Open mike 07/04/2022

125 comments on “Open mike 07/04/2022 ”

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1. Jenny how to get there 1

   7 April 2022 at 6:56 am

   Bucha killings.

   Fool me once…..

   Hard path to justice in Bucha atrocities

   Russia’s Defense Ministry said Sunday that “not a single civilian has faced any violent action by the Russian military,”

   https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/war-crimes-watch-hard-path-justice-bucha-atrocities-83866892

   Russian missiles slamming into apartment buildings in Mariupol say otherwise,

   Hyperbole? Lying? Take your pick.

   The first thing to determine about the Bucha massacre; Did the Bucha killings actually take place and in the manner described?

   Or was this massacre faked, or 'staged'? – as the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has publicly alleged.

   With all the claims and counter claims swirling around, I am reminded of the Douma gas attack in Syria, or even further back, the Katyn massacre of captured Polish officers during WWII. To this day the Russians claim the German's did it. The Germans (and the Poles) claim the Russians did it.

   What is uncontested about the Katyn Forest, is that a massacre took place there, The captured Polish officers were massacred by someone.

   What is contested about the Bucha massacre, is that it ever took place at all.

   ….Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has described the scenes outside Kyiv as a “stage-managed anti-Russian provocation.”

   https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/war-crimes-watch-hard-path-justice-bucha-atrocities-83866892

   If it is determined that the Bucha Massacre was not 'staged' or faked, as the Russian Foreign Minister has alleged. That in fact, this massacre of civilians did occure: Then the next question to determine; who committed it?".

   At this far remove at the other end of the world, the weight of evidence presented to us, is that the massacre of civilians in Bucha was committed by the Russian forces during their occupation of the town.

   ….The Kremlin has categorically rejected accusations that Russian forces were responsible for killing civilians in Bucha, suggesting images of corpses lining the streets were “fakes”.

   ….Russian “experts at the Ministry of Defence have identified signs of video fakes and various fakes”

   Russia denies military forces killed Bucha civilians in Ukraine

   Al Jazeera – 4 April, 2022
   • Francesca 1.1

     7 April 2022 at 9:02 am

     Jenny if you are going to use past form(of denial) to predict current culpabilities you may have to widen your range(in the interests of fairness)

     Between 1943 and 1945, members of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army massacred thousands of Poles throughout Volhynia, a region that was in Nazi-occupied Poland and is part of present-day Ukraine. Polish historians say the death toll could be as high as 100,000, while Ukrainians say it’s between 20,000 to 30,000. In 2016, Poland’s Parliament recognized the killings as genocide, a term that Ukraine rejects.

     https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/lens/poland-ukraine-volhynia-massacre.

     Ukraine to this day is denying the full scale of its actions
     • Barfly 1.1.1

       7 April 2022 at 9:41 am

       I see your massacre and raise you a Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

       Millions Murdered
     • Jenny how to get there 1.1.2

       7 April 2022 at 11:42 am

       When it comes to denial, the apologists for Russian and imperialism and Assad fascism need to look at themselves.

       Amid the fog of war and the competing narratives over the atrocity committed in Bucha. I know one thing for sure;

       Apologists for Russian aggression and Assad fascism like yourself, will argue endlessly over the reality, or not, of one single act of atrocity. Just as you did over the gas attack on Douma in Syria.

       But one thing you won't do Francesca, is address the undeniable evidence of the genocidal nature of the war itself.

       As the dead lie beneath the rubble of Borodyanka, the gruesome toll could be worse than Bucha
       • Francesca 1.1.2.1

         7 April 2022 at 3:24 pm

         I recognise the genocidal nature and cruelty of all wars, and I recognise and call out the propaganda that attempts to make us believe that our "enemies"are monsters but we are kind and just.
   • mikesh 1.2

     7 April 2022 at 9:11 am

     Yes. Things would get interesting if the dead turned out to be known Russian sympathisers.
   • weston 1.3

     7 April 2022 at 10:38 am

     You state " To this day " the russians claim the germans killed the poles etc not quite true considering in 1990 Yeltsin released the execution orders signed by stalin to the new polish president Lech walesa .

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre#Post-communist_investigations
     • Jenny how to get there 1.3.1

       7 April 2022 at 12:30 pm

       weston

       7 April 2022 at 10:38 am

       You state " To this day " the russians claim the germans killed the poles….

       Yes and I stand by my statement.

       Since Yeltsin's day, under Putin's rule, the admission by Russia of Russian culpability for the Katyn Massacre is being rolled back.

       Russia removes memorial to Katyn Massacre in new attack on historical truth

       08.05.2020

       Halya Coynash

       ……Russian officials, acting on an order from the prosecutor's office, have removed plaques commemorating victims of the Terror and Polish officers executed by the NKVD in 1940, while the Soviet Union was still collaborating with Nazi Germany. This may have been a regional initiative, but it is very much in line with Russia’s aggressive attempts under President Vladimir Putin to blur or rewrite the darkest pages of Soviet history.

       Two memorial plaques, erected in 1991, were removed from the former NKVD building in Tver on 7 May….

       https://khpg.org/en/1588896084

       After 80 Years, The ‘Katyn Lie’ Lives On In Russia

       https://www.rferl.org/a/after-80-years-the-katyn-lie-lives-on-in-russia/30470317.html
       • weston 1.3.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 4:24 pm

         Glad you amended your original statement jenny i think its as well to remember that the soviet bear has been known to recover its memory from time to time .The world is bleak and depressing enough without painting it black cover to cover .
2. tsmithfield 2

   7 April 2022 at 7:32 am

   I don't think there is any doubt that the Russians committed the atrocities. As I pointed out yesterday, satellite images at the time of Russian occupation have been geolocated to where bodies have been found.

   If anything, this type of event is actually working against the Russians because it is motivating other countries to get in behind Ukraine.

