.

                  • Morrissey …
                    5 April 2020 at 2:59 pm

                    What it looks like is that you are back in your routine of feigned ignorance. I doubt that you are unaware of the brutal campaign of "anti-Semitism" allegations that was directed against Corbyn over the last four years. So why pretend you are?

                    • weka …
                      5 April 2020 at 3:04 pm

                      I'm asking for evidence that the Labour party has purged members or intends to. You've made the claim twice, and both times refused to back it up, so I assume now you are lying.

                      In terms of your politics around Israel and Palestine and what Labour are doing re that, not interested in talking about that today.

                    • Morrissey …
                      5 April 2020 at 3:11 pm

                      I'm asking for evidence that the Labour party has purged members or intends to.

                      If you don't know that the Labour Party is purging human rights activists, you should not be commenting here. I expect to find displays of willful ignorance on Kiwiblog, but not on this normally excellent forum.

                      In terms of your politics around Israel and Palestine and what Labour are doing re that, not interested in talking about that today.

                      The false anti-Semitism smear and the witchhunt and the demand for apologies has everything to do with the "politics around Israel-Palestine." I don't believe, by the way, that you are ignorant about this matter.

                    • Incognito []
                      5 April 2020 at 3:31 pm

                      Morrissey, you run your own blog, IIRC. You should know that many blogs, particularly TS, are not for little tête-à-têtes but for robust debate. Anybody can join in but many read this site without ever commenting. So, when somebody, particularly a Moderator, asks you for evidence to back up your allegations, then please oblige without sounding like a petulant little child. Thanks.

                    • weka …
                      5 April 2020 at 3:33 pm

                      A purging that everyone knows about but for which there is no evidence. Right.

                    • Morrissey …
                      5 April 2020 at 6:55 pm

                      Incognito:

                      I'm not "alleging" that the right wing (Blairite) rump of the Labour Party, which has now manoeuvred itself back into control—a pyrrhic victory if ever there was one—has operated an unrelenting smear campaign against Corbyn and anyone who stands up for the rights of the Palestinians, any more than I would allege that the sun is coming up tomorrow morning or that today is Sunday. It's a fact.

                      https://www.medialens.org/2019/reopening-auschwitz-the-conspiracy-to-stop-corbyn/

                      weka,

                      You say there is "no evidence" of a purge of human rights activists from the Labour Party. This charming little encapsulation of Starmer's agenda comes from the article I provided for you in my original comment on this thread:

                      New opposition chief immediately apologizes to Jews for anti-Semitism in ranks, vows to ‘tear out this poison’….

                      https://www.timesofisrael.com/keir-starmer-elected-uk-labour-chief-apologizes-to-jews-for-party-anti-semitism/

                      When Starmer says "this poison" he doesn't mean anti-Semitism, he means criticism of the Israeli regime. What do you think he means when he says he's going to "tear out" these critics?

                    • Incognito []
                      5 April 2020 at 7:17 pm

                      Morrissey, you could have saved yourself the trouble with those utterances that I personally am not interested in.

                      My concern is your behaviour here and how you respond, or not for that matter, to basic requests for evidence to support your allegations. This is a necessary element of good debate, which we treasure on this site.

                      You have been around here long enough to know how it works. Next time, please just provide the evidence and don’t argue. It is wasting our time and I find it tedious enough to get the ban-hammer out.

                      Over and out.

    • Gabby 6.2
      5 April 2020 at 9:40 am

      Well look where charisma gets us.

    • Incognito 7.2
      5 April 2020 at 12:21 pm

      What is your point, Pete? Are you playing ‘trick or treat’ with us here on TS?

      • Pete George 7.2.1
        5 April 2020 at 3:40 pm

        I thought it was kinda obvious. Robertson said that Clark was "always available" for interviews according to Jason Walls.

        Also Stuff reported Robertson as saying “He’s available to front anytime".

        But Jack Tame pointed out he reneged on a scheduled Q+A interview for today so wasn't always available as stated. RNZ Live referred to it as "a no show'.

        Also from RNZ Live:

        Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern was grilled by journalists as to why Health Minister David Clark has declined some interviews this weekend. She said others had fronted, he was at home at lockdown and he would continue to be available for interviews.

        Tova O'Brien reported:

        Dr Clark refused Newshub's repeated requests for an interview, instead sending a short statement.

        So according to Robertson and Ardern, Clark is "available to front any time" and "would continue to be available for interviews", but according to journalists he isn't.

