What not to do in a pandemic

Written By: mickysavage - Date published: 8:51 am, April 5th, 2020 - 100 comments
Categories: Donald Trump, health, health and safety, jacinda ardern, uncategorized, us politics - Tags: covid-19, Covid19

The Trump Administration’s ability to astound and alienate appears to grow every day. I did not think that as time goes by I could think even worse of it. I mean where is rock bottom? How low can it go? But its recent Covid-19 measures are absolutely jaw dropping.

America is now the world epicentre of the outbreak. It had plenty of time to see it coming. You cannot help but think that a belligerent anti intellectualism is the cause of its problems.

Hannity. Rush. Dobbs. Ingraham. Pirro. Nunes. Tammy. Geraldo. Doocy. Hegseth. Schlapp. Siegel. Watters. Dr. Drew. Henry. Ainsley. Gaetz. Inhofe. Pence. Kudlow. Conway. Trump.

Today, we salute the Heroes of the Pandumbic. pic.twitter.com/35WLDgoHcf
— The Daily Show (@TheDailyShow) April 3, 2020

It now has far more reported cases than any other countries and the avalanche of deaths is clearly on its way.

But now like a swaggering school yard bully it is engaged in of all things modern day piracy to get urgent supplies it should have been planning for months ago.

https://twitter.com/MattGarrahan/status/1246133315184340992

And the day to day response has been left to two people. Mike Pence is in overall control. His abilities are undermined by his handling of and AIDs outbreak in his home state of Indiana. His delay in allowing a needle exchange programme to be implemented caused needless infections. Obviously thoughts and prayers were preferred.

The other is Trump’s son in law Jared Kushner. He has been put in charge of the nation’s Strategic National Stockpile of urgent supplies of equipment and medicines. From Ryan Grenoble at Huffpost:

Jared Kushner was pilloried Thursday after telling reporters at the daily coronavirus briefing that the “federal” Strategic National Stockpile is “our stockpile,” and that, therefore, states shouldn’t rely on it for live-saving materials in the event of an emergency.
It’s a flawed statement at face value, one directly contradicted by language on the Strategic National Stockpile’s website at the time.
“The Strategic National Stockpile is the nation’s largest supply of life-saving pharmaceuticals and medical supplies for use in a public health emergency severe enough to cause local supplies to run out,” the website read.
“When state, local, tribal, and territorial responders request federal assistance to support their response efforts,” it continued, “the stockpile ensures that the right medicines and supplies get to those who need them most during an emergency. Organized for scalable response to a variety of public health threats, this repository contains enough supplies to respond to multiple large-scale emergencies simultaneously.”
Caught in a lie, the Trump administration didn’t correct itself; instead, it changed the website.

This is what the website for the federal stockpile said yesterday vs what it says today, after Kushner was caught lying about how states aren’t supposed to be using it. It was changed to say, “Many states have products stockpiled, as well.” https://t.co/kbNXiwaJbX pic.twitter.com/xAtPKIyHnA
— Laura Bassett (@LEBassett) April 3, 2020

And if you did not think you could think worse about Kushner reports that his real estate companies are aggressively seeking to evict tenants despite moratoriums being called for may change your mind.

Things are that bad that immigration detainees are begging to be allowed to go back to their homelands. From Sam Levin at the Guardian:

Detainees in a US immigration jail are begging to be released after potential Covid-19 exposure, saying the conditions are so brutal that they would rather suffer deportationthan remain locked up.
Three men incarcerated at the Winn correctional center in a remote part of Louisiana told the Guardian that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) has isolated 44 of them together after they were possibly exposed to coronavirus. Some of the detainees are so desperate to leave that they are seeking voluntary deportation. They say their cries for masks, hand sanitizer, gloves and cleaning supplies have gone ignored, including for elderly detainees and those with asthma.
In a series of phone calls, the men described a nightmare ordeal over the last two weeks, citing rampant mistreatment and a terrifying lack of information from Ice after they learned they were under some kind of quarantine. They also said that seven of their fellow detainees were deported on a flight to Colombia this week, four days into a 14-day quarantine period, which would appear to violate basic standards of coronavirus containment.

Of course the problem goes to the top and is about style as well as substance. Talking about personal distancing when being surrounded by acolytes and being beamed out on television is not a way to reinforce the message. And Trump announcing a FDA recommendation to wear facemasks and then immediately stating that he will not be wearing one really undermines the message the FDA was trying to get out.

The rot does not only occur at the top but it seems to pervade Republican ranks. Kerry Eleveld at Daily Kos has published this article noting that the twelve stated without proper stay at home orders are all managed by Republican Governors. The number may have since reduced but you get the drift. From the article:

As of Friday morning, the remaining 12 states that had failed to issue statewide stay-at-home orders were all run by Republican governors.Here’s the Republican governors putting an untold number of lives at risk in the name of so-called “freedom.”

