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Open mike 06/05/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 6th, 2013 - 129 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

129 comments on “Open mike 06/05/2013 ”

  1. Morrissey 1

No. 3: John Key

    Commenting on National Party List lout AARON GILMORE, TV1 Breakfast, Monday 6 May 2013….

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    “Underneath it all he’s a bright guy with ability.”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Some minutes later, on Radio NZ National…..

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    See also…..
    No. 2: Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.” (TV3 News, 24 April 2013) http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-25042013/#comment-624381
    No. 1: Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

    Open mike 19/04/2013

    • Lanthanide 1.1

      “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”

      It’s difficult to tell since you’ve left off the context, but I suspect what Key is saying here is the ‘public we’ as in “we, the public, hold MPs to a higher standard, so Aaron’s behaviour takes on a bit more weight than it might otherwise”.

      If that indeed is what Key was saying, then I don’t think you can call him a liar.

      • Morrissey 1.1.1

        This morning’s “Liars of Our Time” entry brought forth the usual hostile response from our good friend Lanthanide…

        It’s difficult to tell since you’ve left off the context,

        No I have not “left off the context.” Read my post again.

        but I suspect what Key is saying here is the ‘public we’ as in “we, the public, hold MPs to a higher standard, so Aaron’s behaviour takes on a bit more weight than it might otherwise”.

        You’re spinning for John Key. I must say, sadly, that I am not at all surprised to see this. After all, you’ve spun for the Japanese government, a discredited bunch of reprobates which makes John Key look like Honest John the Most Honest Hombre in Honiara.

        If that indeed is what Key was saying, then I don’t think you can call him a liar.

        But then again, you did not think that the Japanese government was lying when it was issuing false statements to the public following the tsunami and nuclear meltdown in March 2011. I’m sure you also chose to believe that halfwit Rob Fyfe, when he went on television to assure New Zealanders that it was perfectly safe to go to Tokyo.

        • Te Reo Putake

          Lanth is correct to say that you left out the context and you are incorrect to see that as spinning for Key.

          You’ve cherry picked one line (“Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”) without any way of identifying who ‘we’ is. Lanth may be correct that ‘we’ refers to the public. Or ‘we’ may mean the National Party in general or the caucus specifically. Without the context, who knows?

          You heard the report, Moz, can you add some more detail as to who ‘we’ is?

          • Morrissey

            Lanth is correct to say that you left out the context and you are incorrect to see that as spinning for Key.

            I did not leave out the context. Key said that on radio, not long after saying on television that the thuggish List lout was “a bright guy with ability.” Key was quite prepared to throw Gilmore to the wolves, by the way: he said that Gilmore was the lowest on the list in parliament, and that he had not distinguished himself in any way from 2008 to 2011. Whoever Key was concerned about defending, it was not Aaron Gilmore.

            You’ve cherry picked one line (“Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”) without any way of identifying who ‘we’ is.

            I did not “cherry pick” his words, I quoted them directly. Sure, I did not include the usual Key mumbling and any of the hedging ums and ahs, but that is what he said.

            Lanth may be correct that ‘we’ refers to the public. Or ‘we’ may mean the National Party in general or the caucus specifically. Without the context, who knows?

            Whether Key was referring to the public or the National Party caucus does not really matter; the fact is we (all of us, the general public and politicians) do NOT hold politicians to a higher standard, or to any standard at all. If we did, John Key, a notorious liar, would not have survived the publication of Nicky Hager’s damning exposé of his close involvement in the Brethren payments, and even if he had, he would have been drummed out of office for repeatedly misleading parliament.

            You heard the report, Moz, can you add some more detail as to who ‘we’ is?

            See above.

            • Te Reo Putake

              “Whether Key was referring to the public or the National Party caucus does not really matter;”

              Er, yes it does. It defines the context in which he made his comment. Lanth was 100% correct and we are none the wiser for you having written the comment in the first place.

              Still, as you yourself admit in this remarkable quote I have just transcribed off the internet:

              “I, Morrissey, must say I am NOT a bright guy with any ability at all. I have spun for the Japanese government, John Key and wolves. I was lying when issuing false statements to the public, I have not distinguished the Brethren in any way. I remain a notorious liar”.

              • Morrissey

                You’re better than that, Te Reo. That was as funny as an anti-gay joke at a Family Fist rally.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Your example’s a bit tortured, Moz. An anti-gay joke at a Family Fist rally would surely be regarded as funny as a fit. Context, eh? You really seem to be struggling with it today.

                  • Morrissey

                    Ouch! You got me there, my friend.

                    By the way, this one always gets a belly laugh with the kiddy-whacking crowd:

                    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

                    God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

                    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

                    That joke has this effect on Bob McCoskrie and friends….

                  • cardassian

                    What’s this Family Fist you guys keep talking about? Used to live near a fisting club but pretty sure it wasn’t for families.

          • Populuxe1

            Nor indeed is there any inconsistancy between the two statements.
            “Underneath it all he’s a bright guy with ability, BUT, yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard”

            • North

              Don’t know what it is about Morrissey that draws energy so, but here’s why I cannot but support him at 1 above:

              From ShonKey Python – “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”

              From TV3 tonight – Slurrin’ (Entitled Bully) Erron has apologised to the PM by text message…….his job is safe.

              Morrissey is pissed off and I don’t blame him one bit. We, the public “we”, we hold MPs to a higher standard.

              Do “we” really ?

              Well ShonKey Python’s obviously not part of the “we”. He talks the talk of “higher standard”. He does not walk the walk of “higher standard”. That makes him a liar in my book.

              A double liar given that the obfuscating weasel words are singularly directed to protecting ShonKey Python’s precarious grip on power. There’s absolutely nothing there about observing or enforcing the higher standard he claims to embrace. Nothing !

              Go Morrissey ! The Beltway Phenomenon rears its sneering head again. It’s not the first time and it won’t be the last. Next time though you’d better address “context” in atrophyingly minute detail my man.

