Open mike 05/04/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 5th, 2015 - 124 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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124 comments on “Open mike 05/04/2015 ”

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  1. Adrian 1
    5 April 2015 at 7:50 am

    News today that Hahei motor camp is on the market, as is the Whangamata one is bad news for those who cannot afford $2mil beach houses, the less well-off missing out on what used to be a seemingly Gods-own right of a beachfront summer holiday.
    What happened to the policy of the Gummint buying these last remaining refuges to save them for the people ?.
    It must have been a Labour policy, it obviously doesen’t fit in with “the market will provide”, for the few.

    • weka 1.1
      5 April 2015 at 7:57 am

      were they council owned?

      • millsy 1.1.1
        5 April 2015 at 6:39 pm

        They look to be privately owned.

        Council/DOC owned camping grounds are on reserve land that cant be sold without revocation of reserve status and that needed to be signed off by the minister of conservation*

        They tend to be either leased to a mum and dad operator or run by the council/DOC itself.

        * = unfortunately the government sneaked through a law change enabling councils to revoke reserve status without needing ministerial permission, meaning Tory-led councils can flog off parks and reserves with government ‘encouragement’.

  2. Paul 2
    5 April 2015 at 7:53 am

    ‘Why Do Good People Become Silent—or Worse—About 9/11?’
    By Frances T. Shure

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41437.htm

    For trp and others in denial about 9/11

    • lurgee 2.1
      5 April 2015 at 8:08 am

      Is Open Mike the place where the deranged and strange are allowed to play?

      If so, I’ll avoid it.

      Though I’m premeptive mock Pasupial’s feeble protest. Nice to see he’s in the right place.

      • Paul 2.1.1
        5 April 2015 at 8:40 am

        So you actually read the article?
        Of came to a prejudiced opinion?

        • lurgee 2.1.1.1
          5 April 2015 at 8:53 am

          I started reading it under the impression it was about how 9-11 troofers could maintain bizarre ideas in the face of evidence. Then I realised it was positing the troofers were right and the rest of us (the sane people) were the ones with the bizarre ideas. So I stopped reading it.

          So, yeah, I let my prejudices get the better of me. Because I’ve wasted far too much time investigating the claims of troofer types and they never amount to anything more than paranoid fantasies.

          Maybe you could provide a bullet point summary of the key information that will change my mind?

          • Paul 2.1.1.1.1
            5 April 2015 at 10:47 am

            WTC7.
            I’ve never heard one of the people on this website who personally attack those who apply critical thinking to the events of 9/11 explain WTC7.
            Until they do, I remain sceptical to the official conspiracy theory about 9/11

            • TheContrarian 2.1.1.1.1.1
              5 April 2015 at 11:18 am

              What’s to explain?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.1.2
              5 April 2015 at 6:21 pm

              I’ve issued this challenge before and I will again: what, precisely, is wrong with the engineering calculations involved in the NIST WTC7 report?

              Just to be clear, I want to be shown the significant flaws in NIST’s computer modelling and calculations. Or stfu.

              • Paul …
                5 April 2015 at 7:51 pm

                The silencing of dissent.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  5 April 2015 at 8:05 pm

                  No, the challenge to do some maths instead of parroting drivel.

                • gsays …
                  5 April 2015 at 8:16 pm

                  hi paul,
                  the thing that strikes me is the abusive reaction that occurs when this subject comes up.
                  so far: deranged, paranoid fantasies, stfu, parroting drivel.

                  i am waiting to be accused of being right wing for daring to question the status quo version of events re wtc t7

                  • McFlock …
                    5 April 2015 at 8:44 pm

                    ten years ago people probably had a bit more tolerance. But since then no new evidence has been presented, and many lies have been debunked (no airplane debris around the pentagon, “within its own footprint”, “freefall speeds”, yadda yadda). In contrast, the official story still stands up.

                    So I for one am a bit bored with nutbars making a stupid nutbar hobby around the deaths of 3000 people. Oh, and if you’re worried about being called right wing, I’m worried that a legitimate critic of the US can be silenced by comparing them with people who think mini-nukes or nanothermite demolished any of the WTC buildings.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    5 April 2015 at 8:48 pm

                    It’s boredom. You all repeat the same long-debunked zombie arguments, and you haven’t produced a scrap of evidence in fourteen years, and not a single member of the conspiracy has come forward, and you all can’t even agree which tune to sing.

                    It’s like a multi-orchestra Ives collision, only not as melodious.

                • The Murphey …
                  5 April 2015 at 8:18 pm

                  Q. Who here knows the content of the 28 redacted pages of the report ?

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    5 April 2015 at 8:52 pm

                    NIST’s reports are in the public domain and contain no redacted pages, let alone 28. Please try and pay some attention.

                    • The Murphey …
                      5 April 2015 at 9:02 pm

                      Q. Why would you assume I was referring to a NIST report ?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      5 April 2015 at 9:11 pm

                      I couldn’t care less what you’re wanking on about. I issued a very specific challenge regarding NIST, and you failed to change the subject.

