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Open mike 08/08/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 8th, 2022 - 118 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

118 comments on “Open mike 08/08/2022 ”

  1. bwaghorn 1

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/129496019/blatant-exploitation-migrant-workers-packed-in-freezing-damp-rooms-for-150-a-week

    I can't believe this shits still happening, take everything these bosses have under the profiting from crimes act.

    • RosieLee 1.1

      These "employers" must be named, shamed and prosecuted. It's also interesting to note the nationalities of these exploiters. Deport them.

      • Stuart Munro 1.1.1

        deported

        That's only thing that will deter them.

        • Descendant Of Smith 1.1.1.1

          Has a poor track record yet MBIE still allows him to be an RSE employer.

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/66432024/businessman-fined-over-unpaid-wages

          A Marlborough businessman has been ordered to pay more than $22,000 in unpaid wages to a migrant worker, with an additional $10,000 fine, by the Employment Relations Authority.

          Ajay Gaur, owner of Marlborough businesses Vine Strength and SP 2007 Limited, was ordered to pay $22,716 to former employee Pushpinder Kumar.

          https://www.employment-law.co.nz/some-employers-and-employees-deserve-each-other/

          • Mac1 1.1.1.1.1

            And in 2015.https://www.mediacouncil.org.nz/rulings/ajay-gaur-against-the-blenheim-sun/

            Mr Gaur lost a media complaint against the Blenheim Sun.

            There is a group of ethical employers in Marlborough who do look after their RSE workers. The unethical and exploitative actions of some employers has many effects. Firstly, of course, it is a disgrace in itself. Secondly, some employers of the offending contractors do not seem to be concerned. Thirdly, local contractors have to compete with these rogues. Fourth, local wages and conditions are affected detrimentally. Fifthly, the local housing market is affected as housing is taken up by seasonal workers who are not housed in purpose built and satisfactory accommodation, but crammed into old houses, which are not brought up to sufficient standard. Some are, and the ethical group have set good standard here with their accommodation.

            A suggestion has been made by RosieLee at 1.1 to name and shame the contractors.

            I'd also like to know who the employers of these contractors are, who they supply and which brands are produced by exploited labour.

            Then those growers/producers could be shamed and boycotted. I am feeling a sense of shame just living in the same area, and have views of a plain full of vines with workers out there now in a very cold southerly having worked through one of the wettest July months in years.

            Labour has always been in short supply, even more now, but who would come to work in these conditions as supplied by such contractors and employees?

            • Descendant Of Smith 1.1.1.1.1.1

              I noticed the same with the slavery case over in the Hawkes Bay region. The orchardists using the contractor were not named. They were paying the contractor in cash as well which I thought had been stopped by IRD to ensure PAYE got paid.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.2

      New details have emerged in the case against Anesly Joy Samuel, who owns Romeeco Bakery, after the full Employment Relations Authority (ERA) judgement was released this week.

      Samuel was stung with a bill of more than $392,000 – contrary to initial reports the figure was $299,000 – after the Labour Inspectorate found a vast array of employment breaches

      One of the employees provided recorded phone conversations in which Samuel suggested he could have someone cut off a staff member’s limbs and harm his family.

      When suspicion fell on another man as an informant, the business owner told him ‘‘he needs to prepare for his parents’ funeral in Sri Lanka’’.

      Weeks later there was another call from an associate of Samuel telling the former bakery employee to drop the case, advising him ‘‘people were watching him and that it would be ‘very bad’ for he [sic] and his wife if [he] went ahead with the case’’.

      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/grossly-underpaid-workers-threatened-bodily-harm

      After months of silence, Mr Samuel’s partner, Wadduwage Nirosha Dilrukshi Perera, spoke publicly about the case this week for the first time.

      In a tearful interview from Knox Cafe, which the couple still owns, she staunchly maintained her partner’s innocence and claimed the three aggrieved employees had plotted against them.

      "They had a plan, a long-time plan. I feel so bad because I know how I treat them," she said.

      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/exploitation-migrants-revealed

      They also alleged Mr Samuel would swear at staff, and throw items around the kitchen after losing his temper.

