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Open mike 05/02/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 5th, 2013 - 141 comments
Categories: open mike, uncategorized - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

141 comments on “Open mike 05/02/2013”

  1. To the MPs that come on here asking for unity or whatever so they can concentrate on the ‘real enemy’.

    I’m prepared to publicly concede I had it wrong all along when you hit 40% in the polls.
    At what point between now and the next election campaign when you don’t reach that number, will you be prepared to say we got it wrong, DS isn’t the right man for the job, you were spot on Al1?

    Way I see it, at least 22 caucus members don’t know they arses from elbows.
    What do you think you know that I don’t?

    • hush minx 1.1

      Did you hear Shearer on RNZ this morning on Waitangi and the Te Karere Digipol? Not only was he inarticulate as to explaining how Labour were working for Maori, he also could not pronounce his mps names, what they were doing, and entirely forgot to mention Nanaia. Precursor to the reshuffle?

      • xtasy 1.1.1

        hush minx: Well, how would you “perform”, after a night with lots of beer to “celebrate” your “overwhelming” victory of sorts? Maybe that is why he dropped in performance again? Just a thought, but he may send Annette around to answer and clarify this for us shortly.

        • hush minx 1.1.1.1

          Hmmm – and then I saw this in today’s Dom post:

          Mr Shearer has not yet convinced the voters that he is a plausible prime minister, even if his caucus has backed him. He is desperately inarticulate, unable to deliver a sound bite without a lot of rehearsal or an auto-cue. ..He can look tough and decisive when his back is to the wall, but mostly he still just blunders.

          Trevor Mallard likens Mr Shearer to Norman Kirk, which is laughable… Mr Shearer has a long way to go before he and his party look like winners.

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/8261563/Editorial-Faltering-leader-versus-government-in-rut

          Sigh

          • Olwyn 1.1.1.1.1

            I caught this little gem at the end of the editorial to which you linked hush minx. “Labour is exploring new ideas- on monetary policy and tax and on a tougher welfare policy – but its image remains blurred.” This is the first I’ve heard of the “tougher welfare policy” and I don’t know if its true. Can anyone shed light on this?

            • xtasy 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Maybe ask “Jacinda Dear”, or the more senior “expert” “(Marie Antoi-)Anette” ?

              I have had high suspicions about Labour’s true welfare agenda for a long time now, this only adds to it!!! They have in general been FAR TOO SILENT on the reforms that NatACT with the front person Bennett are launching, so one must wonder, wonder and wonder.

              As Shearer will feel reassured now, I do not rule out a “slightly more moderate” harder line welfare policy by Labour, as the public have through a totally biased, misinforming MSM been largely conditioned and turned into benefit enviers and haters. So that is the wrongly “nurtured” public sentiment now, that exists, and Shearer would be prone to exploit public sentiment to gain votes.

              His “sickness benefit roofpainter story” at the start of a “Heartland Speech” in Nelson (and I believe elsewhere) may have been the first signal to the public he gave, for what he really wants Labour to stand for!

              Do NOT forget, they (Labour) brought in a Dr David Bratt, a staunch “pro work ability” “Principal Health Advisor” comparing benefit dependence to drug dependence in 2007. They have never explained that man’s appointment or bizarre claims in his public presentations to GPs and others.

              Shearer never apologised for – or explained his “bene roof painter” dog whistle comments.

              • aerobubble

                Shearer is displaying a clean lack of imagination, kiwi voters hate capable PMs. Ever since Lange gave it such a bad name – aka – neobliberalism. Why do you think Key is so desperate to look like a spoit brat, the longer he stays in office the harder it is to not look capable. He’s got a whole horrendous history of bad policy, reshuffles, outsourcing, and dithering over the economy under his belt but its never enough,
                competence capable keep dogging his legacy.

                NZ is rich and its essential for NZ not to get tagged as rich, and the best way is to just hand over our assets, deregulate, gear the economy to export its profit centers and just hate the idea of productivity. Government generosity is a crime against the economy damn it.

                Kiwis are
                just not taught simple ethics like beware people bearing gifts, that priests who are too good to be true are diddling their wards, that men selling ponsi schemes so pander to
                investors personal weaknesses, that saving the economy by laxly taxes and deregulating the commercial arena will breed world winning companies (wow lol, what, the heavy slap on the bum is only good for children).

                Being nice to the private sector will not make a resilient growing prosperous NZ.

                We are this way, as a Nation, because our media is so weak and subservient to Australian bankers and Australian media barons, because they all want to work in OZ eventually and so make it easy to exploit NZ to gain points in the eyes of future employers.

            • Mary 1.1.1.1.1.2

              Hi Olwyn – there have been a small number of us on this site who’ve been talking about this for a while now, xtasy for example, but it’s really hard to show people on the Left how nasty Labour’s welfare policy has been since 1999. Nobody sees the detail and neither, I believe, does anyone on the Left want to. Labour has been asked time and time again about this but they will not say a word. bad12 had a crack at me yesterday about having a go at Annette King, rushing to her defence ahead of taking notice of the real issue, which is that Labour’s history on welfare reform since 1999 and its silence when asked if this is still its policy is clear evidence it has every intention of continuing from wherever National leaves off, just as it did from 1999. Everyone’s saying “give Labour a chance to develop its welfare policy before you slag it”, but it’s been six years now since its last attack, the 2007 amendment Act, and they said nothing to suggest things had changed leading up to the last election. The only conclusion we can arrive at is it’s going to be more of the same. We can’t keep giving Labour the benefit of the doubt when there’s nothing to suggest things have changed – just silence which we can only take as meaning nothing’s changed. We trusted Labour in 1999 and they pooed all over us. For that I say fuck them.

              • Olwyn

                Yes Mary I too have mistrusted that silence, which is what drew my attention to that short sentence in the first place.