Alabama—GOP Gov. Kay Ivey

Arkansas—GOP Gov. Asa Hutchinson

Iowa—GOP Gov. Kim Reynolds

Missouri—GOP Gov. Mike Parson

Nebraska—GOP Gov. Pete Ricketts

North Dakota—GOP Gov. Doug Burgum

Oklahoma—GOP Gov. Kevin Stitt

South Carolina—GOP Gov. Henry McMaster

South Dakota—GOP Gov. Kristi Noem

Texas—GOP Gov. Greg Abbott

Utah—GOP Gov. Gary Herbert

Wyoming—GOP Gov. Mark Gordon

Some state residents are celebrating the lack of restrictions. “Let’s be honest, what country do we live in?” Brian Joens of Iowa City, Iowa, told USA Today. “It’s the USA, which is freedom, freedom to choose. When we get notes from the government saying do this or do that, it feels like that’s not what this country is built on.”Freedom to choose an increased likelihood of death for both you and your fellow citizens isn’t exactly on what the country was founded. Individual life, liberty, and happiness was never intended to trump the public good of an entire nation. But this is what you get when the chief executive of the country, Donald Trump, fails to exhibit anything resembling clear and consistent leadership.

Meanwhile in Aotearoa New Zealand we all anxiously wait for the new infections figures each day. So far the increase has been linear, not exponential. In about a week’s time we will have a good idea if the current measures are working.

Keep safe, keep your distance, and look after each other. It is going to be an unforgettable week.

100 comments on “What not to do in a pandemic ”

Comments are now closed

Stunned Mullet 1

5 April 2020 at 9:01 am

'At least there was one person who always believed in Jared Kushner, and fortunately for him, that person was the president’s son-in-law, who through a strange coincidence was also himself.'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/04/how-lucky-we-are-have-jared-kushner/#comments-wrapper
Stunned Mullet 2

5 April 2020 at 9:08 am
Anne 3

5 April 2020 at 9:19 am

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/120806164/nz-spies-getting-significant-intel-from-allies-elsewhere-around-the-world-about-coronavirus-case-numbers

This week, Bloomberg reported the US intelligence community believed China had concealed the extent of the outbreak in its country, under-reporting both total cases and deaths.

How about US intelligence community concentrate on the mischievous lies and deceitful practices emanating from their own Federal Government instead of rabbiting on about a foreign government. If China is concealing information – and it probably is – we already know the US Trump administration is doing the same and to the same degree.

Sheesh!
- Andre 3.1
  
  5 April 2020 at 9:23 am
  
  Because they know what happens if they dare to squeak out about misconduct in Covfefe-19's administration: they get fired.
  
  https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-firing-michael-atkinson-whistleblower-ukraine_n_5e87f022c5b6cbaf28294de6
  - Anne 3.1.1
    
    5 April 2020 at 9:56 am
    
    Never though I would say this, but I think it is time for the US military to start making plans to remove this presidential cretin from office. It's only going to get worse not better and the longer it goes on for, the greater the damage not only to themselves but most of the rest of the world.
    - Andre 3.1.1.1
      
      5 April 2020 at 10:07 am
      
      No.
      
      It has to happen at the ballots. And it has to happen hard enough to ram home the message that some things are simply unacceptable and that vote-suppression, gerrymandering etc etc aren't enough to overcome population-wide disgust.
      
      I'm very worried that won't happen.
weka 4

5 April 2020 at 9:53 am

Turns out I was wrong to call Team Tr*mp fascists.

https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/1246417889638449152?s=21

“Some call them fascists; I avoid thid term because being a fascist requires an allegiance to the state. To these operatives, the state is just something to sell.”
Macro 5

5 April 2020 at 10:16 am

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Dr. Anthony Fauci has urged a non-essential employee of the White House Coronavirus Task Force to go home immediately, Fauci confirmed on Friday.

Speaking to reporters, the esteemed virologist said that he made the decision to expel the worker for “the health and safety of others.”

“He said that he felt fine coming to work every day,” Fauci said. “I told him, ‘You may feel fine, but by coming into work you are endangering the lives of countless others.’ ”

….

The employee is expected to spend fourteen hours a day in isolation watching television, a two-hour increase from his normal routine.
Ad 6

5 April 2020 at 10:25 am

Could someone please explain to me why Trump's approval ratings are increasing throughout this crisis?

I have a bunch of Reckons, but no actual analysis.

Is it likely that even with the economy tanking and the death toll rising, Trump now has a better chance at a second term than ever?
- Peter 6.1
  
  5 April 2020 at 10:49 am
  
  The country has a population of about 330 million. It is being run by people like Donald Trump and Jared Kushner with mouthpieces like Kellyanne Conway.
  
