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Open Mike 06/10/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 6th, 2016 - 210 comments
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210 comments on “Open Mike 06/10/2016 ”

  1. Paul 1

    Rugby in the news again for all the wrong reasons.
    Until Tew and co take the issue seriously, this will continue.

    “On the Sunday in Christchurch after the South African test at the Christchurch Airport, Aaron and a female friend were seen by members of the public to enter the disabled toilets.
    “Clearly Aaron is bitterly disappointed with his behaviour and feels he has let the team down but just as importantly feels he is bitterly disappointed in letting his family and partner down.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11723446
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/85015214/star-halfback-aaron-smith-leaves-all-blacks-tour-in-disgrace

    • James 1.1

      I don’t see the big deal. It’s sad that’s it’s not his partner. But as for a quick knee trembler in the toilets – plenty of us have done it.

      If you haven’t – I’d say you have missed out.

      • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1

        I liked the way the wife was disgusted by the actions and hung around 5-10 minutes, just to make sure of course, instead of going off and finding a security guard or something

        Still not a good look considering the bad press rugbys getting at the moment

        • Naki man 1.1.1.1

          “I liked the way the wife was disgusted”

          Yes i think entertained is the word she was looking for. Its a bit pervy hanging around the toilets for with your children for ten minutes recording people having sex, for all they knew it could have been his partener.

      • reason 1.1.2

        …….. actually James public toilet sex sounds rather grotty and the only thing good I can think about it would be that its slightly better than wanking in a public toilet ………

        It all sounds very low grade and as sexy as a public toilet ….. …….

        … but speaking of rugby and the chiefs in particular.

        I still have rugby contacts involved with the game and the information which has come back to me claims it was a couple of All Blacks involved with the bad behavior ….

        I had been argueing/debating with my rugby mate ….. as initially he thought the stripper incident would “blow over” ….. I said it would have if they had identified the offenders and dished out appropriate punishment and an apology ….. the cover up was the thing multiplying the damage for Rugby ….

        Anyway about a week later he came back with the info that it was senior players/ All blacks involved …… which is why individuals were not named and held accountable …..

        They are protecting the All Black brand…… and the chiefs would not have wanted their team weakened by suspending and leaving out a couple of their best players either ……

        My rugby mate agreed it was pretty shitty behavior….. in trying to understand what could make All Blacks believe it was ok for them to act that way towards women ….we thought it was like they had been influenced and come under the spell of a pony tail pulling pervert …

        I pointed out that the other influence from their sub prime mascot is probably dodgy tax stuff …. our national heroes could be using Keys tax haven contacts ( like his lawyer mate ), to protect their wealth from poor kiwi kids and others who need state aid …….

        If I were running rugby and was concerned for its health and future I would get rid of all the bad anti-family influences ….. and do some apologizing for past bad behaviors like selecting all white All black teams to tour south africa, ruining the montral olympics etc …..

        I would try to get some leaders with good morals and decent ethics involved …

        Rugby needs people like Graham Mourie who are great leaders and role models worthy of respect …. http://pukeariki.com/Learning-Research/Taranaki-Research-Centre/Taranaki-Stories/Taranaki-Story/id/629/title/springbok-tour-forces-brave-decision
        http://pukeariki.com/Learning-Research/Taranaki-Research-Centre/Taranaki-Stories/Taranaki-Story/id/626/title/graham-mourie-a-man-of-conscience

        Get rid of the bent keys and other trash ………

        • Paul 1.1.2.1

          So, if you are accurate, two of these six.
          I am pretty certain Sam Cane did not go to the function and Sonny Bill Williams does not drink alcohol.

          Six Gallagher Chiefs players have been named in the All Blacks squad for the 2016 Investec Rugby Championship starting on August 20 in Sydney.

          The squad is as follows: (with province, Investec Super Rugby team and Test caps in brackets)

          Nathan Harris (Bay of Plenty / Chiefs, 4)
          Brodie Retallick (Hawke’s Bay / Chiefs, 50)
          Sam Cane (Bay of Plenty / Chiefs, 34)
          Tawera Kerr-Barlow (Waikato / Chiefs, 21)
          Aaron Cruden (Manawatu / Chiefs, 39)
          Sonny Bill Williams (Counties Manukau / Chiefs, 33)

          Further to this, young stars, Damian McKenzie, Anton Lienert-Brown and Seta Tamanivalu will be part of a two-day wider training camp commencing this Thursday.

          http://www.chiefs.co.nz/news/news/latest-news/246-six-gallagher-chiefs-players-named-in-the-all-blacks-2016-investec-rugby-championship-squad

          • Paul 1.1.2.1.1

            Here are some newspaper cuttings on some of them…….

            Cruden left at home after night out drinking

            Some players used the time to go to Auckland pub The Zookeeper’s Son. Photos from the night were later posted on Facebook saying “The ‘Men In Black’ dined and partied with us last night… thanks guys! Great to see you again!”
            Pub owner Lindy Catchpole said the group arrived around 8pm, dined, played pool and were well behaved, leaving before midnight.
            “They had a great time, they enjoyed themselves, they had dinner and just hung out. Nothing out of the ordinary,” she said.
            Cruden, Aaron Smith, Brodie Retallick, Kieran Read, Conrad Smith and Sam Whitelock were at the pub, according to Catchpole. And the pub’s Facebook page featured the players posing with staff and patrons.
            All but Cruden were understood to have retired at an acceptable time after dinner.
            “We didn’t have a curfew. He was out drinking and he didn’t get there in time,” Hansen added.
            “It’s obviously disappointing and out of character for [Aaron]. He’s extremely disappointed in himself. He understands there has to be a consequence for his actions.
            ”Once we get this out of the way then he will be coming back into the group when we go to Brisbane [for the third Bledisloe Cup test].
            “It’s not what we, or he, stands for. We all make mistakes. Like our children we loved them but sometimes we don’t love their behaviour.
            ”The team is well aware when we don’t get that right there are consequences. He’s paid the price for that.”

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/10528759/Cruden-left-at-home-after-night-out-drinking

          • Paul 1.1.2.1.2

            ‘Baby Black’ teammate joked about rape online

            A member of the New Zealand under 20 rugby squad joked about a rapist in a Facebook post as a teammate was being investigated for rape by South African police.
            Baby Blacks hooker Nathan Harris today outed himself as the player accused of raping a 22-year-old woman at a Cape Town hotel on the night of his side’s junior world championship defeat to hosts South Africa last Friday.
            New Zealand Rugby Union chief executive Steve Tew would not comment on today’s developments but said earlier this week the Baby Blacks squad had been reminded of team protocols only hours before the alleged rape.
            Tew said players had been drinking on Friday night but didn’t believe they were grossly intoxicated.
            However squad members made comments on social networking sites about “drowning sorrows” after their loss to South Africa.
            And yesterday one joked on Facebook that “they can’t find the rapist cause he is in Australia”.

            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10816182
            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10816058
            http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/7744363/Baby-Black-over-cleared-of-rape-allegation

          • reason 1.1.2.1.3

            Hi Paul …. my friend was doing the same ‘narrow down the suspects’ process …… but much like John Keys tax returns the truth is being kept secret …….. presumably because the information is damaging.

            I gave up on watching or following rugby long long ago so any rugby names are pretty much unknown and irrelevant to me …… The Chiefs behavior does not surprise me and is a natural result of allowing lower standards of behavior from those ‘higher’ in society ……

            I pointed out to my rugby union friend that many of the professional Rugby League club sides ban alcohol for the players during the season…. they did this to try and stop the bad press resulting from bad and often violent behavior which sometimes erupts when sports teams or players get pissed…….

            Rugby is an aggressive game centered on controlled violence … elite sportsmen often have BIG egos ……. then get them pissed … hhhmmmm smells like trouble .

            Its also Ironic teams may ban players from using what is often a sponsors product because of the shit which results … but the club still making money pushing this drug and effectively advertising it in front of children.

            Steinlager All blacks ……………… The mascot drinks a lot 😉

        • james 1.1.2.2

          So – do you have anything to back up your allegations or do we just have to take the word of your “mate”.

          Of course your mate knows more than the report, statements given etc.

          • reason 1.1.2.2.1

            I’m honestly passing on information as told to me by someone who I would say almost loves rugby ….. and probably played it to a much higher standard than you james ….

            I trust my source but it is second hand information so would not be allowed in court …

            The main evidence in support of it is the poor leadership and a convoluted unfair to innocent players apology which came from the chiefs …

            Not to mention the other stripper who came forward from the year before …. as at the time the “she’s a liar” narrative was being pushed by the BM’s , Ross’s ……. and maybe you james???

            Of course a proper punishment with the appropriate players getting it would clear everything up ……….and would have from the start

      • Its much better in bed .

      • mosa 1.1.4

        Well James i have missed out.
        Where public toilets are concerned i just want to get out as quick as when i went in.

        As for rugby and the All Black concerned it just proves what i have always thought
        they are human after all and not the gods they are made out to be.
        When you strip away the hype and exaggerated status and the pedestal they are placed upon ( the lead story on the national news ) its just a game of footie and compared to the major issues confronting us in this country its like we have got our priorities all wrong if this behaviour is treated as a major news story.

