Open mike 06/07/2015

37 comments on “Open mike 06/07/2015 ”

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1. Vaughan Little 1

   6 July 2015 at 6:47 am

   pebbles hooper shouldn’t lose her job at the herald. she fucked up, almost certainly realizes why her tweet was wrong, and should be given the space to grow and move on. generosity of spirit: you can’t have an open society without it.

   it’s clearly not conducive to a vibrant society to have people losing their jobs over single tweets. it’s necessary for especially young people to feel that they can put their ideas out there in faith that the worst thing that will happen is that they’ll be respectfully, or at the very least, briskly corrected.

   so here are some things to keep in mind when figuring out how to deal with someone when they say or do something egregious: how old are they? how can their life lived to date be used to interpret their comments/behaviour? (i.e., a scientist making arguably sexist comments in korea deserves a bit more respect if his career and other stuff he’s said show that he’s not a sexist monster) in similar vein, is this part of a pattern showing more serious problems?
   • whateva next? 1.1

     6 July 2015 at 7:27 am

     As I have just commented on the relevant thread, I have no particular issue with “Pebbles”, sadly there are plenty of likeminded “Pebbles” out there, but….to pay and broadcast her opinions ?????? Tells us alot about media.
   • b waghorn 1.2

     6 July 2015 at 7:33 am

     No they should sack her she’s 25 ,she is in a position of influence and she made it clear at the start of her tweet she new what she was doing was wrong and did it any way.
   • weka 1.3

     6 July 2015 at 10:04 am

     I would hazard a guess that the thing Pebbles has learnt in all this is to now express one’s fucked up perspectives in public. Except she probably doesn’t yet realise how fucked up her perspective is. It’s not like her apology acknowledged the problems with her thinking (she apologies for offending people, which just means she shouldn’t have said it outloud).

     You missed some pertinent things off the the list of things to keep in mind. Waghorn gets it: Pebbles is in a position of power and therefore is more accountable than if it were you or me.

     I don’t care if she loses her job or not, but I do care that The Herald takes some responsibility for its appalling contributions to culture. If they need to fire her to do that, then she can suck it up and take it as a learning experience. Given her world views already expressed in public, it’s hard to see how her staying on is going to be anything other than more of the same.
   • greywarshark 1.4

     6 July 2015 at 10:49 am

     Vaughan
     I object to the scions of the wealthy condemning and sneering at the hoi polloi in a leading newspaper. And I don’t think your objective view is at all justified.

     It was a disgrace by the Herald to provide space for such subjective, bigoted stuff. I wouldn’t like them to give space to other sneering malign people like skinheads. She is in the same vein just from another wealth class. Leave her to join the internet set of self-centred malcontents and find a place there away from responsible media outlets.
     • Morrissey 1.4.1

       6 July 2015 at 11:05 am

       Is anyone surprised that Pebbles Hooper is shallow and devoid of compassion? After all, her mother is Denise L’Estrange-Corbet…

       http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-06092014/#comment-881331
       http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-04072014/#comment-844334
       http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17052013/#comment-634499

       Imagine the tone and calibre of dinner table discussions at their house. Poor old Pebbles never had a chance.
   • TeWhareWhero 1.5

     6 July 2015 at 11:09 am

     If Pebbles Hooper loses her job it should be because she’s not a journalist, is not clever, insightful or witty. Her clumsily cruel tweet about Cindy George is evidence of that. But, if people push for Hooper to be sacked because of a tweet made in her own name, they risk legitimising the sacking of the likes of Scott McIntyre.

     “The insertion of the outrageous and shocking to leaven the usual fare of banal trivia is standard stuff for today’s gossip columnists – filling the void where intelligence, insight and wit ought to be – but the comment and the attitudes it betrayed went beyond even our modern pale. Whilst I, like a lot of others, condemn Hooper for being an air-headed, stony-hearted scribbler who thought it was acceptable to sharpen her claws on a dead woman, I reserve a greater opprobrium for those who encourage her view of herself as remarkable and entitled. “
     • Molly 1.5.1

       6 July 2015 at 12:46 pm

       Agree, TeWhareWhero.

       Alongside Mike Hosking, Bob Jones, Deborah Hill-Cone etc, the Herald’s choice for opinion writers seems to reflect a certain propensity to encourage the voices of the ill-informed, illogical and illiterate. Any calls for Pebbles Hooper to be let go from the Herald, fit into the general call for better quality opinion and information from that publication.

       That perspective is true regardless of her personal tweet or not.

       I would prefer that people show their true thoughts (ill-considered) though they are – and calls for her firing for this reason – when her job is nothing to do with compassion, empathy or considered thinking – is inappropriate.