  It is absolutely no surprise that a country which comes up with an arrangement like that would have Trump's approval ratings increasing throughout this crisis.
  
  Even in his conference yesterday Trump, who has been on a crusade for more than 5 years to create division and mistrust, referred to 'us' and 'unity.' In recent weeks he has consistently talked about working together.
  
  Explain why his popularity is going up? It is because the majority of population is thick and self-centred.
  - Anne 6.1.1
    
    5 April 2020 at 11:01 am
    
    Explain why his popularity is going up? It is because the majority of population is thick and self-centred.
    
    And for the most part poorly educated.
    
    America has been practicing a dumbing down of their over-all educational systems for decades now and they’re now reaping the reward.
    - Peter 6.1.1.1
      
      5 April 2020 at 11:16 am
      
      Check out his conference from this morning. He's an idiot.
      
      The Time magazine Person of the Year? Chicken feed. The Nobel committee will be struggling over whether it's the literature, physics, chemistry, peace or economics one for him.
      
      Maybe the job lot.
  - KJT 6.1.2
    
    5 April 2020 at 11:55 am
    
    Similar to New Zealand.
    
    The majority of the population are only getting information from their version of Hoskings.
    
    Depressing hearing a neighbour repeating absolute bollocks, from him.
- Andre 6.2
  
  5 April 2020 at 10:50 am
  
  It's a simple rally around the flag and the leader in time of crisis impulse.
  
  Given the scale of the crisis, and that it genuinely came from somewhere "other", what's surprising is how little CovidCamacho's approval has actually risen. And there are signs the bump is already going back down.
  
  So no, I don't think it's going to help Drongo Unbrained in November. There's plenty of time for the scale of the fuckup and utter ineptitude and venal personal advantage taking to come out before November.
  - weka 6.2.1
    
    5 April 2020 at 10:52 am
    
    I'll be really interested to see how Trump supporters handle having people they know die.
    - bwaghorn 6.2.1.1
      
      5 April 2020 at 11:06 am
      
      They'll blame the Chinese as trump has.
      - Wensleydale 6.2.1.1.1
        
        5 April 2020 at 6:41 pm
        
        Or Obama. Everything is Obama's fault, even when it's not.
    - Andre 6.2.1.2
      
      5 April 2020 at 11:11 am
      
      Earlier this week my dad had a heart problem that put him in hospital up in Rawene. If it were New York or Italy or many other places right now, there wouldn't have been resources available and due to his age and medical history he would have been triaged out to fend for himself.
      
      It prompted a flurry of e-mails around extended worldwide family. In France, my sister-in-law and nephew have COVID (presumably he got it from his medical work). In Utah, my cousin and her husband are juggling extended shifts, she in respiratory intensive care and he in emergency department, at a time when they had scheduled leave to be with their recent baby. No deaths yet, but it's definitely hitting home.
      
      So I hope mods will cut me some slack if I get a little reactive if anyone starts minimising COVID here.
      - weka 6.2.1.2.1
        
        5 April 2020 at 11:32 am
        
        I understand Andre.
        
        I think NZers are still in a process of waking up. We're very well insulated despite mass media. And it is a very complex emerging set of dynamics. I got it instinctively when I first read about people dying in hospital corridors in Italy, but I've been thinking about and exploring societal/systems collapse for a long time so I had a whole set of tools for this one (including how to see the creative ways out). Lots of people don't. In the US I'm guessing that it's way worse as people seem to not be getting even the basics around hand/face contact or physical distancing. This speaks to me about a culture that isn't equipped to go online and figure things out for themselves, as well as a huge amount of cognitive dissonance.
        
        One of the things that relaxed me a bit was the day before lockdown I talked to a neighbour I don't know very well. He was still thinking that he was going to get to build his house in a month's time (they just laid the slab), which I think is extremely optimistic. But, he totally got the need for the lock down, it just wasn't even an issue. The only people I've seen really not getting it are tourists and the Queenstown partying backpacker types, which can be explained in other ways (although thinking about it now, that might well be cultural too).
        
        The US cultures boggle my mind. All the best for your family, I'm hoping that being aware and smart gives a better advantage.
      - Macro 6.2.1.2.2
        
        5 April 2020 at 11:36 am
        
        I wish to echo weka's sentiments above entirely Andre – all the best for you and your family here and abroad.
      - lprent 6.2.1.2.3
        
        5 April 2020 at 11:47 am
        
        Ummm have you read my most recent post? I’m not exactly shy of getting reactive with the ignorant either.
        
