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Open Mike 07/10/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 7th, 2018 - 121 comments
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121 comments on “Open Mike 07/10/2018 ”

  1. chris73 1


    ‘An actor who played a child bride in a World Vision campaign says she is surprised at how few bystanders publicly objected to the stunt.’

    Probably because the ‘bride’ looked 18

  2. Matthew Blomfield started defamation proceedings against Cameron Slater in 2012 after a series of posts (thirteen) on Whale Oil attacking Blomfield. It finally goes to trial on Monday after Slater ran out of legal options to avoid facing the claims against him.

    If Blomfield is successful there is a real possibility that Whale Oil be fucked.

    Some of Slaters partners in grime may be getting a bit nervous too.


    • mickysavage 2.1

      Thanks Pete.

      Very interesting …

      The case will no doubt get into the guts of Slater and Co’s modus operandii …

      I recommend everyone have a read.

      • Pete George 2.1.1

        I am particularly interested to see whether the trial gets into disclosing whether the campaign against Blomfield was a paid for hit job (Dirty Politics suggested that is what happened in other campaigns on Whale Oil) , or whether it was just out of control nasties. I think it was quite possibly both.

        • mickysavage

          Funny that these are the only two possibilities …

          • Dukeofurl

            Again Blomfield doesnt seem the most charming of people , but boy is he dogged.
            I well remember the series at the time reading The Oily Orca

      • veutoviper 2.1.2

        It should also be noted that Felix Geiringer is representing Blomfield now, so things may well get interesting.

        In case some here don’t know. Felix is a Wellington based barrister and solicitor who is also Nicky Hager’s lawyer and took his cases against the police etc over their raid on Hager home. So he is well versed in Slater and Dirty Politics etc. LOL.


        A diversion.
        For oldie Wellington females such as myself, Felix’s parents were well known as leading doctors here in Wellington in supporting women’s health including rights to contraception, sexual health etc starting back in the 1960s onwards – Dr Erich Geiringer and Dr Carol Shand.

        Erich Geiringer died in 1995 after a very full and interesting life as well as an interesting family background. Worth a read, so here is his wikipedia entry as a start plus a wider Google search with much more detail – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Geiringer

        Dr Carol Shand is still a practicing part-time GP in Wellington now in her ’80s – also with an interesting back story as her father was Tom Shand, “the staunchly right-wing and red-baiting National cabinet minister who, from the mid-50s till his death in 1969, hustled New Zealand along the path of material progress and modernisation.” Felix’s political do not follow those of the current incarnation of his maternal grandfather’s Party! Actually a very nice guy.

        This quote is from this article which gives a good summary of the whole family.

        • OnceWasTim

          Not only in supporting women’s health, but they also had some sensible and progressive ideas on treatment of drug addiction etc.
          Incidently, RNZ Sunday: Johann Hari and Kyle MacDonald this morning

          • veutoviper

            Thanks for that. Haven’t been listening to RNZ Sunday this morning as finally decided it was time to do some housekeeping – spring is here and winter hybernation can no longer be used as an excuse!

            Will listen to the recordings later as definitely an area of interest to me. Don’t know Kyle personally but he was a professional associate of a long term member of my wider whanau who died a couple of years ago.

  3. Jenny 3

    The Snails of Stockton is a cautionary tail

    (Protecting the rarified (but not endangered) environment of a species of banksters, cost the taxpayer many many times more).

    What Happened Here?
    Charlie Mitchell – Stuff.co.nz, October 7, 2019

    What the above story, that appeared in Stuff.co.nz this morning, didn’t tell us, is that Solid Energy, (in truth the private foreign banking investors involved), were bailed out by the taxpayer to cover their losses when Solid Energy when bust, to the tune of a quarter of a billion dollars.*

    Even this wasn’t enough, feeling hard done by, one of these foreign banks, the Japan-based Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi, sued the government for even more taxpayer bail out money.

    You couldn’t make this stuff up.

    But what was briefly mentioned, is that while the protection of native species is grounds for challenging a coal mine, climate change, which may be an even greater tragedy, and may one day even see the remaining members of our species also living in plastic climate controlled environments, is not allowed under current NZ laws to be raised as an objection to coal mining.

    • Jenny 3.1


      *Stranded Assets

      Tokyo Mitsubishi loses case for a a 100% taxpayer bail out

      What is interesting to note, is that the foreign bankster investors in Solid Energy were all unsecured creditors, but still got $256 million in total out of the taxpayer. Compare this to the zero amount, unsecured tradies will likely get from the Ebert collapse.

      Not only were the banksters handsomely bailed out. The divestment and breakup and sell off of Solid Energy’s coal mining operations and coal futures, into private coal companies guarantees coal mining in New Zealand way into the future past 2050.

      • Dukeofurl 3.1.1

        I dont quite see the where it says the banks got $256 mill in taxpayer bailout.
        There was the stste taking on Solid Energy’s $103 million land remediation obligations but that isnt money going to ceditors.
        As I can see it the banks converted loans into bonds but they werent paid out either.
        There was $155 mill taxpayer injection but that was complicated and only some cash went into company and was likely spent keeping it running.
        When you convert bonds ( which require interest to be paid) into shares ( which dont) there isnt really any money transferred.

