…throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.
“In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.”
I don’t think he’s sufficiently mentally sophisticated for Dunning-Kruger to even be relevant. He’s pure impulsive reaction to the stimulus of the moment – someone questions his smarts, he has to react bashing back with how smart he is. For Dunning-Kruger to be relevant, there would have to be some actual deliberation about the topic at hand and that seems to be entirely absent.
i wish i could get some dunning kruger, it’s a real draw back knowing ones limitations , hell with a bit of dunning kruger i could probably rise to middle management .
Yesterday James wrote a stupid and insulting post where he insulted posters here …. as well as Gerald Hope, the bereaved father of Olivia Hope …. and a lot of other New Zealanders
In this thread I give a hat-tip to Psycho Milt for posting up … ““In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.” …. This was the research I hazily recalled.
I could not be bothered doing a internet search for a troll such as James …. even with his needling and projection of his own dishonesty or stupidity onto me.
James ….. ” I remember the results of a study (also without a citation) that showed the more stupid a person they go insult the original comment and change the topic – without proving a shred of anything to disprove the original comment made.
speaking of “wank wank” “…..
I can not help but wonder whether there is a ‘troll effect ‘ wherein trolls believe other posters are as dishonest and malevolent as themselves.
Like the Herald, James brought back unhappy memories for the families.
Them – for profit, which is despicable.
I have no idea why James brought the topic up, but he stooped to a new low that day.
Well why didn’t you simply write something along the lines of … ‘ I find this interesting but it probably won’t sway the doubters’ …. or something like that.
It was your ‘Dunning–Kruger’ “no doubt” and “nutters” statements of fact that crossed the line and made it into a trolls post.
Bloody poor form ….. especially towards Gerald Hope ….. who would know more about the case than rude punters on the internet.
And while Ed thought that you, james, had stooped to a new low ….. I think you did that when you were decrying ‘leftie’ posters for pointing out the higher rates and increase of suicide that cruel and punitive national/ rightwing / tory policies cause…..
You really are quite happy in not giving a fuck about a lot of things …
Reason
What I find the most repulsive about James is the fact he comes on this site and brags about his rich, privileged life.
Were he to read some of the most poignant contributions from some posters, he would be aware that quite a few of our posters have real challenges they face in life.
But no.
There is not a shred of empathy.
6 days ago I said I would never press reply to James again.
This is now the last time I refer to a troll’s comments.
These are paid disrupters who will continue to land on these shores.
Danegeld only encouraged the Vikings.
I have sympathies those with real issues. No time for people who are just bitter and envious posters who hate people who they perceive to be better off.
As for the paid meme that you have pushed so so many times and always failed to backup – I’ll add it to the list of Ed’s lies.
Should your warning not say “warning – author is not part of our wee echo chamber and may think differently therefore please heed this trigger warning”
James. this is funny!! That writer is always angry about something or other in her articles, which are generally shallow. Often she pontificates.
She fails to realise the “rage” is a symptom of the feelings being expressed by the general population towards opinionated uncaring comments by often well to do people
How dare we not accept their opinions as facts!! How pushy and stupid of us!! We should know their opinions are superior, therefore true. Yeah right!!
Rage builds over time. It is caused by unrelenting attacks. Attacks meant to deminish.
Memes repeated over and over. She says her friend made a mistake about the “Lipstick on a pig” comment …. No!! She and 98% of the populace felt outraged at that!!
Rage can lead to revolutions!! Luckily ours led to a Coalition government instead.
Her examples are selectively picked, and show little understanding of underlying context. As usual.
“As for your “rage” there are pockets – but the majority of people are quite normal and happy.”
Interesting definition of normal there – rageless – out of pocket – unhappy.
It is normal to have resistance when your values are constantly being eroded by processes beyond your control. Sometimes that manifests as outrage.
Having once been a resident of Wellington’s Eastern suburbs; and familiar with the antics of some members who claim membership of the 4th Estate (even Bill Ralston does that sometimes); and someone who had a close relative confiding in me the relationship of a husband as a ‘daddy figure’ – I could make a prediction.
Pretty sure HdPA will outlive me though, so I won’t be around to see the result.
In the meantime, the best that can be done is to donate to Women’s Refuge because there goes a person that’ll be in need sometime in the future
Actually they are generally not paid that much at all. Pointing out the highest paid is a poor example. But generally reporters are non on huge salaries
It’s ok to be outraged, Heather du Plessis-Allen.
Even if your own life is comfortable, others are not.
Your articles could be about writing truth to power.
Something to be outraged about #1
‘‘New Zealand has the worst rate of family and intimate-partner violence in the world. Eighty per cent of incidents go unreported — so what we know of family violence in our community is barely the tip of the iceberg.’
I said what I said deliberty, it’s the reality of debating with people standing too close to the elephant. James and others do it all the time.
That said, if your going to be trotting out alt-right memes, I’m going to call you a loser. Simple, really. It’s not abuse, it’s just a statement of position.
It’s ok to be outraged, Heather du Plessis-Allen.
Even if your own life is comfortable, others are not.
Some people don’t have it good.
Your articles could be about writing truth to power.
Like Alison Mau.
Something to be outraged about #2
‘Alison Mau: Don’t waste your breath excusing the Rhythm and Vines groper.
: It’s heartbreaking to think that young women taking part in one of summer’s great pleasures – hanging out with mates at a festival – cannot do so safely, whatever they choose to do with their boobs. It’s heartbreaking to see the feeble-minded, rape-apologist abuse that 20-year-old Madeline Anello-Kitzmiller has faced since she was assaulted at Rhythm and Vines a week ago.
Actually, scrub that. It’s not heartbreaking. Too late for that. Our hearts have been breaking over this shiz for generations. Thanks to the revelations of 2017; the Weinstein monster and Louis CK’s uninvited masturbation and all the many, many others, we’re all bloody furious.
It’s enraging, not heartbreaking. You can see, hear and feel this among women young and old on social media and in interviews on mainstream platforms. It’s in the words of the organisers of Times Up, the campaign formed by Hollywood women that promises to help women from lower paying industries get justice in sexual harassment cases‘
I have already warned OUR Mighty All Blacks about what I see that is going on in OUR World media I think the way to combat this is to get everyone asoseated with the AB to sign a confilct of intrset contract .Kia kaha
I do too.
…. and have you noticed? With apologies to an Edmonds cook book – the harder they (our sporting oikons) rise, the harder they fall.
Awe ,,,, shame eh?
I better turn on Skoi New Australia to see who the latest is
That applies to you James. Self-knowledge – lacking – tragic!
Psychological projection I think. Just lie down on this couch and tell us about yourself and your concerns. No on second thoughts don’t!
The Babylonian Talmud (500 AD) notes the human tendency toward projection and warns against it: “Do not taunt your neighbour with the blemish you yourself have.”[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Caught? Nah, mate, Richie showed them how not to get caught . Doesn’t mean they’re clean though, does it and the word is, they’re filthy with it! You reckon there’s no substance to the claim 🙂
Sit down and read Alison Mau carefully James. And then read HDA. There’s no comparison. They both were published today. One is written by a very intelligent woman of considerable substance. The other is shallow and adds very little of consequence to the harassment debate.
You set out at ‘3’ to enrage the already enraged on this site. You succeeded, but this time you got it wrong. I wonder if you have the guts to ‘apologise’ as the gentleman in Mau’s article did?
We need more outraged not less.
”The anger window is open.”
From the article.
‘They came together in anger, says co-chair of the Nike Foundation Maria Eitel, not because they wanted to “whine, or complain, or tell a story or bemoan. They came together because they intended to act. There was almost a ferociousness to it.”
As far back as early November – and doesn’t THAT seem like eons ago – Rebecca Traister wrote in New York Magazine that “the anger window is open”.
“This is ’70s-style, organic, mass, radical rage, exploding in unpredictable directions,” she wrote.’
You and HDP confuse enkratês with virtue – a cheap trick. There is a place for anger, especially in a country as ravaged by corruption and neoliberal misgovernance as NZ.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old Soper should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
It’s ok to be outraged, Heather du Plessis-Allen.
Even if your own life is comfortable, others are not.
Some animals don’t have it good.
Your articles could be about writing truth to power.
Like Holly Button and Matt Walker.
Something to be outraged about #3
Animal cruelty at rodeos
‘A call to action from the Animal Justice League New Zealand resulted in approximately 60 people taking part in a demonstration outside Canterbury Rodeo today.
“The turnout was greater than anticipated, which shows just how quickly people are learning about rodeo cruelty and agree that the government should implement a full ban on rodeos in NZ,” said a member of the group.
“People from town and country united, to send a clear message to organisers and attendees that New Zealanders are sick of animal abuse being touted as entertainment,” Animal Justice League NZ Spokesperson Holly Button.’
Mr Walker said the president of the Canterbury Rodeo Club, Jono Reed, then came over and in front of about eight security staff told him they did not want any filming that would cast rodeo in a negative light.
“Is that really acceptable? [I told him] it seems like you’re trying to censor out unbiased and independent filming from the event,” he said.‘
It’s ok to be outraged, Heather du Plessis-Allen.
Even if your own life is comfortable, others are not.
Our environment doesn’t have it good.
Your articles could be about writing truth to power.
Like Peter Anderson
Something to be outraged about #4
The state of our waterways
‘In 2009, 70 percent of bathing sites were suitable for public recreation. Today, that figure has dropped to 58 percent.
Peter Anderson of Forest and Bird said land intensification is a significant cause of the water quality crisis.
“The level of intensification has got in front of the ability to manage the environmental impacts from that intensification. Canterbury is at the forefront of it,” he said.
Mid-Canterbury crop and dairy farmer Ian Mackenzie said the government’s plan to end irrigation loans is the wrong answer. He said that as well as boosting grass growth, irrigation can also dilute polluting nitrates in the urine from livestock through techniques such as managed aquifer recharging.
However, Mr Anderson said that doesn’t address the underlying problem which is that we have too many cows.
“There’s no treatment of the effluent of cows. We need to think differently if we’re going to try reduce the impact of land intensification.”
How about we stop responding to a smug troll who is (ironically) simply looking to provoke outrage?
This is a really interesting and though-provoking article about the end of life/assisted dying bill, using the experiences and opinions of a guy with Motor Neuron Disease who says that 10 years ago he would have opted for death but now he treasures every moment of life. He feels the bill discriminates against the disabled, implying their lives are worth less than the able-bodied. Worth thinking about.
How about we think for a minute before posting so all points that want to be made, especially the same one, can be contained in one outing instead of being strewn down the page like rant man dribble.
I fail to see why calling people’s attention to those four issues requires you to cut ‘n’ paste huge screeds of other peoples’ work while adding little of your own.
Yeah, it’s much more complex than many arguing for (or against) it acknowledge. I do think it’s a discussion worth having, but I also think that the bill as it stands is rather loose, and I have to say the article I linked to above gives a great example illustrating one of the problems embedded within it. Who would have argued that this guy wasn’t “of sound mind” or aware of the outcome of his decision 10 years ago (when he did actually try to take his own life)? And yet he’s glad of the years he’s had since then and now finds joy in his life as it is, wanting it to continue for as long as it can.
On the one hand I think people ought to be able to choose, and on the other I think it’s inappropriate to formalise it so long as massive health inequality persists.
In the past year, we have had many of the same conversations with the same sources Wolff used. We won’t betray them, or put on the record what was off. But, we can say that the following lines from the book ring unambiguously true:
How Trump processes (and resists) information:
“It was during Trump’s early intelligence briefings … that alarm signals first went off among his new campaign staff: he seemed to lack the ability to take in third-party information.”
“Or maybe he lacked the interest; whichever, he seemed almost phobic about having formal demands on his attention.”
“Trump didn’t read. He didn’t really even skim. … [H]e could read headlines and articles about himself, or at least headlines on articles about himself, and the gossip squibs on the New York Post‘s Page Six.”
“Some … concluded that he didn’t read because he just didn’t have to, and that in fact this was one of his key attributes as a populist. He was postliterate — total television.”
“[H]e trusted his own expertise — no matter how paltry or irrelevant — more than anyone else’s. What’s more, he had an extremely short attention span, even when he thought you were worthy of attention.”
Suddenly, though, in the wake of this book, we get a thread that is clearly neither him nor someone tweeting presidentially. This is someone pretending to be him, trying to sound like Trump and not doing a very good job.
…
Some giveaways are the word “playbook” (arguably way above Trump’s level of sophistication) and the grasp of history that the reference to Reagan requires; also the use of punctuation throughout the thread;
…
also the phrase “at that” used correctly at the end of the last stanza, as it were — a rhetorical flourish that, alas, is again way above his own actual facility with language.
Wasn’t there a thing during the election where someone noticed that the deranged tweets came from an android and the more sane tweets came from an iphone?
President Trump will keep successfully delivering for his base and for the Republican donors until late 2020 at least.
Wolfe’s effect is simply to confirm the new standard that a President needs to achieve to remain in power.
So far he has delivered precisely:
– Huge tax cuts for businesses and for individuals
– Roll back soft marijuana laws
– Roll back transgender rights in the military
– Drill for oil into the arctic and any part of the seabed you like
– Full repudiation of the mainstream media
– Massive funding support for the military
– Strangulation of Obamacare
– Locked up the Supreme Court for many years
– Halved refugee quota and massive immigration crackdown from terrorist-harbouring states
– Repudiation of intelligence and justice structures within Washington – which is his version of “draining he swamp”.
– Put the shits up North Korea’s leadership so much that fresh dialogue has broken out between North and South Korea for the first time in many years.
– Shifted the balance of power in the Middle East with a few largely symbolic moves
He said what he was going to do beforehand, and he is doing it.
Now, all he has to do in the next three years is make a start on his great barrier wall, and he is a nomination lock for the Republican ticket.
I don’t like him, but if I were a Republican I would be calling him The Milkman.
Odd line in a movie: was watching a recording of the 2007 movie “The Brave One” – strange movie – not very good and still haven’t finished watching it.
But it has this odd line in the movie – could now be seen as incitement to assassination? Foster plays a vigilante killer in New York city, killing “bad” people. here she’s in a life while people are talking about the unknown killer.
Some of us on thestandard site are wondering why all of a sudden there is no more articles reporting the Climatic changed weather events that has just been hammering OUR beautiful Country .
I say that NZMEDIA is being influenced by the long tentacles of that country that just pulled out of the Paris climate change pact. Not just NZMEDIA the WORLDS Media is being influenced by this administration which is run by billionaires they let there $$$$$$$$$ influence there choices and not logic and this is why they are running a campaign to block as many articles as they can that even mentions climate change .
There is usually a couple of articles on the Guardian about events like this unusual climatic changed weather that has hit New Zealand and at least one on these sites Euro news Niki Asian news . I have scour our Worlds media for articles about climate change for years under the Obama administration there was heaps of data on climate change not now.
Here is a link showing how our New Zealand Media has slid down OUR Worlds ranking on freedom of speech. and ICE Lands fines for business that do not pay there lady s the same as men mhttps://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjymJfUg8TYAhULx7wKHYiqD28QFgg-MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.massey.ac.nz%2Fmassey%2Fabout-massey%2Fnews%2Farticle.cfm%3Fmnarticle_uuid%3DF1B6840E-9487-95EF-D57E-3DD68DC4A4AB&usg=AOvVaw0FBRyqW7bHGqQqFvhMgbIden.