              • gsays …
                5 April 2015 at 8:07 pm

                hi oab,” I’ve issued this challenge before and I will again: what, precisely, is wrong with the engineering calculations involved in the NIST WTC7 report?”
                the wrong with the report is that there is no forensic/physical evidence at all, they are based on computer modelling.
                modelling based on input data you and i are not priveleged to know about.
                therefore you can not be shown the significant flaws.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  5 April 2015 at 8:35 pm

                  What you call “input data” is simply the initial state of the model. Which is, duh, in the model.

                  • Incognito …
                    5 April 2015 at 8:48 pm

                    It seems to me that you are conflating variables with parameters.

                  • Incognito …
                    5 April 2015 at 9:42 pm

                    @ One Anonymous Bloke at 8.57 pm [no Reply button!?]

                    I have no intention in ‘accepting your challenge’ and I have no idea what or whom I am “stalling”. It just seemed to me that you might not have the faintest idea of basic concepts of S & M.

                • Rawsharkosaurus …
                  5 April 2015 at 11:59 pm

                  “the wrong with the report is that there is no forensic/physical evidence at all, they are based on computer modelling.”

                  That sounds suspiciously similar to the rhetoric that climate science denialists use.

    • te reo putake 2.2
      5 April 2015 at 9:01 am

      Thanks for taking the time to post the link, Paul. Sure, it’s meaningless psychobabble, but after 13 and a half years without evidence, I guess there’s not much left for deniers to focus their hopes on.

      • Paul 2.2.1
        5 April 2015 at 11:24 am

        I agree no plausible evidence has been presented by the US govt to explain WTC7

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1.1
          5 April 2015 at 8:08 pm

          Apart from an extensive engineering report, that is. And hours of computer modelling, and forensic analysis, and sums.

          Which you don’t understand, a sad fact that is becoming more and more obvious. Christ, in the years of rote-learning drivel, you could have actually got a degree in civil engineering.

    • marty mars 2.3
      5 April 2015 at 10:05 am

      911 – a bit like christianity in the variation of beliefs – which 911 belief variant are you paul? If you aren’t sure which bit you are in to – check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

      But I’ll assume you are up to speed with most of them – do you think planes were involved? do you think Flight 93 was shot down? Do you think that Mossad and the CIA did it? Insider trading?

      I’m interested because it is pointless discussing this subject without knowing which variant a person believes and you obviously believe this is a worthy subject to discuss because you’ve put it up on OM.

  3. Skinny 3
    5 April 2015 at 8:16 am

    Paul Little should stop playing ‘Chicken Little.’

    Winston Peters had every right being upset that Corin Dann tried it on, by wanting to take a live interview with the Northland buy- election losers, Nationals candidate Mark Osborne and campaign manager Stephen Joyce first. After all who convincingly trounced National giving John Key and campaign ‘master stroker’ Joyce their first blood nose since National beat Labour all those years ago.

    I saw first hand what was what the following morning in Russell as I was there walking my dog and walking a hangover from the night before’s election party. Dann was up to no good trying to con Peters into a pre recorded interview, presumably so they could
    try thy ole ‘edit and mash number.’ Peters was far too aloof for that dirty trick and rightfully held his ground taking the interview live. However Dann still got his way in sorts by interviewing Joyce & co first and making Peters stand around in the rain waiting for the cross. When Dann finally did interview Peters he snarled and treated him with disrespect.

    What a nasty little National cheerleader Dann showed himself to be.

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11427934

    • RedBaronCV 3.1
      5 April 2015 at 8:39 am

      While the back end of the article had some useful comments – exactly what is the big oil benefit- the beginning was absolutely cringing.

      Yes Winston had every right to not tolerate the fawning over the losers but FFS to compare Northland to a woman who woke to find the wrong guy in bed with her? Wrong on so many levels -sexist, implying that they would have been better waking up to Osbourne , they had a hangover , etc. Demeaning to women, to men, the voters who voted..

      Maybe Paul needs to look at his own life if any of this was an acceptable metaphor.

      • weka 3.1.1
        5 April 2015 at 9:04 am

        +1 RB, on so many levels, and unnecessary to make the points.

      • Bill 3.1.2
        5 April 2015 at 10:23 am

        Yup. If people here wanted a non-pokey stick, sans finger pointing discussion on rape culture, then there was the spring-board right there – blaring sirens, flashing red lights and all.

        Oh well…. 🙁

        • weka 3.1.2.1
          5 April 2015 at 11:00 am

          This might be a better starting point. Luddite Journo on Rape Myths in NZ and the NZ media, using a breaking story about an All Black who has been arrested on sexual assault charges and how the media are covering this. Good analysis.

          In 2013, research from the specialist sexual violence sector looking at how the media report on sexual violence in Aotearoa showed some disturbing stuff: journalists do not understand the law and they do not interview experts, with no articles featuring commentary from specialist academics or researchers and just 8% featuring commentary from community experts.