    • SaveNZ 3.2

      +100 Jenny, thanks for sharing the link. Such sad reading – so our pathetic RMA and environmental laws screwed a conservation area, have destroyed the only habitat of a native species, destroyed and polluted the river, added million of tons of carbon dioxide to climate change, spied on people, enriched climate change deniers, had our SOE accumulate $400m of debt from which it couldn’t recover, created at least 100m of environmental liability the taxpayers have to pay for and now sounds like the taxpayers needed to bail out the banks hundreds of millions and pay for litigation when the banks expected more corporate welfare?

      Mining sounds like a pathological industry – Pike River comes to mind by killing 29 people with little to zero safety in place, as well as this disgusting example.

      NZ mining industry seems completely dysfunctional in every way and the government is dysfunctional for supporting mining against the environment again and again.

  4. james 4

    Fantastic come from behind win by the Mighty All Blacks this morning in SA.

    Then Bathurst this afternoon, and yes ed we are having a BBQ as well.

    Its going to be a lovely day.

    • chris73 4.1

      IMHO Beuden should be at fullback, Richie at 1st five and Ben on the wing. This is the backline that just looked so much more likely

      I think that other countries have caught up to and can now nullify Beauden, to a certain degree anyway especially at first five

      • James 4.1.1

        I think saying other countries have caught up is a bit of a push but SA certainly have our number.

        Aussie on the other hand ……

        • chris73

          Maybe not caught up to the ABs but have definitely worked out to nullify, or at the very least, lessen Beaudens influence

          Same with Sonny Bill, backlines are now working out what to do with him but thats a good thing for rugby overall, keep the tests tighter will build more interest

      • AB 4.1.2

        Guys (James, Chris73) – you could make this drivel even more irritating if you used a phonetic spelling that sounded like Steve Hansen talking. Worth a try I reckon.

        • chris73

          Well AB at the end of the day both teams came to play rugby, the boys dug deep, it was game of two halves and we always believed but in the end the winners were triumphant because they gave 110% for the full 80 minutes and thats the mark of a champion team 🙂

          • James

            AB you get bonus points for even knowing who Steve Hansen is.

          • Morrissey

            Spoiled at the end of the match by this cliché-larded exchange:

            JUSTIN MARSHALL: You no doubt took some learnings from this game?

            STEVE HANSEN: This is a young group….

            • b

              people who say “learnings” should be strung up….not that you could tell if Hansen said it

          • mac1

            Chris73, you forgot to say that “In the end, Rugby was the winner” but you nailed everything else. 🙂

            • McFlock

              Well, he had worked hard on the fundamentals so all credit to him, it was a good effort and came through with a good result.

              • Sacha

                Nah, youse need the Woke version of Steve (1min): https://youtu.be/hetJVYRP2sA

                • Load of old shit.

                  Remember this?

                  And lets not have these RWNJ’s try to evoke the good old Kiwi bloke bullshit either to try and derail the topic and soften their agenda’s. Almost as tasteless as this :

                  John Key booed by section of the crowd at NRL Nines on Waitangi Day

                  John Key booed off the stage at the Big Gay Out – LGBT against the TPPA

                  • Oh,… and if any RWNJ’s try to give a trolls answer about providing links?- copy and paste the whole thing onto your search engine morons, and watch the vid. 6 year olds can do that now.


    • Jenny 4.2

      Then Bathurst this afternoon, and yes ed we are having a BBQ as well.

      Its going to be a lovely day.


      Yep, toss another prawn on the barbie cobber.

      As the gas guzzling fossil fueled extravaganza at Bathurst reaches it crescendo on another lovely Aussie Spring day, and the sun breaks through the blue exhaust smoke to shine on the Bathurst Mt Panorama circuit. Off the back of that wonderful good news story, the lucky country can briefly succumb to the hoopla and escape from the reality of another impending hell summer.

      Eastern states set for scorching weather as Spring heatwave hits

      SUPERCARS championship leader Shane van Gisberegen is trying to avoid getting caught up in the mystique surrounding the Bathurst 1000, but admits it’s difficult.

      The Red Bull Holden Racing Team driver and 2016 Supercars champion will team up with fellow New Zealander Earl Bamber for this weekend’s race.

      His best Bathurst 1000 finish was a second in his championship-winning year. “I think people get wound up in the race and the mystique of it and that’s what I’m trying not to do the last few years, but you just can’t help it,” van Gisbergen said.

      “It’s such a massive race all your heroes have won there and when you get there, you get pretty excited.”

      And in another good news story:

      In this country, it seems there is also no such thing as a bad day for Aussie coal mining giant Bathurst Resources, just different kinds of good days.

      Bathurst Coal Mining clears final transaction hurdle to take over Solid Energy Assets

      • Humma 4.2.1

        That last link of yours is really old you know. I have shares in Bathurst and they have been mining Stockton for over a year now in a JV with Talleys. Lucky for them they have Winston Peters in their corner. (Winston and Talleys good buddies)

        • greywarshark

          Winston could hardly stop something that had been agreed, signed up to etc. Are you implying Humma that he is the one responsible for getting this going, or keeping it going at Stockton. That’s not a new mine is it?

