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Open mike 06/05/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 6th, 2016 - 151 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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151 comments on “Open mike 06/05/2016 ”

  1. Paul 2

    The planet’s climate has changed.
    When will the corporate media in New Zealand explain the weather by saying the words climate change?

    As well as the droughts in India and Cambodia,

    There is drought in Vietnam

    and Thailand

    and Ethiopia

    and Malawi and Zimbabwe

    and Venezuela

    and North Korea

    and Zambia

    and Haiti

    and Canada

    and the U.S.

    and Indonesia

    and Micronesia

    and Australia

    [Just to point out that putting a pile of links in a comment will mean the comment hits moderation and it’ll just sit there if no mods are around. Best avoided if possible] – Bill

    • Bill 2.1

      You missed the Brazil drought that’s just coming to an end now….

      Was listening to something about superdroughts and their predicted prevalence – prevalence expected to increase.

      On the same piece there was something touched on that I’d heard of before to do with the jet stream. Essentially, with the arctic warming, the ‘atmosphere’ becomes thicker (higher), meaning the gradient between the poles and the equator lessens and the jet-stream then tends to ‘slow’ and meander more than flow.

      As weather fronts are tucked in behind the traversing jet stream, and that traverse slows up, weather gets ‘stuck’, meaning more prolonged periods of the same weather. Not good.

      • weka 2.1.1

        Many of those countries are experiencing drought because they are fucking with the catchment and groundwater in order to make money. Humans have lived in very dry climates for a long long time, and they do so by working with nature not exploiting it.

        I’m not saying climate change isn’t creating serious problems with regards to water. But those problems aren’t visible in the places where humans are fucking with the catchment and dealing with the human-made problems is a prerequisite to learning how to adapt to the CC ones (leaving aside they’re all human made).

        If we look at Canterbury for instance, the droughts being talked about there are a direct result of deforestation, draining wetlands, overgrazing, rabbits, and more recently stealing water from the aquifers, and industrial dairying. All those things exist independently of climate change, and climate change is making them more impactful because instead of happening every 20 years they’re happening multiple years in a row (we can pretty much assume drought is a constant on the east coast of the SI now). If we stopped doing all that shit, climate change effects in Canterbury would look completely different, even with the issue of glacier retreat.

        As it is, we can’t even begin to see how to respond to something as serious as glacier retreat and what it will mean, because we still think the problem is how are we going to keep irrigating dairy farms? Oh, yeah, let’s put in some big catchment dams, or pipe water over from the West Coast ffs. Meanwhile, we keep doing the same things that are creating the droughts in the first place.

        Another way to understand this is to look at to what extent climate change is affecting intact native ecosystems. Hard to do in Canterbury, because they hardly have any left, and those that are there are isolated unit rather than being part of the support from wider catchment protection, but if the droughts were mainly due to CC we’d be seeing native forests dying.

        The places I am most familiar with are NZ, the US and Australia. But I’m guessing that there are similar issues in less developped countries because they’re being forced to do things like cash crop, and/or they’re prevented from doing sustainable landcare because of war, poverty, colonisation etc. The point I am making is that we could also be putting effort into supporting those countries to return to traditional landcare systems, because that will give them the best chance. Needless to say alongside the West powering down and doing everything it can to prevent the shit storm from being any worse than it already is.

        • Bill

          chasing… 😉

          I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but here’s an example with regards, more or less, intact native eco-systems – the Amazon. It’s fucked.


          There are, no doubt, some traditional land care systems that have something to offer, but those traditional land care systems worked when applied to a set of climatic conditions we’re in the process of leaving behind. There are areas (I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess at the percentage) where all the cards are going to be off the table because of changed conditions.

          What worked in Israel (say) won’t necessarily work in (say) California, because aside from rainfall or snow fall, there are the impacts or effects of topography and geology.

          • weka

            There are significant parts of the Amazon that have been modified. I took the first hit from your link and saw this photo. Not an intact ecosystem.


            There are, no doubt, some traditional land care systems that have something to offer, but those traditional land care systems worked when applied to a set of climatic conditions we’re in the process of leaving behind. There are areas (I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess at the percentage) where all the cards are going to be off the table because of changed conditions.

            Are you talking about the future? Because I’m responding to the idea that we are currently having all these droughts due to climate change. Of course CC, but hugely significant is the man-made aspects of those droughts, and big scarey stories about CC (read nature) causing drought are actually misleading. What we are experiencing now is because of our own stupidity in land management and economics.

            As for the future, I don’t know what you mean by all cards off the table. Do you mean people won’t be able to live there? Have a look at the Jordan, which is the driest place on earth per head of population. People have lived there for a very long time.

            What worked in Israel (say) won’t necessarily work in (say) California, because aside from rainfall or snow fall, there are the impacts or effects of topography and geology.

            Of course. Sustainable land management designs around the local land base, which includes the geography, climate, people etc. That’s the point, we need to be taking our cues from nature not economics.

            • Bill

              I didn’t say it was an intact eco system. I said it’s relatively intact.

              I don’t think you’ll find any scientific study slating the 2005 drought back to local human activity. It was a consequence of remote human activity – climate change.

              Are there water shortages caused by water mismanagement? Yes.

              Would better water management avert water shortages? Not necessarily – and I mean that in terms of the here and now as well as the future. Climate driven drought events (such as the Amazon one) can render water management systems irrelevant. The western Amazon had no significant human pressure on its water table and tanked.

              California can have all the water management it wants, but if/when the snow pack disappears (arguably, California is on the cusp of not having a snow pack now), so is the water that might otherwise have been managed.

              It’s simply not true (carbon emissions aside) that “What we are experiencing now is because of our own stupidity in land management and economics.” I mean, there is that, but there is also climate change. And I can’t see how it’s misleading to say that climate change is causing drought…and yes, some of the effects of some of those droughts might have been mitigated with better water management regimes.

              • weka

                I don’t think you’ll find any scientific study slating the 2005 drought back to local human activity. It was a consequence of remote human activity – climate change.

                Just as well I didn’t say that either. I think you are missing my point. I took the first hit from your google search and there was no way to tell what was going on. So when a news article claims that x about CC induced drought, we aren’t getting the full picture. Same with when media in NZ talk about the droughts in NZ being caused by weather events. Droughts in NZ for the most part of due to land management. That doesn’t preclude CC effects as well, but it means that native ecosystems are still resilient and so are many organic farms compared to conventional.

                Would better water management avert water shortages? Not necessarily – and I mean that in terms of the here and now as well as the future. Climate driven drought events (such as the Amazon one) can render water management systems irrelevant. The western Amazon had no significant human pressure on its water table and tanked.