          This means that our news is full of rape myths, because journalists are like everyone else – they grow up in our rape culture. Despite the importance of the role of the mainstream media in educating the public about sexual violence, the only compulsory reading for student journalists in New Zealand features just three sentences about sexual violence in a 453 page book, and they are not helpful for unlearning rape myths (my emphasis):

          “It is illegal to report the victims’ names in any sex crime; it can be unethical and untasteful to describe a sexual crime in graphic detail. It is particularly important to be cautious about taking sides in the reporting: with emotions running high, false complaints are often made regarding sexual offences. Both sides can be very believable in their differing accounts.”

          For the record, Police estimate 8% of reports about sexual violence they receive are false. It’s far more common for people to choose not to report to the Police – just one in ten survivors report. Both of these figures come from New Zealand Police, that bastion of feminist activism.

          http://thehandmirror.blogspot.co.nz/2015/04/telling-stories-about-rape.html

          (btw, I think a conversation about rape culture without people thinking there is stick poking going on is almost impossible, here at least. The reasons for that are a complex mix of people taking things personally to the exclusion of the politics, and low tolerance all round leading to not a lot of listening/effective communication)

          • tracey 3.1.2.1.1
            5 April 2015 at 11:15 am

            Thanks for the extract and link Weka.

          • Bill 3.1.2.1.2
            5 April 2015 at 2:04 pm

            btw, I think a conversation about rape culture without people thinking there is stick poking going on is almost impossible, here at least. The reasons for that are a complex mix of people taking things personally to the exclusion of the politics, and low tolerance all round leading to not a lot of listening/effective communication.

            If the ‘target’ was a neutral (ie, off-site) one, as opposed to ‘half’ the bloody commenters on a particular post, then both the perception of a pokey stick being used and actual pokey sticks being used would be greatly diminished, no? (shrug)*

            * really wish there was a thingy jig that produced a shrug. Anyway. (shrug)

            • weka 3.1.2.1.2.1
              5 April 2015 at 3:23 pm

              Yes, that’s true and certainly lessening such in your face approaches to discussion would help a lot.

              I think it’s also true that there are always going to be be people upset personally by the politics. And what do we do with people commenting who are perpetuating rape myths? Once responses to that start, it becomes personal and I don’t see any way around that presently (there’s also the history now, and whether people can get past that). The other unfortunate dynamic is that the conflict happens within groups that should otherwise be political allies (eg the left). I can’t see that changing much until there is greater acceptance within the left of its own issues around gender.

      • Skinny 3.1.3
        5 April 2015 at 5:27 pm

        +1 I don’t think he will have emerged from under the rock he has self inflicted himself to hide under by Tuesday. He will be a no show at work.

    • Incognito 3.2
      5 April 2015 at 10:03 am

      Paul Little is entitled to his opinion but his piece was boringly predictable and did not contain one single original thought or novel insight. Same for Rodney Hide’s piece. At least John Armstrong, John Roughan, and Fran O’Sullivan occasionally surprise me with a really nice angle or insight. There are some whose columns I almost never read, e.g. Mike Hosking’s.

      • RedBaronCV 3.2.1
        5 April 2015 at 6:09 pm

        Of course he is entitled to his opinion – “Northland was stupid to vote for Winston when they could have voted for NACT” but really – what a way to express it.
        Imagine how much offence would have been generated by comparing NACT to say a streetwalker (who no doubt is more honest and principaled anyway) .

  4. Draco T Bastard 4
    5 April 2015 at 9:38 am

    Compulsory voting, much like democracy, beats the alternatives

    For decades, compulsory voting has done what it was supposed to do: maintain high and socially even turnout levels that are the envy of the industrialised voluntary-voting world. Prior to its introduction at the federal level in 1924, turnout was hovering in the 50–60% range (of registered voters). Since then, it has remained steady for many decades at around 93%.

    Significantly better than ours.

    While Australia’s young are less inclined to vote than older cohorts, because of compulsory voting 83% of 18-25 year olds still turn out to vote. Compare this to Britain where only around 44% of young people vote, or Canada where the figure hovers at around 37 to 38% or, worse still, the US. There, in the recent midterm elections, only 22% of young people bothered to cast a ballot.

    IIRC, our young also don’t vote in droves.

    Many studies have indicated that government attention and spending are directly related to the size of electorate cohorts. Older people vote and so governments spend far more per capita on them than they do on the young. Governments are also a lot more responsive to the policy concerns of older voters.

    We see this here as governments continue to fail to do anything about bubbling house prices because it will upset the older voters who a) own houses and b) don’t want to see their paper wealth decrease.

    Libertarians like Finn think that the cost of losing their freedom to stay away on polling day is too high. But what about the real-life cost to freedom of being poor, homeless, unemployed and under-employed? In every advanced voluntary system the world over, the less likely you are to vote, the more likely you are to experience one, some, or all of these things.

    But in compulsory systems where voting is universal and socially even, government attention and spending is more evenly distributed. Simply put, there is less wealth inequality in compulsory systems.

    Definitely worth considering. I think it’s time that we went to compulsory voting in NZ.