    • mauī 4.3

      Sounds like a meathead sort of day.

  5. Morrissey 5

    Is there a more ridiculous political figure,
    anywhere, than the egregious Michael Gove?


    • tc 5.1

      Boris and Farage make up quite the brexiting threesome.

      In another land and time that lot would probably be tried for treason over the shafting and bs they’ve feed their country. Not that these frontmen care.

      • Morrissey 5.1.1

        They’re louts, pure and simple. They are the British equivalents of the louts and loons of the Trump regime. To compound the horror, Gove and Johnson are, absurdly, routinely touted as “intellectuals”.

        • tc

          No surprise in the dystopian Tory world they circulate in they’re geniuses. MSM helps with that illusion.

          However in the real world it’s another matter entirely.

  6. Dennis Frank 6

    Pathological liar endorsed by congress: “The Senate backed Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination by 50 votes to 48.” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45774174 “Two Republican waverers, Susan Collins and Jeff Flake, finally decided to back the judge.”

  7. Sanctuary 7

    Everyone knows we have to reduce our fossil fuel consumption or the planet is doomed.

    Yet banning oil and gas exploration is hysterically presented as a dagger to the heart of business confidence and the reactions to the rising cost of fuel shows how addicted we are are to unsustainable cheap fossil fuels.

    We have a neoliberal consensus across both main political parties which leaves us completely paralysed, with a crippling ideological aversion to planning giving our politicians a coward excuse of a way out from grappling with how to transition from trucks and fossil fuels to an electric future.

    The cognitive disconnect is huge.

  8. Dennis Frank 8

    HdPA: “In this week’s Herald Mood of the Boardroom survey, Bridges scores almost as badly as Iain Lees-Galloway and that’s the guy trying to torpedo business with employment law changes that terrify them. Bridges feels like a placeholder leader.”

    “That earnest way he answers questions. His always-furrowed brow. His pleading eyes.
    It’s like he’s begging you to take him seriously. It’s like he’s learnt his lines. That’s the look of a politician trying to imitate something he doesn’t have. Authenticity.” So, out of all the journos that some here call right-wing, Soper is the only one still lying low, reluctant to pronounce the verdict that the Nat leader’s performance demands.

    Andrea Vance: “his media appearances lack weight and authority and he often gets tangled up in word salads. And the harder he tries, the less authentic he appears.” Who would they replace him with? The Nats “need a charismatic figure at the top. The name that keeps cropping up in certain circles is Air NZ boss Christopher Luxon, seen as the ‘next’ John Key.”

    • Sacha 8.1

      “The name that keeps cropping up in certain circles”

      Bloody aliens.

    • Dukeofurl 8.2

      Bridges has had all the authenticity media trained out of him. Doesnt help that he comes from a background where truthfulness does matter and yet he wants to lead national party!
      Joyce was the opposite but missed out as national wanted a young and fresh person to play the identity politics card against Adern.

    • Incognito 8.3

      I thought the article by Andrea Vance was weak and pointless; it also contained a few Tui statements but not quite of the shock-jock level. Simple space-filling on a quiet Sunday in Spring during the School Holidays.

      • Dennis Frank 8.3.1

        Fair enough. Where I’ve been coming from is documenting a decisive shift in media opinion against Bridges (mostly in the past week). Sort of like how weather vane swings around in response to a change of wind direction. But if you’re significantly younger than me you won’t know what I’m talking about – they were once a common sight on house roofs but can’t recall seeing one for yonks…

        • Anne

          An astute observation D.F. I haven’t spotted one for yonks either. They were so useful. Pop your head out the window and check your neighbour’s wind vane before venturing out of doors.

        • Incognito

          Never seen a weathervane in my life; I believe they’re quite common in certain places in Europe, especially on farm houses 😉

          MSM are very useful for manufacturing consent or discontent, especially if they believe they have or hold the power. What better way to confirm their self-belief than to predict the demise of a political ‘leader’ and a coup, which often appears to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. In other words, MSM smell blood because somebody is whispering into their ears that the hungry wolves have woken up. The usual suspects working for MSM will do everything to bask in the glory of their own self-importance once Simon has been replaced or rolled; I’ve got my bucket ready …

      • The Chairman 8.3.2

        “I thought the article by Andrea Vance was weak and pointless…”

        What are your thoughts on this opinion piece in the link below?


        Is Jacinda a hypocrite​?  

        Additionally, re-classifying synthetic cannabis as a class A drug will see those convicted receive higher sentences, which won’t do Andrew Little any favours reducing prison numbers.

        • Incognito

          I do apologise, but I’ll pass for two reasons: 1) I generally avoid Damien Grant and the headline puts me off even more (yes, I know, the headline was not written by Mr Grant) and 2) I’d really like to write a Post for TS (on something different) and it’s already quite late and I’m a very slow writer.

    • Hanswurst 8.4

      Where were all these astute commentators when John Key became leader of the National Party?