      “In my last few weeks there I was just shaking the whole time.”

      https://www.odt.co.nz/business/bakery-environment-left-employee-%E2%80%98broken%E2%80%99

      Reckon I know who to believe ! The scumbag (if at all possible) should be booted out of NZ…..

  2. PsyclingLeft.Always 2

    National Party elects Sylvia Wood as new president

    She owns and runs an HR consultancy and is also a member of the Employment Law Institute and the Institute of Directors.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/472372/national-party-elects-sylvia-wood-as-new-president

    HR ? aka InHuman Resources. In my experience (long working career) By the Company and For the Company…Totally ! Employees? Shafted regularly by these slime. So …anyway true to the Blue form Ha !

    • Tiger Mountain 2.1

      Sylvia “would if she could”, ex Pres. Mr Goodfellow is still there anyway for a term as a Director on the NZ National Party Board.

      HR people are 99% company suck ups in my experience as a union site delegate and executive member, going back many years in various industries, they are basically flak catchers and crawlers of the first order.

      The natzos would be done for by now without their media life support system–Mi C**k skin, Heather DPA, Kate Hawkesby, Katherine Ryan, Fran O’Sullivan, Ryan Bridges and a score of others. Finance Capital do their bit too to keep National in play for obvious reasons as we have seen lately with Sirkey popping his head up again.

      The 2020 General Election was extraordinary for the fall of Michelle Boag, & Simon Bridges during COVID round 1, and departure of the talent NZ National did have, along with some of the “Don't you know who I am” brigade like Mr Falloon and others.

      • Jenny how to get there 2.1.1

        "Human Resources", says it all. Resources get it, not human beings. Consumables like coal, or oil, or natural gas, or bags of cement or flour,
        Consumable, expendable, replaceable, exploitable, profitable.

        Not human beings at all.

        As arch capitalist and nazi sympathiser Henry Ford once said, "How is it, when all I want is pair of hands, I get a human being along with it"

        An unwanted side product, that if he could have got away with it, Ford would have turned into soap.

        To deal with the unwanted human being that comes along with a pair of hands, just as they would for any other volatile resource, employers sought the professional services of specialist experts trained in the manipulation and channeling of this 'resource'.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1.2

        HR people are 99% company suck ups in my experience as a union site delegate and executive member, going back many years in various industries, they are basically flak catchers and crawlers of the first order.

        HR, while Company Focused, are mainly working for a very important person. Themselves ! Never mind their pretences, every action they do…..has that prime directive.

        Quite often…very NASTY people.

        I def relate to your battles against them. (been in some myself !)

        So Sylvia is a fit for the nats.

        Thing is, matey…..I really dont want the nat slime getting back in power. The clock…would go back in time so fast. All the things Labour have done for Workers….(particularly Youth/Apprentices etc) will be eroded.

        HOW to get these Young to Vote ? I am trying..my Utmost.

        Keep up the Fight !

    • Visubversa 2.2

      "Human Remains" people – IMHO – a bunch of overpaid 25 year olds with Polytech degrees in advanced prattery. In my last job, we are working hard in my area to get someone to do a checking job of incoming applications to ensure that the information required for a certain part of the job was complete before it was allocated. The job was not front facing – or safety critical. It dealt with Civil Engineering matters so appropriate experience was required. We tried to lure back – on a part time basis, a person who had retired 3 years ago after 15 years experience in the section. He had more than the required qualifications and experience. After some persuasion, he agreed. All was well until some idiot in HR said he had to take a drugs test. He told them to get stuffed. End of story. I left not long after.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.2.1

        He told them to get stuffed. End of story. I left not long after.

        Company End result? They keep HR. But lose two Valuable People. But at least with your self worth still Intact. Onya.

  3. alwyn 4

    The Government Ministers are really going to have to try and get their stories straight.

    On Morning Report today, just after 7am we had a story quoting Ms Sepuloni saying that the National plan won't work and then we had the Prime Minister telling us that the National Party plan was exactly the same as what the current Government was doing. Well if it doesn't work why are the current Government still doing it?