              Given its profound appreciation of all and everything The Beltway was entitled to get your patently obvious point without that. It did not. You’ll accommodate next time OK ?

              • Morrissey

                Beautifully said, my friend. As our colleague Te Reo Putake would say, you’ve nailed it.

        • Lanthanide

          “But then again, you did not think that the Japanese government was lying when it was issuing false statements to the public following the tsunami and nuclear meltdown in March 2011. I’m sure you also chose to believe that halfwit Rob Fyfe, when he went on television to assure New Zealanders that it was perfectly safe to go to Tokyo.”

          Still upset about that, are we?

          Find some evidence that the people who visited Tokyo on those flights have suffered in any way at all. Or, even easier for you, find some evidence that people living in Tokyo have suffered in any way that can be statistically attributed to the nuclear meltdown that occurred at Fukushima.

          Once you have some evidence, you might have some standing on this argument.

          • Rogue Trooper

            probably safer than being a patient at CHCH hospital while contractors track white asbestos everywhere (notified employers, yet ignored for some time).

          • Morrissey

            “But then again, you did not think that the Japanese government was lying when it was issuing false statements to the public following the tsunami and nuclear meltdown in March 2011. I’m sure you also chose to believe that halfwit Rob Fyfe, when he went on television to assure New Zealanders that it was perfectly safe to go to Tokyo.”

            Still upset about that, are we?

            Indeed we are, but we are not one-tenth as upset as the people of Japan were, and are, at the officials who willfully and cynically deceived them.

            Find some evidence that the people who visited Tokyo on those flights have suffered in any way at all.

            I think the documented fact that the Japanese government seriously considered evacuating Tokyo is evidence that Rob Fyfe is not only a damned fool, but an irresponsible and dangerous fool who in any sane and decent society would be shunned like a sheep molester.

            Or, even easier for you, find some evidence that people living in Tokyo have suffered in any way that can be statistically attributed to the nuclear meltdown that occurred at Fukushima.

            Oh, I see what you are driving at! It was a benign and healthful nuclear disaster. Oddly, the scientific community and the government of Japan were not as relaxed and confident about the catastrophe as you pretend to be from the other end of the earth.

            Once you have some evidence, you might have some standing on this argument.

            “This argument”? There is no argument. The Japanese government deceived the general public by issuing statements that said the diametric opposite of what the situation actually was. That has been irrefutably proven, and scores of Japanese officials have made the standard cringing Gomen nasais, although, sadly, not one of them has taken the traditional route of committing hara-kiri. You either know that, and are therefore a liar and a scoundrel of Clintonian dimensions, or you are a bewildered soul who should be given her own show on NewstalkZB immediately.

            • Populuxe1

              Provide just one credible source, just one, that Tokyo was ever dangerous to visit due to the Fukushima meltdown. Just one.

              • Morrissey

                Provide just one credible source, just one, that Tokyo was ever dangerous to visit due to the Fukushima meltdown. Just one.

                How about the leaked internal documents that reveal the government almost called for Tokyo to be evacuated? Tokyo, indeed the whole of the north-east of Japan, was in peril of an almost unimaginable order. The government advisers admit all that in their internal communications, when they are actually honest.

                Or are you going to try to deny THAT, too?

                • Populuxe1

                  That’s not actually an answer. The operative word in your comment being “nearly”. I ‘nearly’ had fish for dinner, but then I decided I prefered chicken instead. I ‘nearly’ missed the bus, but fortunately I didn’t. Or of greater relevance, “X’s grandfather was nearly hit by a mortar in WW2, but wasn’t, and hence X is can do whatever within the law X likes.

                  • Arfamo

                    Technically I think the word at issue is “almost”, not “nearly” – though I agree with the conclusion. 🙂

                  • Professor Longhair

                    “That’s not actually an answer.”

                    Yes, it is, actually. You have been elegantly and thoroughly refuted.

                    Your lame and foolish attempt at syllogism warfare is beneath contempt.

                    • Populuxe1

                      You clearly do not understand what a syllogism is, Boolean or Aristotlean, as that is not what I was trying to do. If there is a particle of sanity in your addled bonce, it may detect that “is”, and “almost” and “nearly” are not the same things and I was drawing attention to the weasel ambiguity of its use. One cannot form a testable proof with “almost” or “nearly”.

            • Lanthanide

              So no evidence then. Just prevaricating bluster.

              • Morrissey

                The only prevarication and bluster around here, as always, is from you, my friend. I would have named poor old “farmboy” as well, but he’s busy with a farm animal.

                • Lanthanide

                  No, not really. I pointed out that without the context of your quote, what Key could have said on his RNZ interview could in fact have been quite valid. As usual Key is bad at grammar and speaking english in general, but it is usually possible to decipher the gist of what he’s trying to say, if you give the whole context of the discussion.

                  Instead of admitting that maybe I was right, you attacked me and brought up very old arguments for which you have no evidence to back up your assertions. It is you who is avoiding the argument with bluster, not me.

      • Murray Olsen 1.1.2

        Are you suggesting that Key was being truthful when he said “Underneath it all he’s a bright guy with ability.”?

        • Te Reo Putake

          I wouldn’t suggest Dunnokeyo was ever truthful, Murray. I think Key lies as a form of self adulation; I lie, they believe me, I am like a God to them.

          • Morrissey

            I don’t think you have quite got it right there, Te Reo. I think Key lies for the same reasons anybody lies: he simply can’t afford to tell the truth. Like that rotten liar Bill Clinton, he will continue to lie even when he knows we know he is lying.

            Maybe, as you say, there is an element of ego involved in it; no doubt he is continually astonished that he has gotten away with it, but that will only increase his contempt for the poor saps who can’t or won’t see him for what he is.

            • Te Reo Putake

              Yep, your last para nails it. He’s probably felt contempt for others pretty much forever, but the blind acceptance of his lies as a politician would be some sort of justification in his mind for his misanthrope.

              btw, my media contribution for the day is this spell check free headline currently running on Stuff:

              PM sign off enables spys

            • Populuxe1

              Hmmm – methinks lying about getting a blow job isn’t really on the same spectrum as lying about a country having WMD as a pretext for an invasion. Or are you just a dessicated prude and that was the only example that came to mind?

