Open mike 08/08/2021

49 comments on “Open mike 08/08/2021 ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Morrissey 1

   8 August 2021 at 8:38 am

   You criticise the crimes of this outlaw regime at your peril

   Cancel culture at its most menacing and illiberal.

   https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1424068636147339275
   • Cricklewood 1.1

     8 August 2021 at 9:18 am

     Nah… the Charlie Hedbo massacre was cancel culture at its most menacing… complaining on twitter… not so much…
2. Jenny how to get there 2

   8 August 2021 at 9:07 am

   The John Key National government backed by the Auckland Chamber of Commerce wanted to build a road tunnel under the Waitemata Harbour.

   Writing at the time, Patrick Reynolds, explained why that was a bad idea.

   Will the proposed Waitemata Harbour Crossing be good for drivers?

   Patrick Reynolds | January 12, 2016

   …it [the road tunnel] simply enables more vehicles to travel across a short point in the middle of the city, yet this is by no means an obviously good thing: The list of unwanted outcomes from the current proposal is so extensive that the benefits had better be so extraordinary and so absolutely certain in order to balance them all.

   But perhaps there is no greater reason to not do it than that it simply won’t improve things for drivers.

   Really? How can this be? As well the obvious problem with this project that it will add super capacity for a short stretch of the motorway network and therefore just shifts any bottleneck to the next constriction, particularly the extremely difficult to expand CMJ or Spaghetti Junction, there’s also a bigger structural problem with building more roads to fight traffic congestion. It can’t work.

   https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2016/01/12/will-the-proposed-waitemata-harbour-crossing-be-good-for-drivers/

   Following on the heels of the bike bridge controversy, Grant Robertson has resurrected the idea of an under harbour tunnel.

   But has not yet revealed whether the new tunnel will be rail, or a road tunnel, or a combined road and rail tunnel.

   Government's $785 million Auckland Harbour cycle bridge: Vast majority opposed, poll shows

   3 Aug, 2021 06:14 PM

   ……Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson said the Government is considering scrapping plans to build a dedicated bike bridge alongside the existing Auckland Harbour Bridge.

   Robertson, who is Minister of Finance and Infrastructure, told the Herald the Government wants to bring forward on a second Waitematā crossing, likely to be a tunnel.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/governments-785-million-auckland-harbour-cycle-bridge-vast-majority-opposed-poll-shows/RLLTBIJGGHI6V36XE3B6R7WAAI/

   To give credit where credit is due; In proposing the bike bridge, the Finance Minister and the Minister for Transport were trying to honour an election promise made to Aucklanders to get cyclists and walkers accross the Waitemata, in-line with the government's ambition to encourage greener more sustainable means of transport in our biggest city.
   Unfortunately the eight lane motorway, which essentially is what the Auckland Harbour Bridge is, resisted retrofitting for cycling and walking. Simply put, physics are against it.And the Skypath was cancelled.

   In response to the 'Skypath' cancellation, cyclists staged a protest asking that one lane be taken away from cars on the existing bridge carriageway and made into a cycle way.

   Rather than take the cyclists request for a dedicated bike lane, seriously. To maintain the bridge carriageway for the exclusive use of cars, the government instead offered to build a separate stand alone bridge for cyclists and walkers, at a cost of $785 million.

   Sticker shock, and the fact that the cyclists had not asked for this option, made this proposal unpopular even with bike advocates.

   Auckland harbour cycle and pedestrian bridge facing criticism from both sides

   Radio New Zealand 5 June 2021

   ….Bevan Woodward, a cycling campaigner who has clashed with Waka Kotahi – the New Zealand Transport Agency – in the past, was wondering why the government had just committed to spending close to a billion dollars without even trying an obvious alternative.

   "That is to take the westernmost lane for walking and cycling. Do it initially as a trial to see if it works. We know it's worked many times overseas. Let's try it out – if it works, then that should be the solution," Woodward said.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/444079/auckland-harbour-cycle-and-pedestrian-bridge-facing-criticism-from-both-sides

   Since the promised 'Skypath' add-on is not a goer, and the fall back alternative, an over priced completely bonkers stand alone bike bridge, is looking politically shaky, the government are re-considering building a third harbour crossing, "likely" to be a tunnel

   A $6 billion road tunnel under the Waitemata was proposed by the John Key National government.