  9. eco maori 9

    I see some people don’t like the Eco Maori Effect one person takes my word’s and twisted it Clayton that is. I see he has close links to my arch nemesis figure .
    My point on Kiwi Values is I don’t want to see powerful wealthy classes of people coming here and they will be in increasing numbers with what is happening around Papatuanuku at the minute .
    Wealthy using there money to shape our laws to suite them bending the people views that it is beneficial to all the people if we sell our state assets to them /privatisation.
    That model benefits only the % 00.1 they get the assets cut staff numbers run the asset into the ground take there PROFITS and run next minute our governments have to take the run down asset and pour billion’s back into it to get a first world service out of that asset.
    Also we don’t want them manipulating the people to think its ok to have mokopuna starving tangata living under a bridge while they sip there red wine and laugh my accountant just found / LOBBIED a system were I only pay % 00.3 tax on my proft’s .
    I don’t want people to think it is ok to clear the land to build there fancy what ever and next minute there actions have caused a precious creature to go extinct .
    Ka kite ano link below P.S I fell for it at first but once I seen him attacking the vulnerable I say no more



  10. cleangreen 10

    So please tell me why we don’t hear about who is complaining about TPPA now?

    Has the matter been resolved, with ISDS, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement and other matters?

    One positive side of the trump presidency was his disdain of the ‘One World Government’.

    Are we free from being sued now?

    Do you want your children and grandchildren to grow up in a global socialist “utopia” in which everything about their lives is micromanaged by bureaucrats working for a worldwide system of government instituted by the elite?


    • Dukeofurl 10.1

      Are you up to your usual soft Trump support again ?
      Is a anti Soros rubbish rant rant coming later ?

    • The Chairman 10.2

      “One positive side of the trump presidency was his disdain of the ‘One World Government’.”

      It was interesting to see him openly express disdain for the UN. One wonders where it will lead?

    • Half of these twats either couldn’t understand or deliberately ‘don’t’ want to understand, Cleengreen,… they’ve made their position clear months and years back when Trump won.

      All they are relegated to now is snickering like schoolyard brats about paper stuck to a shoe or what colour the tie is that Trump wears…

      Soros must be one old frustrated man. If that’s all his multi billion dollar paid media hitmen can come up with I’d be frustrated too. What a waste of life. Deplorable’s?… no,… just Americans who see whats been going on and backed the right horse. After 55 years on from the assassination of JFK , and the United Nations takeover by the globalists ,… this is the sort of thing we can expect. Spoilt brats who cant take a democratic win when it goes against what they want.

      Pay em no heed.

  11. joe90 11

    Wallace’s Johann Hari interview is a cracker.

    [audio src="https://podcast.radionz.co.nz/sun/sun-20150322-1006-the_war_on_drugs_-_johann_hari-048.mp3" /]


  12. joe90 14

    Persona non grata in UK journalism after smearing a Guardian freelancer in Nicaragua.

    The National Union of Journalists has cancelled its annual Black History Month lecture after its guest speaker this year, Canary editor Kerry-Anne Mendoza, published reports attacking a Guardian freelancer working in Nicaragua as part of a “smear campaign” that led to his deportation.

    Goette-Luciak had been covering protests calling for Nicaragua’s long-serving president, Daniel Ortega, to step down. Hundreds have been killed in a violent government crackdown issued in response, which the NUJ says has also targeted journalists documenting the protests.


    Previously on TS https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-02-10-2018/#comment-1531392

  13. It was a dark day…

    Linda Sarsour, one of the organisers of the Women’s March

    “This is not just a blow to women. It’s about immigration, refugees, the rights of people of color, voting rights, reproductive rights, Native American rights – this disastrous process and conservative judge represents a rollback in time. It’s what the Republicans have wanted for 20 years. Today I am outraged. I’m exhausted.


  14. adam 16

    Anyone who has dealt with Work and Income or children and young persons services – Oranga Tamariki will get this video instantly. From Chris Hedges aired on RT, so the crowd who have prejudice, can turn away now.

    Seems our scummy Tory politicians are in the back pocket of the corporations already. Funny our present government is not doing much to counter this invasion into the lives of poor and working people. Probably has somthing to do with those feeling of middle class superiority.

  15. CHCOff 17

    This would be a good public conversation for Marama Davidson to have:


    Firstly, why as the co-leader wasn’t she provided the relevant stats for the party’s policy? Who’s responsible for that, isn’t Shaw the stats man for the Greens? He seemed to have some sort of statistical cover for his own interview according to this.

    Secondly didn’t the Greens just about write themselves off, in the last election by their blue green elite element getting stuck into their last female co-leader relating to the welfare area? And i say elite element, in that the majority rank and file Green membership recently overwhelmingly voted for Davidson in a somewhat repudiation of that falling out (rather than that of nearly being thrown in ‘the clink’ after a recent reckless & dangerous episode of self-promotion and public nuisance).

    Are there dissatisfied elite Greens, deliberately trying to sink the Green Party??

    • Dennis Frank 17.1

      Very interesting! I’ll try a few guesses (don’t mistake me for someone in the know). First question: Depends if the Green caucus uses a staffer to do that, or they expect MPs to do it themselves.