              • Murray Olsen

                Labour’s approach to welfare has been pretty nasty since 1984. They brought in GST and income taxes on benefits, instantly cutting into the standard of living. They brought in the monetarist culture of greed, which ordains that it’s easy to get rich and anyone who doesn’t is beneath contempt. They’ve never said sorry or admitted the huge shift to the right and they throw anyone who tries to give a minor nudge to the left under the bus. I’m afraid I can only see them as a party which exists to give the illusion of choice and democracy, especially with Shearer as leader.

          • David H 1.1.1.1.2

            @hush minx. I’m just waiting for TS to be blamed for this as well

        • David H 1.1.1.2

          Yep the replacement for Mike Smith.

        • Mary 1.1.1.3

          Probably celebrated round at Hooton’s place.

      • marty mars 1.1.2

        hush minx – I didn’t hear it but your description is so good I don’t need to. Tangata whenua are cannon fodder for that useless nobody and his cohorts.

    • The Al1en 1.2

      What was that olde world yank tea party thing about no representation, no taxes?
      How about no accountability, no sermons or lectures.
      Stand by your secret votes and give a date and a poll figure when you’ll know for sure the fight can’t be won. Draw on memory from 2008-11 if you’re stuck.

      • McFlock 1.2.1

        lol

        Labour got in the order of 23% in a RM poll a week from the election. Result: NACT get 64 seats including three parties with 5 electorate-only seats.

        To be that close to victory when labour is that low, I’m not completely certain I’d make that call if labour are at 30% a week out from the election. I wouldn’t be comfortable, but I sure wouldn’t be predicting defeat as a certainty.

        • The Al1en 1.2.1.1

          It’s a simple enough couple of questions question, yet the nature of politics dictates it won’t get an answer from those it’s really asked, but in the real world away from the house, when they’re human like the rest of you, they’ll know what I’m on about, and that’s what I’m all about.

          Devastating political scandal for key or the nats aside, or a last minute game changer than comes from left field (won’t be from Labour then 😉 ) and surprises everyone, as we are all repeatedly told by the media during campaigns that voters minds are already made up well in advance of a poll date, there’s a time when at least 22 of caucus who won’t even be aware of my challenge will sit and think, shit.
          I don’t know whether it’s the night before, a week out a month or even dare I suggest those in caucus who voted for a vote for leader who can already tell this far out, but even though you probably won’t care too much (depending on your list ranking), I told you so, losers. 😆

          Biggest laugh at my expense is if Shearer slashes at Key’s poll rating and storms to a landslide election, winning by fighting for the NZ public on a platform of equality and opportunity for all kiwis.
          Someone best make a record and post on election night to compound my ignorance. 😀

          • McFlock 1.2.1.1.1

            hah – I’ve lost the link where I gave a timeframe for when I’d expect labour to get a 35% poll or two, before calling it another goff term.

            But I reckon your penultimate sentence wouldn’t be so much of at the expense of yourself, or the country. 🙂

            • The Al1en 1.2.1.1.1.1

              It’s a fair cop, guvnor, :thumbsup:
              But just like what’s the point in having a heart and a sleeve if you don’t wear one on the other?
              What’s the point in having money and a mouth if you won’t/can’t put them together?

              Death and taxes – Fact.
              Words without action – Not.

  2. geoff 2

    Maybe this is why Key wants to hang onto Parata a bit longer, she’s got to be the fall-guy
    a bit longer:

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/127323/govt-poised-to-make-big-school-reforms,-papers-show

    • Lanthanide 2.1

      Yep

    • AsleepWhileWorking 2.2

      “Treasury documents indicate that the Government is considering major reforms of the school system.

      The papers show improving the system is the Treasury’s highest priority and emphasise raising the quality of teaching.”

      The highest priority is creating more upheaval in the school system? Not housing, not child poverty, not the chronic shortage of doctors.

      • kiwicommie 2.2.1

        They are putting in place charter schools, by the time National leaves office I wouldn’t be surprised if thousands more of kids come out of school with no qualifications and no future. Just the perfect slave labour for their corporate mates.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3

      The papers show improving the system is the Treasury’s highest priority and emphasise raising the quality of teaching.

      And just what the hell does Treasury know about teaching?

      Oh, that’s right, absolutely nothing. That’s why we have a Ministry of Education.

      Overall, they show the Treasury has a strong interest in the school system and little faith in increased competition as a way of improving performance.

      Now will they apply that to the economy as well?

      Not bloody likely.

  3. xtasy 3

    Paula Bennett was interviewed by Kathryn Ryan of Radio New Zealand National yesterday morning (04 Feb., 09:05 am) on welfare numbers, the welfare reforms to be pushed through by her government, whether they were justified, correct and representative, and more.

    On the nine to noon program there were also Alan Johnson, Salvation Army social policy analyst and Susan St John from Auckland Uni, elaborating on controversial figures, why the mainstream media misrepresents the truth about beneficiaries, the numbers of them, the reasons for being on benefits and rather just tends to high-light and present the extreme, bizarre, very unusual cases to the public.

    It is well worth a listen and to do some good, critical thinking about it.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/20130204

    Bennett was again, as so often, getting a lot of figures wrong, confusing some, and naturally did “not have them before her” in too many cases. So she continues to create a lot of “mist”, uncertainties, she is distracting and full of ambiguities and misrepresentation.

    Of course the program once again only scratched the very surface of a whole range of issues, that will become very clear to the many that will be very adversely and seriously affected, yes harmed, by the reforms that will be pushed through by way of the ‘Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill’, presently before the Social Services Committee of Parliament.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/20130204

    Also, do not forget, where Bennett comes from, and what her speech revealed, that she held to medical professionals (who will be instrumental in part, to force sick, injured and disabled into some forms of work) on 26 Sept. 2012. Read between the lines, and realise the absolute focus on the supposed UK findings, that are supposed to be the “international” evidence that work is kind of “remedial” to all people.