   Details of the current government's 'likely' tunnel proposal have not yet been released, what shape this latest tunnel will take, and the time frame for its construction and costings have not been released.

   The original Key National government plan, was for an automotive only tunnel under the Waitemata. cost estimate $6 billion. Green Party Transport Spokesperson Julie Anne Genter, said at the time, the Green Party would support the Key government tunnel if a rail option was added, total cost estimate for this combined road rail tunnel proposal $10 billion. The Green Party have since, reconsidered this position and now support a rail only crossing.

   The question is; will the government be able to resist the combined pressure from the powerful Roading Lobby, the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the National Party, to build more roads across the Waitemata?

   Will the government choose a road tunnel, or a rail tunnel?

   Or, will the government go for the much more expensive combined road and rail tunnel?

   The rail tunnel would solve the bicyle problem as bikes are allowed on trains.
   • bwaghorn 2.1

     8 August 2021 at 9:25 am

     My reckons are thus::

     Build a kickarse road /rail tunnel.

     Make the existing bridge a two lane cycle walking bridge, high clear sides to stop wind and jumpers, 6 remaining lanes (or less if removing the clip ons eases maintenance and increases longevity)for light vehicles only ,possible routed so they dont connect easily to the city so only through traffic use it .
     • Jenny how to get there 2.1.1

       8 August 2021 at 10:19 am

       bwaghorn

       8 August

       My reckons are thus::

       Build a kickarse road /rail tunnel……

       Bless my soul, as John Key lives and breathes,
       At an estimated cost of $10 billion for a combined road/rail tunnel, I reckon, your 'reckons' are mighty expensive.

       And as to who's arses are being kicked;

       Will the proposed Waitemata Harbour Crossing be good for drivers?

       Patrick Reynolds | January 12, 2016

       ……such big tunnels and interchanges [$5-$6 billion and four times as much as just building rail tunnels], to the undesirable flooding of city streets and North Shore local roads with even more cars, to the increase in air pollution and carbon emission this will create, the loss of valuable city land to expanded on and off ramps and parking structures, to the impact on the harbour of exhaust stacks and a supersized motorway on the Shore, to the pressure this will put on the rest of the motorway system particularly through the narrow throat of Spaghetti Junction. It is both the most expensive and least efficient way to add capacity across this route, and if resilience is the aim then the double-down on reliance the motorway system rather works against this….

       https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2016/01/12/will-the-proposed-waitemata-harbour-crossing-be-good-for-drivers/

       "Build a kickarse road /rail tunnel.

       Make the existing bridge a two lane cycle walking bridge, high clear sides to stop wind and jumpers,…." bwaghorn

       You are dreaming if you think building more roads will allow more room for bikes and pedestrians, just the opposite, more roads build more cars.. You need to read this;

       …..We all have experienced being stuck in traffic on a motorway and sat there wishing if only the authorities had just built an extra lane all would be sweet, well it would, wouldn’t it? However the evidence from all round the world shows that while that may help for a little while it never lasts, especially in a thriving city and especially if these extension starve the alternatives of funding, condemning ever more people to vehicle trips on our roads. Soon we’re stuck again wishing for another few billions worth of extra lanes all over again.

       Here’s how it works; each new lane or route simply incentivises new vehicle journeys that weren’t made before; a well known phenomenon called induced demand. Road building is also traffic building, the more we invest in roads the more traffic and driving we get, and not just on the new road; everywhere. Traffic congestion is, of course, simply too much traffic, too much driving. Take for example the I-10 in Houston, the Katy Freeway. In that famously auto-dependent city they freely spent Federal money and local taxes disproportionately on just one way to try to beat traffic congestion, the supply side: ever more tarmac [Houstonians can boast the greatest spend per capita on freeways in the US]. The I-10 which began at six to eight lanes has just had its latest ‘upgrade’ to no fewer than 26 lanes! That ought to be more than enough in a flat city with multiple routes and only half the population Los Angeles. So what happened? According to recent analysis it has made driving this route significantly worse……

       https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2016/01/12/will-the-proposed-waitemata-harbour-crossing-be-good-for-drivers/
   • Ad 2.2

     8 August 2021 at 10:49 am

     They will kill the cycle bridge and put the tunnel back to the consultants.

