Open mike 05/05/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 5th, 2015 - 290 comments
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290 comments on “Open mike 05/05/2015 ”

    • shame about his timing – as voter registration has closed..

      ..maybe a week or so ago..?

      • felix 1.1.1

        Really? Damn, I was thinking he’d played a pretty sharp long game.

      • Happily, voter registration is up, and significantly so in the teenage/early twenties segment. That’s a good sign for the left. Hopefully Brand and the host of other celebs who have endorsed Labour can have a positive effect.

        • alwyn

          He sounds a very suitable person to be a Labour Party supporting “celebrity”.
          I didn’t know anything about him but the first hit google gave when I entered “Who is Russell Brand” was

          Nice fellow by the sound of things.
          Why would anyone take a person like this seriously?
          Perhaps there is another one, but it seems to be the right one.

          • Murray Rawshark

            That’s funny. I did exactly the same thing and got

            I suspect the personalised aspect of Google must have noted that you look up gossip rags a lot more than I do.

            • alwyn

              So it does.
              I looked at it a bit more closely and discovered I had somehow been switched to using Bing, not Google. God knows why it was picking up Bing. With quotes around the phrase Bing gives Wiki. Without the quotes it gives the link I put in.
              Reading through the Wiki article it would appear that he is actually even more of a prick than the Daily Mail article suggests.
              Would anyone really want Brand as a supporter? It would be a bit like having Kim DotCom as your promoter. There lies disaster, as Hone discovered.

              • felix

                It’s nice that you only know one thing about Mr Brand as it makes it so much easier for you to form an opinion of him.

                But would you mind awfully not being such a patronising fuckwit when you discuss him with people who have a bit more info to draw upon than one Daily Mail article?

                Thanks ever so much.

                ps what do you know about the president of the National Party?

                • alwyn

                  If you actually read the comment you are replying to you would find that I now know quite a lot more about him.
                  My comment was that that item from the Daily Mail was the very first thing on the list. and that I had also read other things about what appears to be a quite horrible person.
                  Do you actually think he is someone to take advice and guidance from? One might as well follow the teachings of Charles Manson.

                  What has the President of the National Party got to do with anything? Are you that person? I haven’t the faintest idea who the President is and I couldn’t care less. Sorry.

                  • felix

                    Oh, you’ve read a wikipedia page AND a Daily Mail article?

                    In that case your attempt to link the Labour Party with Charles Manson seems totally reasonable 🙄

                    The president of the National Party is Peter Goodfellow.

                    Tell me, did you find the stuff about psychological cruelty and manipulation particularly disturbing?

          • Paul

            The Daily Mail is not a credible source.
            You should know that.

            • alwyn

              The people who give out newspaper awards in the UK don’t seem to agree with you.
              According to the Wiki article on the paper
              “The Daily Mail has been awarded the National Newspaper of the Year in 1995, 1996, 1998, 2001, 2003 and 2012 by the British Press Awards[58]”.
              Given the number of National papers in Britain that seems to be a reasonable record.

              • Paul

                That says more about who gives out the Awards than the Mail’s credibility.
                It is quite simply a fascist tabloid rag.

                • alwyn

                  Possibly. The Press awards do seem to let their standards drop a bit sometimes.
                  During the same 20 year period they also gave the national newspaper award 5 times to that dreadful tabloid “The Guardian”.

              • Molly

                Alwyn. I was living in the UK when I first heard of Russell Brand, and watched a couple of interviews and skits that he did. Thought his views on women were archaic and misogynistic, and didn’t enjoy his style of humour.

                Usually I just leave it at – I don’t like their comedy, but in his case, I thought he was a complete prat. I kept that steadfast opinion until someone put a link to his Jeremy Paxman interview on voting. Very clear on his reasoning.

                Since then, I have let go of previous opinions as I watch him on the Trews. He does refer to his weaknesses and previous addictions (without excusing them). His current views on women and personal relationships may surprise you.

                The point is: unless a person is static – one Google search – may not be the answer to finding out about their current viewpoints and values. You may have to get dirty and watch a few episodes of the Trews.

      • Bearded Git 1.1.3

        @philip More people are registered to vote in the UK than ever before. Read the online article on Russell Brand’s change of heart in the Guardian today.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2

      How long will it take to go from the Russell Brand who urged people not to vote to the Right Honorable Russell Brand, MP for Hackney South?

      • higherstandard 1.2.1

        To quote John Lydon ..Russel Brand is a bumhole

        • weka

          which is pretty funny when you think about it. Young ‘un vs oldie, why can’t we all just get along?

          Plus what OAB said, the move from young radical to old conservative is inevitable for many.

  1. Paul 2

    I rewrote the Herald’s article for them.

    Government gives more money to developers.
    House prices go up.
    Go figure.

    • Rosie 2.1

      Yes, this was on the news last night. Our Government’s way of dealing with the housing crisis, which they don’t believe exists anyway, is to relax resource consent rules via the mechanism of the Special Housing Areas Accord and developers are laughing all the way to the bank. I understand Hobsonville falls under the SHA Accord.

      Don’t you think this reeks of cabinet club palm greasing???

      There’s quite a few councils around the country that have signed up to this accord, Wellington is one of them.

      On the development where I live things are fishy enough as it without the addition of the SHA Accord. Our area has been voted into the SHA by the WCC. Already we have 3 areas of high density housing either in the building or planning stages – all have received consent.

      It’s nothing to do with affordable housing. In one of the high density areas the developer is offering a two bed + study for $485K. Last year they were advertising them for $465K. They jumped up 20K in less than 12 months. For that you get 124 square metres (inc internal access garage)of housing on 180 square metres of land.

      This is in area that is quite a drive away from the nearest amenities. There are no tress, no gardens and no recreation areas except at the furtherest corner of the development which already has 500 houses.

      There is something very dodgy going on with the council and it relationship with the developer and it’s proving very hard to get to the bottom of. I’ve been trying since January.

      • Tracey 2.1.1

        “Hobsonville falls under the SHA Accord.”

        Yes, it had 11 affordable homes?

  2. Tony P 3

    This is brilliant. John Oliver on standardised testing and the evil that is Pearson’s.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1


      The profit motive behind National Party education policy: attacking children for money. Now, children, let’s all read section 48 of the Crimes Act together.

    • miravox 3.2

      What a shambles.

      More on the malign influence of competitive schooling and private sector involvement today from the OECD – Sweden “free schools” a 20-year experiment that has been slammed by the OECD

      Reviewing the best comparative evidence, the OECD describes “a decade of declining … performance”. Scores for reading, maths and science are all on the slide, and overall the Nordic state has declined from “around average” to “significantly below average” in the global league table of learning, a bigger drop than any other country has seen…

      The OECD suggests that increasing the attractiveness of the teaching profession, improving pedagogical leadership and investing in professional development might be more fruitful avenues to pursue.

      Not that this report will sway the NActs, with David Seymour “quietly confident” that the government will listen to his lobbying for more charter schools to open next year.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 3.2.1

        The only sensible answer to these attacks is to ensure that the investors lose their shirts every single time they buy more legislation from the National Party.

        • miravox

          and take a swag of cash back every time they fail to meet their KPIs instead of handing them more cash to fix the problem they created… or we could continue with your sensible answer and have people who have no profit motive involved in ensuring provision, evaluation and continuous improvement of schooling.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Once we are back up there with international best practice we can start thinking about how to improve upon it.

    • ianmac 3.3

      Yes Tony. I watched John Oliver last night and was about to write about it here. Snap. Watch the industry that has grown out of selling the testing materials. And the fact that none of the processes and none of the people running the show are held accountable.
      There are some large areas in the USA where the kids teachers and parents are refusing to be tested. Brave people!

  3. b waghorn 4

    This is wrong and it has to stop I’m sure Clarke and Bolger are still making good money. This is the sort of thing that stops people voting.

  4. Tautoko Mangō Mata 5

    Excellent investigative journalism from the Intercept journalist, Ryan Devereaux:
    The story of the missing Mexican students

    and the truth about the disproportionate action taken by Israel in Gaza f.rom the Israeli Group,Breaking the Silence

  5. weka 6

    The report released by Massey University this week shows that dairy intensification over the last 20 years has seen waterways become heavily polluted, greenhouse gas emissions increase, and biodiversity loss, among other negative impacts, and argues that the cost of cleaning up the environment may be higher than the economic benefit from dairy exports.

      • weka 6.1.1

        The paper calculated externalities – costs to the community in the form of lost recreation opportunities and clean-up costs. These are costs that are borne by society rather than industry, Dr Joy says.

        It revealed that, for the worst case scenario, the costs to society of dairy farming are approximately equal to the export revenue and gross domestic product (GDP).

        “In other words, the industry is a zero-sum gain for New Zealand if the costs are included,” Dr Joy says. “These results will not be welcomed by many and are a wake-up call for the industry that can’t be ignored.”