    • Atiawa 4.1
      5 April 2015 at 10:34 am

      Agree +++ and compulsory unionism.

      • TheContrarian 4.1.1
        5 April 2015 at 6:07 pm

        Compulsory unionism violates the UN declaration of Human Rights as well as the NZ Bill of Rights.

        (Disclaimer – before anyone says otherwise I have no problem with unions and support unionisation)

        • McFlock 4.1.1.1
          5 April 2015 at 8:54 pm

          Even if that were true, there are a myriad ways around that, from closed shops to preventing freeloading on collective conditions.

          • TheContrarian 4.1.1.1.1
            5 April 2015 at 9:02 pm

            It is true. Article 20 of the UN declaration of human rights specifically outlines the freedom of association.

            • McFlock 4.1.1.1.1.1
              5 April 2015 at 10:23 pm

              Indeed.
              But one could argue that nobody would be forced to join a union for a specific job. After all, the tories think that working at a specific place is a choice, right? Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

          • lurgee 4.1.1.1.2
            5 April 2015 at 9:17 pm

            Surely, you could just ban freeloading on collective conditions?

            Anyone not in the union has to go through a negotiating process to achieve their Ts and Cs.

            And if they end up getting the same or better Ts and Cs than the union, then the union takes action.

            I thought there was a move in this direction in the final Clark administration. Whatever happened to it?

            • McFlock 4.1.1.1.2.1
              5 April 2015 at 10:25 pm

              too little, too late.

              I’ve heard that prior to the ECA the situation was not technically “compulsory” unionism. Still managed to get a unionised workforce, though.

    • adam 4.2
      5 April 2015 at 3:57 pm

      Disagree with compulsory voting.

      We pride ourselves on religious freedom in this country, and one way to support religious freedom, is to support the right not to vote on religious grounds. We have a system where by people exercise their citizen duty by enrolling to vote. And can simply not vote, without jumping through hoops.

      I also think we need to ask, rather than use force – why young people are not voting and do not want to vote. I inclined to believe they see through the corruption and hypocrisy of our politicians. Coupled with the fact, the corporations and the 1% are the ones welding power, and no vote or democratic outcome – will make a damn bit of difference with those worshippers of cupidity.

    • millsy 4.3
      5 April 2015 at 5:57 pm

      We dont need cumplsory voting, we just need decent candidates and policies.

    • The Murphey 4.4
      5 April 2015 at 8:23 pm

      Compulsory voting for a system which kills and maims and impoverishes …

      No thanks

      • Draco T Bastard 4.4.1
        6 April 2015 at 10:02 am

        Voting could change the system if more people voted. Not voting will certainly entrench it.

        IMO, the big difference between those who don’t support compulsory voting and those of us who do is a matter of perspective. They view voting as a right which people can choose to use or not while I view it as a responsibility that cannot, and should not, be avoided.

        We must all have a say in our governance so that our full wisdom is brought to bear rather than just the desires of the rich and elderly.

        • The Murphey 4.4.1.1
          6 April 2015 at 10:25 am

          Draco I understand where you’re coming from with this particular ‘compulsion’

          IMO making voting compulsory would not equate to systematic change in an of itself

          Making voting compulsory could lead to more people politicizing themselves which in turn could lead to grass roots level change through awareness but the established and entrenched will adjust as necessary to retain control the same way it has done for decades

          Compulsory voting is likely to lead to little more than higher invalid vote count and fines (assuming the Australian model of compulsion) as the only way the system knows how to ‘encourage’ people is through monetary penalty

          Using Northland as an example of where engagement was in higher numbers but look at what the catalysts were to achieving greater engagement

          The establishment is no longer for the people and is in dire need of replacement not greater involvement is propping it up

          • Draco T Bastard 4.4.1.1.1
            6 April 2015 at 11:18 am

            We have two ways to change the system:

            1. Voting for change
            2. Bloody revolution

            That’s it. There is no other way. You say that we need to change the system and yet you don’t want to use the first.

            • The Murphey 4.4.1.1.1.1
              6 April 2015 at 11:34 am

              The system(s) all of them are completely controlled

              Treating the electoral system in a vacuum will not alter where we are all headed

              Regrettably option two appears the higher chance of success which is hardly an endorsement for it

              The path is already decided

              • weka …
                6 April 2015 at 12:14 pm

                oh, good, we can all go back to our playstations and flatscreen teevees then.

                • The Murphey …
                  6 April 2015 at 12:29 pm

                  Hi Weka

                  There are many who have chosen the options of distraction and there are many who have chosen a multitude of other options

                  At some point in the timeline there will be a convergence as the many chosen options are dwindled into a few available options out of absolute necessity

                  It is once we arrive at that juncture of absolute necessity we will see what those few options actually are and how humanity individually and collectively responds

                  • weka …
                    6 April 2015 at 12:40 pm

                    Too late by then. My comment was more about people who think they know what the future is, or how things will play out. If there’s one thing we can know about the situation we are in, it’s that the ball is in the air and we don’t know where it’s going to land.