        Andre 6.2.1.2.3.1
        
        5 April 2020 at 11:53 am
        
        Yeah. But you can dish out consequences. I'm not a mod. I can only be on the receiving end of consequences.
        
        lprent …
        
        5 April 2020 at 12:00 pm
        
        But I have to be self-moderating as well. I can’t run this site on my own.
        
        I like a system that carries implicit checks and balances.
      - Ad 6.2.1.2.4
        
        5 April 2020 at 11:51 am
        
        Rawene is such a cool place, but it would be a tough place to be stuck in. I've got uncles in hospital at the moment as well.
        
        I'm really thankful that so many of your family are putting themselves right out there to help people medically at this time. What a great bunch of family to be proud of.
      - Incognito 6.2.1.2.5
        
        5 April 2020 at 12:38 pm
        
        I wish you well.
      - mary_a 6.2.1.2.6
        
        5 April 2020 at 3:06 pm
        
        Sorry to hear that Andre. I wish your family well for their complete recovery.
        
        The deadly seriousness of CV19 should not be ignored.
        
        Kia Kaha, stay safe and take good care of yourself.
      - Andre 6.2.1.2.7
        
        5 April 2020 at 3:15 pm
        
        Thanks for the thoughts everybody.
        
        Getting reports from family on how rough COVID-19 really is just reinforces how we are doing the right thing here to absolutely minimise the number of us affected here. Good thing that's also the best way economically to handle it.
        
        patricia 6.2.1.2.7.1
        
        5 April 2020 at 5:46 pm
        
        Andre, I hope all works out for you and yours. We have lost a family member in Sydney, and the hardest thing is not being able to visit and hug and be there for family. This is a cruel virus.
        
        Andre …
        
        5 April 2020 at 5:57 pm
        
        I'm very sorry to hear that, patricia. Look after yourself and yours.
  - Macro 6.2.2
    
    5 April 2020 at 11:03 am
    
    There are a few Republicans who are now speaking up against Trump.
    
    I think as the pandemic begins to hit the Redneck states they may begin to see they have been worshiping a false god. And in the meantime I see that the Murdoch's are being sued over false reporting leading to death.
    
    This ad was played n Faux News.
    - Macro 6.2.2.1
      
      5 April 2020 at 11:07 am
      
      Link to the Law suits following False Reporting on Fox News
  - Ad 6.2.3
    
    5 April 2020 at 11:53 am
    
    The Fivethirtyeight tracking is still making me nervous.
    
    Pretty sick to even have to think about needing a global disaster to unseat such a corrupt world leader.
- bill 6.3
  
  5 April 2020 at 11:16 am
  
  Stuff like this Ad. Oh. And a brain dead fart who wanted people to go out and vote in person this Tuesday is the alternative being made available to US voters.
  
  Carlo Gaytan 5 hours ago
  
  Bernie: Medicare for all.
  
  Dems: No!
  
  Trump: Medicare for Covid.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAoaMaFvh-E
  
  Dems: *Surprised pikachu face
  - Ad 6.3.1
    
    5 April 2020 at 11:57 am
    
    I've been thinking the same even though I've never warmed to Sanders.
    
    How much more effective the U.S. health system would be now if they had a single national purchaser – like Pharmac. Or a federal public health system at all.
    
    Its got to be one of the cruelest twists of political fate that Sanders rose and stalled out of synch with the rise of Covid-19. If Covid-19's rise had been 2 months earlier, I'm sure Sanders would have had a better shot at the nomination.
- Andre 6.4
  
  5 April 2020 at 11:31 am
  
  Here's as piece explaining the rally around the flag effect.
  
  https://www.wired.com/story/political-science-behind-trump-approval-ratings/
  
  If you want info on how the poll bounce is already starting to fade, just google something like trump covid poll bounce.
  - Ad 6.4.1
    
    5 April 2020 at 12:03 pm
    
    Appreciate the article Andre.
    
    It's not a great comfort that Bush got a higher peak during the height of the GFC.
    
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/04/02/approval_ratings_amid_crises_comparing_trump_obama_bush_142838.html
    
    Sometimes I wonder if it's too late for Andrew Cuomo to do what his dad Mario couldn't do.
    - Andre 6.4.1.1
      
      5 April 2020 at 12:07 pm
      
      That will only happen if Biden becomes incapacitated and the Dems need to draft someone in.
    - Andre 6.4.1.2
      
      5 April 2020 at 12:16 pm
      
      It has occurred to me numerous times that if Rachel Bitecofer is on the right track and negative partisanship is more important than partisanship, then disapproval ratings might matter more than approval ratings.
      