        (my emphasis).

        • jenny kirk

          There are a couple of people up here in the north, Weka – trying to show the local authorities that there are different ways of dealing with this problem. Unfortunately the local authorities don’t want to know.

          One of the people is a dairy farmer who has changed his methods of farming to improve the quality of the waterways near his place, the other goes out taking photos and documenting the damage being caused by farm animals in local waterways. Maori TV has run a couple of stories about this.

          I guess that one of these days soon someone in authority will finally wake up !

          • weka

            Good to hear about the locals. I think we’re close to a tipping point, but the change will still happen too slowly because the main power holders want money and have been promised money. The good news is that enough farmers are doing the right things, so that if the authorities get on board we should be able to transition without having to invent new ways of doing things.

            • marty mars

              I hope we can invent new ways of doing the old ways. “Walking backwards into the future” It is an interesting angle – Māori traditionally lived this and to my mind Greer is saying large aspects of the same thing. It seems self evident to me but I realise not everyone is of the same mind. Found this good article on the subject

              • Murray Rawshark

                Walking backwards is the only way we get into the future. We can only see the past. I love that saying.

          • tc

            I’ve seen a few country calendars where dairy farmers adopting a sustainable approach got a better return, less outlays and diversified income as chooks helped recover pasture.

        • ianmac

          Weka highlighted this succinct piece that should be in everyone’s mind.

          “It revealed that, for the worst case scenario, the costs to society of dairy farming are approximately equal to the export revenue and gross domestic product (GDP)

          Add to that the fact that dairying gets free water by millions of litres.

          • Tracey

            but the MONEY ianmac… the MONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

            • weka

              Yeah, but who is getting the money? If there is no benefit to NZ economically, and there are huge downsides environmentally, who is actually gaining from this? Is it just the farmers? How many are family farms and how many are corporate owned? Or overseas owned? Is there money going elsewhere (eg irrigation companies), and who are those people?

    • Paul 6.2

      ‘Cowspiracy: The Sustainability Secret is a groundbreaking feature-length environmental documentary following intrepid filmmaker Kip Andersen as he uncovers the most destructive industry facing the planet today – and investigates why the world’s leading environmental organizations are too afraid to talk about it.

      Animal agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation, water consumption and pollution, is responsible for more greenhouse gases than the transportation industry, and is a primary driver of rainforest destruction, species extinction, habitat loss, topsoil erosion, ocean “dead zones,” and virtually every other environmental ill. Yet it goes on, almost entirely unchallenged.’

      • weka 6.2.1

        There’s nothing wrong with dairy farming, it’s how we’re doing it. Cowspiracy is a fundamentalist vegan film that doesn’t support its assertions very well. It also seems to be comparing industrial stock farming with industrial agriculture and deciding that industrial agriculture is best. Both are highly polluting and destroy ecologies. Swapping one for the other out of ideological concerns just creates different problems, what we need to do instead is make all farming sustainable and regenerative.

        I linked to this review of the film the other day, plus some snippets,

        Responding to a polemic that plays as fast and loose with facts as this film could easily devolve into a line by line response, which would be even more boring to read than it would be to write. Instead, I’ll focus on a few of the main topics, beginning with how cows drink, burp, fart, and most of all poop, which – not to brag – I have some experience with.

        Methane is a more vexed question, since cows indisputably belch and fart. In the film Anderson implies that cows are the main source of methane and that reducing their numbers is the fastest way to reverse global warming. After too much time poking around in search of definitive numbers on methane emissions, I decided to use those provided on a NASA website, even though a number of reputable sources arrive at different conclusions, particularly concerning the amount of methane released by wetlands, listed at 22% in the data I am quoting. By these numbers, ruminant livestock directly account for 16% of global methane emissions, and the (mis)management of all livestock manure accounts for another 5%. Human sewage treatment is 5%, biomass burning is 8%, fossil fuels production is 19%, and, surprisingly, rice cultivation is 12%. Various other manmade and natural sources fill out the remainder. While 21% of total methane is certainly significant, the idea that the elimination of livestock would clearly lead to a reversal of global warming trends is both an overstatement and an oversimplification, without getting into matters of methane’s half-life relative to carbon’s.

        The great weakness of Cowspiracy, other than its title, is its single minded determination to prove that veganism is the only reasonable approach to feeding people, a proof it pursues without regard for facts or nuance. That’s not to say it’s worthless, for there are ideas for several good films within it. I would love to watch a truly investigative examination of any links between the industrial agriculture sector and large environmental non-profits, rather than one that infers connections from the vague responses of uncomfortable PR people. A devastating documentary could be made about the insanity of beef and dairy production in California, and I am all for consumers voting against them and other parts of the industrial food system with their dietary choices. I even think a fair examination of the ways small farms are not inherently better for land and livestock would be wonderful. Instead of any of these there is a failed effort to prove that one lifestyle choice can solve every environmental and agricultural problem.

        This failure is not just a result of misleading and erroneous data, but even more so of superficiality. Though I watched carefully and took copious notes, I do not have a clear idea what Anderson’s vegan world would look like. Would excess land be converted to wilderness? Should the hills and fields of my farm return to forest and scrub like so much of the nearby land that used to be grass? Why is a monoculture of wheat preferable to a polyculture of pasture? Should we humans be connected to and reliant on the land around us and should these connections take different forms in response to local conditions? Yesterday, while out hunting turkey, I came across the remains of a deer, one of ten or so my brother and I have found this year. All of them starved or froze to death in the clutches of last winter. Now they are piles of mossy bones marking where living things curled up and never stood again. Why is this preferable to raising cows as I do, particularly when there’s room here for both?

        • phillip ure

          you feel the need to present the animal-farmer/hunter/kill-for-thrills crowd p.o.v. again..?

          ..and using the same link..?..again..?

 that really all ya got..?

          ..all ya could find..?

          ..and let me test my psychic-powers here..

          ..i’m guessing you still haven’t looked at what you so stridently attack/oppose..

          • DoublePlusGood

            So you address none of his points, and none of the points of what he linked to. 0/10

            • phillip ure

              what points..?

              ..this one..?

              “..Yesterday, while out hunting turkey..”

              as i said..the kill-for-thrills p.o.v…

              ..xcuse me if i ignore that..

              ..what’s to fucken ‘address’..?

            • weka

              “So you address none of his points, and none of the points of what he linked to. 0/10”

              Good spotting. We went through this the other day. Phil promotes the film, claims to have watched it right through, and yet can’t address any of the points raised about it, and instead resorts to ad hominems and diversions.

              • weka..hasn’t looked at film..

                ..yet/but for the second day now..spews serial rubbish..attacking it..

                ..using her big-weapon..of a negative review of the film by a kill-for-thrills animal-exploiter…

                ..and repeats same vegan-hating crap she always pushes..

       must be a day ending a ‘y’…

                ..mind you – that is yr pattern

                ..serial opinions on things you know s.f.a. about..

                ..(this attacking a film/ideas you haven’t even looked at..

                ,.being just the most recent

                • weka

                  No, but I did do some research and posted some thoughts, which is far more than can be said for you. I don’t hate vegans, veganism is a great choice for those that it works for. I am however highly critical of fundamentalist views like yours.

                • Tracey





                  The end

        • Paul

          Have you seen the film?

          • weka

            No. I decided not to watch it after reading the review, and seeing phil’s complete an utter inability to answer the questions I raised (assuming he had actually watched it, which I am starting to doubt).

            Have you seen it?

    • Tracey 6.3

      but all those mum and dad farmers have done so well…

      Imagine if we had polluted waterways AND not alot of the benefit from taxes cos so many farms are now foreign owned with profit going offshore.

    • Murray Rawshark 6.4

      It’s all profit for the bankers. They lend the money to intensify dairy, then lend the money to clean up the mess. They never lose.

  6. Paul 7

    Greg O’Connor needs to migrate to America.

    ‘Police Association president Greg O’Connor says the time is approaching when all frontline police will need to be armed.’

    • weka 7.1

      So the unarmed police shoot someone who was aiming a gun at them, presumably by assessing the situation and getting their guns out, and O’Connor thinks this is a reason to arm the police? He’s not great on logic is he.

      • felix 7.1.1

        Greg has never come across a situation that couldn’t be improved by arming the police.

        I seriously wonder who he’s really working for.

        • Rosie

          Exactly felix. He just loves those guns! He’s been going on about arming Police for yonks.

          The Police Association – the most anti social union you’ll ever come across.

          • Tracey

            Without a thought for the escalation it causes and the research that shows immense damage, including to police offices (who, as is pointed out above, are effectively already able to access arms pretty easily)

          • Murray Rawshark

            The Taxpayers’ Union is about equal.

        • Draco T Bastard

          The military-industrial complex?

          Considering the number of deaths in the US by the police you can be assured that he isn’t working for the people of NZ.