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/speech-medical-professionals

    I have not found much of other “international” evidence though that supports the extreme, bizarre and perverted interpretation of a so-called “bio psycho-social model” for assessing and re-integrating disabled and sick into work, that a Professor Sir Mansel Aylward (from a partly private insurance financed department at Cardiff University), who also helped develop and introduced tough work ability assessments at the Department of Work and Pensions in the UK (first under Thatcher), did bring in there.

    http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2013/01/11/new-zealand-british-style-work-tests-concern-tests-were-developed-by-disability-expert-prof-sir-mansel-aylward/

    http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/05/31/a-tale-of-two-models-disabled-people-vs-unum-atos-government-and-disability-charities-by-debbie-jolly-dpac/

    http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/10/31/government-use-might-of-american-insurance-giant-to-destroy-uk-safety-net-by-mo-stewart-update/

    The true agenda is about these “reforms” is all about cost savings, and nothing else!!!

    The UK model is seriously considered as a foundation upon the Ministry of Social Development and Work and Income are planning to change the whole medical assessment and work testing regime for sickness and invalid’s beneficiaries. THIS ALL IS COMING HERE AND DUE TO BECOME THE NORM FOR NZ.

    This is a space to watch, as NZ is in danger of making serious mistakes that have been made already by following similar, draconian reforms and bizarre work-testing regimes in the UK over recent years. Already many there died through trying to work while they really could not, or were in extreme cases driven to commit suicide. Grim stuff this is.

    • tc 3.1

      ‘Grim stuff this is.’, aye it’s what the NACT do best.

      Bennett shows that’s it’s all about ideology, facts are to be dismissed if they don’t support your case or twisted if possible with a few slogans to spin and confuse.

      Bennett is a hypocrite who is pulling the ladder up behind her and being applauded by that other beneficiary of welfare John Key.

      Ryan’s too lightweight, that’s why they go on.

    • Skinny 3.2

      As the Labour/Green/NZFirst? coalition, noticeably surpass National in popularity, (polls indicating that move now)    we will see those vote gaining tactic’s of welfare/benefit attacks. Maori will cop the usual ‘what more do they want slurs.’ which is a reliable vote earner also. 

      Xl you make some good points.        

    • just saying 3.3

      Keep up the good work Xtasy.
      I’m feeling pretty despondant about affecting positive change. I don’t know if TS will go ahead with brainstorming policy given our powerlessness in getting Labour to pay attention, but maybe someone who has some influence will pause for thought over something they read here, sometime, and that will make it worthwhile.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.3.1

        It’s not up to us on TS to get Labour to pay attention. It really is up to them to engage the community and so far, from what I can make out, they’re failing miserably.

    • AsleepWhileWorking 3.4

      Thanks for the links X, this needs much more coverage than it is getting. The system is ALREADY damaging for disabled persons and the able bodied (eg access difficulties, lack of understanding, overworked staff not informing people of their full and correct entitlement which IMHO is a key driver of poverty in this country).

      Paula’s only idea is to stick with the main ideas behind the British model which caused and continues to cause such great social harm.

      It’s almost a form of eugenics/social cleansing.

      • kiwicommie 3.4.1

        People with disabilities struggled under Labour, now they are denied basic human rights under National. When Labour and the Greens take over the books in 2014 they will find thousands of children that have fallen in the cracks, who if the government had just given teacher aids and sufficient resources could have been productive members of society. National doesn’t care about those with disabilities, it believes in eugenics i.e. letting the worst off members of society starve, kill themselves or end up homeless on the street.
        Edit: So yeah you are right. 😉

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 3.4.1.1

          When Labour and the Greens take over the books in 2014 they will find thousands of children that have fallen in the cracks…

          There will be children in the cracks of the books?

          • quartz 3.4.1.1.1

            You’re a book crack.

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 3.4.1.1.1.1

              Good one.

              • xtasy

                NO, your book is cracked, same as your mind seems to be “cracked”.

                Common sense, reading real information and understanding what is behind stuff is not your strenghth, it seems. Well, to be honest, you do not really care, as you are just one of the few frequenting TS to stir up crap, but contribute little of substance.

                Enjoy your little space in narrow mind, the smaller it gets.

      • xtasy 3.4.2

        Like some time long before Christmas (to 2 email addresses at RNZ) – again yesterday substantial information on some of what is already happening at the hands of MSD and WINZ in this regards, was sent to Kathryn Ryan at Radio NZ National yesterday afternoon.

        My expectation is – it will just be put aside as too much and too complex information to bother looking at, so it will NOT be reported on.

        Lead story today is the football fraud scandal exposed by Europol, that has spread world-wide and is being exposed now. So most that are interested in sports and other matters will pay attention to that, rather than what really matters.

        The media (mainstream that is) does not give a damn about beneficiaries or sick and disabled, unless they are cases that can be presented as sob or pity story material – to gain in viewing and listening quotas – that will also enable to sell yet more advertising.

        That is what Campbell Live and others are doing. Sorry to upset the ones that may think he is doing some “good work”. Yes, it may be for a good cause, some of it, but it never seems to be without ulterior goals.

  4. Two very contrasting blog posts, Chris Trotter’s a sting in the tail on why Labour needs to commit to helping the poorest amongst us.

    And at the opposite end of the spectrum in both compassion, understanding and comprehension Josie Pagani posts on, at least I think she is posting on, why Labour needs to be more right wing and why beneficiaries should only be tolerated and Labour needs to get tougher on crime.

    The next time she advertised as being “of the left” should be met with a complaint that it is misleading.