                    (shit, did I just use a sporting analogy).

                    • The Murphey …
                      6 April 2015 at 2:30 pm

                      It appears as if we have not hit rock bottom as a species yet which is disturbing and unsurprising at the same time

                      To me that is an indicator the juncture has not been reached so I would hope that it won’t be “too late” when it does come because as a species like with addicts it seems we will have to collectively ‘bottom out’ prior to reaching the road to healing

                      The ball is certainly in the air

                    • weka …
                      6 April 2015 at 3:25 pm

                      It’ll be too late in terms of climate change. We have a window, closing fast. Waiting for the crisis that will force people to change will be too late.

  5. ScottGN 5
    5 April 2015 at 9:41 am

    HuffPost Canada is reporting that Tom Mulcair has said that if the NDP wins the upcoming Federal election it will be Canada’s last under FPTP. He’s committed to MMP NZ-style.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/02/mulcair-ndp-proportional-representation_n_6407056.html

  6. North 6
    5 April 2015 at 9:46 am

    The sourness of the Paul Little article is very telling. A mark of the perennial, passive-aggressive media dissemination of the Crosby Textor construct narrative – “Key is gold !”. And its extension – “……ergo, all challengers are base”.

    Oh “Boo !” Paul Little…….were there the foundation for “John Key quipped…..” you and your mates’d be writing it up as the political howler of the new century. Some would say many of your PC’s templates need serious modification if not deletion. That ain’t gonna kill ya.

    Little’s sourness (not saved by cursory mention of Northland issues) reminds me of when Helen Clark appointed Peters foreign minister all those years ago – the Press Gallery in high dudgeon in the flavour of – “We simply will not tolerate this !!!”

  7. Pasupial 7
    5 April 2015 at 9:48 am

    7 days remaining until the scheduled return of the Rawshark 2.

  8. Philip Ferguson 8
    5 April 2015 at 10:09 am

    Interesting article and film about a group of workers in New York struggling on five (US) dollars an hour. They’re sandwich makers at a deli.

    Five dollars an hour in the land of the free: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/04/05/five-dollars-an-hour-in-the-land-of-the-free/

    Meanwhile, in Mexico, fruitpickers are taking on some of the world’s biggest and richest companies: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/mexican-farm-workers-strike/

    In the south of Ireland, 6,000 workers at one of the largest retail chains went on strike on Thursday against low-hours contracts, low pay, and for full recognition of their union by the retail company: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/04/03/6000-dunnes-stores-workers-strike-in-south-of-ireland/

    Here, the Cotton On distribution workers won a victory, fairly rare these days for the working class: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/workers-at-cotton-on-win-pay-and-teabreak-victory/

  10. Philip Ferguson 10
    5 April 2015 at 10:13 am

    Free Khalida Jarrar.

    Khalida Jarrar is one of the central leaders of the PFLP, a member of its politbureau.

    On April 2,dozens of soldiers of the Israeli occupation forced their way into her home in Ramallah and arrested her for “terrorist” involvement – the usual Israeli designation for anyone resisting the occupation.

    After holding her for a while at an Israeli detention centre in the West Bank, they moved her to a prison in Israel.

    Jarrar is particularly involved with the rights of Palestinian prisoners and the liberation of Palestinian women.

    Story at: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/04/05/free-khalida-jarrar/

  11. Philip Ferguson 11
    5 April 2015 at 10:26 am

    Re: NZ First becoming a “country party”.

    I think this is a natural constituency for them.

    Think about the sort of vote Social Credit had. Although many people who voted SC at their height are probably dead now and SC hasn’t existed as a mass force for 30 years or more, there will be plenty of people with some sort of memory of them. There was always a natural Social Credit constituency in rural areas and NZF could easily mop up whatever elements of it still exist.

    Whereas other parties – Alliance, ACT, Anderton’s Progressives, Mauri Pacific, Peters’ outfit – have come and gone (and I suspect the Maori Party will go too) – the two MMP-era parties that have a future, because they have a constituency, a stable socio-political base, are the Greens and NZF.

    NZF is to the left of Labour on economic policy and to the right of them on social issues. And there’s enough people like that, especially in the regions, to give them a couple of electorate seats and maybe 10% of the vote, possibly even get them back to 1996 levels (I think they got over 13% of the vote that year, I recall they had 17 MPs) as long as they have Winston and provided they manage the succession well. I think either Ron Marks or Shane Jones would do, to keep that base. I think the leader of NZF, for some time anyway, interestingly, will need to be Maori.

    One thing about NZF that is also often forgotten is just how big their core base of support is in the Maori seats. They’re the only party apart from Labour to have held all the Maori seats. Moreover, when they captured all the Maori seats, they also won the party vote in all of them but one. They did far, far better than the Maori Party at its height. While that support dropped away, Winston is not just popular among old National types who recall the days when National pursued Keynesian economics; he’s also really popular among Maori because he’s seen as a ‘Maori boy made good’ who sticks it up to the establishment.