    • Hilarious that the rugby bosses leap on this non-story about someone having consensual sex with someone else and impose immediate disciplinary action for such immoral and shameful behaviour, but when their players do things that genuinely do bring the game into disrepute they see no need to take any action and have to be shamed into it by the media. These guys are seriously fucked in the head.

      • Editractor 1.2.1

        Now I’m curious. Is it still illegal in NZ to have sex in a public place? If so, are the bosses objecting to him possibly breaking the law or for having sex?

        • Brutus Iscariot 1.2.1.1

          No – a toilet is not a public place. Yes, in the general sense of the word it is, but the room itself is private.

          Not like he was standing out in the foyer.

          By your argument it would be legal to photograph someone in a toilet cubicle as it is a “public place”.

        • Psycho Milt 1.2.1.2

          They basically don’t get what consent is, so for them the thing that distinguishes this incident from ones like the Chiefs sexually assaulting strippers is that the people complaining this time are “decent” people, not “strippers” or “some slut one of our players fucked.” Hence the prompt disciplinary action.

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.2.2

        Agree. Only real offense was tying up the disabled toilet when they aren’t disabled.

    • Cinny 1.3

      Those rugby boys need to learn the art of discretion and living in the public eye.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.4

      Why is that even news?

  2. Paul 2

    The talk……

    ‘Change is coming’: May turns her back on 40 years of Tory ideology
    ‘If you’re an accountant, a financial adviser or a middleman who helps people to avoid what they owe to society, we’re coming after you too,’ says PM.

    Ms May also criticised those who saw themselves as “a citizen of the world”, free from the “bonds” of citizenship and the duties that brought.
    She told them: “You don’t understand what the very word ‘citizenship’ means.
    “So if you’re a boss who earns a fortune but doesn’t look after your staff, an international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra, a household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism, a director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust, I’m putting you on warning.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-speech-tory-conference-party-pm-change-thatcher-conservativism-immigration-a7346226.html

  3. ianmac 3

    Was this discussed yesterday?

    “Prime Minister John Key introduced legislation in August to amend disclosure rules for the country’s 12,000 foreign trusts, a move triggered by media coverage of New Zealand’s links to Panama law firm Mossack Fonseca.
    The disclosure bill, which is now under review by select committee, has the singular feature that it arguably does not increase disclosure.
    What a cheek!
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/85000994/john-key-keeps-lid-on-hidden-billions

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1

      This morning when I opened The Standard in Chrome, I found myself logged in as you, and could not log out.

      If it happened to me who knows who else? Might pay to change passwords etc.

      …and yeah, I agree – Clayton’s disclosure.

      • lprent 3.1.1

        Damn. Good thing that you weren’t logged in as me. Turned the Page cache off.

        • left for dead 3.1.1.1

          How much trouble could we get into. Ha 👿

        • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.1.2

          Damn. I always wondered what it would be like to feel power crazy 😈

          • lprent 3.1.1.2.1

            It is completely overrated as a profession. Too much niggly, unproductive and uncreative work.

            Unfortunately I happen to be very good at managing systems and people because of my family background, training, or whatever (personally I think it is mostly genetics). Consequently being a total contrarian I have spent most of my working life figuring out how to avoid it.

            I much prefer building systems rather than running them, and being power crazy is all about controlling running systems. The key to getting out of that zone is to make sure that everyone else can run their areas without too much interference or organizing and doing it as a situational structure.

            You can see that philosophy running through the anarchy that is this site.

            I tend to work mainly on the technical areas for everything from the hardware to security to the community dynamics because I have had a lot of experience in such areas. But I also cede control where-ever I can. That frees up time to work on other projects like paid work or having a relationship.

            That all being said, most of the areas I have a crucial role on this site are either purely technical or security / legal.

            Anyway, my point is that power crazy is good as a vacation, but it is a drag as a lifestyle. Mostly people who think it’d be a good idea simply haven’t had enough experience to know that. 😈

    • Paul 3.2

      I was also automatically logged in as you.

    • Bearded Git 3.3

      Brilliant article. Key was never going to do the right thing on disclosure of overseas trusts.

      If these crap “reforms” become law, which doubtless they will, there should be an immediate policy response by the Lab/Gr bloc saying they will change the law when elected next year so that a public register of the overseas trusts will be available to be seen by all-comers.

      I would have thought Winston would be on-side with this too.

  4. Paul 4

    World’s largest fashion retailer Zara opens its doors in NZ
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11723486

    The True Cost is a groundbreaking documentary film that pulls back the curtain on the untold story and asks us to consider, who really pays the price for our clothing?

  5. Richard Rawshark 5

    same I emailed lprent within 3 minutes it seemed fixed..thanks sysop.

    now there is an absolute slamming attack on Hekia. this gave me sexual urges it was so good!!!!! (settle folks, figuratively)

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11722160

    read it, please read it!!!!

    • lprent 5.1

      It was fixed as soon as I read OAB’s comment. Pre-coffee as well.

    • Paul 5.2

      Neoliberal policies that have dominated Western democracies for a generation have brought a reversal of this agenda with a growth of inequality that has been breathtaking in scale and speed. Alongside is the growth internationally of extremist and dehumanising ideologies which threaten the fabric of Western democracies.

      The end game of a callous undermining of the public education system is the collapse of an informed participatory citizenship.

      Key’s retort.
      “He’s one academic, and like lawyers, I can provide you with another one that will give you a counterview. ……”

    • Paul 5.3

      It would be easy to say the education reforms lack imagination and are simply a lazy reiteration of failed policies of the 1990s. However, that would be to ignore the clear vision that drives them. It’s a vision that privileges the private sector, which creates schools as competing business units and pretends poverty and unfairness don’t matter.

      When public education becomes yet another thing we may lose, along with the dream that hard work meant you could leave poverty behind, own your own home and balance a 40-hour working week with leisure time, we will wonder why we let it go so easily and ask what we gained instead.

      The right wing will then tell us joylessly that we got choice. And when that happens we will know we got conned. Again.

    • Paul 5.4

      Great article.
      Hidden below Kim Kardashian.

      This is American Soft Culture Power blocking out the noise of Empires at War.
      The escapism of now is robbing us of a future.
      Hush Sleepy Hobbits. Hush.

      http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/10/05/no-you-shouldnt-mock-kim-kardashian-for-being-violently-robbed-yes-you-should-mock-the-media-focus-on-this-banal-crap/

    • ianmac 5.5

      Agreed Richard. This incremental shifting is collapsing a pretty good Education system. Who can withstand the diminishing returns for the kids? Only the teachers really but they are labelled as militant unionists and are dismissed as self-interested. Keep it up Peter O’Connor.

  6. Colonial Viper 6

    NY Attorney General brags about Trump Foundation mistakes; later forced to quietly admit Clinton Foundation failed to file 3 years of paperwork

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-05/ny-attorney-general-clinton-foundation-failed-provide-3-years-records-donors-and-con

    • Richard Rawshark 6.1

      From the article I read yesterday, everyone in Ohio is voting Trump, they all think Clinton should be in jail, Ohio apparently is the indicator state for the US, if they pick Trump, Trumps in.

      Now if that’s true, either a nuclear war will be soon, or the most interesting times of our lives is about to begin. As Trump like Key, believing their own legacy wrecks the place, and perhaps the planet.

      can’t wait, where’s the popcorn.

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        Florida, Ohio, North Carolina and Georgia are four states that Trump must win if he is to stand any real chance of getting to the Oval Office.

        If he loses any of those states, his chances of beating Hillary start declining very sharply. Florida is of course the big one. If he loses Florida the road immediately gets near-impossible for him.

        • Ad 6.1.1.1

          Agreed.

          Hurricane Matthew enters Stage Left.

          How both candidates respond to its impact will be televisually highly relevant to Florida’s voting tendency.

      • miravox 6.1.2

        The interesting guy is Pence, I reckon. it’ll be as easy for him to run the show with a fool like Trump at the top as it was for Cheney with Bush as a figurehead.

        • Morrissey 6.1.2.1

          Yeah, Pence comes across as smart all right—just like those smart German politicians Franz von Papen and Kurt von Schleicher.

          • miravox 6.1.2.1.1

            yeah… nah – I don’t think Pence and his backers are as hapless as those two, and although Trump has certain characteristics in common with the third character in that play, I’m not sure he’s as cunning.

            I’m sticking with the Cheney comparison …. for now.

    • McFlock 6.2

      lol

      Paperwork that was subsequently filed as soon as the apparent oversight was brought to the Foundation’s attention.
      Unlike Trump’s crowd.

      • One Two 6.2.1

        Still fighting to defend every raised point for Hillary and The Foundation

        Is it infatuation, vagina envy or are you that you can’t control the urge when CV posts?

        Defending filth with extensive ‘criminal’ history decades long is idiotic

        • McFlock 6.2.1.1

          Is that your “higher frequency” operating again?

          If Trump was genuinely better than Clinton in any way, you could talk about that rather than inventing pop psychology that even Freud would have thought was a bit kooky.

          • Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster 6.2.1.1.1

            It’s not that Trump is genuinely better then “the most qualified person to ever stand for the presidency,” to quote Obama, but that Clinton is struggling to beat the clown!

            Just think for a moment what that tells us about the two candidates!