     No change to traveling public for over a decade.

     More likely that National will start both projects in the 2026 term, because the designs will have settled.
     • Andre 2.2.1

       8 August 2021 at 10:57 am

       No change to traveling public for over a decade.

       When the full connection from the Northwestern motorway to the Northern motorway opens next year, that may make a noticeable change to some of the traveling public. By diverting some of the Harbour Bridge traffic around the end of the harbour.

       Or perhaps not. Maybe it'll be just me, if I've still got a regular need to go to Silverdale next year.
       • Ad 2.2.1.1

         8 August 2021 at 11:09 am

         The SH18-SH1 link travel time differences are miniscule.

         Albany will appreciate the new busway.

         Again, approved under National.
3. Reality 3

   8 August 2021 at 10:11 am

   Re MIQ problems. There are many many instances of difficulties for people not able to access a MIQ stay. Some of these of people left New Zealand for a "better life", higher pay, adventure, and have been away for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. They have not been contributing to this country for that time. They now demand they be able to come back because life wherever they are is not great and expect taxpayers to provide more and more MIQ facilities.

   I know a couple who have been in London for 20 years who want to get back now but in all that time never wanted to live here. So if and when they get back they will add to the demand for a house, a school place, a doctor etc. Yes, a lovely couple who will be great citizens. A really problematic situation for those here and those overseas. Is there a solution?
   • Anne 3.1

     8 August 2021 at 10:30 am

     I guess many of them are professional or semi professional people who have been able to further there careers wherever they are living. But they are still NZers so I can't see how they can be stopped from returning. On the plus side, the knowledge and experience gained overseas could be useful back in NZ.

     Given the long term prospects for Covid 19, I think most will end up by staying here.
     • aom 3.1.1

       8 August 2021 at 2:53 pm

       If the professional or semi professional people who have been able to further their careers choose to return to NZ to live, you have a point. However, if it is the likes of Ms Birt who featured on Morning Report a few days ago in support of her petition, no way! The self-entitled who want to swan back to NZ without the grind of full MIQ to see family without any compelling health or 'life and death' issues can take their place behind the likes of sportspersons, entertainers or people with specialist skills that are needed. Those of us who didn't head off overseas but bit the bullet to 'keep NZ clean' deserve some reward apart from just being covid free.
       • Anne 3.1.1.1

         8 August 2021 at 3:18 pm

         But, but she speaks so nice.

         Yes, I'm with you in this case. Somebody will correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember last year the government gave NZers a reasonably big window in which to get themselves home before the borders were closed. It was noted at the time that a lot of them did not take up the opportunity when it was offered them.
       • aom 3.1.1.2

         8 August 2021 at 6:37 pm

         Oh great, now John Key has had exposure on the TV news at 6.00pm as an expert on Covid and MIQ.

         What next?
         • mac1 3.1.1.2.1

           8 August 2021 at 7:00 pm

           Part of the great New Zealand cult of the 'personality'. If you're well-known, you can pronounce on anything cos you're famous. The question to ask is what experts have been advising you, Mr Key? What did they say?

           Or has he become now the person who offers another opinion?

           "experts were like lawyers" and you could always find another to give a different opinion." John Key 2011

           Do we remember this 2016 National Party? https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/201807260/is-a-'post-truth'-era-upon-us
   • Bearded Git 3.2

     8 August 2021 at 10:52 am

     I think many of the Kiwi's overseas are influenced by living in places like the UK where Boris has been happy to drop virtually all Covid restrictions because 57% of the population have been vaccinated.

     Britain continues to average around 30,000 cases a day; there are alternative sources that say the number is higher and the 30,000 figure is because of fewer tests.

     Effectively Boris is going for herd immunity before winter arrives, through vaccination and by allowing 200,000 people a week to catch Covid.