    • Sanctuary 4.1

      Pagani acting as the last, distant colonial outpost of Blairism would be funny, except that I suspect her thinking is close to the feeble ideology at the top of the parliamentary Labour party. As such, I think she provides a fascinating insight into the sort of arguments that seem to under pin much of Labour’s policy at the moment.

    • xtasy 4.2

      MS – I saw Trotter’s story last night, but did not yet read it in detail.

      That link works, but the other hyperlink you put in for Pagani does not lead to the story.

        • mickysavage 4.2.1.1

          Thanks Joe90. Apologies for rushing it.

        • xtasy 4.2.1.2

          Thanks for that.

          It reminds me very much of what I heard from Phil Goff, when a minister many years ago. Cracking down on crime, doing this and that, supporting the military and what else comes to mind.

          Pagani is stuck in the Blairite Bubble, I must say, she will likely never get out of it, because once it pops, she will drop and hurt herself, thus ending in a personality crisis.

          I heard also yesterday (on the BBC World Service that was), that the French may not just have gone to deal to “islamist extremist threats” in Mali, but perhaps also bore in mind the rich uranium and other resources found there!?

          That makes it look a bit more like “a little Iraq style invasion” then.

          Maybe Shearer will invest his UN and strategic thinking skills by suggesting to send NZ troops to sort out Fiji, in order to “restore democracy”?

        • bad12 4.2.1.3

          The interesting bits on that page are to be found in the comment section at the bottom of the page,

          The best that can be said for the writer of that piece is in the nature of revelation, it appears that being a ‘political contortionist’ allows Her to suck the air She breathes out of Her own anus…

        • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.4

          Quoting Article:

          if the left can’t debate crime and welfare with more depth than saying ‘but look over there! At the economy!’, then it is repudiating its own principles.

          I don’t see anyone on the left doing that. See it plenty on the right though as they work to distract from their failed policies that come directly from their failed ideology.

          Other than that, I don’t think she managed to say anything.

          • Scintilla 4.2.1.4.1

            What drivel – whatever point she was trying to make was lost in a sea of dross. She must be Special Adviser to Shearer.

          • kiwi_prometheus 4.2.1.4.2

            ” their failed ideology”

            As compared to the absolutely fabulous concoction on the contemporary Left of Deconstructionist Intellectual Fraudsters/Feminist Man Hating/Neo Marxist mumbo jumbo.

            • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.4.2.1

              Yep, k_p still fails to make any sense whatsoever.

              Tell, were you born that stupid or did you have to work at it?

              • xtasy

                Unenlightened people often are damned to work very, very hard, so some keep trying here, working very, very hard, repeating the same all over again, as some know no better, to get somewhere.

                Whether it pays off is not relevant, as the exercise of banging the head against the brick wall sets off endless flows of adrenalin, that give some hormonal feelings of “encouragement” or stoicism, it will end up feeling quite “good” of sorts for the endless head banger. So add the dots together perhaps.

    • felixviper 4.3

      “The next time she advertised as being “of the left” should be met with a complaint that it is misleading.”

      She was on Larry Williams’ show last night with Cameron Slater. She agreed with everything he said.

    • bad12 4.4

      What you notice about Pagani and the whole Neo-lib tribe that currently occupies ‘the middle ground’ is that the ‘problem’ is always framed as being ‘WELFARE’,

      That of course allows them to concentrate solely upon a narrow line of dialogue, and thus ‘reforms’ become acceptable in that ‘middle ground’,

      It is in fact ‘the economy’ and ’employment’ where the focus should be, it is obvious to everyone except the most blatant of LIARS that there are more people available for work than there is work in the economy,

      Thus continually whipping those reliant upon welfare to even ‘look’ for work is simply BULLSHIT,(as a commenter pointed out Pagani’s comments were),

      As Pagani is firmly mired in the middle class when She talks of Socialism, She is talking of the Socialism of the middle classes where that class is continually pandered to by the political class…

    • Murray Olsen 4.5

      Pagani would seem to argue that Blair invaded other countries for good reasons, while his partner in crime, Bush, was invading the same countries for bad reasons. I have a real love/hate relationship with the way these fake lefties are able to contort their ideas to suit any actions whatsoever. It’s frightening and enetertaining at the same time.

  5. AsleepWhileWorking 5

    Just listened to the first part of the interview….in the first minute or so Ryan reveals the number of people on the unemployment benefit for 15 years or more? TWELVE PEOPLE.

    The number of people on the dole for 20 years or more? FOUR.

    Citing extreme examples to illustrate we have an issue that only they (National) have the guts to solve has been the approach to welfare.

    • xtasy 5.1

      That was the good part of the whole interview, how Bennett and the government on one hand are exposed as exploiting and abusing figures to portray a “dramatic” “crisis” kind of scenario asking for urgent action, and how especially the MSM totally mis-report, misrepresent and basically LIE to the public about what is happening in the area of benefit dependence, needs and challenges.

      It is all only about headlines about selected, bizarre, totally out of the ordinary EXTREME cases, that they report on, NOT FACTS and balanced figures and details!

      This must be exposed more, for sure, as the MSM appear to be complicit in the war on the welfare system and affected beneficiaries this government is leading now. That is NOT what the so-called “4th estate” is there for.

    • bad12 5.2

      What interested me was the bloke up Gizzy way that had been on the dole for 25 years, now that man should be given a gold watch,

      By being a well behaved citizen over that 25 years, he has quite heroically in my opinion given up the pursuit of more money so as to enable others to take up any work on offer,

      In a province of economic decline this man has selflessly gone without on the doles meager income allowing others to earn those higher wages,

      Should this man have entered the workforce at any time in those 25 years in a province with a declining economy someone else would have had to take the position previously occupied by that bloke,

      While the above is a little out of left field it is in ‘fact’ the truth, in a declining economy for a person to gain employment there is every chance that someone in another part of that economy will have stopped being employed…

      • kiwi_prometheus 5.2.1

        He’s a lazy good for nothing.