  12. Penny Bright 12
    5 April 2015 at 12:20 pm

    So are the so-called ‘left’ parties now going to drop the ‘two ticks’ policy for the 2017 General Election?

    ie: Campaign hard and strong for the PARTY vote, but campaign strategically for the ELECTORATE vote, especially in pivotal seats?

    Given that ‘doing a Northland’ has proven to be rather spectacularly successful?

    ie: Vote strategically for the candidate that has the best chance of taking the seat off National, or National’s coalition allies?

    In my view, that doesn’t mean so-called ‘left’ political parties not standing electorate candidates in pivotal seats, but campaigning on the issues, for PARTY not ELECTORATE votes.

    The reason why I say ‘so-called left parties’ is because, in my view, that terminology became redundant after the 1984 – 87 Labour Government introduced the neo-liberal ‘Rogernomic$’ reforms.

    In my view – the line in the sand is ‘public majority’ vs ‘corporate minority’ and those who serve their interests….

    Penny Bright

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz

  13. Penny Bright 13
    5 April 2015 at 2:52 pm

    What I have found is a useful yardstick in deciding ‘who is the MAIN electoral enemy’ – as it were – is to check the ‘mood of the boardroom’ (BIG business CEOs) – find out who THEY would prefer to run NZ in the House – then do the opposite.

    Because, in my opinion, that’s how our NZ ‘democracy’ works – according to the ‘Golden Rule’.

    ie: Those who have the gold make the rules, and we get the government that the majority of BIG business wants us to have.

    Penny Bright

    • Clemgeopin 13.1
      5 April 2015 at 3:00 pm

      “check the ‘mood of the boardroom’ (BIG business CEOs) – find out who THEY would prefer to run NZ in the House”

      Good point, but HOW do we or the ordinary voters find out that info from the BB CEOs?

    • Incognito 13.2
      5 April 2015 at 4:01 pm

      I strongly disagree for two reasons:

      1) It is a counter-productive dichotomy to view politics as warfare between friends/allies versus enemies to produce “winners & losers”. This is 20th-century politics; it is time to invent and develop new paradigms;

      2) It runs counter to critical independent thinking and taking full ownership of one’s own choices.

      • TheContrarian 13.2.1
        5 April 2015 at 6:09 pm

        1) It is a counter-productive dichotomy to view politics as warfare between friends/allies versus enemies to produce “winners & losers”. This is 20th-century politics; it is time to invent and develop new paradigms;

        ^this

  14. te reo putake 14
    5 April 2015 at 3:16 pm

    Matthew Gardiner, the Northern Territory unionist who fought against ISIS has been arrested on return to Oz. He could be looking at a lengthy jail term for doing independently what Australia wants to train the Iraqi troops to do for themselves.

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/former-labor-party-president-matthew-gardiner-arrested-at-darwin-airport-20150405-1meqhx.html

    • adam 14.1
      5 April 2015 at 4:03 pm

      Thanks for the link te reo putake – Disgraceful from the the Australian Government.

      Up’s to Bill – he has said this would happen, many times over the last few months here on the standard.

      • weka 14.1.1
        5 April 2015 at 4:04 pm

        +1

      • Anne 14.1.2
        5 April 2015 at 6:51 pm

        Shockingly disgraceful.

        Look at the photo of Matthew Gardiner. An intelligent, compassionate and rational person who is on the same side as the Western powers. So, who is mad? The Australian law enforcers that’s who. Someone should arrest them and now?!!

        • exkiwiforces 14.1.2.1
          6 April 2015 at 12:13 am

          He has been release without begin charge, but AFP are still continuing with its enquiries in regards to his time spent of overseas.

  15. les 15
    5 April 2015 at 6:39 pm

    Canada beat NZ in the world sevens in Tokyo…..!shock and awe.

  16. marty mars 16
    5 April 2015 at 7:15 pm

    Whose fault? Our fault. Don’t read if you want to remain ignorant

    Hidden in an unknown corner of Inner Mongolia is a toxic, nightmarish lake created by our thirst for smartphones, consumer gadgets and green tech, discovers Tim Maughan…

    We reached the shore, and looked across the lake. I’d seen some photos before I left for Inner Mongolia, but nothing prepared me for the sight. It’s a truly alien environment, dystopian and horrifying. The thought that it is man-made depressed and terrified me, as did the realisation that this was the byproduct not just of the consumer electronics in my pocket, but also green technologies like wind turbines and electric cars that we get so smugly excited about in the West. Unsure of quite how to react, I take photos and shoot video on my cerium polished iPhone.

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth?ocid=global_future_rss

    • The Murphey 16.1
      5 April 2015 at 8:39 pm

      This example is precisely why I switch off when it comes to discussions and articles about ‘climate change’

      There are prerequisite activities not to mention systematic changes to the current ‘capitalist consumerist model’ which far precede any functionally useful discussions around ‘climate change’

      Until the prerequisites are being addressed and actions taken to radically alter the mode of operation such wastelands will continue to multiply and expand

      A sobering link

      Thanks MM

  17. millsy 17
    5 April 2015 at 7:35 pm

    Regardless of your views on Easter Sunday/Good Friday trading, you all have to admit, that it is stupid to forbid the selling of alcohol on Easter Sunday. This is sort of the stuff that happens in Saudi Arabia…

    • felix 17.1
      5 April 2015 at 8:07 pm

      Meh, I don’t know if it’s that bad to have a couple of holidays in NZ that aren’t entirely piss-focused.