        The Minister of Health, during the biggest health crisis for decades, is remote from the centre of Government and Ministry of Health activity and is not giving interviews despite the Prime Minister and Minister of Finance saying he is available (knowing he isn't doing interviews).

        Something is obviously not right here.

        • Psycho Milt 7.2.1.1
          5 April 2020 at 3:56 pm

          If he's not giving interviews to gossip columnists who want to rabbit on about him going for a bike ride, then good so. Why should someone in his position indulge such childish bullshit? If they were actually interested in asking him questions about the pandemic and NZ's response to it, it would be dereliction of duty for him to refuse the interviews – but they aren't, and it isn't.

          • Pete George 7.2.1.1.1
            5 April 2020 at 4:03 pm

            Q+A is hardly a gossip column, it's not perfect but it's one of the best political media forums we have.

            With Clark not fronting up Simon Bridges got a spot, and surprisingly he came across well, far different from his usual. Generally supportive of Government actions but with some reasonable questions and criticisms.

            So at least something good came of Clark's no show. Bridges may be capable of rising to the occasion that the current situation requires of our politicians.

            ” it would be dereliction of duty for him to refuse the interviews – but they aren’t”

            Do you have proof of this? I heard O’Brien saying she had specific and relevant (to the pandemic) sounding questions.

            • weka 7.2.1.1.1.1
              5 April 2020 at 4:09 pm

              You mean Tova Woodward?

              https://twitter.com/nz_voter/status/1246623491492728832

              Good move by Clark imo, let's see how much media work he does in the coming week. Journos want to sensationalise a story that should have been over by now. Under normal circumstances that would just be tedious, but under these circumstances it's bizarre.

            • Psycho Milt 7.2.1.1.1.2
              5 April 2020 at 4:48 pm

              PM's press conference today: the first there-were-so-many-I-can't-recall-how-many questions were all about David Clark going for a bike ride. Nothing about Tova O'Brien's previous reporting suggests she'd operate to a higher standard than that, in fact for all I know it was her asking those questions (the questioners aren't identified in the video).

        • weka 7.2.1.2
          5 April 2020 at 4:06 pm

          "and is not giving interviews"

          When was the last time Clark gave an interview then?

        • Incognito 7.2.1.3
          5 April 2020 at 4:08 pm

          What is obvious is that your mind is not like mine, obviously.

          Being available for interviews is not the same as being available for a game of pin the tail on the donkey, no matter how much it appeals to a certain audience and certain pundits who have made a hobby out of reporting on it.

          When something smells a little off, it could be a ripening French cheese. Yum!

          • Pete George 7.2.1.3.1
            5 April 2020 at 4:15 pm

            So how long do you think that Clark should refuse to do interviews (despite Ardern and Robertson saying he is always available) just in case someone asks him an awkward question that he would prefer not to answer?

            Or do you think he should only do interviews with questions he allows in advance?

            Or should Bloomfield, Robertson and Ardern just speak on his behalf. It's not as if he has a very important job, is it.

            • Incognito 7.2.1.3.1.1
              5 April 2020 at 4:19 pm

              I thought it was kinda obvious. During Alert Level 4, he should only do interviews on how to repair punctures when mountain biking in the wild.

        • Pete George 7.2.1.4
          5 April 2020 at 4:10 pm

          I think this tweet speaks for itself, adding to this thread.

          https://twitter.com/oneforthedr/status/1246608668394549250

        • Macro 7.2.1.5
          5 April 2020 at 4:16 pm

          Yap! Yap! Yap!

          Please Pete – Give it a bone.

          There are way more important issues than someone going on a bike ride, even if they are the Minister of Health.

          • Pete George 7.2.1.5.1
            5 April 2020 at 4:23 pm

            I never thought the bike ride was a big deal apart from being embarrassing for Ardern efforts to get people following her message of staying away from risky pastimes.

            But what it has highlighted is a Minister of Health being shielded or hiding away at the most important time for any Minister of Health for decades. That's an important issue. Do we have a functional Minister of Health?

            • Incognito 7.2.1.5.1.1
              5 April 2020 at 4:26 pm

              What’s more important: de we have a scandal that can bring down this Government? Will the PM call a snap election? What do the polls say? What’s for dinner tonight?

              • Pete George …
                5 April 2020 at 4:32 pm

                You attempt at flippancy is a pretty lame attempt at diversion, and I think stupid in the current situation of a pandemic.

                Media have picked up on the MIA issue…

                https://twitter.com/oneforthedr/status/1246617895829819392

                …and that's a big deal for a Minister of Health during an unprecedented pandemic.