   For example, here is a great interview with Roberta Metsola, president of the European Union. She has just met with Zelenskyy. Well worth spending the 7 minutes to watch it.

   According to her, the Ukranians are fighting on behalf of Europe, and she wants to make sure that Russia is never again able to attack European countries.

   On a side note, she seems to be an outstanding politician, of a calibre far higher than anyone we have in New Zealand.

   Also, after having taken an interest (or obsession) in this conflict, I have been very impressed with the quality of news and investigative journalism on the likes of DW and France 24. Makes our stuff seem very fluffy and weak. Having said that, they are able to have channels that are just full time news, unlike us here.
   • Adrian Thornton 2.1

     7 April 2022 at 8:06 am

     While we we wait for actual proof of culpability to this horrific event from actual professionals in this field, (trial by a biased media is proof of nothing)…don't you find it somewhat incongruous that no MSM have covered this horrific event (please be aware that the video is extremely disturbing, viewer discretion is advised) at all..why is that you think?

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaFU7VMj1jA
     • The Al1en 2.1.1

       7 April 2022 at 8:23 am

       Satellite image of bodies site contradicts Russian claims

       A satellite image of Bucha in Ukraine appears to show bodies lying in the street nearly two weeks before the Russians left the town.

       The image from 19 March, first reported by the New York Times and confirmed by the BBC, directly contradicts Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov's claim that footage of bodies in Bucha, that has emerged in recent days, was "staged" after the Russians withdrew.

       The satellite image shows objects that appear to be bodies in the exact locations where they were subsequently found by Ukrainian forces when they regained control of the town north of Kyiv.
       • Adrian Thornton 2.1.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 9:37 am

         I am not going to get into armchair speculation on this matter….you and others on this site would do well to remember this old adage "The first casualty of war is the truth"…as I keep trying to remind people, all western MSM have declared war on Russia, they have picked a side, that is just a plain fact,,,therefore they have negated their positions as impartial news outlets…..so everything they report has to be regarded, by anyone who is actually concerned with the truth… as suspect, am I wrong?
         • RedLogix 2.1.1.1.1

           7 April 2022 at 9:45 am

           The exact same logic applies to the Russians. The same people who six weeks ago were solemnly assuring the world there would be no invasion of Ukraine.

           Yet here we are. In politics you can debate facts, ideas and nuance all you want. In war you pick a side and fight for it – or get crushed.

           You have clearly picked the side of boundless cruelty.
           • Adrian Thornton 2.1.1.1.1.1

             7 April 2022 at 10:07 am

             No RedLogix, unlike you I haven't picked a side….if I were in the Ukraine (but not a Russian speaking Ukrainian in the Donbass) I would be fighting the Russian today you can be sure of that….however I am not in the position, so I (and you) have the luxury of being able to appraise the conflict from a much wider perspective.

             I believe that it is exactly because we are in this privileged position to observe and appraise the conflict from this distance, that it is essential for us to remain neutral, try and negotiate our way through the fog of war, and remain steadfast in our efforts to seek out only the facts and truth…that’s all I am trying to do here.The only reason why it sometimes look like I am pro Russia is because I am pushing back against the obvious propaganda that our media spews out daily…but you can be sure that if I were in Russia, I would be doing exactly same vigorous critiquing of their propaganda on some Russian version of TS.

             I know that remaining neutral is impossible for you, that is your choice and I respect that, but please respect my position of neutrality.
             • Beverly …

               7 April 2022 at 12:56 pm

               
             • SPC …

               7 April 2022 at 1:03 pm

               Sort of why I wanted this sorted out via diplomacy.

               But I am not capable of neutrality after one side starts a war – multi-lateral collective security of nations.

               That Russia has nukes and a UNSC veto is the only reason there is not a plan for foreign troops to occupy the Kremlin and remove Putin by force.
         • The Al1en 2.1.1.1.2

           7 April 2022 at 9:59 am

           Just adding more info to balance the page for readers.

           I think “Whatever the source, address the content” is a good call.
           • Adrian Thornton 2.1.1.1.2.1

             7 April 2022 at 10:19 am

             “Whatever the source, address the content” …I would agree in normal times, however as western MSM have willfully become a propaganda arm of the Ukrainian govt, exactly where does one even start to address the content, when that is the starting point? ….That is the problem, a very serious problem, don't you agree?

             Think about it, we have now ended up with not one western MSM source that we can rely on for news of Ukraine, doesn't that bother you?…this is exactly why I so often bang on about 'Fair and Balanced Reporting' in our media as a primary problem in our search for the truth.
             • The Al1en …

               7 April 2022 at 10:30 am

               You've already decided the western media are propaganda tools so clearly the link wasn't for you.

               Maybe leave it to those inclined to seek another perspective and concentrate on the juxtaposition of that rapid decision with the one that wants to wait and see about russian war crimes in Bucha.
               • Adrian Thornton …

                 7 April 2022 at 10:43 am

                 So we can assume by your none answers to my questions, that you find MSM content on Ukraine to be, on the whole, fair and balanced then?

                 “those inclined to seek another perspective”…you see that is the problem…that ‘perspective’ you mention is the main one most people are exposed to…so if it extremely biased as I maintain…then that is a problem..no?
                 • The Al1en …

                   7 April 2022 at 11:21 am

                   I'm self moderating so need need to wait for a discussion around what you, or I, think constitute balance.

                   So, as I'm not arguing with you or attempting to change your mind about anything, the best case outcome is people head off down their own rabbit holes and sift the truth out for themselves, with an eye to probability and credibility.
                   • Incognito …

                     7 April 2022 at 11:32 am

                     The truth is out there.
             • Tricledrown …

               7 April 2022 at 11:37 am

               Adrian we know you have sympathies for Russia.

               But complete destruction of suburbs bodies of civilians bound tortured and shot.

               This is Putin our modern day megalomaniac.

               Not Russia but a megalomaniac dictator.