          • felix

            It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he had some sort of funding from weapons manufacturers or their lobby group the NRA.

      • Tracey 7.1.2

        THIS ^^^^^^^

    • adam 7.2

      Is it just me – or have we seen more people get killed by police in this country, whilst Mr O’Connor has been pushing for guns?

      Than the period before the police became surreptitiously armed?

      Because I’m sorry, our police have become militarised, and are effectively armed – it has all happened in the past 30 odd years. And I think I’m not alone, in feeling less safe when police are around – than I was 30 years ago.

      And whilst we are not the USA, I think we could very well become more like it – with a police force that is armed.

      • tc 7.2.1

        Like we need to be arming police given the ugly culture that has been on display from within the police force.

        I recall a mate saying the waiting list to join armed defender squads is a very very long one.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.2.2

        And whilst we are not the USA, I think we could very well become more like it – with a police force that is armed.

        The RWNJs do seem to have a liking for authority to be well armed and for the people to live in fear of them. They don’t seem to understand that such a society ends up with the RWNJs becoming a head shorter.

  7. Tautoko Mangō Mata 8

    This is the “transparency” provided for US Senators who are to vote on fast tracking the TPPA.

    “Only members of the House and Senate are currently allowed to view the text of the deal, and even they are forbidden from discussing what it contains. As a new report from Politico published Monday details, “If you’re a member who wants to read the text, you’ve got to go to a room in the basement of the Capitol Visitor Center and be handed it one section at a time, watched over as you read, and forced to hand over any notes you make before leaving.

    As for the public, a few unauthorized leaks of the text have previewed a deal that would “dramatically expand the power of corporations to use closed-door tribunals to challenge—and supersede—domestic laws, including environmental, labor, and public health, and other protections.”

    Show us the TPPA text, Tim Groser, and convince us that it is worth signing.

  8. rawshark-yeshe 9

    Posted this late last night on OM .. posting again for those interested who might have missed it ….

    TVOne News tonight … Northland becomes a Chinese tourist paradise .. 1700-1900 visitors a week, and all run by CEO Mike Sabin. What could possibly go wrong. Yuk.

    • Tiger Mountain 9.1

      Karikari peninsula is my home so know about this one alright;
      this is a runaway train of a development on an relatively new fragile peninsula, sewerage, trash, environmental impact have not even been looked at yet

      the local council is full of good ol’ boy tory cronies and totally unable to cope strategically or practically with such a huge development, all the agencies need to be involved in what should be a positive Far North job creator

      eco tourism, cultural tourism, involvement of local SMEs will not happen unless central government grabs CRED by the balls and tells them what regional development means, the local schools could be teaching Chinese languages and be integrated into the development but this is highly unlikely due to the Nats crony model and CREDs record of running ‘closed eco system’ resorts where all workers will be Chinese imports and the profits apart from a little local earthworks and construction will go offshore

      With resigned MP Sabin filling in a year as Pepper Carrington CEO till he possibly acquires an ankle braclet the owners have not demonstrated much empathy for local concerns, the Ngati Kahu runanga committee from local Haitetaimairangai marae has attempted to have been swayed with virtually unlimited air travel and large payments going to several prominent local Māori. Many locals staked their mana on Carrington MkI for jobs that did not eventuate and have learnt their lesson.

      • rawshark-yeshe 9.1.1

        This makes me so angry. We are being sold out grain of sand by grain of sand by bribery and graft, sadly the natural Chinese business way.

        Please keep posting on any local news as it comes.

      • Tracey 9.1.2

        and enough money to fund his expensive defence team?

        • rawshark-yeshe

          I wonder if CRED know ? Murray Rawshark sent them an email a while back when the news of his appointment was first reported. Face is everything for Chinese businessmen and while some crimes are quite acceptable, this kind of ‘private family matters’ is not. My hunch is they do not know — why would they risk so much ?

          • Tiger Mountain

            or do not care at this stage, given plausible deniability with a strong suppression order for a “prominent New Zealander”, possibly just arrogance, the local “guy” that was recommended by the Nat contact (Mayor Carter?) gets taken on, end of story

            my contacts tell me the management out here they have been meeting with every few weeks so far have no understanding of Māori structures, tribes, rohē, hapu, whanau etc and where decision making power resides, which explains why substantial bucks have been given to two runanga members (previously good advocates), but I don’t want to delve into that too much

            previous Far North developers (like Chris Hook, Crystal Waters, Cable Bay ’05) have thought buying out a ‘key’ person solved their problems, only to find the collective opposition won through in the end

          • Tracey

            you mean like the Chinese businessman who assaulted his partner and mother in law, and now his business hasn’t suffered?

      • Murray Rawshark 9.1.3

        I heard a few years back that the flash gold course let locals play for free. Seemed buggerall to me as compensation for making a mess of a beautiful peninsula.

        • Tiger Mountain

          nah, never happened, there was a cheap rate one year but it was made clear that the dress standard of the few that gave it a try was not suitable for after golf drinkies at the resort so it was canned

          after locals had been conned into allowing a non notifiable consent and bought off with the false promise of employment they were forgotten about, no career paths or training just seasonal housekeeping/hospitality jobs with imported managers

          there will be some push back on this one from people that got burnt once, even perhaps from the absentee owners with gin palaces as the scale has the potential to be an ecological wipeout for Karikari Peninsula whose sewerage system is maxed out at xmas anyway

          the FNDC is not insisting on jobs for locals they just want the one off development contributions and kick backs for rolling over the original consent but the runanga committee is opposing that at this stage, CRED have put up 2 mill for travel and payments for the committee members going to China

  9. The Chairman 10

    The Government is laying out the red carpet for the two-day forum, from which the media is barred.

    More than 70 Australasian managers of global companies and 30 bosses of Kiwi companies are in Wellington on Tuesday and Wednesday for the New Zealand Foreign Investor Dialogue.


    • tc 10.1

      Give us a shopping list of what else you want tipped in your favour and we’ll get right onto it.

    • rawshark-yeshe 10.2

      do you think we are ‘sponsoring’ it with travel, accomms etc ??

      • The Chairman 10.2.1

        With the amount of perks we’ve been subsidizing, I wouldn’t be surprised.

    • Tracey 10.3

      it’s a logical extension of how TPP is operating. The “people” can’t be trusted to know what is best for the top 1%, which is true if you think about it.

      • The Chairman 10.3.1

        The truth is the media are the fourth estate, thus vital to our democracy.

        Therefore, barring the media is undermining our democratic process.

        We can’t hold them to account when we’ve been barred from partaking .

        • Tracey

          Agree entirely… Remember when one of the major memes of the Right was Clark was so angry she thought she knew what was best for everyone else? Major projection methinks.

          • The Chairman

            Wonder if the guardians of our democracy will be monitoring the event?

  10. jenny kirk 11

    And here is something else which I find worrying. Anyone else ?

    Warning in today’s Herald that Auckland property prices could plunge. At the same time there’s another story about dairying prices likely to go down further. Are we on the verge of some sort of financial collapse? How likely is this ? I’m not a financial expert, but this is starting to look worrying. The Herald story quotes Toronto in the 1980s, I’m not sure if that’s a good comparison or not but surely the Auckland bubble cannot continue as it is ?

    • Charles 11.1

      Wouldn’t a person have to own an awful lot of not quite free-hold unproductive property for that to worry them? The article reasoning of “women entering the workforce” and “job growth”, doesn’t match our current reality. If someone had a mortgage on a family home, insurance and a reasonably secure income, it shouldn’t be a concern.
      House prices fall by 50%, dairy prices fall by whatever, consumer goods offered at 50mths interest free: might be indicators of “confidence”; certainly favours the already rich, but a series of events difficult to syncronise to that end from central location; could be the final symptom of financial “collapse” that would have actually occurred ten years ago. Even if it was, I dont see what there is to be scared of – in times of financial depression, those with resources will do everything they can to secure deferred payment from those who require the goods/services. You say it yourself. None of this was going to last for ever.

    • DH 11.2

      It’s more wishful thinking Jenny. Even a cursory glance tells us that Auck is different to Toronto. The continued low interest rates are a big contributor to recent housing inflation here, a sustained 10% fall in interest rates will result in a corresponding 10% increase in property prices (both residential & commercial)

      Mortgage interest rates have fallen over 33% since 2008 and now that they look likely to stay down over the longer term the risk of taking out a mortgage is low so more people are taking out mortgages.

      The Toronto market crash also occured after developers & speculators rushed in to exploit the increased demand for housing by building condos (apartments) & the likes. Eventually there were more condos & houses than there were buyers so the bubble burst.

      Auckland Council won’t let developers build enough apartments, and the population is still increasing, so the demand for housing here isn’t abating.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.3

      Are we on the verge of some sort of financial collapse? How likely is this ?

      Yes, very likely – when is the question nobody has the answer to.

      I’m not a financial expert, but this is starting to look worrying.