            It reminds me of Muldoon’s quip about the IQ of NZ and Aussie.

            • McFlock 6.2.1.1.1.1

              Is that the result of the player or the umpire?

              • Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster

                More the result of the spectators, I think! The disillusionment with the status quo runs pretty deep in the US.

  7. rhinocrates 7

    A documentary film to keep an eye out for:

    Do Not Resist

    http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/do-not-resist-2016

    Atkinson’s film explores this build up of weaponry, but it also shows how police rhetoric has been pumped up on rhetorical steroids. In seminars and tactical rehearsals, we hear civilians referred to as “the enemy.” And in one of the film’s most appalling scenes, from a Senate committee meeting in 2014, the Deputy Undersecretary of Acquisition for the Defense Department is asked to explain why the military is giving bayonets to local police in the United States. Bayonets are for war.

    The illogical endpoint of all of this is scenes like the ones that occurred in Ferguson, Missouri. This tragedy is folded into the narrative as an example of how legitimate civilian protest is treated as enemy activity by police, who then roll out their latest toys and look for excuses to use them. Instead of nurturing a sense that the police are connected to the communities they are supposed to protect and serve, the rhetoric and weapons instill the idea of the forces in opposition, one side a threat and the other the answer to the threat. This is a fascist mentality, the opposite of democratic ideals.

  8. Morrissey 8

    Two poorly informed comedians, a poorly informed literary man
    and a highly constrained, fearful academic talk about death squads.

    The Panel, RNZ National, Wednesday 5 October 2016, 4:13 p.m.
    Jesse Mulligan, Jeremy Elwood, Michael Moynahan, Megan Whelan

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/201818806/philippines-president's-anti-american-rhetoric

    The most offensive aspect to the following travesty is not the two professional stand-up comedians struggling to say something erudite—“I’ve been reading quite a lot about this guy, I mean, ahhhmm, I mean”—and blithely talking, with no apparent sense of irony, about the United States lecturing Duterte about “death squads” and “sanctioned killings”. It’s not the ridiculous comments by Michael Moynahan at the end of the farce. No, the worst part of this shambles is the guest, billed grandly as “the Regional Security Fellow at the Centre for Strategic Studies”, who somehow forgets to mention just why a Filipino president being lectured about “human rights” by the United States should react with such a display of contempt. [1]. But then, on reflection, Paul Sinclair’s mediocrity, timidity, and mealy-mouthedness should hardly come as a surprise, given that he is a departmental colleague of the notorious Lance Beath and Robert Ayson. Like the equally dismal University of Waikato professor Al Gillespie the day before, Paul Sinclair chose to defer to the sensibilities of his colleagues rather than talk candidly.

    Here, for those who can bear such naked mediocrity and cowardice, is the transcript of eight miserable minutes of taxpayer-funded dissembling….

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Ah, we’ll stay overseas. The president of the Philippines, Rodrigo Duterte, has told Barack Obama to “go to Hell.” He doesn’t like the U.S. president criticizing his War on Drugs and Crime which has led to the killing of—oh this is incredible—the killing of three and a half thousand people, the SANCTIONED killing of three and a half thousand people. He-e-e’s also likened himself to Hitler—he’s a real piece of work. He said he’d be happy to slaughter three million drug users, ahem, this guy seemed to come out of NOWHERE, Jeremy.

    JEREMY ELWOOD: Yeah, um, I’ve been reading quite a lot about this guy, I mean, ever since he announced that he was running for the presidency, ahhhmm, I mean, I, I guess one of the things here is, no one in the Philippines should be surprised at this. He SAID right from the beginning, when he was mayor of, um, and I’m sorry I’ve forgotten the name of the town.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Yeah, it’s an old school bloodlust town, yeah.

    JEREMY ELWOOD: Yeah. I mean, he was mayor of there and there were a lot of allegations about death squads and killings—sanctioned killings—of DRUG DEALERS. I mean, his main push is against the drug trade. Um, and he ran on a platform that he was going to, quote, “wipe out drug crime within six months.” Um, I mean it does, if, if you just come as an observer it reads like the plot for The Raid 3, or some ridiculous action movie. He’s almost like a Bond-esque villain but I think he’s FRIGHTENING, he’s very very frightening.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: And doesn’t seem afraid, Michael, to be making international enemies.

    MICHAEL MOYNAHAN: [speaking slowly, carefully, to convey moral seriousness] No he doesn’t seem to at ALL, um, it, it is, um, ah, he did, he did ENTIRELY telegraph what it was he was going to do, AND he had done all of this stuff before. What I thought was interesting from some of the stuff I’ve been reading and seeing lately is that the Philippine electorate EMBRACED him because actually he was seen as the ALTERNATIVE to all of the corruption, all of the promises they’d been made post, um, ah, Marcos, ahh, you know, “We’re gonna sort this out, we’re going to organize, a civil society et cetera, none of that happened, and so he’s actually the RESPONSE that the Philippine electorate has given, and he’s PART of, in an extraordinarily extreme way, the whole BACKLASH against the establishment.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: [dolefully] Yeah.

    JEREMY ELWOOD: Yeah he’s basically Donald Trump with a bloodlust!

    JESSE MULLIGAN: [restrained, mirthless, grave] Ah ha ha ha ha.

    MICHAEL MOYNAHAN: Oh, GOD!

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Well there’s a piece, there’s an interesting piece in the Guardian which quotes a senior Filipino police officer, because the police have been turned into KILLERS really, which’d be an incredible thing to go on if your usual job is keeping the peace and then you get orders to go out and start SHOOTING people.

    JEREMY ELWOOD: Yeah, and, and there’s SO many issues that ARISE from that, I mean if you’ve given the police a license to KILL, um, and, and if you have, as Duarte [sic] HAS done, um, enticed public civilians to take the laws into their own hands when it comes to when, if there’s a drug dealer, I mean that just blows open the doors of SO much potential corruption.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Yeah, yeah.

    JEREMY ELWOOD: All you need, I mean in terms of, you know, what happened a LOT in Stalinist Russia, you just need to ACCUSE somebody, you know, if you don’t LIKE your neighbor, all you need to do is drop a line saying “I’m pretty sure my neighbor’s a drug dealer” and, you know, problem solved.

    MICHAEL MOYNAHAN: And, and, the interesting thing is what IS at the bottom of it? Is it a cynical ploy on behalf of this particular politician who’s in fact, you know, actually BEHIND a lot of the corruption, you know, what lies behind it which we have no way of really TELLING in amongst all the noise that he is making and the, ahh, you know, telling off the U.S., telling off China, or WHATEVER it is? Is there something that lies beyond that, which is even more sinister? And that’s the bit that worries ME.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Well let’s ask Paul Sinclair. He’s Regional Security Fellow at the Centre for Strategic Studies and he joins us now. Hi Paul.

    PAUL SINCLAIR: Oh hi how are you?

    JESSE MULLIGAN: GOOD thank you. So the, the drug-related killings is one thing, but what’s the purpose behind all the anti-American rhetoric?

    PAUL SINCLAIR: Ahhhhhmmm, I think that that’s a reflection of the fact that, ah, he, ah, has got this single-minded agenda, um, ah, to wipe out drug dealers, the Americans have CRITICIZED it, ah, on human RIGHTS grounds, understandably, ahhhhh, and he has reacted very very strongly, ahhhh, that has posed a real conundrum for Washington, ahhh, because it is starting to undermine, ahhh, what the United States regards as a bedrock alliance commitment to the Philippines.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Yeah, what’s the HISTORY of that commitment and that alliance?

    PAUL SINCLAIR: It’s, it’s got a very interesting and somewhat checkered history, ahhh, it dates back, ahhhh, post-War, post-World War Two, ahhhhhmm, prior to that, um, the Philippines was an American colony for, um, several decades and there lies part of the ISSUES that surface from time to time between the Philippines and the United States. Ahhhhmm, all went WELL with that alliance, ahhh, between 1951 and 1992, until the Philippines senate at that time, ahhh, instructed the U.S. to leave ALL of its military bases in the Philippines, of which at that time there were very very many. Ahhhh, and, uh, the relationship went into a deep cold FREEZE for a number of years. It’s been built back, in particular in respect of issues over the South China Sea; the Philippines very actively sought U.S. support for the case that it mounted in The Hague.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Yeah that was interesting wasn’t it, I mean, you would certainly put the U.S. and the Philippines on the same side there, and China on the other side, but it sounds like, uh, the President Duterte is warming UP to China a little?

    PAUL SINCLAIR: Very much, ahhhhhh, he just said the other day that, uh, if the United States refuses to sell the Philippines weapons because of, uh, human rights concerns, um, he will source them from China and Russia, ahh, they’ll have NO COMPUNCTION, ah, about selling him military equipment, ahhh, he has I understand brought FORWARD his planned visit to Beijing and will now visit next month with a business delegation, and he sees China as the, ahhhh, as a potential source of significant investment that the Philippines badly needs to, um, strengthen its infrastructure.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Yeah, well speaking of the infrastructure and the economy, this has not been good for business in the Philippines, ahhh, going around and killing people tends to add a feeling of INSTABILITY. Do you think there’ll be a point at which the populace of the Philippines look at what’s going on in the economy and think, Hey well maybe this isn’t working?