Many thanks to those intelligent STARS for the Tautoko of OUR LORDYS choice of not going to Israel .
PS Lordy don;t worry to much about the bad publicity that you are getting from FOX NEWS as all they are doing in reality is adding to your Mana . Ka kite ano
eco maori, there’s a FAQ (frequently asked questions) page here on The Standard that can help you insert links without having to have those big long site addresses showing. It’s a bit hard to get used to at first, but I taught myself by having two version of TS open at once, with the FAQ page sitting there for me to look at when needed. Here’s a link to the page. Good luck if you decide to use it.
eco maori
If you get stuck just say and we will advise. Was confused by it myself – as seeing to be difficult to control the links and just have a term highlighted instead. Then, got it, easy peasy.
3. James, please realise, we do not share your blithe view of the world, and mostly we do not rate Heather or her husband’s views very highly.
So you have had your excitement for the day by quoting her, and getting responses. We know you are here James. Glad to confirm it. (Oh, and we personally are not rich, but neither are we poor, so there is no agenda as you put it.)
Had Heather written a thoughtful piece about road rage, or as Ed suggested family violence, then we could discuss the underlying reasons in both cases.
However, as usual Heather was trite superficial and selective in writing about rage.
Her friend may not be feeling so friendly right now, having her opinions and feelings so used.
The other day you accused someone here of being part of an “echo chamber” yet you quote Heather as a support for your views. Oh, the irony!!
I think if there is anything to be learned from this episode it is that its of paramount importance for everybody to *stop* replying to James at the top of the thread. Best to keep that top of mind I would say.
Reports that Jim Anderton has died. If so, we’ve lost one of the good ones.
Edit:
“Today I am a little lost for words. Jim was a huge influence on my life and someone who I will miss a great deal. There will be lot of words said about his political achievements but today I am thinking of a kind, compassionate and giving man. A man I am proud to have known and call a friend.”
From my generation, I loved the work that you did forming the Ministry of Economic Development, rolling out a new framework of public sector coherence with the Growth and Innovation Framework, and rolling out regional economic development that really gave hope and delivery to dozens of communities right across New Zealand. And did it, unusually for the left, with sound business experience behind you.
Others will remember the cataclysmic fights on the floor of Labour Party conferences back in the day – a bit early for me.
Still others will remember the work for the people of Wigram electorate and of Christchurch more generally.
Awesome to see a life well lived in service to others.
‘From now on, The Daily Blog will be naming all storms hitting NZ by the names of MPs who are doing sweet bugger all and by the NZ Corporations exacerbating climate change.’
I’m on the verge of giving up on The Standard because many here continue to feed the troll. You’re being gamed and yet you continue to respond to James.
He is not genuine and his purpose is simply to inflame, obscure, abuse and divert yet you continue to indulge him.
Why? He’s not very bright but seems smarter than many here who continue to be willing to let him undermine discussion.
Please, if you care about rigorous, open debate, ignore him. Otherwise he and others like him, win.
I heartily agree – I’m fed up with conversations being derailed because some people don’t seem to be able to resist taking the bait – it’s potentially ruining a valuable and informative site
That is why they come on to these sites “PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS”, BM was having a Field Day yesterday I think it was ?
They are actually paid by the Right Wingers/Neoliberals to derail discussions on sites like these and influence peoples thinking, WAKE UP DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS, just ignore their comments.
The reason I asked the question is very simple.
I happen to know that golf course. It is a Public course, just like Chamberlain Park in Auckland. It can be played by anyone at all and it is cheap.
As of the date of that photo the Green fees for 18 holes would have been $18.00 US. That is equivalent to $25.00 NZ.
To play 18 holes at Chamberlain park today would cost you $28.00. In other words it is cheaper than the best known Public course in Auckland. Now do you really think that they are clearly rich, which was your assumption, just because they were playing golf?
Do you somehow think that only rich people play golf? That seems an awfully bold assumption doesn’t it?
I repeat. How do you know, or even think, that they are “three rich white men”.
Golf: green fees, clubs, carts, snappy gloves, maybe even spikey shoes
Football: Ball. Open space. Maybe spikey shoes, if your open space is grass.
And appealing to your experience as an internationally-travelling golfer sort of supports the assumption that golfers, as a general rule, sure aren’t poor.
And I thought you were a truly sensible intelligent gentleman.
Still, anyone who loves a fine cigar cannot be all bad.
Actually I have never played the course. I have a close friend, now living in New Zealand, who lived there and played the course regularly. He had always told me, at great length, about how good a course it was and how cheap it was to play there.
I should possibly have put the word “of” between “know” and “that ” in the second sentence. It would then have read “know of that golf course”
He was the one who rang me and told me that a picture of the place was in the Listener.
I do play golf though. You do need clubs but they last for 20 years. You don’t really need a glove but if you do you can get one for $10 or so. You don’t need a cart. A hand pulled trolley will do and if you only want a half set or so you can carry the bag. You do need shoes but they don’t have to be spiked. In fact most clubs ban spiked shoes these days.
Golf is actually quite a cheap sport in New Zealand and in many other parts of the world. I met a person in Scotland a few years ago who lived in St Andrews. He, a person over 65, could play unlimited rounds on all the St Andrews courses for 150 pounds a year! That included about 5 courses, including the holy-of-holies, “The Old Course”. I could have wept.
Don’t even consider playing in Japan of course.
No. Don’t try and defend Ed. He made a bull-shit comment based on an obsession about white male people in the US and a total lack of knowledge about his subject.
I’m sure that, when he reads how silly his interpretation of the photo was, that he will come back and tell us that he regrets those foolish assumptions and there was nothing to justify his claim.
How is my comment about the golf bad?
I have not replied to James for 6 days despite continuous provocation.
Are there other solutions to ridding this site of such sniping comments?
Is ignoring the only solution?
If you take an average day, you’ll see nearly 50% of Open Mike taken up by smarmy and unpleasant comments made by these people.
If they are paid, they will come whatever, won’t they?
How does the Daily Blog deal with them as they rarely appear there.
Hi Ed You kept at it and spurred me on to take a healthy break but I’m back in the chocs, but in a controlled way.
I think that the mods could decide that we take a democratic decision on who is a troll, and give them bans when they are pushing their luck. Or limit them somehow to three a day. Others get bans, CV vanished, Pete George likewise. It just needs a change in the rules. There can be so much criticism of what regular interested commenters say, and yet the trolls dance in and out interfering with the flow of discussion and sometimes destroying it.
Let’s do it TS. You could announce that you think someone is a troll and if someone can find anything worthwhile to set against that then they get another chance perhaps (depends who it is – I think we know the habits of those who regularly come here).
I have been irritated for ages and it is good to see others becoming vocal. There are those who are so combative or didactic that they cannot stop themselves replying and on and on it goes – it’s time consuming when the blog is working as it should and there is lots of discussion and different views, and that is what makes it worthwhile and I think valuable to NZ as a whole, which has had a drought of political discussion for most people, for many decades. But I’m not going to put the time in if we are just getting people flitting about with froth and spittle and sly digs. And they watch amused as they manipulate the moderators to tell us regulars off. Bah.
So don’t let us lose the valuable thing for want of some firm rules. It’s a problem I have noticed in groups that are people’s initiatives – they want to be open and welcoming and some will have pet interests and people they want to be kind to or something. They won’t do their gardening – judicious pruning to keep the thing healthy.
‘Let’s do it TS. You could announce that you think someone is a troll and if someone can find anything worthwhile to set against that then they get another chance perhaps (depends who it is – I think we know the habits of those who regularly come here).’
The muppet sandflys were swarming today I have a warning for the public these particular sandflys are transmitters and carriers of a very nasty virus this virus is not deadly but you are stuffed when you get it.
It is called idiotitouselfrighteousbigotitesgullibleites that s the scientific terminology for this virus.
The symptoms are started when one is flashed with a shiny object one suffer from gullibility the other symptoms only surface after six months with out treatment they turns you into a Idiot self righteous bigots so be warned stay clear of these sandflys and if you cannot keep them away use plenty of insect repellent and use a mosquito net. ana to kai . The sandflys caused a incident on the road today it looked like no one was hurt just a mess it was just before Pyes Pa school I never harm anyone I respect everything so don t put the blame on me ka pai
One of the post I put out yesterday checked the move the sandflys and the trolls were trying to pull .I wonder what bulshit spinning lines they are going to come up with next.??????? . Kia Kaha
There is nothing more mind destroying that ignoring people. Freezing them out by not acknowledging they even exist. Just ignore the trolls, they are just pesky irritants. Just carry on the dialogue and leave them to their musings – in the end they will get fed up with communicating with themselves and nobody else. It will bore them and they will wander away and piss somebody else off elsewhere. This site doesn’t need them.
I was told once years ago, if somebody is irritating you or causing you psychological harm then just walk away from them, give them away, shrug them off. There is no cure for what they offer so give them up. It works.
Another record – not in a good way.
I was listening to Dr Kevin Anderson the other day.
It’s looking more and more like we’re heading for catastrophic climate change.
‘It was 47.1 degrees Celsius in one part of Sydney, Australia on Sunday afternoon.
Penrith sweltered under what was the highest temperature ever recorded in the Greater Sydney region, on a day of baking heat that saw international tennis cancelled and residents flock to the beach in droves.
The observation station, to the west of Sydney towards the Blue Mountains, reached 47.1 degrees just before 2pm.’
I learnt several things from this interesting article:
1. The article claims New Zealand is the most deforested country in the world. Hope that is wrong – or that’s another depressing statistic about our environment.
2. Our use of toxic weed killers is getting into our waterways.
3. European and British tourists see themselves as ‘greener’ than us.
4. We produce little organic food.
5. Europe and the UK have stricter laws about the use of glyphosate thanks.
Some thoughts and questions ……
I wonder if that affects our cancer rates.
The charities who raise money for cancer don’t/won’t broach any such subject as they are dependent on corporate money.
Is New Zealand the most deregulated state in the OECD apart from the failed Trumpian reality states of Umrica?
Blue-leaved wattle, boneseed, cathedral bells, Chilean rhubarb. climbing spindleberry, pinus contorta, wilding pines, several varieties of barberry, evergreen buckthorn, heather, old mans beard, Asiatic and giant knotweed, California bulrush, purple loosestrife, African feather grass, Chinese pennisetum, nassella tussock, and woolly nightshade are just a few of the more 300 invasive and production pest plant species in the Whanganui – Rangitikei region.
Some species have run rampant for more than a century because of a lack of viable control methods and other, later, arrivals have taken hold in a way nobody could have imagined.
Do you really think the people trying to eradicate these pests are all gung-ho about how they go about their task. They’re not. They’re well qualified realists facing facts; if these species aren’t eradicated all we’ll be left with is vast swathes of dead, strangled native flora, jiggered, grow-nothing pastures/arable land and waterways choked to death by aquatic pests.
oh bullshit
Foreign weeds only get a foothold on disturbed land and the margins of bush ,as does muehlenbeckia for that matter.The idea that mature bush can be overrun by foreign plants is ridiculous.
The article ED was referring to pointed out the use of Glyphosate to clear hillsides for pasture.That kind of wholesale poisoning when mechanical means are available is ecological madness
And waterways are successfully cleared in many parts of NZ by the use of white carp, who don’t breed in NZ waters, are totally vegetarian so don’t compete with native species to any degree, and dont muddy the bottom of lakes.
Glyphosate is like the Final Solution, and its overuse leads to plant resistance, just like antibiotic overuse has led to superbugs.
We do need to get smarter, and some things we just have to live with .For instance, regarding wilding pines as carbon sequesters, which may have greater value than sheep
Thanks for all that information Francesca.
I always worry when people use the expression TINA ( there is no alternative).
It was the term used by Thatcher to force through the neoliberal laws in Britain in the 80s. I therefore distrust the expression a lot !
I was also quite taken aback by the tone joe90 used in answering my straightforward question. ‘ do you really think?”
Anyway, it is good to hear there are alternatives and depressing to realise we are not using them.
The idea that mature bush can be overrun by foreign plants is ridiculous
You’ve not seen the jasminum polyanthum in the Moeawatea, have you.
to clear hillsides for pasture
The Parapara spraying is in preparation for the planting of hillside retention and forestry.
.For instance, regarding wilding pines as carbon sequesters,
Local tramping club members have been dedicating their weekends to eradicating wilding pinus contorta on the central plateau tussock country for more than fifty years, and along comes a know nothing.
Yes they have, as if that tussock country is a natural phenomenon, and the original cover and its not. I suggest carbon sequestration has far better value.
#1 Yep, my understanding is that we’ve got less than 5% of our pre-European forest cover remaining. Too late go digging for a source, but I think I got that from F&B. Not sure if that includes the DOC estate.
Happy to be corrected, but try and find a good stand of remnant bush in Southland, Canterbury Taranaki or King Country. They were solid bush pre-European
Or you (and anyone else who believes the things you repeat) might be satisfied by someone telling you they were going to implement forest cover of 20% of pre-settlement levels and you wouldn’t realise that meant felling another 9.6%.
Southland? Fiordland National Park? That’s a good stand. That said, I’ve long despaired at the clearances – pasture grasses are our most devastating invasive weeds. Hoofed animals the worst threat to forests.
Around 1000 AD, before humans arrived in New Zealand, forest covered more than 80% of the land. The only areas without tall forests were the upper slopes of high mountains and the driest regions of Central Otago. When Māori arrived, about 1250–1300 AD, they burnt large tracts of forest, mainly on the coasts and eastern sides of the two main islands. By the time European settlement began, around 1840, some 6.7 million hectares of forest had been destroyed and was replaced by short grassland, shrubland and fern land. Between 1840 and 2000, another 8 million hectares were cleared, mostly lowland or easily accessible conifer–broadleaf forest.
By 2000 New Zealand had only 6.2 million hectares of native forest. Most of it was on mountainous land and was dominated by southern beech.
So, the percentage of pre-settlement forest remaining is:
I nearly posted that article yesterday Ed…it being a topic close to my home….literally.
What did I learn about agrichemical use in New Zealand after shit got real in the sky over our house back in 2010?
1)We use, as a nation, a shit ton of various pesticides both domestically and commercially. And because we use so many, some pests are developing resistance so folk increase the concentration and use a shit ton more.
2) Most people assume that these chemicals are ‘safe’ else they would not have been approved for use. Most folk trust that ERMA/EPA are there to protect the environment upon which we all depend.
3) I learned that these Hazardous Substances are approved for use providing the instructions on the Label and the Material Safety Data Sheet are followed.
I’ve spoken to a Regional Council enforcement officer who did not know about either of these legal documents. Never mind the average Joe Blow who wanders down to Bunnings and grabs a squirty bottle of Bugs and Fungus BeGone from the gardening section containing carbedazim and chlorpyriphos …if Joe read the MSDS (he wouldn’t though because Bunning’ s, despite it being a Legal Requirement, would’nt have one available) he might decide that death by diarrhea doesn’t sound too good and use the old dishwash instead.
4) I also learned that and Approved Handler’s certificate (which qualifies a person to use many of these agrichemicals can be obtained via the internet….and many Approved Handlers would not know a HSNO classification if it bit them in the bum….or that Enforcement twit from the Regional Council.
