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Open mike 22/10/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 22nd, 2015 - 168 comments
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168 comments on “Open mike 22/10/2015 ”

  1. Paul 1

    Another piece of utter propaganda in the Herlad.
    Could have been written by some our RWNJs who visit this site…

    Claire Trevett sucking up to Key again.

    ‘Little’s a jinx and Key’s a curse – just don’t tell ABs’

    This excerpt is particularly appalling

    ‘Labour did try to justify its breach of the jinx rules by claiming it was simply because Little was optimistic and upbeat. If so it was the only thing he has been optimistic about of late.
    Some things justify it – the detainees in Christmas Island, for example. But Little has griped about everything from the TPP, the economy and the surplus to the flag referendum and pandas. It should not have come as a surprise that he went to just 8 per cent in the recent Colmar Brunton poll.’

    Standing up to the TPP, being concerned about the state of our economy, questioning the distractions Key discusses to keep people distracted equals griping!

    And she even repeats Key’s 8% meme.
    And ignores 32 + 11 + 9.

    Tory propagandist, Trevett.

    • tc 1.1

      Trevitt lives up nationals butt shilling their memes and normally goes on shonkys junkets to advance their cause. Pretty poor standard of writing also imo given her intent as theres no subtelty just obvious bias.

      • savenz 1.1.1

        Trevitt is repulsive. Labour should do the opposite of any of her advice, Little are on 8% because of the rumours Labour’s support TPP. Trevitt is probably on the Natz pay roll as their patsy, nothing new there.

    • The Chairman 1.2

      We can add Catherine Beard to the propaganda touting list.


      • Paul 1.2.1

        From Wikipedia, some research for Catherine Beard below.

        ”The New Zealand Institute of Economic Research (NZIER) is a think tank based in New Zealand. It is non-profit incorporated society and was established in 1958. Directors have included Alan Bollard and Brian Easton. Ron Trotter was a chair.’

        Tips for her as a journalist.
        Check your sources.
        If the NZIER say the investor state clauses aren’t a threat, that doesn’t make it a fact. It is an opinion.
        Who funds them?
        Who are members?
        Do they have vested interests?

        etc etc

        The NZ MSM is just so mediocre and so biased.

        • savenz

          Another far right wing lobby group hiding behind the ‘think tank’ moniker.

          • srylands

            That is such crap. They are a mainstream economic consultancy with a public interest provision in their charter.

            There are no “far right” lobby groups in New Zealand!

            The relentless negativity here is appalling.

        • The Chairman

          The provisions are there to protect and uphold the interests of New Zealand exporters and that of international corporates.

          Catherine Beard works with government and other key decision makers on issues of concern to exporters.

          Could this be part of National’s charm offensive?

          It would be good to see the opposition commissioning reports to counter such arguments being put forward by Beard.

    • Morrissey 1.3

      Trevett, like the Herald‘s rugby writers, probably knows little or nothing about rugby, but even she will be aware that the All Blacks’ highly controversial status as RWC champions has nothing to do with any jinx by any politician, but has everything to do with the refusal of Craig Joubert to stop the All Black forwards—especially but not only McCaw, Hore, and Kaino—from repeatedly and flagrantly cheating and killing nearly every contest for the ball.

      • Paul 1.3.1

        What about Joubert’s refereeing of the Scotland vs Australia match?
        Your view?

        • Morrissey

          My view is pretty much the same as everyone else’s, apart from the few sad people like Keith Quinn and Brendan “Chainsaw” Laney, who have felt compelled to defend the indefensible.

      • Puckish Rogue 1.3.2

        Morrissey, the ABs have been on the receiving end of some howlers and they’ve been the recipients of some howlers as well, its just the price to pay for having one referee on the field

        • Morrissey

          The All Blacks didn’t simply receive the benefit of a few “howlers” by Craig Joubert in the 2011 final, they “benefited”—if you can use that word for a pyrrhic victory—from a referee who blatantly and systematically refused to do his job.

          When have the All Blacks ever suffered from a display comparable to what we witnessed in 2011?

          • Andrew


          • Puckish Rogue

            1995 rugby world cup final v south Africa when the pass to Jonah Lomu was ruled forward when it clearly wasn’t

            2007 rugby world cup quarter final v France when the French through a forward pass and it wasn’t called

            Bad calls happen all the time

            • Morrissey

              1995 rugby world cup final v south Africa when the pass to Jonah Lomu was ruled forward when it clearly wasn’t

              That’s a fair call. But then, of course, South Africa shouldn’t have even been in that final; France was robbed in the semi-final.

              2007 rugby world cup quarter final v France when the French through [sic] a forward pass and it wasn’t called

              In the first half, McAlister scored a try following a forward pass by Dan Carter. Why did you not mention that?

              Bad calls happen all the time

              They happen occasionally. The problem with Joubert in 2011 was his refusal to make any call at all, not just in a single case but repeatedly. Just have a look at the disbelief and despair on the faces of the French players as, time after time, he does nothing to stop the All Blacks destroying the match.

              • Andrew

                Not even talking about the forward pass, even though it was so far forward it should have been impossible to miss, i’m talking about the completely lob sided penalty count. The All Blacks awarded only 2 penalties, and none at all in the second half despite constant infringing at the breakdown. The AB’s had complete territorial domination with rucks and mauls, but were not awarded a bunch of penalties that they should have been.

                Sure, the AB’s should never have let it get to that, but in sport sometimes these things happen. Error’s occur on both sides, and for you to say that the AB’s should not have won the last world cup, is to put it lightly, complete bollocks.

                • Morrissey

                  1.) …should have been impossible to miss

                  It happened at great speed, and while armchair critics like you and me saw it, not one of the All Blacks saw it or complained about it. Similarly, not one of the French players complained about the forward pass that led to McAlister’s try in the first half.