      Second question: I’d be surprised if James was responsible for providing stats. Too busy doing important stuff. Third question: yes (but usage of elite in that context is invalid). Fourth question: (as a long-time elitist Green) no, that’s a wacky notion!

      Definitely significant that James & Russel called her interview terrible & a shocker. Could be she’s not finding the transition from activist to parliamentarian easy. The Nation got so consistently tedious I’m amazed it still has a viewer – obviously someone with incredible intestinal fortitude.

      • alwyn 17.1.1

        It doesn’t matter a damn who is “supposed” to develop the stats surrounding a policy.
        She shouldn’t go on air announcing a policy and not be prepared to answer the obvious questions she is going to get. If she is so stupid that she hasn’t made sure she is prepared then she shouldn’t go ahead with the announcement.
        If Shaw, or another Green MP, has announced a policy and she is asked about it she is quite entitled to plead a lack of detailed knowledge. When it is her coming up with the policy she is not. It makes both her, quite fairly, look unprepared, as was most definitely the case.
        She knew that she had no idea about the policy when she started talking about it. Why didn’t she just shut up?

        She looked just like David Cunliffe in the 2014 election debate with Key where Cunliffe couldn’t answer a pretty simple question on the CGT that was at the heart of the campaign. He looked totally unprepared and he was punished for it.
        Davidson was even worse. She had no idea about the most obvious first question she was going to get.

        • Dennis Frank

          I agree she seems to have made herself vulnerable to that sort of criticism. Since I routinely disagree with the leftist Greens, I’m intrigued that one leader of that group is being criticised by a former leader of that group. That’s unprecedented. Perhaps Russel has transcended the Marxism in his past?

          Anyway, the bean-counting approach to politics ought not to be regarded as sacrosanct. Plenty of aspiring politicians aren’t bean-counters. Nor is there any political convention in parliament that all MPs have to be. The pathetic tendency to reduce politics to whatever can be funded, and put a dollar amount on policies accordingly, only became normal due to neoliberalism as a political fashion trend.

          Russel & James are acting as if neoliberalism is an eternal convention that must be adhered to. Boy, have I got news for them!! It’s fast heading in the direction of Trotsky’s dustbin of history. Russel & James ought to keep up with the play.

          • Sacha

            Fast? In geological timespans, maybe.

            • Dennis Frank

              Yeah, okay, call me an optimist. 😎 I’m going on the escalation in the calling of this tune that has become evident via the Corbyn/Sanders revival of socialism, supported by a wave of young folk, plus media commentaries of the trend. Not being a socialist myself, I doubt I’m overstating it. Fellow-traveller? Perhaps, depends how much substance kicks in behind the wishful thinking, and how much intelligent design..

              • Sacha

                I’d give it another 20 years until a selfish generation has lost grip on power after fucking the planet some more.

          • Incognito

            I agree about the bean-counter attitude of MSM! The interview with Davidson was typical gotcha-style tactics akin “show me the money”. Of course, it took any attention away from the policy per se. Five days later Shaw gets asked the same question – we have to assume he was (better) prepared – and he only presents some soft numbers and guesstimates, by his own admission, and does not get hounded for it!?

            To be precise, Shaw said this about Davidson’s interview: “I’ve had, you know, some shockers in my time as well”.

            • Dennis Frank

              Ah, thanks for that actually quote, I didn’t see either interview. So it was not a direct criticism by James, just an implication. He’s normally circumspect & diplomatic so it makes sense.

              Ardern is running a neoliberal govt while steering somewhat in the direction of socialism. Costing policies in that context is therefore a reasonable expectation. Marama could have said “Hey, I’m a socialist. We do aspiration. When in government we use a finance minister and public service accountants to cost policies. If we get Labour on board with this policy, costing will be done by the govt. We’re not part of their policy-costing process because we’re not part of the coalition – we just support them.”

              Equally, Russel Norman could have pointed this out rather than defer to his sense of neoliberal orthodoxy. He’s not stupid. That’s why I’m intrigued that he feels the need to criticise another leftist Green leader. It could mean that he’s shifted so far from his earlier Marxist leaning that he’s verging on centrist but not yet willing to admit it.

              • RedLogix

                Ardern is running a neoliberal govt while steering somewhat in the direction of socialism.

                Which is about what can be made to work. Go too far, they’ll be out of power and we’re back to lazy do nothing Tory govts. We should be a lot more appreciative of what we have and work with it while it lasts.

                The radical types around here forget that the political spectrum is normally distributed; us moderates represent the large bulk of voters. Piss us off too much and you’re goneburger.

                • Dennis Frank

                  Yes, indeed. That whole Turei thing was misconceived – there’s a huge difference between helping folks who need it and doing what’s required to be a political winner. She didn’t have a clue about it. You can do both (it’s as hard as walking while chewing gum) but she couldn’t figure out how and the Green caucus deferred to her idealism (excepting the two dissenters).

                  The political problem around representation of beneficiaries is that of how to get traction. There must be a very good reason why they keep refusing to form their own political lobby. There must be a good reason nobody (including, as far as I know, Turei) has campaigned to enter parliament to represent that sector of society. I disagree with the prevalent consensus that nobody ought to discuss these reasons.