5) I also learned that there are something like 20 different Acts pertaining to the use of agrichmeicals, so you’d think that those who use said chemicals would be held to account by some official from some government department if they failed to meet their legal obligations for safe use. What is everyone’s responsibility is no-ones.
6)I also learned that when push comes to shove it is the Regional Council with its powers under the Resource Management Act who theoretically man the Hotline if one feel that said Discharge into the Air has had an adverse effect on one’s land, crops and water supply…not to mention people on the ground inside what is the spray zone since the the chopper came over your property and dumped a hazardous substance on said land, crops and water supply.
7) I also learned that the Regional Council can simply choose not to do any investigation whatsoever…even ignoring their own Regional Plan’s Idiot Guide to investigating complaints of off target application of agrichemicals.
8) I thought I invented the term Agrichemical Trespass…because that’s exactly what it was…but to my utter dismay I discovered that no…there was once, back in the heady days of New Zealand parliamentary history before Labour completely sold its soul (and National never had one to lose)….actually an Agricultural Chemical Trespass Bill… sponsored by Jill White and then Nanaia Mahuta. In 2000.
and …”Now, after three years in the ballot system the Bill has been drawn and was to be introduced into Parliament sometime in September. But Labour caved in to the nozzleheads. Pressure exerted by ERMA and Steve Vaughan from MfE caused Environment Minister Marion Hobbs to “persuade” Nanaia Mahuta to withdraw the Bill, on the promise of a full review of spray drift (how many does that make in the last ten years?). ”
….but lets not get too excited because none of the recommendations actually bore edible fruit…so to speak.
BUT….one can, by Law, defend one’s land, crops, water supply and persons if one feels that trespass in occurring….providing one does not land any blows.
And I have that in writing from the Judge. 😉
(Oh…best not get me started on cancer etc…I could go on for hours…and possibly break TS with links to dozens and dozens of peer reviewed research papers that should make our Environmental Protection Authority and our Ministry of Health ban about a dozen real nasty bastards from use. But no…maybe another time… 🙂 )
Thank you
Your comments are very informative, educational ( for me) and depressing.
They reinforce my thoughts about NZ being a Wild West outlaw country – not in a good way.
One day I’d love to discuss cancer and (IMO) the charities failure to deal with the issue. IMO they are now part of the problem.
“One day I’d love to discuss cancer and (IMO) the charities failure to deal with the issue. IMO they are now part of the problem.”
Because they got my partner’s name while he was in hospital fighting for his life after chemo for Leukaemia, the Leukaemia and Blood Foundation put him on their ‘give us money’ mailing list. Because they refused to answer our inquiry about what research was being done in NZ on occupation and exposures and various types of leukaemia we biff their envelopes straight in the bin.
I’m not sure I fully understood your comment(s) so please bear with me.
My guess is that the Leukaemia and Blood Foundation simply doesn’t know what kind of research is being undertaken in NZ. There is no central comprehensive database of (all) medical research in NZ and there are also many different sources of funding of which charities are just (!) one. (NB there are, of course, centrally collected and analysed patient stats in NZ albeit collected through the various DHBs) For technical questions and the likes they often would (and should) have to consult experts and those are always overcommitted with patient time, etc.
NZ is a small nation and obviously relies heavily on research from overseas. I think that from a clinical point of view research is predominantly focussed on (curative) treatment (and palliative care) and treatment options and this immediate focus moves to early detection & diagnosis as the next priority. From a scientist’s point of view the focus appears to be more on understanding the mechanism of disease that could (ultimately) lead to better treatments. The effects of occupational exposure and its association with the development of cancer may be relegated to a level of lower priority and/or less interest; it may be more relevant to regulatory agencies such as OSH and ACC in NZ but to my knowledge these institutions don’t fund research. This is a little ironic as prevention is better than cure. This is not a NZ thing but a global observation and/or phenomenon.
The NZ Cancer Society puts a lot of emphasis (and money!) on prevention and reducing cancer risk and has been trying really hard to get the important messages out to the general public (incl. schools and EC centres). For example: https://auckland-northland.cancernz.org.nz/reducing-cancer-risk/
Much research from Europe…with Odds Ratios for some types of pesticides that make even a statistically challenged person such as myself sit up and think.
Despite a poster in the haematology clinic listing pesticide exposure as a possible cause of some leukaemias we got zero interest from the medicos when we named the pesticide my partner had had extraordinary exposure to….a chemical which was designed to be a spindle toxin…interfering with rapidly dividing cells…including human lymphocytes at frighteningly low concentrations.
which clearly states…”Undoubtedly, these benzimidazole compounds
will become useful as experimental tools in the
study of microtubule structure and function in
cells. Their use, however, in agriculture as fungicides
and, quantitatively on a minor scale, in veterinary
medicine, should be reconsidered from the
point of view of their mechanism of action. Interference
of MBC with nuclear division in mammalian
cells has been found to occur in vitro (27, 59,
67) and in vivo (59, 67). This implies a potential
genetic risk for man. The toxicology and genetic
effects of benzimidazole compounds have recently
been reviewed by Seiler (59). We agree with him
that the use of pesticides with this type of action
should be restricted.”
And yet, we still, here in Godzone, allow this shit to be loaded into helicopters and sprayed with no controls or regulatory enforcement whatsoever.
And it may be of interest to look into other uses of carbendazim…(2-methyl benzimidazole carbamate)….like replacing formaldehyde for protecting goods from rotting in transit…(it can’t be detected…)
I’ll gladly help, if I can, but this is getting quite specific & technical for OM/TS. That said, OM might be a little like the news-cycle, i.e. short-lived and I think (hope!) it’ll be o.k. to use this space & forum for now; we can go offline if necessary.
I am/was not familiar with the stuff that you linked to and it would require a lot of time & effort to really get into this and review it properly. However, it appears to be a topic that is and has been on your mind so I’ll give it a shot anyway 😉 [it’s rather long; my apologies beforehand]
I noticed that a few papers that you linked to were quite old and science does move on, sometimes very fast. When looking at a paper in PubMed I often look at whether it has been cited in/by other PubMed Central articles (RH side of the screen). Another option to use is LinkOut – more resources beneath the Abstract on the PubMed screen.
The ACC Review (Issue 38) was published over 10 years ago and was “[A] distillation of best practice reflecting ACC’s current position” at the time. As such, it used some data that are now quite dated/out of date, e.g. the New Zealand incidence rates of leukaemia were from 2002 (ref. #6). More recent stats give slightly lower numbers and there has not been an increase in the rate of leukaemia or NHL over 10 years (2006-2015) (https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/new-cancer-registrations-2015-final.xlsx; published 14 Dec 2017). The wording in the ACC Review is careful and although associations between occupational exposures (to known risk factors) and haematological cancers have been observed “the results have been inconsistent”.
Any treating haematologist will be focussing, first and foremost, on diagnosis, treatment, and management of the disease and (much) less so on any possibly association with an occupational origin/cause.
Leukaemia and occupation: a New Zealand Cancer Registry-based case-control Study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18953052). This study was published in 2009. It reported associations between occupation/industry and adult leukaemia but did not show any association let alone a causative link with a specific occupational exposure.
High risk occupations for non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma in New Zealand: case-control study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18032530). A very similar paper as far as I can tell published a year earlier. Interestingly, one of the citing PubMed Central articles was a much more recent one:
Occupation and Risk of Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma and Its Subtypes: A Pooled Analysis from the InterLymph Consortium (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26340796); published in 2016. Again, the conclusions are cautious and tentative without pointing to an (occupational) exposure to a specific chemical:
CONCLUSIONS: Our pooled analysis of 10 international studies adds to evidence suggesting that farming, hairdressing, and textile industry-related exposures may contribute to NHL risk. Associations with women’s hairdresser and textile occupations may be specific for certain NHL subtypes. [my italics]
Pesticides and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1394159). Published in 1992 this paper reviews other even older studies and again just showed that the rising incidence of NHL coincided with a rise in the use of pesticides, particularly of a certain class of herbicides prior to and during that time period. It appears to ignore that there usually is a (long) lag between exposure and the manifestation of cancer. Again, one of the citing articles is quite telling:
Prospective cohort studies are perceived by many as the strongest epidemiologic design. It allows updating of information on exposure and other factors, collection of biologic samples before disease diagnosis for biomarker studies, assessment of effect modification by genes, lifestyle, and other occupational exposures, and evaluation of a wide range of health outcomes. Increased use of prospective cohorts would be beneficial in identifying hazardous exposures in the workplace. Occupational epidemiologists should seek opportunities to initiate prospective cohorts to investigate high priority, occupational exposures. [my italics]
Evaluation of thresholds for benomyl- and carbendazim-induced aneuploidy in cultured human lymphocytes using fluorescence in situ hybridization (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10633176); published in 2000. This study looked at cells in the laboratory and showed that these two related agricultural fungicides caused changes in the number of chromosomes in the white blood cells. However, it did not show that the compounds also caused haematological cancers. In fact, one of the citing articles is on a similar/related compound of the same class of benzimidazoles that showed that its active metabolite also caused changes in the number and structure of chromosomes in cells in the lab as well as in treated animals. The last sentence of the Abstract is quite telling:
Based on the lack of carcinogenicity of this class of benzimidazoles and the intended short-term dosing, it is unlikely that flubendazole treatment will pose a carcinogenic risk to patients. [my italics]
Genotoxicity of flubendazole and its metabolites in vitro and the impact of a new formulation on in vivo aneugenicity (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26443851); published in 2016.
I’d better leave it at this to avoid raising the ire of the TS powers that be 😉
For further technical questions and assistance you could try and contact Associate Professor Andrea ‘t Mannetje, for example; her contact details are available online.
Incognito…firstly, I’m sorry if I gave the impression that I am seeking help of any sort…I’m not.
With all due respect, Incognito, you could be anyone….an academic, an analytical chemist, a politician or a plant protection product peddler….
And while you seem to be keen to reassure me that there is no solid scientific proof of chemical ‘A’ being linked to disease ‘B’ and this is why (presumably) these chemicals are still in widespread use and I shouldn’t be too concerned….I recall medical professionals (but not actual doctors) sidling up to me and whispering that they simply knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that some agrichemicals cause some leukaemias. Even the densest nurse (the one who just did her job and asked no questions and never went beyond the boundaries of her limited training) surprised me one day by telling me how much she’d learned about farming and horticulture just chatting to her chemo patients.
You quote from the abstract for the Bentley paper….did you read the entire paper? Very interesting…and even more so because this research was funded by du Pont..who held the patent for benomyl and carbendazim. I say held…not now, its anyone’s…and since then most developed nations have effectively banned the widespread use of both benomyl and carbendazim… but not here, ’cause we’re special.
And I notice you didn’t mention the truly ancient paper from 1977 I linked to.
That wee gem…https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2110979/pdf/jc721174.pdf I found in the references for a Ministry of Health Food Safety paper justifying the MRL for carbendazim (2-methyl benzimidazole carbamate MBC) being set at 10 times higher than in Europe.
Rips my undies that I can’t link to it…but the writer of the paper had also zoomed in on a few supporting words in the abstract and introduction…and clearly failed to read through to the “Interference
of MBC with nuclear division in mammalian cells has been found to occur in vitro (27, 59,67) and in vivo (59, 67). This implies a potential
genetic risk for man. The toxicology and genetic effects of benzimidazole compounds have recently been reviewed by Seiler (59). We agree with him that the use of pesticides with this type of action should be restricted.” bit.
So…on we go, same as always, spraying nasty chemicals with gay abandon and implying that those with concerns about the potential adverse effects on humans and other organisms are uneducated tinfoilhatwearers.
Here in Godzone it is considered perfectly acceptable for one person to contaminate another person’s land, food crops, water supply and family with a hazardous substance.
First of all I’d like to apologise for the misunderstanding and for possibly coming across as patronising. It was my genuine intention to help.
Indeed, I could be anyone and my pen name here on TS is deliberate so that people can only judge me on my writings and nothing more and nothing else.
Now I have put a bit of time into reading the material and thinking about it I’d like to share my views, also on the off chance that others stumble on this thread. My views are a little divergent from yours 😉
You have probably heard the platitude that science is never settled and this is certainly true for medical science. I personally cringe when I hear somebody stating something with absolute certainty, particularly in the context of science, and most definitely in the context of cancer. In a similar vein, science cannot and must not ‘say it’s o.k.’; it creates and tests knowledge and establishes its boundaries, presents data & information, and simulates & predicts real and/or virtual situations and/or scenarios with associated probabilities (statistics; boundaries). As with all human endeavours, science is not perfect or flawless; in the ideal case at a given time, it’s our best attempt at understanding & explaining stuff – it is fallible though.
Yes, I did read the Bentley paper. I could point out the limitations of this paper for the extrapolation to living organisms from living cells in culture in the lab. The point is that the two mitotic spindle inhibitors (i.e. benomyl and its active metabolite carbendazim) don’t directly interact with DNA but bind to a protein called tubulin (NB very effective anti-cancer drugs are tubulin binders/inhibitors, e.g. Taxol/Paclitaxel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paclitaxel). As indeed expected, this causes changes in number and structure of chromosomes when cells divide (NB white blood cells don’t divide (in blood); it’s the stem cells in the bone marrow that undergo cell division that ultimately produce the (fully differentiated) blood cells). However, this doesn’t necessarily mean that these compounds also cause cancer and due to the lack of any strong supporting evidence they are classified as possible carcinogens. The authors concluded:
In conclusion, the results of this study and the studies of Elhajouji et al. [21, 27] demonstrate that the induction of aneuploidy by mitotic spindle inhibitors exhibits a characteristic dose–response pattern which includes a threshold. The shape of the dose–response curve is similar to that of a ligand-receptor mediated mechanism of action, in this case, the binding to tubulin and the inhibition of microtubule function. Only when the critical threshold concentration is reached and a sufficient number of spindle fibers are affected is aneuploidy induced. Therefore concentrations below the threshold are expected to have no biologically adverse effect.
I did not mention the paper from 1977 because it’s indeed “truly ancient” and because my comment was already getting very long (same again this time …). Based on their knowledge & understanding at the time (in 1976) they stated an (informed) opinion but not a fact!
“It contains shed loads of data on carbendazim, e.g. “[A]ll benomyl registrations were voluntarily cancelled by registrants, effective in January 2002.” and “[S]ince 2014 benomyl is no longer able to be manufactured in or imported into NZ.” (pg. 106 bottom).”
Methinks you are being just a tad deceitful there Incognito…while Benomyl was used in some older formulations, benomyl rapidly degrades to release carbendazim.
Carbendazim is the active ingredient, it is a known mutagen and is most damaging to rapidly dividing cells thus harmful to growing fungi (until they develop resistance), cancer cells, (has been seriously considered, but collateral damage would be expected), sperm production in mammals, immune system function in mammals and birds(even at low concentrations) and foetal growth.
Back to your cherry picked quote…carbendazim is the active ingredient in a number of agrichemical products still manufactured and sold in New Zealand.
Anyone other than Incognito who is bored enough to be following this conversation should really check out those Maximum Residue Limits….some of ours are set at ten times higher than the EU.
One major and quite possibly the main reason why benomyl usage stopped, worldwide, was the fact that the target organisms (i.e. fungi) rapidly developed resistance to it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benomyl).