        Probably grows dope, deals and sits on his fat bum, stoned most of the time.

        A quarter century doing nothing?

        • Te Reo Putake 5.2.1.1

          Jeez, KP, I thought you were keen on the entrepeneurial spirit? Why are you putting the boot into a man you believe to be running an effective small business for quarter of a century?

          Y’know, in that 25 years, the bloke will have seen various welfare administrations, maybe ten Ministers of Employment, several name changes at the DOSS/Social Welfare/WINZ/MOBIE and countless case managers who would all have bounced him off the dole in a heartbeat if they could.

          Presumably he has been getting the benefit for 25 years for dinkum reasons. That’s fine by me.

          • kiwi_prometheus 5.2.1.1.1

            “…countless case managers who would all have bounced him off the dole in a heartbeat if they could. ”

            As you well know the stories of incompetency are endless coming out of the welfare system.

            Maybe he’s got a few “cussie brews” in that little country town branch.

            • bad12 5.2.1.1.1.1

              Pathetic use of a popularism of language you dick-head, even a 5 year old knows that its cuzzy-bro…

              • kiwi_prometheus

                Yeah but the way you spell it isn’t phonetic, lol.

                I can’t even understand half what most Maoris say their English pronunciation is so poor.

        • bad12 5.2.1.2

          So is there some difference in 1 person ‘doing nothing’ for 25 years as you put it and 10 people over the same period spending 18 months each doing nothing,

          i realize that your a ‘wing-nut’ so have to take into account your limited ability to actually ‘think’ but in a Gisborne type situation with an economy in continual decline someone ‘has’ to be unemployed,

          Given that little ‘fact’ our ‘gold watch’ beneficiary would have to take someone else’s employment or if a newly created employment position appeared in the local economy deny someone else that employment position,

          Which simply means that should that Bloke in Gizzy have ‘got a job’ someone else in Gizzy wouldn’t have one…

          • kiwi_prometheus 5.2.1.2.1

            Engaging in sophistry there, bad12 – not that you would know what the word means without looking it up first.

            The idea that the long term unemployed are taking one for the team is so self evidently absurd, I can only respond with the same question re Draco T below, why don’t any of the Left parties use your brilliant dazzling argument in their public statements on the issue?

            • Colonial Weka 5.2.1.2.1.1

              because of bigoted voters like you?

            • bad12 5.2.1.2.1.2

              What is exactly misleading or wrong about the above statement you sexually self-fulfilling, pathetic T thing that resides under a bridge, aint a goat, but in all probability has the odor of one,

              Because you have attached to the above the label of sophism means little, nay nothing, without first having provided a narrative which proves the sophism,

              Or perhaps you like Paula believe in the magic of the word ‘seeking’ and thus the more people seeking work the more people will have work which is in fact the real sophism,

              Of course you also believe that the free market rules in which case the 175,000-185,000 currently seeking work are simply part of a natural market lead pool of available labour,

              To believe in both tho is to simply point out that you are in all likely-hood a sufferer of Schizophrenia or some other disease of the mind a fact that none here would find surprising about you…

              • kiwi_prometheus

                Paula?

                I don’t like her. I’m not a right winger. I’m not a neo-con.

                I like old skool Left Liberalism plus any ideas that are free from too much ideological constraint.

                For example, Gareth Morgan’s take on the Welfare System – Health, Pension etc. It’s in a crisis, his Big Kahuna idea deals with the issues and makes an interesting proposal for a solution.

                I don’t like Feminist Man Haters/Deconstructionists/Anti-white, anti-Western Multiculturalists.

                The Left has crashed and burned thanks to those idiots.

                • bad12

                  AAAAAH dummy lift your game, ”perhaps you like Paula” is obviously a reference to you being ‘alike’ in attitude even a 4 year old could have figured that,

                  I see no narrative which proves the sophism of your accusation and changing the subject at 100 k an hour just does not cut it,

                  I don’t much care what or who you are, your comments reek of SCUM, therefor you shall be known by your comments…

                • fatty

                  plus any ideas that are free from too much ideological constraint.

                  Lol…your ‘white is right’ is the most powerful ideology we’ve ever had…shame for you it went out of fashion in the 80s

        • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1.3

          How do you know he was doing nothing?

          In fact, if he was growing dope he couldn’t possibly have been sitting on his arse and he would have been providing a service that the community wants. It’s not his fault that the laws are so stupid as to outlaw a service that the community wants forcing him to declare himself unemployed (that’s if he was growing dope which we’re only speculating upon).

          Really, what it comes down to is the simple fact that you’re an idiot. You didn’t even realise that you contradicted yourself.

          • kiwi_prometheus 5.2.1.3.1

            There is no contradiction.

            The idea that growing dope is necessarily a busy full time occupation is one you are assuming in order to create your straw man argument.

            So you are the idiot.

            ‘providing a service that the community wants.’

            Too bad David Shearer and the Labour Party don’t put that in their speeches, eh? Guess you think that just goes to show the Labour Party are a bunch of neo liberal sell outs and have betrayed the true Leftists like your enlightened self.

            Sigh.

            • felixviper 5.2.1.3.1.1

              Regardless of whatever you think about cannabis use it’s self-evidently a high demand product. I don’t see how you can argue that cannabis growers are not providing a service any more than you could argue that neither do tomato growers or parsley growers or broccoli growers.

              I suppose that’s why you didn’t bother.

              • kiwi_prometheus

                I haven’t argue he is not providing a service, you muppet.