      On disapproval ratings, things look even worse for Jabba the Drumpf's re-election than they do if you just look at approval ratings.
- Bruce 6.5
  
  5 April 2020 at 1:21 pm
  
  Bill Maher has a view
  
  https://www.facebook.com/Maher/videos/232702024476540/?__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARAy4d0FnyO7gQX-d2_xV3l2Tg-7MgjHXHIt-Yox487U-ttNGU5RcolieB9Tv7R2rk0ZWymai9tPn7Dl
- UncookedSelachimorpha 6.6
  
  5 April 2020 at 2:14 pm
  
  Because
- AB 6.7
  
  5 April 2020 at 6:32 pm
  
  Because the US is swamped in highly partisan 'news' but is actually an information desert – unless you are already a sceptic of mainstream sources and seek out alternatives, (i.e. chicken and egg).
  
  Because Biden is actually the least electable of the alternatives to Sanders – but the Dems had to coalesce around someone at the point where Sanders was looking most dangerous. They must be crapping themselves now, and Biden is clearly unable to say anything that shows he comprehends, let alone has any solutions for, the problems of the times. He's simply an empty vessel into which anti-Sanders panic has been poured.
  
  Because the C-19 death toll is in 4-figures still. What if it gets to 6-figures? Or 7? If Trump is widely perceived to have blood on his hands, then Biden has a chance. This is a real ''lesser of two evils' dilemma. It will be a rich irony if Fauci (and the despised world of rationality, ethics and collective responsibility he represents) saves the sociopath Trump's electoral bacon.
Whispering Kate 7

5 April 2020 at 10:30 am

Mind boggling to say the least. It could only happen in the US. I have family there and I pray for their health and safety every day. The man is certifiable and its going to have to take somebody brave enough to either finish him off and suffer the consequences or have him removed quietly and sectioned under the mental health laws they have.
- Muttonbird 7.1
  
  5 April 2020 at 10:34 am
  
  An assassination? Not really the preserve of the Left.
- Grafton Gully 7.2
  
  5 April 2020 at 5:46 pm
  
  When the Covid 19 pandemic ends Trump will be the president who led Americans to victory over the Chinese Virus.
Sabine 8

5 April 2020 at 10:38 am

but her fucking emails.
- mickysavage 8.1
  
  5 April 2020 at 10:44 am
  
  Heh.
- weka 8.2
  
  5 April 2020 at 11:05 am
  
  lol.
Macro 9

5 April 2020 at 10:44 am

An another recent firing from the current Administration – More on this later. But it appears that tRump and his cronies are about running a marfia like operation similar to that which he ran before IMPOTUS selling crap cement.

https://talk.whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/uploads/default/original/2X/e/e21435c58b5d5c83415216374c953f0c5669409f.jpeg

[removed the embed as the image was way too big, people can click through – weka]
- Macro 9.1
  
  5 April 2020 at 10:46 am
  
  https://twitter.com/NoahBookbinder/status/1246444523900801027
- Macro 9.2
  
  5 April 2020 at 11:22 am
  
  So who are the persons to be responsible for overseeing the $2T bailout spend?
  
  President Trump on Friday named a White House lawyer to be the chief watchdog to oversee the spending of $2 trillion in coronavirus stimulus money.
  
  Brian D. Miller, a special assistant to the president and a senior associate White House counsel, will serve as Special Inspector General for Pandemic Recovery inside the Treasury Department.
  
  https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/trump-names-white-house-lawyer-be-watchdog-over-coronavirus-bailout#.Xofu6fbukcI.twitter
  
  Note that the analysis that follows is by John Solomon, the asshole who created the false Ukraine meddling story. Just the News is his new venture, so you can take the opinion piece with a huge grain of salt.
  
  But very convenient to have a lapdog lawyer as your watchdog.
Paddington 10

5 April 2020 at 11:00 am

Look, Trumps a plonker, but lines like " It now has far more reported cases than any other countries…" are just plain misleading, becasue they fail to take account of population. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ contains up to date per person data, and the US is not as bad off as you are trying to make out. In the total cases per 1000 and total deaths per 1000 they don't even rank in the top 20 nations.
- Incognito 10.1
  
  5 April 2020 at 1:03 pm
  
  Have a look at the graphic entitled Total Coronavirus Deaths in the United States on a logarithmic scale.
  
  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
  
  Your comment is equally misleading.
  - Paddington 10.1.1
    
    5 April 2020 at 2:46 pm
    
    My comment takes the same time stamp as ther authors (here and now), and applies mathematical logic to that to provide perspective. The authors takes a laregly meaningless piece of data as a whip to beat Trump. It's misleading.
    - Incognito 10.1.1.1
      
      5 April 2020 at 2:51 pm
      
      In other words, you object to criticism of Trump, but you fail to take the trajectory up to this point in time into account? That’s not misleading, that’s denial at its best. How Trumpian of you.
      - Paddington 10.1.1.1.1
        
        5 April 2020 at 4:50 pm
        
        Geez I most certainly don’t object to criticism of Trump. I object to comments that are blatantly misleading.
        