       Ask the Herald to stop using her because her regular columns contribute nothing to their publication or the public’s interest.

       Defend her right to publicly say what she is feeling – and then have to defend it – when the public reacts.
     • Tracey 1.5.2

       6 July 2015 at 1:32 pm

       Agree
   • Tracey 1.6

     6 July 2015 at 1:31 pm

     it’s also a sign of

     1. no training for the job
     2.no code of ethics either in existence or learned/taught
     3. hiring people based on who their parents are rather than their actually ability
     4. having a job based on gossip
2. CnrJoe 2

   6 July 2015 at 7:11 am

   Really interesting this. More to teamkey. ..

   http://politik.co.nz/en/content/politics/313/IS-THIS-THE-YEAR'S-MOST-IMPORTANT-POLITICAL-SPEECH-Bill-English-John-Key.htm
   • Charles 2.1

     6 July 2015 at 10:24 am

     Have you read his full speech? What a twisted manipulated mysogynist prejudiced sanctimonious untrue load of evil crap.

     Higher thinkers like to say evil doesn’t exist, that it’s just a person seperated from their soul; that, underneath, they’re just human and don’t know what they’re doing – like children picking their noses till it bleeds. I guess it’s to avoid seperating a person from their humanity, and encouraging the descent into the kind of political eradication programs that no one needs to repeat.

     But when you see it in action, hear it spelled out, the lies, the deliberate attempt to inflict pain, to destroy other people and the environment they live in, and the glee and satisfaction it gives the person who understands the ridiculously small material return for the effort, it’s really hard not to point and say, “Look, that’s evil right there…. right…. fucking… there.”

     Bill English knows what he’s doing and why. Using every capability of his adult intellect, he freely admits it. I dont suggest we line them up and shoot them; hang them from a telegraph wire or any other historically effective method; but it’s evil none-the-less. They should be nowhere near a position to influence policy. And if Australian business leaders sat there and lapped it up: Fuck the concerns and whinging of businesses. Fuck the whole economic attitude.

     “The public think we know, or at least they think we’ve got good intentions.”

     …with regard to “social investment in society’s problems” instead of government intervention, or in his case, government exacerbation*. He intends to do that with many things. A method he calls “radical incrementalism” or somesuch – excusing the fact most of his support that he intends to “take along with him” have a abhorence of radicalism of any kind. Greenpeace are “radicals” they shrill – look at the signs they have, too loud, too forceful, too much action!

     The public thinks they know, he says, they think they know, but my god they do not. All they know is what keeps them seeing whatever it is that makes them feel secure in their own minds: The Pebbles Hooper Effect…

     *He’s so smug about it, he contradicts himself, saying his government is so caring, so full of good intention, that they raised benefit levels – the first time in forty years (not that they actually did) – but soon says it’s the wrong thing to do, something they won’t be doing again. So which is it, Bill? Good intention is bad, or hidden bad intention is good; or perhaps hidden bad intention is good until such time as deceptively good intention can be replaced by entirely evil intent? Evil uses good, against itself.

     His ideal is that the Rogernomic “Make changes so fast that by the time anyone finds out what you’re up to, it’s already done…” was good for the eighties, but now he’d like to do the same, but slower, to suit the times. I’d call his views “radical excrementalism.”
     • TE 2.1.1

       6 July 2015 at 11:54 am

       +^^^^ in infinity Charles your comment is so correct. I would like to print it out and paste it on my wall. So the friends and family can see that there are people out there that know the real meaning of evil.
3. Adrian 3

   6 July 2015 at 8:20 am

   Is it deliberate bullshit, stupidity or laziness or most likely all three.
   Key on MR asked about the possibility of recession and amongst other industries “going well” cited wine. Of course because he doesn’t “own” a wine company he wouldn’t know that this years crop is down 30+ %, that’s $500 million of exports returns alone, plus we’ll need to import more crap to make up the local consumption shortfall.
4. ianmac 4

   6 July 2015 at 10:19 am

   Funny how National claims the success of the economy is due to their clever stewardship, but any downturn is not their fault as it is world events outside their control. Like pride of a child’s success but disowning the child’s downfall.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.1

     6 July 2015 at 11:29 am

     That seems to always be the way with the right-wing. They take responsibility for the good times even if they had nothing to do with it (which they usually didn’t as their policies do the exact opposite) and blame someone else for the bad times despite it being their policies that brought them about.