                • Incognito …
                  5 April 2020 at 4:34 pm

                  Irony not your strongest point, Pete, i.e. MIA?

                • observer …
                  5 April 2020 at 4:52 pm

                  Do you really not see what Ardern did today? She knew exactly what was coming (our political journos are nothing if not predictable). She fed them a line: "idiots".

                  Then she took the (predictable) questions on Clark and quietly kicked him in the shins. She didn't repeat "idiot", because she didn't need to.

                  She also knew that while a minuscule minority of poli-tragics on blogs might still be getting worked up about Clark, the vast majority of the public are rolling their eyes at the journos (see the social media reaction in real time, which is unspun).

                  What do leaders usually say when one of their team lapses? "It was within the rules …" "I do not condone but …" "What about what about?" etc. Weasel words, which only make it worse.

                  She is smarter than that, and still many can't/won't see it.

                  • Pete George …
                    5 April 2020 at 5:02 pm

                    "Do you really not see what Ardern did today? "

                    Yes, she gave journalists an opening to infer Clark was an idiot, a notion she didn't do much to dispel.

                    If Ardern is smart she won't let this fester away, which is likely if left unaddressed and information is sought from the Minister of Health – he can't go to ground forever.

                    • observer …
                      5 April 2020 at 5:07 pm

                      It isn't festering away. Nobody cares much, except journos who help to make sure nobody cares by going on about it some more. She has political capital in spades, they don't.

                      I don't think you would even recognize her smarts, TBH.

                • Incognito …
                  5 April 2020 at 6:09 pm

                  Have you and other journos [see what I did there?] called out Stuart Nash yet. I heard he’s been spotted in his home gym lifting weights.

            • Muttonbird 7.2.1.5.1.2
              5 April 2020 at 4:32 pm

              And why didn't you bring this up before the bike ride?

            • weka 7.2.1.5.1.3
              5 April 2020 at 4:32 pm

              when was the last time Clark gave an interview?

        • Gabby 7.2.1.6
          5 April 2020 at 5:04 pm

          Not when he's cleaning his chain, obv. I mean come on.

  8. ScottGN 8
    5 April 2020 at 9:49 am

    Virgin Australia has shut down its NZ operations. 600 jobs gone, more than twice as many as the Bauer debacle. No doubt the howls of outrage in the media are coming…?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/413455/loss-of-600-jobs-as-virgin-australia-shuts-its-nz-operations

    • KJT 8.1
      5 April 2020 at 10:27 am

      3000 from Air New Zealand.

    • Graeme 8.2
      5 April 2020 at 10:58 am

      The airline industry is going to be a very sad place for a long time. There's a lot of airlines that have been loosing serious money prior to the covid19 restrictions on travel. Virgin Australia was one.

      This piece from ABC sums it up nicely. Bottom line, Virgin is an overseas owned business and the Australian government is very unlikely to bail them out. Unfortunately some / most of the overseas airlines that own Virgin are worse. Can't see them being around for long.

      The global airline industry will probably resemble the airline industry of the late 60's by the end of this, a few national flag carriers serving their home states and a couple of larger international based ones. And a lot of surplus aluminium parked in the desert. And a lot of people out of work.

      • Poission 8.2.1
        5 April 2020 at 11:14 am

        Virgin is an overseas owned business and the Australian government is very unlikely to bail them out.

        Taleb had a scathing response (and solution)

        https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1243909550819942400

      • Robert Guyton 8.2.2
        5 April 2020 at 11:38 am

        "a lot of surplus aluminium parked in the desert. "

        I wonder how that will affect the prospects of Rio Tinto at Tiwai? Their "best aluminium" claims revolve mainly around aircraft manufacture, I understand.

        • KJT 8.2.2.1
          5 April 2020 at 11:44 am

          Wind turbines?

        • Andre 8.2.2.2
          5 April 2020 at 4:25 pm

          The high purity of the aluminium from Tiwai Point is more valuable for electronics purposes that directly use it in the pure state. The large portion of the output that goes to Japan is used for that.

          High purity aluminium is useless for any kind of structural use, it's much too soft and weak. So it has to be alloyed with significant amounts of other elements, and the tiny quantities of impurities disappear into the tolerances of the alloying proportions. For instance, a common high-performance alloy is 7075 with a recipe that roughly includes 5.6–6.1% zinc, 2.1–2.5% magnesium, 1.2–1.6% copper, and less than a half percent of silicon, iron, manganese, titanium, chromium, and other metals.

