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Open mike 05/09/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, September 5th, 2019 - 143 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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143 comments on “Open mike 05/09/2019 ”

  1. vto 1

    It is no wonder that people are so very cynical about politics and politicians…

    witness the Kiwibuild reset…

    Gone from building homes to encourage a greater supply

    To providing financial assistance to encourage a greater demand

    Watch demand soar, house values rise again, and Labour get back into power off the back of it..

    pfftt….

    Labour has just kicked the entire housing issue down the road again… just like John Key… who propelled property prices (and hence electability) off the back of immigration…

    no cred

    • millsy 1.1

      The government had the chance to reboot the home ownership schemes that were in place before the 1990's but completely bottled it in favour of loading people up with more debt, and some charity run rent to own scheme for the 'poor', which is probably as expensive to them as renting.

      And no, Judith, 'relaxing planning laws' will NOT make a single cheap house.

      • Dukeofurl 1.1.1

        "home ownership schemes that were in place before the 1990's but completely bottled it in favour of loading people up with more debt"

        What did you think State Advances was ' pixie dust' ?. You had to pay it back.

        Then like now there are various grants to bridge the deposit gap etc

      • Hongi Ika 1.1.2

        This current Labour Government would not have a f#%king clue when it comes to solving this Housing Crisis, Twitford was so out of his depth and over his head in water it was not even funny IMHO ?

  2. listening to housing minister megan wood on rnz..

    oh dear..!

    oh fucken dear..!

    (walks over to wall – starts banging forehead against it..)

    • Climaction 2.1

      Surprised you have a wall to bang your head against. Given the duopoly of westfarmers and fletchers on building supplies and the lack of government action to fix it, i would have thought the wall is more valuable than the head you bang against it

    • for the first time – i am thinking this gummint may not be re-elected..

      (this degree of incompetence is fucken mind-blowing..)

      and if that happens – it will be all their own doing…

      • Climaction 2.2.1

        Cleangreen thinks it’s all national 5th columnists in the public sector though? Surely they can take some blame

      • Psycho Milt 2.2.2

        for the first time – i am thinking this gummint may not be re-elected.

        You're thinking people will return National to power due to its proven competence in dealing with the housing crisis, maybe?

        I'm not sure what "competence" people want to see here. So many voters have a vested interest in high property prices that most of the serious moves the government could make would see them thrown out of office. Understandably, the governing parties don't see being chucked out after one term as a demonstration of "competence," so they're not doing those things.

        That leaves building more state houses, which they are doing. But even there, National's boxed them in with a shortage of tradespeople and the inability to borrow large sums of money. Being the government isn't a doddle.

        • Herodotus 2.2.2.1

          borrow to build HNZ stock = nil net debt and as it is balance sheet has no effect on surplus.

          anyway we don’t have targets anymore 😉, so there is no issue

          National did not cock up kiwiwbuild, not did they make labour increase their target from an unobtainable 50,000 to 100,000. Labour’s arrogance and a poor selection of minister are the reason for this failure 🤬

          • Peter Christchurh nz 2.2.2.1.1

            Poor selection of Minister nails it. That arrogant vacuous Twyford may well be an appropriate choice for looking after the Parlimentary broom cupboard, but not as Minister for what is one of the most important portfolios of the government.

          • Adrian Thornton 2.2.2.1.2

            Labours blind faith in it's liberal free market ideology is in fact the reason why this Labour party can't and never could fix NZ's housing disaster, they will never be the fearless transformative progressive political party that is needed to overcome the many mountains we need to climb as a country..that is unfortunately just a fact.

            And I would say that yes Labour could easily lose the next election…hard to imagine a more perverse loss…or for that matter even just scraping back into office in a run against the most unliked National leader in probably their entire history would be a humiliation…although not according to many third way Labour supporters on this forum, who seem to think that getting into power is all politics is about, at any cost, including losing the very essence of what a Labour Party should actually stand for, which bothers them not one iota.

            Turn Labour Left!