I thought it was interesting to read that NZ had also stopped benomyl usage as such and thought you’d be interested too; I don’t think this amounts to being “being just a tad deceitful” 🙁
Benzimidazole fungicides include benomyl, carbendazim, fuberidazole, thiabendazole, thiophanate and thiophanate-methyl. They all generate MBC (methyl benzimidazol carbamate), either as the principal active ingredient, or as a breakdown compound formed on mixing with water. [my italics]
I agree that carbendazim has many biological effects but it does not act directly on DNA and there is currently not enough evidence for a causative link to the development of cancer in humans, which is the reason why it (still) is classified as a possible human carcinogen. In addition, because its primary action is through interfering with tubulin, there is a safe dose below which no biological effects are (can be) observed, the so-called threshold (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dose%E2%80%93response_relationship). This is different from ionizing radiation, for example, which has a direct damaging effect on DNA and therefore has no safe dose or threshold (although this is a controversial topic, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis).
I did not “cherry pick[ed] [a] quote” and actually cited & quoted (with links!) a number of quite long and complicated technical documents; they all are freely accessible via the internet for your or anybody’s perusal. I started to engage with this material (and you!) only a few days ago and I have no personal interest in this other than a (intellectual) curiosity (and a somewhat misguided wish to ‘help’).
You mentioned before (@ 10 January 2018 at 12:01 am) “a Ministry of Health Food Safety paper justifying the MRL for carbendazim (2-methyl benzimidazole carbamate MBC) being set at 10 times higher than in Europe” and I provided a link; was that the paper you were referring to? If so, could you please point to the “justifying” section? I note that many of European MRLs are set at the detection limit of ca. 0.1 mg/kg.
We do eat shedloads of haricot beans. Usually from a can and in tomato(ish) sauce.
But really, they complement each other – I actually had beef stir fry with a five bean mix a few days ago. I’m at one extreme – had a dietician who managed to get me out of the habit of eating a roast, just the roast, nothing else, on a plate – but if I’d replaced the beef with just another bean, it would have been quite unnice.
Same here, lots of canned beans but I haven’t looked back since I cottoned on to Geeta’s, a great, high turnover supplier of dried beans/dahls and all things deliciously aromatic.
This article touches on it.
Simple statistics and probability tell us that.
‘But a downward turn lies somewhere ahead, be it a recession, slump or, God forbid, crash. A necessary part of the energy of economic cycles comes from the ebbing of each wave.
History suggests that the next recession is not far off.
The current expansion, though relatively weak, has been steady since June 2009, making this the third-longest upward climb on record.’
And then there are all the economic and political factors that will trigger a collapse. Of the crises proffered below, I think Chiina’s Debt bubble will be straw that breaks the camel’s back.
And if it is that, NZ will be hit hard.
A dairy industry laden with debt will buckle.
‘. It’s not hard to imagine shocks that could trigger a drop.
Democrats could win control of the House and ignite an impeachment crisis.
Mueller’s investigation could take an unsettling turn.
The Federal Reserve could raise interest rates faster than the economy can digest them.
Or the opposite: The Fed could move too slowly and smoldering inflation could catch fire.
China’s debt bubble could burst.
North Korea could erupt.
Or the very real threat, dreaded by Trump’s own economic advisers: The president could deliver on his trade war threats.’
If a recession is coming to the States, it’s likely to be driven primarily by the Republican Party slashing public spending.
That said, I have as much expertise on these matters as Drehle, which is to say none at all.
Any chance you could start using “blockquote” to make it easier to determine which parts of your comments are cut ‘n’ paste and which are your comment? It’d be the polite thing to do.
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Yesterday I happily quoted the Prime Minister without fact-checking him and sure enough, it turns out his numbers were all to hell. It’s not four kg of Royal Commission report, it’s fourteen.My friend and one-time colleague-in-comms Hazel Phillips gently alerted me to my error almost as soon as I’d hit ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Thursday, July 25, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day were:The Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquirypublished its final report yesterday.PM Christopher Luxon and The Minister responsible for ...
The Official Information Act has always been a battle between requesters seeking information, and governments seeking to control it. Information is power, so Ministers and government agencies want to manage what is released and when, for their own convenience, and legality and democracy be damned. Their most recent tactic for ...
TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:Transport and Energy Minister Simeon Brown is accelerating plans to spend at least $10 billion through Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) to extend State Highway One as a four-lane ‘Expressway’ from Warkworth to Whangarei ...
I live my life (woo-ooh-ooh)With no control in my destinyYea-yeah, yea-yeah (woo-ooh-ooh)I can bleed when I want to bleedSo come on, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)You can bleed when you want to bleedYea-yeah, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)Everybody bleed when they want to bleedCome on and bleedGovernments face tough challenges. Selling unpopular decisions to ...
Please note:To skip directly to the- parliamentary footage in the video, scroll to 1:21 To skip to audio please click on the headphone iconon the left hand side of the screenThis video / audio section is under development. ...
Given the crackdown on wasteful government spending, it behooves me to point to a high profile example of spending by the Luxon government that looks like a big, fat waste of time and money. I’m talking about the deployment of NZDF personnel to support the US-led coalition in the Red ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:40 am on Wednesday, July 24 are:Deep Dive: Chipping away at the housing crisis, including my comments RNZ/Newsroom’s The DetailNews: Government softens on asset sales, ...
As I reported about the city centre, Auckland’s rail network is also going through a difficult and disruptive period which is rapidly approaching a culmination, this will result in a significant upgrade to the whole network. Hallelujah. Also like the city centre this is an upgrade predicated on the City ...
Today, a 4 kilogram report will be delivered to Parliament. We know this is what the report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care weighs, because our Prime Minister told us so.Some reporter had blindsided him by asking a question about something done by ...
TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Wednesday, July 24, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Beehive:Transport Minister Simeon Brownannounced plans to use PPPs to fund, build and run a four-lane expressway between Auckland ...
NewstalkZB host Mike Hosking, who can usually be relied on to give Prime Minister Christopher Luxon an easy run, did not do so yesterday when he interviewed him about the HealthNZ deficit. Luxon is trying to use a deficit reported last year by HealthNZ as yet another example of the ...
Back in January a StatsNZ employee gave a speech at Rātana on behalf of tangata whenua in which he insulted and criticised the government. The speech clearly violated the principle of a neutral public service, and StatsNZ started an investigation. Part of that was getting an external consultant to examine ...
Renting for life: Shared ownership initiatives are unlikely to slow the slide in home ownership by much. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:A Deloittereport for Westpac has projected Aotearoa’s home-ownership rate will ...
You're broken down and tiredOf living life on a merry go roundAnd you can't find the fighterBut I see it in you so we gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsWe gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsAnd I'll rise upI'll rise like the dayI'll rise upI'll rise unafraidI'll rise upAnd I'll ...
There’s been a change in Myers Park. Down the steps from St. Kevin’s Arcade, past the grassy slopes, the children’s playground, the benches and that goat statue, there has been a transformation. The underpass for Mayoral Drive has gone from a barren, grey, concrete tunnel, to a place that thrums ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Global society may have finally slammed on the brakes for climate-warming pollution released by human fossil fuel combustion. According to the Carbon Monitor Project, the total global climate pollution released between February and May 2024 declined slightly from the amount released during the same ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Tuesday, July 23 are:Deep Dive: Penlink: where tolling rhetoric meets reality BusinessDesk-$$$’sOliver LewisScoop:Te Pūkenga plans for regional polytechs leak out ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Tuesday, July 23, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Health: Shane Reti announcedthe Board of Te Whatu Ora-Health New Zealand was being replaced with Commissioner Lester Levy ...
Health NZ warned the Government at the end of March that it was running over Budget. But the reasons it gave were very different to those offered by the Prime Minister yesterday. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon blamed the “botched merger” of the 20 District Health Boards (DHBs) to create Health ...
Long ReadKey Summary: Although National increased the health budget by $1.4 billion in May, they used an old funding model to project health system costs, and never bothered to update their pre-election numbers. They were told during the Health Select Committees earlier in the year their budget amount was deficient, ...
As a momentous, historic weekend in US politics unfolded, analysts and commentators grasped for precedents and comparisons to help explain the significance and power of the choice Joe Biden had made. The 46th president had swept the Democratic party’s primaries but just over 100 days from the election had chosen ...
TL;DR: I’m casting around for new ideas and ways of thinking about Aotearoa’s political economy to find a few solutions to our cascading and self-reinforcing housing, poverty and climate crises.Associate Professor runs an online masters degree in the economics of sustainability at Torrens University in Australia and is organising ...
The Finance and Expenditure Committee has reported back on National's Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. The bill sets up water for privatisation, and was introduced under urgency, then rammed through select committee with no time even for local councils to make a proper submission. Naturally, national's select committee ...
Some years ago, I bought a book at Dunedin’s Regent Booksale for $1.50. As one does. Vandrad the Viking (1898), by J. Storer Clouston, is an obscure book these days – I cannot find a proper online review – but soon it was sitting on my shelf, gathering dust alongside ...
History is not on the side of the centre-left, when Democratic presidents fall behind in the polls and choose not to run for re-election. On both previous occasions in the past 75 years (Harry Truman in 1952, Lyndon Johnson in 1968) the Democrats proceeded to then lose the White House ...
This is a free articleCoverageThis morning, US President Joe Biden announced his withdrawal from the Presidential race. And that is genuinely newsworthy. Thanks for your service, President Biden, and all the best to you and yours.However, the media in New Zealand, particularly the 1News nightly bulletin, has been breathlessly covering ...
A homeless person’s camp beside a blocked-off slipped damage walkway in Freeman’s Bay: we are chasing our tail on our worsening and inter-related housing, poverty and climate crises. Photo: Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy ...
What has happened to it all?Crazy, some'd sayWhere is the life that I recognise?(Gone away)But I won't cry for yesterdayThere's an ordinary worldSomehow I have to findAnd as I try to make my wayTo the ordinary worldYesterday morning began as many others - what to write about today? I began ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Monday, July 22 are:Today’s Must Read: Father and son live in a tent, and have done for four years, in a million ...
TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 14, 2024 thru Sat, July 20, 2024. Story of the week As reflected by preponderance of coverage, our Story of the Week is Project 2025. Until now traveling ...
This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Orderimage, ...
Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
Waiting In The Wings:For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSAannounced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent talking about the National-ACT-NZ First Government’s release of its first Emissions Reduction Plan;University of Otago Foreign Relations Professor and special guest Dr Karin von ...
Open access notablesImproving global temperature datasets to better account for non-uniform warming, Calvert, Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society:To better account for spatial non-uniform trends in warming, a new GITD [global instrumental temperature dataset] was created that used maximum likelihood estimation (MLE) to combine the land surface ...
A late change to charter school legislation will cheat educators out of fair pay and negotiating power proving charter schools are just a vehicle to make profit out of our education system. ...
In 2004 te iwi Māori rallied against the Crown’s attempt to confiscate our coastlines and moana with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. This led to the largest hīkoi of a generation and the birth of Te Pāti Māori. 20 years later, history is repeating itself. Today the government has announced ...
It has been five and a half years since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people, and vulnerable adults within state and faith-based institutions. Yesterday, the final report - Whanaketia through pain and trauma, from darkness to light ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to take action off the back of the International Court of Justice ruling on Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine. ...
On Friday the International Court of Justice reaffirmed what Palestinian’s have been telling us for decades: that the occupation and colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israel is illegal and must end immediately. They also called for reparations for Palestinian’s who have lived under Israeli occupation since it began in 1967. ...
Labour calls on the Government to act after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territories is illegal. ...
The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. At the heart of this report are the ...
For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024. “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane. “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says. “This will be our third visit to ...
Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum. While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation. “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan. “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says. “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests. Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
Comment: It was a good two hours into the conversation when Tyrone Marks raised the most basic of questions when I first spoke to him in 2017. “They didn’t explain the things they did to me. They never told me why. And they still haven’t. There’s no explanation for it. ...
Last summer when Matairangi burned, Ginny and Tom stood at the window of their lounge, watching kākā shoot skyward from the burning trees. From the distance, they looked to Ginny like pages torn from books and thrown into a bonfire. It was Tom, voice tight, who told her it was ...
Opinion: The Canadian short story writer Alice Munro – winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2013 – died in May at the age of 92. Her work was about “the damage people inflict on one another in the name of love”, Deborah Treisman wrote in the New Yorker. ...
This month marks two years since the most powerful telescope ever built sent its first pictures back to earth. From its lofty vantage point, beyond the moon in orbit around the sun, the James Webb Space Telescope was tuned to observe the first stars and galaxies being born soon after ...
Comment: After Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ preview several weeks ago, I had some optimism about the Government’s emissions reduction plan. Now I’ve read the discussion document, that hope has been dashed. How can the Government propose a plan that wants to take New Zealand taxpayers’ hard-earned money, and spend ...
Christopher Luxon: hurdles The little man from National jumps hurdles in his sleep. He’s quite good at it in his dreams and even though the reality doesn’t quite match up you have to give him credit for getting up every morning and crashing into the very first hurdle of the ...
Madeleine Chapman rounds out Death Week on The Spinoff with a final recommendation. You can read all of our Death Week coverage here. Nothing forces you to reflect on your life and relationships quite like proximity to death. For those whose nearest and dearest have died, there are reasonably obvious ...
Whitney Greene takes us through her life in television, including the TV character she’d like to plan a funeral for and her cow lung catastrophe on The Traitors NZ. “If the phone rings, I have to answer it,” Whitney Greene from The Traitors NZ warns as we begin our My ...
Maddie Ballard reviews the debut essay collection of Pōneke writer Flora Feltham.In ‘The Raw Material’, the longest essay in Flora Feltham’s dazzling debut collection, the author heads out for a run after hours of weaving and sees the world turn to textile. “Pounding along the Parade, I saw the ...
Andy Christiansen, one half of the experimental rock-pop duo TRiPS, shares the tunes inspiring the band’s perfect weekend and new release. “Good speakers, good food, good music, no distractions”: that’s all you need to enjoy the psychedelic stylings of TRiPS, a new band formed by Fly My Pretties’ Barnaby Weir ...
Celebrating our quadrennial opportunity to become experts in a bunch of sports we never normally watch.The games of the XXXIII Olympiad are upon us. Paris will host this year’s showcase of sporting and athletic prowess, which means some late-night and early-morning viewing for us in Aotearoa.But what sports ...
The photograph is striking and beautiful, but also disturbing – a reminder that my love for John was often entangled in shame.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.In the spring of 1980, in Dunedin, shortly before his death, someone took a photograph ...
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Richard Nixon: I am not a crook !
Donald Trump: I am a very stable genius !
It seems to me that ‘explaining’ is losing.
It’s almost painful to watch:
…throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.
“In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.”
I don’t think he’s sufficiently mentally sophisticated for Dunning-Kruger to even be relevant. He’s pure impulsive reaction to the stimulus of the moment – someone questions his smarts, he has to react bashing back with how smart he is. For Dunning-Kruger to be relevant, there would have to be some actual deliberation about the topic at hand and that seems to be entirely absent.
I guess the offer to the stable genius remains open.
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/354718-mensa-offers-to-host-iq-test-for-trump-and-tillerson
i wish i could get some dunning kruger, it’s a real draw back knowing ones limitations , hell with a bit of dunning kruger i could probably rise to middle management .