                Ok, so let’s leave the Amazon out of it, let’s assume it is predominantly CC. Let’s look at the other ones. Texas, California, Canterbury. All those catchments have drought due to mismanagement and all of those will avert the worst of water shortages if they reverted to sustainable land management.

                California can have all the water management it wants, but if/when the snow pack disappears (arguably, California is on the cusp of not having a snow pack now), so is the water that might otherwise have been managed.

                Like I said, people have lived with far less water. We know how to do this. This isn’t to say that snow pack and glacier issues aren’t serious. It’s to say that there is a massive (as in all the difference in the world) difference between having reduced inflow into a catchment that is otherwise sound compared to one that is still being fucked over.

                It’s simply not true (carbon emissions aside) that “What we are experiencing now is because of our own stupidity in land management and economics.” I mean, there is that, but there is also climate change. And I can’t see how it’s misleading to say that climate change is causing drought…and yes, some of the effects of some of those droughts might have been mitigated with better water management regimes.

                Ok, let’s look really close to home, because this is easy to see and understand. When you deforest, the water table drops. The land dries out, and then the soil is less able to hold water in it. Intact systems hold a huge amount of water in the land itself, it’s not all in the glaciers or rivers or lakes. When you remove the land’s ability to hold water, you get drought. Yes rainfall is an issue too, and so is river flow, but the land drying out was already happening before the rainfall lowered. This is what I mean by farmer-induced drought. You can add CC on top of that, but the baseline is that the land is being made dry by us here on the ground.

                Once that happens, it becomes very hard for a catchment to recover. In NZ overgrazing is an issue, sheep, cattle, rabbits were doing this long before diarying. On top of the dry land you now have no chance of natural systems of plant succession, which are the things that build soil fertility. And soil fertility is critical to holding water in the land. This is all cyclical. Now we have a lot of land in the SI that is like this and the only way you can farm it is to irrigate, or have very low stock levels that nevertheless continue the degradation.

                Once you get to this point, you are dependent on artificial fertiliser and irrigation. The land is no longer fertile. This is why some CC and PO people freak out about us not being able to feed ourselves, because they perceive us as having no way of growing food without fossil fuels. It’s not true, but without fossil fuels you have to have intact ecosystems.

                (all the catchments in NZ are recoverable btw, it’s not too late)

                Then you have the water table itself. I don’t know what is happening in NZ, but we know that in the US they’ve taken so much out that rivers no longer reach the sea. So on top of all the things I’ve just described, the water table is disappearing too.

                The phenomena you are talking about come after all of that. Glaciers, snow melt, rainfall will all recharge the aquifers or not due to CC. But if the land itself is already dried out and beyond recovery, then the lack of recharge becomes somewhat of a moot point. If we think that a river running dry is an issue because of low rainfall, and this matters because we can no longer irrigate the land to grow food for the supply chain, we are decades behind the ball. The water shortage started when the land itself could no longer hold water.

                Back to Paul’s list. Dropping a big list of scarey we’re going to run out of water links is a strategy for scaring people into reducing emissions. I don’t think it’s our smartest move. People will change when they can see a way out. Regenerative agriculture is one of those key ways out. If we don’t see the underlying farmer-induced drought and change that as well, it probably won’t matter if the glaciers melt.

                Let me put all this another way. We have two droughts going on, each as serious as the other.

                • Bill

                  We have two droughts going on, each as serious as the other.

                  The terminology’s the crux of the ‘talking past’ that’s going on I think.

                  I’d rephrase your comment as we have droughts and we also have avoidable water shortages caused by water mismanagement of one type or another.

                  As far as my thinking goes, drought is entirely weather or climate related.

                  Water shortages through mis-management aren’t drought or drought inducing…they just mean that not enough water is available from the land because (insert human fuck up option of your choice).

                  Good water management might mean that when a drought hits, its effects could be mitigated.

                  Bad water management might mean that not enough water is available regardless of whether drought conditions are prevalent or not.

                  edit. As for Pauls list. I have no idea about farming or water strategies in the places mentioned. But if the monsoons don’t come on time, or if there’s been no rain for months or years…then it doesn’t really matter what peasant farmers do or what water systems they have. And yes, I’m picking that many being hit are peasant farmers who work very much in tune with seasons and expected resources.

        • Draco T Bastard


          Except for this bit:

          The point I am making is that we could also be putting effort into supporting those countries to return to traditional landcare systems

          Traditional land care systems aren’t actually sustainable with the level of population that we have today.

          • weka

            I think it depends on where you are talking about. Feeding New York city with traditional landcare, probably not possible. A village in India that was feeding itself up until the last 50 or hundred years when it was forced into cash cropping? yes they can probably feed themselves using what they have if the greedy people go out of the way. NZ is never going to go back to being hunter/gatherers, but we have a low enough population to use a hybrid of traditional and modern sustainable practice.

            Permaculture, which is one of the foremost tools we have for sustainable land management, comes directly from traditional practices. It’s been adapted for the modern world and the Western mind, and put into a system that can be applied across many different places.

            • Draco T Bastard

              I think it depends on where you are talking about.

              To some degree. NZ is probably capable of supporting our own population sustainably. But it’s a little bit iffy to say that India is. India isn’t just a small little village. It’s over a billion people with advanced cities and industry all existing in a limited physical space. The probability is that traditional farming won’t make them any more sustainable than what they are now.

        • John Shears

          +1 Weka,
          I believe it could be quite practical to divert water from the Landsborough into Lake Ohau and thus supplement the existing Mackenzie Basin Hydro complex.

          Of course it would cost money but once completed would supply water for years to come.
          Interesting that we have had no problem drilling not one but two tunnels for the Manapouri scheme and most of that power is used to supply the Tiwai Point smelter.
          The other means of utilising the West Coast rainfall is to develop a series of small remote controlled hydro stations from one end of the coast to the other. This is what happens in France, for example, a nation that has to depend on Nuclear Power for it;s main source but gains a very useful percentage of their energy from these small and often remote hydro stations. in the order of 25GW
          France also understands that hydro sourced energy reserves can be saved by offering it at reduced rates in off peak times to domestic users, so that clothes washing and water heating are programmed for overnight not at peak times.

          Curiously the generation of electricity in France is the responsibility of EDF yep that’s right Electricity of France and the distribution is by a subsidiary ERDF yep and again you are right it is a state organisation although there are a few small private suppliers.
          Some Standardistas will be able to remember when the same was the case in New Zealand, NZED.