          "our high-purity aluminium is valuable for aerospace" makes for a good marketing story, though. It's useful to make locals feel special about what they produce, in order to add to their social license to operate. Even when it's bullshit.

        • Adam Ash 8.2.2.3
          5 April 2020 at 9:17 pm

          Its likely, for the moment, that any subsidies paid to Tiwai will be cheaper than unemployment support for the numerous on and off site staff and losses to the wider community. But the plant owners could pull the plug anytime, which would be sad.

          • KJT 8.2.2.3.1
            6 April 2020 at 7:45 am

            The real shame is that money, which could have been used to develop long term sustainable employment in Southland, has instead been wasted on bribes to Rio Tinto. It would have been cheaper to shut it down, and just continue paying the staff.

            And we have all been paying higher power bills, for decades, for the same reason.

            Other industries and infrastructure, such as electric rail, could have used that power.

      • KJT 8.2.3
        5 April 2020 at 11:40 am

        A necessity to help stop man made global warming.

        But. Still sad for the people out of work.

        • weka 8.2.3.1
          5 April 2020 at 11:50 am

          a faster curve than expected, but we were always going to end up here and I'm relieved it's happening now rather than in 20 years when it's way too late.

          My hope now is that we create sustainable jobs rather than rushing back to the pollution economy.

          • KJT 8.2.3.1.1
            5 April 2020 at 12:05 pm

            I notice the usual suspects gearing up for business as usual.

            Including Federated farmers, trying to get out of ceasing to pollute waterways, and businesses which relied on cheap labour, tax payer support and capital gains, trying to use this an excuse for even more largess from their employees, and the rest of us.

            I don’t have much hope. They are already trying to paint targets on anyone who is against de- regulation and subsidies for polluting businesses.

            • Graeme 8.2.3.1.1.1
              5 April 2020 at 2:47 pm

              Once China has built it's strategic milk powder mountain a shock could be on the way. No markets, or severely fucked markets, will mean much less going off farm.

              Add to that less containers coming into the country full of all the shit we buy from Briscoes et al, so we've got to import empty boxes, and NZ agriculture could be in for a squeeze like it's never seen before.

              • KJT …
                5 April 2020 at 3:30 pm

                I've too many family members in farming, to cheer on, it's reduction.

                However commodity milk powder, was bound to run into a wall, at some stage.

                Not to mention I expect the EU, and others to be trying to make up for lost trade at the same time as us.

                No one who was around at the time, can forget the effects of "lakes of milk and mountains of butter" the EU, can produce, if they want to.

                Expecting agriculture to pull us out of the hole, is not a given.

                And. Our so called “free trade” agreements will prevent us from developing, replacement industry.

              • Poission …
                5 April 2020 at 3:53 pm

                NZ agriculture could be in for a squeeze like it's never seen before.

                Twaddle,demand in china for WMP is increasing due to the CCP expectation that everyone needs to drink 300ml of milk a day.Neither China or NZ can meet that cumulative demand.

                There is also expected a global shortfall in whole foods such as apples,kiwifruit,oranges.and grain due to export restrictions from former CIS states.

                Agriculture is resilient ie antifragile during recessions,whether NZ can sustain the harvest,due to staff shortages or government policy in horticulture (limited selling venues) is the open problem.

                • pat …
                  5 April 2020 at 4:01 pm

                  but at what price?…deflation is a feature of depressions

                  • Poission …
                    5 April 2020 at 4:16 pm

                    Deflation is across the entire economy,as people replace capex etc with the necessary and small treats.

                    During the GFC prices went up,before falling (due to increased supply)

                    http://www.fao.org/worldfoodsituation/foodpricesindex/en/

                    • pat …
                      5 April 2020 at 8:49 pm

                      wishful thinking….you may wish to look a little further back than the GFC.

                      and you may also wish to consider the impact of deflation on debt loadings especially in an already highly leveraged sector

                    • Poission …
                      5 April 2020 at 9:23 pm

                      Think of the cash in the bank.yr on yr.(deposits)

                      Feb 2019. 345,571 (m$)

                      Feb 2020 365,691 (m$)

                      Households holding an extra 7.5 b$

                      As few additional house sales will be transacted over the lockdown period,and those who do not seek mortgage holidays,repayment would also exceed bank household lending.

                      https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/s40-banks-liabilities-deposits-by-sector

                    • pat …
                      5 April 2020 at 9:44 pm

                      your point?….household sector savings have little to do with agricultural debt nor non performing loans.