    • gsays 17.2
      5 April 2015 at 8:30 pm

      hi millsy, not everyone would have to admit it is stupid to forbid sale of liquor on easter sunday.
      people who are made to give up their time to sell it for a start.

  18. rich the other 18
    5 April 2015 at 7:38 pm

    Global warming / climate change .
    Just finished watching Tony Robinson on prime , Birth of Britain .
    It seems about three hundred thousand years ago Britain was at least 5 degrees warmer than today , all sorts of animals roamed the country , lions , hippos etc etc .

    O’dear along came an ice age , followed by , you guessed it , global warming and of course the ice melted .
    Science has proved it’s about a 300 thousand year cycle , plenty of proof this happened .
    One thing for sure global warming at the time wasn’t man made .

    • Paul 18.1
      5 April 2015 at 7:49 pm

      zzzzzzzzzzzzz

    • Anne 18.2
      5 April 2015 at 8:25 pm

      Ignorant rto. Somebody said it happened 300,000 years ago. Is he a Climate change denier? They’re very good at making things up. Even so there are other reasons why it might have happened 300,000 years ago. Today it is largely due to a rapid increase in CO2 output caused by humankind. Hope you have grandkids. Serve you right if they die before their allotted time. More than likely they will view people like yourself with utter contempt for being so stupid (mind you most deniers can’t help that) and blind and landing them and their kids in such a terrible mess.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 18.3
      5 April 2015 at 8:41 pm

      I watched it too, RtO. You’re almost there. Well done! Everyone give RtO a little golf clap for being so brave as to admit the recent climate change exists.

      The last little baby step you need, RtO, is to discover the timescale of previous climate change events, and compare that with the timescale of this one. Google “snowball earth” if you really want to learn something.

      Then for good measure, compare that with the timescale of the climate change in the Anthropocene. And the trend in the atmospheric carbon isotope ratio.

      Then you can reflect on the fact that Tony Robinson can be sure of his facts because Climatology, which you claim is a hoax.

      And then you can imagine my contempt and derision.

  19. Penny Bright 19
    5 April 2015 at 8:13 pm

    For the public record – I absolutely support architects and engineers for 9/11 truth, in their quest for an independent inquiry.

    http://www.ae911truth.org

    As someone who has some understanding of metal – I know that the heat generated from burning airplane fuel (kerosene) cannot possibly melt steel, and cause the Twin Towers to collapse in their own footprint at free fall speed.

    You have GOT to be kidding.

    Penny Bright

    Advanced Trade
    Sheetmetal Engineering

    • One Anonymous Bloke 19.1
      5 April 2015 at 8:43 pm

      Aviation fuel was the only material burning was it, your Madness?

      • The Murphey 19.1.1
        5 April 2015 at 8:48 pm

        Q. Does it make you feel more of a man when you insult others ?

        • Paul 19.1.1.1
          5 April 2015 at 9:08 pm

          You are not allowed to question 9/11 on this site.
          Free thinking is banned on this subject.
          Personal insults are the substitute for critical thinking and discussion.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 19.1.1.1.1
            5 April 2015 at 9:16 pm

            Perhaps the fact that your modus operandum is to insult people’s intelligence by raising long-dead zombie arguments rather than admitting you’ve got nothing substantive to say, has something to do with the reaction you get.

            Sums. Hard work. NIST report. Fourteen years of this inept flailing.

            • The Murphey 19.1.1.1.1.1
              5 April 2015 at 9:34 pm

              Yet you keep coming back with the same responses as if the entire process and circumstances have been transparent and above board

              The ineptitude you are shrieking about is not the work of commentators such as Paul

              Inept is nothing but a soothing synonym for corrupt

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                5 April 2015 at 9:41 pm

                The inept flailing is all yours. It’s so much easier to allege corruption than do sums.

                • The Murphey …
                  5 April 2015 at 11:31 pm

                  Corruption outs itself and has nothing to do with ‘sums’

                  • McFlock …
                    5 April 2015 at 11:37 pm

                    That’s what I tried to explain to the auditors, but they wouldn’t listen… /sarc

                    Seriously, are you arguing that the NIST report is wrong even if all its sums are correct? That the sums are correct, but that the conclusions the sums lead to are incorrect?

                    • ropata …
                      6 April 2015 at 12:34 am

                      But Penny’s got a sheetmetal trade cert. That makes her practically a professor of materials engineering, ya know.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      6 April 2015 at 5:32 am

                      McFlock, don’t forget that science is in a permanent state of wibbly wobbly, and changes all the time. That includes Maths, even though it’s an art.