    • Agora 2.2

      Too many links mate. I’ve been guilty of it myself while staring at a screen – but your argument is better served with something short, simple, and to the point .. backed up by a link to other sources, eg. deeperweb.com

    • save NZ 2.3

      @Paul – no wonder tourism’s up. you can buy 25 years waters rights for $500 p/a here if you have the right connections…

  2. lprent 3

    Out of space on the 120GB root SSD drive. Explains why the comments weren’t saving and the posts weren’t posting yesterday morning and this morning. The hourly backups were running out of room overnight.

    Shuffled some files off to the 8TB raid system. Root is now 75% full. I will have a look to see what kind of crap is accumulating there between the court dates dealing with the arseholes attacking the site.

  3. Rosemary McDonald 4

    Genius from Toby Manhire….because, I don’t know about you guys, I could do with a laugh.


    “Toby Manhire: Dancing with the Cops and other reality TV ideas

    The Koru Hour, or Nobody Puts Johnny in the Corner

    Rare, Medium and Weldon

    New Zealand’s Next Top Fraudster

    Squeal of Fortune

    Dancing with the Cops”

    Go on…have a giggle…

  4. Penny Bright 5

    I have a ‘live’ complaint to OMSA (Online Media Standards Authority) about recent posts made about me by Cameron Slater on his WhaleOil blog which are currently going through their ‘due process’.

    I have been informed by OSMA that I should expect an outcome next week.

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

    • Puckish Rogue 5.1

      When/if it goes against you will you post the details here?

      • adam 5.1.1

        Wow, just wow – the stalking does not stop with you does it Puckish Rouge.

        • Puckish Rogue

          I freely admit that I have never stalked Penny Bright however if you’re going to post on here then I feel its an open invitation for questions

          • adam

            But you supported those that did.

            • Puckish Rogue

              You can do better then that, that was just plain lazy. Try again please.

              • adam

                Lazy, yeah sure. Your happy to undermine Penny any way you can, and if your hard right mates stalk her, you are happy with that. What a nice guy you are.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Not really, I just found her extremely long winded posts boring as she’d virtually never come back and answer questions (from left posters I might add) and the way she treated this site like it was her own personal soapbox is just rude (I don’t tell admin how to run this site because its their site to do with as they please)

                  • adam

                    You have a scroll mouse. Do what most of us do, scroll past. She has been pulled up a few times by Iprent and other

                  • adam

                    You have a scroll mouse. Do what most of us do to the likes of International Rescue or Alwyn, scroll past.

                    She has been pulled up a few times by Iprent and other moderators. And has changed how she posts, which is way more readable.

                    You should have stomped on the stalking though, we can agree on that?

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      I’m not a stalker, I’ve never stalked anyone so I have no idea what you’re on about.

                  • reason

                    When are you going to do the simple math sums I’ve posted up for you to do Puckish ………….. my little golem clown.

                    2.2 billion dollars ( fraud by johns john on behalf Aussie banks )

                    divided by 22 million ( total welfare fraud ) = how many years .

                    Puckish wont answer though because a 2.2 billion dollar fraud against New Zealand by John Keys self appointed judge is a no no subject for round mouth Puck .

                    Stalking a woman on the internet who has embarrassed John Key ( northland election trouncing & well done Penny 🙂 ) is our creepy golem clown Puckish’s mission at the moment.

                    The clowns an embarrassment to himself …………… Wayne mapp thinks he’s great though, and uses veet to show his appreciation ……. plus Puck told him it makes him look ‘bigger’.

                    • Chuck

                      I made the mistake of reading your post reason. Please post reference to the “$2.2 billion fraud by Johns John?? and how this relates to John Key…by that I mean a real reference from a court or similar.

                      And further how has Penny embarrassed anyone other than her self?

                    • reason

                      Chuck you made the mistake of making an idiotic post to me ……

                      John Shewan tried to screw New Zealand out of 2.2 billion dollars in a tax fraud he designed on behalf of the Aussie banks …..

                      “Westpac has lost its $918m tax battle with Inland Revenue.”

                      “Evidence in the seven-week case showed Westpac’s tax adviser, John Shewan (now chairman of PricewaterhouseCoopers), advised not paying a rate below 15 per cent but in the end the amount he advised was 6.5 per cent. ”

                      “The IRD introduced evidence in the Westpac case quoting PricewaterhouseCoopers chairman John Shewan advising the bank earlier this decade that it should try to declare a tax rate close to that of its competitors, and that actual tax paid should be at least 6 per cent, compared to the corporate tax rate of 30 per cent.”

                      So john john has been found guilty ( or his clients were ), in a court of law.

                      Which leads back to my question chuck ….. or is it chump?.

                      Johns john had an attempted theft of 2.2 Billion from New Zealand.

                      This one piece of rich white trash temporarily succeeded in his fraud against NZ.

                      So the question is …. Again:

                      2.2 billion theft by johns john versus 22 million Total benefit theft in the year 2010./

                      How many years of benefit fraud would it take to reach the total that John Shewan attempted to steal ??????.

                      John key shoulder tapped Shewan to be the judge of nationals tax haven rules/setup .

                      Is John Key going to shoulder tap Clint Rickards to investigate claims of sexual abuse by the police ….

                      Or mike sabin to look at low conviction rates for some crimes ….

                      Because thats the standards I’m seeing.

                      Glad to explain for you 🙂

                    • Chuck

                      You had me confused by the Johns John reference…but I can now see your humor in it.

                      Basically, reason, you have gone off on some la la land tangent.

                      The words you have used “fraud” “steal” “theft” imply this was a criminal investigation / court case. Nothing can be further from the truth.

                    • reason

                      No chucky ……………… there was a 2.2 Billion dollar FINE in a court of law with a High court judge and everything …………. you can call that la la land if you want …… but thats just you avoiding the issue and refusing to do the math sum I have set ….,,.

                      ‘tax haven/ theft by the rich’ supporting trolls, like yourself, do not want the simple fact of how much the rich are stealing to become common knowledge.

                      I’ve distilled it down ‘Hooten’ style but unlike him I’m not peddling lies ……………. I’m showing a simple truth.

                      2.2 Billion attempted theft/fraud by Johns john ( Shewan )

                      22 million dollars total welfare fraud in 2010

                      How many years of welfare fraud to equal the amount Johns john attempted to steal//// ………… it’ all effects the governments ‘budget’ in exactly the same way ………… but on a vastly different scale.

                      And if you cant do maths, perhaps your opinion on whether a man behind such a HUGE theft from New Zealand Government revenue should be the judge on New Zealands tax haven legalization.

                      johns john attempted to steal a lot hip operations, cancer drugs, money from police budgets and all the other ‘socialist’ things our government spends our tax money on …………

                      The fact that when a court of law stopped this Shewan crime and made them pay, putting the budget into surplus that year is not la la land stuff either ……….

                      p.s I’d reply to chuck but that option does not show on the webpage I see, and which is why I’m replying to myself

            • weka

              “But you supported those that did.”