            • Herodotus 2.2.2.1.2.1

              Hate to think of a loss, as Nats offer little. BUT now we are seeing that we cannot believe what Labour promises to be delivered. Megan Woods "we are not reneging on any election promises" . I would suggest minister to read what you went to the election on and listen to the 2nd link.

              9 MONTHS (wasted) in the making and there are hardly any answers or detail " as many as we can as quick as we can" – How does that install confidence for those wanting to enter the housing market ??

              Megan Woods hasn't even done any modelling what income levels will apply, rent to buy scheme what equity will build up.

              The ability of those that we are given to vote on, it appears to me that we vote on the lesser or 2 evils option.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xs755ZUCA0

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWPsJnRNGvQ

            • phillip ure 2.2.2.1.2.2

              @ a. thornton..

              agreed..!

            • Louis 2.2.2.1.2.3

              "Turn Labour Left"

              Join the party and help them.

            • Andre 2.2.2.1.2.4

              Turn Labour Left!

              We've had lots of lefter than Labour parties here. Including some that have been in Parliament, even government. Which one would you like Labour to be more like? Socialist Aotearoa? Mana? IMP? Progressive? Alliance? Communist League?

              Do you notice anything those parties all have in common?

          • Dukeofurl 2.2.2.1.3

            "as it is balance sheet has no effect on surplus."

            Thats correct as 'surplus' is operating expenditure not capital – such as houses.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.2.2.2

          Don't worry, Jude has offered to work with Labour to sort out this absolute cluster-f**k-of-mega-proportions (she really is a selfless, giving person) so if Labour do want to fix this mess-of-thier-own-making all they have to do is accept the olive branch and let Jude take over 🙂

        • Adrian Thornton 2.2.2.3

          Has it ever occured to you that a political party could run on a manifesto that they actually believe in and will stand for no matter what the fallout might be?

          • Andre 2.2.2.3.1

            Has it ever occurred to you that a political party can achieve more by remaining in power through several elections in order to make gains in more areas and consolidate gains made in previous terms?

            It's a shitload easier for a new government to reverse something introduced a year or two ago that half the population is firmly against and a fair chunk of the rest think may be a step too far, compared to trying to reverse something introduced four or five years ago that's bedded in and didn't arouse quite such strong opposition to begin with.

            • phillip ure 2.2.2.3.1.1

              oh..!..the incrementalist-argument..!..

              what a refreshing change..!

              • Andre

                Don't hear it much among the people you hang out with?

                • post-douglas neoliberal-incrementalism from clark through 'till now…

                  is what has got us into this unholy mess..

                  you seriously defend it..?

                  • Andre

                    Yep. It's how you get lasting change. The other lot used it to get us here, we need to use it to go back in a better direction. Going for the glorious revolution will last exactly until the next election.

                    • i for one am not expecting 'glorious revolution'…

                      i am just expecting that 'transformational'-stuff we were promised pre-election..

                      all in their own words….

                      is that too much to ask..?

                  • Andre

                    If you're looking for your idea of "transformational", you're being unrealistic expecting Labour to push anywhere near as much as you would like. They are fighting for the centre voters, after all. And what looks transformational to those centre voters will look like insipid incremental centrism to you.

                    You'd be much better off putting your hopes and efforts into a party like the Greens – that are consciously targeted at a small part of the electorate, and try to lift them to where Greens plus Labour don't need anyone else.

            • Louis 2.2.2.3.1.2

              +1 Andre

          • McFlock 2.2.2.3.2

            Even if the manifesto, when put into practise, turns out to be unrealistically optomistic?

            Besides some management issues, the kiwibuild output was managable but the model of implementation turned out to be unworkable – mostly due to the partnership with developers.

            I think they should have figured out a timeline for the 100k homes (split into different types – developer partnerships, new state homes, and government developments), rather than nuking the target completely. I.e. kept the plan for the number of homes but adjusted the timeline. But sticking to the timeline and the number was unworkable.

            • Poission 2.2.2.3.2.1

              The manifesto did offer alternatives ie reduce the demand side by flattening the curve.Far more cost effective and sustainable.