                    • Poission …
                      5 April 2020 at 10:04 pm

                      Household and domestic savings provide stable liquidity for NZ

                      Agriculture (export) has an interesting built in safety valve,as ahve most commodity currencies.the fast 15% depreciation in the $nz

                      Fuel costs are down so internal transport costs reduce.Working capital interest costs have also been reduced.

                      Staffing for the harvest would be the biggest problem at present.

                    • pat …
                      5 April 2020 at 10:18 pm

                      household sector savings provide protection from offshore impacts including exchange rate fluctuations is true enough…hence the RBNZ increased requirement in recent times…however there is another side to that ledger which somewhat negates your cheerleading…both household debt and total debt has increased more in the same period

                      https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/s30-banks-assets-loans-by-sector

                      The floating exchange rate could be expected to provide (some) protection in normal circumstances however we are looking at a prolonged reduction in worldwide economic activity which is it self deflationary as there will be reduced demand and ability to purchase our goods and our competitors are capable of increasing production at a scale (and will be looking to do so) we cannot cope with even if we had spare capacity , which we dont…and the non commodity imports required for our (now) high input model of ag will not deflate at the same rate.

                      Yes oil is low at the moment but that wont remain the case for long as the russians and saudis will agree to cut production soon enough especially in light of further reduced demand.

                      from your final comment it appears your horizon is around 3 months…..seriously???

                    • Poission …
                      5 April 2020 at 10:33 pm

                      from your final comment it appears your horizon is around 3 months…..seriously???

                      Thats when they make most of their income,ie from the harvest to sustain them over the year.

                    • pat …
                      5 April 2020 at 10:38 pm

                      Nobody told the cows

                • KJT …
                  6 April 2020 at 7:49 am

                  That's what they said to me, the last time I said dairy prices were going to drop steeply.

                  Of course telling me it was "twaddle" didn't stop them going down.

        • Gabby 8.2.3.2
          5 April 2020 at 5:06 pm

          There will be longships to row, no doubt.

      • pat 8.2.4
        5 April 2020 at 11:49 am

        and the fixed costs spread over a smaller pool will necessitate considerable fare increases…cheap travel is gone for the foreseeable (once the dust settles)

        • Graeme 8.2.4.1
          5 April 2020 at 2:49 pm

          Like I said, back to the 60's. Not quite passenger lists in the social pages, but close.

  9. Herodotus 9
    5 April 2020 at 9:52 am

    1st World problems:

    When walking I have noticed the increase of "Dog Mines" just off footpaths 🤬. When giving way to others: using the footpath as a 2m guide walk whilst passing using either side of the grass verge. Be careful watch out for dog poo being tramped thru the house. 😉

    • bwaghorn 9.1
      5 April 2020 at 11:02 am

      You wear shoes inside! How od

      • Herodotus 9.1.1
        5 April 2020 at 1:13 pm

        Only when I enter into our entrance or garage then leave shoes inside front or back door – there is the isolated occasion that there is a need rush inside 😉 – And that will be the one occasion that "stuff" is on the sole of the shoe.

        • bwaghorn 9.1.1.1
          5 April 2020 at 2:39 pm

          As the great philosophy forest gump said .

          Shit happens.

          • greywarshark 9.1.1.1.1
            5 April 2020 at 8:34 pm

            I thought you were a dairyman bwaghorn. Dog poo and cow poo are not in the same race.

            • bwaghorn 9.1.1.1.1.1
              6 April 2020 at 7:07 am

              Wash your mouth out I'm a shepherd.

              Mind I was a dairy farmer but shit really did happen in that game in more ways than one.!

  10. Andre 10
    5 April 2020 at 10:00 am

    A longish but very worthwhile piece on the idea of there being a trade-off between the economy and public health (spoiler: there isn't), with a focus on when and how to back off on restrictions.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/02/coronavirus-economy-reopen-deaths-balance-analysis-159248

  11. Alice Tectonite 11
    5 April 2020 at 10:01 am

    Coronavirus: Man arrested after filming himself coughing on fellow shoppers

    WTF was he thinking? He's lucky no one decked him given how stressed out and on edge many are currently. Hopefully the prick didn't have the disease.

    • dv 11.1
      5 April 2020 at 10:05 am

      Apparently he had a bit too much to drink so wasn't thinking.

      He has been charged.

      I think he should be trespassed from all food shops.

      • Gabby 11.1.1
        5 April 2020 at 5:10 pm

        So the virus does spread by arseole.