              Can you please explain? Stalking is a serious accusation.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Don’t bother wasting your time, he either won’t explain or he’ll go off on a tangent and then claim some sort of victory

              • adam

                Yesterday or the day before Penny Bright brought up the fact after making a complaint about Whale oil, goons from that web site had been stalking her. Puckish Rouges response was she had broken the law so she basically deserved it.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Leaving that aside, what exactly have done to be labelled a stalker? Ask a question and post a youtube clip that she was on…

                  Have a look at this and see if you learn anything:

                  • adam

                    And still you won’t say stalking women is evil and wrong. It gets worse, you won’t even condemn your stalker mates.

                    Instead you carry on with the personal attacks on me. What a winner you are.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Theres a lot things I think are evil and wrong but I don’t proclaim it because I don’t need to (stalking is bad m’kay)

                      However something I also find evil and wrong is falsely accusing someone

                    • adam

                      Penny was stalked and you acted superior, and when I pulled you up on it, you acted like a glib juvenile.

                      Now you’ are doing indignation. Man engage with real people. It’s never acceptable to be casual about violence to women. It’s never acceptable, just because we are on a different divide politically to be casual about stalking.

                      If I offended you, then good. Learn something from this.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      “It seems that Cameron Slater has ‘sources’ who are, in my view, effectively stalking me, snooping around my property, taking photos and apparently then lying about what they are seeing.”

                      Thats what Penny wrote from the link, theres no proof of stalking at all but there is a lot of opinion stated as fact

                      If she feels she is being stalked then I’d suggest she go to the police and/or lawyer and get some legal advice

                      But her saying it doesn’t make it so, as I said before its a very bad thing to go around accusing people of something adam, it makes it harder for people to be believed when they do need to report something

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      That’s nice dear 🙂

                    • adam

                      It feels pointless with you sometimes, every time I think you may not be a complete cretin, you prove me wrong.

                  • whateva next?

                    You are a bag of (foul) wind PR (look up PR in health terms while you are at it). Winding people up is not a skill, just a sign you don’t have enough in your life.

                • weka

                  Thanks Adam, do you have a link?

  5. The Chairman 7

    This left wing comedian is a bit of a laugh


  6. save NZ 8


    “National on top for party donations

    Labour received almost $280,000 and the Green Party just over $400,000.

    ACT took in just over $162,000 and New Zealand First almost $80,000.

    The Maori Party received just over $28,000 and United Future did not get any donations last year.

    The donations returns are for the 2015 calendar year.

    The donations are miniscule to what the parties received during the 2014 election year. In that year, National received almost $4 million, Labour $940,000 and the Greens received $970,000.”

    • Puckish Rogue 8.1

      Labour took in nearly $280 000 and the Greens just over $400 000…no wonder labour are in the crapper, let me guess there’ll be calls for parliamentary funded campaigns to, you know level the playing fields

      • Sabine 8.1.1


        well, you know. Nothing better then money form the one that owns you and your ministers. 🙂

        ” A Chinese-owned milk powder company reprimanded by Prime Minister John Key for using his photo without permission in its advertising in 2012 has donated $25,400 to the National Party.

        Donation returns released yesterday show National’s total of $1.4 million included $25,338 in five separate donations from GMP Dairy, a Chinese-owned milk powder company based in Auckland.

        In 2012, GMP Dairy subsidiary Cowala used a photo of Mr Key posing with its products in advertising in China after Mr Key opened its Auckland factory that year. That prompted Mr Key to write to the company to complain. A spokeswoman said it “implies the company’s product has an endorsement from the Prime Minister which it does not.”

        At the time the company’s chief executive Karl Ye said the advert was created by one store and it had been asked to remove it. The 2012 incident has clearly been forgiven: National Ministers Steven Joyce and Bill English have both attended subsequent product launches for the company, as well as Party President Peter Goodfellow.

        GMP Dairy also paid for National MPs Jami-Lee Ross and Stuart Smith to travel to China earlier this year.”

        or as the old saying goes…… who’s your Daddy?

        • Puckish Rogue

          I think the people in charge of Labour should sit down a take a serious look at themselves and ask how it is that the Greens can raise a considerable amount of money more and what can Labour do to emulate it

          • adam

            You are scared, you went straight for concern trolling.

            • Puckish Rogue

              I’m scared because National took in 1.4 million and the next largest party took in 280 000, behind the Greens?

              I’m sure there’s some sort of logic to your reasoning but I can’t work it out

              • adam

                Scared much, straight for the ad hominem.

                But we are in that sort of debate. I call you a habitual liar, whose latest claim to infamy is to justify the stalking of women, and even in normal conversation can’t see they spin everything.

                Always with the fake concern, and lets not forget the default pity party you fall into, when someone calls you on you spin and lies.

                Oh and the not trying, just the repeating of sad lines over and over to make yourself feel good, that you support this countries most divisive government in history. Who’s mad lust for power, has meant they will use any weapon at their disposal to hold onto power. Which I must say you prove to me, and I’m sure many others, each and every day when you comment here.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  I’ll say this for you, you have a very high opinion of yourself (which is good of course) but, like a lot of the left on here, you fall prey to hyperbole

                  “this countries most divisive government in history”

                  I’m sure the fourth Labour government (you remember Rogernomics and all that), the second National government (before my time but I’ve heard the Vietnam War brought out a few protestors) or how about the third National government (Springbok tour and all that) but no this government is the most divisive

                  • adam

                    Thanks for proving my point.

                    Anyway to hold on to power, with any spin possible.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Your point being that you’re melodramatic or your point being you say I’m scared but you never actually say what I’m scared of?

                    • adam

                      Poor Puckish, spinning so hard.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Do me a favour adam, save this thread so you can repost it after the 2017 election

          • Lanthanide

            I am wondering if the donations for the Greens includes their MP tithing. I believe they all pay 10% of their parliamentary salary to the party as a donation, and I don’t think Labour does that.

            But perhaps Labour should, even if it were 5% that would make a big difference to the party coffers.

            • Puckish Rogue

              If that’s the case it appears to be working well for the Greens and it could be argued that as an MP you benefit greatly from the party (more so as a list mp) so paying the party some money isn’t a bad idea

              • McFlock


                somehow I’m not sure that the Greens do it because they believe in user-pays for public office.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Well ok I agree with you on that but I meant more that rather then pay for the office you’re holding you’re repaying what the party has done for you but I get your point

                  • McFlock

                    ISTR an impression that it was because the Greens saw the parliamentary paycheques and decided they should practise what they preached when it came to tax rates for those on higher incomes.