              In total, these changes are estimated to reduce net migration by 20,000-30,000. Without these changes there would be up to 10,000 more houses needed and up to 20,000 more vehicles on our roads annually. Our immigration system will be regularly reviewed to ensure it is functioning well.

              https://www.labour.org.nz/immigration

        • phillip ure 2.2.2.4

          @ pm..

          'You're thinking people will return National to power due to its proven competence in dealing with the housing crisis, maybe?'

          no…

          'I'm not sure what "competence" people want to see here.'

          oh..i dunno..maybe a bit more than has been displayed to date..?

          and – it's all nationals' fault – and being in gummint is hard..

          well that's all ok then..nothing to see here..eh..?

          • Psycho Milt 2.2.2.4.1

            Well, nothing except the failure of a flagship policy, which is a pretty substantial blow to any government.

            When your work involves massive high-stakes projects, your failures are very public and humiliating. But if my work experience has taught me anything, it's taught me that when people have done their best and failed you might feel like berating them for incompetence, but actually doing it isn't going to improve their productivity and it saps morale in a much wider group than the one you're addressing.

          • Hongi Ika 2.2.2.4.2

            Labour primarily is Ideologically Driven, they have very few MP's with real life experiences IMHO ?

            • Dukeofurl 2.2.2.4.2.1

              Really ?

              And national has . Bridges was a prosecutor – a glorified public servant.

              English was a treasury analyst- for a few years- before 30 years in Parliament but they worked the 'farming adjacent' thing to cover that up.

              Nick Smith didnt work in his family bridge building company after graduate school , 30 years in Parliament.

              Paula's background started with the Napier Tattoo Club and the Stag Truck stop but found it too hard and stayed on the DPB. Newspapers have lawyers letters from PB telling them not to get the time lines for above 3 mixed up.

              McClay worked as chief of staff for some UK EU poobah.

              Goldsmith has been in beehive or MPs/Ministers offices much like Bishop , Kaye and Willis

            • Psycho Milt 2.2.2.4.2.2

              "real life experiences"

              So, their MPs have fake life experiences? What would that consist of?

        • Kevin 2.2.2.5

          The government doesn't have to borrow large sums of money for KiwiBuild, or what ever the fuck they call it now.

          The government can create whatever capital it needs. I believe they call it Quantitative Easing these days.

      • Dukeofurl 2.2.3

        I dont think there is a single person reading that who thinks you know better in any shape or form

        "listening to housing minister megan wood on rnz."

      • phillip ure 2.2.4

        trying to think of ways out of this mess:

        i think that kiwibuild needs to be identified for what it is:

        middle-class welfare..

        in no way is it designed to help those who need it the most..

        and so as a concept should be canned..

        and as corin dann asked megan wood this morning:(i paraphrase..)

        'why doesn't labour return to its' knitting – and forget about being in the market – and focus on building state houses..?'

        to which i can only say 'hear..!..hear..!'..

        and would also mention again how post ww2 10,000 houses a year were built..(surely there must be historians/theses knowing the mechanics of how that was done – surely it would e of value to at least look there..?..)

        my understanding is that some 1,500 state houses have been built – and that is good..but it almost seems like it is something labour is ashamed of – they have sold that fact/success so poorly – it must be deliberate – and i see it as part of labour pandering to that tory swing-voter and trying not to offend..

        so like corin dann sez – labour should proudly commit to house the homeless/poor – and to go full tilt into state house building..(and not gimcrack-hovels..!)

        the rent-to-buy/shared-equity ideas look good – on the surface – the devil will be in the detail/criterea..(fingers still crossed there..)

        i also feel the obvious moves are into pre-built etc..

        and why not a mortgage-fund where those who want to – can present concepts of alternative/much-cheaper buildings – and get funding for them..?

        (and of course councils need to be made to toe that line – their arbitrary/subjective bullshit has to be swept away…)

      • sumsuch 2.2.5

        I wonder … actually 2 things. One, why Chris Trotter argued against a Left coalition this time? That is a story I haven't been able to understand.