    I suspect Ms Sepuloni will get a rap across the knuckles. Don't ever contradict your Boss is the rule.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018852556/national-party-out-of-touch-with-welfare-plan-labour

    • aj 4.1

      National's benefit plan was put out for only two reasons. Deflect from the taxation policy debacle of last week, and keep them in the headlines.

      "don't spend it all at once"

      • Bearded Git 4.1.1

        I wonder in which of his 7 houses Luxon wrote the policy to attack beneficiaries.

        • Incognito 4.1.1.1

          He didn’t write it; he found it in John Key’s top drawer in the Beehive, with all the dirty finger marks and other stains from previous National Party Leaders – a forensic examination would reveal it is National’s DNA.

    • LibertyBelle 4.2

      I suspect Ms Sepuloni is auditioning for opposition.smiley

      • Bearded Git 4.2.1

        The latest Roy Morgan has a Lab/Green/MP government, and that is before Jacinda destroys Luxon in the campaign.

        • Robert Guyton 4.2.1.1

          The National Party strategists will be pouring over video from the House, looking for vulnerabilities in Jacinda's responses to Opposition questions, looking to train Luxon to apply his meagre skills to those weak points.

          Labour's strategists will be doing the same; looking closely at their Leader's performances, in order to plug those gaps; that is, so Jacinda can see them and prepare herself to counter Luxon's advances.

          The National Party strategists will not be trying to train Luxon to guard his own exposed bits, coz, not adroit or able enough to manage such a nuanced undertaking. Imo.

          • Mac1 4.2.1.1.1

            'exposed bits'? Please, Robert, spare us the vision. His bald pate is exposure enough…..

          • JO 4.2.1.1.2

            'so Jacinda can see them and prepare herself to counter Luxon's advances.'

            Gah! She's more than well prepared for that sort of carry on.

            • Robert Guyton 4.2.1.1.2.1

              He'll try to come in from the sun, like the kamikaze pilots did …

              … oh, hang on!

        • Alan 4.2.1.2

          Yes, the campaign

          Kiwi build – awesome result

          Merger of the poly techs – going so well

          Healthcare merger – bound to be a success based on the two results above

          Three waters – success assured!!

          Crime stats, – excellent!!

          • Robert Guyton 4.2.1.2.1

            Contrast with National's campaign –

            "Shambles, shambles, shambles, shambles, shambles, shambles…."

            Crickets…

            Small dogs yapping…

          • LibertyBelle 4.2.1.2.2

            They have the dead peoples vote though.smiley

            • Mac1 4.2.1.2.2.1

              LibertyBelle, you might have to enlarge on that statement?

              • Incognito

                Revenue Minister David Parker declined in Parliament to estimate how many dead people might have had the Cost of Living Payment paid into their bank accounts.

                He said it was “probably around the same number as deceased people’s bank accounts that get superannuation or unemployment or other payments – or perhaps even National Party pamphlets”.

                https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/129491190/cost-of-living-payment-paid-to-people-on-working-holidays-who-have-left-nz

                • LibertyBelle

                  I think David Parker has a similar sense of humour to minesmiley

                • Mac1

                  Yes, I heard the dead-pan Parker deliver that riposte in the House. We have some good speakers in the House at QT ('pop-corn time') especially.

                  • LibertyBelle

                    David Parker is one of the very few competent current labour party ministers. That he has a sharp wit is a bonus!

                  • LibertyBelle

                    Just to be clear, competence can be found without wit. For example Shane Reti is a highly intelligent and competent individual, but I wouldn't want to be trapped in a lift with him

                    Parker just happens to have both competence and wit. He's also not an ideologue, which helps.

                    Your link is good, I use a 'would I have a drink with them' test, and not many pass. Maybe Parker, Robertson (even though I don't share their politics), Seymour, Stanford. That would make a good night out.

            • Visubversa 4.2.1.2.2.2

              Is this out of the "Trumpist Dogwhistles 'r Us" publication for beginners?