              • Morrissey

                Hmmm – methinks lying about getting a blow job isn’t really on the same spectrum as lying about a country having WMD as a pretext for an invasion. Or are you just a dessicated prude and that was the only example that came to mind?

                You hapless fool, I was not even thinking about the blowjobs. (Although I am now, damn you.)

                Clinton’s lies were far more cynical and murderous than that. You really need to do a bit of reading, my friend.

                • Populuxe1

                  Worse than Nixon and Bush Jr?

                  • felix

                    Better be, what with Morrissey saying how Clinton was the worst liar ever, which he never said.

                    Better be worse than Pinocchio too. 🙄

                    • Populuxe1

                      Aw, look who’s worked out emoticons. How sweet. I was merely questioning the validity of comparing Key to Clinton when far more damaging and loathesome US Presidents so easily avail themselves. You may stick your head back up your jaxie now.

                    • felix

                      Really Pop?

                      Cos it looked like you lunged in anger to grasp the wrong end of the stick, and clutching it tightly proceeded to wave it wildly at no-one in particular for no reason at all. As usual.

                      You’re the only commenter I know of here who only ever argues against strawmen and still manages to lose every time.

                      It’s like a sickness with you, Pop. You need help. Seriously.

  2. Rogue Trooper 2

    Unreported Southern Fried Crime; figures.

    • freedom 2.1

      There are many serious problems facing us and I am not meaning any disrespect to those who have suffered. We all know people who have I am sure. Re K2 etc I have never tried the stuff and never will. I am a little fussy about what poisons I partake of. Alcohol, P and K2 (et al) are all dangerous man-made substances that need to be properly dealt with in a non-hysterical manner. But firstly, people should stop calling the man-made poison that people are smoking, synthetic cannabis. It is like putting kerosene in water and calling it Scotch. The cannabis plant (like its cousin hemp) is a safe natural gift whose bounty man has let rot at the behest of power hungry industrialists banksters and chemists.

      Forget for a moment about the Cannabis plant’s recreational properties and just look at the health benefits alone. If you can do so objectively, there is a staggering wealth of information that is growing larger by the day. The benefits of this natural remedy are widespread and of such low risk that any logical discussion supports the use, yet oddly enough big pharma and law enforcement shills still want it demonized and ostracised so the generic myths play out and time slips away accordingly. Which is odd, because if you are one of those who believe that cannabinoids have no medicinal applications, ask yourself why the US Patent office recently granted a patent for the medicinal application of cannabinoids.

      If people want a rational debate then rationality must be applied to all aspects of the topic. Booze would be a good starting point. It is a chemical depressant and is the single most addictive recreational compound ingested by Kiwis (well perhaps second to chocolate) and is arguably responsible for more health and law & order issues than any other product. Correct labelling is essential in discussing the failure that is the War on Drugs.

      • pollywog 2.1.1

        Name and shame whoever makes K2 and all their distributors as well.

        Post pics of them handling and selling the shit wholesale.

        Somebody’s making a killing spraying horse tranquilizer on grass clippings and calling it synthetic cannabis.

        And they soooo shouldn’t be!

        • Lanthanide

          My uncle said that the Lotto shop that is owned and operated by Fresh Choice (supermarket) in Barrington in Christchurch is selling K2.

      • Rogue Trooper 2.1.2

        $ $ $ freedom; that is all that is behind barriers to cannabis (I don’t smoke anywhere near as much as I did when I began commenting, in fact, hardly at all, as, with all things, there may be contra-indications) yet, knowing both it and ethanol well, it is blatently apparent which is the most harmful; ask anybody who has seen an angry drunk at full tilt; not pretty, and in some cases it seems, unforgettable. 🙁

        • Ad

          Your flow isn’t quite as flowy as it was.

          • Rogue Trooper

            Be the emptiness
            Be the stillness
            Watch everything come and go
            Emerging from the source – returning to the source
            This is the way of nature.

            Be the great peace
            Be conscious of the source
            This is the fulfilment of your destiny
            Know that which never changes
            This is awakening.

            -Lao Tzu

      • North 2.1.3

        My there are such strangenesses in this world. Who is the only politician who’s had the directness to address the question ? None other than old Don Brash. And mocked to hell he was for it. By media to whom it was then still is common currency no doubt.

        I agree with you entirely there freedom as to the natural cannabis. Indeed how many of today’s 123 or so district court judges haven’t partaken at some stage in their illustrious lives. I personally know a number who have. Common sense has me suspect dozens more. And parliamentarians of some note, at some stage ? Well……!

        Not to make light of the present dangerous pose we are complicit with, a pose which creates a criminal culture around cannabis. Which but for that pose would not exist in any serious way.

        I still love Helen Clark’s somewhat impatiently expressed line when pressed – “I went to university 30-40 years ago (whatever it was).” “OK ?” Stern glare.

        I reckon we better get Morrissey on to the biggest lie.

  3. Rogue Trooper 3

    Poor vision funding Directors fees = “crisis” looming.

  4. Morrissey 4

    Here’s one Hollywood star who DOES have a brain.

    Anybody who watched that bewildered old wretch Clint Eastwood frothing incoherently at an empty chair last year will realize just how dismal and stupid and embarrassing Hollywood actors can be.

    However, there are some Hollywood stars who actually do bother to read books, who do think seriously about issues. One is Sean Penn, of course. Another is Matt Damon. Here he is dealing to a couple of shallow morons from a Los Angeles outfit called, hilariously, Reason TV….

    • ianmac 4.1

      Yep Morrissey. Very telling.

      • freedom 4.1.1

        love how he calls her out straight away on her ‘facts’
        rumour is, there is actually a full version somewhere but cannot find it

    • North 4.2

      Morrissey, you cause me worry. It’s just that my moral compass seems only rarely not to be configured with your own. Sean Penn. Yeah !!!