      It should do as it’s exactly the same things as what caused the GFC in 2008. Has a lot of similarities to the causes of the Great Depression as well.

      The fact is that ‘investors’ are more interested in pocketing high returns from capital gains than from producing anything. Producing something costs money and effort whereas capital gains don’t.

    • Murray Rawshark 11.4

      As far as I can see, they will plunge at some time because the whole thing is a pyramid scheme. The only question is whether the plunge is managed or totally out of control. Neither of our main parties have the will or the courage to attack the Kiwi dream of getting rich from property, so I think we’re in for a hard landing.

  11. weka 12

    All the Green MPs are fasting today to raise awareness of climate change and how it affects food security. It’s part of the Fast for the Climate global action,

    The Green Party caucus will sit on Parliament steps with their empty plates at lunchtime to urge the Government to take greater action on climate change.

    Greens co-leader Russel Norman said the people in areas most affected by climate change were already finding it harder to access food.

    “The connection between climate change and food was highlighted by the devastating cyclone Pam in Vanuatu, where food crops were wiped out,” Norman said.

    “To show empathy for our Pacific neighbours who will especially suffer the effects of climate change, the National Government must commit to dramatically lowering our emissions and to playing a constructive role at global negotiations.”

    The MPs will be sitting on the steps of Parliament on Tuesday at 1pm.

    • alwyn 12.1

      It would appear, after reading the article you link to that they are not going to eat at lunchtime.
      On the other hand I’m sure they have all had a large breakfast and morning tea.
      Starve themselves my foot.

      • Tracey 12.1.1

        “On the other hand I’m sure they have all had a large breakfast and morning tea.”

        how are you “sure”?

        • McFlock

          because that’s what Alwyn would do – pretend to make a sacrifice in public, but make up for it in private. Like any tory, Alwyn can’t understand integrity.

      • weka 12.1.2

        AFAIK they’re fasting all day (saw Hughes on twitter this morning talking about being hungry). The lunchtime thing is called activism, where they make what they are doing visible and use it to highlight the issue of climate change and food security.

        • rawshark-yeshe

          alwyn has just proved she has no faculty to understand such altruism .. shame really.

  12. Gareth 13

    “New Zealand could not adopt Victorian-style taxes because of its free trade agreements with some countries.”

    Did anyone notice this comment from John Key yesterday? Our free trade agreements stop the government from introducing new taxes to reduce the amount of foreign investment in rental properties.

    • rawshark-yeshe 13.1

      Thx Gareth … my word, he is fatuous in so many ways, considering the Victorian law is only one week old.

      Likewise, the comments under that story are revealing … as someone suggests, put on a 50% tax and let’s just see if it works !!!

      Key is beyond useless but so dangerous in his willingness just to sell, sell, sell.

      Oh, and TVOne News last night reports that the lovely Whatuwhiwhi holiday camp is going to be imported workers accommodation for the huge Chinese-owned resort. Gulag with a view, anyone ?

      And we have seen so many times that specially imported workers are not covered byany NZ labour regs including wages … forf example, the battle continues with the Chinese workers removing the asbestos from rail carriages in Hutt Valley.

      And yes, Mike Sabin runs it all in Northland. Well, until he doesn’t, I guess.

      • jenny kirk 13.1.1

        Fatuous – absolutely ! oh, what did we do to deserve such a stupid PM ! !

        • Tracey

          I blame our parents… for bringing us all up the way they did.. 😉

          They wanted us to be secure from the uncertainties of war that they grew up with but instead we interpreted it as needing lots and ltts and lots of things and money and stuff.

      • Skinny 13.1.2

        Good work highlighting this rawshark-yeshe, well said.

        We need to galvanise public support to ban the importation of foreign slave labour under the guise of the foreigners employment laws. Pressure needs to be put on the National Government, targeting weakling Woodhouse.

        What a sham Chinese workers are working here in New Zealand reputed to be paid $3 an hour, ffs 1/5 of our minimum wage. What a crock of bullshit weakling Woodhouse came up with all sorts of excuses ‘not too demand the Chinese employer front up with payslips verifying payrates.’ I even think he tried claiming it was against the employment rights. Fortunately I understand the NZ Rail workers Union is going to test this in court. We need to create some noise around this serious issue.

        Please standard friends feed as much information about this slave camp Sabin is setting up in Northland. I can organise a decent collective ( political, unions, environmentalists) siege on this rich foreigners paradise pad.

        • rawshark-yeshe

          That Rail Workers Union court case will be interesting .. and we know Winston is watching this up north .. Tiger Mountain is on the ground up there and is watching .. did you see her post a reply to me earlier ?

          up above at 9.0 ….

          • te reo putake

            Her? Har!

            • rawshark-yeshe

              she/he is a har ?? isn’t it lovely sometimes we just don’t know so it confounds our stereotypes !! 😀

              Someone once wrote on a door : I love grils.
              Someone corrected it to : I love girls.

              Then someone else: But what about us grils ???


    • The Chairman 13.2

      So while other nations are free to instate new taxes, we’ve largely signed our sovereignty away?

      • Tracey 13.2.1

        Yes, and some NZ and Aussie business owners are having a behind closed doors party to thank our “Leaders” 😉

  13. freedom 14

    But wait, there’s always more…

    RWNJ productions bring their latest international gaming sensation to homes everywhere. At great expense to the funding that used to go to Hospitals and Schools, a dedicated team of gravy-train-spotters spent weeks touring the world diligently researching barstools in only the finest of casinos, before hurriedly hashing together this piece of under-produced rubbish on the flight home.

    That’s right, the rumours are true, it’s finally here! RWNJ’s Snakes & Snakes.

    & now you too can play along in the comfort of your own home.

    Be it a humble hovel, a crumbling highway underpass or a cardboard mansion with a view of the supermarket dumpsters, your home can now rock along with the economy and you never have to feel left out of all the fun. With just a couple of hours spent begging on your local mainstreet and a quick trip to your local library, you too can print out your very own full colour Snakes & Snakes game board. Don’t have your own dice? Who cares! Just fake it like the pros do and use whatever numbers you like.

    Win at all costs,
    because at the end of the day, it’s not like the costs are yours (for actual gameplay with cutout ladders)

  14. GR 15

    Interested to see the hubris of Double Dip Blinglish and Dirty Deeds Smith. They are directly profiting from the sale of State houses to the tune of millions of dollars. They are majority shareholders of the so called Tamaki Redevelopment Company, that is responsible for the eviction of State house tenants, and sale of those homes. For every house sold they pocket 29.5% of the sale price each. Kleptocracy writ large.

    • GR 15.1

      Related article from Mana News:

      • phillip ure 15.1.1

        um..!..aren’t they there as representatives of the crown..? their ministerial roles only..?


      • Realblue 15.1.2

        The stupid is staggering with Mana and anyone else who thinks that the Ministers involved have personal pecuniary interests in this. It is vested in the crown. This guy is a spokesman for Mana? They are representing the crowns holdings through the office of their ministry.

        • Murray Rawshark

          I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the ministers have personal pecuniary interests in this, just not in the way Mana News is saying. I think there’s more stupid in people who think Tory ministers don’t line their own pockets than can be found in two Manas.

        • Molly

          This move is the first in removing any kind of public interest and influence over social and state housing.

          Voters, while currently fairly ineffective, while housing is still in government ownership – can direct their lobbying and protesting towards reasonably straightforward targets while the housing is still under the full ownership of the crown.

          Although the move to a LLC company seems initially seems to be sideways, it is the critical first step in providing a constantly moving target for criticism and protest. (Instead of HNZ and government, we may now have HNZ and government policy AND more than one LLC). Because they are now LLC held, unconcerned MP’s and other representatives can now say “I don’t agree with it, but this is a private business and I have no influence over it. We live in a democratic country and we cannot interfere with private businesses who are following the law.”

          … and so on…

  15. Gosman 16

    Greece moves ever closer to default and the economic chaos that will result from being kicked out of the Eurozone

    • McFlock 16.1

      I’m sure that if that happens, the Greeks will be really cut up about printing their own currency again.

      • Gosman 16.1.1

        Except most of their savings will be wiped out prior to them being able to print their own currency.

        • McFlock

          you hope.

          • Gosman

            I know rather than hope. Bank collapses tend to lead to that situation and unfortunately for the Greeks when they occur after they indicate they are moving back to using their own currency they won’t be able to get any funds to bail them out.

            • McFlock

              Well, you don’t “know” because economics is a bunk religion, not a science.

              This greek government is likely to do what the us should have done at the start of the GFC: taken over the liabilities faced by the banks in order to protect the people, and let the multinational banks collapse.