                • The Al1en

                  Fish fingers or chicken nuggets? And get off the computer or you can’t watch Glee :nob:

                • felixviper

                  “I haven’t argue he is not providing a service, you muppet.”

                  I realise that, you fraggle. However you did quote the phrase and then made a vague attempt to ridicule the bearer of it, so I think it’s fair to assume that you have an opinion on the matter.

                  I’m just trying to provide you with an opportunity to express it.

                  • kiwi_prometheus

                    “I don’t see how you can argue that cannabis growers are not providing a service”

                    You are contradicting yourself, are you are Deconstructionist Feminist?

            • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1.3.1.2

              The idea that growing dope is necessarily a busy full time occupation is one you are assuming in order to create your straw man argument.

              So, according to you, farmers aren’t busy full time workers?

              • kiwi_prometheus

                So you are trying to equate some useless bum doing some small time growing or dealing to supplement his indolent lifestyle with a farmer.

                Well done. Are you a Deconstructionist?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Useless bum? That’s no way to address the entrepreneurial spirit. Shame on you, falling for the tall poppy (hemp) syndrome.

        • McFlock 5.2.1.4

          Wow KP, is that the lifestyle you’d choose if you could?

          You sound kind of bitter for a hippy.

      • RedBaronCV 5.2.2

        If he’s the same bloke I read a story about in the paper a while ago then he gets about $10 a week because his earnings don’t reach the cut off point.

  6. debatewatcher viper 6

    There was quite a lengthy interview with David Shearer on the Larry Williams show on Newstalk ZB yesterday, about 8 minutes. All the important questions were asked. Highly recommend it. Does it remind anyone else of overnight talkback?

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/player/ondemand/1540088868-david-shearer-to-prove-he-can-lead-the-nation

    Also for anyone who hasn’t seen it: Matthew Hooton’s NBR piece which suggests that Shearer should freeze Cunliffe out completely: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/cunliffes-throat-must-now-be-cut-ck-135370

    In the Newstalk ZB clip, it’s interesting that Shearer brought up the reshuffle himself when asked what would happen to Cunliffe, while remaining non-committal. I wonder if he’s planning to offer Cunliffe a front-bench portfolio in exchange for a public pledge of loyalty/endorsement?

    And in true talkback style, I’d like to know what others think.

    • gobsmacked 6.1

      Does it remind anyone else of overnight talkback?

      That’s exactly what I thought. You have to pinch yourself and say “My God, this really is the leader of the opposition!”, not dotty Don from Dargaville at 3 a.m.

      This is why Shearer’s defenders on here totally miss the point. The number of “negative” comments on the Standard is dwarfed by the audience for Newstalk ZB.

      Shearer cocks up in front of millions, every week.

      But if we point out his cock-ups, apparently we’re the real problem?

  7. NoseViper (The Nose knows) 8

    I’ve just read a quote from one of John Buchan’s books. He was a great Empire man, strong on duty and colonial exploration and resource hunting and became Governor General of Canada.
    This from The Runagates Club published 1928.

    It has relevance for today in English speaking countries with the move to the right and desire for excess and self rather than the national and people’s interest and service with good governance.

    From the Bath, in its most exotic form, degenerate patrician youth passed to the coarse delights of the Circus, and thence to that parody of public duties which it was still the fashion of their class to patronise.
    Von Letterbeck: Imperial Rome>/i>

  8. The Greens should get their engines running and all their ducks in a row,because i
    am picking there will be an influx of left wing voters in 2014.

    • bad12 9.1

      The Green Party has had for quite a number of years now had ‘it’s engines running’ and this is evidenced by the number of ‘hits’ scored on the Slippery lead National Government in the House at question time, and the ‘fact’ that when seeking comment on any issue of the day the media are just as likely to ask the Green Party for comment as they are to ask Labour,

      The Green Party Housing policy in content and intent shows that the Green Party is well ahead in developing policy which directly benefits those most in need in our society and i believe that in the next 18 months we will see much more of this intelligent policy released to the electorate…

      • Agreed bad12,that’s why i am now getting their e-mails, i have seen the light.

        • bad12 9.1.1.1

          Lolz, bloody good on you then, the constant flow of what i see as negativity which flows through the pages of the Standard toward Labour is in my view counter-productive,

          Labour at present(this is opinion), as a party are mostly middle class people, probably in the main well educated and comfortable in their employment,

          Socialism has in the main been educated out of the psyche of such people as they have embraced the newer culture of ‘what’s in it for me’,

          Labour, as in the last Labour lead Government and the present Labour Opposition simply reflect this comfortable middle class and the continuous venting of anger at them hasn’t as far as i can see changed that one iota,

          There may be a ‘mood’ within the Labour Party it’self to change that but my view is that such a ‘mood’ from within the Party will take 10 years to translate into a change in the attitude of the Party’s MP’s,

          Given that, there are 2 choices activist member of the broad left have, the first being to become even more active within the Party, not necessarily as a means to gain immediate change in the make-up and attitude of the Labour MP’s, but as a 10 year plan to transform the Party back if you will excuse the use of the word to expressing the core of Labour values,

          Option 2 of course is to simply walk away from Labour and give both our monetary and electoral support to the Party which best expresses at this point in time our political and economic values…

  9. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 10

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/02/a_standard_strategy.html

    • bad12 10.1

      Comment from the Sewer that is factually incorrect, now who would have thunk that???,

      Annette King was commenting on the Standard weeks befor the Leadership vote held yesterday, while Annette cannot as She is bound to support the Caucus and the Party’s policies stray far from simply stating those policies much ‘Could’ be changed by commentor’s here at the Standard putting up comments that highlight any flaws perceived in Labour Party policy while proposing well thought out alternatives…

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 10.1.1

        …Annette cannot as She is bound…

        Is she divine?