               You can ignore all the photos,videos etc.

               But ever since Zelensky was elected by an overwhelming majority Putin has had it in for him.

               Zelensky was a comedian fed up with corruption turned politician as a joke.
               • Francesca …

                 7 April 2022 at 12:40 pm

                 Tricledown , did you miss the fact that prior to the invasion Zelensky's pollings were trailing in the 20s and as far as his efforts against corruption go, he's sponsored by the most corrupt oligarch Kolomoisky, and he himself was shown up hiding wealth offshore .

                 https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
         • SPC 2.1.1.1.3

           7 April 2022 at 10:16 am

           Truth in language alert, only one party has declared war – Russia, and in invading Ukraine it has in a sense done so against the international regime – the collective security of nations. Because it has nukes and a veto on the UNSC .. it thinks it it can do what it likes.

           The idea that the western MSM, not any other MSM such as in China or Russia, cannot be relied on for truth is a definition of partisanship – not truth seeking.

           And of course the central "fact" of the sovereign citizen movement and every other social media rabbit warren cult on earth is that it alone has the truth. That form of the force is with us is a secular variant of end of the world uber Zionism and related Christian and Moslem theocracy.
           • Adrian Thornton 2.1.1.1.3.1

             7 April 2022 at 10:26 am

             "The idea that the western MSM, not any other MSM such as in China or Russia, cannot be relied on for truth is a definition of partisanship – not truth seeking"…When exactly did I say or imply that?

             I am happy use any western MSM and any other MSM sources when I believe they a useful.

             BTW, The last part of your comment didn't make any sense…what were trying to say there?
             • SPC …

               7 April 2022 at 10:31 am

               When exactly did I say or imply that?

               In every comment about western media in 2 above.

               What I said, I was not trying, was that many claim to the truth is with them and them alone. A definition of a cult.
               • Adrian Thornton …

                 7 April 2022 at 10:57 am

                 " that many claim to the truth is with them and them alone. A definition of a cult"….that sounds a lot like western MSM….link me to one serious debate or discussion on western MSM from someone serious, pushing back against the 'Russiagate' conspiracy during the Trump era.

                 Note that western MSM only maintained one truth on that issue…I think you find the same 'single truth' narrative around the Douma gas attack incident…I could go on but you get the idea I am sure.

                 So if I apply your definition, Western MSM is a cult of some sort.
                 • SPC …

                   7 April 2022 at 12:11 pm

                   So you define cult as what you are against, rather than note the common characteristics of them …
   • mikesh 2.2

     7 April 2022 at 9:19 am

     According to her, the Ukranians are fighting on behalf of Europe, and she wants to make sure that Russia is never again able to attack European countries.

     It is much more likely the Ukranians are fighting on behalf of the US. After all, what were McCain, Biden and Nuland doing in Kyev around 2013 or 2014?

     Why would Russia, these days, wish to attack European countries anyway?
     • McFlock 2.2.1

       7 April 2022 at 3:23 pm

       Why would Russia, these days, wish to attack European countries anyway?

       Funny question, given it's doing exactly that.

       But assuming a good faith question, one particular stand-out feature of the vagaries of post-Soviet geography is Kaliningrad. Can you think of any reason some Baltic states lying between Kaliningrad and the rest of Russia might be shitting themselves at the moment, given the current Russian expansionist imperialism? What about Moldova and Transnistria?

       And then there are the innumerable opportunities for border expansion, a little piece here or there…
       • mikesh 2.2.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 11:17 pm

         Ukraine is not really part of Europe, though some of its citizens apparently would like it to be. This whole sorry mess grew out of the events in 2014 when Yanukovich, who was at the time the Ukrainian president, failed in his attempt to join Europe. Putin seems to have seen this attempt, after Yanukovich's ousting, together with a desire to join NATO, as an existential threat to Russia. Hence the invasion.

         The invasion seems to have been a defensive move on Putin’s part. He ain’t no Napoleon Bonaparte.
         • McFlock 2.2.1.1.1

           7 April 2022 at 11:56 pm

           Ukraine is not really part of Europe

           Despite the blatant stupidity of that comment, it is however the only thing that bears any relevance to my response to your question as to why some definitely European countries (in addition to the country in eastern Europe called Ukraine) might be worried that the authoritarian kleptocracy controlling Russia might wish to invade their territory, too.

           Russia, of course, famously spans two continents. But Ukraine is firmly in Europe, well west of the Urals.
   • Bearded Git 2.3

     7 April 2022 at 10:50 am

     Maybe you should read Chris Trotter's latest article tsmithfield.

     https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2022/04/forgetting-to-remember-news-coverage-of.html

     What worries me is that RadioNZ seems to be cravenly followed the "plucky little Ukraine" line without questioning whether there is a factual basis for the reports coming out of the war. The NZ public deserve better.
     • tsmithfield 2.3.1

       7 April 2022 at 11:29 am

       Yes, fair points made in that article. That is why I think it is wise to seek sources that don't have a dog in the fight. Though, that is hard to find.
     • Peter 2.3.2

       7 April 2022 at 4:02 pm

       After reading all the stuff on here about the media bias, for one side or the other, maybe RadioNZ should not report anything about what is going on except to say "there is conflict in Ukraine." (Maybe there will be some who say even that is propaganda.)

       If they carry a story about a number of deaths I suppose the information has come from someone. Who is to say the information is true? If they carry a story about anything to do with not all the information has come from someone. Who is to say the information is true?
       • Bearded Git 2.3.2.1

         8 April 2022 at 10:33 am

         Trotter gets it right on Ukraine again here.

         https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2022/04/bloody-anniversaries.html
3. Jester 3

   7 April 2022 at 7:54 am

   I wonder where these lovely tenants will end up living now? I doubt the landlord will ever see any of the $10k owed. There should be a register of bad tenants and a bad landlords so people can avoid either renting to them or becoming their tenant.