     My guess is that Kiwi expats living in the UK and influenced by this outlook find it hard to come to terms with the zero covid tolerance approach in NZ. It doesn't help that some of them sound self-entitled where the rules are ok except when they themselves aren't effected. They need to realise that NZ has limited resources. NZ's MIQ system has worked well overall-the media are always gong to be able to find the tiny percentage of cases where it hasn't worked well.
4. Ad 4

   8 August 2021 at 10:43 am

   I'd just like to support the continued Presidency of John Goodfellow. Outstanding work over the many years, and look forward to more of his campaigns and candidate selection.

   We're fortunate to have John and Judith leading National.
   • Bearded Git 4.1

     8 August 2021 at 10:55 am

     Yes Chris Finlayson heard the news live on RNZ's Sunday programme this morning and was amazed Goodfellow had kept his job.

     It sends a signal that the Nats have given up on the next election already.
   • Anne 4.2

     8 August 2021 at 11:48 am

     The Jude and John show. Book now candidates. We operate on the principle of first in first served plus fiscal generosity.

     Hurry, tickets are going fast.
   • Robert Guyton 4.3

     8 August 2021 at 2:23 pm

     Big ups to Judith and John!
   • Muttonbird 4.4

     8 August 2021 at 2:37 pm

     Yep, excellent news.
5. Robert Guyton 5

   8 August 2021 at 2:24 pm

   Has anyone asked the question: do wine-drinkers get covid?
   • RP Mcmurphy 5.1

     8 August 2021 at 2:40 pm

     not if they buy a bottle of trumps snake oil as a chaser
6. RP Mcmurphy 6

   8 August 2021 at 2:45 pm

   anyway the latest bullsh*t from the little people is that Jacinda has no experience???

   after four years in the job and the dweebs are pushing this one?

   Jacinda is New Zealands Angela Merkel.

   no matter how hard the right wing meedja push and shove and try to snow kiwis under a blizzard of crassby tegtor toghma gorem slime the people of this country know what is best for them and it ain't the tories and their laissez faire devil take the hindmost trickle down puke.
   • Patricia Bremner 6.1

     8 August 2021 at 3:34 pm

     
7. Andre 7

   8 August 2021 at 4:34 pm

   Here's a good discussion piece around vaccine mandates in the US, and the ideas of freedoms and rights:

   https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vaccine-mandate-passport-freedom-liberty_n_610cd4d2e4b0cc1278b9fb08

   The virtual flag-waving, appeals to personal liberty, and warnings about fascism suggest there is something fundamentally un-American about vaccine mandates. But requirements to get inoculations have been around since the very first days of the republic, claiming broad support and withstanding legal challenges.

   This isn't because officials or judges are ignoring freedom. It's because they believe vaccination is a key to securing it. In fact, among those who support vaccine requirements today are some well-known conservative judges and libertarian scholars ― in other words, precisely the sort of people you would expect to protest government overreach most vociferously.

   What Liberals And Conservatives Say About Vaccine Mandates

   A basic justification for vaccine mandates is that your freedom doesn't include the freedom to endanger the rest of your community. The principle is a bedrock of democratic philosophy and the American legal tradition, with courts applying it to a variety of contexts including public health.
   • weka 7.1

     8 August 2021 at 4:38 pm

     tell me how you'd like to see the political process go of altering the NZ Bill of Rights. Also the Health and Disability Act. Probably the Privacy Act too.
     • Andre 7.1.1

       8 August 2021 at 4:47 pm

       Mind pointing out to me where in those bits of legislation there is language that would prevent implementing a vaccine mandate restricting the unvaccinated from airplanes, private businesses such as gyms, theatres etc?

       Especially where those would be stronger than section 70 of the Public Health Act 1956, that gives wide powers in public health emergencies?
   • AB 7.2

     8 August 2021 at 4:54 pm

     "your freedom doesn't include the freedom to endanger the rest of your community"

     Aye – in fact their freedom from a nasty virus depends on you being vaccinated. Just as your freedom from a nasty virus depends on them being vaccinated.