    • Tracey 16.2


  16. Philip Ferguson 17

    The disappearance of former militant union leader Matt McCarten into the Labour Party points up the conflicted and confused unions/Labour relationship/s:

  17. Gosman 18

    The most pertinent part of that article is the following

    ‘Firms are postponing much-needed investment and are pleading for a resolution, says Theodore Fessas, chairman of the Hellenic Federation of Enterprises (SEV), which represents companies from most branches and sectors of the Greek economy.

    “Uncertainty is the greatest problem today. It is now threatening even the healthiest businesses, those that managed, despite the crisis, to pay wages and taxes on time, and fulfil all their obligations.” ‘

    That is what pursuing a reckless leftist inspired policy platform inevitably leads to. Investment and credit dry up as people lose faith in what is happening. Syriza has a lot to answer for.

    • The Chairman 18.1

      Opposed to austerity measures that are certain to destroy business demand?

      • Gosman 18.1.1

        The options for Greece was largely restricted to trading their way out of the mess they got themselves in via exporting. Syriza decided it wanted to try a Keynesian approach but has discovered you can’t do this is you haven’t got control of your own monetary and fiscal policies and in fact you will make things a hell of a lot worse even hinting you want to do this.

        • Skinny

          Oh Gosman sit down. All is under control once Germany pay up (with interest) what they owe the Greeks. Did they honestly believe that they could welsh on their debts.

          Pay up and shut up.

          • Gosman

            LOL! And how pray tell will the Greeks get the Germans to stump up with Cash if they tell them to bugger off?

            • Skinny

              Well wise guy either way the Greeks are going to default on the German’s. Better the German’s cut a deal or risk the domino effect of other Countries pulling from the euro. Now pray tell us how Germany will fair, better or worst?

              • Gosman

                The ECB and the other members of the Euro have already developed a plan around ensuring a Grexit is contained. It isn’t just the Germans who have lost patience with the Greeks either. Much of Northern Europe (e.g. the Finns and Dutch) can’t be bothered with the games the Greeks are trying to play.

          • alwyn

            According to Germany West Germany paid full reparations in 1960 and there was a final settlement when East and West Germany re-united in 1990.
            Their view is that nothing further is owed.
            Greece on the other hand seems to want something like Treaty of Waitangi settlement claims. One “full and final” settlement after another , followed each time by further demands.

            • Gosman

              Greece may well have a strong moral argument for a repayment of a loan they were forced to make to the Nazis. However demanding reparations for other aspects of the Occupation is just blustering.

            • Murray Rawshark

              Te Tiriti was supposed to institute a partnership. Full and final settlements are made when a partnership is dissolved. You might like that, I suppose.

            • DoublePlusGood

              Well, if you clearly don’t know anything about reparations and the Treaty of Waitangi, how can we take your comments about Germany-Greece reparations seriously?

        • millsy

          Then Greece should quit the Euro.

          The whole concept of the Euro was a stupid one. You cannot have monetary and fiscal union without political union – plain and simple.

          Probably what the Germans wanted all along anyway. Fuhrer Merkel has a nice ring to it.

          • Gosman

            Quiting the Euro would break a Syriza election commitment and will make the situation in Greece a lot, lot worse than it is now in the short run.

            • millsy

              Yeah, well, Im not the one who is desperate to screw down Greek Living standards.

          • Molly

            “The whole concept of the Euro was a stupid one. You cannot have monetary and fiscal union without political union – plain and simple.”
            Agree. Even though I was fairly politically unaware at this stage of my life, the proposal struck me as a particularly bad one for this reason. Was even further surprised when it was adopted.

            Now, I tend to be cynical and believe that it was promoted and adopted for the ease of influence over all Eurozone countries. An administration proficiency improvement perhaps.

        • The Chairman

          A Keynesian approach doesn’t rule out exporting.

          Syriza are trying to negotiate a more practical solution. Creditors unwillingness is prolonging a workable outcome being found, thus intensifying the uncertainty and negatively impacting on the economy .

  18. cogito 19

    Shrinking WINZ dental loans

    Beneficiaries advocate Kay Brereton said the need for dental work had not gone away.

    “It’s worrying that there’s people out there whose health is getting worse. There’s got to be a lot of people out there who are living with pain and eating on one side of their mouth. That’s the kind of thing that I’ve encountered, before they [WINZ] said that we don’t do this anymore.”

    In the 2010/11 financial year, Work and Income loaned $9,398,451 to beneficiaries for emergency dental work. Over the past year that figure was slashed to $45,100, official documents showed.

    Ms Brereton does not think there has been any specific changes to policy, except Government pressure on Work and Income to shrink beneficiary debt.
    End quote.

    So is this how Key is funding his $26M effing flag ego trip?!

    • freedom 19.1

      Yup, to put it into perspective, last year the country spent more on global jaunts for Jim Bolger and his wife than what was spent on the emergency dental health of some of its most vulnerable citizens.

      Yeah but why worry eh? It’s not like decisions to ignore critical dental emergencies ever lead to other health and well being issues whose social costs will most likely dwarf the costs of the emergency dental treatment being denied, all because of pressure to scrape the runway for the spruce goose surplus.

      That dental services are not part of the country’s core health service has always been something I have a fundamental difficulty with. But as many have commented over the years, logic and government are not exactly bedfellows. Let’s face it, they’re barely living in the same house anymore.

    • Charles 19.2

      Article needs more info. Otherwise it’s he said/she said. How are WINZ budgets formulated? Are they using the old “what you don’t spend this period gets removed from budget next period” approach? Nine Mill on dental work in 2010/11 suddenly dropping away four years later wouldn’t be out of the ordinary. People have a finite number of teeth, combined with the above budget approach, and hey presto.

      $9M divided by 1 – 32 possible tooth issues per adult, divided by roughly $400 per tooth removal (simple example), over four years – and it’s not so impossible. While such a method takes no account for future problems, I guess Labour will sort that out *cough cough* later, by bringing salads back to school tuck shops and denying the removal of wisdom teeth as anti-intellectual propaganda. Beneficiary Advocate would have to prove that people haven’t been treated for existing need, and that reductions were pre-emptive, to present a story no one will remember come 2017. Sad fact.

      Dr.Crum’s comments ring true in my experience. Sit in a dentists office and you’ll hear people setting up payment plans. No one can ignore not being able to sleep for a week because of tooth pain and probably unable to sit through a WINZ interview either. If serious unaddressed dental work was sending those missing untreated patients to hospital, or to the grave, we’d have a matching story to join the dots.

      Anecdotally, I don’t think I’ve met a dentist who mixes professional attitude with the political “tendencies” of others in the medical professions. Maybe being an ass while your highly trained and profitable fingers are in someone’s mouth isn’t so smart.

      • weka 19.2.1

        Or, we could listen to one of the most experienced beneficiary advocates in the country and take note when she says there is a problem with existing beneficiaries accessing health care.

        “Dr.Crum’s comments ring true in my experience. Sit in a dentists office and you’ll hear people setting up payment plans. No one can ignore not being able to sleep for a week because of tooth pain and probably unable to sit through a WINZ interview either. If serious unaddressed dental work was sending those missing untreated patients to hospital, or to the grave, we’d have a matching story to join the dots.”

        Last time I went to the dentist the receptionist refused to even give me an appointment until I had the paperwork from WINZ saying they would cover the costs. Negotiating payment plans is dependent on having discretionary income (not true for many on a benefit), and it also depends on a practice being willing to trust a beneficiary (not all do).

        People, of any class, shouldn’t have to wait until the situation is so dire that their pain prevents them sitting through a WINZ interview.

        “Anecdotally, I don’t think I’ve met a dentist who mixes professional attitude with the political “tendencies” of others in the medical professions. Maybe being an ass while your highly trained and profitable fingers are in someone’s mouth isn’t so smart.”

        How do you explain the lack of low cost dental care then?

  19. Once was Tim 20

    What in God’s name has gone wrong with our justice system and Public Service when a High Court registrar thinks this was an OK thing to do? !!!!

    • McFlock 20.1

      I suspect they are not suited to their role. And that this incongruity will be shortly resolved.

    • Murray Rawshark 20.2

      “The defendant has interim name suppression to protect his right to a fair trial, but his image is allowed to be published.”

      I would find that acceptable in the case of the prominent one and the minsta’s bro as well.

  20. Gosman 21

    A government nationalises the Electricity sector and provides generous subsidies so people can afford electricity and then massive shortages occur and the same government has to impose strict rationing.

    Who would have thunk it?

    • Tracey 21.1


      Oh no, that’s right they got to a state of near crisis through the capitalist system

      • Gosman 21.1.1

        Given there were lessons to be learnt out of the Californian experience what lessons do you think people can take out of Venezuela’s current predicament?

      • alwyn 21.1.2

        What on earth does this story have to do with California Tracey?

        • Tracey

          california has a history of power shortages but isnt socialist. gosman likes to use venezuela as an example of failed socislism as others like to use it as a success. Sooooooo i pointed out that doyen of capitalism, california, suffers power shortages due to rampant capitalistic consumption.