   Christchurch tenants ordered to pay landlord $10,000 after damage, meth use, robbery, abandonment – NZ Herald
   • Jimmy 3.1

     7 April 2022 at 8:53 am

     They will probably end up being State housing tenants for life as no other landlord in their right mind would let them rent their house, and unfortunately you and me will end up paying for them.
   • Adrian Thornton 3.2

     7 April 2022 at 9:46 am

     Great, more poverty porn from the Herald…yuk.

     "There should be a register of bad tenants and a bad landlords so people can avoid either renting to them or becoming their tenant"

     Have you, or do you know anyone who has trying getting into a rental lately?….they have to jump through every hoop that the landlord can possibly make up…and then some more for good measure…but what single reference does the landlord have to provide to that hopeful tenant?
     • Jimmy 3.2.1

       7 April 2022 at 1:27 pm

       And because of tenants like these, that is exactly why there are so many hoops to jump through. Their "CV" would not make good reading and I wouldn't wish them on any landlord. The landlord is the one with a property at risk. The tenant risks nothing.

       But I still believe there should also be a register of the bad landlords.
       • Descendant Of Smith 3.2.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 3:57 pm

         Nonsense. Hoops have existed for years – many of my Maori staff twenty years ago struggled to get rentals. It was called racism.

         That they have increased (hoops that is) is not due to bad tenants – it's due to the bull-dozing of state houses, the massive increase in immigration without a building program to go with it, the massive subsidisation of landlords through accommodation supplement and tax breaks, reduced taxation of the wealthy freeing up capital, the realisation after the Canterbury Earthquakes by landlords they could get away with charging a fortune, the lack of rent controls, bloody-mindedness by some landlords like the one who told me he put all his rents up to piss off Jacinda, the loss of other government housing.

         In short a deliberate and concerted effort to create a supply and demand shortage by capitalists. Bad tenants are the very least cause in the whole back to slum-lords and homelessness mess.
4. Francesca 4

   7 April 2022 at 8:02 am

   About those satellite images:

   https://southfront.org/more-evidence-more-doubts-about-bucha-massacre/

   From the NY Times article:
   “The images show dark objects of similar size to a human body appearing on Yablonska Street between March 9 and March 11″
   yet:
   ” However, according to the Institute of War report, the Russians did not control the south of the city from March 9 to 11. Attention should also be drawn to the statement of the General Staff of Ukraine on Facebook on March 10, which reads «the enemy is trying to break through the defenses of Ukraine’s defenders in the areas of Poliske, Kukhari, Zhovtneve, Andriyivka, Kopyliv, Motyzhyn, Buzova, Horenychi, Bucha, Demydiv, and block Kyiv». Next, the Institute of War, in its Facebook post of March 11, states that all attempts by the Russian army to take Bucha have failed.”
   https://southfront.org/more-evidence-more-doubts-about-bucha-massacre/
   • higherstandard 4.1

     7 April 2022 at 8:34 am

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SouthFront

     'In 2016, Finnish journalist Jessikka Aro writing in Springer Link described SouthFront as "an allegedly citizen-sourced project that looks more like a suspicious information operation." Describing it as "a fascinating hybrid of revealingly detailed military intelligence and totally bogus stories," she said that the site's content centers on "the success of Russia's armed forces, and showing off Russia's weapons." '
     • Francesca 4.1.1

       7 April 2022 at 9:04 am

       Whatever the source, address the content
       Article references the NYTimes article, Facebook entries of Ukrainian military and other verifiable sources.
       It’s not an opinion piece
       .If you dispute the validity of the references, offer counters to them or prove them to be false
       • McFlock 4.1.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 3:58 pm

         Them thar facebook accounts prompted an FB phishing warning. Went as far as I could without logging in.

         But despite that, nothing in your links actually contradicts the possibility that the people were killed in areas controlled by the Russians, or even the progress of events depicted in wikipedia (with considerable more precision than "in the area of [half a dozen major suburbs]").

         What you, specifically, are saying is not what the sources for your article state.
5. Adrian Thornton 5

   7 April 2022 at 8:16 am

   Why am I not surprised…..

   Zhao Lijian: "….. in a contrasting move to its (the USA) pressuring of European countries to not buy Russian oil, the US increased crude oil supplies from Russia by 43 percent, or 100,000 barrels per day, over the past week and allowed its companies to import mineral fertilizers from Russia. The ongoing war and sanctions have incurred an influx of refugees, capital outflow and energy shortage in Europe, but enabled the US to have profited and made a fortune from that"

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxgFX-J0ZQ4
   • higherstandard 5.1

     7 April 2022 at 8:38 am

     Will be interesting if these claims pan out.

     https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/PET_MOVE_IMPCUS_D_NUS_NRS_MBBL_M.htm
   • Ad 5.2

     7 April 2022 at 10:30 am

     The US gets about 1 – 3% of its total crude oil from Russia. They get about 60-61% of oil from Canada.

     The US public will not stand for gas prices even higher than they are (Witness how fast our own government folded after just 2 weeks).

     Oil markets are now so roiled that even a partial oil sanction has driven India into the hands of Russia for perpetual oil supply. You can only mess with energy security so far.
     • Adrian Thornton 5.2.1

       7 April 2022 at 10:40 am

       So have they increased their oil imports from Russia by 43% or not…I guess that is the question, regardless of what overall percentage it is?
       • Ad 5.2.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 11:14 am

         The sanctions such as they are, are altering Russian export flows. But the trades are going to get very shadowy.

         Price-sensitive refiners in India are buying Urals crude at a discount to Brent crude prices of $25 per barrel or more.

         In China, both independent refiners and state oil companies are buying ESPO blend and Urals volumes.

         Russian off-the-radar transactions will grow and they make it hard to calculate the current market disruption with great precision: the revenue loss for Russia isn't going to be as big as hoped.