    PAUL SINCLAIR: Ahhhm, yes there MAY be, ahhh, or hopefully there will be a realization, ahhh, um, that this has NOT been a particularly CLEVER thing for Duterte to do, ahhhh, but there is an element within the Philippines, ahhmm, the nationalist STRONGMAN which still holds quite a bit of appeal, ahmm, and it may take a WHILE for what’s happening now in a business sense to register with the Philippines population. The wealthy elite certainly will have a very strong view about this but whether the population more generally will, it’s really hard to say.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: All right, Paul Sinclair, ahhhh, Regional Security Fellow at the Centre for Strategic Studies at Victoria University, thanks so much for your time today.

    MICHAEL MOYNAHAN: D’ya know how many PEOPLE live in the Philippines? I just Googled it, by the way.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Ah, I’m gonna guess: sixty million?

    MICHAEL MOYNAHAN: Hundred!

    JESSE MULLIGAN: [faintly] Oh yeah?

    MICHAEL MOYNAHAN: Hundred million people! ….[long pause]…That’s TERRIFYING!

    JESSE MULLIGAN: I wonder how much impact this is having on DRUG USE over there? Whether it’s working? I mean, it’s sort of irrelevant, isn’t it, but it would be interesting to see how the drug community is RESPONDING. Oh by the way, I enjoyed what Paul said there, Jeremy: despite the fact that it might not make sense economically, the people are responding to a strongman who, I think it plays into what you were saying.

    JEREMY ELWOOD: Yeah I mean I think you see a LOT of that in, ahem, you know, countries which are, which had a history of both colonialism and often the drug trade. Um, you certainly see it a LOT in South America where, y’know, these, y’know, democratically elected leaders, um, turn into dictators very quickly, um, you look at someone like Noriega back in the um, y’know, eighties and nineties. Umm, there is a response to strong leadership, um, and in this case to the point, like I say, I mean this guy’s coming across like a modern-day Rambo or something, with his personal agenda, it’s ahhh….

    ——————————————————————————————

    I wrote the host of this débâcle the following email, to which he has yet to reply….

    Dear Jesse,

    While the terrifying President Duterte is indeed all the things you say, how is he any worse than President Obama?

    Yours sincerely,
    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    [1] http://fonsucu.blogspot.co.nz/2005/11/filipino-genocide.html

    • Richard Rawshark 8.1

      I think mate, this is actually supposed to be comedy?

      otherwise, if it’s serious debate, just switch off like everyone else would be.

      Mum knows more about it than that lot, so it must of um ahh been ah comedy. And a poor attempt at live comedy.

      • Morrissey 8.1.1

        Sadly, Richard, they were all pretending to be serious. At least Jim Mora would have made a joke about the death squads, kidder that he is.

        The funny part of this is entirely unintentional. It’s when Jesse Mulligan, after a lengthy meditation on the evils of President Duterte, then throws to someone even more vacuous than himself: “this guy seemed to come out of NOWHERE, Jeremy.”

        • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1

          If Duterte keeps heading down this road he’ll be set up in the western media for a regime changing “colour revolution”, “responsibility 2 protect” or similar coup.

    • Paul 8.2

      Thanks Morrissey.
      You listen to the Panel to save us the torture.
      And I really enjoy your transcripts.

    • Paul 8.3

      Great to have uninformed dolts commenting about matters they know nothing about.
      Pointlessness.
      Whereas Mulligan could have spoken to an expert on the matter.

      • Morrissey 8.3.1

        The problem here, Paul, is that Paul Sinclair IS an expert, but he would not speak plainly and honestly.

        • Paul 8.3.1.1

          Funding issues???
          MIke Joy has much to say about compromised academics….

          • Morrissey 8.3.1.1.1

            It has nothing to do with funding. It has everything to do with making sure that whatever academics they have on are inoffensive and unlikely to say something “controversial”, i.e. truthful. Thats why the likes of Robert Patman and Al Gillespie are on so often, but never someone like Mike Joy.

      • Psycho Milt 8.3.2

        Great to have uninformed dolts commenting about matters they know nothing about.

        Er, hello? Have you noticed where we are?

    • I wrote the host of this débâcle the following email, to which he has yet to reply….

      Given that Mulligan probably looked at it, thought “Fuck I hate this false equivalence bullshit” and set a rule directing future emails from this sender straight to the deleted-items folder, I wouldn’t expect a reply if I were you.

      • Morrissey 8.4.1

        Mulligan probably looked at it, thought “Fuck I hate this false equivalence bullshit”

        I don’t think that Obama is equivalent to Duterte. That would be unfair to Duterte.

    • james 8.5

      Like he gives a flying care about your email – Im sure it was deleted right away as unworthy of even reading.

  9. lsmith 9

    Dear Morrissey. You are. An idiot.

  10. Chooky 10

    RNZ is trying to give an alternative non establishment , non mainstream media view ! …at least it was last night… with this entertaining interview by the stand in for Bryan Crump ( yesterday evening on ‘Nights’) on the USA Election

    LOTUS (Lionel of the United States)

    Emmy Award Winning Renaissance Lawyer and News Decoder Michael William Lebron AKA Lionel on the state of political play in the U.S.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/nights/audio/201818845/lotus-lionel-of-the-united-states

    http://lionelmedia.com/

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      Lionel is a very interesting and funny commentator…listen to him talk about his personal journey around 9/11 here

  11. Richard Rawshark 11

    Russia, doing nuclear war drills evacuating 40 million people to shelters as we speak, Trumps a mad dog, wars in Syria and tensions brewing, North Korea threatening to make build and launch against the south or America nuclear weapons.

    There’s more trouble going on currently than during the cold war i’m starting to think.

    I wonder currently what the minutes to midnight clocks set at currently? Or defcon status of the planet.

    In all seriousness, with Putin, and Obama, and then Trump threatening to become president of the most powerful nation on the planet and the rhetoric about making the USA powerful again.

    I think we as a country also need to re-evaluate the current state of international diplomacy for our own good.

    A risk of nuclear war being imminent is highly increased surely?

    anyone else having concerns?

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      Plenty of people are very concerned.

      Chooky put this link up to RT’s most recent Crosstalk episode

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu3O9MHDzdQ

      Alex Jones on Chair of the Joint Chiefs Dunford’s testimony to Congress that implementing a no fly zone in Syria would be starting a war against Syria and Russia – and he wasn’t going to make that decision.

      Jon Batchelor show interviewing Prof Stephen F Cohen on the escalating new cold war

      https://audioboom.com/boos/5128734-tales-of-the-new-cold-war-options-on-the-syria-table-stephen-f-cohen-nyu-princeton-university-eastwestaccord-com

    • Bill 11.2

      Trump may be a mad dog, but Clinton also wants to add Syria to the glorious achievements of Iraq and Libya.

      India and Pakistan are ramping it up in Kashmir (Both nuclear armed now thanks to li’l ol’ NZ)

      If the White Helmets get the Nobel Peace prize they’ve been nominated for, then we’re way down some rabbit hole that’s not in Kansas. (Other signifiers of unreality that can be added to the Alice and Dorothy references would probably be appropriate.)

      On a darkly lighter note.

      If someone was to ‘rent’ Saudi Arabia a nuclear device, most of the terrorism in the ME would end, our carbon emissions would plummet and all that blasted sand entering the atmosphere could possibly have a welcome, short term cooling effect on our planet.

      That’s three birds with one stone by my reckoning.

      But back to your point. Concerns? Yes.

    • Puckish Rogue 12.1

      That was kind of the point wasn’t it? Go to a blockade, get detained and deported and get some publicity so…mission accomplished?

    • Cinny 12.2

      Huge Kudos to her for supporting the struggle. Very proud of Marama for joining the flotilla, walking the talk, RESPECT <3

      Stay safe, they don't fuck around over there huni and we need you in Parliament you are a STAR.

  12. How many wake up calls does the New Zealand public need?

    Dirty politics.

    Extensive slavery and fish dumping – environmental destruction – and screeds of evidence that the goverment has known about it for years and covered it up. And now customs covering up more abuses of the poorest, most exploited people in the world!

    The Lying away the outrageous increase in child poverty and homelessness.

    New Zealand’s key role, as yet unreported, in Panama. Of course, what many people don’t know is that that company has strong connection to Mi6 and the CIA: for it was the NZ goverment who initiated that financial arrangement, during the Iran crisis, given how much dirty operational money needed to be obscured… that’s right, folks… just as all the Iranian intel passed through the New Zealand embassy in Manila during that time, it was New Zealanders, and Mi6 employees stationed in NZ who facilitated the cashflow! Wonder why NZ has some strange surveillance concern with Iran? It’s historical.

    Conspiracy theory no doubt…. As likely as members of the Hearst dynasty tied up with the Weather Underground moving to Christchurch and changed their surname to Tree.

    What’s the point of the media, and you so-called leftists in the face of what you really face…. You can’t even see the tip of the iceberg! Sorry, just a little disappointed. Please, travel some more. Go live in a pagoda for a month in an empoverished province of a Western fucked nation.

    Those who can, do what they can. We will live and die unknown and you will never know any better. Well, better to try than to do nothing at all. But you know who this is, don’t you SIS and friends. Thanks for the visit last year by the way. I didn’t say anything and showed her a good time. Trust she enjoyed herself.