                  2.) The All Blacks awarded only 2 penalties, and none at all in the second half despite constant infringing at the breakdown.

                  The French did not infringe at all; that’s why they were not penalised. More than any other team in the world, they have been victimised by whistle-happy referees; I recommend you watch a video of the 1999 RWC final some time.

                  3.) The AB’s had complete territorial domination with rucks and mauls, but were not awarded a bunch of penalties that they should have been.

                  You are imagining things. You cannot point to one example of the French infringing, let alone “a bunch of penalties”. I don’t like that negative, fearful, defence-based football any more than others do, but it is based on staunch discipline—not something one automatically associates with the French, I know.

                  4.) Sure, the AB’s should never have let it get to that…

                  What do you mean by that? Surely the Tricolors should “never have let it get to that”. The fact is: the French got their noses in front and then effectively closed the game down. They did not infringe; that orchestrated litany of allegations only started with Bob Howitt’s pisspoor biography of Graham Henry in 2012. Nobody—except you, evidently—takes those claims seriously.

                  5.) Error’s [sic] occur on both sides, and for you to say that the AB’s should not have won the last world cup, is to put it lightly, complete bollocks.

                  Maybe the All Blacks would have won the last World Cup if it had been refereed fairly. We’ll never know, sadly.

                  • Andrew

                    “The French did not infringe at all; that’s why they were not penalised”

                    ha ha, you keep telling yourself that. Sorry, i thought you were talking about the 2007 quarter final. It must be another game you are talking about.

              • Puckish Rogue

                I didn’t mention because it wasn’t worth mentioning, the ABs get good calls for them and they get bad calls against them

                Its just how sports is

      • northshoredoc 1.3.3

        2nd rate stenographer
        3rd rate sports pundit

        • Morrissey

          northshoredoc: 2nd rate stenographer.

          MORRISSEY BREEN: Eh?

          Breen elaborately, grandly, peels kid glove from his left hand

          northshoredoc: 3rd rate sports pundit.

          MORRISSEY BREEN: W-w-what?!!??!?!? [With a well-honed backhand flicking action, he slaps northshore doc across the face with the kid glove] You, sir, are a cad.

    • Gabby 1.4

      Did she mention ‘relentless negativity’? That seems to be the phrase of the week.

    • Hami Shearlie 1.5

      Trevett is getting worse by the day – trying to be clever and failing utterly – who would actually PAY to read this crap? The paywall idea is getting funnier by the day – My mother is 87 and gets the Herald delivered – she read what Trevett wrote and said “She must really think the entire population are a bunch of morons, I won’t be renewing my subscription at Christmas!”

  2. October 20th, 2015 at 11:08 pm
    Off the chart Radiation in Cities across America due to Pacific current release

    Normal Radiation is 5 to 20 CPM. [6]
    1962 CPM, 392.4 Times Normal, Billings, MT Gamma, Beta.
    1853 CPM, 370.6 Times Normal, Louisville, KY Gamma, Beta
    1645 CPM, 329 Times Normal, Pierre, SD Gamma, Beta.
    1545 CPM, 309 Times Normal, San Diego, CA Inactive 10 -15
    1496 CPM, 299.2 Times Normal, Lexington, KY Gamma, Beta
    1425 CPM, 285 Times Normal, Miami, FL. Gamma, Beta.
    1422 CPM, 284.4 Times Normal, Portland, ME Last Reading
    1393 CPM, 278.6 Times Normal, Navajo Lake, NM Gamma, Beta.
    1355 CPM, 271 Times Normal, Mason City, IA Gamma, Beta.
    1347 CPM, 269.4 Times Normal, Denver, CO. Gamma, Beta.
    1311 CPM, 262.2 Times Normal, Rapid City, SD. Gamma, Beta.
    1311 CPM, 262.2 Times Normal, Spokane, WA. Gamma, Beta.
    1261 CPM, 252.2 Times Normal, Little Rock, AR Gamma, Beta.
    1234 CPM, 246.8 Times Normal, Kansas City, KA, Gamma, Beta.
    1228 CPM, 245.6 Times Normal, Fresno, CA Gamma, Beta.
    1221 CPM, 244.2 Times Normal, Idaho Falls, ID Gamma, Beta.
    1214 CPM, 242.8 Times Normal, Fresno, CA. Gamma, Beta.
    1214 CPM, 242.8 Times Normal, Kearney. NE Dead Inactive Oct2015
    1213 CPM, 242.6 Times Normal, Harrisburg, VA. Gamma, Beta.
    1205 CPM, 241 Times Normal, New York City, NY Gamma, Beta.
    1203 CPM, 240.6 Times Normal, Charleston, WV. Gamma, Beta.
    1171 CPM, 234.2 Times Normal, Bakersfield, CA Gamma, Beta.
    1166 CPM, 233.2 Times Normal, Tulsa, OK Gamma, Beta.
    1159 CPM, 231.8 Times Normal, Concord, NH Gamma, Beta.
    1145 CPM, 229 Times Normal, Bismark, ND. Gamma, Beta.
    1130 CPM, 226 Times Normal, Worcester, MA. Gamma, Beta.
    1121 CPM, 224.2 Times Normal, El Paso, TX. Gamma, Beta.
    1121 CPM, 224.2 Times Normal, Tucson, AZ Gamma, Beta.
    1116 CPM, 223.2 Times Normal, Memphis, TN Gamma, Beta.
    1115 CPM, 223 Times Normal, Tallahassee, FL. Gamma, Beta.
    1095 CPM, 219 Times Normal, Jefferson City, MO Gamma, Beta.
    1088 CPM, 217.6 Times Normal, Champaign, IL Gamma, Beta.
    1083 CPM, 216.6 Times Normal, Richmond, VA Gamma, Beta.
    1081 CPM, 216.2 Times Normal, Atlanta, GA. Gamma, Beta.
    1071 CPM, 214.2 Times Normal, Laredo, TX. Gamma, Beta.
    1056 CPM, 211.2 Times Normal, Hartford, CT Gamma, Beta.
    1030 CPM, 206 Times Normal, Wichita, KA. Gamma, Beta.
    1029 CPM, 205.8 Times Normal, Riverside, CA. Gamma, Beta.
    1028 CPM, 205.6 Times Normal, Phoenix, AZ Gamma, Beta.
    1010 CPM, 202 Times Normal, Pittsburgh, PA, Gamma, Beta.
    1009 CPM, 201.8 Times Normal, Oklahoma City, OK. Gamma, Beta.
    372 CPM, 74.4 Times Normal, Washington, DC. Gamma, Beta.
    Normal Radiation is 5 to 20 CPM. [6]