         The US is generating enough pressure to be noticeable, but not so much that Russian accelerates a full geopolitical re-alignment of India into the Russia-China-Iran-Kazakhstan-Donbas oil power that is emerging.

         This world does not need energy markets more destabilised than they are. So the US has smaller oil levers to operate than would be obvious.

         Equally, it's very clear that only the US and Europe are really standing up to Russia at all – in energy or anything else.
         • Francesca 5.2.1.1.1

           7 April 2022 at 11:38 am

           Oh come on Ad

           Putin and Lavrov can forget their holidays in Rotorua, and making supplies of potassium more expensive for NZ agriculturalists is really going to stick it to the Muscovites
           • Ad 5.2.1.1.1.1

             7 April 2022 at 12:11 pm

             Pretty simple Francesca:

             United we stand, divided was fall.
             • Francesca …

               7 April 2022 at 12:42 pm

               Nothing to stop us falling united in a great economic collapse either.
               • Ad …

                 7 April 2022 at 1:18 pm

                 Two comments above you were saying nothing would make a difference.

                 What makes a difference in this world is courage and planning. That's what unity feels like.
                 • Francesca …

                   7 April 2022 at 3:30 pm

                   ??

                   Can't recall saying nothing would make a difference
               • SPC …

                 7 April 2022 at 1:35 pm

                 The purpose of Russian propaganda to twofold

                 1. to demonise Ukrainians as unworthy of life and self-determination

                 2. to convince us that the cost of upholding international norms – collective security of nations comes at too high a cost.
                 • Francesca …

                   7 April 2022 at 3:31 pm

                   What's the purpose of western propaganda?
6. Ad 6

   7 April 2022 at 8:35 am

   With the Tauranga by-election on May 19th, Climate Change plan coming out a week after that, and the Tauranga by-election on June 18th, government and National get the closest thing possible to a live straw poll.

   What can Labour do now to turn their fortunes around?
   • Bearded Git 6.1

     7 April 2022 at 8:37 am

     'Post makes no sense Ad
     • Incognito 6.1.1

       7 April 2022 at 8:51 am

       Budget 2022 will be delivered on 19 May.
     • Ad 6.1.2

       7 April 2022 at 10:13 am

       Budget policies will feed into the Tauranga election.
       • Poission 6.1.2.1

         7 April 2022 at 3:52 pm

         Two RBNZ mps statements before the election,lets not forget who really makes economic policy in the real world.
   • Barfly 6.2

     7 April 2022 at 9:50 am

     That is an absolutely uncharacteristic post from you it makes no sense please consider immediate medical attention as I am afraid your your blood oxygen may be way too low – this is not an attempt to harass or criticize I am concerned for your well being please seek medical help now
     • Ad 6.2.1

       7 April 2022 at 10:14 am

       2022 Budget policies will feed into the Tauranga election.
   • James Simpson 6.3

     7 April 2022 at 11:11 am

     Labour could promise every Tauranga citizen a million dollars each, dropped into their bank account the day after the bi-election – provided that the Labour candidate is elected…

     And they would still lose.

     This is not a poll on the government's performance. This is a bi-election is a safe blue seat.

     The inevitable loss will mean nothing in the greater scheme of things.
   • RosieLee 6.4

     7 April 2022 at 11:25 am

     The by election is on Saturday June 18. Does that help?
   • Patricia Bremner 6.5

     7 April 2022 at 2:03 pm

     Ad, Labour has zero chance of winning in Tauranga. Why would that prove anything other than the status quo ? Straw poll? for Straw Men?
   • swordfish 6.6

     7 April 2022 at 3:20 pm

     .

     With the Tauranga by-election on May 19th, Climate Change plan coming out a week after that, and the Tauranga by-election on June 18th … What can Labour do now to turn their fortunes around?

     Well, for a start … stop wasting public money on 2 by-elections in the same electorate just a month apart. Seems just a little bit … extravagant … and vaguely indecisive.

     Still, each to their own, I spoze.

     [To be brutally honest, I’ve long favoured monthly by-elections in every geographical seat as a way of making politics much more interesting … so this would certainly seem to be a move in the right direction by the Govt]
     • Ad 6.6.1

       7 April 2022 at 3:41 pm

       To be brutally honest for someone who follows polls you have a dim view of democracy.
       • swordfish 6.6.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 5:29 pm

         No, big believer in liberal democracy …unlike the affluent & autocratic Woke.
7. Tiger Mountain 7

   7 April 2022 at 9:10 am

   Keep it up Greens! Rent Freeze now, then Rent Control. Stick it up the bludging landlords.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300560111/green-party-pushes-for-rent-controls-hoping-house-and-rental-prices-will-fall?fbclid=IwAR1gQm4G8p8mZk16ojwxmApK2tlZiIO5uhQYy2AW4d4oTpJR1tGgqBjPWPk
   • RedLogix 7.1

     7 April 2022 at 9:23 am

     And here is one way to deliver homes rather than just more misery.
     • Ad 7.1.1

       7 April 2022 at 10:16 am

       All a Labour or National government would have to do is get rid of the Bright Line test for all new builds.

       Watch the new rentals shoot up.
       • Poission 7.1.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 10:44 am

         The new builds in the CBD in CHCH a high proportion already went to investors between 50-90 %,A high proportion went into short term accommodation.

         A more sustainable outcome was to make them legalise their activity,change the rating,and increase their opex costs with building act requirements such as WOF.

         Only need 10% of inventory to move back into the residential market,and that would increase the listed rental stock in CHCH by 25%.

         https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128264975/airbnb-slams-christchurchs-new-house-sharing-rules-as-most-restrictive-in-australasia
       • SPC 7.1.1.2

         7 April 2022 at 10:46 am

         It might guarantee more new builds, not necessarily new rentals.

         I say it might, because it depends on the market.