        Incognito 10.1.1.1.1.1
        
        5 April 2020 at 6:03 pm
        
        Your objection has been noted.
        
        The trajectory of the US is one of the worst but you keep ignoring that inconvenient fact.
        
        lprent 10.1.1.1.1.2
        
        5 April 2020 at 8:58 pm
        
        What is there to say about Trump – the great ditherer…
        
        He couldn't project a trajectory to clasp his arse… He’d keep doing u-turns.
        
        Perhaps you should look at the advertisement that his own party partisans have made about his performance on Covid-19.
        
        https://youtu.be/s2QLxGAlu18
        
        That kind of dithering will cause the US to get the highest death rate per capita over the next couple of weeks.
        
        But I guess this other GOP supporters ad won’t convince you because clearly you have your head stuck up your arse as well.
        
        https://youtu.be/7gJgmkWJ6es
        
        I wonder what they’ll produce after these scenes from New York start to impact. The US is currently at more than 1000 deaths per day and increasing exponentially – probably for at least 2-4 weeks.
        
        https://youtu.be/Xxqq8nLYqdY
        
        Paddington …
        
        5 April 2020 at 8:59 pm
        
        Oh I agree with all that. Doesn't make the claim MS made any less misleading.
        
        Incognito …
        
        5 April 2020 at 9:35 pm
        
        I’d call it prescient because it’s about a train wreck in slow motion and everyone can see it except you, it seems. You’re being misled by your own pedantry.
        
        Paddington …
        
        5 April 2020 at 9:59 pm
        
        You don't seem to be following. I agree about Trump, ok? He's a dick. Can't you honestly see that it is possible to agree with you but still call out a misleading comment?
        
        McFlock …
        
        5 April 2020 at 10:07 pm
        
        Except it wasn't actually misleading.
        
        USA does have more cases than any other nation, including the two nations with much greater populations. An avalanche of dead is indeed on its way. And the responsibility for that sits in the white house.
        
        Incognito …
        
        5 April 2020 at 10:09 pm
        
        I don’t care whether you agree about Trump (with me??), never have, and never will. I’ve never said anything about Trump, have I? You raised a strawman.
        
        Micky’s comment was not misleading but you are and were misled, but not by Micky’s comment.
        
        Let’s at least agree on that.
        
        Paddington …
        
        6 April 2020 at 9:54 am
        
        "I’ve never said anything about Trump, have I? You raised a strawman. "
        
        Ah, wrong. https://thestandard.org.nz/what-not-to-do-in-a-pandemic/#comment-1698415
        
        Incognito …
        
        6 April 2020 at 11:33 am
        
        FFS! Did I say anything for or against Trump and/or did I express an opinion about Trump per se? You said that you agreed on Trump, but there was and still isn’t anything to agree on in this regard!? You made it up. I’m pretty sure I’ve noted this before but you seem to have an issue with reading comprehension.
        
        Paddington …
        
        6 April 2020 at 12:15 pm
        
        " I’ve never said anything about Trump, have I? "
        
        That's what you claimed. Nothing about "expressing an opinion". It’s not me that has a comprehension problem. You’re following me around this thread making yourself look worse than Trump.
- McFlock 10.2
  
  5 April 2020 at 1:21 pm
  
  Without getting into a semantic debate about what territories in that list don't count as "nations", just leave it a while. 34k new cases a day (and climbing), it won't take too long for the US to be "number one" in every covid19 metric you care to select.
  - Paddington 10.2.1
    
    5 April 2020 at 2:48 pm
    
    You're most likely right. Unfortunately. I have good friends who live in NYC, and an employee in NJ. Interestingly, all are Trump supporters. I'm not sure if it's their actual political view or just the entertainment value!
- joe90 10.3
  
  5 April 2020 at 4:02 pm
  
  Comparable to the worst hit region.
  
  https://twitter.com/MedCramVideos/status/1246098615447080960
  - Paddington 10.3.1
    
    5 April 2020 at 4:57 pm
    
    1. Europe is NOT a country.
    
    2. The US has less cases per 100 people than countries such as Luxembourg, Iceland, Spain, Switzerland, Italy, Belgium, France Austria, Germany, Portugal, Norway and more. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/.
    
    BTW – I am not, I repeat NOT defending Trump. He's a donkey. I'm simply pointing out that claiming the US has the highest number of cases in the world is misleading.
    - Incognito 10.3.1.1
      
      5 April 2020 at 5:56 pm
      
      Ok then, which country has more cases than the US?
      
      Answer: none.
      