          • Bearded Git 4.2.1.2.3

            Crime stats show crime is falling.

            https://www.justice.govt.nz/about/news-and-media/media-releases/nzs-largest-crime-survey-shows-burglaries-on-the-decline/

            3.3% unemployment is pretty impressive.

            Both the 3 waters and health reforms are necessary-the "do nothing" Key government should have done/started these.

            An almost record number of houses have been built in the last 2 years. This from StatsNZ:

            "The annual number of new homes consented in the year ended January 2021 was 39,881, up 5.8 percent from the year ended January 2020, Stats NZ said today. The all-time high for any 12-month period was 40,025 in the year ended February 1974"

            Labour has added significantly to the stock of state houses while Key/English sold them off to finance tax cuts while lying about it.

            https://teara.govt.nz/en/graph/32421/total-state-housing-stock

            and so on and on and on…..

            • Mac1 4.2.1.2.3.1

              Well said, Bearded Git.

            • alwyn 4.2.1.2.3.2

              You do realise that the number of consents isn't the same thing as the number of houses built don't you?

              You can't really, unless you are a true Labour Party loyalist, claim that the evidence for your claim that "have been built in the last 2 years" is really demonstrated by a statement that "new homes consented in the year" is up.

              After all, on that basis you will probably tell us that 40,000 or so houses have been built by KiwiBuild because that was the number that Twyford said would be built by now.

              And I guess you will tell us that Chippies' claim that merging the Polytechs will save money is true even if the loss has doubled after his move.

              • Mac1

                How many consented houses are not built?

                How many non-consented houses are built in New Zealand?

                I suspect that there is a somewhat high correlation between consent and actuality…..

              • KJT

                Considering that building consents are so bloody expensive these days, a legacy of Nationals leaky homes, and they now have a time limit, not many consents aren't actioned.

                • Poission

                  The rate of both compliance completion certificates and electrical connection (icp) has decreased,this is due to both apartments and infill housing requiring demolition of existing property(the ICP is the best metric for actual available units) in Auckland the ICP rate is around 68% of the previous years consents.

                  In addition there is the high cost of building in NZ with m2 rate increasing by around 30-40% in the last 40 months,even worse for high rise apartments with the cost doubling to around 5k m2.This latter being very problematic for Lab/greens as policy is to increase the rate of high density housing,increasing costs and debt.

                • LibertyBelle

                  'Nationals' leaky homes? I don't think so.

                  "The leaky homes crisis is an ongoing construction and legal crisis in New Zealand concerning timber-framed homes built from 1988 to 2004 that were not fully weather-tight. "

                  The problems actually began with the (re) emergence of monolithic cladding with no cavities during a Labour government in 1987. They were made worse by the introduction of kiln dried timber under National in 1996, which survived throughout the first 6 years of the third Labour government.

                  Both major parties are culpable for this mess.

                  • Incognito

                    You don’t say, “the third Labour government”!? The call of the 70s is strong with you conservatives.

                    I do like the way you seem to insinuate that both major parties are equally culpable, as it suggests that you have a distorted view of the past. This is not odd considering that you’re still stuck in the 70s.

                    Don’t forget the deregulation introduced by National 😉

                    • LibertyBelle

                      History not of any interest to you?

                      Edit – ooops yes I see what I did. Apologies, fourth Labour government.

                  • Brigid

                    The use of kiln dried timber did not exacerbate the leaky homes crises. Boric treated timber will rot if not protected against the elements just as quickly as kiln dried timber will. The purpose of kiln drying is to prevent borer infestation just as Boric treatment us.

                    Interior framing of 'leaky' houses rots because it gets wet. The treatment type for interior framing is not designed to prevent rotting because the framing will never get wet if the cladding is fixed properly ffs.

                    • KJT

                      That is actually incorrect. I've pulled enough houses apart, and fixed enough leaky homes, to see the difference between boric or tanilised timber and untreated. Boric doesn’t rot anywhere near as fast as untreated timber, in real life. Not theory

                      The problem was Nationals privatisation of building inspections. Canny old tradesmen that used to be council building inspectors before Nationals privatised cowboys took over would have spotted developing problems before it got so far.