         I will agree in that with a market at a high and interest rates sure to rise (prevent the market rising further) there is less prospect of build and profit. And more of have the equity to build and rent out because there is market demand for a place to live by those who cannot buy at these prices.

         In the USA equity firms are buying up houses to rent out for the return. NZ Super Fund and Kiwi Saver may do the same.

         Investing in new builds at the peak of the market, when interest rates are rising … is a game for those with equity and who can hold and earn rent income.
   • mikesh 7.2

     7 April 2022 at 9:44 am

     I don't know about "bludging landlords". However many seem to have been sucked into unwise investments by the interest deductibility subsidy.
     • Barfly 7.2.1

       7 April 2022 at 10:30 am

       Accommodation Supplements = Billions funneled to landlords
       • Tiger Mountain 7.2.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 3:10 pm

         
8. Anne 8

   7 April 2022 at 9:57 am

   Read Soper's latest out of curiosity:

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/barry-soper-why-there-was-no-point-sticking-around-for-ashley-bloomfield/OSLFTGIDSO5WL5VXVO57X6D2BM/

   A bitter, bombastic, misogynistic, jealousy ridden racist rant of bile.

   Feel free to add any further appropriate adjectives….
   • SPC 8.1

     7 April 2022 at 11:02 am

     It was not as bad as I expected.

     I would agree with Soper, it was clearly not a job that Bloomfield would have found tempting enough to stay on for. A year working with Little and then the 2023 election challenge to the administration (political attacks on the Maori Authority etc) and potential of having to work with National (and risk of being removed). So much easier to take a sabbatical, do some advisory/consulting work and wait for post 2023.

     Sure the normal – better qualified older white men not having a job and younger women of colour having jobs is par for the course for those of his generation and ambition to remain in control. It's equal part legacy white man privilege and colonialism – no wonder he just loves Winnie, one who knew his place.
     • Anne 8.1.1

       7 April 2022 at 11:43 am

       A year working with Little and then the 2023 election challenge to the administration (political attacks on the Maori Authority etc) and potential of having to work with National (and risk of being removed). So much easier to take a sabbatical, do some advisory/consulting work and wait for post 2023.

       Spare me the nonsense. The man is exhausted and so are the other senior health officials. They don't want their lives snuffed out early with exhaustion-induced heart attacks and the like.

       You and Soper should team up.
       • SPC 8.1.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 12:04 pm

         Do you know what sabbatical means?

         What a sad reaction – me too tribalism us or them at its worst.
   • Anne 8.2

     7 April 2022 at 11:19 am

     A realistic counter to the twisted conspiracy weaved by Soper:

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/464787/ashley-bloomfield-s-resignation-he-felt-the-pressure-along-with-the-rest-of-us

     In short, Bloomfield and senior colleagues are burnt out after 2 years of 12 hour days and 7 day working weeks. There is no conspiracy. Nor is there bad blood. He's made up the drivel about Ardern in an attempt to further vilify her.

     Imo, he's gone too far this time and the Press Council should take action against him.
     • alwyn 8.2.1

       7 April 2022 at 12:34 pm

       "Press Council should take action against him".

       If you feel that strongly about it why don't you complain? Or have you already done so? If you aren't willing to go to the trouble of doing so then your statement is merely another of the "Someone outa do something" variety.

       It is now (and has been since 2017) the New Zealand Media Council. The things you have to do in making a complaint are described here. I don't believe it costs anything to make a complaint but there are are a number of things you will have to do before they take the complaint up.

       https://www.mediacouncil.org.nz/complaints/

       Well, are you going to do it , or are you just going to complain here? Let us know how you get on won't you?
       • Anne 8.2.1.1

         7 April 2022 at 12:49 pm

         Yeah… knew that little line would come up. I know how to make complaints alwyn but it is up to the Press Council to police their own.

         If I want to bawl someone out on this site I will do so. After all, you make quite a habit of it.

         Now read the RNZ link @ 8.2 and get a handle on the facts of the case (warts n' all) rather than the Soper fiction.
   • Jimmy 8.3

     7 April 2022 at 1:39 pm

     I too agree with a lot of Soper's article. Why would Bloomfield wait around when his job was going to be changing.

     Also, the prospect of working with Andrew Little would not be very tempting.
     • Anne 8.3.1

       7 April 2022 at 4:24 pm

       "I too agree with a lot of Soper's article."

       You would wouldn't you. 😯
9. tsmithfield 9

   7 April 2022 at 10:20 am

   The war in Ukraine is reaching an interesting point.

   From a strategic perspective, I think the Russians would be better to regroup, and reinforce the areas they have taken, and ensure they have a good solid foundation to base further attacks on.

   However, Putin has put the pressure on his forces by declaring a victory by May 9th.

   Therefore, in order to achieve something worth the effort, the Russians will have to go on the offensive again. This is likely to involve attempting to encircle Ukrainian forces in the east which are well dug in, and then try and take the whole Dombas region.

   One option is to try and take the strategically important Sloviansk. The problem with that strategy is that Sloviansk is incredibly well defended, from what I have read. And I expect more Ukranian forces and assets no longer required up North will be deployed there. Therefore, as we have seen in Mariupol which is still fighting, this will be an incredibly hard nut to crack.

   Another option is for the Russians to avoid Sloviansk by looping around it. But the Spring rains are coming, thus turning fields into a quagmire and confining tanks etc to the roads. Also, this strategy involves the problems of maintaining logistic supplies over a long distance. The problem that has plagued the Russians all along. This is going to allow the Ukrainians to continue to ambush convoys with a similar outcome to what the Russians have been experiencing thus far.

   So, I think, rather than going on the offensive too much, at the moment, the Ukranians are best to dig in and let the Russians sustain more losses trying to attack defensive positions as they try and make gains to meet the progress that Putin is expecting.