    In the next few months more revelations will come out – if there are people ready to listen. But to what end? To what effect? So depressing. Banging the old head against the wall…

    It took you (opposition, media) two bloody years to twig to the extent of migrant labour abuses despite individuals from fairfax and other media organizations having the truth rubbed in your noses, repeatedly, by friends of ours. But there’s been some good work, especially by one particular journo now working for radio NZ. You know who I mean. Shoutout, sister! Still, you – the media – haven’t reported on the fact that anti-slavery activists have been harassed into the dirt by the intelligence services.

    Yes, correct: go talk to all those who have housed, fed, and advocated for abused migrant workers. The filmmakers who tried to bring the issue to attention also. Followed, harassed, and intimidated by our own security services as well as by private contractors. No doubt they were affecting New Zealand’s economic well being…

    Talk to the director of Slaves of the Ocean about it. Talk to the activists who protected the fishermen who fled the Oyang. It’s an incredible story of human rights defenders – patriots of the highest order – being harrasssed and crushed by the state and by private contractors working closely together. They were even spying the hell out of the Anglican Church, for God’s sake. Facist, anti – human rights surveillance. Yes, in New Zealand.

    Oh, to change the subject just slightly (cough – prettty obvious guys), be quite skeptical about who exactly was behind the leak of Slater’s emails. Curious, isn’t it, who was mentioned in those dumps (not always by the same people by the way).

    The fact is that Cameron Slater realized that he had been breached multiple times, and he sought to mitigate that. Think about it… that doesn’t apply to all releases….

    The fact is that “Rawshark” is not one person at all, but a number, including Cameron Slater himself. Confusing I know. Well, that was Cameron’s original plan but the idiot had a keystroke recorder on his machine and that made making plans, well, a bit of a game for his detractors, haha. I wonder how long Cameron would go to jail if it came out that he did or was at least planning that before it went awry. Heh.

    Ask yourself how many leaks of this magnitude have not resulted in an arrest. Yes. Ponder that. In the history of large scale hacks, how often is it that the purpetrator (lol) has not been caught?

    The true situation is much, much more complex that people realize. The mix is extraordinary.

    Reasons for why the PM didn’t want to pursue “Rawshark”?

    One: Slater and Co initially created the idea of a super hacker to cover his arse but hilariously real super hackers were monitoring him in real time.

    Another breather who unfortunately left a trail of sorts is an activist authorities don’t dare arrest because the dirt he has is even worse, much, much worse and damaging. GCSB and industry related.

    Another is a woman with such just cause very few in the NZ public, no matter how mean they may have become, would abide her persecution I bet – and they bet too clearly.

    Oh and there’s others… It’s an open joke among hackers how open the systems of Slater, that slithery insect, were. He should be grateful to the hackers he so loathes. They have standards or morals to such a degree that they have agreed to draw a line (for example, Cam, concerning your porn browsing history). Because they believe people deserve to have a private life however “deviant” their sexual proclivities, and the right to some semblance of dignity, even if they don’t deserve it. That’s right, Cam: some of them have had that used against them by the security services you praise so much. I’m afraid they operate to a much higher ethical standard.

    Will anyone ever get to the bottom of it? Well the truth is they mostly have and for the above and other reasons it won’t come out. The PM won’t be naming anyone, not when he knows certain anonymous people have records of him discussing the bailout of MediaWorks with Joyce is some pretty sweary, morally dubious terms; Records of Bennett as well as English liasing with Indonesian human traffickers; Collins making illegal deals with the Chinese; Simon Bridges arranging for future backhanders with Oil and gas companies…

    If this comment gets through, know, players listed above, that we know all your weaknesses. We have documents for East Germany and dirt for Africa. But you know that don’t you? You rely on the fact that the public doesn’t care: that it doesn’t care about the minutiae of your business, of the shady deals you do, for example, to not underground power wires in Auckland even though it’s ultimately cheaper because of a dodgy background deal with one of your blue chip monopolies…. could run to 500 pages but due to go clubbing just shortly…

    We are here, we are not going away, and any move (or more moves) you make against us will result in devastating leaks. But you know that.

    We have communicated what we expect. And recently you have been coming to the party at least in terms of prosecuting migrant labour abuses. Smiley face and big tick!

    But we are not going away. We know you purposefully did not consult with Maori over the Kermadecs. It’s not the first time you have tried to use Tangata Whenua (sorry, the Maori Party who are hardly representational) to shoot down labour and environmental issues at sea. Remember when the Maori Party changed their mind at the last moment in respect of the foreign charter legislation? They looked freaked out, didn’t they…. I wonder why. Don’t forget who you are dealing with. You cannot arrest us, we know too much – and you know that very well now don’t you?

    We know you know who we are. Hell, we don’t even bother to hide ourselves to mr LP. Top bloke.

    Until soon

  13. Puckish Rogue 14

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics/mike-pence-tim-kaine-vp-debate-poll/index.html

    Will this help people vote Trump knowing Pence is in background, will this deter people voting Clinton if they think she might not last the distance and Kaine has to take over or will voters just ignore what happened as they’ve already made up their minds?

    • Andre 14.1

      Maybe Kaine wasn’t looking to “win” the debate, maybe he was looking for material to use to win the “after-debate” and thereby help win the election.

      http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/mission-accomplished–6

      Do watch the attack ad Clinton’s team has already put out, it’s brutal.

      • Puckish Rogue 14.1.1

        Quite possibly his tactics though I’m leaning towards the whole people have already made up their minds bit, it might make a couple of Trump voters feel a bit better in their choice but that’s probably about it

      • Colonial Viper 14.1.2

        Clinton is outspending Trump at least 30 to 1.

        But everyone knows that she’s so shit, that it barely moves the dial.

        • lprent 14.1.2.1

          That is because Trump acts like such a buffoon that he attracts a whole lot of free media. The problem for Trump’s supporters is that he really is a incompetent, self-entitled, and an ineffective narcissistic buffoon who trades on being good at media attention rather than being effective at the mechanics of actual politics.

          Basically he is a classic useless arsehole with a mouth and not much else.

          This has been getting clearer and clearer as the haze from the multiplicity of the primaries clears. It appears quite unlikely that Trump will be able to carry the election. He is just entertainment that went out of a control because the Republicans had a confused primary.

          • Colonial Viper 14.1.2.1.1

            I would agree with your position on Trump’s free media exposure helping him -except that the overwhelming balance of that media exposure displays him as a racist misogynist incompetent “buffoon.”

            btw I still think that Trump will win easily, and looking at Hillary’s competence in Ukraine and Libya and Syria, I’m still happy to say that Trump’s incompetence is preferable.

            • Andre 14.1.2.1.1.1

              I’m curious CV. Given that Trump, by any objective assessment, genuinely is a racist misogynist incompetent buffoon, how do you think the media should display him?

              • Colonial Viper

                It doesn’t matter. Fewer and fewer “deplorables” and “irredeemables” believe the MSM’s increasingly blatant lying.

                By the way, I read all the MSM coverage of how a vote for BREXIT was going to lead to chaos and a destructive loss of confidence in the UK economy.

                Now just 3 months later the FTSE has climbed back to its record highs.

            • TheExtremist 14.1.2.1.1.2

              It’s not the media who display him as a racist misogynist incompetent buffoon, it’s Trumps own words that make him a racist misogynist incompetent buffoon.

          • McFlock 14.1.2.1.2

            I think the reason Trump nuked the primaries this year was simply because he was up against something like 16 others. As the loudest one in the crowd, he stood out. I think the Democrats had maybe a couple of others beyond Sanders and Clinton, but they dropped out quickly.

            Now it’s down to 1 on 1, he’s still just as loud and outrageous because he can’t help himself, but Clinton has the uninterrupted space to set him up for more foot-in-mouth outbreaks (like doubling-down on calling women fat).

          • Siobhan 14.1.2.1.3

            He is just entertainment that went out of a control because the Republicans had a confused primary….and the Democrats ran someone so deeply problematic that even the Dem. friendly Press couldn’t even mention her name without being greeted by a deluge of scorn.

  14. Morrissey 15

    Video has emerged of Aaron Smith’s escapade in the Disabled Restroom

  15. Andre 16

    Some interesting speculation on some actual loopholes in US tax laws that Trump may have been taking advantage of in claiming his $916million “loss”.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-best-theory-weve-seen-173426219.html

    And to save CV some time “it’s Killary’s fault”.

    Except that it isn’t, and she voted to fix the loophole in 2002.

    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      Hillary caught using a child actor to set up a question on Trump’s misogyny

      At a Hillary Clinton town hall yesterday in Haverford, Pennsylvania, a 15 year old girl was supposedly “chosen at random” to ask a question of the former Secretary of State. But, the well-scripted performance raised some suspicion with a YouTuber named Spanglevision who decided to dig a little deeper. And, wouldn’t you know it, the “random” participant was none other than child actor, Brennan Leach, whose father just happens to be Pennsylvania democratic State Senator Daylin Leach. Oh, and in case it wasn’t obvious, Daylin supports Hillary for president…shocking.