    • northshoredoc 2.1

      Can you provide a link from a reliable source ?

      • Lanthanide 2.1.1

        Googled and found this. This content has been posted in multiple places so I’m not sure the ‘origin’ of it.

        (San Francisco) Oct 17 2015 – An unacknowledged nuclear event swept through the Upper Midwest in the United States in September 2015. No terrorist organization, nuclear capable corporation, government agency or organized military has taken credit for the event.

        In a nutshell, here’s what happened: A powerful nuclear pulse was created somewhere in the upper Midwest and spread a radioactive wave front outward hundreds of miles across America’s Heartland. The pulse was recorded at the few active and published radiation stations with an unmistakable signature.


        • Colonial Viper

          This all seems very unlikely. Any ‘powerful radiation wavefront’ would have caused large scale occurrence of radiation sickness. Chinese and Russian satellites would also have picked it up.

          • Lanthanide

            Yeah, i think some universities would have been publishing about it (as they did in the aftermath of Fukushima), not some anonymous ‘radiation stations’.

            It would be picked up by countries other than the US as well, obviously Canada, but it would reach Europe / Asia after a few days, just as there was a detected increase in radiation on the west coast of the US a few days after Fukushima.

          • Treetop

            What about rusted containers or a battle ship leaking radiation previously dumped at sea?

        • lprent

          There have been always been radioactive spikes all over the world whenever we get volcanic eruptions, solar flares, nuclear tests, and the odd meltdown. The problem with virtually everything I ever read on these kinds of scare articles is that they don’t bother giving any sense of real scale, like what difference it is compared to living in a valley with a granite geology.

          Consequently I don’t take any notice of the idiots promulgating them any more.

          FFS: They can’t even use measurements that are meaningful.

    • Chooky 2.2

      @ Robert Atack …interesting!…but what does it mean?…and what are the stats for New Zealand?

    • lprent 2.3

      It is essentially bullshit. Especially when expressed as counts per minute (does whoever compiled it live in the 1950s with an antique Geiger counter?) rather than a more useful measure like micro seiverts.

      CPM basically measures alpha and more weakly the beta and pretty well ignores the more dangerous gamma radiation (which incidentally makes a mockery of his list – where is the link for that anyway).

      In other words it responds well to smoke alarms in most households with their wee dollop of radioactive test far better than it responds to serious leaks in nuclear power plants most of the way around the world. It also responds very well to solar flares.

      But the really ridiculous thing about that “quote” is that there is no such thing as a “Normal Radiation”. That is a complete and outright lie. Background radiation varies all over the place

      Geology alone tells you that. There are many places in the world (Deccan traps, Turkey, Siberia) where the background radiation level is in the order of 100x that of a sedimentary plain because they are sitting on large basalt or granite rocks with outgassing of Radon or other radioactive breakdowns. For instance the granite intrusion area in the Coromandel is way higher for radioactivity compared to living on the Canturbury plains.

      Consequently, humans like all other species on earth have a reasonably high resistance to varying levels of radiation.

      But Robert’s list is completely useless without knowing what the average and range of background radiation was in each of those cities. All cities are radioactive well above natural background levels.

      I’d class Robert’s comment and whatever unlinked source he copied it from as just being stupid scare bullshit written by fools who had no idea what they were writing about. It should be simply ignored as not adding anything to the debate.

      It’d be nice if someone wrote something that is a bit more useful and rational about what is worth watching for with radiation. In particular with a comparison to living in different areas with their natural background radiation. Like the polar regions for instance.

      • Poission 2.3.1

        Hes copied off a list on a pseudo science blog,which in turn has extrapolated data (and added several orders of magnitude) from a quasi monitor site.


        • northshoredoc

          Yep my bullshitometer was altered as soon as it was posted – bit like the anti vaccination drivel that’s posted here on occasion.

          • lprent

            Or the similar twin towers. Or the right wing drivel that you promulgate (while being a medical parasite). Or the junk about population air spraying.

            I really don’t care that much unless it interferes with the site, ie escapes from OpenMike / Daily Review and causes diversions in the other posts.

            • Northshoredoc

              Lprent – what ‘right wing drivel’ ? What is a ‘medical parasite ?’

              Or is that just your opinion which you don’t need to back up with evidence…the rules change around here so often it’s difficult to keep up.

              • Anne

                I think you might be getting back a bit of what you [unfairly] dish out to others sometimes.

              • weka

                Or is that just your opinion which you don’t need to back up with evidence…the rules change around here so often it’s difficult to keep up.

                Well that certainly explains a lot about what you do in debates.

                In general, you can express any opinion you like. However once you state something as fact, there is an onus to back it up if it seems farfetched or bullshit or maligns someone etc.