   Should be interesting times ahead. I hope the Ukranians are supplied with more long range missiles and the like that will allow them to target Russian artillary and ships that have been causing so much damage to civilian areas recently. And I hope they are provided with more long-range anti-aircraft capability to take on Russian bombers.

   While the Ukranians are calling for more tanks, I am not sure that this is such at necessity at the moment as they will be affected by boggy fields as much as the Russians.
   • Ad 9.1

     7 April 2022 at 10:33 am

     20 days out from ANZAC Day I'd concentrate more on suffering and death from warmongers, rather than abstract lines on a map from afar.
     • tsmithfield 9.1.1

       7 April 2022 at 10:40 am

       Agreed.

       The death and destruction is absolutely appalling and unforgivable. But on another level the strategist in me finds the abstract lines on a map quite interesting.

       So far as the death and destruction is concerned, a good thing is that Ukraine is trying to evacuate citizens from population centres in the east that are likely to be in the line of Russian fire. So hopefully there shouldn't be lots of civilian casualties in those areas as we have seen before.

       BTW I started watching that series you recommended ÿday "Secret City''. It looks really good and relevant to our strategic situation down here.
     • aj 9.1.2

       7 April 2022 at 1:57 pm

       … concentrate more on suffering and death from warmongers

       I totally agree.

       Vietnam war: 2,000,000 civilian deaths
       Iraq war: 208,167 civilian deaths
       Yemen War: Estimated 111,000, up to a quarter children.
       Afghanistan war: 46,319 civilian deaths
       Drone strikes since 911: >22,000 at least, possibly as high as 48,000

       War is always horrible.

       Zelensky is ignorant of history..

       https://twitter.com/AP/status/1511365620310364169
   • SPC 9.2

     7 April 2022 at 10:41 am

     It sort of depends whether the May date is real or not. The Russian tanks are viable in the east in the summer. And Ukraine has to prepare for that.

     Sure Ukraine can lift siege by bombardment with better artillery and missile capability (range and numbers).
     • tsmithfield 9.2.1

       7 April 2022 at 10:57 am

       What will be interesting is how soon and where the Russians deploy from Izium. That will give a good idea of their tactics. From sources I have seen, the Russians are heavily bombarding Ukrainian dug in positions in the east which suggests they may be planning to try and break through soon.

       I am sure that Putin will declare a win on May 9th regardless. I guess the problem for the Russians is, if they go for the slow build-up option, it gives the Ukranians a lot more time to get tooled up with better equipment and get trained in more modern systems the West can provide.

       My take on this now is that the West has changed its perspective a bit. Rather than trying to set up an insurgency after a Russian take over, the strong performance of the Ukranians means the West wants to try and prevent Russia from being able to claim a win in Ukraine as this would just embolden Putin to keep on going.
     • Macro 9.2.2

       7 April 2022 at 5:02 pm

       9 May is the date Russia holds its victory parade ie the date Russia won the 2nd ww. 12000 plus troops and all the modern weapons on show. What's not for Putin to love.
   • Scud 9.3

     7 April 2022 at 1:19 pm

     The Ukrainians need more Armour for it's Combined Arms TTP's, yes it's the muddie seasons & once the ground dries out its going to be a fluid Battle Zone.

     The Ukranian Armoured Corps has been very quiet so far, but what I've seen so of the Ukrainian Armoured TTP's they are 1k times better than the Russians.

     Sloviansk Pocket is going to the next crucial battle for the Ukrainians, if they can hold without only major losses.

     Then the Ukranian Military have a chance of doing some serious damage to the Russians especially if the Ukrainian Forces manage to bump the Russians out of the Kherson.

     Russians
10. Reality 10

    7 April 2022 at 10:32 am

    Yes, Anne, reading Soper's cynical bitter column on Dr Bloomfield makes one almost sorry for his new baby growing up with a parent/parents like that. I can never understand why the Herald has a stable full of columnists like Soper, mostly older males. What joyless, miserable people they all are.
    • DB Brown 10.1

      7 April 2022 at 11:46 am

      It only took a couple of reads of Soper, to never again bother with Soper. And yes, there's a whole pack of them, and they're not worth the time either. Their task is supplying anger in soundbites, daily ammo to 'own the libs' in the form of some moronic bumper sticker.

      Don't feed the professional trolls. What they say isn't controversial, it's horse shit.
    • Tricledrown 10.2

      7 April 2022 at 12:16 pm

      Corporate cronies and psychophants.

      Getting well paid to spread toxic untruths.

      Bloomfield has had to negotiate NZ through the biggest catastrophe since WW2.

      The herald stable of treasonous poisonous traitors have no empathy for Ashley Bloomfeild who has had the biggest burden on his shoulders of any single person since WW2.

      Soper is our Lord haw haw.
11. joe90 11

    7 April 2022 at 11:18 am

    Quite the shit list.

    https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1511588538004873216

    […]

    https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1511812771637194754

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1511588538004873216.html
12. Mike the Lefty 12

    7 April 2022 at 11:44 am

    Regarding the political right's scorn over Ashley Bloomfield's resignation.

    They had good reason to hate Bloomfield, because he repeatedly told them what they didn't want to hear, stood by it and resisted all their attempts to undermine his work.

    The political right have few principles and don't like it when their opponents stand fast.
    • Patricia Bremner 12.1

      7 April 2022 at 2:13 pm

      Mike t L, Yes and they feel the same about Jacinda!! They have tried all old and new DP.

      They hate she is still there, and hate she is leading a business delegation to Asia.

      That gets right up their nose.
      • Mike the Lefty 12.1.1

        7 April 2022 at 7:32 pm

        And as far as Jacinda is concerned there is also a certain amount of misogynistic jealousy too. Some elements hate it that we have a female PM who is a real leader.
13. SPC 13

    7 April 2022 at 12:02 pm

    The convergence of they stole the election and mistrust of liberal democracy vaccine mandates – the white race Christian identity movement of Putin (eastern Tsar) of the GOP and the crusade for totalitarian kingdom come power.