      Verdict: case closed.
      - Paddington 10.3.1.1.1
        
        5 April 2020 at 6:27 pm
        
        There are several, if you use the common comparison of per capita. But you seem fine with meaningless data, so who cares?
        
        Edit – this will appeal to you. The US spends $36m on scotch each year. The Spanish spend $20m. The US has a population of 327m. Spain has a population of 47m. By your loigc, it would be reasonbale to claim that the yanks drink more scotch than their spanish counterparts. But that would be misleading, right?
        
        Incognito 10.3.1.1.1.1
        
        5 April 2020 at 6:33 pm
        
        It is “meaningless” to look at one data point and one time point in isolation, trajectories and trends are much more informative.
        
        In Vino …
        
        5 April 2020 at 7:43 pm
        
        Paddington's usual tactic is to cherry-pick stats that suit him, and deflect or deny those that don't. Joe90 clearly stated – ' the CONTINENT of Europe' (my capitals) as comparable in size to the US. Paddington then tries to score by pointing out the obvious as a big, single paragraph:
        
        "1. Europe is NOT a country." Relevance, when Joe90 never said it was ??
        
        Paddington then cherry-picks European countries…
        
        I have been around a while, and Paddington's language patterns vaguely remind me of an earlier pest. Strange…
        
        Paddington …
        
        5 April 2020 at 8:54 pm
        
        This discussion is about MS's comments about the US. Not the America's. My subsequent response was about countries, not continents. Perhaps if you kept up with the thread you might understand.
        
        "Paddington then cherry-picks European countries… "
        
        There it is again – you're not keeping up. I havn't cherry picked anything. The European countries I quoted were from the dataset at worldometers. They were selected from the countries above the US in #'s per 1000 becasue that was my point. I could list them all, if you like. I apologise if I'm movng too fast for you.
        
        Incognito …
        
        5 April 2020 at 10:03 pm
        
        I apologise if I'm movng [sic] too fast for you.
        
        Ironically and tragically at the same time, you’re not moving at all; you’re stuck in a single groove.
        
        Paddington …
        
        5 April 2020 at 8:50 pm
        
        But the comment I was referring to was " It now has far more reported cases than any other countries…". “Now”. No trajectories or trends in that comment. Maybe you've lost track of that?
        
        Incognito …
        
        5 April 2020 at 9:14 pm
        
        Ah, yes, I got sucked into a rabbit hole by a bear called Paddington.
        
        That comment is correct because the US has the most cases of any country “Now”. Ergo it is not misleading.
        
        Paddington …
        
        6 April 2020 at 10:02 am
        
        A comment can be both correct and misleading.
        
        Incognito …
        
        6 April 2020 at 11:41 am
        
        Micky’s comment was factually correct.
        
        It was not intentionally misleading but you interpreted it as such. In other words, you misled yourself AKA you made it up.
        
        Your comprehension skills are lacking for you to make useful contributions to debate here. That’s my observation and my conclusion over a period of time. Consequently, we’re wasting our time reading and responding to your pedantic comments. Please change your ways here, thanks.
        
        Paddington …
        
        6 April 2020 at 12:12 pm
        
        "It was not intentionally misleading "
        
        I didn't say it was. You show a definite lack of reading comprehension skills.
        
        Paddington …
        
        6 April 2020 at 12:25 pm
        
        "Your comprehension skills are lacking for you to make useful contributions to debate here. "
        
        Mmm. Sounds like "I don't like it when you criticise an author so I'm going to threaten you". You've made a mountain out of a molehill. That says far more about you than me.
        
        Incognito …
        
        6 April 2020 at 3:41 pm
        
        Again, you’re making up things. Where’s the “threat”? Do you want to be treated like Climaction?
        
        Paddington …
        
        6 April 2020 at 6:40 pm
        
        "Where’s the “threat”? "
        
        "Consequently, we’re wasting our time reading and responding to your pedantic comments. Please change your ways here, thanks. "
        
        Or what? You see, there's the threat. You're effectively saying "tow the line or your out". As it happens you don't have to spend any time responding to me. You could simply ignore me. I'm not being offensive. You really are obsessed with this, and its pretty clear from some of your comments sincve that you've lost any sense of objectivity.
        
        Incognito …
        
        6 April 2020 at 6:58 pm
        
        Please, stop being so defensive, thanks. If there had been a consequence to my Q asked in a polite manner – did you notice I said “please” and “thanks”? – I would have spelled it out, especially for you. If it were serious enough, I would have given you a clear and instructive Moderator warning, with a consequence. Did you notice any of this? No, you didn’t, and you keep on seeing things that are not there, e.g. imaginary threats – I believe you are more likely to catch COVID-19 than meet the ban-hammer here. Again, are you asking for that kind of treatment or are you just trying to provoke me? My alleged obsession hasn’t quite reached those lofty heights yet, I’m afraid. So, why don’t you just let it go?
        