            • save NZ

              Maybe Labour should consider tithing. Get away from neoliberal “this is my money to do as I please salary as MP for the party’ and instead think I will chip in a donation per week to try to get my party over the line.

              The Natz just give out tenders, contracts and awards for donations, which is why they got 1.4m. In most countries this is called corruption. Still waiting for the enquiry about 7.5m Scenic Hotels corporate welfare ‘aid’ after their $101,000 donation to the National party.

              Labour has some sort of ethics on the donations and won’t take from Sky City and dodgy Chinese money. So maybe low donations also mean they are honest.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Labour has some sort of ethics on the donations and won’t take from Sky City and dodgy Chinese money.

                – Probably has more to do with the Labour party sh**ing on them from a great height recently

                So maybe low donations also mean they are honest

                – Now that genuinely did make me snort out loud 🙂

          • alwyn

            The Green Party are rather like New Zealand First. They have a compulsory levy on all the MPs. I say “rather like” because Winnie excludes himself from the rule. Got to pay for his fags and booze after all.
            They will probably call it voluntary of course. I’m sure they call it a “donation”. If you don’t volunteer you go to position 73 on the list.

            I’m actually surprised that it is legal. Most countries have laws that mean you can’t insist on people having to pay a levy in order to get a paid position in any Government organisation. Sounds very close to extortion doesn’t it?

            What Labour do of course is smear anyone who donates to National.

            Remember back in 2005 when an person who emigrated to New Zealand from India, and was at the time living in the tax haven of Monaco and hadn’t lived in New Zealand for about 40 years gave $500,000 to the Labour Party?
            That was just peachy of course. They even gave him an award in the ONZ for his generosity.

            • McFlock

              was that the guy who expected to be able to bribe Labour, and when he didn’t get his monaco bauble then promised to spend 100mil for poor kids provided NZ elected national?

              And a few years later the nats gave him a bigger ONZ award than Labour did lol

              • alwyn

                I believe the Monaco bauble attempt was after he paid Winnies legal expenses.
                Expecting anything out of Winston after doing him a very expensive favour is dreaming.
                Actually expecting gratitude out of any politician is just wishful thinking. Their attitude doesn’t include gratitude. It is only “What are you going to do for me today?”

                • McFlock

                  It must be depressing to have your opinion of humanity.

                  And, indeed, to have a moral compass that seems to equate “bribing someone” with “earning their gratitude”.

                  • alwyn

                    Your own viewpoint seems to be rather jaundiced.
                    It was you, after all, who is claiming that Glenn’s gift to the Labour Party was offering a bribe. I think he really did think at the time that Clark was a good PM.
                    Very badly mistaken though, wasn’t he? Do you remember when he was at a function to celebrate his giving money to establish a Business School. Helen Clark was also present. If Glenn looked like getting anywhere near her so that she might have to greet him Trevor Mallard would intercept him and keep him away from her.
                    Poor Owen. As I say, he discovered that politicians have no lasting gratitude

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, sorry, I assumed that your “They even gave him an award in the ONZ for his generosity” was suggesting that the award was linked to his donation to the Labour party, hence terming it a “bribe”.

                      At least he got a better gong from national, in gratitude for the promise to pay 100million if national got elected.

              • Chuck

                Owen Glenn paid for Winston’s legal fees, in turn Winston was going to put in a good word with the Labour government of the day for the Monaco position.

                However it all turned to custard when Winston held up his now famous “NO” sign and the resulting investigation.

                Interesting side note…Winston used his “lawyer and trust account” so to keep a Chinese wall between the $100k from Glenn, and Winston ability to deny any knowledge of the “gift”.

            • Lanthanide

              “Most countries have laws that mean you can’t insist on people having to pay a levy in order to get a paid position in any Government organisation. ”

              You don’t seem to have a very clear idea about what a political party is, and how they are governed, do you?

              Parties have constitutions that set up their rules and regulations. if the constitution requires tithing, then if you don’t do it, you’re in breach and the disciplinary provisions kick in, which would almost certainly have an expulsion clause that can be used when necessary.

              • alwyn

                I’m sure they do, have rules that is.
                As a matter of fact of course they could only kick an MP who refused to pay up out of their caucus (and the list next election). They certainly couldn’t kick them out of Parliament could they?

                However the rules of a political party, in spite of what Cunliffe claimed about his secret trust to support his leadership campaign, cannot override the law of the land.

                You can be an MP but it’ll cost you doesn’t have a good ring to it.
                And yes I know that they all do it. Calling it a “donation” is just trying to cover it up.

                • Lanthanide

                  “You can be an MP but it’ll cost you doesn’t have a good ring to it.”

                  No, it’s “if you want to be a member of this club, it’ll cost you”. Just like people pay memberships for all sorts of clubs.

                  The greens only levie the charge against people who have attained a certain position within their club (MP) – a position that itself comes with a pretty decent salary package, and also a hell of a lot of hard work.

                  • alwyn

                    ” Just like people pay memberships for all sorts of clubs.”
                    As I said, they just word it so it sounds better.
                    You wouldn’t be the fund raiser for a political party would you?
                    You can certainly word these things in an innocent way.

      • integralenz 8.1.2

        Another predictably tedious response from the Permanent Resident troll. I take it Puke-ish, that you approve of Jamie-Lee’s latest endeavours. Wake up and smell the odour. Meantime, spare us your apologist nonsense.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Have they broken any laws? If they have slam them if they haven’t then its not important

          • integralenz

            Work it out for yourself – “Bribery – the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official or other person in charge of a public or legal duty” Black’s Law Dictionary.

            • Puckish Rogue

              Should be pretty easy to bring a case against them, its not like there hasn’t been precedent before

          • Lanthanide


            You don’t care what anyone does, as long as it doesn’t break any laws?

            • Puckish Rogue

              More or less, I mean not going to go into a case by case scenario of every possible incident that could happen

      • save NZ 8.1.3

        For once i agree with you there Punkish Rogue.

        What the F?

        Labour need to work out if their ‘broad church’, non committal and convaluted policy approach is working. I personally want Labour to succeed but Kiwi’s need more than Nat Lite policy but a vision – like Savage to transform NZ.

        In order to do that they must address 21 century challenges like globalism, neoliberalism, inequality and environmental degradation. Personally was heartened they had the UBI that showed they were prepared to think about new ideas and have put Cunliffe onto the panama papers, so maybe they are turning a corner.