     So much of the sh*te we hear on this topic stems from a defective understanding of freedom. I have ranted about this before – but freedom is something that has to be constructed every day through collective obligations. It is not some mythological pre-existing magical thing that innately inheres in individuals.
     • Andre 7.2.1

       8 August 2021 at 5:06 pm

       Yep. Pretty much all freedoms start getting restricted when they start imposing risks or burdens on others.

       I have the freedom to get falling down drunk if I want to, anytime I want to, in my own home. Although if it became a problem for any of my kids living with me, there would be grounds for intervention.

       In a public bar, not quite so much, the staff have a few obligations to ensure I don't become a problem for other patrons.

       But if I am detected attempting to drive a car while in the state of being falling down drunk, then the consequences will be severe. Because of the risk of injury and death to the general public. The consequences are not as severe as they should be in NZ, but that's a separate topic.

       If I attempt to board public transport while in the state of being falling down drunk, it's also quite likely intervention will get called. Because of the risk of me becoming a problem to other members of the public.

       Rights always have limits when they start overlapping with other people's rights. In the case of the right to refuse the reasonable precaution of a safe and free vaccination, that runs into a boundary at the point of other people's right not to be unreasonably exposed to avoidable disease.
       • I Feel Love 7.2.1.1

         8 August 2021 at 5:28 pm

         My freedom to walk around town with no pants would be curtailed pretty quickly I would imagine.
         • Anne 7.2.1.1.1

           8 August 2021 at 9:51 pm

           Or carting a gun around and knocking off the occasional old lady would not be looked upon kindly.

           AB @ 7.2 is 100% correct. This freedom shite is so much gobbledygook. It smacks of inherent stupidity and the fact it is being advocated by right-wingnuts is no surprise.
8. weka 8

   8 August 2021 at 4:42 pm

   Highly recommended if you want to understand the gender criticial feminist position on the sex/gender wars.

   https://twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1424229145756766214
   • Anker 8.1

     8 August 2021 at 8:49 pm

     Thanks Weka
     • weka 8.1.1

       8 August 2021 at 8:53 pm

       👍

       would it be ok to email you about a post?
       • Anker 8.1.1.1

         9 August 2021 at 1:01 pm

         Absolutely would be fine for you to email me about a post.

         A problem though, my email address is an old one and the account is now shut down.

         If I replied to you with my current email address would you get it?

         In these debates it is really important to me that I remain annonymous for all the obvious reasons of what happens if you speak up. Would other authors be able to see my email address? Is there another way?
         • weka 8.1.1.1.1

           9 August 2021 at 3:35 pm

           yes, other authors can see it. I will have a think about another way, because anonymity is important.
           • Anker 8.1.1.1.1.1

             10 August 2021 at 3:42 pm

             • Might it be possible to make contact on the Aotearoa feminist website?
9. Muttonbird 9

   8 August 2021 at 5:52 pm

   David Carter gone from the board. Resigned, citing no confidence in the president.

   Gee, how long have National been infighting now? It seems like forever and this episode shows they have a long, long way to go before the internal war is over.

   Long may it continue!
   • Cricklewood 9.1

     8 August 2021 at 6:28 pm

     Hard to say who's happier… Labour or David Seymour….

     Perhaps longer term it works out for the right in an mmp environment…

     Act picks up the right wing rump… Nats get decimated and get reborn as a very centerist party with a Nikki Kaye type politician as Leader.
     • Muttonbird 9.1.1

       8 August 2021 at 9:29 pm

       Meh. Any National improvement will be at the expense of the false numbers ACT are currently enjoying.

       There is no left to right swing.

       An example of the ridiculousness of David Rimmer's publicity and marketing heavy style of politics is the position he took this week on Expo workers returning later this year. These people are going there to reach out to global business which I thought was a priority for ACT but no, the twerking sensation decided to use it as a stick with which to attack the government.
10. Jenny how to get there 10

    8 August 2021 at 7:53 pm

    We once thought we were sentencing our children and grandchildren to experience this, and that it wouldn't affect us.