                  Which brings us back to your point. Class analysis is of marginal relevance nowadays but probably fair to say that elections are won & lost in the middle class. If anyone disagrees, I will challenge them to identify any of our elections in our lifetime which break that rule. Labour first got in via the lower class in the thirties, when the depression induced a middle/lower class consensus from perception of common deprivation, but anyone left from that decade is likely in an old folks home and not commenting here!

                  • RedLogix

                    At the time I was genuinely sorry to watch Turei’s downfall. She’s a sincere person who was treated poorly; but the object lesson remains.

                    The primary theme that has driven my participation here for over a decade now is inequality; the elimination of the extremes of wealth and poverty. In most of the world we’ve more or less solved the problem of destitution; but we’re further away than ever from understanding and grasping the problem of extreme wealth, and the excessively steep social gradient it imposes.

                    The tools we used to solve poverty are not the same ones that will solve inequality, and this is the trap unwittingly Turei fell into.

                    • Dennis Frank

                      Re inequality, I prefer to distinguish wealth & income. Hard to solve the problem of wealth inequality. Not so hard to solve the problem of income inequality. In Feb 2015 I wrote a paper on that & later put it online http://www.alternativeaotearoa.org/get-this/inequality-towards-a-solution

                      “Plato advised an income ratio of 1:6 for Athens in ancient times. The past 30 years have seen the ratio in western civilisation stretch out from dozens into hundreds.” So the basic idea is to limit income inequality to a ratio derived from consensus in the body politic. This is a typical example of how we can use radical innovative design to provide a better future than socialism offers.

                      On my other blog I also examined the relevant political psychology of inequality: http://altaotearoa.blogspot.com/2015/12/how-to-solve-inequality-problem.html

                    • RedLogix

                      I get your point, but ancient Athens lacked the extraordinary technologies which so massively amplify and scale the potential incomes of the most competent and successful in our modern world. How do we go about putting a cap on that, without crippling the very economic engines which have so effectively eliminated poverty?

                      I’m not pretending to any solid answers; very much a work in progress as far as I’m concerned. (I’ll get to your linky later, but thanks, looks good and is exactly the sort of thing I’m talking about.)

                  • greywarshark

                    Dennis Frank
                    For Turei to get on and be in a place where she could earn and look after her child and not be grinding along in the just getting by lane with a vicious people-despising government or contracted-out entity endlessly looking for fault, it was necessary for her to have enough income and background assistance. She got that by giving up room/rooms in her house to rent, which of course adds complexities and difficulties getting on with others, managing the living space and behaviour in the home.

                    But she did that and it was of value to her, and in a house-stressed country was helpful to the renters. If we were a country that believed in people trying to better themselves, and working hard to do so, showing initiative in getting along, this should have been acknowledged as necessary caused by high costs involved in getting her education along with the her duties as a parent.

                    But no we are a negative bunch of sharp-tongued losers in this country, so we did the tall poppy thing because we do not like people who show too much initiative and show up the rest of us as easy-riders. We don’t want social mobility for satisfaction in this country’s standing, we get ours by picking at others, finding fault, and punishing every possible deviation from the norm that has been established.

                    She should have managed that by talking about the difficulties of single parents and then said ‘this is what i had to do to get my training for my job’. She may have had to step down, but the point would have been made, and she could have looked in the eyes of everyone who shouted and sniped at her, and denied dishonesty,
                    stating it was necessity, a TINA action.

  16. alwyn 18

    Has Twyford released his Press statement yet announcing the magnificent news that a further 574 houses are being developed as part of his wonderful KiwiBuild strategy?
    I have no doubt it will be released imminently. Phil seems to claim any house at all as being due to his genius, doesn’t he?
    Pity about the Chinese bit of course but that won’t bother him for very long.

    • Dukeofurl 18.1

      if the builders could sell their own developments why would they offer them to Twyford and Kiwibuild.

      Even madam Collins has been pushing Kiwibuild to take on some projects for her builder ‘constituents’

      Thats the reality , if they could make more money selling the houses the traditional way , one by one , why would they go to the government and take their offer of the whole block ?

  17. Nic181 19

    The PRC have paid $40 million for the Masfen block in Orewa. Let’s hope the OIO reject this blatant attempt to profit from our housing crisis.

  18. Chris T 20

    Just watched David Shearer on Q & A

    Really is just a genuinely good bloke.

    Shame he didn’t make it in politics. TBF, he probably just wasn’t PR driven enough like the rest, on both sides.