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-05/clinton-caught-using-child-actor-ask-planted-question-pennsylvania-townhall

      • Andre 16.1.1

        Thanks CV, I knew I could count on you for a hilariously irrelevant diversion.

        • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.1

          You call it “irrelevant” but it speaks to the heart of the dirty political arts that the “pay for play” Clinton camp is well practiced in.

          • katipo 16.1.1.1.1

            Yup she’s no Messiah but compared to Trump ….
            John Oliver on the subject ..

          • TheExtremist 16.1.1.1.2

            Well it is irrelevant because it had nothing to do with the original comment.

            You made two logical fallacies in a single post. Congrats!

      • Puckish Rogue 16.1.2

        Lets be honest, as soon as the question was asked it was pretty obvious it was a set up:

        “Hi Madam Secretary. I’m Brennan and I’m 15 years old. At my school, body image is a really big issue for girls my age. I see with my own eyes the damage Donald Trump does when he talks about women and how they look. As the first female president how would you undo some of that damage and help girls understand that they’re so much more than just what they look like?”

        so not really a big deal I’d have thought because I’m sure Trump will have his set question as well

        • marty mars 16.1.2.1

          Yeps trumps one could be, ‘Mr trump I am a law abiding citizen who cares for his country. I pay my taxes and work hard for our country, my community in appleburg and my family. What do yo say to someone like me.
          Trump. I have an investment there, a terrific investment, as you know I’m a terrific investor I’m really smart, terrifically smart. Next question.

          • Colonial Viper 16.1.2.1.1

            Except you’re busy making that up, while Clinton’s child actor has been found out and confirmed.

            That girl is going to make an awesome Young Democrat one day.

            • McFlock 16.1.2.1.1.1

              omg
              a patsy question was asked by a supporter at an election event. It might even have been prearranged. The end is nigh!

              She already is an awesome young Democrat. You’re just pissed because Trump looks like a zombie when he reads an autocue and can’t hold a script in his head for longer than twenty seconds.

    • Paul 16.2

      Everything Christopher Hitchens ever said about Hillary Clinton .

      • Paul 16.2.1

        Christopher Hitchens — Speaking Honestly About Hillary Clinton

        • Psycho Milt 16.2.1.1

          Hitchens thought the invasion of Iraq was a good idea. Being clever and eloquent doesn’t make you always right.

          • Colonial Viper 16.2.1.1.1

            Hillary’s best bit of foreign policy experience was “her pretense to have been under fire in Bosnia when she was not.”

          • swordfish 16.2.1.1.2

            “Hitchens thought the invasion of Iraq was a good idea.”

            As, of course, did Hillary.

            How, precisely, does this undermine Hitchens’ critique of his fellow born-again neo-con ???

            • Paul 16.2.1.1.2.1

              Hilary has thought every war was a good idea.
              As you would, if you accept substantial donations from the military/industrial complex.

              http://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/weapons-manufacturers-support-hillary-clinton-more-than-any-other-presidential-candidate/

              http://19453-presscdn.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/w8M4Zxnv.png

            • Psycho Milt 16.2.1.1.2.2

              Posting Hitchens’ opinions of Hillary Clinton is effectively an appeal to authority – in which case, it’s reasonable to point out that the authority isn’t necessarily correct.

              As to his critique, there isn’t much of one in there, other than that he thought she had little foreign policy experience in 2008 and was prone to lying about her achievements (and her a politician! How could she?!). The bulk of it is just those clever Hitch-slaps that make you bloody glad he never heard of you – he certainly didn’t like her, but there isn’t much of a substantive critique in any of that.

              • Colonial Viper

                “The Clintons never met a foreign donor that they didn’t like.”

              • Morrissey

                You’re out of your depth, Psycho Milt. You need to stop posting and start reading. Books, that is.

                • Paul

                  Here are some suggestions.

                  Clinton Cash: The Untold Story of How and Why Foreign Governments and Businesses Helped Make Bill and Hillary Rich.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Cash

                  False Choices: The Faux Feminism of Hillary Rodham Clinton
                  https://www.versobooks.com/books/2121-false-choices

                  • Morrissey

                    I don’t expect him to actually do any reading, Paul. He seems too smug and indolent to do anything other than trolling the net.

                  • From your link to the hatchet job “Clinton Cash:”

                    Pilkington notes that several of the claims in the book have been proven factually false. According to Pilkington, Schweizer does not prove corruption on the part of the Clintons, nor does he provide any evidence.

                    …a film adaptation of the book, funded by co-founder of Government Accountability Institute and Breitbart News executive chairman Stephen Bannon (emphasis mine)

                    From your link to the feminist hatchet job:

                    …the irrational right-wing hatred of Clinton has fed her progressive appeal…

                    Yup. Choice company you’re keeping there. The thing I find interesting is how a fairly ordinary presidential candidate like Hillary Clinton manages to generate such virulent hatred at the loonier ends of the political matrix. There’ll be research papers in it for historians, sociologists and political scientists for decades to come.

                  • McFlock

                    lol

                    Soooooo – interesting comments in the “critical reception” bit of your wikipedia article…

  16. katipo 17

    Mall of America takes bold stand by closing on Thanksgiving this year
    “We’ve been talking about this for months, looking at the numbers, looking at the pros and the cons,” said Jill Renslow, the mall’s senior vice president of marketing and business development. “We’re excited to give this day back to our employees so they can celebrate with their families.”
    http://www.startribune.com/mall-of-america-takes-bold-stand-by-closing-on-thanksgiving-this-year/396016881/

    meanwhile in NZ..
    The Shop Trading Hours Act 1990 was amended in 2016 to enable territorial authorities to decide whether retailers in their districts can open on Easter Sunday.
    http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/employment-skills/legislation-reviews/easter-sunday-shop-trading

  17. I usually listen to Radio Live for 30min before I turn over for the night.
    Last night was continuous racism of the worst type.,So bad I turned off .
    What ever has happened to our tolerant society . Have Muslims taken the place

  18. I usually listen to radio Live talk back for 30min before I turn over to sleep .Last night was so racist i had to turn off early.Whatever has happened to our once tolerant country .And are

  19. I usually listen to Radio Live talk-back before turning over to sleep .
    Last night was so racist I turned off early.What is happening to our tolerant country .Have Muslims unfortunately taken the place were Jewish were placed in in the 1930s?

  20. Continue above.. Muslims taking the unfortunate place Jewish people had in the 1930s.

  21. finish as above.
    And are Muslims taking the place Jewish people unfortunately had in Germany in the 1930s?

    • Paul 22.1

      Best not to bother listening to Radio Live.
      Full ignorant and opinionated comment.
      Just like the Panel.

  22. Penny Bright 23

    It seems that The Spinoff, after interviewing social media marketing CONsultant, Chloe Swarbrick ( but not myself) about our recent ‘spat’ – where I called her out, have not published my side of the story?

    (Mind you – given that it’s The Spinoff – no real surprises there ….)

    The effective CENSORSHIP of anti-corporate 1% 2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright, continues ….

    ____________________________

    My ‘Open Letter’ to Hayden Donnell from The Spinoff’:

    “FYI Hayden

    Like to publish this on The Spinoff?

    Kind regards

    Penny Bright

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    4 October 2016

    Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright calls out fellow Mayoral candidate Chloe Swarbrick as a ‘social media marketing CONsultant’

    Ah Chloe Swarbrick 🙂

    Who, at just 22 has her own private marketing consultancy company called TIPS Ltd.

    https://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/5894487?backurl=%2Fcompanies%2Fapp%2Fui%2Fpages%2Fcompanies%2Fsearch%3Fq%3DTips%2520Ltd%2520%26mode%3Dstandard%26advancedPanel%3Dtru

    TIPS LIMITED (5894487) Registered

    What a WONDERFUL thing to be able to put on your future (corporate marketing ) CV!

    That because of your social media marketing ‘savvy’ – you were able to, in my opinion, (suck in) oops! ‘persuade’ thousands of Aucklanders to vote for you, because you presented as a fresh-faced millennial, purportedly advocating for the disadvantaged and disenfranchised – while simultaneously supporting privatisation via Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs), and intensification via the Auckland Unitary Plan.

    Sorry Chloe, but as fellow Auckland Mayoral candidate, I’m calling you out as, in my opinion, an effective mouthpiece for multi-national companies and commercial property developers.

    In my view, the Auckland voting public have been CONNED, by yet another CONsultant.

    Sold a ‘pup’ – who is actually, in my view, a neo-liberal ‘wolf cub’, who actually is not actively opposed to the corrupt, corporate 1%, locally, nationally, or internationally.

    (Unlike myself, who is and has been actively opposed to the following mechanisms of corrupt corporate control for years, Council (Corporate) Controlled Organisations (CCOs), Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) and the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA), for years.

    However, in my view, Chloe, you would not have been as successful in your very social media savvy ‘marketing’ ploy, without the assistance of mainstream corporate media?

    Just calling it as I see it, as a proven ‘anti-corruption whistle-blower’.

    I expect many won’t like it.

    So be it.

    ……

    Penny Bright

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

    ‘Anti-privatisation / anti- corruption Public Watchdog’

    • Ad 23.1

      Told with all the graciousness we have come to expect.