      • greywarshark 11.1.2
        5 April 2020 at 8:38 pm

        That sort never thinks. He has no excuse except to apologise humbly for being a natural dork. He should go through a rigorous Army training program to strengthen his discipline muscle.

    • Rosemary McDonald 11.2
      5 April 2020 at 10:11 am

      He clearly has FITH disease.

      It's an hereditary condition so there's likely more like him out there.

  12. adam 12
    5 April 2020 at 10:04 am

    Funny how the corporate media have been avoiding talking about the Biden sexual assault allegations. And then it gets all mixed up in an attack on Alyssa Milano, ever get the feeling women mean nothing in politics, and are just props?

    Please don't do the usual and throw in trump to dilute the debate. I know he's a absolute sexist arse, and anyone not living under a rock knows it too.



  13. Treetop 13
    5 April 2020 at 10:39 am

    I am watching The Nation. I am so fixated on Paul Goldsmith's goggles that I can not concentrate on what he is saying.

    • Gabby 13.1
      5 April 2020 at 11:06 am

      Has he got eye virus?

      • Treetop 13.1.1
        5 April 2020 at 12:36 pm

        I actually did not consider my comment being linked to a virus.

        I tried to get glasses recently and the only pair which suited that I really liked were in the children's section and had a superman on them so were not an option.

        I am finding the styles of frames to be so variable from like thick window frames to looking like goggles.

        The easiest solution is to keep the frames and update the lens.

  14. The Al1en 14
    5 April 2020 at 12:40 pm

    Congratulations to Keir Starmer for taking out the labour leadership contest. Not my choice, who came in third, but thankfully the continuity candidate Wrong Daily fell well short, and with her, the momentum led ultra faction.

    Not only did Starmer have the overwhelming backing of all three voting groups, he also took effective control of the NEC (executive council) after his supporters won in a series of separate elections.

    Starmer describes himself as a socialist but not a Corbynite, and will keep key policies from the Corbyn era, such as nationalising rail, mail and water and repealing anti-union laws, but the hope is he won't be anywhere near as unpopular and unelectable as the biggest labour loser in living memory.

    With 5 years until the next election, and though much needs to be done to shore up and rebuild the red wall, my advice to the new leader is the same I gave Cunliffe when he rose to the top – Don't invite the enemy into the camp, purge. He should also seek to redefine the bond between the party and the unions so the likes of McCluskey are sidelined as much as possible. If he doesn't like it, tough, he can always advise those who pay his large salary to vote tory, though I suspect he'd have a moan and succumb, realising what side his bread is richly buttered on.

    Better luck next time Lisa.

    • Morrissey 14.1
      5 April 2020 at 1:27 pm

      … the hope is he won’t be anywhere near as unpopular and unelectable

      That will depend on whether or not there’s a concerted defamation campaign against him as there was against Corbyn. Starmer was one of the foulest defamers, along with the likes of such intellectual luminaries as J.K. Rowling. Tom Watson, and Rachael Riley.

      The Labour Party in Britain is dead.

  15. Andre 15
    5 April 2020 at 12:57 pm

    Farmers, better lock up your sheep drench. The zombie hordes of the clueless reading about the latest miracle cure are no doubt on their way.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120825594/coronavirus-australian-scientists-discover-head-lice-drug-kills-covid19-in-lab

    • Adrian 15.1
      5 April 2020 at 2:21 pm

      A sheep farming nieghbour of mine has yearly given himself a shot of drench at that time of year. He reckons that if it can't kill a lamb it will have its work cut out on him. It will get him one day, but it had better get a move on, he's 82 and still working.

  16. Andre 16
    5 April 2020 at 1:44 pm

    What the actual fuck??? Just checked my replies tab and the replies to the mozzie's droning whines showed up, not replies to me. I'm struggling to not take it as a personal insult.

  17. Morrissey 17
    5 April 2020 at 3:03 pm

    Recommended reading for weka

    The lockdown gives you and nearly everyone else a chance to actually do some reading.

    https://www.versobooks.com/books/3215-antisemitism-and-the-labour-party

  18. joe90 18
    5 April 2020 at 3:06 pm

    The Economist on antibody testing.

    http://archive.li/JXqnX

  19. joe90 19
    5 April 2020 at 3:54 pm

    Dollars to be made so of course tRump and gHouliani are touting this shit.

    A conservative business group founded by a prolific Republican political donor is pressuring the White House to greenlight an unproven COVID-19 treatment, saying in an online petition that the country has plants in the U.S. ready to produce a drug but can’t because of “red tape, regulation, and a dysfunctional healthcare supply chain.”