    I doubt having Cunliffe there helped

  19. eco maori 21

    Kia ora The Am Show city’s cause more harm to our water ways than farm’s do .
    We need to get the water quality problems sorted now we have creatures going extinct
    that live in our waterways .
    The UFC well the fan base will have leaped by billion’s social media TV the organization will be making heaps of money. Come on Duncan you know money talks .
    I see why it took so long to build the Sydney Opera house all the curves its hard for man to build curves . I say all the Architect and builder’s would have laughed at my calls to build building round as this shape resistes the wind better .
    They could use triangles to build these houses in kit set form look outside the square people.
    Bathurst around the mountain race Kiwis go koukou over it big Holdens and Ford’s burning around the track.
    All the best to Sam Cane .
    With the bridges leak case that is a classic example of how neoliberalism v socialist
    the neo have low down/ no morels & thee socialist have strong morels .
    The neo liberalist use this Phenomenon as a weapon against us Socialist.
    Ka kite ano P.S free speech YEA RIGHT the world media is used to under mine cultures that are not European based

  20. eco maori 22

    Eco Maori aint no Troll Duncan I could easily end this and go elsewhere If I was a Troll I would not care about the negtive effects I can impose on others

  21. eco maori 23

    Willy Nelson show his support for the Texas Democrat Senate candidate Beto O’Rourke,
    That was one reason why I put his music up +Eco like’s his music .
    All you Wahine & minority cultures need to get up and vote for the candidate who will deliver a better life for you and your grandchildren . Vote ted cruse out he only cares about the money men . The Texas voters changing to Democrat Blue is vitale to change the American political seen to a more socialist humane place.

    Here are Willys Nelson catchphrase If you don’t like who’s in there, vote ‘em out

    That’s what election day is all about

    When they are gone, we will sing and shout
    Ka kite ano the link is below.


  22. eco maori 25

    Eco Maori says to the Millennials if you have had enough of the mess the baby boomers are making of the world and your life you have to get up vote and make a stand as no one else can do that for us.
    I support Equality and so do most other Millennial we don’t fall for the great propaganda that has been running for centuries that men are at the top and wahine are to server man we need a balance of wahine and men in power then we will be a society that will deserve the name Moden Society till that happens I say we are still stuck in the era of the DARK AGES.
    Millennials could be one of the biggest political forces in America today, if
    Defined by Pew as those born between 1981 to 1996, millennials make up about 22% of the US population, and at some point between November’s midterms and the 2020 election, they’re expected to surpass baby boomers as America’s largest living generation. They’re a massive voting bloc, capable of setting policy priorities and swinging elections link is below Ka kite ano P.S the Kavanaugh case was pridictable there will be a massif negative effect for the go oil party over this


  23. eco maori 26

    Here you go the super wealthy are putting there share’s in a charity (YA right ) wrong.
    Like I have said the laws are made by the wealthy to serve the wealthy .
    These people set up there own charity’s they get to keep control of there wealth with the benefits of a charitable tax status all the shares they put in they get to claim some back against there tax its a profitable business model for them what’s better they get to shout our that they are big Philanthropist . YEA RIGHT if these people were serious about humane causes they would spend there money on influencing and backing left leaning politicization around the world ka kite ano link is below.


  24. eco maori 27

    Kia ora Newshub I have been waiting for the ICCI report on OUR Humane Caused Climate It does not look good we all have to change to eco friendly ways of living .
    %35 methane reductions for our farmers does not look to hard a task % 3.5 reduction over ten years less urea more organics farming practices .
    The fuel company’s have pumped up there profit’s in the last how many years I say there is our missing $200 x 10 years $2000 straight to the wealthy cool our goverment is going to make laws to put them in line. If someone did not drop the ball on our climate change actions that Labour & the Greens had in place 10 years a go the cuts would not hurt as much as they could.
    I will bet anyone that our carbon use has gone down sharply .
    I noticed something funny of our Maori women welfare league they are not using the brain’s our tipuna gave us and are not being humble like our tipuna . They have been leading some to behave badly if the law says 3 years in the top job so be it.
    Ka kite ano

  25. eco maori 28

    Kia ora The Crowd Goes Wild James & Storm
    The Rugby well I got a sore face kia kaha.
    Sore foot yea nar don’t diss robe Jame’s .
    Hope the League goes well for us .That’s thanks to te tipuna .
    The youth games a ka pai its good for them heaps of sports
    They did OK our Netball players
    Ka kite ano

  26. eco maori 29

    Kia ora The Am Show That’s the way a wahine sports presenter congratulation’s Gemma x2
    As for carbon use mine has gone down % 95 I was clocking 1000 k a month at least.
    I am targeting some that will make a huge difference in the Worlds green house emission’s . I could set up a 30 man tree planting crew but not while I have these pain in the —– on my back.
    Our Bovine disease its a big mess the person who imported it was a new wealthy citizen ????????. I do believe that our farmers need emotional and financial support but no one has a wand to fix this problem so they have to learn to work together to get it sorted .
    Of course our carbon use has gone up it’s what happens when a population grows rapidly . We need Gull down the South Island competition for the other gas company’s What I laugh at is when company’s try to sell us that there mergers are good for our pockets when we no that when there is no competition I.E monopoly’s
    just line there shareholders pockets .
    Kiwi’s couch yes I agree no waipiro you are role models for te mokopuna’s I hope you have a good run but hay we are all human who make mistakes .
    Duncan it does not have to be to pain full achieving our climate change targets one just has to be intelligent innovative and look outside the square to solve the problem.
    We have done nothing on mitigating our carbon use because of national enough said.
    I say if national were still in we would not even be talking about Global warming at the minute .
    With the influenza epidemic 100 years old. My grate grandfather was one of 12 mokopuna’s he was the only one to survive influenza there is more to his story.
    Ka kite ano