        But if Winston can do so well with only $80k in donations it means that money does not buy votes in this country for everyone, policy does and political astutness.

        • Puckish Rogue

          If we liken it to commerce then its obvious, from the amount of money coming in, that one party on the left is doing a better job of convincing people that its message is worth putting your hands into your pockets

          and yeah money does help but its not the only thing, if it was Colin Craig would be in parliament (got close), Act would have more than one or two MPs and well the less said about KDC the better

          But in regards to Labour and the Greens then Labour should be looking closely at what the Greens are doing (like that hasn’t been said on here in one way or another) and try to emulate them

          Like staying on the same basic message, standing for something etc etc

        • Sabine

          fuck it really this is getting tedious.

          Labour this, and Labour that, and half of the people commenting here are essentially only saying I wont give to Labour because (insert past grievance of the 80’s or something like tht ), and they won’t vote for Labour because (insert past grievance of the 80″s or something like that), and then they complain that a. not enough voters are voting for Labour and b. that they don’t rake in cash, but that they would vote for Labour or give to Labour if Labour would just do what they want them to do, never mind that they will never really do what you want them to do, cause purity and such.

          Seriously, go find a party you can be happy with, and than at least you guys could stop whinging about all the things Labour does wrong.

          Go find a party that does what you want, if that party does not exist, join one that comes close, and fund that fucking party, or create your own party, fundraise for it and find members and voters for it.

          The system is called MMP, Labour does not need to best fucking anyone, they need to be able to work with the other parties, and that would be the best thing we could hope for. People in Parliament that work together instead of that current rent a parliament crowd that literally is funded by China and any other country or corporation that would like to buy something of them.

          • b waghorn

            Yeah mf ers what she said.

          • Whateva Next

            Beautiful, thankyou Sabine:

            “Go find a party that does what you want, if that party does not exist, join one that comes close, and fund that fucking party, or create your own party, fundraise for it and find members and voters for it.

            The system is called MMP, Labour does not need to best fucking anyone, they need to be able to work with the other parties, and that would be the best thing we could hope for. People in Parliament that work together instead of that current rent a parliament crowd that literally is funded by China and any other country or corporation that would like to buy something of them.”

      • joe90 8.1.4

        let me guess there’ll be calls for parliamentary funded campaigns to, you know level the playing fields

        Nah, too early. We haven’t reached cash for access/policy levels of financial shenanigans yet. But let’s not mention cabinet club…..

    • Chuck 8.2

      Labour need to entice back Mike Williams to fill the donation coffers again.

  7. whispering kate 9

    The latest brain wave from the Government to allow electric cars to clog up the busways doesn’t make sense. In Auckland the Northern Busway is very successful so it should be left alone. Why doesn’t the Government just half the cost of the Registration instead, or find another incentive for purchasers of electric cars. I was of the opinion that the Government ran the main transit routes and the council funded and built the local roads, what about all the bus lanes on these local roads, doesn’t the council have any say in this. The Northern Busway was a fantastic initiative to ease the gridlock for the Northern Motorway – why on earth now go and clog it up with cars – just doesn’t make sense to me. I am all for electric cars, the more we have the better but I just think this is an ingenious way to encourage the purchase of these cars.

    • Sabine 9.1

      more pissing away money to those that don’t need it.

      a. who could afford an electric car tomorrow?
      b. about 5% of the population?

      but they would then get to use the buslane, not pay road user charges and so on and so on and so on.

      while we increase fees for people that drive old cars – again, we must make up for the money that we just gave away to those that are in the needy 5 % highest income group. Cause they never have enough money for that Moet and Ferrari.

      Don’t you feel special now?

      • alwyn 9.1.1

        But Sabine, you have just totally rubbished the New Zealand Green Party policy.
        The only thing that is not being offered by the Government is a subsidy on electric cars, and a promise that the Government buy lots and lots of them.

        The Greens were also proposing to provide taxpayer funded charging stations.
        And to give electric vehicles free use of the roads.
        Lovely big subsidies.

        • Draco T Bastard

          you have just totally rubbished the New Zealand Green Party policy.

          You’re either purposefully misrepresenting what the Green Party said or you’re stupid.

          “Offering access to bus lanes, and announcing a series of reviews, investigations and ‘coordinated activities’, isn’t going to move New Zealand to a low-carbon economy.

          Seems fairly bloody obvious what was meant. So obvious even a stupid person would get it.

          • alwyn

            I see someone from a pressure group “Generation Zero” is attacking the Government for possibly allowing electric vehicles into the bus lanes.
            His argument is that they are quiet, cyclists won’t realise they are there and the cyclists will therefore get killed

            I hope he takes his case up with the Green acolytes in Wellington. They want to retain all the trolley buses and then replace all the other buses with electric ones.
            Here (in Wellington) cyclists are allowed to use the bus lanes. He will obviously be opposed to this as the buses are quiet and will also bump off all the people on their bikes.

            The trolley buses actually are dangerous. Pedestrians don’t hear them and are much more likely to step in front of one than they are to do it with a diesel bus. Any time you read about a pedestrian being hit by a bus in the city it turns out to be a trolley bus rather than a diesel.
            Get rid of the trolley buses I say. Save the lives of pedestrians and cyclists.
            I call on the “caring” Greens to push my campaign and get rid of the trolley bus dinosaurs.

            • Tricledrown

              Alwhynger your out of Date.
              The trolley buses are to be retired replaced with electric buses hopefully you will be visiting Wellington soon.

              • alwyn

                That is the current proposal.
                It is, however NOT what the Green Party want.
                Have a look at what the Trekkie Hughes wants.
                Have a look at what is going to happen to the trolley buses. They are still going to be there. They are still going to be silent, and just a deadly.
                They are just going to stop using overhead wires.
                The trolley buses are dangerous because they are silent. The converted ones are going to be just as bad.
                Perhaps you should visit Wellington. I live here.

                • dv

                  Been run down often Alwyn?

                  • alwyn

                    No, but I know someone who was. Survived luckily.

                    I have on the other hand been knocked down twice by cyclists at Oriental Bay. They are also silent, and dangerous. They ride, often at high speed, on the footpath. It is legal there but not safe.

                    They come up behind you on the footpath, pass very close to the pedestrian and would never consider ringing, or even having, a bell to give a warning. Most Wellington cyclists are bloody idiots.

                    • dv

                      In Tokyo the electric cars I have seen/heard have a ‘rattle’ built in so you can hear them

                      The cyclists in Tokyo ride on the footpath, and they have and use a bell and also are considerate.

      • Bill 9.1.2

        Well Sabine, since (if Pareto’s rule holds) about 5 or 10% of New Zealanders (the wealthiest) are responsible for about 50% of NZ emissions, I’d say give them the fucking cars. In the future they can whine about the show wondering whatever happened to their glorious me, me society.