     The right-wing never, ever take responsibility for their actions.
5. Morrissey 5

   6 July 2015 at 10:49 am

   Qatari dictatorship’s channel praises “Russia’s bloggers risking all for free speech.”
   Al Jazeera, 10:35 a.m., Monday 6 July 2015

   After the News, full of doom-laden English “reporters” snarling out dire warnings about Greece’s future now that they have been foolish enough to actually exercise their democratic rights, the newsreader says: “Next, Witness looks at Russia’s online bloggers who are risking all for free speech.”

   The program is called “RUSSIA’S ONLINE WAVEMAKERS“, and the opening scenes are underscored by low, minatory electronic music that you’d expect in a horror movie. So far, it’s all flagrant anti-Russian propaganda.

   Which would be fine, except for the fact that I have yet to see a single documentary about the American bloggers who are risking all for free speech. And if, by chance, the Qatari dictatorship’s channel does do such a program, I doubt that they would dare to score it with such ominous and crude mood music.
6. Draco T Bastard 6

   6 July 2015 at 11:19 am

   The Supreme Pointlessness of Drug Testing at Work

   This industry has relied on superficially intuitive arguments for drug testing: It’ll make employees use drugs less often and it’ll ensure a more efficient workplace. But those arguments have some significant holes.

   And what’s our govt doing? Oh, That’s right – more drug testing.

   IMO, the only time people should be tested fro drugs, including alcohol, is when they’re obviously impaired or when an accident occurs that could have been the result of impairment.
   • McFlock 6.1

     6 July 2015 at 12:29 pm

     Part of the problem is that alcohol levels are an impairment proxy, but there’s no such evidentiary base for things like marijuana or even fatigue. It’s just an employer-wank.

     A five minute, non-invasive test for impairment (reaction time, precision, fixation, etc) before operating dangerous machinery would do more for workplace safety than surprise piss tests ever would. Hell, the standard US field sobriety test (walking in a straight line toe-to-toe, arms out, while reciting the alphabet backwards sort of thing) would be a start.
     • Molly 6.1.1

       6 July 2015 at 12:48 pm

       Agree. Especially in terms of THC, which can be picked up seven weeks after use – well after the time of impairment.
7. Morrissey 7

   6 July 2015 at 11:23 am

   Is someone as stupid as this fit to comment on the intelligence of anyone else?

   Denise L’estrange-Corbet’s daughter Pebbles Hooper recently tweeted the following:

   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

   I’ll get major slack for this, but leaving a car running inside a closed garage while you’re kids are in the house is natural selection

   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

   The spelling and punctuation errors are Pebbles Hooper’s.

   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3149696/Kiwi-socialite-Pebbles-Hooper-tastelessly-mocks-death-mother-three-children-despite-losing-life.html
   • Puckish Rogue 7.1

     6 July 2015 at 12:56 pm

     She represents the difference between making your own way (me) and living off your parents (her)
     • McFlock 7.1.1

       6 July 2015 at 4:00 pm

       Making your own way?

       I’ll assume that you paid for 100% of your education, had no subsidies from middle-class or upper-income parents, and had absolutely no good luck completely beyond your control, then. You are a true master of the universe.
       • Charles 7.1.1.1

         6 July 2015 at 4:19 pm

         He represents the difference between waiting for parents to conceive (him) and truely self-made men, who do not wait for chance, and conceive themselves (me). I will not abide utero… uterusrian… womberarian… damn it I will not abide bludgers of the womb!

         Now if you will excuse me I have a universe to run.
         • weka 7.1.1.1.1

           6 July 2015 at 4:35 pm

           that’s the funniest thing I’ve read on ts all year.
8. Heartbleeding Liberal 8

   6 July 2015 at 12:57 pm

   Paula Bennett considers money that a emotionally vulnerable woman sent to a scammer overseas qualifies as a loan and therefore an asset thus allowing her benefit entitlement to be reduced. Some legal eagle might have a shot at a successful judicial review of this decision.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11476193
   • weka 8.1

     6 July 2015 at 4:41 pm

     A review within the dept should do it. It looks to me like she’s declared the money as a loan or gift and that’s why they’ve counted it as an asset (you can’t give away money when on a benefit if you want additional support*). However, it’s probably a discretionary decision, which means the decision could be reversed.