          • Gosman

            You didn’t answer the question of what lessons could be learned from Venezuela suffering power shortages. Maybe it is that subsidising electricity is not sustainable long term. What do you reckon?

            • Macro

              I thought the lesson was obvious oh goose of little brain. The managed market (eg Venezuela) achieves a far more equitable distribution of a scare resource rather than reliance on the god of the “hidden hand”. So there is rationing of a scare resource. Far better than the privileged few gobbling it all up and keeping it to themselves. But then you probably have your nose firmly up their bottoms and so think otherwise.

            • Murray Rawshark

              The lessons are the same ones that California should have learned. Neither put enough corrupt criminal capitalists in prison to allow the problems to be fixed. Hopefully Venezuela will remedy this.

            • Tracey


      • Murray Rawshark 21.1.3

        Now they’re doing it all over again with water. Are Venezuelans thirsty too? Haven’t heard anything about that.

    • adam 21.2

      So your saying some electricity to the poor is worse than none at all Gossy?

      • Gosman 21.2.1

        I’m stating that to ensure the poor can access some electricity in the short run they have massively increased to costs involved to everyone. These costs will eventually be passed on in some manner and it is likely the poor will end up in an even worse position than they were before (Most likely no electricity, no jobs and no services that rely on electricity).

        • Draco T Bastard

          I’m stating that to ensure the poor can access some electricity in the short run they have massively increased to costs involved to everyone.

          No they haven’t. The costs have remained the same.

          These costs will eventually be passed on in some manner and it is likely the poor will end up in an even worse position than they were before (Most likely no electricity, no jobs and no services that rely on electricity).

          What a load of BS. If anything it’s likely to produce more jobs as the government continues massive investment in electricity production.

    • Draco T Bastard 21.3

      A lot of people don’t understand that pricing is there to restrict use. This applies to RWNJs as well as their usual complaint about carbon taxes is that it will raise fuel prices.

      Anyway, what Venezuela did there was wrong but not because of the price controls or the subsidies but because the controls were set incorrectly. What they should have done is set a reasonable amount of electricity that each household could use free and that anything above that cost an arm and a leg with the price increasing as you used more.

      That would have provided the security of supply that the poor need while also restricting use. It would have removed the need for the subsidies as well.

  21. ianmac 22

    Questions might be interesting today (unless Key takes Armstrong’s advice and makes a personal statement to shut down debate.)
    1. Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements; if so, why?

    3. ANDREW LITTLE to the Prime Minister: Does he enforce high standards of conduct on all his Ministers, including himself?

  22. freedom 23

    Bob Jones dribbles onto his bib and again the Herald publishes it

    • North 23.1

      Jones masturbating his bone

      Re Key masticating a scone

      Rights For Every Other Scone !

      Love your tones


  23. Macro 24

    Last evening I went to see a film “Salt of the Earth”. A documentary featuring the life work of social photographer Sebastião Salgado. If you have not seen this film you must. There are parts that are so hard to witness – The graphic realities shown of the droughts in Ethiopia, and the Sahel, the wars in Serbia and Rwanda, are simply heartbreaking, and man’s inhumanity to man almost too much to bear.
    But there is hope at the end with the reforestation program he and his wife have begun in Brazil. A very moving documentary.

    • Murray Rawshark 24.1

      It’s interesting that his name translates as “Salted Sebastian”. I wonder if he called his film “Salt of the Earth” because of that.

      • Macro 24.1.1

        He does make a reference to the biblical quote “you are the salt of the Earth” early on in the film, and his work is focused entirely on the global human condition. But yes an interesting observation. I’m sure that has something to do with it as well. Interestingly he trained as an economist and worked for the World Bank before giving that all up to concentrate on photography; a much more influential and productive life resulted.

  24. amirite 25

    ‘The brother of a Cabinet Minister is accused of abusing two 11-year-old girls.

    The man, whose name, age, and job have been suppressed, is accused of indecently assaulting an 11-year-old girl and of attempting to make intimate recordings of another girl, also aged 11.’

    ‘There is a very real conflict of interest for the cabinet minister whose brother is facing serious assault charges, Labour Party leader Andrew Little has said.’

    ‘Prime Minister John Key will not be making an apology to Parliament today for his repeated pulling of an Auckland waitress’ ponytail.’

  25. veutoviper 26

    Blanket suppression again – for three weeks at least. Deja vu, anyone?

    Well, Stuff are much more forthcoming on some of the details of this case.

    Interesting difference in reporting. The Herald calls it a total blanket suppression; Stuff reports the judge as being uncomfortable with a total blanket suppression. The Stuff reporter is named as Phil McCarthy, who works for the Southland Times.

    CAREFUL – we must not name possible court location as this is suppressed.

    • veutoviper 26.1

      SNAP, Amirite!

    • arkie 26.2

      That stuff article you link to is no longer up as far as I can see.

        • weka

          Thanks! Interesting, I tried that this morning and got blank pages.

          It does look like the reporter got somethign wrong about the scope of the suppression order. Or what the judge granted was a partial suppression but still more than the man’s name. Anyone know how that works?

          • BLiP

            Not me. I sorta get how suppression orders are supposed to work but note that in the practical application they seem only to favour the privileged. In this case, I wonder whether the suppression order(s) might include “any details” which could identify the alleged victims. If so, stating their age at the time of the alleged offending might be a problem??


            • weka

              That would certainly explain the differences between the two newspaper articles.

        • arkie


          edited because weka has asked my questions! haha

          • weka

            we can now only hope that someone can answer them, ha.

            • arkie


              This article mentions the ministers brother’s appearing at court in Chch but was published before suppression? Does this need to be taken down like the stuff article?

              • veutoviper

                That’s interesting. I wonder whether they were assuming that it would be in Christchurch based on the fact that the interim name suppression injunction against publication of the name of the accused and his Cabinet Minister brother was issued by the High Court in Chch at the weekend. My money on the actual hearing being further south based on the location of the Stuff reporter who wrote the article after the hearing which has now been taken down. BUT must not name the possible location(s)!

                But I am a little concerned that the post-hearing Stuff article is now available further up this thread and wonder whether it should be removed.

                Obviously this is up to Lprent and the other mods, but there has been some discussion on Twitter re the article and possible breach of the latest suppression order, with a number of people removing their tweets referring to it and its contents.

        • Anne

          Its getting to be a bit of a habit in National Party circles isn’t it.

        • rawshark-yeshe

          So the judge did not issue blanket suppression, hence the details of ages, gender and charges.

          I guess Stuff taking all that down was pressure from higher up the Key chain.

          • veutoviper

            Sorry, but I don’t think we can assume that at all – ie that there was not a blanket suppression, and that there was pressure from Key or others on the judge. The latter is an absolute no-no, in terms of probity and the separation of the Executive from the Judiciary, and the latter’s independence. IMHO, Stuff stuffed up, published, realised the mistake, and removed their article.

            • rawshark-yeshe

              sorry vv, can’t agree with you on this one … I believe Stuff published what was 100% legal to publish .. they simply would not make that kind of error. Why they removed it ? Well, we’ll never know.

              But this gubmint has terms of probity that none of us has been able to find for several years now. There is almost no ‘no-no’ this slimy gubmint has not been willing to cross.

              “Carpe dirt” are their mots de jour.

        • rawshark-yeshe

          and Blip .. how do you find the google cache like that please ? thx

          • BLiP

            It comes up as an option in Firefox (and Chrome too, I think). Look for the little pointer (a triangle shape) which appears at the end of the URLs (usually in green text) in Google search results. Click on the pointer and the option to use the cache appears. Bear in mind that it will only work for a day or so if the original article has been disappeared from its originating site.

            • rawshark-yeshe

              super .. thx Blip. that was great you saved that today for us all.

            • ropata

              You can also use a Firefox extension called “Resurrect Pages” to recover dead links from various sources: google, webcite, gigablast,, yahoo, bing

    • weka 26.3

      Stuff article is not there now.

      • veutoviper 26.3.1

        So I see. Perhaps MS or Lprent may wish to consider whether to remove/edit my and Amirite’s comments.

        • weka

          I think it’s fine, they’re probably editing it, and it’s useful to see that what they put up had to be taken down. Next time, cut and past the whole lot 😉 You did narrow down the possibilities a lot though.

          • rawshark-yeshe

            screen shot if you can is always best .. several different ways to do it, I’m sure good techies will advise !

            I use a free Microsoft app called Snipping Tool on my laptop with Windows 7 .. but there are others. Mine is free here:

            Question — if as Stuff reported, a judge is uncomfortable with a complete blanket suppression, how on earth is it issued over her/his head ???????????

            • veutoviper

              Thanks so much that tool. I have never known how to do a screen shot, and actually asked for advice last week but got none.

              In this particular instance, I would have taken a screen shot, but probably not published it here until I was sure that it was ‘legal’.