    • Lindsey 9.2

      Yes, nothing like giving one rich old git in a Prius the same access as a bus with 50 or 60 people in it to demonstrate your contempt for public transport.

      • Macro 9.2.1

        Not sure that Prius qualify – we are talking Leaf and Tesla. You can buy a reasonable late model Prius for around $10,000. Ok that is way more than many people can afford for a car I know – but it is not in the $30,000+ range for an EV of similar age.
        Prius while substantially reducing emissions for a similar sized car (around 4.4L/100km) is a hybrid. It runs a petrol engine at a low speed when needed to charge a much smaller battery than a pure EV.
        I agree however with your sentiments wrt to bus lanes. The Govt needs to place far more emphasis on developing public transport providing better, more, and faster services so that cars become unnecessary and undesirable for the majority of personal travel. The current congested state of Aucklands roads is now a case in point. People are forced to use cars because the public transport is so poor, and expensive.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.3

      Why doesn’t the Government just half the cost of the Registration instead, or find another incentive for purchasers of electric cars.

      Because they’re trying to stop people using buses and other public transport. There’s nowhere near as much profit to be made from people using public transport.

      • whispering kate 9.3.1

        Its because they live in Wellington most of the year and haven’t a bloody clue how clogged up our motorways are here in Auckland – the buslanes help people to keep off the roads and the Gov. has to be as thick as bat s…. encouraging even more cars – Sabine is correct, how many people can afford electric cars anyway – we seriously need a good network of trains, light rail and buslanes – it will not be that many years before AK will be totally gridlocked and how will commerce bring in the tax dollars for the gov. then when it’s at a stand still – as I said thick as bat s….. and wilfully wrecking the environment for future generations to boot.

        I wish the government would keep its sticky beak out of AK – the council is trying to encourage public transport and at least is trying to see ahead for the future – this gov. is absolutely bloody useless in everything it does.

        • Macro

          Yeah Auckland is near gridlock now – I live in Thames after living in Auckland for 25 years. Last week I had to travel up to Auckland. It took as much time to travel from Pt Chev to Manakau along the southern motorway around 2pm as it did to travel the rest of the journey.

        • Macro

          yeah Its pretty much gridlocked already – took an hour or more to travel from western springs to Manakau down the Southern Motorway the other day around 2pm! Bumper to bumper – stop start the whole way.

        • Draco T Bastard

          this gov. is absolutely bloody useless in everything it does.

          No, this government is achieving what it set out to do which is more profits for rich people. This invariably costs everyone else more. In context of transport that’s more in cars, more in fuel, more road taxes, more death due to the increased pollution and more time due to the grid lock.

          Thing is, that grid lock also increases profits for the rich because of more car and fuel sales. Cars are the perfect example of why the profit drive produces the worst possible outcomes for society.

          • whispering kate

            What sort of a proficient, professional company/association/Government only works successfully for the 1% of people/clients – in the private sector every one practicing these sort of work efficiencies would go broke. I stand by my words, the Government are bloody useless. They are killing off the golden egg – Auckland which gives the largest tax take – companies will end up at a stand still and still this Government cannot see it. Ever see trucks trying to get through to the port or to go south/north on the motorways, they waste more time sitting in their cabs frustrated as hell. Useless, incompetent, visionless idiots, the whole lot of the cabinet.

            • Draco T Bastard

              What sort of a proficient, professional company/association/Government only works successfully for the 1% of people/clients – in the private sector every one practicing these sort of work efficiencies would go broke.

              They do go broke and then their bought and paid for governments come along and bail them out.

              They are killing off the golden egg

              Yes but they don’t see it that way. All they see is rich people getting richer and thus the economy must be booming. They don’t see the poverty that they create nor the inefficiency as they give jobs to their mates that they then massively over pay.

              It’s all about the profits and it causes massive inefficiency and over use of resources just so that a few people can have more money and power.

              It’s not incompetence. They’re achieving what they want to achieve. Sure, it will eventually destroy the society and will kill a lot of people but a few people got richer and that’s all that matters to them.


  8. adam 10

    The treatment of Willie was bloody disgraceful. If you are a social democrat a question for you – after watching this do you still think that privilege will give up an inch of power? Because the contempt I saw on display here for Maori, is the same contempt I see from this lot towards working stiffs, mums, the young, Pacific, and anyone else who is not a part of there club. And power folks is something privilege enjoy more than you realise.


  9. Puckish Rogue 11


    – Well heres something I’m sure we can all agree is long overdue

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      Yep, I’d probably agree with that decision. When are they going to apply it to company directors?

      • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1

        No need to, private companies can make their own decisions because we, fortunately, do not live in a communist country

        • Draco T Bastard

          The same conflict of interest exists when a person is director of two or more companies. Engaging in such conflicts of interest is simply corruption and we need to be getting rid of corruption and not supporting it.

          And it’s not about being communist but about supporting ethical behaviour.

          • Puckish Rogue

            Be honest Draco you’d prefer to see NZ become a communist country

            • Draco T Bastard

              WTF has that got to do with the discussion of the ongoing corruption of our business community?

  10. greywarshark 12

    Robinson helicopters in NZ. How long have we heard reports about them not being used according to manufacturers instructions?
    Decades? Now reports are official. The head of the firm is coming to NZ to see what our flyboys are doing to the reputation of his firm’s product.

    Of course nothing to worry about officially. We don’t need regulations and bothersome checks, they just get in the way of doing business. (Like having OIA investigations instead of fast tracking the purchase of tracts of our land, 10 farms in Northland for $42 million, Lachlan? station for $82 million?)

    We are slaphappy about everything these days, preferring to paper over the cracks, fill them with silly putty, say that makes me uncomfortable to families of dead workers, deny compensation to the injured, and generally make people afraid of eating bananas in case someone slips on a skin. At the end of the day, problems can be smoothed away with money or derision, and then it’s back to BAU.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      We are slaphappy about everything these days

      Well, not everything. Beneficiaries are obviously all criminals and need to be made to pay.


  11. greywarshark 13

    It is time we got back to the old slogan “Make love, not war.”
    If having extra marital affairs was the worst thing that anyone did, life wouldn’t be so saddening. And with luck, no-one wiould be dead at the end.

    • Macro 13.1

      I had to shake my head at this stupidity…
      And the traditional churches wonder why their attendances are declining.

  12. Sabine 14


    13 years in the US American Gulag.

    C’mon all yer senators and wanna be’s

    let’s make US America Great Again.