        Paddington …
        
        6 April 2020 at 6:41 pm
        
        BTW – who is Climaction, what did he/she do and what happened to him/her? And wtf does it even matter to me?
        
        Incognito …
        
        6 April 2020 at 7:03 pm
        
        Don’t you read the comments on this site or are you just very selective?
        
        Nothing has happened with that aforementioned commenter, it was merely an illustration that was lost on you (AKA woosh!). It obviously doesn’t matter to you – I like your strong language there. My sincerest apology for the confusion. I shall not bother myself with you anymore in this thread.
        
        Paddington …
        
        6 April 2020 at 7:07 pm
        
        "Don’t you read the comments on this site or are you just very selective?"
        
        I'm selective. I've never heard of Climaction. I assumed, based on your comment "Do you want to be treated like Climaction?" that he/she was a commenter.
    - joe90 10.3.1.2
      
      5 April 2020 at 6:44 pm
      
      1. Europe is NOT a country.
      
      No shit!
      
      Meanwhile, not a country NY state has twice the number of cases /capita than Italy and is closing in on the same number of deaths /capita.
      
      /
- theotherpat 10.4
  
  7 April 2020 at 7:41 am
  
  they lose just as many folks to the normal flu each year…something somewhere is amiss
joe90 11

5 April 2020 at 11:01 am

Wen your CIC is a gangster.

https://twitter.com/JesseAPaul/status/1246276504599711744
- joe90 11.1
  
  5 April 2020 at 8:35 pm
  
  Of course...
  
  Hillary Rodham Clinton (D)…..74,242
  
  Donald J. Trump (R)…..55,638
  
  Gary Johnson (L)…..3,174
  
  https://twitter.com/Burrite/status/1246539634122899456
bill 12

5 April 2020 at 11:33 am

Also today, three services (in Somerset, Derbyshire and East Sussex) where GPs have contacted the teams to say that they have deemed the people we support should ALL be DNR. No consultation with families, no best interests. Mostly working age adults. We will fight this.

That's a tweet from Andrew Cannon who is the CE at Voyage Care – supporting adults with physical and learning disabilities, brain injuries and autism.

https://twitter.com/VoyageCEO/status/1245415024396587008
mauī 13

5 April 2020 at 11:59 am

Q.“Are you confident that the federal government is doing everything that needs to be done right now to contain this?”

Most respected US man on coronavirus who has worked under 6 presidents,

A. "Yes".

NEW: @jonkarl: “Are you confident that the federal government is doing everything that needs to be done right now to contain this?”“Right now, Jon, yes. Absolutely,” Dr. Anthony Fauci says on federal response to coronavirus threat. https://t.co/YJ2h02tqtA pic.twitter.com/uaByintRuB— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) March 15, 2020

https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

Democrats: Hoping this might be 4th time lucky for impeachment.
- joe90 13.1
  
  5 April 2020 at 12:21 pm
  
  ~~but her fucking emails~~ but impeachment
  
  /
  https://twitter.com/stevesilberman/status/860595784424620034
- Drowsy M. Kram 13.2
  
  5 April 2020 at 1:06 pm
  
  That may have been Dr Fauci's honest belief three weeks ago ("right now").
  
  In the light of recent events, some scientists and clinicians could be 'recalculating'.
  
  Trump’s ‘hunches’ versus science
  "Trump took to describing himself as a “wartime president”, with Covid-19 as the enemy. But his dogged pursuit of his own instincts, his preference for letting his “hunches” lead the nation into battle rather than deploying the weaponry of evidence and science, has been the hallmark of his response to the contagion so far."
  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/04/trump-coronavirus-science-analysis
- Anne 13.3
  
  5 April 2020 at 7:59 pm
  
  No doubt Dr.Fauci is keen to keep his head.
ScottGN 14

5 April 2020 at 1:11 pm

Ardern is really going after the ‘don’t let the cure be worse than the disease’ gang right now.
- Drowsy M. Kram 14.1
  
  5 April 2020 at 1:29 pm
  
  Rightly so if the information posted by Poisson is anything to go by:
  
  "A strong lockdown would minimize both the harm to individuals, as well as the economy. "https://thestandard.org.nz/children-the-pandemic-has-only-just-begun/#comment-1698294
McFlock 15

5 April 2020 at 1:26 pm

As for the conditions in the "detention centers": what sort of concentration camp system doesn't encourage infectious diseases? A badly-designed one.
- Paaparakauta 15.1
  
  8 April 2020 at 12:19 pm
  
  Very good point, and historically true.