      He’d better watch out in the crazy old U S of A though. Senator Joe McCarthy, ably assisted by the then young Robert Kennedy ?

  5. Rogue Trooper 5

    Syria : “a regional crisis”? .If not now, then when?
    Life SupportRequired?
    gives consent!

  6. Morrissey 6

    Can we trust the NZRU medical staff to treat Conrad Smith appropriately?
    Monday 6 May 2013

    Yesterday the Hurricanes star Conrad Smith was knocked out cold for 45 seconds during his team’s loss to the Pretoria Bulls. Incredibly, sports commentators this morning are blithely predicting he’ll be playing again in two weeks. Such moronic talk is exactly what we expect from rugby commentators, but we can surely expect more responsible and intelligent comments from medical men. Right?

    Wrong. This morning on Radio NZ National, Kathryn Ryan interviewed one Ian Murphy, who is billed as the “Medical Director for the NZRU.”

    Dr Murphy made several outlandish statements, but this was perhaps the most outrageously dishonest: “There is no long term evidence that shows there is a link between individual concussions provided you recover fully from them.”

    Although she was clearly concerned about the welfare of the players, Kathryn Ryan did not seem sufficiently well informed on this issue to challenge anything that he said.

    Sadly, we have been through all this horrible business before. Ten years ago, it was another star player who was entrusted to the tender ministrations of the All Blacks’ medical staff…..

    All Blacks’ sawbones defends bogus “neuro-psychometric tests” again
    Sunday 22 June 2003

    Much concern has been expressed lately about the state of health of All Black fullback Leon McDonald, who has pulled out of the team again after severe headaches rendered him incapable of playing. McDonald has suffered a string of quite horrifying head clashes last year and this year, and is still suffering from severe concussion.

    Worryingly, though, the All Black “management” has had Leon McDonald undertake a series of “psychometric tests” (now re-named, interestingly, as “neuro-psychometric tests”) which will, say the All Black “management”, give a more “accurate” assessment of McDonald’s brain injury. These “tests” have been rejected by all reputable health professionals. Just two nights ago, a leading New Zealand neuro-surgeon expressed his contempt for these bogus tests, and his scorn for the “medical staff” who administer them.

    Radio Sport, Thursday 19 June, 7.48 a.m.
    Host Martin Devlin interviews Dr John (“Doc”) Mayhew….

    DEVLIN: Leon McDonald was severely injured LAST YEAR. Did you take that into account?
    DOC MAYHEW: Forget about last year…. Well, obviosly we can’t…. but forget about last year.
    DEVLIN: If a non-athlete like myself came to you and you knew I had just had my THIRD head injury, would you still advise me to play contact sports?
    DOC MAYHEW: [icily] I resent the connotation that I am treating him any differently. He is receiving the best medical treatment…. [continues for an extended time defending his decision to make concussed players do discredited, bogus tests]
    DEVLIN: [grovelling] Oh, John, I didn’t mean for a moment to suggest… [grovels for several minutes]

    It is not known what response the All Blacks’ sawbones has made to recent severe criticism by his medical colleagues.

    • freedom 6.1

      It is not just the regularity, but the severity of the concussion that matters. There is also a big problem with the pros admitting that there most definitely are a finite number of times it is ok to knock someone unconscious, regardless of the severity, that is in the schoolboy game. The management would have to start tracking all of their KO’s. Declarations of previous head injury that is specifically required for insurance purposes would make the viability of the next star making tv campaign less of a sure thing. And those PR guys spend way too much time and money to be let down by some kid becoming a vegetable and interfering with the long term plans of the NZRFU bank accounts.

      • prism 6.1.1

        This reported attitude by the nzrfu reminds me of the boxing promoter that brought a promising fighter from the islands here. This guy fought when he wasn’t well, got knocked around badly and was returned home, mentally unstable and quite often violent in his ordinary life and couldn’t hold down a job. He was supposed to be monitoring his own readiness to fight but it seemed likely that he would not have wanted to look slack by not going through with an arranged fight.

  7. Rogue Trooper 7

    China Superior to US on tackling climate change.

    E.U Blocks imports of Chinese solar panels.

    Palestine and the Chinese

    The Saudis Build tracks in the sand (with China.Civil-like)

    Uncle Sam promotes Sibling rivalry.

  8. One Anonymous Knucklehead 8

    A little light relief on a wet Monday morning. Take a moment to savour McCroskie whining: Family First is to be stripped of charitable status.

    • Rogue Trooper 8.1

      saw that on the news, was gonna link it to the Blind Foundation 😉 , but hay, sometimes the data in the machine gets corrupted.

      “Deregister” =/= “a targeted attempt to shut them up”. These people sure are small thinkers.
      *sigh* Roll on the Catherine Wheel!

    • North 8.2

      How fucking uncharitable is that ?

  9. Ed 9

    Mention of charitable status reminds me of a radio item recently that pointed out that the current government has attached strings to grants to charities binding them not to make certain statements. I can’t recall the details but I got the impression that they were not allowed to criticise the government. There has probably always been pressure not to fund charities that bite the hand that feeds them, but a specific ban on is going another step. I congratulate those charities that have refused. The implication of the radio item was that these gagging agreements are relatively new.

    When a “charity” receives over 90% of funding from the government, I suspect it would be more efficient to have the responsibilities of the charity rolled up in a DHB or WINZ etc – if they are effectively public servants why not recognise them as such – but that would go against the ‘small government’ ideology. Gilmore’s mistake was to be honest in his cups – the art of a true Nat is to be able to continue to lie when pissed.