                      Lucky when I was building, being a suspicious old bugger, we still flashed sealed and drained our claddings properly, no matter what the theoreticians said.

                • LibertyBelle

                  "I've pulled enough houses apart, and fixed enough leaky homes, to see the difference between boric or tanilised timber and untreated. Boric doesn’t rot anywhere near as fast as untreated timber, in real life. Not theory'

                  Here we agree. You might know the answer to this, but my understanding was that kiln dried timber was introduced so pine could be harvested younger? Is that correct? I've been told by builders that harvesting the timber younger also made the timber less 'strong'?

                  "The problem was Nationals privatisation of building inspections."

                  Here we disagree. If that was true, we wouldn't have leaky buildings dating back to the 1980's.

              • Craig H

                https://www.stats.govt.nz/experimental/experimental-building-indicators-march-2022-quarter/

                Code of compliance is a proxy for completed builds and not all territorial authorities provide data to Stats NZ, so it's an experimental indicator as it says at the link.

                That said, the second table/graph on that page shows pretty clearly that the numbers have been on the upward trend once the effects of the GFC were past and the Christchurch earthquake rebuild picked up. Not surprising given our population has also increased significantly since those events (net migration over 400,000 plus natural population growth).

        • LibertyBelle 4.2.1.3

          See Alan's comment below.

        • Stuart Munro 4.2.1.4

          She would never be so cruel.

          She will strive not to smile while he destroys himself.

        • LibertyBelle 4.2.1.5

          Right on cue.

          "Political poll: National and Act can form government, Labour at lowest since 2017"

          I sense an election bribe coming on. I wonder if Labour can top interest free student loans?

    • Incognito 4.3

      It’s obvious that you hadn’t listened to it and/or that your head was still under the covers; there was no such contradiction at all and this was all wishful thinking from you. Perhaps you can spot the key difference between what the Labour Government is doing and what the National shambles pretends to be doing?

      • alwyn 4.3.1

        Has Ms Sepuloni been heard from again?

        Something like "What I meant to say was that I completely agree with the Prime Minister".

        • Incognito 4.3.1.1

          Who was being interviewed on Morning Report? What/where was the contradiction? Hint: it’s all in your head.

          • alwyn 4.3.1.1.1

            Are you saying that RNZ were incorrectly quoting Ms Sepuloni when they said, immediately before the interview with the PM that "Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni says there's no evidence the plan would work, and it turns young people into villains."?

            That was said, by the RNZ presenter, immediately before the interview with the PM who basically claimed that the Labour Government was already doing all the things that Luxon was proposing. That is in spite of Sepuloni's quoted statement that they don't work.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 4.3.1.1.1.1

              Thanks for letting us know what Corin Dann said, but your 'case' would be better made if you were quoting the Minister – must be difficult for you.

              It was the "same old, same old, really, with regards to turning these young people into the villains and acting like they don't want to work", Sepuloni said.

              "In reality, the vast majority do, they just need some support to make that happen, and we've been giving them that support."

              https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/472399/national-s-welfare-plan-over-simplified-and-out-of-touch-opposing-parties-say

            • Incognito 4.3.1.1.1.2

              Context is everything and thus is checking that what you think you heard is actually correct. Of course, your bias is as strong as ever.

              Those who have been receiving welfare for more than a year – but then stay off for a year – would be eligible for a $1000 payment.

              Minister of Social Development Carmel Sepuloni said there was no evidence that would work.

              It was the “same old, same old, really, with regards to turning these young people into the villains and acting like they don’t want to work”, Sepuloni said.

              “In reality, the vast majority do, they just need some support to make that happen, and we’ve been giving them that support.”

              https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/472399/national-s-welfare-plan-over-simplified-and-out-of-touch-opposing-parties-say

              So, what I’m saying is: listen carefully, know the context, and engage your brain.

              There is no contradiction!

              QED

  4. Robert Guyton 5

    "Several of the protesters could be seen displaying Z symbols – which are regarded as denoting support for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine – either on their skin or clothing."