  3. Morrissey 3

    Al Jazeera “news” is a farrago of politically biased cant.
    Its “journalists” have clearly been told to crank up the displays of contempt for official enemies

    These impressions are from a selection of just a few minutes of viewing for a couple of items, but it’s typical of what is said on this official outlet for the Qatari dictatorship, on the hour, every hour…

    1.) Al Jazeera News, Wednesday 21 October 2015, 8:25 p.m. (NZ)

    The Chinese president is in Britain. Of course, when any Chinese or Iranian or Russian leader meets with a human rights champion such as David Cameron, or Binyamin Netanyahu, or Prince Harry, or Queen Elizabeth, the subject of human rights HAS to be mentioned by the state media. This time, after showing an anti-Chinese protest outside the official reception, the reporter notes archly that Xi Jinping is now “at the state banquet, where human rights is unlikely to be the topic of conversation.” (cue picture of Xi Jinping clinking glasses with Queen Elizabeth)

    A few minutes later, Rory Challands seems offended by the fact that President Assad is having talks with Pres. Putin in Moscow.

    2.) Al Jazeera news, 10 p.m., Wednesday 21 October 2015

    For the first item, there’s only one possible choice: the outrageous meeting of two Bond villains. Autocue reader Jane Dutton frowns and tries to look as grave as she can. Her harsh South African accent serves to enhance the minatory effect she is working so hard to achieve….

    JANE DUTTON: Syria’s president makes an UNANNOUNCED VISIT to Moscow to be with Vladimir Putin!

    Keeping up the grim, glowering expression, she crosses live to the even grimmer looking Moscow correspondent. He’s been practising his troubled, sour demeanour for the last hour and a half….

    JANE DUTTON: What are the PLANS now, Rory?

    RORY CHALLAND: [snorts contemptuously] Huh! That’s a very good question! They’ll be talking about the bombing of FRIENDLY groups, MODERATE groups, groups that have been trying to get rid of President al Assad and that the west has been supporting…..

    ….ad nauseam…

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      JANE DUTTON: Syria’s president makes an UNANNOUNCED VISIT to Moscow to be with Vladimir Putin!

      Of course it was unannounced; we wouldn’t want Assad’s plane to be accidentally shot down by a US F-16, would we?

      • Grindlebottom 3.1.1

        Nah, they wouldn’t dare. That’d see them totally screwed internationally and they know it. Notice that they never attack Assad’s forces directly themselves? They’ve talked about it but never done it.

        • Colonial Viper

          Good point…but having forced down the Ecuadorean president’s plane over the Snowden affair you never know…

          • Grindlebottom

            They can’t even afford to supply their “moderate” rebel friends with anti-aircraft missiles so someone else could maybe do it – in case the missiles wind up being used against their own aircraft the way things go over there.

        • millsy

          If the US wanted to do it, they would have done it..they would have known about trip well in advance — thanks to Mossad (who seem to know everything, apparently)

      • billmurray 3.1.2

        Assad is not a enemy of the West, he is a secular leader who was attacked by ISIL and other rebels of dubious back-grounds. The Americans and the West have backed the wrong side in Syria and the refugee crisis is the result. The Russians have picked up a mess, but do not underestimate their resolve in Syria or their understanding of Islam. Putin has and will continue to make America and Europe look stupid and impotent in the Middle East.

        • Treetop

          Assad is the enemy of every refugee/displaced person in Syria or who has fled Syria. Assad’s leadership is untenable in the long term.

          The way I see Syria is:
          1. Saudi Arabia want Assad gone.
          2. The Kurds seem to be able to defend their territory, they require more weapons to be more effective.
          3. The opposition fighters want Assad gone.
          4. Assad does not have an army to defeat Isil.
          5. Assad needs to make up his mind who the biggest enemy in Syria is and to defeat them with the help of Russia and the USA, then to unite all the different religions and nationalties.
          6. Putin could not do any worse than the USA, (Russia took on Afganistan in the 1990s and Putin has not interfered in the 2000 invasion by the USA in Iraq and Afganistan).
          7. Turkey will fall apart on the shared border unless there is stability in Syria.

          The suffering is clear to see on the faces of those who have fled Syria, Iraq and Afganistan..

          Stalin did a u – turn in WW2, Putin is no fool.

          For all I know the USA could already be working with Russia in Syria.

    • infused 3.2

      RT is the same, yet keeps getting posted.

      • Morrissey 3.2.1

        Yes, infused, it is a fair comment to observe that RT cleaves pretty closely to the Russian government’s line, just as the ABC parrots Canberra’s line and the BBC is a megaphone for the British political elite.

        But it’s not fair or accurate to say that RT is “the same” as Al Jazeera; it’s not a simple case of one being as bad as the other. Both of them have some excellent documentaries, and some excellent reporting, but both of them also have some extremely dodgy, almost comically bad programmes too.

        On RT, Jesse Ventura’s son fronts a simply absurd program which varies little from the paranoid tone of his father’s commentaries. Al Jazeera has some truly brilliant programmes, but they also give an inordinate amount of time to dolts like Mehdi Hassan and Kamahl Santamaria.

        Yes, RT’s commentary needs to be regarded just as skeptically as any other outlet’s, but I would challenge you to find anything on an RT news broadcast as unashamedly partisan and biased and dishonest as Rory Challand’s comments last night.

  4. North 4

    Oh that Andrew little would deal more definitively with the obtuse, dunderhead types like Suzie Ferguson on Morning Report just now.

    On the question of Jacinda Ardern and the Labour deputy leadership dear Suzie started off with the pejorative – in as many words – ‘Mr Little, you’ve just despatched Ardern as useless.’ “No no no…..” says Little.

    Not good enough for the obtuse Suzie. Two or three more times, different words, same question, same pejorative. I wish Little would deal with the unartful like Ferguson a little more in the nature of Winston – “Didn’t you hear what I just said Suzie ?”

    Frustrating ! Ferguson’s one of the worst at it and deserves a good smacking. Who TF does she think she is with this childish gnawing on the construct bone of her own making ?

    • Bearded Git 4.1

      Susie Ferguson 10 seconds ago on Labour’s polling-“it is 31% which hasn’t moved at all from the election.”

      err no Susie. Labour’s vote is up 24% on the election (25 to 31). She then went on to try and posit some sort of leadership challenge by Ardern. err no Susie, it’s not happening.

      She is biased. She is useless. Get rid of her Radio NZ.

      • Chooky 4.1.1

        +100 North and Bearded Git…Ferguson is pretty biased and hopeless…I really enjoyed it when Kim Hill was in her place for a short period recently

        It is a soft, nact government biased, smoochy self satisfied programme …short on sharp questions and professionalism

      • tc 4.1.2

        Not going anywhere with the nact stacked RNZ upper levels as designed.

    • savenz 4.2

      Disgusting, I have my beef’s with Labour’s confusion on policy in particular TPP, but the journo’s are openly discriminating and manufacturing rubbish to Labour and the opposition’s faces. It is actually bullying when it is at that level.

      Decent Journo’s are being sacked and dumb propaganda and outright lies are being used in these nauseating ‘interviews’ by journo nobodies with the journo just telling some manufactured line over and over during the interview. Not only does it mean no useful information comes out of the interview but it is hard for the interviewee to look good. In contract the nauseating fawning over the Natz makes me sick.

      I actually have stopped watch most TV, radio and so forth. Have to get my info off the internet and selected journo’s who still have some integrity of whom you can now count on one hand.

        • Grindlebottom

          I’m thinking it’s probably time for Labour’s MPs to all get some media training from Winston Peters. Winston really does probably have the best way to deal with these dense or biased kinds of reporters.

          They end up busting a blood vessel while he just cruises off laughing.

          • Ergo Robertina

            Yes I’m sure it gives a few sad folk a thrill.
            But after TWO DECADES Winston is still being asked the same question – which of the two parties will you put on the Treasury benches?
            If you don’t consider that a valid question I would suggest it may well be you who’s a tad obtuse and biased.
            It says a lot about Kiwi culture that one of the neoliberal protagonists (Winnie) of the 1990s is a hero for many, including those who actually follow politics, because he’s good with a put-down.

    • Olwyn 4.3

      @ North: I am not sure what sort of response Andrew Little should take to this sort of nonsense but I do know that I am utterly sick of it. To start with, why is the deputy leadership of the LP suddenly a source of excitement? And why, when there are about 34 Labour MP’s, must it be a choice between two of them? Your phrase, “gnawing on a construct bone” is an apt one. Soap opera writers rely on the suspension of disbelieve to make us care about their constructed cliff hangers. It wears thin rather quickly when soap opera writing is so frequently offered as a stand-in for news.

    • “Ferguson’s one of the worst at it and deserves a good smacking”

      maybe lay off the threatening female journos you don’t like with physical violence? it makes you look like a thug

      • North 4.4.1

        Got your crazy meter a bit overtuned there Fan Club…..try to pitch that as an exhortation to physical violence you might as well try to fly to the moon. Have you no familiarity with prosaic metaphor ? Seems not. Makes you look like an illiterate mug. Your burden.

        • The Fan Club

          So you express your disapproval of a woman’s professional work though the metaphor of giving them “a good smack”? Classy!

          I don’t think anyone expected you were personally going to deliver this smack. Online cowards never do. But oh well, keep fantasising about using physical violence to overcome your frustration at your political impotence!

          That always ends well.

          • North

            Obviously you’ll believe (and impose) whatever you want to believe (and impose) Fan Club. Ever heard of an interviewee “owning” an idotic interviewer, one debater “slapping down” another, so and so getting a “smacking” in a verbal exchange” ?

            In respective order that would be to rejoice in slavery, violence, and violence I suppose.

            Grow up !

        • Chooky

          +100 North…spankings , paddywhacks, brickbats…for Morning Report ( they have all got well padded bums …bigger than their heads…and their heads are too big for their boots )

          …a little bit of metaphorical ,colloquial light chastisement never hurt anyone

          The Fan Club is precious

      • Colonial Viper 4.4.2

        LOL mate were you a supporter of the anti-smacking legislation?


        A bit late to get all precious about smacking now, isn’t it?

        • The Fan Club

          Bro I was a strong supporter of the anti-smacking law because we have a huge problem with violence in New Zealand and bullshit excuses like this are part of why kids and women “get a good smack” and noone mans up and says it’s not ok.

          Do you guys ever wonder why this space is so toxic to women?

          • lprent

            Do you guys ever wonder why this space is so toxic to women?

            You ever wonder why you are such an idiot? And how could you possibly know that? I suspect that you are simply deliberately lying and pulling ‘facts’ out of your arse.

            FYI, we started getting estimates for male/female reader ratios back in March last year when Google analytics turned it on for “sessions” for the people where google knew their gender.

            Since April 2014 to September 2015 we have had measurements of 1,582,138 sessions which is 56.24% of our total sessions.70.03% male and 29.97% female. The latter number is a very high percentage for a mainstream political blog.

            After starting around 27% in April/May 2014, it peaked in September 2014 at 33% during election month. In April 2015 it was 31%. It has consistently been higher as a percentage this year compared to last year if you ignore months close to the elections. Last month it was 30%.

            This year it has bounced around between 28% and 32%, lower when we have less traffic, and higher when we have more traffic. It’d be nice to figure out a way to increase faster overall. However there has been a discernible slow increase over the 18 months.

            It pisses me off when I see lazy fuckwit critics like you outright lying about this site, and I’m liable to take offense.

            Next time I’d suggest that you express it as an opinion rather than asserting a fact.

          • DeadSmurf

            +1 The Fan Club. Well said.

            • Mrs Brillo

              +1 The Fan Club.

              And this place is indeed an uncomfortable place for women.
              Or you would see more of them here.

              I know plenty of women working as volunteers for political organisations, but they avoid Internet political discussion because of the aggressive males who frequent such places spoiling for a fight. And this is no exception.

          • Lanthanide

            Personally I’m tired of what seems to happen whenever someone makes a statement about someone else, who happens to be female, others automatically assume the author was being sexist.

            If they had said that Guyon needed a smacking, would you have been jumping up and down about sexism? Or would you have not said anything at all.

            • The Fan Club

              Who said anything about sexism bro? I said that if you want to hit female journos cause you don’t like there work maybe you should think about how you relate to women.

              Maybe if society wasn’t so sexist you wouldn’t hear so much about it? If you’re sick of hearing about sexism why don’t you step up and do something about it.

              • Lanthanide

                “I said that if you want to hit female journos cause you don’t like there work maybe you should think about how you relate to women.’

                Maybe they need to think about how they relate to journalists.

                Is my point.

              • North

                You’re dishonest Fan Club. There were no ‘ifs’ in anything you said to me. You accused of outright threat of violence. Then upped the ante with your “coward” shit. Which is wickedly indulgent of course. You don’t know shit about me or my relationships with women.

                Sadly common sense rules of interpretation often fall under the runaway truck of ‘immaculate zealotry’.

          • Chooky

            @ The Fan Club….The Standard aint toxic to women( some of the big girls are scary though)…and you deserve a good spanking for that porkie ( Nursies remedy for telling porkies)

            Nursie: If you weren’t quite so big, it would be time for Mr and Mrs Spank to pay a short sharp trip to Bottieland.


          • millsy

            Toxic to women?

            Give me a break.

            4chan is toxic to women. Reddit is toxic to women. So it Kiwiblog and Whaleoil.

  5. Whateva Next 5

    Crosby Textor in overdrive drumming up “stories” about Labour…..deflecting from Keys flaccid flag pole.
    Creating a Ardern v King for deputy is desperate, and we are doing pretty well if that’s the biggest “dirt” they can splash.

  6. esoteric pineapples 6

    Good progressive independent Canadian news site for anyone who wants to keep up with what is happening in that country politically – http://rabble.ca/

  7. esoteric pineapples 7

    Israeli Prime Minister ACTUALLY blames Muslims for the Holocaust


    Nice to see the German Chancellor rejects this and places the blame firmly with the Germans.

  8. Puckish Rogue 8


    Throw the book at her and Greg O’Connor must resign and if possible charges should be laid agianst him as well

    • dv 8.1

      TH police need to look check the mail order sales of the guns to see if they are all approiate.

      • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1

        She doesn’t get to break the law with impunity, she could have easily stopped the sale at any time even target, when using kids, stopped short the kids buying cigarettes because that would have broken the law

        Just because the ratings are tanking she decides to try to create some controversy and try to create a link to the shootings in the USA

        • weka

          So how come the seller didn’t know the police details were fake?

          • Puckish Rogue


            Gun City owner David Tipple sent the form to Whaleoil so you can open it in clear conscience 😉

            But basically under the Police Use Only section HDPA used a fake name but legit QID number

            • ianmac

              They invented the QID number which just happened to match an actual license holder.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Maybe (well probably) but I’m sure theres some law about falsely signing a document especially a police one

                • Lanthanide

                  Ok great, she broke the law.

                  Now, what are we going to do about how easy it is to buy firearms illegally?

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    Firstly she (and her producer) should be charged of course because being a journalist doesn’t mean shes above the law

                    Secondly the police, in conjunction with gun retailers need to let the minister of police a simple way ensuring this can be ended

                    Althouh if I was a crim and i wanted to buy a firearm the last thing I’d do is leave any sort of a paper trail but thats just me

                    • tracey

                      You feel this way about all Whaleoil’s actions too, right? Wilfully breaking the law for ratings/money?

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      You feel the same about the illegal hacking of his emails that was used in a certain book..?

                      But if Cameron Slater is found guilty in a court of law then the full weight of the law should be thrown at him

                    • tracey

                      You still struggling with the difference between public interest and personal interest PR?

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      You still struggling with the difference between public interest and personal interest PR?

                      If HDPA had stopped short of actually buying the gun then fair enough, like how on Target they’d get schoolkids to go into shops to buy cigarettes but wouldn’t actually any, she’d have a point

                      But she can’t go and complain how easy it is to buy a gun by lying on the documents and then say she shouldn’t be charged

                      If i went out and put incorrect information on my driving licence and started driving an HT truck would that make it ok because I’m showing the loophole?

                    • Tracey

                      my comment was in relation to the difference between slaters motivation and hagers which, imo, you wrongly put on a par.

            • weka

              That doesn’t answer my question PR. Why did the seller not know that the police name was fake?

              • Puckish Rogue

                The gun seller is not at fault here (as more evidence comes to light that may change) the buyer is

                • weka

                  You still haven’t answered my question.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    No I just did, I’ll repeat it for you the gun seller is not at fault.


                    Law expert says Heather Du Plessis-Allan would lose against Gun City millionaire

                    Gun shop owner likely to go ahead with a private prosecution

                    “Although technically [Gun City] might not have broken any laws or regulations, it has shown that [their] processes which are in place are shonky at best, or at least very easily evadable.”

                    (I find the use of the phrase millionarie interesting because assuming HDPA and her husband own a house then she’d be classed as a millionaire as well)

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      But what does his financial status have to do with anything, is it that hes a millionaire therefore he must be in the wrong?

                      I’d suggest that Mr and Mrs HDPA probably own a home or two in auckland which would make her a millionaire as well but I didn’t see anything like millionaire journalist HDPA

                    • weka

                      Irrespective of your opinion that the seller wasn’t at fault, that doesn’t answer the question “why did the seller not know that the police ID was fake?” (I’m not asking who was at fault).

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Well Weka I really don’t know why not, I mean i’m not trying to be obtuse but I’m not the owner and i don’t work in the gun industry

                    • Tracey

                      i agree his financial status is irrelevant. his multiple gun law violations would have been a better focus.

                    • weka

                      “Well Weka I really don’t know why not, I mean i’m not trying to be obtuse but I’m not the owner and i don’t work in the gun industry”

                      If you can’t answer the question then how do you know he’s not at fault?

        • Draco T Bastard

          She doesn’t get to break the law with impunity,

          Actually, in this case, she does as she used the act to highlight to the public that it was happening and that the government and the police needed to review their present processes and legislation.

          • Lanthanide

            Well no, she still broke the law, and does not have something like diplomatic immunity that would actually allow her to ‘break the law with impunity’ (and even diplomatic immunity is more theoretical, as we saw with the Malaysian diplomat who is now facing his crimes despite having diplomatic immunity).

            The police have discretion in who they charge for law breaking, and what specific charges they choose to lay.

            • Draco T Bastard

              She can be, and probably will be, charged. But once in court she has the defense of Public Interest which, IMO, will hold. What she found is most definitely in the public interest to know.

              The police probably don’t like getting egg on their face over this but such mistakes are how you learn.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Is it though or is it because the ratings are poor and they’re trying to desperately link this to american shootings because controversy creates cash (or in this case rating?

                Firstly the rates of deaths via frearms is thankfully low (could be lower of course)

                Secondly rates of crime involving guns is also low

                Thirdly if a crim wants a gun there are less trackable ways of buying a gun

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Is it though or is it because the ratings are poor and they’re trying to desperately link this to american shootings because controversy creates cash (or in this case rating?

                  Just because they’re trying to up ratings doesn’t mean that it’s not in the public interest. One does not negate the other.

                  Firstly the rates of deaths via frearms is thankfully low (could be lower of course)

                  Secondly rates of crime involving guns is also low

                  This has nothing to do with the discussion so why bring it up?

                  Thirdly if a crim wants a gun there are less trackable ways of buying a gun

                  Actually, I suspect that there isn’t a less trackable way than this. False name, false license, false police officer, false address, legitimate gun.

                  Remember, even legitimate guns aren’t registered any more.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    I brought it up because the program is trying to scare people into thinking theres a flood of illegal weapons out there and crims are running around armed to the hilt and they’re arn’t

                    I mean I’d have thought the people on the left would have been aghast about the blatent attempt by the media to scare people because when people are scared they want tougher laws in place or, because Greg O’Connor seems to be involved, arming the police

                    • Tracey

                      but it isnt really like “terrorism” as the shop owner has suggested.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      I brought it up because the program is trying to scare people into thinking theres a flood of illegal weapons out there and crims are running around armed to the hilt and they’re arn’t

                      Then you should probably have started another thread about that then rather than placing it in a thread about something else.

  9. savenz 9

    The TPP’s intellectual property provisions – a blow for global health and access to medicines


  10. weka 10

    OUR RESEARCH INDICATES ABOUT 28% OF VOTERS CONSIDERED VOTING GREEN AT THE LAST ELECTION. And that’s on top of the 10.7% of voters who did give the Greens their party vote.

    from a Green Party email from Jeanette Fitzsimons. They’re going to hire a campaign manager in Jan as part of the drive to increase the actual vote.

    Even allowing for the vagueness of what ‘considered’ means, those are impressive numbers. Which begs the question of why people don’t vote Green, esp people on the left. I think the reasons are varied, but it does seem like there is still this hesitancy and I don’t quite get what it’s about. I think the whole they’re amatuers who shouldn’t be in govt thing is well behind them, so what is it?

    btw, they’re asking for donations to help with the campaign. This is one easy way for well off lefties to support a left wing government. Donations can be made here,


    • Lanthanide 10.1

      “it does seem like there is still this hesitancy and I don’t quite get what it’s about”

      I don’t understand it either. My only assumption is people have bought into the right-wing fear-mongering, and that once the Greens actually get into power they will show that they really aren’t crazies, they are competent, and their vote share will rise from there.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.2

      Yep, got that and donated this morning.

  11. Rosemary McDonald 11

    Auntie Paula tells Community Housing sector …

    “…the Government’s long-term rental contracts were a “double A rated, Government guaranteed investment product” which most investors would “climb over broken glass” for.”


    Well, there you go.

    A cup of TPP anyone?

  12. tracey 12

    The pinup boy for the property hoax

    In 2013 this guy first made the news. With his $18,000 deposit for a home, a plan, living rent free at parents home, accountant job… all designed to show that if you really want a home you can get one. Or 3. Or 7.


    Today stuff have reactivated his pinup boy status.


    Interestingly in February 2013 he was 24 years old. Two and a half years later Stuff tells us, he is only 25. A small thing, perhaps. But an error or inaccuracy nonetheless.

    Anyway, it reads, to me, as an Advertorial. Seems little reason to repeat it, especially as it is Australian based. Slow news day? Low staff means news needs to be recycled or a piece of paid advertising but undisclosed?

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      We really need to jump on this habit of elevating bludging to heights of respectability that the MSM has. these bludgers are why we have poverty, inequality and a poor innovation culture.

    • Sabine 12.2

      How much does he owe the banks? That is what I would like to know.

      Unless and until all the properties are paid in full he owns squat diddly do other then an arsefull of debt.
      What would happen to posterboy if the market tanks, he looses his job, one of his buildings is a leaky or otherwise shoddy build and he suddenly can’t service the bills?

      So he might own the mortgages for 8 buildings, but the banks owns him, all of him until he pays them their dues.

      • Tracey 12.2.1

        he has been used twice now. 2013 and 2015. someones want people to chase the mytb. banks and/or real estate agents

  13. Penny Bright 13

    For whom has this forced Auckland amalgamation been ‘$UPER’ ?

    Yep – New Zealand ‘perceived’ to be the SECOND ‘least corrupt country in the world’ ….


    ‘Large scale’ Auckland mortgage fraud

    Thursday, 22 October 2015
    The New Zealand Herald

    The Serious Fraud Office says Auckland’s property market and the scale of commercial developments is a ‘key environmental risk’.

    The Serious Fraud Office is investigating large-scale mortgage fraud in the Auckland property market involving developers, company directors, property valuers and lawyers.

    “Auckland’s property market and the scale of impending commercial developments represent a key environmental risk,” the SFO said in its 2015 annual report released this week.

    “We have invested significant resources into investigating a large-scale mortgage fraud involving highly organised teams of property developers, shell company directors, property valuers and lawyers.”

    The SFO, which aims to reduce the impact of serious financial crime on both the economy and the public, said the investigation is ongoing and declined further comment.


    Penny Bright

  14. Blue Boy 14


    You trembled like you’d seen a ghost
    And I gave in
    I lacked the things you need the most,
    You said where have you been?

    You wasted all that sweetness to run and hide
    I wonder why
    I remind you of the days you poured your heart into
    But you never tried

    I’ve fallen from grace
    Took a blow to my face
    I’ve loved and I’ve lost
    I’ve loved and I’ve lost

    Explosions…on the day you wake up
    Needing somebody and you’ve learned
    It’s okay to be afraid
    But it will never be the same
    It will never be the same

    You left my soul bleeding in the dark
    So you could be king
    The rules you set are still untold to me
    And I’ve lost my faith in everything

    The nights you could cope,
    Your intentions were gold
    But the mountains will shake
    I need to know I can still make

    Explosions…on the day you wake up
    Needing somebody and you’ve learned
    It’s okay to be afraid
    But it will never be the same

    And as the floods move in
    And your body starts to sink
    I was the last thing on your mind
    I know you better than you think
    ‘Cause it’s simple darling, I gave you warning
    Now everything you own is falling from the sky in pieces
    So watch them fall with you, in slow motion
    I pray that you’ll find peace of mind
    And I’ll find you another time
    I’ll love you, another time

    Explosions…on the day you wake up
    Needing somebody and you’ve learned
    It’s okay to be afraid
    But it will never be the same

    • Grindlebottom 14.1


    • Ad 14.2

      BlueBoy a challenge for you.

      Step up and write your own stuff.
      You don’t need other people.

      Nor necessarily be rational – anyone here can dial a dialectic materialist.

      Become poetry.
      Lyric is lithe; it entails efficiency of meaning and economy of movement.

      Boil it down to a concentrate.

      • Blue Boy 14.2.1

        Ad, since your the expect……………….

        Please, write a poem (yourself), show us how it is done?

        Teach me.

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Fatuous boring and Blue,
          Copy-paste talentless too,
          Tory epitome,
          Parrot epiphany,
          A stranger to anything true.

          • Blue Boy

            Your rhyming is childish.

            Poetry comes from the heart, true poetry is written from the heart, with inspiration, and it always comes from instincts, intuition, feeling and beauty, whether that beauty is born from sadness or happiness, it doesn’t matter but it always comes from the heart.

            You can’t just write crap and make it rhyme, you are ‘budget’.

            Maybe Ad should have a go- he’s the expect.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              Limerick offends
              A shameless plagiarist
              Hoist up own petard.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              Heartfelt ridicule,
              Meets querulous Tory boy,
              Critical failure.

              • Blue Boy

                Desperate and totally budget.

                I will give you a topic-

                “Praying Mantis whacking his head against a brick wall.”

                How’s that for ya?

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Much as I’d like,
                  To meet the Tory goad,
                  He offers nothing for his part,
                  No prime examples of this art,
                  Nor wit, nor wisdom,
                  I’ll depart,
                  From his neglected road.

          • b waghorn

            Now oab I try not to grip,
            But it looks like that for today blue boy has stayed away from the pipe.
            I say the proggresives should allow him the chance
            To free his mind to dance.

            • Grindlebottom

              *sp … gripe. 🙂

              • Grindlebottom

                The best thing to do
                With the Boy who is Blue
                May be to ignore
                Or to boot out the door
                But the job is not mine
                So I won’t waste more time
                Going on about that
                I’ll just smile at the prat

  15. Rosemary McDonald 15

  16. tracey 16

    Oh look, C&R Auckland (that conduit of national or ACT depending on what time of year it is) is breaking the intent if not the letter of the law in the Auckland Energy Trust elections.

    Whodda thunkit


  17. joe90 17

    CIA director Brennan’s emails.

    (the failure to redact personal info is bad form)


  18. Tautoko Mangō Mata 18

    TPP and Sovereignty: two different views:

    1. Wall St Journal “TPP Is Surprising Vote of Confidence in Globalization”
    “Despite limits on sovereignty, political support for trade pact is strong—except in the U.S.”
    “Every country will bear some political price. Thousands have taken to the streets in New Zealand to protest potentially higher drug prices and the threat of lawsuits by multinational companies claiming discrimination. Australians have similar concerns. Japanese farmers complain of betrayal. Yet in all three, as in Canada, opposition parties back the agreement, though this is contingent on the still-unreleased text rather than the principles agreed to in Atlanta on Oct. 5.”

    “This is why TPP’s significance lies not in its economic impact—modest for most signatories—but how it restricts its members’ domestic sovereignty.”

    Meanwhile in nzherald we have Catherine Beard writing : “Dispute provisions in TPP to protect New Zealand’s sovereignty” without having read the fine print. If the chance of ISDS threat was so low, Catherine, then why was it necessary to carve out Tobacco from using it? Getting a RW think tank to “research” ISDS is a joke.

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