    • Tim 9.1

      I suspect that item may have been yesterday – Chris Laidlaw with Sandra Gray and her research done with Charlie Farley Sedgewick. The gagging is certainly a disturbing trend – but not surprising when we get anti-democratic gubbamints such as we currently have.
      It was interesting to also hear/see Ramos Horta being interviewed by David Frost yesterday – making the comment in passing (to paraphrase) that the likes of these gaggers end up wondering why it is people eventually react after their basic freedoms are continually and systematically removed. (History won’t be too kind to Soimun Brujizz for example)

  10. Rogue Trooper 10

    Dupe Lick Ation

    Open mike 05/05/2013

  11. felix 11

    National’s appointment processes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esG6tzgSVpA

    • ghostrider888 11.1

      pardies for the repetition, just some etafocaccia while awaiting the contrary..

    • Anne 11.2

      Temptation too much. Emailed clip to Judith Collins. She’ll never see it of course but someone will…

    • ianmac 11.3

      So so apt! Davenport/Devoy sure winners, at least Collins style

    • veutoviper 11.4

      Very funny!

      And good on you, Anne for sending to to Collins.

      I have just read this article on Stuff by John Stringer, a former National candidate in Christchurch, which possibly throws more light on the dilemma for Key re Gilmore.


      The first half of the article/opinion covers the dilemma if Gilmore was thown out as a National Party list member but stayed on as an independent.

      Stringer then raises a further interesting point, although I think he is jumping the gun in claiming that there will be a by-election in Chch:

      “The anomaly of elected “representation” here is that Gilmore came to parliament for a half second term from Wellington (where he lives) as a Christchurch MP on one of National’s regional list places, after the departure of Lockwood Smith.

      There is to be a by-election shortly in Christchurch East, currently held by Hon. Lianne Dalziel, Labour. Due to a rule within National (which is not consistently applied) this is Gilmore’s “seat,” as National list candidates must stand in an electorate.

      This creates a quandary for National. They can hardly field Gilmore in the by-election in the next few months. A National newcomer would not win, or come in on the list. If Gilmore chose not to resign from parliament, National’s next list candidate would not come in, as Gilmore would still hold the parliamentary slot.

      Where this gets sticky is when these machinations affect governing majorities, which are characteristically tiny under MMP. That is John Key’s true dilemma. It is sad that the morality or integrity of this political debacle will be laid aside and determined on the ability to govern rather than the ethics of what is happening. A case of enduring enough bad apples in the basket sufficient to make a palatable apple pie.”

      • Mary 11.4.1

        “This creates a quandary for National. They can hardly field Gilmore in the by-election in the next few months. A National newcomer would not win, or come in on the list. If Gilmore chose not to resign from parliament, National’s next list candidate would not come in, as Gilmore would still hold the parliamentary slot.”

        Surely this can’t be right? Horan became an independent and NZ First got a new list MP. What’s different in Christchurch?

        • alwyn

          That is an interesting theory Mary but “it ain’t necessarily so”.
          Horan is still there and Winnie’s mob did not get a new member.

          • Mary

            Oh, I thought I read somewhere back when it was happening that the next MP on the NZ First’s list entered Parliament. Thanks for sorting that for me.

  12. The actions and behaviour of National MP Aaron Gilmore prove (yet again) that NZ needs an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for MPs?

    Australian MPs have ‘Codes of Conduct’ – both at State and Commonwealth level:


    So – how come New Zealand ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ (along with Denmark and Finland – according to the 2012 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’) does not?


    (Same applies to our NZ Judiciary.
    NZ Judges don’t have an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ either.)

    So – those in NZ responsible for making the law and enforcing the law, don’t have enforceable mechanisms in place to ensure that THEY are held accountable to the law?

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption/ anti-privatisation’ campaigner

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate


    • Tim 12.1

      “….(Same applies to our NZ Judiciary.
      NZ Judges don’t have an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ either.)

      So – those in NZ responsible for making the law and enforcing the law, don’t have enforceable mechanisms in place to ensure that THEY are held accountable to the law?

      Penny Bright
      ‘Anti-corruption/ anti-privatisation’ campaigner…..”

      Continuing in that vein – especially in light of privatisation of prisons, and the trend to outsource various aspects of ‘law enforcement’ – EVEN to the extent of Councils outsourcing parking infringement noticess ……
      WHY are we satisfied with the employment of people with dubious backgrounds acting as ‘law enforcers’ (albeit with private companies whose imperative it is to make a return to shareholders), YET the Judiciary, the Public Service and other agencies of state are subjected to greater scrutiny.
      I’m sure McCroskie would LOVE to be ‘a charitable’ enforcer (just so long as there was no scrutiny).

      I note there seems to have been a bit of a crackdown on ‘bouncers’ – in the sense that they’re required to be identifiable with their wee shoulder photoIDs (though not yet quite to the extent that their employers require uniforms that mimic those of the police with numbered epaulets)

      Not so much scrutiny with private prison warders, parking enforcement officers in the employ of Chubb or whoever the fuck they are these days, guarders of crime scenes, enforcers of red zones (and of course we’ve already seen some of the results of that!), and so on.

      One would think that even the most lowly of ‘law enforcers’ should have to swear an oath and be made aware of what their responsibilities are.
      I’ve spoken to a couple of parking wardens recently (probably about to be replaced, so that their replacements can be paid youth rates) who were completely oblivious to concepts of natural justice, and indeed the law (such as it is).

      Personally I find the whole concept of outsourcing agencies of state where it involves law enforcement a complete abomination

  13. Morrissey 13

No. 4: Willie and J.T.

    Radio Live, Monday 6 May 2013, 2:15 p.m. ….

    WILLIE JACKSON: The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!
    JOHN TAMIHERE: The groups were just GREAT! Out-STANDING!
    WILLIE JACKSON: There’s some INCREDIBLE talent coming through, isn’t there!
    JOHN TAMIHERE: Homai Te Pakipaki—what a JOKE!…

    See also…..
    No. 3: John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”

    Open mike 06/05/2013

    No. 2: Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.” (TV3 News, 24 April 2013) http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-25042013/#comment-624381
    No. 1: Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

    Open mike 19/04/2013

  14. Morrissey 14

    Comedy, chivalry and one mouth-breathing cretin.
    Twenty minutes of Radio Live (Highlights)

    Monday 6 May 2013, beginning 2:20 p.m. ….