    We are living through a new, horrible phase of climate change

    The warnings of scientists are no longer about some far off glaciers melting – the warming planet is creating havoc right before our eyes, says Pilita Clark.

    …..In the past four weeks alone, wildfires virtually burnt a Canadian village off the map after it shattered the national record with heat of 49.6 degrees Celcius. Floodwaters tore through German towns like a tsunami, tossing cars like corks.

    Terrified Chinese subway passengers stood in chest-high water as nearly a year’s worth of rain fell in three days.

    Much of this was predicted. Scientists have warned for years that a warming climate will lead to more weather extremes.

    Yet the frequency and severity of these events raise unsettling questions: could we be entering a period of non-linear climate change, where temperatures and extreme events do not increase smoothly as expected but instead come suddenly, more often and perhaps more powerfully?…..

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/climate-change-ipcc-report-global-warming-floods-fires-2080301?
    • Velcro 10.1

      9 August 2021 at 7:07 pm

      The tragic floods in Germany were nothing unusual, as numerous flood level markings on old buildings demonstrate. What is unusual is the covering of flood plains with houses and concrete and tarmac, thus increasing risk. The lack of foresight by the German government is disgraceful. While the Pacific Northwest had a heat wave, the midwest and eastern states were having colder than average conditions. And snow in southern Brazil destroyed much of the coffee crop.
      • Jenny how to get there 10.1.1

        9 August 2021 at 9:47 pm

        Hey Sticky Stuff,

        You may be right,

        But including links to back up your contention that the tragic floods in Germany, 'were nothing unusual',. might give your comment more credibility.

        For example:

        Germany floods: Dozens killed after record rain in Germany and Belgium

        BBC, 15 July, 2021

        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57846200

        Admitttedly the BBC (at least in this report), don't refer to any data sets that this rain was record breaking.

        But even if you are right, that markings on old buidings show that floods of this magnitude have occurred before, (and they probably have), that is not the full story.

        Climate change made extreme floods in Germany and Belgium more likely

        New Scientist, 16 July, 2021

        By Layal Liverpool

        The weather events that are thought to have contributed to extreme floods in western Europe are becoming more likely due to climate change, according to climate and meteorology researchers……

        https://www.newscientist.com/article/2284360-climate-change-made-extreme-floods-in-germany-and-belgium-more-likely/#ixzz732I9nxuT
11. Graeme 11

    8 August 2021 at 8:57 pm

    Well wadaya know… Right-wing, conspiracy beliefs linked to vaccine scepticism

    Psychology researchers have delved into what makes some New Zealanders more reluctant about receiving the Covid-19 vaccine – finding a link to right-wing beliefs, but only when in tandem with conspiratorial thinking.

    While new survey data suggests four in five adult Kiwis now either intend to get vaccinated or likely will – a record result likely reflecting a growing trust in vaccine safety – experts have still sounded concern that a social-media driven "misinfodemic" could undermine health efforts.
    • Ad 11.1

      9 August 2021 at 5:30 am

      And the traditional Left believe the state cures every crisis and is our only redeemer from our perpetual victimhood.

      Psychologists need to study the epistemic privilege of the Left.
      • Stuart Munro 11.1.1

        9 August 2021 at 10:52 am

        Meh – the state, having under Rogergnomics broken just about everything in the country, cannot be allowed to weasel out of its responsibilities by blaming its victims.
12. McFlock 12

    8 August 2021 at 9:19 pm

    Don't know if anyone's already shared this, but in lighter news Luxon seems to think "jacked off" means "angry".

    Apparently the leader-in-waiting (looking more and more like Edgar Ætheling by the day) has dropped the phrase a couple of times, so maybe Judith's "bottling" line really was an example of how the nats get even more out of touch when they try to speak like the hoi polloi.
    • bwaghorn 12.1

      9 August 2021 at 6:24 am

      Maybe it's common in the nat caucus room so he thought we'd all be getting some. !
13. Anne 13

    8 August 2021 at 9:57 pm

    I suspect he's getting mixed up with hacked off. Thinks the expression is jacked off. Not a good start to a stellar political career. Mind you Key was a word mangler too.

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS