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Open mike 05/05/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 5th, 2022 - 74 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

74 comments on “Open mike 05/05/2022 ”

  1. Blazer 1

    NZ Immigration has been a soft touch for too long imo.

    These two need to be extradited…

    'Sroubek told the Parole Board he still feared for his safety if he was deported to his country of birth, where he claims he witnessed a murder.'

    'Justice Minister called 'callous' for not yet answering suspect's plea to be spared extradition to China | Stuff.co.nz

    I believe the U.S.A and Singapore have death penalties.

    • Craig H 1.1

      Sroubek was made liable for deportation by the Minister of Immigration and the case is being appealed somewhere in the judicial system. Deportation is blocked while appeals are pending, so INZ is not legally able to do anything.

      Extradition is not an immigration matter – it's not deportation, and it's handled by the justice system.

  2. Patricia Bremner 2

    Here in Rotorua it is a calm blue day. In the garden the chrysanthemums are beautiful, covered in mauve flowers and loved by the bees. The trees in the garden and park view are glorious in reds and golds. It is a cool 13 degrees but will get warmer.

    Just thought I'd post something cheerful for a change. Thankful for my lot.

  3. Anker 3

    I am almost reluctant to post it after Patricia’s post about her garden! Good to be grateful for what we have.

    I agree with Bryce that Mallards call was either petty or poor judgement, probably both.

    Tangata Whenua, (Winston’s) being blocked from parliament! Where’s Willie Jackson when you need him.

    • This is what I posted yesterday on TS Anker, and I stand by it:

      I'm with Mallard. That nasty bunch-Hide, Fox, Peters and King-gave succor and mana to that illegal and vicious protest outside parliament.

      2 years isn't long enough.

      Bryce Edwards invariably takes the populist (usually right-leaning) point of view-he is not a thinker like Chris Trotter etc.

      • Tony 3.1.1

        Mallards illegal and ridiculous move is going to cost votes, along side Michael Woods disgusting comments about the protesters, a third of whom WERE Labour supporters .. how to blow an election well done guys!

        • AB

          Michael Wood tried to distinguish the individuals concerned from some of the ideologies that animated them – and maybe had even set out to capture them precisely because of their private vulnerabilities. It was the ideas, not the people, that were the river of filth. It's a useful distinction if you want to actually engage with reality, but one too subtle for a moronic age. Wood should have known this and not said it.

          Trev is a bit of a goose. No matter how outraged he was by the whole thing, if he had an ounce of political nous he would have never let the ban occur. Ironically, in the case of Matt King and Stephen Franks, because they have always been off in far-right, anti-statist lala land, they did actually belong among the protesters and did deserve to be banned. Peters' actions were much more cynical and politically calculating – and therefore more reprehensible. Mallard should never have walked into such an obvious trap.

          • Dennis Frank

            Mallard should never have walked into such an obvious trap.

            He should look where he's going. Open season on mallards the day after tomorrow! Says so here:


            His survival may depend on taking a sudden holiday in Hawaii. Or Timbuktu.

            • AB

              From your link: "Today there are about 4.5 million mallards, so many that they are sometimes a nuisance…" Yep.

            • Binders full of women

              He will holiday in Washington or London as ambassador cos jacinda loves him. I hate him. He was mean to me. Stopped voting labour cos of him.

              • Patricia Bremner

                How was he mean to you?

                • Binders full of women

                  Back in the days of the Redalert Labour blog. Had a go at me and my work status in a reply which lead me to believe he had (as an admin) creeped around my deets. He's a bully.

          • Tony

            Absolute rubbish AB ..A river of filth a river of violence a river of menace a river of Anti-Semitism A river is Islamaphobia a river of threats to the people who work in this place and our staff and also a river of fascism .. He was indeed talking about people, not ideas. Ideas don't hurt people .. I am going to door knock every house in his electorate and let people know what kind of arsehole represents them close to Election time, he calls himself a conservative christian and by their fruits you shall know them, I will make sure people are aware of his words. You say too subtle for a moronic age, your words betray you to be the moron …

            • AB

              Perhaps we were looking at different things Tony. I took it as self evident that Wood was referring to what these people said and what they did – not to who they intrinsically are. But we will never agree – which is fine by me.

              • Tony

                AB, what we say and do is who we are .. get it? He was referring to Human beings not ideas, self evident indeed!

            • Patricia Bremner

              Ideas don't hurt people

              Oh yes they do. If dangerous ideas, which cause harm get hold of people, those ideas may cause huge harm. History proves that.

              Just do some reading about Salem.

        • Patricia Bremner

          Tony he was referring to online horrible misogynist cruel lies being spread about the P.M. and her partner and others. Just filthy stuff. That is what he meant by "River of filth". Not the people.

          • Shanreagh

            Of course this is the correct interpretation Patricia but it does not suit those making the type of comment made by Tony above. Obviously he/they did not read the actual speech or place it in its context.

            • Tony

              Shanreagh, show me in the speech where he says he is talking about ideas? He is an ugly person and needs to be held to account for such words ..

          • Tony

            I read and watched the whole speech it was vile ..

          • Tony

            Patricia Bremner, what horrible misogynist cruel lies about PM and her partner and others are you talking about? I do know there are two sticks of dynamite that are going to explode into the public arena which will destroy any chance of Labour regaining power for at least two election cycles.

            • Robert Guyton

              Two sticks?

              Do tell, Tony!

              Unless you … can't.

              • Tony

                Robert Guyton I can't share the substance of the explosive material but I do predict a change of leadership ..
                ps Robert do you know Larry Wehner from Barrytown?

                • Robert Guyton

                  Tony – darkly alluding to a "bomb-shell" of national significance then failing to follow-up with any substance whatsoever, is the poorest form imaginable. If you can't "put-up", then …well, you know the rest.

                  I don't recognise Larry – ought I to know him? I interact with many people and my mind/memory is not a steel-trap! 🙂

                  • Tony

                    Robert Guyton, I have given you the outcome before the bomb has exploded, is that nothing? A change of leadership no less ..

                    • Robert Guyton

                      That's worse than nothing, Tony – mere speculation at best, dirty politics at worst. It reflects badly on you that you allude to juicy news, but can't and won't deliver. Best you butt out.

                    • Tony

                      Robert Guyton what juicy news and speculation are you talking about? I made a prediction let's wait and see what unfolds. You overstep the mark when you think you can make anyone butt out sorry Robby ..

                    • Robert Guyton

                      I predict – a damp squib for Tony.

                    • solkta

                      Looks like, walks like, smells like dirty politics.

                  • Anne

                    Doing a Winston Peters? Alluding to sinister goings-on which never eventuated, or is it another crackpot story about Clarke Gayford. Has he kidnapped a couple of young women and got them hidden in a cave? (sarc)

            • Patricia Bremner

              Tony if you really know something, just go to the Police. There have been awful things online and whispered about. However the Police say there is no case for the PM's partner to answer. The things said about the PM and women in the Health Ministry are just vile misogyny.

              Store your two sticks of dynamite carefully won't you. It has been known to weep and become gelignite and harms those who handle it.

              • Tony

                Patricia Bremner, thank you for your advice, rest easy I am carrying no dynamite on my person, it's information on the ground and the Police are well notified, maybe I could have described it as a ticking time bomb ..

                • Patricia Bremner

                  Tony, I watched Michael Woods' speech.

                  There was nothing in there he should resile from. He spoke about "a river of filth coming from some with threats to kill', islamaphobia and the far right, feeling sad for those mislead by misinformation who were out the front of Parliament, those who have been hurt by decisions which protect the many, (MIQ) and progress with wages for essential workers, and the rail decisions. He expressed full support of and pride in Jacinda Ardern and her clarity of purpose to protect as many as possible.

                  I think you are a fevered young Nat, believing gossip. You need more than that. You say "The Police are aware" so we will leave it in their hands shall we? As you say, time will tell.

        • Muttonbird

          A third, you say? So a far lower ratio than that which actually ticked Labour last election.

          Makes sense.

      • Chris 3.1.2

        Yes, Edwards is certainly not a thinker.

      • Patricia Bremner 3.1.3

        Bearded Git, Bryce seldom mentions the changes made to make Parliament an inclusive work place. A place where MP mothers and fathers could bring their young.

        Not to mention companion animals, a children's playground and a rest room and creche. The Speaker was often seen holding babies for busy Mums.

        It is easy for Bryce to condemn from his Ivory Tower. I doubt he has had the difficult times this Parliament and the members have, Trevor Mallard has made mistakes in the past, as all people do, but Bryce did not mention his saving graces, just his flaws.

        There is a growing narrative which loses the threats and physical verbal visual and spitting assaults by a number of protestors. Bryce calls it "A protest March' when it was a three week occupation loaded with defiance and threats.

        Trespassing sympathisers seems a gesture rather than a punishment, and on review withdrawn in several cases.

        Those who have been prosecuted for these behaviours were lucky in some cases not to be charged with threatening to kill (7 years ).

        It amused me how Winston Peters became "Jacinda Ardern's ex Deputy Prime Minister" as journalists and commentators rushed to defend his right to visit.

        Bandwagon Bryce just minimising what he does not want you to reflect on and emphasising what suits his hypothesis.

        • Bearded Git

          "Bandwagon Bryce"….excellent smileyThat sums him up nicely.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          Those who have been prosecuted for these behaviours were lucky in some cases not to be charged with threatening to kill (7 years ).

          Patricia…you didn't respond to my reply to you the other day regarding the largely Labour led protest against the sale of State Assets by the National Government in 2012.

          You remember…the one where they carried a mock guillotine through the streets of Auckland and 'beheaded' Key, Collins, Bennett and English with associated mock blood. To cheers from the assembled. And there were children in attendance.

          Explain to me please how the two protests differ in their displays of violence and threats?

          Bearing in mind that in one of the protest actions the vast majority of people were fearing for the lives and livelihoods of themselves and their loved ones.

          • Patricia Bremner

            Sorry Rosemary I missed that. The skimming skills are fading I think. I also forgot to check the replies.blush

            I was in Australia at the time of that July Bastile Day, visiting my sick brother and my sister-in-law in NSW.

            We returned home to my Mother's fall, Billie becoming ill going into hospital and weeks of back and forth to Thames Acute Hospital where she later died. After the funeral we did up and sold her unit, then returned to Rotorua in late November.

            That year was a blur, so I did not really remember that Parade. It was tasteless and I think it diminishes both parties. Cheers.

            • Anne

              Patricia Bremner, you do not have to reply to Rosemary M's spiteful and distorted missives.

              She was referring to the 'Occupy' protests of ten years ago. They set up unlawful campsites in Auckland and were eventually forced to move on. They did not leave anything like the filth and chaos which was left behind at parliament. The link comes from the Daily Blog and not an official news site.

              'Occupy" was an international movement which appeared to consist of mostly young students and had nothing to do with the Labour Party.

              • Anne

                Rosemary said:

                Patricia…you didn't respond to my reply to you the other day regarding the largely Labour led protest against the sale of State Assets by the National Government in 2012.

                What does the former Labour led protest against Assets Sales got to do with the recent infamous protest at parliament?

                Then Rosemary says:
                “You remember…the one where they carried a mock guillotine through the streets of Auckland and ‘beheaded’ Key, Collins, Bennett and English…”

                Was this an attempt to conflate two separate protests, the Occupy movement which was world-wide, and the Labour Party's protest over asset sales in NZ around the same time?

                Is this the latest anti-vax movement attack line on Jacinda Ardern and Labour because if so, dirty as…

              • Rosemary McDonald

                …the filth and chaos which was left behind at parliament….

                Before the Police riot squad showed up that morning the grounds were clean and tidy and ordered. If you watch the footage closely you will see the heavy mob move, move moving the protestors violently away from the grounds. The common garden cops moved in behind and pulled up tents and gazebos and laid waste to what had been built and refined over three weeks of activism. The filth and chaos was created almost entirely by our wonderful police force.

                Former parliamentary insiders who risked life and limb by visiting the camp…even if it was done entirely for political mileage…saw for themselves that it was not the den of filth and rage and violence and incoherent hate that the government and mainstream media had portrayed. And oh so many so called Lefties fell for the bullshit.

                The link comes from the Daily Blog and not an official news site.

                Hmm. I think Bomber might have something to say about that.

                So.,are you saying that there was no guillotine and no beheadings? There were no cheers and no fake blood. No children in the crowd?

                Will Scoop do? https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1207/S00070/asset-sales-march-in-auckland-ends-in-beheading.htm?from-mobile=bottom-link-01

                From ANFS itself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2uCXIv9jOs

                From the Herald? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/asset-sales-threat-stirs-first-time-protester/EPJRFVXTSLWODLRZIWYNVTD4XI/

                Protesters vented their anger when the march reached the Town Hall.

                Dummies of John Key, Deputy Prime Minister Bill English and ministers Paula Bennett and Judith Collins were beheaded by a makeshift guillotine to cries of "off, off, off" from the crowd.

                • Patricia Bremner

                  New Zealand gets left off the map lol So does the news. We don't get much news about NZ in Toowoomba. You would think it had sunk into the sea, until Jacinda that is….. Then Aussies made up poems and songs. That is possibly why Scomo feels obliged to slag her off now.

      • Anker 3.1.4

        Bearded Git, I am not sure those politicians gave Mana to the protesters. I think people had pretty entrenched ideas about them along a wide spectrum.

        I was very against the reason for the protest, as I am pro vax, pro health regulations.

        And it was of interest to me to see that the Dunedin Multi Disciplinary study produced good evidence that their study participants who refused and were anti vacination had come from adversive backgrounds and learnt not to trust authority. Very unusually Richie Poultin the Director of the study said it was important to bare this in mind and try not to alienate these people any more than they already feel. This is not a direct quote, as I read this about one month ago.

        However, I appreciate you have a different point of view

        • Bearded Git

          Anker-that study is interesting; thank you.

          The protestors seem to have covered a wide spectrum. Along with the ones described in the study, many were "wellbeing" types who believe that yoga coupled with enough green tea will keep Covid at bay. I know this because I live among them at Hawea Flat. They also seem to believe that the whole vaccine thing is a giant drug company rort-there may be a smidgen of truth in this.

          But I still say that Hide Fox Peters and King (a group I would not like to meet on a dark night) deserved all they got from Mallard because they should have known better and were using the demo for their own purposes.

          (I am triple vaxxed BTW)

      • Rosemary McDonald 3.1.5

        In the meantime, Bearded Git, did you happen to risk watching the 35 minute discussion between UnHerd and Professor Christine Stabell-Benn I posted on Daily Review last night?

        Stabell-Benn has her name on over 400 scientific papers to do with Public Health and vaccines. She is an expert in her field.

        She has looked at the data and concluded that the risks from the mRNA products outweigh the benefits for most people under the age of fifty. She would not recommend under twenty year olds take the mRNA vaccines.

        The risk of cardiovascular harm is too great.

        She also notes that the trials of these mRNA products were less than optimal and were unblinded way too soon to be able to comment with any confidence about potential long term harms.

        Much of this was being discussed off mainstream media (because any such talk was censored) from the end of 2020…just after Pfizer released what passed in their minds as 'trial results'. Those of us expressing our concerns were labelled anti-vaxxers.

        Some of us watched with increasing alarm as the obvious adverse effects were being systematically dismissed and minimised by medical professionals and bureaucrats and politicians alike.

        Yet the data speaks for itself…the Pfizer product is not associated with reduced mortality…even though it does reduce serious illness, hospitalisation and death from Covid in some people.

        The vast majority of those who assembled in Wellington to exercise their right to speak directly with those making laws (supposedly) on their behalf were concerned that the risks of this hurried pharmaceutical outweighed the benefits and that people were being harmed by it and were being killed by it.

        That such a product could be mandated for 40% plus of all workers is an outrage, and good citizenship demanded that we did all we possibly and non violently could to get the lawmakers to see reason.

        Now. You can carry on cheering Mallard for his contemptuous treatment of rightfully concerned citizens and you can continue to believe that the Pfizer product is so safe and effective for all… that those who decline it are nutbars and those who took it and claim it harmed them are deluded….or you can expand your mind and listen to this expert.

        • Bearded Git

          Rosemary-did you read this?

          "Stabell-Benn is keen to stress that the sample is relatively small and is calling for further investigation, and also that the study took place during very low levels of Covid, so the relative advantage of protection against Covid would have been smaller at that time compared to at other points in the pandemic."

          It is widely accepted, including by Stabell-Benn, that the covid vaccines are reducing Covid symptoms and hospitalisations. Most experts also say it reduces death and this would appear to be the case given the massive fall in deaths in the USA, UK and other western nations since vaccination became widespread.

          I accept that the data is still in the pipeline on much of this.

      • Populuxe1 3.1.6

        You could easily say the same thing of media coverage of the protestors. Should journalists be trespassed from Parliament as well? I can't stand Matt King, but it's utterly absurd and anti-democratic to trespass a sitting MP from Parliament.

    • Craig H 3.2

      The Speaker carries the can for the trespass notices since he's in charge, but they were issued by others under delegated authority, not by the Speaker himself.

      Seems pretty clear that he didn't agree with all of them because he revoked the notices for the former MPs once they were drawn to his attention.

      I can't imagine a minister or CE issuing trespass notices for a government department themselves rather than delegating authority to do that to others, why would anyone expect the Speaker to? Some nous on the part of the staff who issued the notices might have been useful by way of informing the Speaker of at least the former MPs, but Parliament has provided the Speaker with the power to delegate authority to staff, presumably with the expectation that the Speaker would use that power.

  4. Dennis Frank 4

    Professor Jack Vowles has appraised our demos:

    The authority of the ‘Crown’ is now derived from the people of New Zealand, both Māori and Pākehā as well as members of other ethnic groups who live here, because in a democracy the people are the ultimate source of sovereignty.

    His thesis is that interpretation has produced two claims – one based on sovereignty, the other on racial partnership.

    In a liberal democracy, governing authority is ultimately derived from the people, power to decide is widely devolved, and rights of individuals and groups to govern themselves are recognised and enabled. Concerns about ‘the tyranny of the majority’ expressed by Māori are themselves derived from liberalism, the principles of which are well able to support the protection of group rights. Under the recognition of rangatiratanga Te Tiriti does give a special status to iwi, hapū, and other Māori authorities. That status should rightly receive explicit acknowledgment as New Zealand’s constitution evolves. Understood in this way, the text of Te Tiriti provides us with much more to work with than the vague and widely misunderstood concept of partnership.


    Can biculturalism be made definitive in a multicultural society? I doubt it.

    • Incognito 4.1

      Anne Salmond has been pointing out that Western dualism has influenced all aspects and interpretations, even by Māori, of ToW since it has been signed. She has warned and argued about this too. This Western PoV is now the dominating view, bordering on dogma, in all debate, policy making, and government (local as well as central) decision-making. The more contemporary ‘partnership’ interpretation inevitably leads to bi-culturalism and binary exclusion of other groups & cultures. She also has interesting things to say about the off-spring ‘co-governance’. Of all the views and interpretations that I have seen over the years – admittedly not that many – my views align most with hers.

      • Dennis Frank 4.1.1

        my views align most with hers

        Mine too. However it's a multidimensional situation, with plenty of nuances. I think Jack is onto something (even though he's using dualism) with his separating out of the sovereignty dimension & the partnership dimension.

        I like that he anchors sovereignty in a contemporary sense, as deriving from the people collectively. Constitutional lawyers would have a bias against that I expect, since in law precedent rules and tradition prevails. Politically, I prefer the progressive option – it points to the future, allows shifting of views & evolution in the body politic. Which is where co-governance comes in, of course (as a principle only, at this stage)…

        I also see the situation as part ethos, part ideology. I favour the ethos of partnership but suspect encoding it via ideology into law won't get traction. You could frame this ambivalence as heart vs head or feelings vs thoughts and I'd have no objection. Probably true for me – and plenty of other folk if not most.

  5. Patricia Bremner 5

    It has happened already Frank, in language customs and education. Now it will be Health.

  6. Chris 6


    Funding food banks is something governments have traditionally resisted, presumably to avoid accusations of attempting to replace rights-based welfare with private charity.

    It seems government doesn't care about that now. Is this an admission that our welfare system is broken? Government has already passed responsibility for administering benefits for young people over to community groups. Now they're funding food banks.

    Getting the basics so wrong like this just makes it easier for the next thing to slip by.

    Soon we'll all be back in the poor houses.

  7. newsense 7

    National and their media lapdogs are attacking the speaker. The instrument and the process of democracy. Apparently I’m not allowed to even in imagination wish you to gain empathy for what those working at parliament experienced (signs calling for their death, a destructive mob without qualms about violence intruding into their workplace) before calling the reaction petty. It’s not something most of us would be allowed to experience at work because we would be protected from such a thing.

    And for the guy who allowed ‘we don’t have a measure for poverty’, the guy who is running to be National party president to be presented as some impartial commentator on the matter is very poor.

    But hey- attack the legitimacy of the system. It’s just taken a while for it to get a foothold here.

    The stunning hypocrisy of the law and order crowd is sadly in line with the foreign playbook we’d avoided for such a long time.

    Here’s what I posted in the other thread:

    I don’t wish to link to any of his ‘democracy’ if it involves supporting, however indirectly, a violent protest. The attack on the system, on the speaker of the house is very poor. And if we were in many other countries if a mob camped in parliament and behaved as they did…

    I would suggest that Mr Edwards should put himself in the shoes of those who were considered fair game, not whatever he considers petty. Or whatever the talking point is he is spouting.

    • Corey Humm 7.1

      To be honest Peters deserved to trespassed as did everyone partaking in a protest that had been trespassed and ordered to leave by police. At that point you’re breaking the law.

      However it’s such bad and dumb coms to give Peter oxygen like that Peters has now been on tv for days lapping up the attention and being seen as a figure for the freeDUMB. This is a man who got back into parliament just cos of a conversation at a coffee shop between the PM and an act candidate. Dumb move from the speaker.

      Is also weird how noone reminds Peters he was a part of the govt he venomously spreads rumours about like the media rescue package which he was in cabinet when it was signed off on to give media funds via govt advertising , he calls it a scam but he signed off on it and noone says boo. Crazy.

      The man has never made a wrong decision in his life according to him. Ever . He's always right. He never takes responsibility for his actions ever, and his sad pathetic desperation to get back in parliament at all costs instead of going out with dignity is just sad.

      All that said. It's time for the speaker to move on. Everyone hates him. Not just cos of the mistakes since 2019 but also cos Noones ever really liked Trevor Mallard to begin with… Only the most one eyed labour supporter would be ready to die in a ditch over defending Mallard.

      Besides speakers don't stick around for that long usually. Give him a nice ambassador role somewhere (same with a few sitting ministers) and have a nice cabinet reshuffle and govt reset.

  8. Patricia Bremner 8

    Chris @ 6, If there is a ready charity infrastructure avenue, wouldn't that be useful while further work is done in a Pandemic…. which is not over, going by the figures presented daily.

    The increase in benefits and lifting of ceilings plus additional allowances, the implementation of recommendations of the working groups all point to improvements made.

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