        Two, why is most commenting on Open Mike done before the evening? Seems as unnatural as vampires in sunlight to me. Hoary with the glory of dawn's bracing air? Relaxing contemplative does best after the day's activity, he proposes.

    • mauī 2.3

      Kiwibuild houses in Wanaka too… ffs what were they thinking… apart from dishing out lollies to the elite.

      • Puckish Rogue 2.3.1

        Shame no one told them it wasn't going to work…🤣

        • Enough is Enough 2.3.1.1

          I don't think there has ever been a more predictable failure of any government policy.

          Everyone other than Labour, and some of the media who failed to critically review the policy, knew it would never fly.

          National can rightly say, "told you so" now

          • Dukeofurl 2.3.1.1.1

            Which of Nationals 'increase the supply' policies do you want to citique

            Remember when Nick Smith went around various ' sites' in Auckland saying they are public owned and houses can go there. How many houses did go there.

            Remember the Special Housing Areas, how many extra low cost houses did that build.

            Guess who at the last election promised 'more more more' houses.

            • Louis 2.3.1.1.1.1

              +1 Dukeofurl. The Ihumātao dispute is a result of the National government's SHA's.

            • Enough is Enough 2.3.1.1.1.2

              There are more more more houses. We are in the middle of a construction boom.

              The point is Kiwibuild was doomed for failure as predicted by everyone other than Labour.

              • Dukeofurl

                Three little letters

                S H A

                How did that go……not

                • Enough is Enough

                  I think you are arguing with yourself.

                  Not sure why you are rabbtting on about the previous government. They failed and we kicked them out of office.

                  • Dukeofurl

                    Because too many still believe and parrot their talking points

                    • Enough is Enough

                      No-one here is and certainly not me.

                      You can support the left and still be critical of this government. I am not all of a sudden going to break the habit of a lifetime and begin voting for National.

                      At the same time, I am not going to pretend that noting is wrong with this government. They made bold statements and promises in 2017 and should be held to account against what they were voted in on.

                      Simply saying 'but at least we tried' isn't good enough. That just encourages future politicians to make grand unrealistic promises without ever having to deliver on them

          • phillip ure 2.3.1.1.2

            it could quite possibly have 'flown' if done correctly –

            remembering that post ww2 10,000 houses a yr were built..

            (and that was before nail-guns were invented – every nail hammered in using a hammer..)

            whereas this clown-clusterfuck can't come within a bulls' roar of that number – (nail-guns notwithstanding)..

      • mac1 2.3.2

        Every community has a range of people living there in terms of wealth. The elite of Wanaka still need workers, teachers, clerical staff etc etc.

        I'd venture to say that affordable housing is more difficult to find in wealthy communities than in poorer communities.

      • Naki man 2.3.3

        Everyone needs a ski chalet

  3. Rapunzel 3

    Does anyone have the expertise to comment on whether it is proper that the prosecutor of a case which has been "resolved" then contacts media themselves and more or less tries to publicly "relitigate" an outcome he had agreed to.

    I am aware that not all is always as it seems, but now that more details of whatever occurred have been published it appears that normally such a case would not have made news or headlines without the "political" interest, that interest in fact should have no bearing on the case or its outcome.

    What would be the motivation for the prosecutor himself in contacting the media and does anyone know if this is "proper"?

    "But, despite the plea deal, prosecutor David Johnstone wished to outline the Crown's position in an email to the Herald and other journalists who covered the trial.

    It was in response to an earlier media statement by the accused's lawyer Emma Priest."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264837

    • Peter Christchurh nz 3.1

      Reading the article, I guess the prosecutor was left little alternative, after the defence lawyer had already approached the media with inflammatory and incorrect claims.

      Of more interest, why does the guilty party still have name suppression? Very unusual, something usually reserved for All Blacks and other Neanderthals. Must be some politicians son eh.