        • bad12 10.1.1.1

          The Gormless Fool, the name suits you and when applied to you is obviously correct, which is about the only thing you have ever got right in your brief occupation of the skin you are in,

          What the f**k is that comment supposed to mean, other than a display of your abject stupidity that is???…

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 10.1.1.1.1

            Why don’t you explain the system, as you understand it, for the capitalisation of nouns. Let’s then see who is gormless.

            • bad12 10.1.1.1.1.1

              I profess to having not an iota of adherence to any such system as you inquire about,

              Gormless we all already know who is gormless around here the fact of which you continually prove beyond a doubt…

  10. joe90 11

    The long game,

    Folks, we are in a real crisis here. Wealthy right-wing interest groups and sectarian lobbies are waging an all-out war on public schools. They want to destroy the public school system and move to a market-driven system where taxpayers are forced to support religious and other private schools of all sorts.

    http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2013/02/seven-days-of-deception-school-choice-week-is-over/

  11. lol – wonder if anyone will take up shearers idea of saying, “Happy Waitangi Day” – what a fuckwit he is.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8262156/Shearer-urges-honours-on-Waitangi-Day

    • xtasy 12.1

      He may as well say “happy wankers day”, referring to the day he “won” over Carcass Caucus.

  12. bad12 13

    Unemployment is this- Having cut the civil service to the bare minimum needed to operate such a service the present Slippery lead National Government has ‘defined’ for us what a market lead economy will deliver to us as a nation in terms of the number of actual jobs in the economy,

    So given that there are currently 175,000-185,000 unemployed in this country we can ‘see’ that this is a ‘true’ reflection of the market economies ability to employ people,

    OK, another given is that we are currently in the midst of a economic depression we can also ‘see’ that given an ‘upturn’ the actual number of those the market economy has the ability to employ would still leave us with 125,000-135,000 souls who that market does not have the ability to employ,

    It then also becomes obvious to us all that to continually require those who the market economy has FAILED to find an economic use for to seek work which does not exist and prove that they have actually been seeking this non-existent employment would at the least require a belief in ‘magic’ in that anyone who believes that a person simply seeking such employment will radically alter what is a ‘fact’ of that market economy,

    The truth of the little ‘fact’ above is to be found in the numbers of those who are unemployed and currently receiving the unemployment benefit attached to which is the requirement to seek work,

    Obviously if the act of simply ‘seeking’ work radically changed the ‘market economy’ there would be a radical decline in the numbers of those receiving that particular benefit,

    Until such time as Politicians begin to tell the truth about how many of us can be employed by the market economy unemployment is always going to be addressed from the narrow confines of dialogue where the reality is ignored in favor of a belief in magic solutions and further denigration of those the market economy has FAILED to be capable of employing,

    I would suggest that as a first step that those politicians which have shown a propensity to believe in such magic solutions to the ‘problem’ of unemployment while claiming the ‘market economy’ is working as it should be should be examined by a medical professional for signs of Schizophrenia as any belief in both is in fact a belief in 2 propositions at the same point on the same subject that are diametrically opposed to each other…

  13. There is a cartoon on the herald which it tags ‘Next time,Mr Shearer’
    ‘Just appoint yourself to the roll and they will take it on the chin,works
    for me every time’

    Eludes to Titewhai Harawira at Te tii Marae happenings.

  14. Morrissey 15

    The Wit of Graham Bell
    The Panel, National Radio, Tuesday 5 February 2013
    Jim Mora, Graham Bell, David Slack

    JIM MORA: Noelle, what is the world talking about?

    NOELLE McCARTHY: Well, a story that has caught our attention is one from right here in New Zealand, about a kea in the South Island. It stole one thousand dollars from a Scottish tourist who left the money on the front seat of his car.

    GRAHAM BELL: That’s unusual for a Scotsman! A ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    [Long, awkward silence. Nobody else laughs. Nobody.]

    Just before the news, an item about gender-based driving aptitude leads to another unleashing of the finely honed Bell wit….

    GRAHAM BELL: That will be good news for men, because women are always teaching us how to drive.

    [Long silence]

    GRAHAM BELL: A ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    [Awkward silence]

    JIM MORA: Oh! I see what you mean. Ha.

    DAVID SLACK: [uneasily] Hur hur hur.

    [Awkward silence]

    MORA: Okay, time for the four o’clock news.

  15. smokeskreen 16

    According to the Waikato Times today, the Waikato town of Pokeno will be home to the first Chinese milk processing plant in New Zealand if Chinese company Yashili International, is given the green light (by the Overseas Investment Office) to buy land for its planned $210 million baby formula operation – creating 100 local jobs. Yashili International, one of China’s biggest baby formula and soymilk powder makers, has a conditional agreement to buy land in Pokeno’s Gateway business park.

    Here we go again! NZ is becoming a soft touch for this type of deal and it appears it is now open season to all comers to establish this type of operation in one of our key industries on land we are prepared to sell for this purpose.

    It appears that Chinese company Shanghai Pengxin (buyer of the Crafar Farms), may have been the pathfinder in setting a template for this operation currently under consideration. It goes something like this – establish a NZ registered company and then appoint a New Zealander to front it to legitimise it. It appears these moves into NZ are being encouraged by the Chinese government’s decision to substantially reduce import tariffs on finished milk formula.

    What are we doing in this country? We must not continue to sell our land to allow major overseas players to establish in our key industries and compete against us.