      Chloe Swarbrick is everything you are not:

      – Charming
      – Accomplished
      – Attractive to voters
      – A voice from a new generation
      – Gracious
      – Likely to go on to far greater things

      So why not keep all your bile to yourself.
      At least until the results are published.

      Or are we going to see another repeat of last time, in which you sat with your mates screaming and jeering at the candidates who won as they were inducted into Council?

      • save nz 23.1.1

        Maybe corrupt Auckland Transport will support Chloe, they have paid approx 50k to Patrick Reynolds on Transport blog.

        • Sacha 23.1.1.1

          AT say they paid Mr Reynolds $41k over 5 years for his professional photography services. I’ll let him speak for himself about your slur: http://transportblog.co.nz/2016/10/04/confessions-of-an-auckland-voter-why-i-voted-for-chloe/#comment-222677

        • lprent 23.1.1.2

          …they have paid approx 50k to Patrick Reynolds on Transport blog.

          Yeah, over many years for doing work in his professional area. Incidentally, the sheer hypocrisy of Bomber’s argument is quite astounding. From my viewpoint, Bomber is way more compromised by his funding that Patrick Reynolds is. Bomber probably squanders that amount collected from interested organisations every year.

          The guy laps up union funds for his little self-promotional job project like they were candy. While it often seems that TDB is mostly about himself, he also does a considerable amount of publicity for unions and presumably for his other funders.

          This is the only major political blog that has nothing much to do with what the site’s operators and authors do professionally. Sure Mickey and Ben stand for elections. Others like Stephanie or Helen work for unions periodically. But everyone writes what they want to and material that is self-interested is very clearly marked voluntarily by the authors.

          How do we finance? Effectively I pay for the site (and the legal bills), with help from donations. And in my professional life, I either code for startups or corps provided they export IP. Can’t exactly see that showing up in what I write eh? It certainly doesn’t get funded by ANY interested organisation.

          Perhaps you should take that as a bench mark and evaluate Bombers hypocrisy by that.

          If you want to slag off other bloggers for their profession because of what a self-interested narcissistic and spitefully jealous personality asserts about them, then be my guest. However, I’m likely to just treat it as simple minded trolling unless you can come up with something apart from looking like a simple parrot who has a problem thinking.

          • Colonial Viper 23.1.1.2.1

            And the fees he took doing such a great consulting job for the Internet Party

      • Colonial Viper 23.1.2

        Is Chlöe Swarbrick that young wannabe politician with no life experience?

        Perfect female Mayor for Auckland, as a stepping stone to being an outstanding Prime Minister for NZ.

        Also I love her preferred use of those nice little accent marks. It signals a certain kind of distinguished education and mindset.

        And I found this on the ‘net”

        She enrolled in a BA…She started a clothing label…She became a patron of the arts…She finished her BA and started a law degree…She graduated, and started a marketing consultancy.

        This all sounds like a load of fucking bullshit but some people will lap it up as being the best thing since sliced bread.

        Question: how much money and connections do her family have.

        • weka 23.1.2.1

          That’s kind of like people deciding you’re an arse because you are also a chiropracter. Judge the person on what they say and do, not on what prejudices you hold about their labels. I can’t see anything wrong with the list of jobs she has had.

          By bullshit do you mean the list is a lie?

          • Colonial Viper 23.1.2.1.1

            Judge the person on what they say and do

            On what she does?

            OK well, I just found out that she is also a fashion designer. And she owns a cafe. That’s on top of the two BA and LLB, starting her own fashion label, launching a marketing consultancy firm, being a “patron of the arts”, and now also candidate for mayor.

            So yeah, I judged based on that. BTW how old is she again?

            Reminds me of the Elizabeth Holmes story in the USA, a brilliant smart successful self made billionaire by 29 years old.

            I can’t see anything wrong with the list of jobs she has had.

            She’s hardly had any “jobs.” I wonder how her team mates at 2 degrees found her.

            • weka 23.1.2.1.1.1

              Citation for her having had hardly any jobs.

              You’re a snob CV. Saying that someone who’s been at uni a lot is deficient is not that different than saying that someone who hasn’t been at uni a lot is deficient. By judge someone on what they say and do, I meant in relation to the politics and the role (of Mayor). Not seeing much in your critique about that, just a load of bigotry apparently based on your perceptions of class.

              You’re also a dick. Swarbrick’s been working as a journalist for the past few years. Bearing in mind that she’s 22 and holds two undergrad degrees (ie she’s been at uni most of the time since she left school), the list of things she’s done suggests someone who is active, motivated and involved in the community.

              Your shit tinted glasses are on too tight today CV. Try looking at her politics (which I don’t know much about other than she is wanting to get young people involved in politics).

              • Colonial Viper

                OK so at 22 she’s been a fashion designer, started a fashion label, worked for 2degrees, owns a cafe, is a “patron of the arts”, got a BA, got an LLB, launched a marketing consultancy firm, has been working as a journalist for 2 years and is now running for Mayor.

                • You sound spiteful and jealous like the blight. People can do more than 1 thing at once you know. Your judgement is flawed beyond recall and certainly beyond belief you sad loser.

                • alwyn

                  “OK so at 22”
                  Wow. I found that quite impressive. You seem however seem to think that no one can accomplish all those things by that age.
                  Perhaps I can refer you to Isaac Newton.
                  He had a very slow start but by about that age he had come up with a good explanation of Optics, developed his laws of motion and his law of gravitation. He had also, as a little side-line, developed Calculus and the generalised binomial theorem..
                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton
                  Perhaps she has really done all the things she claims.

            • TheExtremist 23.1.2.1.1.2

              I looked at your website CV, you have hardly had any “jobs” either.

              • Colonial Viper

                Huh?

                • TheExtremist

                  On your website, the about/bio page (not linking as I don’t know how public you are with your private persona…though you have openly stated it here). From that I don’t see you have had many “jobs”, as you put it

            • save nz 23.1.2.1.1.3

              Great PR for your Chloe’s marketing firm by running for Mayor. I guess public office is about self promotion now rather than actually ‘the public’ side of things.

              I guess that is why Ralston is the preferred candidate to Mike Lee via the Spinoff panel.

              I just don’t understand why the lefties are so taken in by it all. In the old days you had ernest young things trying to save the world and the planet trying to get into politics now it’s Xero marketers, Cafe marketers, Social media marketers…

              Sorry I can’t get in on this leftie Chloe orgie of love because I actually read her policies which don’t seem Green, left or helpful to the young.

              I don’t think most of the public are buying it either judging by the 18% turnout.

              If you make public office about self promotion, all the candidates seem to have the same policies and then tell everyone Phil Goff has won it already, it’s a turn off.

              • Colonial Viper

                Great PR for your Chloe’s marketing firm by running for Mayor. I guess public office is about self promotion now rather than actually ‘the public’ side of things.

                BOOOOOOM

                Unlike some others, you spotted the obvious straight away, save nz.

                • weka

                  Pity you were incapable of explaining it then.

                • mickysavage

                  Jeez CV how about you leave the Auckland politics to the grown ups. I have met Chloe and seen her speak a few times and I know the dynamics of the different campaigns. Attacking her is about as valid as supporting Donald Trump.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Dunno if you were ever trained to pick up inconsistencies in people’s CVs but hers is all over the place.

                    • mickysavage

                      You have no idea. I have multiple comments from a variety of people who I trust about her and I have met her and seen her perform at meetings. She is the same age as my youngest daughter. To expect her to have a perfectly formed CV and a policy platform that will satisfy all lefties is a big ask. No politician I have met has been able to achieve this.

                      I was tempted to vote for her, in the hope that she would poll second and beat Crone, Palino and Thomas. This would be a huge statement to the powers that be.

                      Don’t diss her. She has run the best mayoral super city campaign in Auckland I have seen and I can assure you I have an appreciation of them.

                      Attacking her but supporting Trump is a rather strange place for a lefty to be in …

                    • McFlock

                      Good job, mickey – you just showed an ability to point out a CV inconsistency 🙂

                    • TheExtremist

                      “No politician I have met has been able to achieve this.”

                      Except Trump and Putin of course

                      EDIT: +1 McFlock = lol

                    • Colonial Viper

                      *Shrug*

                      Self made billionaire 29 year old Elizabeth Holmes had plenty of ability, charm and convincing conversation too.

                      But I’m hearing you, I’ll leave you Aucklanders to it, you’re doing a great job of running your city after all, good luck with it.

                      EDIT someone get her to run for the left in Auckland Central, at least I can say that it would be an improvement, however long term I see her going a different way.

                    • McFlock

                      🙄

                      Did you end up casting thinly-veiled aspersions on a candidate because her CV made you look inadequate?

                      Delicate wee snowflake, aintcha

              • weka

                Not sure where this leftie love orgie is happening (did you make that up?). I was hoping that CV might focus on her politics, but apparently making judgements about one’s work life is where it’s at. Ironic, given your comment about old school vs new school.

                In the old days you had ernest young things trying to save the world and the planet trying to get into politics now it’s Xero marketers, Cafe marketers, Social media marketers…

                Sure. It’s the post-neoliberalism generations. That’s what the old days raised them to do. I think the problem here is that they’re often not into party politics, so there is a divide between their values, and ours. Slagging them off for being successful in terms of the mainstream culture doesn’t seem like it’s going to improve things.