    In recent days, Home Depot co-founder Bernard Marcus’ Job Creators Network has placed Facebook ads and texted supporters to sign a petition urging President Donald Trump to “CUT RED TAPE” and make an anti-malarial drug called hydroxychloroquine available for treating those sickened with the virus, one such message obtained by ProPublica reads.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/republican-billionaire-group-pushes-unproven-covid-19-treatment-trump-promoted

  20. Reality 20
    5 April 2020 at 5:18 pm

    All the nit picking, repetitive, sanctimonious Pete George comments seem to indicate he desperate to have a soapbox. Has his own blog closed down?

    Most people have agreed David Clark made a mistake going for his bike ride. It was not at all appropriate at this time. He has apologised, and there now are more important issues to deal with. Yes, the media conferences are no doubt left to the PM and Grant Robertson as the best people to handle the media pack of wolves. Both are very ably doing this. Any crisis of this magnitude has to be tightly managed.

  21. David Mac 21
    5 April 2020 at 6:46 pm

    There are 2 American utube spokespeople attracting viewers in the millions for their daily press briefings at the moment. Trump and Cuomo.

    Cuomo has Trump's measure, he is a better showman.

    Trump had me chortling at his relentless superlatives, Cuomo had me in tears.

    Cuomo doesn't attack Trump, Donald has nowhere to go but praise Cuomo's popular forthrightness. The guy's little brother is a CNN anchor and has just come down with the virus.

    Is it too late for Cuomo to line up against Donald for the Hot Seat? Americans of all stripes are learning to love that guy.

  22. Fireblade 22
    5 April 2020 at 6:52 pm

    My 79 year old Dad has just been taken to Waikato Hospital by Ambulance. He's normally very healthy, but started having breathing difficulties early Sunday morning. He had to go on his own because of the current rules. This is really scary stuff. I don't know what's happening.

    • David Mac 22.1
      5 April 2020 at 7:02 pm

      There are lots of people still getting breathing difficulties that have nothing to do with 19.

      It could be 19 but wait for something decent to worry about before you worry about it too much fireblade.

      Put a call into Waikato Hospital and ask how you can be advised like you were phoning them every 5 minutes but without phoning them every 5 minutes. eg: Be advised of what's going on immediately.

      • Fireblade 22.1.1
        5 April 2020 at 7:14 pm

        Yep, thanks. Will phone Waikato Hospital.

        • Fireblade 22.1.1.1
          6 April 2020 at 12:27 am

          Dad is home again now. The Hospital did an ECG, chest x-ray, Influenza test, Covid-19 test and blood tests. They gave him some medication and he can breath more easily now.

          He water blasted the concrete area behind his house on Saturday afternoon and the Hospital thinks this irritated his lungs. Hopefully the tests will be normal/negative. St John Ambulance and the Waikato Hospital were both fantastic.

    • David Mac 22.2
      5 April 2020 at 7:11 pm

      People are dying overseas because hospitals aren't able to provide artificial lungs until an aged person generates enough of an immune system to counter-act the mongrel.

      Because Jacinda jumped early, we have all the ventilators we need for as long as the patients need them. Worst case scenario, you're still stuck with your grumpy old man.

    • David Mac 23.1
      5 April 2020 at 7:51 pm

      Experimentation? There is no doubt, Rugby, League, NFL, NBL, most sports, chances are you're gonna be better off with a brown person. Music?

      Did you catch Tiki locked down with his family?



  24. joe90 24
    5 April 2020 at 7:59 pm

    Arundhati Roy writes about how Covid19 threatens India.

    She concludes;

    Whatever it is, coronavirus has made the mighty kneel and brought the world to a halt like nothing else could. Our minds are still racing back and forth, longing for a return to “normality”, trying to stitch our future to our past and refusing to acknowledge the rupture. But the rupture exists. And in the midst of this terrible despair, it offers us a chance to rethink the doomsday machine we have built for ourselves. Nothing could be worse than a return to normality.

    Historically, pandemics have forced humans to break with the past and imagine their world anew. This one is no different. It is a portal, a gateway between one world and the next.

    We can choose to walk through it, dragging the carcasses of our prejudice and hatred, our avarice, our data banks and dead ideas, our dead rivers and smoky skies behind us. Or we can walk through lightly, with little luggage, ready to imagine another world. And ready to fight for it.

    https://www.ft.com/content/10d8f5e8-74eb-11ea-95fe-fcd274e920ca

    • Poission 24.1
      5 April 2020 at 8:28 pm

      Nothing could be worse than a return to normality.