  27. eco maori 30

    I think its is Taylor Swift duty to there fan’s to let them know who they support in there elections . Our World Stars should all come out and show who they support hopefully you will add to the Blue Tsunami that’s is sweeping through America at the minute but don’t sit down and wait for it people get up register and vote millennial’s.
    Link is below ka kite ano


  28. eco maori 31

    Here you go a carbon tax is the best solution to lowering the WORLDS carbon use then divert the fund’s into green energy . Its a simple solution to a complexes problem we need to look outside the square and fine the KICKS keeping it simple solutions to all the world’s problems .One is to promote equality promote Our Intelligent Wahine leaders.
    The few people who are fighting our climate reality are scared of losing power but don’t worry the left people are humane and will treat you humanly . Ka kite ano link below.


  29. eco maori 32

    I think I figured out why maori took to European religion reading and writing so fast .
    It was because of the way we protected OUR treasures religious intellectual and physical treasures . Our wise men kept there knowledge to a restricted very few people who had to go through rigorous teaching methods that weeded out the unworthy contestants people who would past the knowledge on to unworthy would not make the cut . This is why it was deemed sacred not to talk about there sacred knowledge to anyone and hence why It was so hard for settlers to document our wise men knowledge. The only way other Hapu Iwi could get the knowledge was to steal it or steal people who had the knowledge.
    So when Europeans turned up offering the knowledge of a Atua / God an to read and write that usually was limited to a very few people. They jumped at the chance to become like OUR wise men taonga Doctor.
    what I’m saying is that we have to teach the Papatuanuku that our maori taonga Waiata Haka reo is regarded as sacred and sould be treated as such how we stop people from using it for the wrong reason’s well I don’t have the answer for that but with a bit of effort we could come up with a solution link is below ka kite ano


  30. eco maori 33

    Eco Maori agrees totally Efeso Collins that we need more Pasifika & Wahine I say to step up and run for councils all leading roles in management as we are the only one’s who will make policy’s that will be good for OUR mokopuna’s . As we know what the problems are and we know how to find the answers to these problems.
    Other cultures don’t see the problem correctly so there answers to OUR problem’s are most times WRONG.
    I agree that all cultures should have there people looking after there best interests at all levels of government . OUR government we have now is correcting the wrong of the past but our intelligent people still need to step up to the task of making a prosperous future for our mokopuna’s Ka kite ano link below.
    Lack of Pasifika among high-income earners at council shows unconscious bias.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/107676485/lack-of-pasifika-among-highincome-earners-at-council-shows-unconscious-bias P.S I see some trolls in the com attacking this story they don’t have the brain power to work out that we can see there red necks giving bigots opinion’s

  31. eco maori 34

    The Australian government opinion on IPCC report on Climate change is heavily weighted down by the Australian coal industry’s money they are in totally denial of reality.
    Claiming that they can not produce cheap electricity with out coal we no that’s a total lie .Also that Australia can not get by using %1 of coal that they use now.
    People you need to get up and vote the ———–out of Canberra and get leader’s that have your grandchildren’s future at heart and not the huge wallets I would like to see them try and breath there wallet’s when there is no environment left after they have burned it with there coal.
    Lets get this straight the Green energy economy will produce more job and return’s than the carbon industrys they will be more secure job’s the energy price won’t fluctuate like coal does . Ka kite ano
    Links below Bill I will give you a tissue when you lose.https://youtu.be/qw4pSBA3Nss


  32. eco maori 35

    Kia ora Newshub well its good there is a Government surplus can you see what happening around the World I would not go squandering money looking at what happening to the worlds trade by trump.
    Mark Lundy well he is wasting money and our time he is guilty.
    I remember a old farmer that I was trying to convince to put urea on the farm his reply was it could blow up the farm at the time I was not up with the play on urea .
    With the bovine problems Its cool that the government is getting all the major organizations in farming together to work thing’s out for our farmers.
    Off the sheep’s back that sheep has a huge fleece I did a bit of time pressing in between fishing jobs .
    3000 people under the bridge in Auckland our governments are trying to come up with solutions to this problem all over Aotearoa thats why they did the survey .
    trump is the lier he is going to lose the gop—– next month .
    Tasmania devil its cool they are breeding more they are such unique Australian indigenous creatures that deserve all the care it takes to revive there chances of survival .
    % 35 cut to methane in 22 years is not to hard a task for our farmers I got that wrong this morning
    Poor old Luie the lego fanatic its cool that his social media m8 have stepped in to help pay for his stolen Star Wars lego there are many positives from social media. Ka kite ano

  33. eco maori 36

    Kia ora The Crowd Goes Wild James & Mulls congratulations to the new Kiwi Caption
    I see the couch is a bright person.
    The young ones have already won a gold meddle ka pai kai kaha
    Its cool to see the Silver Ferns getting a traditional maori welcome in Australia.
    James don’t go asking Taylor Swift for a duet lol I just remembered We got a niece with Taylor as her first name your singing it quite good Mulls the conductor .
    Ka kite ano P.S Rick may be get the channel on the net

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