                • On the fence

                  I read this blog a fair bit and as a righty I seldom comment. I’m inclined to ask what evidence Penny, CV or whomever has to prove Chloe was running PR for her company? Secondly who gives a toss?

                  Regardless of her politics she has put herself out there and wants to do more than just sit back and bitch about the society she lives in. You can do that in two ways: vote or be involved.

                  She chose both and good on her for doing so. When I was her age I honestly couldn’t think past what I was doing that weekend with my mates and how much money I could spend on beer.

                  From what I have read about her she is a candidate for the left so I would not vote for her being a righty. I do however respect candidates for What their politics are not for what their professional back ground is. Sorry to say CV but you sound like a boring old man attacking her over the above. That being said I can also she pays her rates making her in my mind far more appealing than penny 10 times out of ten.

              • TheExtremist66

                I’m a Digital Marketing Specialist….. you got a problem with that?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Feed the capitalist machine and get paid well for it, why not milk the system while you can.

                • save nz

                  @TheExtremist66

                  Yes I have a problem with all these Marketing specialists running for Mayor. Sorry we have big problems in Auckland that need real solutions, not a marketeer putting a rosy gloss on the situation. I would prefer a choice of a range of candidates that actually used to have a job that achieves something real rather than a job that is to put a spin on a situation or product. Or has some sort of activism, social conscience or some evidence they have achieved something for the community not just themselves.

                  Additionally I would like some policy in their campaign that actually means something. Yes the Natz also say they love cycling and want affordable housing too, but what they have done has provided the opposite. When the family on the street can’t afford the rates of their modest bungalow while the McMansion which has 7 toilets and pool on the same land size pays the same rates which seems to be Chloe’s anti progressive rateing policy and the left support that vision, I can see why the left votes keep getting split.

                  And if you rent, do you really think your rent will decrease if your properties rates are subsiding the richer neighbours improvements?

                  Real vision, real policy please.

              • One Two

                There are too many suckers in the world prepared to swallow any nonsense they’re fed

                A cursory look into the background and bio spells out the push stunt this actually is

                So called lefties are being mocked and laughed at by the right as they swoon around the ‘leftie honey trap’

                Some folk need to reconform what left evn means in political terms

    • Sacha 23.2

      It’s not a ‘spat’ it’s you smearing another candidate with your tired hatred. Get a real hobby.

  23. Brutus Iscariot 24

    The whole Aaron Smith thing is completely pathetic.

    It’s the bitter hobbits of Middle NZ, outraged at the thought that someone out there is getting laid. Puritanical, neurotic, jealous. You could write a psychological paper on the national reaction.

    Punish the real shit, not this.

    • Draco T Bastard 24.1

      Interestingly enough, it’s usually the RWNJs that are so puritanical, that demand to have a say in others personal lives. Just look at the abortion debate.

      • Puckish Rogue 24.1.1

        My own personal view is that whatever happens between consenting adults is their own business and no ones else

        However there’s a time and a place for everything and public toilet isn’t one of those places but then he has form for this kind of carry on

        Hopefully with TJ playing well it’ll send a message for Smith

        • Gangnam Style 24.1.1.1

          He’s being punished for harming the brand, Weetbix & other ‘wholesome’ brands do not want to be associated with randy dickheads & Tew & crew also get to sound like they getting ‘tough’ on this kinda thing.

          • Puckish Rogue 24.1.1.1.1

            Sounds about right

          • Brutus Iscariot 24.1.1.1.2

            That’s the employer side of it, no doubt.

            But there’s also the shrill media crucifixion, which remains telling.

            • Gangnam Style 24.1.1.1.2.1

              Clickbait, sex + seedy sex + AB = hot news. I await the media hounding the woman involved, Womens Weekly spot? I am quite surprised at the public backlash too, obviously people do hold up the ABs as something ‘theirs’ which is bizarre to me as I see them as a marketing tool like Coke of McDs.

          • Petertwo 24.1.1.1.3

            If a talented young athlete is bad for the AB branding because he has a quick liaison in a loo, what does on make of the sponsor (AIG) that has either screwed Christchurch residents or held out on making payments for five years in the hope that fatigue will see their clients fold to get over it. Seems Tew needs to chew that one over two.

  24. save nz 25

    Looks like Clark missed out on the UN job. And also looks like the US did not support her. So much for Key’s special relationship with Obama and the NZ special relationship with the US.

    It’s about time our government realised that NZ is a blip and not matter how matey we are with the US, UK or with China or anyone else they will always back someone else and their own people and corporations who they can gain more from or use their power to try to benefit their interests.

    Allowing both China and the US to dictate and control our foreign and trade policy is going to end in disaster.

    Key who would give up his own grandmother for a photo op with someone famous. Need more troops, just a handshake and a smile and they are deployed unlike Clark who always drove a harder bargain.

  25. Draco T Bastard 26

    All current funding proposals are about shifting around existing funds. There is no further investment and no recognition that quality public education is vital and deserves real and sustained financial support.

    It would be easy to say the education reforms lack imagination and are simply a lazy reiteration of failed policies of the 1990s. However, that would be to ignore the clear vision that drives them. It’s a vision that privileges the private sector, which creates schools as competing business units and pretends poverty and unfairness don’t matter.

    When public education becomes yet another thing we may lose, along with the dream that hard work meant you could leave poverty behind, own your own home and balance a 40-hour working week with leisure time, we will wonder why we let it go so easily and ask what we gained instead.

    The right wing will then tell us joylessly that we got choice. And when that happens we will know we got conned. Again.

    National are the radical right-wing fringe.

    • TheExtremist 26.1

      Hardly “fringe”

      • Draco T Bastard 26.1.1

        They have a lot of voters but that doesn’t mean that the party itself isn’t fringe. In fact, just look at some of the supporters here who declare that National isn’t going far enough with the hard right-wing policies.

        National is definitely radical but they’re toning it down so as not to lose voters/power.

        • TheExtremist 26.1.1.1

          I wouldn’t consider a party that consistently wins with over 40% of votes as “fringe”.

          • Draco T Bastard 26.1.1.1.1

            It’s not the votes that counts but the people who actually control the party which is neither the voters nor the members.

  26. Morrissey 28

    “Syrian onslaught”… “Russian aggression” …”ever wilder legislation”—
    The Qatari dictatorship’s official TV channel never lets up on the propaganda.

    Al Jazeera News, 3 p.m., Thursday 6 October 2016

    Anyone who watches the Qatari dictatorship’s Al Jazeera TV channel for any length of time will soon realize that it is anything but a fair and balanced television channel. We have dealt with this unrelentingly anti-Houthi, anti-Syrian, anti-Iranian outlet and its retinue of English and Kiwi reporters before. [1]

    An egregious, yet typical, example of this never-ending stream of propaganda came from the mouth of “reporter” Rory Challands in Moscow this afternoon. Ostensibly covering the opening of the Russian Parliament, Challands (no doubt under orders) used the occasion as a chance to unleash a swingeing rhetorical attack on one of the main enemies of the Qatari dictatorship.

    “The legislature has been churning out ever wilder legislation, to please THIS man.” (Cut to Vladimir Putin, looking ominous, silently presiding over the parliament.) A little later, Challands intones darkly about how what Putin is doing is “a recreation of the Stalin era.”

    In stark contrast to this inflammatory tone employed against the official enemy, Barnaby Phillips in Birmingham is beamingly effusive and unrelentingly positive in his coverage of Theresa May at the Conservative Party conference.

    Open mike 22/10/2015

    Open mike 04/10/2015

  27. b waghorn 29

    This is from a fb site nz farming,come on labour get out and educate and look after rural workers.

    ”As a follow up to our earlier post regarding a boss who was upset about a worker taking sick leave, shit has got MESSY”

    ”Hey guys, thanks for putting up my post regarding sick leave. I’m still sick and have just spent the night in hospital after being diagnosed with leptospirosis. I’m still here and sounds as though I could be a few days, now my boss is saying he needs a room in my house for someone to stay to cover me. Is this something that is normal, or even allowed? (My house is my house not like single mans quaeters). I don’t know who the person is nor if they intend on using my things or what? Seeing ive been ill for almost a week and haven’t been home in 24 hours, you can imagine my house is quite untidy. Some input would be good. He has been rather rude as my family has come down from auckland to waikato to stay and look after me when I’m out of here but he said to them they need to go and stay in a motel. I don’t consider that professional nor courteous. Long term I’m looking to move on but until then what are my options????”

  28. Leftie 30

    Concerns over future of Maori Land Court

    “Opposition parties want assurances the Maori Land Court won’t be undermined by Ministry of Justice restructuring proposals. A consultation paper distributed to ministry staff is reported to propose cutting 165 positions and creating 114 new jobs.”

    “It appears the Maori Land Court is being undermined and hollowed out in advance of the government implementing the reforms,” the party’s co-leader Metiria Turei said on Thursday.”

    “Labour’s Meka Whaitiri says Maori landowners deserve answers about the changes.
    “This can’t be viewed as a normal restructure within a public service department,” she said.”

    <a href="https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/32820502/concerns-over-future-of-maori-land-court/#page1

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    2 weeks ago
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  • A Progressive Agenda
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