      The historical normality of India,is pestilence and famine.The former is here and the later will follow almost surely.

      India – the world’s second-most populous country, where a majority of the population is involved in agriculture – is among the most vulnerable nations to the disruptions.

      Prime Minister Narendra Modi imposed a 21-day lockdown with just a few hours notice on March 25, leaving many of its 120 million migrant laborers struggling to get home and with no money for rent, food or transport.

      The country’s northern grain bowl relies on labor from eastern parts of the country, but workers have left the farms because of the lockdown. [L4N2BO25E]

      “Who is going to fill the grain bags and bring the produce to market, and transport it to mills?” asked Jadish Lal, a merchant in Punjab’s Khanna grain market, the country’s largest.

      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-food-supplies-insi/coronavirus-upends-global-food-supply-chains-in-latest-economic-shock-idUSKBN21L2V7

  25. David Mac 25
    5 April 2020 at 8:45 pm

    Wow, Cuoro is brilliant, he is giving Donald an awful time while leaving no target.

    In his live conference he talks about having no choice but go cap in hand to China and beg for ventilators and masks.

    He just needs to drop the tiniest of 'I wish we could sort this out in our homeland' hints and it hits like a sledge hammer.

    Cuoro is a master story teller. A good story teller doesn't tell, they show, they give us room to create our own narrative. I think Donald has met his match.

  26. Adam Ash 26
    5 April 2020 at 9:35 pm

    The PM’s comments this evening seemed out of her recent character. Her suggestion that we should be grateful we have only 1000 cases instead of the 4000 predicted by some model has drawn cheers from the cheap seats

    On reflection tho, hearing her fishing for praise for her performance to date smacks of a commander briefing her troops for a battle she knows we are about to loose. “Remember me lads! I did my best; honest!” Trying to score political points at this early stage is somewhat worrying.

    What does she know that we don’t, yet?

    • lprent 26.1
      5 April 2020 at 10:10 pm

      It’d pretty much be relief. This is an epidemic exponential growth curve where the infected rate is expected to double every 2-3 days. That means if it was 4000 now, then we could expect it to be somewhere over 16,000 at the end of next week and somewhere over 64,000 the week after.

      Getting the rate down to 1000 after a week and half in lockdown means that the bet that the executive council made in requesting a state of emergency and a epidemic order, plus the steps being taken are actually working. Provided some idiots like those I have fun disparaging here don’t affect progress, we’re more likely to control the epidemic over coming months than we are to lose control.

      You really don’t have to work up a dumb conspiracy theory. Simple relief is sufficient. Now maybe she’ll eat better and get some damn sleep with a reduce stress level.

    • Incognito 26.2
      5 April 2020 at 10:12 pm

      I think she was praising us, all of us, the nation, for our collective performance under testing circumstances.

  27. Muttonbird 27
    5 April 2020 at 10:36 pm

    Great story Andrew, and I'm sure you are a great man and father, but you should be back with your family in the Phillipines as far as as I can see.

    Sorry, but why the hell is the wage subsidy going to migrant workers who then send it off-shore?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12322066

  28. joe90 28
    5 April 2020 at 11:01 pm

    With a grain but it sure looks like the Generals are getting antsy.

    Jair Bolsonaro’s irresponsibility in the face of the SARS-CoV-2 virus crisis may have irritated the Armed Forces into choosing Chief Minister of the Civil House, Walter Braga Netto, as the new operational president of Brazil, it was reported today.

    Brasil 247 portal quoted Argentine investigative journalist Horacio Verbitsky, saying that a high-ranking officer in the Brazilian Army told a peer from Argentina in a telephone conversation, that Bolsonaro is not heard by authorities when making decisions.

    ‘The Brazilian party reported they had made the decision to ignore President Bolsonaro in all important decisions,’ said the communicator on the program. ‘There will be consequences’, says the quote by Radio El Destape.

    Verbitsky stated that Bolsonaro acts as ‘a monarch without effective power’ and that General Walter Braga Netto of the Civil House is now in charge of the country.

    Military website defesanet.com.br, considered the most important news page in the areas of defense, strategy, intelligence and security in Latin America, also confirmed that Braga Neto will be in charge of directing and centralizing all government administration, at least while the crisis lasts due to the Covid-19.

    https://www.plenglish.com/index.php?o=rn&id=54219&SEO=brazilian-media-reports-armed-forces-may-have-named-new-president