    J.T.: What an idiot. What an idiot. Did you hear that?
    WILLIE: What?
    J.T.: You.
    WILLIE: Based on what, FOOL?

    …..Commercial break…..

    WILLIE: All right, Kane, you wanna talk about X-Factor.
    KANE: They need an ugly duckling section. Some of those women are train wrecks to look at. Like that white girl with the glasses, nothing to look at but she has a good set of pipes.
    J.T.: She’s like that girl in Britain.
    WILLIE: Oh yeah, Paul Henry called her a retard.
    J.T.: Yeah, Susan Boyle. She could sing.
    WILLIE: Yeah. Nothing to look at though.

    But the most moronic bit comes next, as a moronic caller from Christchurch, commenting about the Crusaders-Brumbies game, goes on to make a comment about the referee….

    MOUTH-BREATHING CRETIN: He’s a good referee, Joubert. The best in the game.

    WILLIE: [significant pause] Y-y-yeah.

    Radio Live, Monday 6 May 2013, ends at 2:45 p.m. I could stand no more of it.

    • Tim 14.1

      @ Morrisey …
      It gets NZoAir funding right??

      I could only watch its utter and untold beauty, because my sister alerted me to the fact that someone we both knew, with talent had decided to enter and MIGHT be present on that particular night’s episode. (they weren’t)
      I saw these 3 ‘judges’ – all full of pithy comments, plasticised intellect, and quite obviously ‘in touch’ with their most inner feelings – including those feelings that were augmented by red hair dye that had faded pink.
      I thought – well maybe one had the credentials to stand in ‘judgement’ given he had success in a similar forum (and lovely tattoos and a cast of thousands in support). Of course – there was this loving family all rarked up to scream rah rah rah as well. I vaguely recall the guy claiming a ‘LIKE’ of Rythym & Blues too.

      I think I’d rather watch, and give whatever support I can to the local ‘talent’ I (or rather my sister) knows on the marae.

      I also hope that supposedly expert ‘judge’ fucks off back to the GC – or wherever it was from whence he came.

      • Populuxe1 14.1.1

        Not sure what’s more breathtaking – your mysogyny, your racism, your lack of touch with popular culture, but at least you’re an equal opportunity bigot I suppose…

        • Tim

          I won’t bother asking for an explanation if that was directed at me Pop. The labels you throw are an easy disguise for the lack of anything meaningful.

          • Populuxe1

            Well let’s see – you attacked a woman (Ruby Frost) on her appearance and for having “feelings” rather than her ability to judge singing talent (something she would presumably know more about about than you, given her credentials http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Frost ), which is bare-arsed mysogyny at its most textbook. FYI, her hair is died pink, it is not a faded version of the colour of your neck. And your comment about Stan Walker in relation to the GC can only be motivated by generalised stereotypes and cliches in relation to Maori Australians. You, sir, are a pig, and an ignorant one at that.

            • Tim

              You’ll have to have the last word of course – but reread. I’m not referring to Ruby or whoever she is (unless she’s an “it”). The cynical “untold beauty”, etc. refers to the plasticky, tacky, slick production values of the entire programme and the way the thing is more about the ‘judges’ (and their respective egos) than the contestants themselves. Contrived bullshit – not even SKIN deep – slippery moisturised pap (I’m not referring to the people).
              I just caught the end of tonight’s episode – hold your breathe ….. cell phone calls between judges, camera work focussing on Ford labels on the vehicles carrying them and so on.

              You have a funny definition of mysogeny. The fact that I don’t regard Ruby’s comments that I’ve witnessed so far as being valid apparently is mysogenistic. My impressions relate to her comments, NOT her person. I’d get another textbook if I were you.
              As for the GC bit, I won’t even bother since a sizeable proportion of my extended fit the category. I was quite pleased to see Stan win a few years back – it doesn’t mean I have to regard him as a sage or equipped to judge the contestants currently competing, there but for the grace of a God once went He.

              As I say …. you’ll NEED the last word – so go for it please!

              • Tim

                Oh – I see …. I DID refer to red hair dye fading pink. You might be correct Pop. I’m a mysogenist for thinking it might not be her most attractive look.
                GOT me!
                Of course it still doesn’t mean the otherwise attractive woman utters pithy comments and uses rehearsed finger pointing and producer-inspired mechanisms in order to remain pop ….popu….. err popuLAR

                btw. Does Joolie Christie have anything to do with this abomination?
                If she does, I’ve got a very talented Fijian princely fella stifled under the presence of an X-Factor type production team lingering around a certain island (albeit leaving a load of rubbish as their aftermath) to show you

              • Populuxe1

                OK, I will. What are your qualifications? Calling her an “it” is just diging the hole deeper, and I wonder how your extended whanua would react to being told to fuck off back to the GC?

                • Tim

                  Hey – I’M NOT THE ONE CALLING HER AN IT – that’s what your assumption was as you were so ready to associate the comments with her person. The IT is the programme. Otherwise it would have been a her/she had I been referring to ‘her’ – i.e. Ruby the person.

                  So …. OK now have the last word – there’s 4 litres of Pledge ready to make the going easier (as you’ll see below)

  15. farmboy 15

    i for one like willy and j.t this is how normal red blooded males talk this is a conversation in any pub or street between two n.z males.I know you probably hang out with p.c soft handed latte drinking left wingers but dont start every day searching for an issue with shit if you dont like it try z.b

    • The Al1en 15.1

      “i for one like willy and j.t this is how normal red blooded males talk”

      You’re very easily pleased, and no, no it isn’t.

      “I know you probably hang out with p.c soft handed latte drinking left wingers but dont start every day searching for an issue with shit”

      Says the bloke that hangs out all day with shit stinking animals and start every day pushing their shit into a stream.