              As I noted in my comment at 26, there was a big difference between the Herald and Stuff articles which set my alarm bells ringing, so I was being circumspect about saying much – but could not resist mentioning the reporter’s name and newspaper since the Stuff article gave his name. Don’t know how long the article was up online, but it has not reappeared or been replaced. Stuff’s lawyers may be earning their keep ….

              In terms of the blanket suppression, the Stuff reporter may have left the court before the judge gave his/her full decision to file his story. Its happened before.

              PS, I just rechecked Stuff and could not find any article, but used their search tool using “blanket suppression” and the original headline still comes up but does not link to anything.

              • rawshark-yeshe

                and there may be easier ways to do a screenshot .. post your machine and operating system and see what suggestions there are .. I know many are more simple than Snipping Tool but I don’t know them !

                Thanks for you comments .. I searched the Southland Times, and of all things, there is young man charged with sexually abusing two young women .. have we become a nation of pedophiles ? wtf.

                And why is our ponytail pulling perverty PM protecting them ? Why?????

              • weka

                If you cut and paste you can copy bits to ts (can’t do that with a screen shot)

                • veutoviper

                  I’m pretty good at the old cut and paste, but there are times such as the Stuff article today, where getting a full screenshot before it disappears is useful.

                  • weka

                    True and you get things like a date etc. Just wondering how you share it with the rest of us ;- p

              • freedom

                Veutoviper, re screenshot options

                Take a look at your keyboard, does it have a key with “print screen” ?
                Press this key once and it will take an image of the entire monitor area. It should show you where it is saved or allow you to select such. It will most likely use a time stamp as title for the image. (btw, having the address bar in your screenshot helps confirm origin of image, and look out for any personally identifiable content that might have been captured from your desktop etc) I use the print screen option for most screengrabs and edit the image later.

                Most print screen buttons work no matter what is being displayed on the monitor, be it a web browser, a text document you are editing, a video you are viewing etc.

                In your preferences/settings you might be able to assign a ‘hot-keys’ screenshot/print screen button if one does not appear on your keyboard.

                If unsure where the image has been saved, check your main drive’s ‘Pictures’ folder or the ‘Downloads’ “folder’. It may have a subfolder for screenshots but is just as likely to place it in the general folder contents.

                As pointed out by rawshark-yeshe, there are numerous free programs out there that allow you to more precisely select areas of the screen to copy and these are very handy. EG: Screengrab is one “add on” for Firefox that is very useful and has a variety of handy tasks it can perform.

                • veutoviper

                  Thanks freedom – always wondered what that Print Screen button was for, LOL!

                  Oldies like me get set in our ways, but will have a play when I get some free time.

                • rawshark-yeshe

                  cool … 🙂

                • Draco T Bastard

                  If unsure where the image has been saved, check your main drive’s ‘Pictures’ folder or the ‘Downloads’ “folder’.

                  In Windows it’s not saved to disc but only to memory. To save it requires opening up a graphics program (ie, Paint) and pasting it in. You can then crop, edit and save as you see fit.

  26. Bill 27

    A nice little example of how the msm can twist and amplify a nothing into an unacceptable something to be condemned…

    A guy by the name of ‘Imperial Biscuit’ rides around outside St Enochs Square in Glasgow playing ‘good-bye’ themed songs from a portable amp hooked to his bike.

    Another well known guy by the name of Sean Clerkin hollers stuff through a megaphone.

    Labour supporters are gathered around Jim Murphy, who has thought it a good idea to enlist the help of Eddie Izzard for a street rally.

    Other people of various ages and political leanings hover or pass by to get to the Underground and a chant of ‘Red Tories Out’ is taken up by some, that Jim Murphy then attempts to turn to ‘Get the Tories Out’.

    No-one is hurt, no-one is injured and extensive video footage from ‘Imperial Biscuit’ lasting about 20 minutes shows a fair bit of good humour and one instance of a Labour voter shoving a young SNP voter away. (He actually takes the time out to ask the guy to ‘cool it’)

    And the British press reports….

    Eddie Izzard labels nationalist protesters as ‘violent’ and ‘aggressive’ as fights break out on Glasgow trip – The Independent.

    Eddie Izzard slams ‘violent’ protesters in Glasgow – The Scotsman

    Scottish independence activists ambush Labour election rally – The Guardian

    Wings Over Scotland has a piece including the video footage of the event for anyone interested in how media can work….or for anyone geekily obsessed with the UK election 😉

  27. Clemgeopin 28

    QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS in Parliament today 2pm

    1. Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements; if so, why?

    2. TIM MACINDOE to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on low inflation in New Zealand, and how does that benefit households and businesses?

    3. ANDREW LITTLE to the Prime Minister: Does he enforce high standards of conduct on all his Ministers, including himself?

    4. DAVID SEYMOUR to the Minister for Economic Development: What are the fiscal risks to the Crown from Tracey Martin’s New Zealand International Convention Centre Act 2013 Repeal Bill, if any?

    5. PAUL FOSTER-BELL to the Minister of Science and Innovation: What is the Government doing to grow business-led research and development?

    6. ANDREW LITTLE to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement in relation to achieving a surplus that it is like “landing a 747 on a pinhead”?

    7. SARAH DOWIE to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: How will Budget 2015 help strengthen compliance with minimum employment standards?

    8. KEVIN HAGUE to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all his statements?

    9. Hon ANNETTE KING to the Minister of Health: Are New Zealanders who require elective surgery receiving it in a timely manner?

    10. STUART SMITH to the Minister for Disability Issues: How is the Government’s investment in the New Zealand Sign Language Fund helping sign language users to promote and maintain the language during Sign Language Week?

    11. EUGENIE SAGE to the Minister of Conservation: Does she agree with Professor Mark Urban that New Zealand’s indigenous species are at greater risk of extinction from climate change than species in many other parts of the world; and if not, why not?

    12. GRANT ROBERTSON to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that “returning to surplus and repaying debt are among the most important things the Government can do to ensure New Zealand can withstand future shocks and build a more competitive economy based on exports and new jobs”; if so, will there be a surplus for the 2014/15 year?


    1. Hon TREVOR MALLARD to the Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee: How many submitters on the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill have asked to be heard by the committee and of those how many has she requested to attend to give evidence?

    2. Hon TREVOR MALLARD to the Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee: How many submitters to the committee on the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill requesting a yes/no vote has she requested attend to give evidence out of those who made submissions on this point?


    Parliament live TV link here:

  28. lprent 29

    Exactly the same kind of database error as the last time.

    Changing the backup sequence to 10 minutes. If it happens again, I will look at the database engine.

  29. Clemgeopin 30

    Nate Silver’s UK, prediction up date, 4 May:

    Cameron has promised tax cuts!
    Miliband has wowed to stop Conservative proposed cuts to NHS.

    • ianmac 30.1

      I think that the NHS is being broken into parts which in affluent areas, private USA Companies snap them up. So steady demolition of NHS. Wonder how Privatisation can deliver a good service and make a profit?
      So if Milliband can halt the sale – jolly good.

  30. cogito 31

    UK Cabinet Club, aka cash for access…. David Cameron style:

    The Tory Leader’s Group donor club: ‘A chance for like-minded people to talk’

    A payment of £50,000 gives business people direct access to David Cameron and other senior Conservatives at dinners, drinks receptions and other events

    “The one undeniable advantage which donors in the Leader’s Group have is that they can express their views directly to the prime minister or to other senior ministers. They do not have to rely upon civil servants or intermediaries to pass on their views.”

    • ianmac 31.1

      Wow. Why don’t the Nats here do stuff like that? But no. NZers would be very angry if we had Ministers for sale. They would rise up and march!

  31. bloody hell..!

    in q-time little told key the govt. should be buying milk products @ the global auctions – to prop up the price for farmers..


    • Murray Rawshark 32.1

      Muldoon is back. 🙁

      • Draco T Bastard 32.1.1

        And is leader of Labour and National (in slightly different guises).

    • freedom 32.2

      not what he said at all and you know it.

      ‘bystanders’ can do many things that do not involve purchasing stock

    • Draco T Bastard 32.3


      We’ve propped up farmers to our detriment before and we definitely don’t need to be doing it again.

    • joe90 32.4

      in q-time little told key the govt. should be buying milk products @ the global auctions – to prop up the price for farmers..

      Confabulation much.

      Andrew Little
      : When will he admit that his Government acting as a bystander at the dairy auctions rather than building a more diverse economy is the real reason his economic promises are falling away as fast as the milk price?

      Rt Hon JOHN KEY
      : I do not know whether I misinterpreted the question from the Leader of the Opposition, but he seems to be saying that the Government should be in there buying milk powder in the auction. If he is, that is an interesting use of Government resources.

      • te reo putake 32.4.1

        So not Little calling for the gummint to buy milk at all? Something completely different … and easily checked … instead. I’m shocked … shocked I tell ya.