@ Stunned Mullet (1) … both liars!
If there are green people reading this please search and watch Dane Wiggington on YouTube.
We are approximately seven years away from total ozone collapse.
And yet the reports show that the ozone is repairing and the situation is improving.
Although a search for said individual without the youtube bit may help you decide how much time you want to spend watching those videos …
Read this in the herald this morning. It’s like she wrote it for some of the posters here.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11969362
Yes, because right wingers never get outraged about anything at all 🙄
Yesterday James wrote a stupid and insulting post where he insulted posters here …. as well as Gerald Hope, the bereaved father of Olivia Hope …. and a lot of other New Zealanders
In this thread I give a hat-tip to Psycho Milt for posting up … ““In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.” …. This was the research I hazily recalled.
I could not be bothered doing a internet search for a troll such as James …. even with his needling and projection of his own dishonesty or stupidity onto me.
James ….. ” I remember the results of a study (also without a citation) that showed the more stupid a person they go insult the original comment and change the topic – without proving a shred of anything to disprove the original comment made.
speaking of “wank wank” “…..
I can not help but wonder whether there is a ‘troll effect ‘ wherein trolls believe other posters are as dishonest and malevolent as themselves.
Do you think this way James ??????
Like the Herald, James brought back unhappy memories for the families.
Them – for profit, which is despicable.
I have no idea why James brought the topic up, but he stooped to a new low that day.
I doubt that they read this blog.
And I was simply commenting on news of the day in open mike.
I thought it interesting.
Well why didn’t you simply write something along the lines of … ‘ I find this interesting but it probably won’t sway the doubters’ …. or something like that.
It was your ‘Dunning–Kruger’ “no doubt” and “nutters” statements of fact that crossed the line and made it into a trolls post.
Bloody poor form ….. especially towards Gerald Hope ….. who would know more about the case than rude punters on the internet.
And while Ed thought that you, james, had stooped to a new low ….. I think you did that when you were decrying ‘leftie’ posters for pointing out the higher rates and increase of suicide that cruel and punitive national/ rightwing / tory policies cause…..
You really are quite happy in not giving a fuck about a lot of things …
Reason
What I find the most repulsive about James is the fact he comes on this site and brags about his rich, privileged life.
Were he to read some of the most poignant contributions from some posters, he would be aware that quite a few of our posters have real challenges they face in life.
But no.
There is not a shred of empathy.
6 days ago I said I would never press reply to James again.
This is now the last time I refer to a troll’s comments.
These are paid disrupters who will continue to land on these shores.
Danegeld only encouraged the Vikings.
I have sympathies those with real issues. No time for people who are just bitter and envious posters who hate people who they perceive to be better off.
As for the paid meme that you have pushed so so many times and always failed to backup – I’ll add it to the list of Ed’s lies.
Warning, link is to Heather du Plessis Allen.
Meant to be reply to James at 3.
She should take her own advice which is not to get picky,angry etc at the smallest indiscretions …
Talk about a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Should your warning not say “warning – author is not part of our wee echo chamber and may think differently therefore please heed this trigger warning”
Heather du Plessis Allen can be relied upon to bring to the nation’s attention whatever issue de jour is troubling her superannuated hubby.
James. this is funny!! That writer is always angry about something or other in her articles, which are generally shallow. Often she pontificates.
She fails to realise the “rage” is a symptom of the feelings being expressed by the general population towards opinionated uncaring comments by often well to do people
How dare we not accept their opinions as facts!! How pushy and stupid of us!! We should know their opinions are superior, therefore true. Yeah right!!
Rage builds over time. It is caused by unrelenting attacks. Attacks meant to deminish.
Memes repeated over and over. She says her friend made a mistake about the “Lipstick on a pig” comment …. No!! She and 98% of the populace felt outraged at that!!
Rage can lead to revolutions!! Luckily ours led to a Coalition government instead.
Are you folk having trouble working out the reply button this morning?
Your comment about “well to do” people gives away your agenda.
As for your “rage” there are pockets – but the majority of people are quite normal and happy.
Her examples are selectively picked, and show little understanding of underlying context. As usual.
“As for your “rage” there are pockets – but the majority of people are quite normal and happy.”
Interesting definition of normal there – rageless – out of pocket – unhappy.
It is normal to have resistance when your values are constantly being eroded by processes beyond your control. Sometimes that manifests as outrage.
Having once been a resident of Wellington’s Eastern suburbs; and familiar with the antics of some members who claim membership of the 4th Estate (even Bill Ralston does that sometimes); and someone who had a close relative confiding in me the relationship of a husband as a ‘daddy figure’ – I could make a prediction.
Pretty sure HdPA will outlive me though, so I won’t be around to see the result.
In the meantime, the best that can be done is to donate to Women’s Refuge because there goes a person that’ll be in need sometime in the future
Wow
Wow is right. What a disgusting post.
No James, most reporters are “well to do” they are not in the lower income bracket, especially Hoskings and others, ie Morgan.
Actually they are generally not paid that much at all. Pointing out the highest paid is a poor example. But generally reporters are non on huge salaries
Heather is not poorly paid.
You stated “most reporters are “well to do” – and im pointing out that MOST are not.
pointing out some of the highest profiles ones in NZ makes a stupid argument.
It’s ok to be outraged, Heather du Plessis-Allen.
Even if your own life is comfortable, others are not.
Your articles could be about writing truth to power.
Something to be outraged about #1
‘‘New Zealand has the worst rate of family and intimate-partner violence in the world. Eighty per cent of incidents go unreported — so what we know of family violence in our community is barely the tip of the iceberg.’
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11970679
It’s good netiquette to use the reply button when not replying to me.
I think the point is that some people are continuously outraged over everything. It’s all part of the snowflake mentality.
If you stop being bitter and outraged over everything you will see how good we have it.
“It’s all part of the snowflake mentality. “
These buzzwords such as “snowflake” used without further explanation, are for the intellectually lazy.
The use of ‘snowflake’ just shows the person to be the alt-right loser we all thought they were.
What does use of ‘alt-right’ indicate?
Thanks for the Gosman One Two – here a couple of links to help you understand the words and their meaning.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/alt-right
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alt-right
Not so hard to use a dictionary here a link to one of those.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/
You called another commentator ‘an alt-right loser’ for using the term, ‘snowflake’
And you can’t see the irony of your actions?…
Adam, your comments here are most often solid, and you take plenty of abuse for your views, and sticking with them..
Don’t give in to dishing out abuse, lowering yourself to levels of others…
I said what I said deliberty, it’s the reality of debating with people standing too close to the elephant. James and others do it all the time.
That said, if your going to be trotting out alt-right memes, I’m going to call you a loser. Simple, really. It’s not abuse, it’s just a statement of position.
And post your edit.
Somethings are ok to be outraged about.
Somethings are not.
Partner abuse – outrage.
A good steak vs a turnip as a base of a meal – shouldn’t outrage.
Problem is some people (Ed) cannot tell the difference and run around being offended by everything and everyone (who has more than them)
who made you the arbiter of outrage? And where were your outraged comments about Tony Veitch the partner abuser?
You can look them up. But confident I didn’t support vetich.
And not outraged. Disgusted yes. And believe he should have gone to jail for what he did.
I looked up posts under the Veitch tag, and couldn’t see you anywhere. Where was your “outrage” or “disgust”, not your “lack of support”?
Tesla could be the first electric car manufacturer to go broke.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11970656
Tony Stark goes all Icarus.
Check that share price out: so much heat, so few good fundamentals.
Once he’s finished the swan dive, someone like Ford, Amazon or Alphabet to scoop up the remains and do something useful with them.
Best watch those Lithium-exposed stocks as well.
It’s ok to be outraged, Heather du Plessis-Allen.
Even if your own life is comfortable, others are not.
Some people don’t have it good.
Your articles could be about writing truth to power.
Like Alison Mau.
Something to be outraged about #2
‘Alison Mau: Don’t waste your breath excusing the Rhythm and Vines groper.
: It’s heartbreaking to think that young women taking part in one of summer’s great pleasures – hanging out with mates at a festival – cannot do so safely, whatever they choose to do with their boobs. It’s heartbreaking to see the feeble-minded, rape-apologist abuse that 20-year-old Madeline Anello-Kitzmiller has faced since she was assaulted at Rhythm and Vines a week ago.
Actually, scrub that. It’s not heartbreaking. Too late for that. Our hearts have been breaking over this shiz for generations. Thanks to the revelations of 2017; the Weinstein monster and Louis CK’s uninvited masturbation and all the many, many others, we’re all bloody furious.
It’s enraging, not heartbreaking. You can see, hear and feel this among women young and old on social media and in interviews on mainstream platforms. It’s in the words of the organisers of Times Up, the campaign formed by Hollywood women that promises to help women from lower paying industries get justice in sexual harassment cases‘
https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/100328136/alison-mau-dont-waste-your-breath-excusing-the-rhythm-and-vines-groper
You are literally running around the Internet looking for things to be outraged about. That would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.
Whataya reckon about those coked-up All Blacks! Outrageous!
I prefer them coked up.
Gives a good snort to their Haka.
I have already warned OUR Mighty All Blacks about what I see that is going on in OUR World media I think the way to combat this is to get everyone asoseated with the AB to sign a confilct of intrset contract .Kia kaha
PS I put my ECO MAORI signs back on my truck 2 weeks ago .
Ana to kai
Ad
Lol
I do too.
…. and have you noticed? With apologies to an Edmonds cook book – the harder they (our sporting oikons) rise, the harder they fall.
Awe ,,,, shame eh?
I better turn on Skoi New Australia to see who the latest is
Linked to an issue at 6, the All Blacks have been in the news for domestic violence.
Joking about their abuse of drugs is no laughing matter. When these sports players get drunk, some of them hit their partners.
Thugby.
New Zealand’s game.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11717666
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/8578164/All-Black-Julian-Savea-charged-with-assault
That applies to you James. Self-knowledge – lacking – tragic!
Psychological projection I think. Just lie down on this couch and tell us about yourself and your concerns. No on second thoughts don’t!
The Babylonian Talmud (500 AD) notes the human tendency toward projection and warns against it: “Do not taunt your neighbour with the blemish you yourself have.”[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Hmmm, perhaps this is the reason why AB scrums often collapse near the side-line: the white line 🤔
Edit: Easily fixed with a ‘white line test’ 😉
Well they’re young (mostly), supremely fit, spare time and excess cash so its not surprising
Since you make the comment – show me just one current all black team member who has been caught taking coke ?
Caught? Nah, mate, Richie showed them how not to get caught . Doesn’t mean they’re clean though, does it and the word is, they’re filthy with it! You reckon there’s no substance to the claim 🙂
I prefer some evidence before I state as a fact – of which you have none.
But to clarify – are you stating as a fact that Richie McCaw showed other All Blacks how not to get caught taking cocaine?
You sound quite outraged at the suggestion.
Not really. I think it more pathetic.
Its just sad that someone would try to make such allegations against somebody (and a high profile person at that) with zero evidence.
Yep pretty stupid stuff, especially from an elected councillor.
The only thing I can think of is that Guyton’s been hitting the nettle wine a bit too much.
At least that’s anecdotal evidence that you think.
😆
High dudgeon indeed. Go fuck yourself, James.
Sit down and read Alison Mau carefully James. And then read HDA. There’s no comparison. They both were published today. One is written by a very intelligent woman of considerable substance. The other is shallow and adds very little of consequence to the harassment debate.
You set out at ‘3’ to enrage the already enraged on this site. You succeeded, but this time you got it wrong. I wonder if you have the guts to ‘apologise’ as the gentleman in Mau’s article did?
We need more outraged not less.
”The anger window is open.”
From the article.
‘They came together in anger, says co-chair of the Nike Foundation Maria Eitel, not because they wanted to “whine, or complain, or tell a story or bemoan. They came together because they intended to act. There was almost a ferociousness to it.”
As far back as early November – and doesn’t THAT seem like eons ago – Rebecca Traister wrote in New York Magazine that “the anger window is open”.
“This is ’70s-style, organic, mass, radical rage, exploding in unpredictable directions,” she wrote.’
This one sums up the outrage mentality that HDA was writing about perfectly.
https://youtu.be/F-mju_gW3c8
You and HDP confuse enkratês with virtue – a cheap trick. There is a place for anger, especially in a country as ravaged by corruption and neoliberal misgovernance as NZ.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old Soper should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
It’s ok to be outraged, Heather du Plessis-Allen.
Even if your own life is comfortable, others are not.
Some animals don’t have it good.
Your articles could be about writing truth to power.
Like Holly Button and Matt Walker.
Something to be outraged about #3
Animal cruelty at rodeos
‘A call to action from the Animal Justice League New Zealand resulted in approximately 60 people taking part in a demonstration outside Canterbury Rodeo today.
“The turnout was greater than anticipated, which shows just how quickly people are learning about rodeo cruelty and agree that the government should implement a full ban on rodeos in NZ,” said a member of the group.
“People from town and country united, to send a clear message to organisers and attendees that New Zealanders are sick of animal abuse being touted as entertainment,” Animal Justice League NZ Spokesperson Holly Button.’
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1801/S00111/protestors-take-a-stand-against-rodeo-cruelty.htm
Mr Walker said the president of the Canterbury Rodeo Club, Jono Reed, then came over and in front of about eight security staff told him they did not want any filming that would cast rodeo in a negative light.
“Is that really acceptable? [I told him] it seems like you’re trying to censor out unbiased and independent filming from the event,” he said.‘
‘http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/347590/activist-trespassed-from-rodeo
It’s ok to be outraged, Heather du Plessis-Allen.
Even if your own life is comfortable, others are not.
Our environment doesn’t have it good.
Your articles could be about writing truth to power.
Like Peter Anderson
Something to be outraged about #4
The state of our waterways
‘In 2009, 70 percent of bathing sites were suitable for public recreation. Today, that figure has dropped to 58 percent.
Peter Anderson of Forest and Bird said land intensification is a significant cause of the water quality crisis.
“The level of intensification has got in front of the ability to manage the environmental impacts from that intensification. Canterbury is at the forefront of it,” he said.
Mid-Canterbury crop and dairy farmer Ian Mackenzie said the government’s plan to end irrigation loans is the wrong answer. He said that as well as boosting grass growth, irrigation can also dilute polluting nitrates in the urine from livestock through techniques such as managed aquifer recharging.
However, Mr Anderson said that doesn’t address the underlying problem which is that we have too many cows.
“There’s no treatment of the effluent of cows. We need to think differently if we’re going to try reduce the impact of land intensification.”
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/outspoken/audio/2018627863/outspoken-canterbury-water
How about we stop responding to a smug troll who is (ironically) simply looking to provoke outrage?
This is a really interesting and though-provoking article about the end of life/assisted dying bill, using the experiences and opinions of a guy with Motor Neuron Disease who says that 10 years ago he would have opted for death but now he treasures every moment of life. He feels the bill discriminates against the disabled, implying their lives are worth less than the able-bodied. Worth thinking about.
How about we think for a minute before posting so all points that want to be made, especially the same one, can be contained in one outing instead of being strewn down the page like rant man dribble.
Tedious. 🙄
4 separate points actually.
All that should provoke outrage.
And all worthy of debate.
One thing they’re not is tedious.