      Swap the singlet for a polo, red neck. 😆

      • North 15.1.1

        In the context Willie and JT are guffawing wanker bullies. No doubt about it. Handsome remuneration starting at $100K plus (correct me if I’m wrong someone) would virtually demand that delivery. Although as an older fellow who’s seen a bit I gotta say there’s something of a little bit too much of Willie and JT being somewhat “into one another” ??? Excessive mutual verbal slapping ??? Nah, they’re just havin’ every prick on I’m sure.

        As to the real point, surprising ? Not at all. RadioLive is the bugle for that Good Ordinary Joker ShonKey Python to display his facile-ity with the word “munter”. How embarrassing ! You know there’s nothing worse than a non-rugby boy trying too, too hard to be a rugby boy down the rugby club with the real rugby boys bless their hearts. Again, how embarrassing !

        It’s all bullshit ! From bullshitters. The biggest hahaha is that farmboy takes them seriously to the point of defending them. Hahaha !

        Though, in fact, I’m not absolutely sure farmboy ain’t some fairly clever satire going on here.

        • freedom

          wow, nicely done North, something I thought I would never see. You somehow worked farmboy and clever into the same sentence, 😆

          • North

            Like Obama – in the same sentence (1) Thatcher Witch and (2) defender of freedom and liberty ?????????

    • Morrissey 15.2

      farmboy, why don’t you take yourself behind the shed and f*ck a sheep?

      • The Al1en 15.2.1

        That’s baaad.

        Silence of the lambs in welsh is ‘shut up ewe’

        • Morrissey

          I think we could probably say that our rustic friend is “mad about ewe”.

          Or, as the X-Factor‘s hanging judge, Stan Walker, would say, “mad about ewes.”

      • North 15.2.2

        It’s worse than that……..repeated bestial offending………shut up eweS !

        Or alternatively, something I hear not infrequently in the parts I live – “Fuck yous all !”

        Baaaaaaah. You talk bullshit !

        Run bull run !

        Yeah, thanks Forrest.

      • Tim 15.2.3

        And while he’s at it, he should take Populuxe 1 with him. I’ve got a commercial 4 litre container of Pledge with which he can shine his ‘surfaces’, and maybe even use as lube.
        Unfortunately I don’t have any synthetic substance that could assist with his/her substance as a human ‘being’.

    • Populuxe1 15.3

      What, you mean ranting over the top of everyone and not letting them answer?

      • North 15.3.1

        Oh Pops……..go away and say a prayer if it’d make ya feel better. Don’t sad up here. No ones’ listening.

  16. For the public record – I do NOT support the intensification (slummification) of the Auckland region, as outlined in the Daft Unitary Plan.

    Why does all this ‘growth’ have to come to Auckland?

    Who benefits apart from property developers, speculators and overseas investors?

    Where is the ‘NATIONAL’ growth strategy?

    Where did the ‘MILLION’ people living in the Auckland region in thirty years time figure come from?

    WHO says Auckland needs to go ‘up’ or ‘out’?

    Based on what?

    I have made OIA requests to get some replies to these rather important questions.

    Will keep you informed.

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption/anti-privatisation’ campaigner

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 16.1

      You made an OIA request asking “who benefits apart from property developers, speculators and overseas investors?”.

      Who’d you ask?

    • muzza 16.2

      Good questions Penny.

      Will that increase come from internally, through the continued removal of people from the smaller towns and cities, via deliberate underinvestment?

      Goot round the plebs up, get them all in a few places, much easier to control them then they’re not spread all over the place, and it opens up more opportunity for the rich to come and help themselves!

      • Populuxe1 16.2.1

        “through the continued removal of people from the smaller towns and cities, via deliberate underinvestment?”

        And yet largely unsupported by fact. Tauranga has the second fastest population growth in the country, and since the Christchurch earthquake smaller South Island towns have now stabilised with population increases anywhere up to ten percent. Very small communities admittedly are shrinking, but as 85.7 percent of the New Zealand population is urbanised, a process that goes back to WW2, that’s hardly surprising.

        • Colonial Viper

          Tauranga a moneyed retirees paradise…

          But yeah, the ongoing catabolism of Christchurch has been very helpful to neighbouring small towns.

          If this is the kind of “growth” you’re looking for.

          • Populuxe1

            Not really, but it’s quite a different state of affairs to Muzza’s asserion.

    • vto 16.3

      Well that unitary plan makes sense doesn’t it?

      I mean, either you Aucklanders have a city like, well, Auckland but much bigger in area (gawd, imagine the driving), or you have a city like so many in Europe with higher density in a small area.

      I don’t understand it. Kiwis love going to Eurpoe and ooohing and aaaahing at the lovely cities and towns, yet they would rather have mcmansion suburbia for themselves to live in……..


    • Populuxe1 16.4

      Which is ironic, given that you refuse to pay your rates.

      • North 16.4.1

        So what dickhead ? She’s exposing herself to process in the making of a point. Far too little of it in Planet ShonKey Python in my view.

        Ya never gonna reform her baby ‘cos she got balls unlike ShonKey Python cargo-cultists like you.

        • Populuxe1

          Are you out of your tiny mind? ShonKey Python cargo-cultist? Key is a colossal dickhead and destroying this country! If I am any sort of tory, I am very much of the wet, progressive, red and decidedly nationalist kind you cretin.

          • freedom

            you got any ideas then on how NZ gets rid of him ?
            because right now I think this country wants as many options as it can get

            • Populuxe1

              Don’t vote for him? But seriously, Labour needs to offer a credible opposition platform and deal to all the Neoliberal Lite rot in its ranks. The Greens need to advance some actual strategic policy beyond handwavium, warm fuzzy abstract nouns and asking Clint what he thinks. New Zealand First actually offers some really compelling policy if the eccentricities of its caucus can be reined in.

          • North

            Well you’re not what we want then mate, are you ? You were in line for that 2 hundy sinecure until you started talkin’ dirty like that !