     *there are a lot of rules like this that many on benefits would be aware of. Am thinking of the woman on the DPB in Nelson who was getting financial help from her mother. WINZ wanted to count it as income and thus use it as part of assessing her benefit (i.e. pay less benefit). The onus should be on the department to be up front about these things.
   • Naki man 8.2

     6 July 2015 at 10:27 pm

     Its her husband I feel sorry for. It would be bad enough to find out that your wife was having an 18 month long online relationship with another man. The fact that she gave this sleaze ball $41k of their money is really rubbing the shit in.
9. Tracey 9

   6 July 2015 at 1:38 pm

   Did anyone read Ms Collins ill researched PR release for Zespri in the SST? If you know some facts it reads like a fluff piece for Zespri

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/69834952/green-turns-to-gold-for-zespri

   I say ill researched cos she was lauding Zespri for moving quickly on PSA and introducing a new higher yield strand of gold kiwifruit… but she omitted that this amazing breakthrough kiwifruit has a very short shelf life,,, and is going “off” on the way to its exports destinations…

   I know 3 kiwifruit growers, all hit by PSA, who dug up and the replaced with the new strain, only to find that it just won’t last after seperation from the vine.
10. TE 10

    6 July 2015 at 2:27 pm

    In 2009 Sinister for Biosecurity David Carter cut 60 border jobs.
    with National party making cuts to our bio security budget

    Biosecurity failures since…
    tomato/potato psyllid
    hadda beetle
    willow aphid
    eucalyptus beetle
    quava moth
    *PSA*
    varroa bee mite
    and the killer of a horticultural industry
    Queensland fruit fly
    and many more

    Under Nationals watch PSA was welcomed into NZ
    Was that so we would welcome GE GMO with open arms?
    How dumb does judy think we are?
    Judith Collins been making up shit since forever

    Early 2003 when we were the world largest and best producers of kiwifruit
    vines were cut and sent to Italy to grow there
    the contracted pruners had to sign a contract stating they would not tell their unsuspecting work mates that soon they would be out of a job,
    not to tell anyone or they would get the sack and maybe taken to court.

    Who wants to buy cold stored 6month old kiwifruit when we can have it *fresh* on our shelves from Italy.
    That bit of skulldugery cost NZ dearly and most of the orchard owners who were in the syndicate of the new Italian order were also Zespri decision makers.
    Did you forget that bit of the kiwifruit saga judy?
    • repateet 10.1

      6 July 2015 at 4:01 pm

      Do you reckon ex-Sinister Carter might slip an extra line into the daily prayer begging pardon for his cock-ups?
11. McFlock 11

    6 July 2015 at 4:06 pm

    Oh look, the cops can’t be trusted.

    Apparently the promised not to use any of the information gleaned when they raided Hager’s home (re: the dirty politics hacking) while the search was being challenged in court, but still shared a person’s name with an officer conducting another investigation.
    • Anne 11.1

      6 July 2015 at 4:19 pm

      Beat me to it McFlock. My intro. was going to be… How can we trust the police.

      What about the person whose name appeared in a Hagar document? On the basis of that mention they conducted an investigation into him/her. I hope Hagar has informed the person concerned so that they can take appropriate action.
    • ianmac 11.2

      6 July 2015 at 8:19 pm

      Raises the question of just what they were attempting to achieve. Evidence of the hacker or anyone of interest perhaps politically?
      • McFlock 11.2.1

        6 July 2015 at 8:31 pm

        Well, going fishing on the off chance that after publishing he hadn’t cleaned up a note saying “Rawshark is Andrew Little, all the HD recordings I made of our meetings are at http://www.whoopsiedaisy.com” would be the excuse.

        But such a search might also shed light on who he’s speaking to and the progress of his current projects, too.
12. Vaughan Little 12

    6 July 2015 at 7:11 pm

    can’t attach this comment to the top thread cos I’m using my phone… this’ll be the last thing I say on the topic today: “I believe in freedom of speech, right up to the point where you say the wrong thing, in which case you’re fired.”

    the focus needs to be on character, not words. character comes through in patterns of behaviour and speech over time. I hate a culture in.which so much stock is put by single comments without setting them.in context.

    “she’s in a position of power” and so are the myriad people who contribute to social media mass-tantrums about he said she said. my old dad said, give them enough rope.and they’ll hang themselves. pebbles and her generation are either gonna hang themselves or find their feet. again, generosity of spirit is a foundation of open society. I’m repeating myself a bit,but I’m repeating stuff that the “off with her head” crowd didn’t address in their replies…
    • Charles 12.1

      6 July 2015 at 7:34 pm

      The character, words, patterns, speech and behaviour were put into context, repeatedly, by the “off with her head crowd”. That’s how they arrived at “off with her head”. They weren’t “single comments”. Where was Pebble’s generosity of spirit? So did she contribute to an open society with her words, or closed, cold, isolated one? And more importantly where is Bam Bam?

      It’s ok bro, you support people with power ragging on those without. Why do you have to try to convinvce us it’s ok for you to have an opinion? Only thing that matters is that you’re ok with it. If your conscience is ok with it, everything ok. You’re ok, I’m ok. Everybody Okay.

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