    Great effort from the dags that trail in Tamaki's wake.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300655526/tensions-between-rival-groups-at-antigovernment-protest-in-auckland-domain

  5. timbeau 6

    With the US Senate having now passed the Inflation Reduction Act, I'm curious from those in the know about whether there will be good ripples to assist reduction of carbon emissions in NZ? Awaiting the House vote, of course, but how much impact will $360 billion passed into the US economy have on prices and uptake of solar panels, turbines, etc?

  6. joe90 7

    Life's tough.

  7. Herodotus 8

    Recently it was announced that kiwibuild ceilings had increased from $650k to $860k.

    19A Freeland Ave Mt Roskill ballet has just come out. "These brand new terraced homes are priced at $860K, offer 99m2 and include the following features:…"

    Who has justed pocketed $210k ??? When the tender for subcontractors went out the ceiling for Kiwibuild was $650k and the successful tender for the contractor was such that the $650k sales price ceiling could be achieved. The subbies were on strict completion dates AND contract $ value. From my contacts NO sub contractor was paid above the tendered amount. Land price was known. So Megan Woods who has pocketed this $210,000 on each 3 bdroom and why was this allowed ?????

    https://www.kiwibuild.govt.nz/about-kiwibuild/home-price-caps/

    https://roskilldevelopment.co.nz/for-sale

    • joe90 8.1

      So Megan Woods who has pocketed this $210,000 on each 3 bdroom and why was this allowed ?????

      You could ask Minister rather than JAQing off. Her contact details are online.

    • Herodotus 8.2

      The full email for those that seek proof of any claim and just fro those without a calculator the increase in price has meant ONLY a $3.36MILLION windfall for someone that as of the 19 July 2022 before the ceilings were raised was not there !!!

      More KiwiBuild homes, brought to you by Neilston Homes, will soon be available in the Mount Roskill neighbourhood. This new release will consist of 16 three-bedroom homes located at 19A Freeland Avenue, Mt Roskill, and will be exclusively available to eligible KiwiBuild buyers.

      These homes will be sold by ballot. The ballot will open on 11 August 2022, and closes on 18 August 2022 at 11:59pm. The ballot will be drawn as soon as possible after the close date and successful entrants will be notified.

      These brand new terraced homes are priced at $860K, offer 99m2 and include the following features:

      · Only 7km from Auckland CBD

      · Homestar 6 rating

      · 12 month warranty period

      · 3 generous sized bedrooms

      · Open plan living downstairs opening to a deck or patio

      · Close to public transport services

      Ballot Open: 9:00am, Thursday 11th August 2022

      Ballot Closed: 11:59pm, Thursday 18th August 2022

      Sign up for 19A Freeland Avenue updates

      Visit the Neilston Homes Information Centre

      <

      p style=”text-align:center”>If you’re keen to have a look around the Neilston Homes Information Centre, it’s located on 23 Freeland Ave, Mount Roskill, Auckland. Open Saturday & Sunday between 11am and 3pm.

      • Mac1 8.2.1

        Who owns the houses now, before sale? Who set the price? Do they get the profit? Is this how the market works?

        Or should the government set the price?

        If the price was set at $200,000 less, as you seem to be wanting, how long do you think the house would remain before going on the market for $200,000 more?

        • Herodotus 8.2.1.1

          The government underwrites the development
          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/389669/underwrite-triggered-more-unsold-kiwibuild-houses-bought-by-govt
          https://www.interest.co.nz/property/103493/kiwibuild-stock-take-govt-currently-26-million-out-pocket-buying-and-selling
          From my dealings there are no escalation clauses. I am not "wanting" the price to be $200k less. I am commenting that at the time the contract was signed to deliver this Kiwibuild the desired price point was maxed at $650k. So all calculations were based on that. So who pockets this $210k windfall??? And for your understanding THE GOVERNMENT DOES SET THE PRICE !!!!!

          From below link "21 Our objective is to deliver quality, well-located homes that are inherently affordable, by virtue of their modest design, efficient land use and innovative production. That is, the market price for the homes should reflect the cost to build (including land) and an appropriate development margin, but should nonetheless still meet our desired price points."