      • Rapunzel 3.1.1

        I nearly mentioned the defendant's solicitor speaking to media but it looked clear that media asked for comment and got it, I'm not sure why they didn't ask for comment from the prosecutor's office he could have made a comment that was relevant to the case and the outcome in an immediate manner not in hindsight.

        ½ of NZ could tell you which politicians son, there have been "interesting" cases that are not specific to "All Blacks and other Neanderthals", the case may well be that they are all Neanderthals.

        Anyway do you think this case would be in the media if it hadn't been a "politician's" son?

      • Dukeofurl 3.1.2

        "approached the media with inflammatory and incorrect claims."

        The accused was offered and pleaded to 2 x assault charges. ( the crimes have same

        The sexual assault charges where all withdrawn, so that is saying there was no sexual assault as alleged by the Crown. Exactly as the lawyer claimed during ( and before ?) the trial.

        • Rapunzel 3.1.2.1

          I am female and over 60, not that has any bearing other than I have children and grandchildren because I am, and now they are, aware of what happens in certain settings it is my certain view that had it not been able to be made political no one would have been even aware of what happened.

          How many times in people's lives has this sort of thing happened it is not excusable but it is the reality of out of control drunken behaviour, whoever his parents are they are probably really glad he was not in charge of a vehicle.

          That aside is this the same sort of "fair" trial that one of his peers would have had and is the prosecutor allowed to contact media the way he did?

        • McFlock 3.1.2.2

          The sexual assault charges where all withdrawn, so that is saying there was no sexual assault as alleged by the Crown.

          Yes and no.

          Plea deals are a sad but important part of the process. The greatly lower the workload of the justice system. And yes, one is legally "innocent until proven guilty". But that doesn't mean there was no sexual assault (legally the complaint still was made), nor does it mean the guy is the victim his lawyer is making him out to be.

          • Dukeofurl 3.1.2.2.1

            Lower the workload ?

            This was in the middle of a jury trial. thats a fanciful claim about lowering workload. It happens the other way too…multiple charges are 'pre-loaded' to makes the crime stats look good when a single charge will do.

            • McFlock 3.1.2.2.1.1

              Lawyer I was talking to a few years back reckoned something like 80% of cases were plea agreements.

              Sure, they left it late in this case, but it probably saved a few days off the schedule.

              • Dukeofurl

                Weak case , to throw in the towel by the Crown in middle of trial, after most of the witnesses called. Were the crown afraid the judge might dismiss the case , after application by the defence , before the jury retired ?

                I wouldnt say I was a habitue of the courts, but isnt it the defendants who are finally convinced by their lawyers to plead guilty to trial charges

                • McFlock

                  No case is 100%. Jury trials can be unpredictable. Sexual assault trials are also notoriously difficult to prosecute.

                  So the prosecution risk the guy walking away. The guy risks getting a sexual assault conviction. So prosecution and defence find a happy medium of the charges that are mild enough for him to wear but are at least some measure of punishment for the prosecution.

                  It's not ideal, but then ideally people wouldn't assault other people, sexually or otherwise.

                • Naki man

                  You must live in a cave Duke, McFlock is 100% correct.

                  You only have to be on jury service at a busy court to see all the "horse trading"

                  • Dukeofurl

                    So when was the last time the Crown took the defendants offer to settle in the middle of a jury trial. There is no saving of lawyers time and court time at that stage.

                    The defence opening statement was 'this isnt a sexual assault' case.

                    Yes I have been called for jury duty , and yes they have a second case line up if the first case settles on the 'step of the court'.

                    This is practically a settlement just before the judge instructs the jury .

                    The only possible later time is before the jury returns

                    • McFlock

                      There is no saving of lawyers time and court time at that stage.

                      Except the jury is immediately dismissed and zero witnesses are called to argue the case cbecause the charges either have guilty pleas or withdrawals.

            • Rapunzel 3.1.2.2.1.2

              Middle of the road enough probably to think "there but for the grace of . . ." on both sides of the offending behaviour and/or you let them out of you sight for five mins. There few things more reckless and sad than a young male trying to make an impression or fit in especially when drunk, something that probably needed to be in court, especially one of public opinion, is how they got access to alcohol – or was the person of age – without supervision around the younger ones.