    • bad12 16.1

      That just highlights a major failure of Fonterra’s business model, while making adult milk formula and milk formula for small children other than babies Fonterra has failed it’s share-holders by it’s lax attitude to the baby milk formula market in the Asian economies,

      Fonterra chose instead to simply supply the raw product to another company i have forgotten the name of under contract which has lad in turn to Fonterra supplying a major competitor, Nestle, as that company has now purchased that company and the supply contracts,

      My belief is that the ‘internationalists’ in control of Fonterra will at some stage have removed from the farmer share-holders enough ‘power’ to be able to on-sell Fonterra on the global market,

      That as the Chinese are at present seriously building what will eventually become a huge dairy herd will be at a heavily discounted price…

    • Colonial Viper 16.2

      Chinese majority owned Synlait already have more than one milk plant planned/up and running.

    • xtasy 16.3

      PREPARE for the influx of “specially skilled” employees under the China NZ FTA, as in that plant, it will be likely that Mandarin and/or Cantonese will at least be the “official” language of instructions, so any staff working there, will naturally require sufficient language skills, to be able to understand such instructions and to communicate.

      NZ Immigration is always very helpful and works together with other agencies and stakeholders and employers to find the most suitable solutions to help everyone involved.

      Take it then, there will be the clause used, to get as many Mainland Chinese workers in as they can, to also work “efficiently” and according to “cultural” and other just economic, social and scientific requirements, that are specific to meeting the very needs of the Mainland Chinese consumer. Particular recipes, mixtures and whatever, to get the end product, will be highly commercially sensitive, and this will only be able to be entrusted to, and handled by, competent, knowledgeable, suitably skilled and qualified, also Mandarin or Cantonese literate employees.

      Permits granted!

      HOOTON, and Fran O Sullivan, now you come!

      • kiwi_prometheus 16.3.1

        But…but..NZ is multicultural!

        Multiculturalism will only make NZ culture richer!

        You are just privileged, white male, heteronormative, cisgender, rape culture promoting, racist, colonialist, imperialistic, essentialist scumbags!!!

        • Colonial Viper 16.3.1.1

          If you have any economic points to make in-between your irrelevant ranting, please feel free.

  16. joe90 17

    The world owes an awful lot to Abba Alhadi and his friends.

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/people-timbuktu-save-manuscripts-invaders

    • kiwi_prometheus 17.1

      And to think the multiculturalists are happy to let as many Muslims into New Zealander as want to come.

      • xtasy 17.1.1

        That may be “multiculturalist muslims” though. KPee

      • bad12 17.1.2

        And to think that peoples from Arab countries now living in New Zealand have anything to do with such destruction a world away makes you-(search for big word), just scum..

        • xtasy 17.1.2.1

          What are you on about, got a problem? Arabs, non arabs, all other nationalities get on with their lives, you just start arguing about something I cannot even decipher. It is nonsensical what you last wrote.

          • xtasy 17.1.2.1.1

            I probably misuderstood you in a wrong way, as you may have been more worked up with commenter “above”, sorry.

        • kiwi_prometheus 17.1.2.2

          Really?

          So the massive flood of Muslims into Western Europe hasn’t brought their problems with them?

          Multiculturalism has been a resounding success in Europe has it?

          And you think we can look forward to the same wondrous effects in NZ, right?

          You are in self denial or maybe you welcome the erosion of Western Civilization.

          • xtasy 17.1.2.2.1

            KPee – you love Breivik, it seems, or at least agree with his “philosophy”, right, yeah right, I should say and ask?!

          • xtasy 17.1.2.2.2

            KPee I am perhaps also a JIHADEE, so what are you going to do about it, hypothetically???

          • xtasy 17.1.2.2.3

            Let me get someone from “Anonymous” onto you while you wait, we will soon find out, who you are, what you do, where you live and the rest of it. That will make you feel very trusting, I am sure, as I trust you fully, and as you can trust me fully, that is if that can all work, aye?!

            • kiwi_prometheus 17.1.2.2.3.1

              So that’s how it works around here, you threaten and intimidate anyone who doesn’t go along with your nonsense.

              You are just as crazy as any ideologue of Left or Right

          • bad12 17.1.2.2.4

            The demise of Western civilization, perlease!!!, that nearly fucking got my heart to stop, the laughter at you for inserting such a phrase into a comment that is,

            Can you please, please, please expand upon this destruction of western civilization for me, fuck i love a laugh and your a hoot, the biggest one in town,

            It’s all a Muslim conspiracy right KP, out of 20 households in my small street there are 2 that are definitely from the Arab countries, do you think i should bar the windows and put extra locks on the door against the time they break out screaming Allah Akbar whilst mowing down the neighborhood cats with the un-stashed AK47’s,

            Actually you useless piece of cum-stain they just do normal things the same as what everyone else in the street does, they pretty much keep to themselves which shock-horror the white folks majority of the street does as well…

            • xtasy 17.1.2.2.4.1

              bad12: You do NOT understand that you must forthwith conform and convert to ISLAM. That is the ONLY “true” religion. I fyou cannot convert, the devil will get you! That is the truth about religion. Get a fear of the devil now, I tell, you for Jesus Muhammed and others.

          • fatty 17.1.2.2.5

            So the massive flood of Muslims into Western Europe hasn’t brought their problems with them?

            Yes, Muslims didn’t bring their problems with them…Muslim problems in Western Europe developed in Western Europe and also involve a Western Europeans…as well as economic, social and political inequality.

            Multiculturalism has been a resounding success in Europe has it?

            No, there are multiple reasons for this, including: the incoming culture, the existing culture, economic issues, political issues etc

            And you think we can look forward to the same wondrous effects in NZ, right?

            Yes, if we continue to deal with it in the same way that Europe has.

            You are in self denial or maybe you welcome the erosion of Western Civilization.

            Yes, but not complete erosion. Just until one civilisation is no longer dominant to the point that it oppresses another cilivilisation.

  17. Murray Olsen 18

    Are email notifications likely to ever work for me again?

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    2 weeks ago
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    3 weeks ago
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    3 weeks ago

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  • Speech by the Minister of Defence to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs
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