                    • The Murphey …
                      6 April 2015 at 10:33 am

                      I have not been referring to a NIST report and made that clear towards the top end of open mike

                      Lies fraud and corruption are deeply ingrained and yet people still want to assert there is ‘truth’ in what they believe

                    • McFlock …
                      6 April 2015 at 1:25 pm

                      So, muphrey, when you wrote”Q. Who here knows the content of the 28 redacted pages of the report ?” in a subthread specifically about the NIST report, your reference to “the report” was a reference to a random one of the millions of other reports published in human history rather than the report that was the topic of discussion?

                      Thanks for your contribution. One day you might avoid being a waste of column-space.

          • marty mars 19.1.1.1.2
            5 April 2015 at 9:33 pm

            “You are not allowed to question 9/11 on this site.
            Free thinking is banned on this subject.”

            Bullshit paul The Standard team does no such thing – that is up there with pete george’s rubbish – in fact you posted on it today didn’t you.

            • lprent 19.1.1.1.2.1
              6 April 2015 at 12:55 am

              For me, it feels a bit like when I get climate deniers on here.

              When I notice it, I tend to shift from the acerbic to the outright sarcastic in my comments to them. When I have time, I take a dissection tool to whatever the fools arguments are. Basically I tear at their knowledge and their egos. Mostly because having done some training around the science, fantasists on the subject just piss me off. Since I’m not a climate scientist, I don’t need to be polite and don’t really feel constrained by their usual restraint when dealing with scientific illiterates.

              This is also known as free thinking and (relatively) free speech. For me it is pleasant fun and robust debate.

              The same applies to 9/11, chemtrails, vaccinations conspiracies, fluoridation and a whole pile of other theories. I generally ignore most of those. But so far I haven’t seen much evidence that convinces me that there is anything substantive on them. But they still get allowed, with the usual extremely skeptical audience.

              As a moderator, about the only I usually notice ‘free-tinker’ behaviour if they start astroturfing comments, doing the diversion off topic in other posts that aren’t on those topics, making assertions of fact without linking or explaining, or when they start doing the whine that people disagree with them and are unpleasant in how they point that out. With a subtext that free speech should be allowed for them, but not for others. These are all behaviours that aren’t permitted to exist on the site to any large extent. I usually point them to policy, and if it keeps repeating, I escalate from warnings to bans.

              But if it is just robust debate, I just keep an eye on them to see if anything is going over the line.

    • Paul 19.2
      5 April 2015 at 9:39 pm

      +100 Penny
      An independent enquiry would shed some light on the true story behind 9/11

  20. John Shears 20
    5 April 2015 at 9:49 pm

    Have just read this very interesting article by Doug Edmeades in the nzfarmer March 16. page 7 and thought some of you might like to have a look.

    Titled ‘Science, one voice among many’ it is quite thought provoking in my opinion.
    http://tinyurl.com/q7phpkm

    • felix 20.1
      5 April 2015 at 10:03 pm

      It’s behind a wall. Could you summarise?

    • ropata 20.2
      6 April 2015 at 12:45 am

      Why not title it “Opinions are like arseholes, we all have one”
      Or “Farmers: entitled arseholes who deny facts”

      Farmers are happy with science when it makes them some coin, but it’s rude to mention the cost of their filthy emissions.

  21. exkiwiforces 21
    6 April 2015 at 12:15 am

    He has been release without begin charge, but AFP are still continuing with its enquiries in regards to his time spent of overseas.

  22. saveNZ 22
    6 April 2015 at 8:30 am

    Gosh have you seen this, we know that the Nats have infiltrated all the public services and filled them at taxpayers expense with flunkies but still… astonishing the level of control!

    Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy was advised to ignore calls and don’t answer the phone following concerns raised over foreign drivers.

    Last month, the Otago Daily Times requested an interview with the commissioner after publishing a story on a Dunedin man who snatched keys from a foreign driver.

    Following her refusal to front, the ODT filed an Official Information Act (OIA) request for all documents received or sent by the commissioner on the topic.

    The first email, from an undisclosed employee of the Human Rights Commission immediately following the OIA request, advised the commissioner to “ignore calls and don’t answer phone”.

    “Media are after you for comment on foreign drivers getting keys taken off them … we really don’t want to get into this … Police have had their say, PM is all over it etc etc so we are best to leave it at this.”

    A follow-up email to the commissioner said: “I want to keep comments from me so that you are not seen to be commenting on this issue at all … Right now we’ve had no complaints and it’s an operational policing issue that needs to be sorted out at that level immediately, it is also anecdotal with a lot of media hype.”

    My God maybe good news after all, is MSM stepping up with real news???

    • weka 22.1
      6 April 2015 at 1:52 pm

      http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/338243/commissioner-quiet

      I agree with the final bit in that link (it’s not a race relations issue). But the emails seem weird. Pity the ODT didn’t report on that more fully. I do wonder if it speaks more to Devoy’s um lack of experience in the job and staffers trying to save themselves some bother, than Ministerial interference. Isn’t the HRC one of the depts getting cut?