      • Louis 3.1.3

        The accused was a guest at the camp.So what makes you think he's a politician's son?

  4. Adrian Thornton 4

    Here are a couple of good pieces on Sanders (or maybe we should just say The Progressive Left) vs corporate media…

    Bernie Sanders Is Coming to American Journalism's Rescue

    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/bernie-sanders-is-coming-to-american-journalisms-rescue/

    Corporate Media Bias Against Sanders Is Structural, Not a Conspiracy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss7tjLZKdMQ&t=736s

  5. joe90 5

    Ms Southern is/was a significant contributor to Levant's hate rag, too.

    A formal criminal complaint for hate propaganda has been filed with the Ottawa Police Service against the Canadian Islamophobic news outlet Rebel News Network Ltd., and its directors Ezra Levant, Hamish Marshall and Hannah Vanderkooy, as well as former Rebel News presenter Faith Bazos (aka Faith Goldy).

    […]

    The complaint alleges Rebel News Network have breached s. 319(2) of the Canadian Criminal Code by wilfully promoting hatred of the Muslim community through hate propaganda published through the Rebel News Network website and Youtube channel.

    While not formally named as there is no evidence any of his activities took place in Canada, the complaint relies heavily on content created by Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (aka Tommy Robinson) as evidence of them disseminating xenophobic anti-Muslim content. Videos produced by Faith Goldy are also highlighted in the complaint.

    https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2019/09/03/formal-criminal-complaint-made-against-rebel-media-for-hate-propaganda/

  6. joe90 6

    Barking.

  7. Anne 7

    The liar extraordinaire falsifies and over simplifies an outdated weather map for Hurricane Dorian. Can't even tell the truth about a weather event:

    https://www.newsandguts.com/video/hurricane-map-displayed-in-oval-office-was-altered-to-include-alabama/

  8. Andre 8

    The Combover Con will stiff you every time. Even when you're a loyal but vulnerable Repug Senator from a swing state who's up for re-election next year.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-border-wall-military-funds-senators_n_5d6fff9ce4b0cdfe0579f881

  9. joe90 9

    Old mobster habits never die.

  10. Jimmy 10

    I thought Megan Woods came across pretty well in the interview with Mike Hosking regarding the kiwi build reset. In fact, she interviews a hell of a lot better than Jacinda does on Tuesday mornings.

  11. joe90 12

    The canaries are trying to tell us something.

    VANCOUVER—Fisheries Minister Jonathan Wilkinson announced a further $2.7 million investment in salmon conservation projects, after government officials confirmed Thursday morning that salmon stocks across British Columbia are returning in concerningly low numbers.

    Fisheries and Oceans Canada, also known as DFO, had previously forecast that 4,795,000 sockeye salmon would return to the Fraser River this year.

    As the run starts, that number has been adjusted to 628,000 — just 13 per cent of that original forecast. The state of sockeye salmon is now so dire that some populations “face an imminent threat of extinction,” according to DFO.

    https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2019/08/22/48-million-sockeye-salmon-were-expected-at-bcs-fraser-river-but-just-628000-showed-up.html

  12. Police Destroy Evidence From Pike River Mine ?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115559773/police-say-pike-river-evidence-destroyed-in-2015-held-no-value-but-families-want-answers

    This brings back memories of Robert Muldoon and the police activities destroying evidence from The Erebus Crash ?

    Hopefully the wet behind the ears Andrew Little from the Labour Party will address this situation in a Royal Commission of Enquiry as Pike River is a Homicide Crime Scene ?

    • In Vino 13.1

      If it is a homicide crime scene, it became so under a National Government whose PM made a solemn promise to get the bodies out, then changed his mind…

  13. sumsuch 14

    The art of the possible aside, reality says we need a commanding demo-cratist government in control. The whole bloody lesson of the rich's takeover of government in the early 80s from Keynesian social-democracy. Yet reality also says that 's not possible — division of needed ends and impossible(?) means.

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