          When developers and contractors tender for Kiwi Build work that was well before construction commenced. Fixed $$ contracts. Now the price magically increased as I mentioned before land price was already set, subbies tenders were accepted (fixed price) so they was no change there that was when the max level was $650k.

          https://www.hud.govt.nz/assets/Urban-Development/f093fc6b80/Proposal-Commencing-the-Implementation-of-KiwiBuild.pdf

          • Mac1 8.2.1.1.1

            So the government sets the price.

            Who gets the profit? The government?

            Who then builds $3.6 million worth of houses and so on. Is that how it works?

            • Herodotus 8.2.1.1.1.1

              YES the government SETS the price – That is why we are progressively being told of the lift in Kiwi Build prices from $600k to $650 now $860k. Pity our minister has no idea as to what affordability is. $860k for a 1st home, she has NO IDEA of reality.

              The government underwrite/tenders for completed developments. The developer then pockets any profit between the price sold and the cost to build. In this case $3.6M extra profit thanks to a minster's announcement, IMO she knew this was going to happen and JUST happened to make an announcement before these properties entered for tender. Yet the under writing from the government was 1-2 years ago, very questionable devious behaviour.

              https://www.kiwibuild.govt.nz/about-kiwibuild/information-for-developers/

              • Incognito

                You’d better quickly e-mail Megan Woods because she forgot to increase the price of 14 other homes becoming exclusively available by ballot one day earlier to eligible KiwiBuild buyers. We, the Taxpayers, would miss potentially miss out on another $2.94million, which would be a real shame, wouldn’t it?

                https://www.kiwibuild.govt.nz/available-homes/show/72/coronation-rise

                Both Davidson and Kellow noted that the new price caps were below the median property price, suggesting that KiwiBuild would continue to offer houses relatively cheaper than what the open market was providing.

                https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129329077/kiwibuild-will-be-more-expensive-but-housing-experts-say-thats-actually-good

                • Herodotus

                  She is crap at her job and understanding of the industry. And after 6 years (2012) in opposition telling us that Labour had the solutions. We find out that they made the Kiwibuild targets up was 50,000 but then decided 100,000 was a better number. Only to find out that a reset was in order. In other words Labour did not know and making FALSE promises and solutions, but to lie is ok in your books ??

                  But don't worry evidence is not what you are seeking with your 🙉🙊🙈 view on the world, and it is ok to WASTE taxpayer $$ that could be utilised into our health system, good to see your values !!!!. Perhaps you should email Megan to tell her what a wonderful job she is doing despite contrary evidence ???

                  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113641010/how-kiwibuild-fell-down-and-whether-anything-can-be-saved-from-the-wreckage

                  • Incognito

                    LOL! You’re all over the place (aka unhinged). Woods reset KiwiBuild about 2 months after becoming Housing Minister, which suggests that she was and is actually very good at her job.

                    That ‘windfall’ is not going to go up in smoke in a bonfire; it will be used to build more KiwiBuild homes. The Government could set an even higher sale price but would then make it even harder for eligible KiwiBuild buyers, so they compromised. And it is not across the board, as my first link has already shown.

                    Please stop your whining.

                    • pat

                      There is no 'windfall' for the gov to reinvest in housing from increased caps …unless you want to count GST.

                      It does however place further support under overpriced housing.

                    • pat

                      Wherever it comes from it demonstrates a lack of understanding of how Kiwibuild operates and what its objectives are supposed to be.

                    • Incognito []

                      I’m sure it does. Why don’t you fill in some of the blanks for us and rebut the claims made by Herodotus?

                    • pat

                      It is an underwrite mechanism whereby the Gov agrees that any unsold properties that meet the kiwibuild criteria will be purchased by the Crown at the agreed price level so as to enable financing from the private sector….the fact they are (currently) below median pricing levels should be expected as first home buyers are not usually purchasing in the middle of the market but at entry level.

                      Raising the caps (especially in a declining market) simply puts a floor under prices as the gov is financially supporting both sides of the deal….contrary to the stated goal of more affordable housing.