The 4 separate points
Domestic violence
Sexual abuse
Rodeos
Waterways
Same point, four examples, should have been in one post.
It makes your outrage like a meme generator stuck on ego boost.
Show some courtesy, Paul, and think a bit before hitting submit.
I fail to see why calling people’s attention to those four issues requires you to cut ‘n’ paste huge screeds of other peoples’ work while adding little of your own.
Almost everything I read on the subject makes me change my position at least twice.
Yeah, it’s much more complex than many arguing for (or against) it acknowledge. I do think it’s a discussion worth having, but I also think that the bill as it stands is rather loose, and I have to say the article I linked to above gives a great example illustrating one of the problems embedded within it. Who would have argued that this guy wasn’t “of sound mind” or aware of the outcome of his decision 10 years ago (when he did actually try to take his own life)? And yet he’s glad of the years he’s had since then and now finds joy in his life as it is, wanting it to continue for as long as it can.
On the one hand I think people ought to be able to choose, and on the other I think it’s inappropriate to formalise it so long as massive health inequality persists.
Little wonder his base adores him.
In the past year, we have had many of the same conversations with the same sources Wolff used. We won’t betray them, or put on the record what was off. But, we can say that the following lines from the book ring unambiguously true:
How Trump processes (and resists) information:
https://www.axios.com/the-wolff-lines-on-trump-that-ring-unambiguously-true-2522675021.html
Some Trumpology on twitter today: the art of tweeting like Trump….or not.
Mimi Kramer thread, includes:
Jeet Heer thread
Wasn’t there a thing during the election where someone noticed that the deranged tweets came from an android and the more sane tweets came from an iphone?
So now the iphone users have hired a mimic…
President Trump will keep successfully delivering for his base and for the Republican donors until late 2020 at least.
Wolfe’s effect is simply to confirm the new standard that a President needs to achieve to remain in power.
So far he has delivered precisely:
– Huge tax cuts for businesses and for individuals
– Roll back soft marijuana laws
– Roll back transgender rights in the military
– Drill for oil into the arctic and any part of the seabed you like
– Full repudiation of the mainstream media
– Massive funding support for the military
– Strangulation of Obamacare
– Locked up the Supreme Court for many years
– Halved refugee quota and massive immigration crackdown from terrorist-harbouring states
– Repudiation of intelligence and justice structures within Washington – which is his version of “draining he swamp”.
– Put the shits up North Korea’s leadership so much that fresh dialogue has broken out between North and South Korea for the first time in many years.
– Shifted the balance of power in the Middle East with a few largely symbolic moves
He said what he was going to do beforehand, and he is doing it.
Now, all he has to do in the next three years is make a start on his great barrier wall, and he is a nomination lock for the Republican ticket.
I don’t like him, but if I were a Republican I would be calling him The Milkman.
Odd line in a movie: was watching a recording of the 2007 movie “The Brave One” – strange movie – not very good and still haven’t finished watching it.
But it has this odd line in the movie – could now be seen as incitement to assassination? Foster plays a vigilante killer in New York city, killing “bad” people. here she’s in a life while people are talking about the unknown killer.
Some of us on thestandard site are wondering why all of a sudden there is no more articles reporting the Climatic changed weather events that has just been hammering OUR beautiful Country .
I say that NZMEDIA is being influenced by the long tentacles of that country that just pulled out of the Paris climate change pact. Not just NZMEDIA the WORLDS Media is being influenced by this administration which is run by billionaires they let there $$$$$$$$$ influence there choices and not logic and this is why they are running a campaign to block as many articles as they can that even mentions climate change .
There is usually a couple of articles on the Guardian about events like this unusual climatic changed weather that has hit New Zealand and at least one on these sites Euro news Niki Asian news . I have scour our Worlds media for articles about climate change for years under the Obama administration there was heaps of data on climate change not now.
Here is a link showing how our New Zealand Media has slid down OUR Worlds ranking on freedom of speech. and ICE Lands fines for business that do not pay there lady s the same as men mhttps://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjymJfUg8TYAhULx7wKHYiqD28QFgg-MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.massey.ac.nz%2Fmassey%2Fabout-massey%2Fnews%2Farticle.cfm%3Fmnarticle_uuid%3DF1B6840E-9487-95EF-D57E-3DD68DC4A4AB&usg=AOvVaw0FBRyqW7bHGqQqFvhMgbIden.
Many thanks to those intelligent STARS for the Tautoko of OUR LORDYS choice of not going to Israel .
PS Lordy don;t worry to much about the bad publicity that you are getting from FOX NEWS as all they are doing in reality is adding to your Mana . Ka kite ano
https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjymJfUg8TYAhULx7wKHYiqD28QFgg-MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.massey.ac.nz%2Fmassey%2Fabout-massey%2Fnews%2Farticle.cfm%3Fmnarticle_uuid%3DF1B6840E-9487-95EF-D57E-3DD68DC4A4AB&usg=AOvVaw0FBRyqW7bHGqQqFvhMgbId
freedom of speech
https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwixs4qGlMTYAhVEG5QKHdKPBaEQFggyMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Fnews%2Ficeland-gender-pay-gap-illegal-men-pay-more-women-income-salary-earn-a8139141.html&usg=AOvVaw3DvD2dhYpcc2CN7vyulvJC
I am teaching my self how to post links please have patients while I learn this skill. As I m self taught in most of the things I have learned
Ka pai
eco maori, there’s a FAQ (frequently asked questions) page here on The Standard that can help you insert links without having to have those big long site addresses showing. It’s a bit hard to get used to at first, but I taught myself by having two version of TS open at once, with the FAQ page sitting there for me to look at when needed. Here’s a link to the page. Good luck if you decide to use it.
eco maori
If you get stuck just say and we will advise. Was confused by it myself – as seeing to be difficult to control the links and just have a term highlighted instead. Then, got it, easy peasy.
thanks for the tip red blooded Ka pai
3. James, please realise, we do not share your blithe view of the world, and mostly we do not rate Heather or her husband’s views very highly.
So you have had your excitement for the day by quoting her, and getting responses. We know you are here James. Glad to confirm it. (Oh, and we personally are not rich, but neither are we poor, so there is no agenda as you put it.)
Had Heather written a thoughtful piece about road rage, or as Ed suggested family violence, then we could discuss the underlying reasons in both cases.
However, as usual Heather was trite superficial and selective in writing about rage.
Her friend may not be feeling so friendly right now, having her opinions and feelings so used.
The other day you accused someone here of being part of an “echo chamber” yet you quote Heather as a support for your views. Oh, the irony!!
I think if there is anything to be learned from this episode it is that its of paramount importance for everybody to *stop* replying to James at the top of the thread. Best to keep that top of mind I would say.
Or Nic, just ban james….his bbq is on fire.
Ire-onic oik outraged about outrage.
Has anyone else noticed plants confusing the seasons? We have plants 6+ weeks early, but few bees as yet. Not the usual Rotorua pattern.
Apricots were really early this year.
This may have already been alluded to on this site, but it takes the cake:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/05/republican-senators-christopher-steele-investigation-chuck-grassley-lindsey-graham
Like snotty nosed brats in a playground they play the legal version of a fist fight cos someone pimped on them so… we’s is gonna teach em a lesson.
The mighty totara has fallen… We’ll miss you Jim.
Reports that Jim Anderton has died. If so, we’ve lost one of the good ones.
Edit:
“Today I am a little lost for words. Jim was a huge influence on my life and someone who I will miss a great deal. There will be lot of words said about his political achievements but today I am thinking of a kind, compassionate and giving man. A man I am proud to have known and call a friend.”
Megan Woods MP
Rest In Peace comrade. You made a difference.
From my generation, I loved the work that you did forming the Ministry of Economic Development, rolling out a new framework of public sector coherence with the Growth and Innovation Framework, and rolling out regional economic development that really gave hope and delivery to dozens of communities right across New Zealand. And did it, unusually for the left, with sound business experience behind you.
Others will remember the cataclysmic fights on the floor of Labour Party conferences back in the day – a bit early for me.
Still others will remember the work for the people of Wigram electorate and of Christchurch more generally.
Awesome to see a life well lived in service to others.
Jim you were and are an inspiration.
There’s a post up about Anderton. A great loss.
18:51 minutes long, Abby Martin investigates the murders of social leaders, union organizers and indigenous activists in Colombia.
Brilliant idea.
‘From now on, The Daily Blog will be naming all storms hitting NZ by the names of MPs who are doing sweet bugger all and by the NZ Corporations exacerbating climate change.’
There is a photo in the Listener this week ( on page 2 and on page 23) which sums up the world so well in 2017.
In the background, a massive forest fire burns.
In the foreground, seemingly unperturbed by the conflagration, three rich white men continue to play golf on their well watered golf course.
The photo is a metaphor for the world today.
Anyone else see it?
Can you explain just how you know they are “rich”?
Fixed it for you…
In the foreground, seemingly unperturbed by the conflagration, three
richnot-poor white men continue to play golf on their well watered golf course.lol nice
Ed just assumes.
It’s a jealousy thing s/he has.
I’m on the verge of giving up on The Standard because many here continue to feed the troll. You’re being gamed and yet you continue to respond to James.
He is not genuine and his purpose is simply to inflame, obscure, abuse and divert yet you continue to indulge him.
Why? He’s not very bright but seems smarter than many here who continue to be willing to let him undermine discussion.
Please, if you care about rigorous, open debate, ignore him. Otherwise he and others like him, win.
I heartily agree – I’m fed up with conversations being derailed because some people don’t seem to be able to resist taking the bait – it’s potentially ruining a valuable and informative site
That is why they come on to these sites “PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS”, BM was having a Field Day yesterday I think it was ?
They are actually paid by the Right Wingers/Neoliberals to derail discussions on sites like these and influence peoples thinking, WAKE UP DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS, just ignore their comments.
Let’s look at this thread (24)
I made an observation about a photo in the Listener.
That was ok, wasn’t it?
The reason I asked the question is very simple.
I happen to know that golf course. It is a Public course, just like Chamberlain Park in Auckland. It can be played by anyone at all and it is cheap.
As of the date of that photo the Green fees for 18 holes would have been $18.00 US. That is equivalent to $25.00 NZ.
To play 18 holes at Chamberlain park today would cost you $28.00. In other words it is cheaper than the best known Public course in Auckland. Now do you really think that they are clearly rich, which was your assumption, just because they were playing golf?
Do you somehow think that only rich people play golf? That seems an awfully bold assumption doesn’t it?
I repeat. How do you know, or even think, that they are “three rich white men”.
Golf: green fees, clubs, carts, snappy gloves, maybe even spikey shoes
Football: Ball. Open space. Maybe spikey shoes, if your open space is grass.
And appealing to your experience as an internationally-travelling golfer sort of supports the assumption that golfers, as a general rule, sure aren’t poor.
And I thought you were a truly sensible intelligent gentleman.
Still, anyone who loves a fine cigar cannot be all bad.
Actually I have never played the course. I have a close friend, now living in New Zealand, who lived there and played the course regularly. He had always told me, at great length, about how good a course it was and how cheap it was to play there.
I should possibly have put the word “of” between “know” and “that ” in the second sentence. It would then have read “know of that golf course”
He was the one who rang me and told me that a picture of the place was in the Listener.
I do play golf though. You do need clubs but they last for 20 years. You don’t really need a glove but if you do you can get one for $10 or so. You don’t need a cart. A hand pulled trolley will do and if you only want a half set or so you can carry the bag. You do need shoes but they don’t have to be spiked. In fact most clubs ban spiked shoes these days.
Golf is actually quite a cheap sport in New Zealand and in many other parts of the world. I met a person in Scotland a few years ago who lived in St Andrews. He, a person over 65, could play unlimited rounds on all the St Andrews courses for 150 pounds a year! That included about 5 courses, including the holy-of-holies, “The Old Course”. I could have wept.
Don’t even consider playing in Japan of course.
No. Don’t try and defend Ed. He made a bull-shit comment based on an obsession about white male people in the US and a total lack of knowledge about his subject.
I’m sure that, when he reads how silly his interpretation of the photo was, that he will come back and tell us that he regrets those foolish assumptions and there was nothing to justify his claim.
Yes, I believe that all those amounts are trivial to you.
Jimmy. I bet you $1000 that I’m. It paid to post here. Care to back up your “actually” statement ?
How is my comment about the golf bad?
I have not replied to James for 6 days despite continuous provocation.
Are there other solutions to ridding this site of such sniping comments?
Is ignoring the only solution?
If you take an average day, you’ll see nearly 50% of Open Mike taken up by smarmy and unpleasant comments made by these people.
If they are paid, they will come whatever, won’t they?
How does the Daily Blog deal with them as they rarely appear there.
Hi Ed You kept at it and spurred me on to take a healthy break but I’m back in the chocs, but in a controlled way.
I think that the mods could decide that we take a democratic decision on who is a troll, and give them bans when they are pushing their luck. Or limit them somehow to three a day. Others get bans, CV vanished, Pete George likewise. It just needs a change in the rules. There can be so much criticism of what regular interested commenters say, and yet the trolls dance in and out interfering with the flow of discussion and sometimes destroying it.
Let’s do it TS. You could announce that you think someone is a troll and if someone can find anything worthwhile to set against that then they get another chance perhaps (depends who it is – I think we know the habits of those who regularly come here).
I have been irritated for ages and it is good to see others becoming vocal. There are those who are so combative or didactic that they cannot stop themselves replying and on and on it goes – it’s time consuming when the blog is working as it should and there is lots of discussion and different views, and that is what makes it worthwhile and I think valuable to NZ as a whole, which has had a drought of political discussion for most people, for many decades. But I’m not going to put the time in if we are just getting people flitting about with froth and spittle and sly digs. And they watch amused as they manipulate the moderators to tell us regulars off. Bah.
So don’t let us lose the valuable thing for want of some firm rules. It’s a problem I have noticed in groups that are people’s initiatives – they want to be open and welcoming and some will have pet interests and people they want to be kind to or something. They won’t do their gardening – judicious pruning to keep the thing healthy.
‘Let’s do it TS. You could announce that you think someone is a troll and if someone can find anything worthwhile to set against that then they get another chance perhaps (depends who it is – I think we know the habits of those who regularly come here).’
I second your motion.
The muppet sandflys were swarming today I have a warning for the public these particular sandflys are transmitters and carriers of a very nasty virus this virus is not deadly but you are stuffed when you get it.
It is called idiotitouselfrighteousbigotitesgullibleites that s the scientific terminology for this virus.
The symptoms are started when one is flashed with a shiny object one suffer from gullibility the other symptoms only surface after six months with out treatment they turns you into a Idiot self righteous bigots so be warned stay clear of these sandflys and if you cannot keep them away use plenty of insect repellent and use a mosquito net. ana to kai . The sandflys caused a incident on the road today it looked like no one was hurt just a mess it was just before Pyes Pa school I never harm anyone I respect everything so don t put the blame on me ka pai
One of the post I put out yesterday checked the move the sandflys and the trolls were trying to pull .I wonder what bulshit spinning lines they are going to come up with next.??????? . Kia Kaha
Sandflies.
Nice metaphor.
There is nothing more mind destroying that ignoring people. Freezing them out by not acknowledging they even exist. Just ignore the trolls, they are just pesky irritants. Just carry on the dialogue and leave them to their musings – in the end they will get fed up with communicating with themselves and nobody else. It will bore them and they will wander away and piss somebody else off elsewhere. This site doesn’t need them.
I was told once years ago, if somebody is irritating you or causing you psychological harm then just walk away from them, give them away, shrug them off. There is no cure for what they offer so give them up. It works.
Sydney today
47 degrees.
Another record – not in a good way.
I was listening to Dr Kevin Anderson the other day.
It’s looking more and more like we’re heading for catastrophic climate change.
‘It was 47.1 degrees Celsius in one part of Sydney, Australia on Sunday afternoon.
Penrith sweltered under what was the highest temperature ever recorded in the Greater Sydney region, on a day of baking heat that saw international tennis cancelled and residents flock to the beach in droves.
The observation station, to the west of Sydney towards the Blue Mountains, reached 47.1 degrees just before 2pm.’
https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/100383638/sydney-sizzles-through-its-hottest-day-on-record
Here is Kevin Anderson.
Makes for sober viewing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-T22A7mvJoc
A simple way you can make a positive step in the world and reduce your plastic footprint.
Use your own cup when ordering a takeaway coffee.
‘The UK throws away 2.5 billion paper coffee cups every year, with just one in 400 estimated to be recycled..’
I wonder what our numbers look like….
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/latte-levy-plastic-pollution-waste-coffee-shops-cups-a8144236.html
I learnt several things from this interesting article:
1. The article claims New Zealand is the most deforested country in the world. Hope that is wrong – or that’s another depressing statistic about our environment.
2. Our use of toxic weed killers is getting into our waterways.
3. European and British tourists see themselves as ‘greener’ than us.
4. We produce little organic food.
5. Europe and the UK have stricter laws about the use of glyphosate thanks.
Some thoughts and questions ……
I wonder if that affects our cancer rates.
The charities who raise money for cancer don’t/won’t broach any such subject as they are dependent on corporate money.
Is New Zealand the most deregulated state in the OECD apart from the failed Trumpian reality states of Umrica?
Are we the Alabama of the Pacific?
https://www.odt.co.nz/business/farming/tourists-shocked-nz-herbicide-use
Blue-leaved wattle, boneseed, cathedral bells, Chilean rhubarb. climbing spindleberry, pinus contorta, wilding pines, several varieties of barberry, evergreen buckthorn, heather, old mans beard, Asiatic and giant knotweed, California bulrush, purple loosestrife, African feather grass, Chinese pennisetum, nassella tussock, and woolly nightshade are just a few of the more 300 invasive and production pest plant species in the Whanganui – Rangitikei region.
TINA.
Aren’t there less devastating poisons than this?
Some species have run rampant for more than a century because of a lack of viable control methods and other, later, arrivals have taken hold in a way nobody could have imagined.
Do you really think the people trying to eradicate these pests are all gung-ho about how they go about their task. They’re not. They’re well qualified realists facing facts; if these species aren’t eradicated all we’ll be left with is vast swathes of dead, strangled native flora, jiggered, grow-nothing pastures/arable land and waterways choked to death by aquatic pests.
oh bullshit
Foreign weeds only get a foothold on disturbed land and the margins of bush ,as does muehlenbeckia for that matter.The idea that mature bush can be overrun by foreign plants is ridiculous.
The article ED was referring to pointed out the use of Glyphosate to clear hillsides for pasture.That kind of wholesale poisoning when mechanical means are available is ecological madness
And waterways are successfully cleared in many parts of NZ by the use of white carp, who don’t breed in NZ waters, are totally vegetarian so don’t compete with native species to any degree, and dont muddy the bottom of lakes.
Glyphosate is like the Final Solution, and its overuse leads to plant resistance, just like antibiotic overuse has led to superbugs.
We do need to get smarter, and some things we just have to live with .For instance, regarding wilding pines as carbon sequesters, which may have greater value than sheep
Thanks for all that information Francesca.
I always worry when people use the expression TINA ( there is no alternative).
It was the term used by Thatcher to force through the neoliberal laws in Britain in the 80s. I therefore distrust the expression a lot !
I was also quite taken aback by the tone joe90 used in answering my straightforward question. ‘ do you really think?”
Anyway, it is good to hear there are alternatives and depressing to realise we are not using them.
You’ve not seen the jasminum polyanthum in the Moeawatea, have you.
The Parapara spraying is in preparation for the planting of hillside retention and forestry.
Local tramping club members have been dedicating their weekends to eradicating wilding pinus contorta on the central plateau tussock country for more than fifty years, and along comes a know nothing.
Yes they have, as if that tussock country is a natural phenomenon, and the original cover and its not. I suggest carbon sequestration has far better value.
Joe90 is very aggressive in discussion.
We’re talking about the central North Island’s high plateau.
Of course tussock is a natural phenomenon,
As much as humans are part of nature I suppose
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/0028825X.1994.10410471
No matter what its end designation , glyphosate shouldnt be the default answer when other means are available.
#1 Yep, my understanding is that we’ve got less than 5% of our pre-European forest cover remaining. Too late go digging for a source, but I think I got that from F&B. Not sure if that includes the DOC estate.
Happy to be corrected, but try and find a good stand of remnant bush in Southland, Canterbury Taranaki or King Country. They were solid bush pre-European
Thank you
A sad statistic.
Before you go believing and then repeating it everywhere, get the facts straight.
Or you (and anyone else who believes the things you repeat) might be satisfied by someone telling you they were going to implement forest cover of 20% of pre-settlement levels and you wouldn’t realise that meant felling another 9.6%.
Southland? Fiordland National Park? That’s a good stand. That said, I’ve long despaired at the clearances – pasture grasses are our most devastating invasive weeds. Hoofed animals the worst threat to forests.
‘Hoofed animals the worst threat to forests.‘
and waterways
This from Te Ara:
So, the percentage of pre-settlement forest remaining is:
6.2/(6.2+6.7+8) x 100 = 29.6%
I nearly posted that article yesterday Ed…it being a topic close to my home….literally.
What did I learn about agrichemical use in New Zealand after shit got real in the sky over our house back in 2010?
1)We use, as a nation, a shit ton of various pesticides both domestically and commercially. And because we use so many, some pests are developing resistance so folk increase the concentration and use a shit ton more.
2) Most people assume that these chemicals are ‘safe’ else they would not have been approved for use. Most folk trust that ERMA/EPA are there to protect the environment upon which we all depend.
3) I learned that these Hazardous Substances are approved for use providing the instructions on the Label and the Material Safety Data Sheet are followed.
I’ve spoken to a Regional Council enforcement officer who did not know about either of these legal documents. Never mind the average Joe Blow who wanders down to Bunnings and grabs a squirty bottle of Bugs and Fungus BeGone from the gardening section containing carbedazim and chlorpyriphos …if Joe read the MSDS (he wouldn’t though because Bunning’ s, despite it being a Legal Requirement, would’nt have one available) he might decide that death by diarrhea doesn’t sound too good and use the old dishwash instead.
4) I also learned that and Approved Handler’s certificate (which qualifies a person to use many of these agrichemicals can be obtained via the internet….and many Approved Handlers would not know a HSNO classification if it bit them in the bum….or that Enforcement twit from the Regional Council.
5) I also learned that there are something like 20 different Acts pertaining to the use of agrichmeicals, so you’d think that those who use said chemicals would be held to account by some official from some government department if they failed to meet their legal obligations for safe use. What is everyone’s responsibility is no-ones.
6)I also learned that when push comes to shove it is the Regional Council with its powers under the Resource Management Act who theoretically man the Hotline if one feel that said Discharge into the Air has had an adverse effect on one’s land, crops and water supply…not to mention people on the ground inside what is the spray zone since the the chopper came over your property and dumped a hazardous substance on said land, crops and water supply.
7) I also learned that the Regional Council can simply choose not to do any investigation whatsoever…even ignoring their own Regional Plan’s Idiot Guide to investigating complaints of off target application of agrichemicals.
8) I thought I invented the term Agrichemical Trespass…because that’s exactly what it was…but to my utter dismay I discovered that no…there was once, back in the heady days of New Zealand parliamentary history before Labour completely sold its soul (and National never had one to lose)….actually an Agricultural Chemical Trespass Bill… sponsored by Jill White and then Nanaia Mahuta. In 2000.
http://www.nzlii.org/nz/legis/hist_bill/actb2000541317/
and …”Now, after three years in the ballot system the Bill has been drawn and was to be introduced into Parliament sometime in September. But Labour caved in to the nozzleheads. Pressure exerted by ERMA and Steve Vaughan from MfE caused Environment Minister Marion Hobbs to “persuade” Nanaia Mahuta to withdraw the Bill, on the promise of a full review of spray drift (how many does that make in the last ten years?). ”
The same article states that the Green s adopted the Bill but I’ve not heard a dicky birds about it since….https://organicnz.org.nz/magazine-articles/pesticide-report/
They did, as promised, set up ATMAC…which produced this…https://www.mfe.govt.nz/sites/default/files/agrichemical-trespass-mac-report-nov02_0.pdf
….but lets not get too excited because none of the recommendations actually bore edible fruit…so to speak.
BUT….one can, by Law, defend one’s land, crops, water supply and persons if one feels that trespass in occurring….providing one does not land any blows.
And I have that in writing from the Judge. 😉
(Oh…best not get me started on cancer etc…I could go on for hours…and possibly break TS with links to dozens and dozens of peer reviewed research papers that should make our Environmental Protection Authority and our Ministry of Health ban about a dozen real nasty bastards from use. But no…maybe another time… 🙂 )
Thank you
Your comments are very informative, educational ( for me) and depressing.
They reinforce my thoughts about NZ being a Wild West outlaw country – not in a good way.
One day I’d love to discuss cancer and (IMO) the charities failure to deal with the issue. IMO they are now part of the problem.
“…and depressing.”
Mate…you have no idea.
Tell me another day.
“One day I’d love to discuss cancer and (IMO) the charities failure to deal with the issue. IMO they are now part of the problem.”
Because they got my partner’s name while he was in hospital fighting for his life after chemo for Leukaemia, the Leukaemia and Blood Foundation put him on their ‘give us money’ mailing list. Because they refused to answer our inquiry about what research was being done in NZ on occupation and exposures and various types of leukaemia we biff their envelopes straight in the bin.
Ditto with breast, bowel and prostate cancer….
There are no $$$ in prevention.
So sorry to hear that Rosemary
Hi Rosemary,
I’m sorry to hear about your partner.
I’m not sure I fully understood your comment(s) so please bear with me.
My guess is that the Leukaemia and Blood Foundation simply doesn’t know what kind of research is being undertaken in NZ. There is no central comprehensive database of (all) medical research in NZ and there are also many different sources of funding of which charities are just (!) one. (NB there are, of course, centrally collected and analysed patient stats in NZ albeit collected through the various DHBs) For technical questions and the likes they often would (and should) have to consult experts and those are always overcommitted with patient time, etc.
NZ is a small nation and obviously relies heavily on research from overseas. I think that from a clinical point of view research is predominantly focussed on (curative) treatment (and palliative care) and treatment options and this immediate focus moves to early detection & diagnosis as the next priority. From a scientist’s point of view the focus appears to be more on understanding the mechanism of disease that could (ultimately) lead to better treatments. The effects of occupational exposure and its association with the development of cancer may be relegated to a level of lower priority and/or less interest; it may be more relevant to regulatory agencies such as OSH and ACC in NZ but to my knowledge these institutions don’t fund research. This is a little ironic as prevention is better than cure. This is not a NZ thing but a global observation and/or phenomenon.
The NZ Cancer Society puts a lot of emphasis (and money!) on prevention and reducing cancer risk and has been trying really hard to get the important messages out to the general public (incl. schools and EC centres). For example: https://auckland-northland.cancernz.org.nz/reducing-cancer-risk/
For quite a few cancers the main/major possible causes and risk factors are fairly well understood now. For example, obesity is associated with increased risk of a number of cancers (e.g. https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/obesity/obesity-fact-sheet#q3). Indeed, many cancers share common causes but some have quite specific ones. Unfortunately, it is much less clear what causes leukaemia. The story is actually very complex; you may have heard about the controversial study early last year that purportedly concluded that cancer is mainly down to ‘bad luck’ – here’s a good write-up about it: http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2017/03/24/reports-that-cancer-is-mainly-bad-luck-make-a-complicated-story-a-bit-too-simple/.
I hope this addressed your comment(s) and provided some useful info for you and/or others here on TS.
Greetings Incognito, and thanks for your response.
You might be familiar with this….
“Leukaemia and occupation: a New Zealand Cancer Registry-based case-control Study.”
McLean D , et al https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18953052
and this….https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18032530
“High risk occupations for non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma in New Zealand: case-control study.”
Mannetje A
and this…”Pesticides and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.”
Blair,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1394159
….and those are just a few garnered from Pubmed…
Much research from Europe…with Odds Ratios for some types of pesticides that make even a statistically challenged person such as myself sit up and think.
this nugget…. http://hazelarmstronglaw.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Occupational-causes-of-malignant-neoplasms-of-lymphatic-and-haematopoietic-tissue.pdf…. is really interesting since it was originally published by ACC. ACC’s new website has not heard of it…but luckily for us this lawyer had saved it.
Despite a poster in the haematology clinic listing pesticide exposure as a possible cause of some leukaemias we got zero interest from the medicos when we named the pesticide my partner had had extraordinary exposure to….a chemical which was designed to be a spindle toxin…interfering with rapidly dividing cells…including human lymphocytes at frighteningly low concentrations.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10633176
Evaluation of thresholds for benomyl- and carbendazim-induced aneuploidy in cultured human lymphocytes using fluorescence in situ hybridization.
Bentley KS
(Just one of many published papers on this pesticide…like this one dating back to 1977..https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2110979/pdf/jc721174.pdf
which clearly states…”Undoubtedly, these benzimidazole compounds
will become useful as experimental tools in the
study of microtubule structure and function in
cells. Their use, however, in agriculture as fungicides
and, quantitatively on a minor scale, in veterinary
medicine, should be reconsidered from the
point of view of their mechanism of action. Interference
of MBC with nuclear division in mammalian
cells has been found to occur in vitro (27, 59,
67) and in vivo (59, 67). This implies a potential
genetic risk for man. The toxicology and genetic
effects of benzimidazole compounds have recently
been reviewed by Seiler (59). We agree with him
that the use of pesticides with this type of action
should be restricted.”
And yet, we still, here in Godzone, allow this shit to be loaded into helicopters and sprayed with no controls or regulatory enforcement whatsoever.
And it may be of interest to look into other uses of carbendazim…(2-methyl benzimidazole carbamate)….like replacing formaldehyde for protecting goods from rotting in transit…(it can’t be detected…)
Ah, good times.
Hi Rosemary,
I’ll gladly help, if I can, but this is getting quite specific & technical for OM/TS. That said, OM might be a little like the news-cycle, i.e. short-lived and I think (hope!) it’ll be o.k. to use this space & forum for now; we can go offline if necessary.
I am/was not familiar with the stuff that you linked to and it would require a lot of time & effort to really get into this and review it properly. However, it appears to be a topic that is and has been on your mind so I’ll give it a shot anyway 😉 [it’s rather long; my apologies beforehand]
I noticed that a few papers that you linked to were quite old and science does move on, sometimes very fast. When looking at a paper in PubMed I often look at whether it has been cited in/by other PubMed Central articles (RH side of the screen). Another option to use is LinkOut – more resources beneath the Abstract on the PubMed screen.
The ACC Review (Issue 38) was published over 10 years ago and was “[A] distillation of best practice reflecting ACC’s current position” at the time. As such, it used some data that are now quite dated/out of date, e.g. the New Zealand incidence rates of leukaemia were from 2002 (ref. #6). More recent stats give slightly lower numbers and there has not been an increase in the rate of leukaemia or NHL over 10 years (2006-2015) (https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/new-cancer-registrations-2015-final.xlsx; published 14 Dec 2017). The wording in the ACC Review is careful and although associations between occupational exposures (to known risk factors) and haematological cancers have been observed “the results have been inconsistent”.
Any treating haematologist will be focussing, first and foremost, on diagnosis, treatment, and management of the disease and (much) less so on any possibly association with an occupational origin/cause.
Leukaemia and occupation: a New Zealand Cancer Registry-based case-control Study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18953052). This study was published in 2009. It reported associations between occupation/industry and adult leukaemia but did not show any association let alone a causative link with a specific occupational exposure.
High risk occupations for non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma in New Zealand: case-control study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18032530). A very similar paper as far as I can tell published a year earlier. Interestingly, one of the citing PubMed Central articles was a much more recent one:
Occupation and Risk of Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma and Its Subtypes: A Pooled Analysis from the InterLymph Consortium (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26340796); published in 2016. Again, the conclusions are cautious and tentative without pointing to an (occupational) exposure to a specific chemical:
Pesticides and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1394159). Published in 1992 this paper reviews other even older studies and again just showed that the rising incidence of NHL coincided with a rise in the use of pesticides, particularly of a certain class of herbicides prior to and during that time period. It appears to ignore that there usually is a (long) lag between exposure and the manifestation of cancer. Again, one of the citing articles is quite telling:
Investing in prospective cohorts for etiologic study of occupational exposures (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25603935); published in 2015.
From the Abstract:
Evaluation of thresholds for benomyl- and carbendazim-induced aneuploidy in cultured human lymphocytes using fluorescence in situ hybridization (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10633176); published in 2000. This study looked at cells in the laboratory and showed that these two related agricultural fungicides caused changes in the number of chromosomes in the white blood cells. However, it did not show that the compounds also caused haematological cancers. In fact, one of the citing articles is on a similar/related compound of the same class of benzimidazoles that showed that its active metabolite also caused changes in the number and structure of chromosomes in cells in the lab as well as in treated animals. The last sentence of the Abstract is quite telling:
Genotoxicity of flubendazole and its metabolites in vitro and the impact of a new formulation on in vivo aneugenicity (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26443851); published in 2016.
I’d better leave it at this to avoid raising the ire of the TS powers that be 😉
For further technical questions and assistance you could try and contact Associate Professor Andrea ‘t Mannetje, for example; her contact details are available online.
Incognito…firstly, I’m sorry if I gave the impression that I am seeking help of any sort…I’m not.
With all due respect, Incognito, you could be anyone….an academic, an analytical chemist, a politician or a plant protection product peddler….
And while you seem to be keen to reassure me that there is no solid scientific proof of chemical ‘A’ being linked to disease ‘B’ and this is why (presumably) these chemicals are still in widespread use and I shouldn’t be too concerned….I recall medical professionals (but not actual doctors) sidling up to me and whispering that they simply knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that some agrichemicals cause some leukaemias. Even the densest nurse (the one who just did her job and asked no questions and never went beyond the boundaries of her limited training) surprised me one day by telling me how much she’d learned about farming and horticulture just chatting to her chemo patients.
You quote from the abstract for the Bentley paper….did you read the entire paper? Very interesting…and even more so because this research was funded by du Pont..who held the patent for benomyl and carbendazim. I say held…not now, its anyone’s…and since then most developed nations have effectively banned the widespread use of both benomyl and carbendazim… but not here, ’cause we’re special.
And I notice you didn’t mention the truly ancient paper from 1977 I linked to.
That wee gem…https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2110979/pdf/jc721174.pdf I found in the references for a Ministry of Health Food Safety paper justifying the MRL for carbendazim (2-methyl benzimidazole carbamate MBC) being set at 10 times higher than in Europe.
Rips my undies that I can’t link to it…but the writer of the paper had also zoomed in on a few supporting words in the abstract and introduction…and clearly failed to read through to the “Interference
of MBC with nuclear division in mammalian cells has been found to occur in vitro (27, 59,67) and in vivo (59, 67). This implies a potential
genetic risk for man. The toxicology and genetic effects of benzimidazole compounds have recently been reviewed by Seiler (59). We agree with him that the use of pesticides with this type of action should be restricted.” bit.
So…on we go, same as always, spraying nasty chemicals with gay abandon and implying that those with concerns about the potential adverse effects on humans and other organisms are uneducated tinfoilhatwearers.
Here in Godzone it is considered perfectly acceptable for one person to contaminate another person’s land, food crops, water supply and family with a hazardous substance.
Because Science says it’s OK.
Phew! I’ll sleep well tonight.
Thanks, Incognito.
Hi Rosemary,
First of all I’d like to apologise for the misunderstanding and for possibly coming across as patronising. It was my genuine intention to help.
Indeed, I could be anyone and my pen name here on TS is deliberate so that people can only judge me on my writings and nothing more and nothing else.
Now I have put a bit of time into reading the material and thinking about it I’d like to share my views, also on the off chance that others stumble on this thread. My views are a little divergent from yours 😉
You have probably heard the platitude that science is never settled and this is certainly true for medical science. I personally cringe when I hear somebody stating something with absolute certainty, particularly in the context of science, and most definitely in the context of cancer. In a similar vein, science cannot and must not ‘say it’s o.k.’; it creates and tests knowledge and establishes its boundaries, presents data & information, and simulates & predicts real and/or virtual situations and/or scenarios with associated probabilities (statistics; boundaries). As with all human endeavours, science is not perfect or flawless; in the ideal case at a given time, it’s our best attempt at understanding & explaining stuff – it is fallible though.
Yes, I did read the Bentley paper. I could point out the limitations of this paper for the extrapolation to living organisms from living cells in culture in the lab. The point is that the two mitotic spindle inhibitors (i.e. benomyl and its active metabolite carbendazim) don’t directly interact with DNA but bind to a protein called tubulin (NB very effective anti-cancer drugs are tubulin binders/inhibitors, e.g. Taxol/Paclitaxel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paclitaxel). As indeed expected, this causes changes in number and structure of chromosomes when cells divide (NB white blood cells don’t divide (in blood); it’s the stem cells in the bone marrow that undergo cell division that ultimately produce the (fully differentiated) blood cells). However, this doesn’t necessarily mean that these compounds also cause cancer and due to the lack of any strong supporting evidence they are classified as possible carcinogens. The authors concluded:
I did not mention the paper from 1977 because it’s indeed “truly ancient” and because my comment was already getting very long (same again this time …). Based on their knowledge & understanding at the time (in 1976) they stated an (informed) opinion but not a fact!
I believe the following links to that Ministry of Health Food Safety paper that caused you to shred your undies: http://www.moh.govt.nz/notebook/nbbooks.nsf/0/A5111CB953FDC9D9CC256C45000F5AE4/$file/Benomyl%20residues%202000.pdf.
Since you mentioned “water supply” you may also be interested in the following document (1309 pages!), which is one of the Datasheets for the Guidelines for Drinking-water Quality Management for New Zealand: https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/datasheet_2.3_pesticides_sept_2017.doc. It contains shed loads of data on carbendazim, e.g. “[A]ll benomyl registrations were voluntarily cancelled by registrants, effective in January 2002.” and “[S]ince 2014 benomyl is no longer able to be manufactured in or imported into NZ.” (pg. 106 bottom).
Should you be concerned? Yes. Should you lose sleep? No, not in my opinion.
“It contains shed loads of data on carbendazim, e.g. “[A]ll benomyl registrations were voluntarily cancelled by registrants, effective in January 2002.” and “[S]ince 2014 benomyl is no longer able to be manufactured in or imported into NZ.” (pg. 106 bottom).”
Methinks you are being just a tad deceitful there Incognito…while Benomyl was used in some older formulations, benomyl rapidly degrades to release carbendazim.
Carbendazim is the active ingredient, it is a known mutagen and is most damaging to rapidly dividing cells thus harmful to growing fungi (until they develop resistance), cancer cells, (has been seriously considered, but collateral damage would be expected), sperm production in mammals, immune system function in mammals and birds(even at low concentrations) and foetal growth.
Back to your cherry picked quote…carbendazim is the active ingredient in a number of agrichemical products still manufactured and sold in New Zealand.
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/aa3cc7_f2d7c87a833c47fdba82115fab92ede5.pdf
http://agpro.co.nz/downloads/msds-agpro-carbendazim-pv65d.pdf
https://www.ravensdown.co.nz/media/3463/sporeguard-sds.pdf
https://resistance.nzpps.org/strategies/crops/summerfruit_diseases.pdf
Also interesting to compare NZ MRLs for carbendazim to those of the European Union.
https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/19550-maximum-residue-levels-for-agricultural-compounds
http://ec.europa.eu/food/plant/pesticides/eu-pesticides-database/public/?event=pesticide.residue.CurrentMRL&language=EN
Anyone other than Incognito who is bored enough to be following this conversation should really check out those Maximum Residue Limits….some of ours are set at ten times higher than the EU.
Its been a heap of fun Incognito…
Hi Rosemary,
One major and quite possibly the main reason why benomyl usage stopped, worldwide, was the fact that the target organisms (i.e. fungi) rapidly developed resistance to it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benomyl).
I thought it was interesting to read that NZ had also stopped benomyl usage as such and thought you’d be interested too; I don’t think this amounts to being “being just a tad deceitful” 🙁
I’m aware that carbendazim is the active metabolite of benomyl. In fact, I mentioned it twice in my comments above. Also, on pg. 613 (https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/datasheet_2.3_pesticides_sept_2017.doc):
I agree that carbendazim has many biological effects but it does not act directly on DNA and there is currently not enough evidence for a causative link to the development of cancer in humans, which is the reason why it (still) is classified as a possible human carcinogen. In addition, because its primary action is through interfering with tubulin, there is a safe dose below which no biological effects are (can be) observed, the so-called threshold (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dose%E2%80%93response_relationship). This is different from ionizing radiation, for example, which has a direct damaging effect on DNA and therefore has no safe dose or threshold (although this is a controversial topic, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis).
I did not “cherry pick[ed] [a] quote” and actually cited & quoted (with links!) a number of quite long and complicated technical documents; they all are freely accessible via the internet for your or anybody’s perusal. I started to engage with this material (and you!) only a few days ago and I have no personal interest in this other than a (intellectual) curiosity (and a somewhat misguided wish to ‘help’).
You mentioned before (@ 10 January 2018 at 12:01 am) “a Ministry of Health Food Safety paper justifying the MRL for carbendazim (2-methyl benzimidazole carbamate MBC) being set at 10 times higher than in Europe” and I provided a link; was that the paper you were referring to? If so, could you please point to the “justifying” section? I note that many of European MRLs are set at the detection limit of ca. 0.1 mg/kg.
100 grams of black beans vs 100 grams of beef
Black Beans win on all three rounds
Round 1 Price
Round 2 Nutrition
‘Black Beans
130 Calories
21g Protein
0g Total Fat
0g Saturated Fat
0mg Cholesterol
8g Fibre
2.9mg Iron
Ground Beef
270 Calories
26g Protean
18g Total Fat
7g Saturated Fat
80mg Cholesterol
0g Fibre
2.3mg Iron
Round 3 Sustainability
Water Used per Gram of Protein
Black Bean: 5.0 Gallons
Beef: 29.6 Gallons
Greenhouse Gas Emissions in CO2 per kg produced
Black Bean: 0.56kg
Beef: 15kg
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/2e28c8_0cef004ae4df46dca90dea89386ab27c.jpg/v1/fill/w_649,h_433,al_c,lg_1,q_80/2e28c8_0cef004ae4df46dca90dea89386ab27c.jpg
http://www.veggielad.com/features/black-beans-vs-beef-clash-of-the-titans-guest-post/
yeah nah. NZ local beef vs black beans imported from China, I bet the figures for both climate and water are different when measured properly.
Fair point.
That was a UK article I discovered.
Don’t take it too hard.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
Friedrich Schiller.
Thanks for the generosity of your comment
I operate under the assumption that I am stupid and ignorant and so is everyone else.
A wise approach
‘Wisdom is not truth’
Suzie Creamcheese.
I operate under the same assumption.
Round 4 – taste. Subjective I know – but I guess most Kiwis would prefer a beautiful steak than a cup of black beans however served.
That’s why we sell tons of beef and import not many black beans.
I don’t think so. Both can be cooked well or badly. The reason we eat steak and not black beans is cultural and historical.
We do eat shedloads of haricot beans. Usually from a can and in tomato(ish) sauce.
But really, they complement each other – I actually had beef stir fry with a five bean mix a few days ago. I’m at one extreme – had a dietician who managed to get me out of the habit of eating a roast, just the roast, nothing else, on a plate – but if I’d replaced the beef with just another bean, it would have been quite unnice.
Same here, lots of canned beans but I haven’t looked back since I cottoned on to Geeta’s, a great, high turnover supplier of dried beans/dahls and all things deliciously aromatic.
Fish and Game have commissioned an opinion poll about the issues New Zealand are most concerned about.
Some of the results
On a positive note
75 percent of which said they were extremely or very concerned about the pollution of waterways.
Also
77 % of those surveyed said they were extremely or very concerned about the cost of living
Worryingly /depressingly
39 % of those surveyed are not concerned about climate change.
32 % of those surveyed are not concerned about child poverty.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/347617/water-pollution-rising-concern-for-nzers-poll
https://fishandgame.org.nz/assets/Uploads/Embargoed-1800-7-January-2018-Opinion-Poll-Results-Water-Pollution-key-concern-for-NZers.pdf
A crash is coming this year.
This article touches on it.
Simple statistics and probability tell us that.
‘But a downward turn lies somewhere ahead, be it a recession, slump or, God forbid, crash. A necessary part of the energy of economic cycles comes from the ebbing of each wave.
History suggests that the next recession is not far off.
The current expansion, though relatively weak, has been steady since June 2009, making this the third-longest upward climb on record.’
And then there are all the economic and political factors that will trigger a collapse. Of the crises proffered below, I think Chiina’s Debt bubble will be straw that breaks the camel’s back.
And if it is that, NZ will be hit hard.
A dairy industry laden with debt will buckle.
‘. It’s not hard to imagine shocks that could trigger a drop.
Democrats could win control of the House and ignite an impeachment crisis.
Mueller’s investigation could take an unsettling turn.
The Federal Reserve could raise interest rates faster than the economy can digest them.
Or the opposite: The Fed could move too slowly and smoldering inflation could catch fire.
China’s debt bubble could burst.
North Korea could erupt.
Or the very real threat, dreaded by Trump’s own economic advisers: The president could deliver on his trade war threats.’
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11971082
If a recession is coming to the States, it’s likely to be driven primarily by the Republican Party slashing public spending.
That said, I have as much expertise on these matters as Drehle, which is to say none at all.