  13. weka 15

    A Canterbury man who flew a drone over a forest fire has been found guilty of breaching new Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) rules surrounding drone operation.



  14. Steve Reeves 16

    Looks like John Key may have to chose between Whitney and Obama!!! 🙂


    • Draco T Bastard 16.1

      He’ll side with the tax dodgers while making noises about clamping down on tax dodging.

      And, of course, Obama hasn’t said anything about clamping down on internal tax evasion.

  15. Draco T Bastard 17

    The Bailouts Were for the Banks: Study Confirms Rescue Loans Didn’t Serve Greeks

    A new study offers more confirmation that the so-called bailout packages the European Union (EU) and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) delivered to Greece primarily served European banks rather than the Greek people.

    Contrary to widely held beliefs,” ESMT states, of the €215.9 billion (roughly $246 billion), less than 5 percent went to the Greek fiscal budget. The other 95 percent of the funds “disbursed to Greece since the start of the financial crisis as loans from the bailout mechanism has been directed toward saving the European banks,” Ekathimerini reports.

    All of the bailouts since the start of the GFC have been to protect the rich from their own actions. Quite simply, the worlds wealthy should have become destitute back in 2008. Instead, the poor were taxed to prop up their failures.

    Those failures continue today and the poor are still propping them up.

  16. Whateva Next 18

    Crikey, Mediaworks being punished ??? or I am just being reactionary now?http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/303203/reserve-bank-bans-mediaworks-from-press-conferences

    • alwyn 18.1

      And a bloody good thing too.
      They have a lock up before these announcements, and the budget as well, so that the media outlets can get a pre-release look at what is going to be announced. The purpose is to allow them time to understand what is going on so that they can comment accurately on what is being announced. No communication with anyone outside is allowed. Mediaworks ignored it, posted a draft article back to the office and the people there happily disseminated it.
      That could have been an enormously valuable piece of news as they had early knowledge of an unexpected cut in the OCR.
      I would kick them out of the pre-budget lock up as well. Stuff them.

      • Tricledrown 18.1.1

        But their a private company and SStephen Joyce has shares in it.
        Everything in the business side is always better than public broadcasting.
        Weldon was in charge he was the best boss ever a creative mind he sacked all the high paid journalists and put check out operators day labourers into the newsroom alwhynger,
        I thought you would be right up their with Glucina.

        • alwyn

          “SStephen Joyce has shares in it”.
          That is completely false. Why do you feel the need to lie about things like this?
          For your education, although I do not expect you to remember, here is a bit of history.

          Stephen Joyce founded Radio Works.
          Radio Works was bought out completely with the new owner taking over 72% in May 2000 and the remaining 28% in January 2001. I believe it was a hostile takeover.
          He has had no financial interest since that date. Clear?
          The group of companies now called MediaWorks has gone through various restructurings, changes of ownership and receiverships but none of them have had anything to do with him.
          To repeat. Why do you feel the need to lie about him?

  17. save NZ 19

    From No right turn… What a joke!
    A poor choice

    David Cameron is holding an anti-corruption summit in London next week, aimed at “step[ping] up global action to expose, punish and drive out corruption in all walks of life”. New Zealand’s representative to this summit? Apparently its Judith Collins:
    Surely not. Judith Collins picked to be NZ’s rep at David Cameron’s anti-corruption summit in London on 12 May? #Oravida

    — David Shearer (@DavidShearerMP) April 23, 2016

    This would be the same Judith Collins dubbed the “Minister of Corruption” over her dodgy Oravida dealings. Is John Key taking the piss, or did he take the title literally as an endorsement rather than a disqualification? Or did they just view the summit as an opportunity for someone to get a free taxpayer-funded holiday to London, and it was Collins’ turn at the trough? Either way, its a perfect sign of just how little National cares about corruption, tax evasion and international money-laundering, and how unlikely we are to see any real progress on tax cheating from them.

  18. Bill 20

    I think Irvine Welsh has kiind of nailed it.


    Labour were first replaced as party of the left in Scotland by SNP.
    Now they are being replaced as party of the unionist right by Tories.
    — Irvine Welsh (@IrvineWelsh) May 6, 2016


    At the time of posting this, Labour have held one seat in Scotland and lost 4. (They’ll pick up more from the list seats)

    The Tories have won two, which is double what they had.

    Less than 1% separates Labour and the Tories with just under half of the vote in – 22.1 and 22.8% (if I’m reading things right).


  19. whateva next? 21

    Corbyn has nailed it here, talking about the media obsession (driven by Crosby Textor manipulation no doubt) with his leadership over the “grotesque inequality” we have to tolerate whilst the 1% continue to take from the rest of us, good man:


    We are lucky enough someone out there has exposed the corruption in the “Panama Papers” and Key’s response is to spend more millions on trying to prevent exposure of corruption, calling it “cyber crime” ……WHAT? who are you trying to kid Mr.Key? you do realise Planet Key is only pretend don’t you? We live on the same planet, and you do not need such wealth at our expense.

  20. Chris 22


    So that’s 900 times some shopkeeper decides they don’t like the look of someone outside their shop?

  21. Macro 23


    Prime Minister John Key said donations to National should not prevent the party’s MPs from being engaged.

    “It’s quite possible that an individual company that gives a donation is also the sort of situation where an MP goes and has some involvement, does something in a business or looks at something because of the varied nature of the varied trips that they do.

    “But it doesn’t stop someone, you don’t have a conflict of interest by nature because of that.”

    He wouldn’t know what a conflict of interest was if he fell over it!

    A situation that has the potential to undermine the impartiality of a person because of the possibility of a clash between the person’s self-interest and professional interest or public interest.

    Accepting donations from a Company and then accepting their free air travel and accommodation to go and pimp for them over and above similar NZ products is not a conflict of interest as an MP for NZ???

  22. maui 25

    Looks like this shit is real now:

    A Mexican construction tycoon dubbed the ‘Duke of Influence’ joined a rush of foreign money into tax-free New Zealand trusts.

    Juan Armando Hinojosa Cantu, who built his fortune from billions of dollars in Mexican government contracts, was investigated for lavish housing deals with Mexican political figures.

    On July 1 last year, Cantu’s Miami lawyer said his client had “circa $US100 million” to put into three New Zealand trusts

    Maltese investors who had been turned away from nine banks in the Caribbean, Miami and Panama eventually found a home for their money in New Zealand trusts.

    Demand for New Zealand trusts went into overdrive late last year with Mossack Fonseca staff in Panama urging New Zealand staff to “chase the money”.

  23. Tautoko Mangō Mata 26

    Veteran cartoonist fired for pro-farmer, anti-Big Ag piece

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