            Further Pops…….I think you “misunderestimate” the term “cargo-cult”. It’s a very powerful thing. It’s what got Shonkey Python elected, twice. Which says piss all for New Zealanders in the very small sector of our voting population responsible for that.

            I assume from the thrust of your comment you’re not a Nat/Act voter then.

  17. logie97 17

    Messrs Finlayson and Collins are now expressing misgivings about the development of the website “Judge the judges”. A bit rich really because it is their party and partners like ACT, that have pushed this line and pandered to the likes of the SST – faux outrage ne c’est pas?

    • North 17.1

      Just wait for the said website to do a trawling back through the historic sentencing decisions of retired District Court judge Barry Lovegrove who on Campbell the other night made it very clear that appointment processes in New Zealand are now attended by no consideration outside of jobs for the bought boys/girls.

      Makes the appointee controllable. Especially when the appointee knows in his/her heart that they wouldn’t be pulling their $200K whatever, except for the patronage.

      Loyalty amongst thieves is an age-old thing preceding even Westminster.

      • North 17.1.1

        Stoked the fire for easy morning ignition in the not-winterless North. Off to bed.

        That Garth McVictim is nought more than a big-noting racist arsehole is sickeningly demonstrated by the support which he and SST gave to that psycho’ who stabbed to death the little Maori fulla Pihema.

        To death ! Get that ? To death. For tagging. Nay, for suspicion of tagging. For Fuck’s Sake ! The psycho’ served 2 years from recollection. McVictim was all sadness for the psycho’.

        What might that young fulla have amounted to ? What beautiful kids might he have had ? But for being struck down and life taken by a racist arsehole. Don’t give two fucks whether he would have amounted to “anything” anyway. His life was taken and McVictim, racist, rationalised it.

        A plague on you Garth ! And tearful aroha for that boy’s family. Never rely on loud mouthed bastards like McVictim strutting around with the signature briefcase in and out of Koru clubs all over the show. No morals but lots of “look at me look at me” dining out.

        Piece of vainglorious shit !

  18. Te Reo Putake 18

    The Mexican Aaron Gilmore:


  19. xtasy 19

    Radio New Zealand National’s ‘Windows on the World’ program tonight presented a program taken over from the BBC, in which Peter Day, basically rolled out the newest welfare regime approach for sick in the UK.

    It is by now nothing new to the better informed, that they have abolished “sick notes” and introduced “fit notes”, all more or less a result of changes brought in there under the auspices of one Professor Mansel Aylward, former Chief Medical Officer for the Department of Work and Pension, and now head of a special department at Cardiff University, established with the help of controversial Unum insurance corporation, to promote and develop “new ways” to get sick and disabled back into work by abusing the so-called “bio psycho social model” for assessments and rehabilitation.

    Not surprisingly Dame Carol Black (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_M._Black) is mentioned as an advocate to get sick and disabled back into work as soon as possible, same as Welfare Reform Minister Lord Freud (former banker, with no former experience in social matters).


    Now while National Radio is happy to broadcast this “politically correctly wrapped” program to “inform” us of all the “good” and “sincere” intentions, how come that criticism about welfare reforms there, raised here also, is not broadcast about at all??? “Helping” and “supporting” sick back into work they claim. Is that the true agenda though?

    Is this perhaps not rather a softening up agenda also by Radio New Zealand, now towing the government line, to “ready” us for the welfare onslaught that Paula Bennett has prepared to start in July? I have a terrible gut feeling, that the truth is once again not openly reported and discussed.

    The so gently spoken “gentleman” “Lord Freud” is better known through such stories, I must say:

    We also know what our Minister for “Social Development” has stated:

    And we know by now, who tells us more about what really goes on under supposed “independent” assessors of sick and disabled in the UK:

    COST SAVING is the AGENDA, and pressuring sick and disabled into open employment, that is what the experiences in the UK tell us!!!

    • xtasy 19.1

      Just one further revealing statement or article on the bizarre work capacity assessment regime now common in the UK, and according to Paula Bennett also planned as the design framework to what WINZ will introduce here:


      Professor Mansel Aylward will be addressing a medical practitioner conference in New Zealand in the coming weeks or months. So he seems to come here quite frequently now, and perhaps he has set up office or home here, while advising Bennett and the NatACT “natzi” government on how to deal to sick and disabled (supposed “malingerers”) living on benefits.

      See details here:

      He will be speaking on:

      “Health Beyond Health: Another Cardinal Role for General Practice
      The holistic approach embracing the social determinants of health and the importance of work”

      Main Session, Friday, 21 June 2013, Start 09:25am, Duration: 25mins – Baytrust

      P.S.: Like every year, Dr Bratt (WINZ Principal Health Advisor) will speak and/or hold one of his now well known “presentations” there also, likely to again compare “benefit dependence” to “drug dependence”.

      The AGENDA is in FULL SWING!

      Thanks Paula Bennett !

  20. xtasy 20

    There was a startling frank comment made by Sean Plunket, new talk-back host on Radio Live (Mon. to Fri. until midday), when talking with John Tamihere just before lunchtime on Monday (today), 06 May 2013.

    He confessed that he got his job at Radio New Zealand many years ago, because Prime Minister Jim Bolger wanting him to get it! As soon as he got the confirmation that he got the job, he even received a congratulation from the then PM, he said on air!

    So if that is how New Zealand “public broadcasting” functions, there can be no surprises at the lack of real, investigative journalism, the lack of truly revealing news, the lack of hard questioning of our politicians and the lack of top quality current affairs or documentaries!

    As this country is so firmly in the control of the Old Boys and Old Girls Networks, it must be presumed that not much has changed at Radio New Zealand or TVNZ.

    The private media care for their own “priorities” of course, to get reporters, moderators and editors that attract high viewer and listener ratings, that present hitting headlines and snippets of infotainment “news”, so that advertisers fill their coffers. No surprises there.

    Thank goodness for a few blogs that present the other side to stories, otherwise we would not know there is a world out there beyond the Tasman, or there are people out there, that are actually NOT living in a supposed “brighter future”.

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