    At events across the United States, it is not unusual for participants to describe encountering the divine and feel they are doing their part to install God’s kingdom on earth. For them, right-wing political activity itself is becoming a holy act.

    “Christians are the ones that are responsible for granting you and myself the right and authority over government,”

    “I lay the key of David upon you,” Anthony Kern, a candidate for the Arizona State Senate who was photographed on the Capitol steps on Jan. 6, 2021, proclaimed to the crowd from the stage, paraphrasing a biblical passage about power given by God. “That means the governmental authority is upon you, men and women.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/06/us/christian-right-wing-politics.html
    • roblogic 13.1

      8 April 2022 at 3:10 am

      SPC, it’s the rise of Christian Nationalism, and the splitting of the American church into a militaristic, heretical cult enslaved to Republican propaganda vs the traditional faith and progressive churches who actually know what the Gospel teaches.

      The Maga/Q nuts are ideologically similar to Putin’s crazed regime of Russian nationalism, they are spawned from the same toxic brew of paranoia, white supremacy, and personality cult of a dictator supposedly chosen by God. And the enemy is inhuman, satanic, utterly corrupt, and cheating the true believers out of their rightful inheritance. Only a “final solution” can cleanse the earth of this (shadow projection of themselves) great evil
14. Poission 14

    7 April 2022 at 12:16 pm

    Peak money arises as the Fed reduces QE,and doubles down on signaled rates increases.

    A trillion dollars to be removed from US economy this year.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fed-officials-weigh-shrinking-balance-180243725.html
    • pat 14.1

      7 April 2022 at 12:34 pm

      A trillion plus whatever is removed by defaults.
      • Poission 14.1.1

        7 April 2022 at 12:39 pm

        More likely defaults in the large ne cities or california.Not so much in the Oilbelt with contract driller hands being offered 400k.

        https://www.unitedvanlines.com/newsroom/movers-study-2021?#
        • pat 14.1.1.1

          7 April 2022 at 12:43 pm

          It matters not where the defaults occur, they destroy liquidity and reduce the propensity for credit creation…..and 400k for drilling hands, really! bloody hell thats ridiculous especially in an industry that has lost billions to date.
          • Poission 14.1.1.1.1

            7 April 2022 at 12:51 pm

            Heavy diesel mechanics in mining in WA is offering 200k pa,plus fly in fly out to Perth 14 on 14 off,plus 12% super fully paid,free med etc.

            Sustainable too.

            https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/rural-news/2022-04-06/andrew-forrest-buys-cattle-stations-green-energy-production/100966340
            • pat 14.1.1.1.1.1

              7 April 2022 at 12:56 pm

              True enough…(the numbers are a wee bit bigger now than i recall)….still 400K US and as said the industry has cost investors billions to date.

              Thats confidence that sanctions will be effective and enduring…over confidence imo.
              • Poission …

                7 April 2022 at 1:16 pm

                As the price rises more fields become economic.Without the transport constraint of of oil from large tankers (freight margin around 13bbl) their is a higher local premium.
                • pat …

                  7 April 2022 at 1:25 pm

                  Old pricing structure had them unprofitable under 50 USD a barrel….so say 60+ today….price has eased to low/mid 90s even while OPEC stands back.
                  • Poission …

                    7 April 2022 at 1:33 pm

                    IEA has announced a further 60 million bbls from strategic reserves,(megan woods to wave our futures contract around soon) ,tends to remove the margin players long positions.

                    We as part of the IEA are also supposed to have started a conservation campaign,seems to have been overlooked.

                    https://twitter.com/IEA/status/1511444829712039939?cxt=HHwWhoCyyZHE3fkpAAAA

                    Maybe the working from home part may be unpalatable to hospitality.
                    • pat …

                      7 April 2022 at 1:39 pm

                      Hospitality has more problems than public servants working from home ….but i guess every little bit helps.
                    • Poission …

                      7 April 2022 at 1:54 pm

                      I think hospitality has more problems from landlords wanting market rent increases,when bums on seats are decreasing.
                    • pat …

                      7 April 2022 at 1:56 pm

                      That old real estate bubble causing problems everywhere.
15. joe90 15

    7 April 2022 at 12:17 pm

    But dog forbid we mock and deride these folk and their economic anxiety.

    https://twitter.com/stphnfwlr/status/1510663380314783744
    • SPC 15.1

      7 April 2022 at 12:22 pm

      Just say Space Force like Trevor Noah channeling Trump and then consider how children learn to imitate "adult" behaviour …

      Anatomically correct puppets …
16. aj 16

    7 April 2022 at 1:11 pm

    Timely reminder. Dr Dan Goyal:

    Omicron is far more dangerous than the Flu.

    Many have bought into the “Covid is now like the Flu” narrative.

    So here’s the science without the scientific jargon.

    Judge for yourself.

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1511590788647604226.html
17. Jimmy 17

    7 April 2022 at 1:48 pm

    Jacinda Ardern needs to have a few stern words to Poto Williams after this interview.

    "Williams said she was "not over the detail" despite 1News having sent the details to her office, and described it as an "operational matter to the police".

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/04/06/kiwis-having-to-wait-longer-and-longer-for-police-help/

    Luckily for Poto, Helen Clark is not the PM else she would probably be packing up her office today. Poto needs to get over the detail. She's the minister.
    • James Simpson 17.1

      7 April 2022 at 4:44 pm

      It is an operational matter.

      That's a Costa issue. Poto can't control that and shouldn't interfere.
18. Poission 18

    7 April 2022 at 3:40 pm

    Rabid feral at US capitol bites 9

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-07/viral-capitol-fox-put-down-biting-nine-people-officials/100973484
    • Descendant Of Smith 18.1

      7 April 2022 at 4:09 pm

      I always try to avoid fox news.

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