      • phillip ure 32.4.2


        ‘When will he admit that his Government acting as a bystander at the dairy auctions rather than building a more diverse economy is the real reason his economic promises are falling away as fast as the milk price? ‘..

        wtf is he saying if not that the govt should stop acting as a ‘bystander’ @ the milk auctions..

        ..what does ‘not acting as a byestander’ actually mean..if not to become involved as a player in that auction..?

        • phillip ure

          i guess that’s what i get for believing the words that come out of keys’ mouth..

        • te reo putake

          The ‘action’ part of the sentence is “building a more diverse economy”. Bystander is merely a factual observation. I think you may have (hopefully temporarily) been influenced by Key’s read of it, which twists the meaning.

          • b waghorn

            Key twist the meaning of something ,well I never’!

            • te reo putake

              Cor, blimey! Blow me down with a feather! etc.

              I note that what passes for a speaker these days didn’t require the PM to actually answer the question, even though Key started his reply by saying wasn’t sure he understood it and went on to talk about something else instead.

        • Clemgeopin

          Oh, man, Phil, you are spinning away crap attacking Little unfairly and stupidly just like Key, Slater, Farrar and other RW arse holes. You aren’t one like them, I am sure!

  32. b waghorn 33

    “The Tamaki redevelopment company is broken up into three shareholders Auckland council, Bill English and Nick Smith.  Both English and Smith own 29.5% of the shares while Auckland council own 41%”

    The above is from mana news via imperator fish on my fb page is there any truth to it.??? Please tell me its bull.

    • ianmac 33.1

      Looked at that this morning but I think it must mean that the Government owns the shares via the Min of Finance and the Min of Housing. If they own the shares in their own right though then look out!

    • Puckish Rogue 33.2

      What it means is that:

      A. Joe Trinder is a secret right wing plant
      B. Joe Trinder is dumber than a bag of hammers
      C. Joe Trinder thinks his readers are dumber than a bag of spanners
      D. Joe Trinder thinks the MSM are dumber than the aforementioned hammer and will pick up the headline and run with it (and then continue C but on a wider scale)

      • Realblue 33.2.1

        maybe it was humour……no, he is dumber than a sack of hammers. He is preaching to the Mana electorate though, so maybe it’s ok to be dumber than a sack of hammers.

    • millsy 33.3

      The ministers hold the shares on behalf of the Crown. This has been the case with all SOEs.

      Joe Trinder kinda shot himself in the foot there.

    • weka 33.4

      “The shares appear to be held by the offices they hold, however now that this housing stock is in a private company, once the dust settles, these shares can be gifted/sold without public notification.”

      Is that second but true?

      • RedBaronCV 33.4.1

        The shares can be handled like any other SOE. But what the company can do is sell assets – so long as it isn’t a major transaction i.e all houses at once then it can dribble the houses away

    • RedBaronCV 33.5

      I’ve just looked at the companies office – yes Nick smith & bill english hold them as ministers of the crown.
      But the really interesting little thing is that this company & these shareholders were set up in August 2012
      The current bunch of directors date back to around Dec 2012.
      The constitution was amended in Feb 2014 which appears to up things like Treaty observance.
      Directors are: Anne CANDY, Brian Patrick DONNELLY, Eru Reweti LYNDON, Susan Carrell MACKEN, Soana Akolotu PAMAKA, David John SAX, Christopher Martin UDALE. Are these the council & crown nominees?

      From this perhaps we can assume that this housing intent predated the election by a substantial time perid. Where we lied to at election time???

  33. ianmac 34

    David Fisher has had an interesting OIA reply from the PM’s office re the claims that Snowden’s info might be ‘wrong or misleading or forgeries” etc.
    Summary of David’s column:

    What was the issue?
    Top secret GCSB and NSA documents detailed the way the agencies operated.

    How did the Prime Minister respond?
    John Key refused to comment on “stolen” information which could be fabricated.

    Was there a basis for the suggestion they were forgeries?
    The PM’s office has confirmed there was no basis to the claim.

    Has any Snowden document been shown to be “fabricated”?
    No, not in any of the countries in which there has been extensive reporting.

  34. One Anonymous Bloke 35

    the democratic solution includes the principle that women’s freedom is the freedom of society and that the freedom of women is the guarantee of all other freedoms.

    A lengthy article at The Rojava Report covers Syrian history, its current (semi-failed) state and future, and concludes, among other things, that its armed forces must respect and affirm:

    1. The transition from an authoritarian, nationalist, and chauvinistic structure to a decentralized democratic system in which everyone shares in self-management.
    2. The struggle against Salafist jihadist groups of any name.
    3. The unity of the Syrian nation.
    4. Respect for the diversity of the Syrian community with all its constituent peoples.

    Powerful stuff, and well worth reading in its entirety.

    • weka 35.1

      Will have a read later, but the main question I have is what are they doing with the people that disagree, or can’t/won’t change?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 35.1.1

        I think you mean what are they doing to them, and yes, I agree, it’s a good question.

  35. Rosemary McDonald 37

    A small win for disabled and family carers.

    A strong criticism from the Appeal Court about poorly constructed, ‘rushed through under urgency’ legislation.

    Their Honours, in their decision, available here… said about the

    Part 4A ammendment to the Public Health and Disability Act (17th May 2013)

    “It contained a number of features that are traditionally regarded as being contrary to sound constitutional law and convention –”

    “The draconian measures introduced in s 70B(2)(c) to remove rights of challenge for breaches of family care policies said nothing about the Atkinson policy and we cannot be expected to strain the statutory text to remove all retrospective rights of claim arising from that policy.”

    “While both counsel accept that the courts must respect and apply pt 4A, like any other legislation, we agree with them that if
    the words have not achieved the result which its promoters intended the courts should not seek to fill the gaps as a means of dealing with inadequate drafting.”

    “Winkelmann J held that if Parliament had intended to take the unusual step of retrospectively reversing a finding of inconsistency by the Tribunal, it could be expected to do so deliberately and to have used express and unambiguous language.”

    At the time of the passing of that shitty piece of legislation Andrew Geddis posted on Pundit…

    and TDB posted…

    It’s going to be very interesting how this unfolds.

    • John Shears 37.1

      Thanks for the link to the court proceedings and judgment.
      Missed your original posting have read the judgement and yes this is a very important step forward in what had been a blot on our care practises.

  36. rawshark-yeshe 38

    OMFG.. disaster coming to a motorway near you …

    Let’s see Bridges and Key talk their way out of this one. Cheap, faulty imported concrete used on the Waterview project. ( It’s the new leaky building syndrome folks .. and oh look, it’s Fletchers again !)

    Just now:

    • One Anonymous Bloke 38.1

      They’ll say it’s an example of the quality control system working, and on the evidence of your link they’d be right too.

      Imported concrete that’s made in Auckland?

      • rawshark-yeshe 38.1.1

        maybe this batch is not imported … that’s a whole other scandal waiting to literally crack open.

    • Pasupial 38.2

      Approximately 35 customers have been affected including a mix of commercial and residential projects.

      It’s unlikely that these customers were do-it-yourselfers getting a single load of concrete to do; “backyard pathways”, or similar. Those dealing direct with the Firth/ Fletcher’s factory would all have been big projects.

      “In approximately half of the cases no action will be needed and the concrete will remain in place”, sounds like; in over half the cases immediate repair is necessary to maintain structural integrity, and the rest settled for cash. So that’s 17 or more building projects where the concrete is rotten, but not repaired. I’d be very careful about buying any Auckland property on a new development where the concrete was poured in April 2015.

    • Draco T Bastard 38.3

      Doesn’t appear to have been imported concrete but concrete made by Firth which is owned by Fletchers.

      • rawshark-yeshe 38.3.1

        yep … but watch for an imported concrete scandal … slater has been writing about it for many weeks .. but of course, he could be making it up … and I seem to recall Winston asked a question about it in the house … a few months ago now …

    • joe90 38.4

      Most likely concrete made with an imported cement with high alkaline levels.

  37. i noted on other thread that that is what i get for believing key..

    ..but in my defence..this..

    ..tho’ i am sure i heard little (after what key said) saying/yelling ‘you’d be better off spending blah blah at the dairy auctions..

    it was while key was speaking – (almost a heckle) and transcribers don’t catch everything – especially in vocally-jumbled situations like that..

    • wow..!..the above was a reply to way back..

      ..comments are having a moment..

    • You may be correct, Phil, but I suspect Little was being facetious because Key had not answered the question. It’s not audible on the replay that I can pick, but I can totally understand if Little took the piss out of Key’s response.

      For the record, it’s not LP policy, at least not in terms of Muldoonist market intervention. However, as I recall, the party’s quite keen on milk in schools, but that’s not quite the same thing.

  38. kiwigunner 40

    Anyone know who pays for meals at Bellamy’s etc? Do the MPs pay this themselves?

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