                    • Herodotus

                      Are you for real ?? "The Government could set an even higher sale price but would then make it even harder for eligible KiwiBuild buyers, so they compromised. Year $860k is really making many eligible 1st home buyers. Perhaps (like most Labour MP's) you need to enlarge your social circle from those elite privileged have try to get an understanding of what most kiwi's daily experiences are.

                      Your understanding of Kiwibuild is at best extremely limited. Educate yours before before throwing darts randomly.

                      I am sorry that you considering this as whining, I see from your comments that like many ministers you have no idea, and some advice Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

                    • Incognito []

                      My social circle is hardly “elite privileged”, and you have already heavily speculated about my “🙉🙊🙈 view on the world” and my “values”, talking about “throwing darts randomly”.

                      However, I have indeed limited understanding of KiwiBuild, but even I know that an eligible KiwiBuild buyer is not necessarily a first-home buyer. The criteria clearly state that you must

                      be a first home buyer or previous homeowner

                      If there are two or more buyers, regardless of the number of dependents, you must have a total before tax income from the last 12 months of $200,000 or less.

                      https://www.kiwibuild.govt.nz/assets/Downloadable-pdfs/KiwiBuild-Eligibility-Criteria-July-2022.pdf

                      The asset test was dropped, so an eligible KiwiBuild buyer can have a few million in the bank.

                      Why don’t you educate yourself before you start throwing darts randomly into your own feet in your mouth?

                  • Herodotus

                    "However, I have indeed limited understanding of KiwiBuild, but even I know that an eligible KiwiBuild buyer is not necessarily a first-home buyer." – Yet your link from stuff refer ONLY to 1st home buyers !!!

                    Please re read my initial comments – They were centred on how subbies have been screwed by their contracts. At the time when the consent and the under writing were signed – was at a time when the $650k cap was in place. Everyone was working within this constraint to deliver the finished product for $650k. I know subbies and their staff delivered on their contractual obligations, and in some cases it cost them more than what they were paid; as they had to cope with increased costs, difficulty with covid, managing staff and issues with material availability, yet these additional costs were not able to be recovered. Then the price increases by $210k. So as I asked Who pocketed this? The developer ?? Because again, those small sub trades paid in terms of both financial and in their health. But you appear to miss that when throwing the darts !!!!

                    • pat

                      It will depend on the terms of the contract…I would expect that any development agreed to prior to the raised cap will be subject to the previous cap as agreed whereas subsequent contracts will be at the increased caps…so there will likely be no windfall, unless the Kiwibuild lawyers are incompetent…there may be a contingency clause .

                      It is important to remember it is an underwrite and only comes into effect IF the property is unsold.

                      Subbies will be treated as they always have been.

                    • Incognito

                      Yet your link from stuff refer ONLY to 1st home buyers !!!

                      So??? Did I write that Stuff piece? Do you take everything you read in the newspaper at face value???

                      I doubt that you can turn your biased head around it, but this from the Stuff link again (did I write it???):

                      The KiwiBuild programme relied on developers partnering with the Government to build houses for residential sale. Kāinga Ora would underwrite a portion of the houses being build, so developers could access financing. The Government itself is not building the houses.

                      And

                      Hours after the announcement, Kellow and NZMS announced $600 million worth of loans would be made available for developers to start KiwiBuild projects over the next few months.

                      I hope that answered your question, but you can always play dart the donkey with your darts.

                    • Herodotus

                      Inco still at your games of trying to divert from the point I was making !!!

                      We can see that there are those out there who couldn't give a crap about those who are suffering and I gather the government has rewarded the developer by increasing the kiwibuild ceiling. From "Private developers still make their normal margins on Kiwibuild houses and the government builds in an administrative margin of about 1 percent, Twyford said, so will sell them "basically at cost" As I have stated and you have ignored those supporting the build (subbies) who have been held to still deliver on a price. Yet the developer had also at the time entered a price that was to be delivered $650k. Subbies had no right to escalations, yet it appears the developer is selling at close to market rates – They are selling for $950k 3 bedrooms in the same development. But what do you care ? I believe is a valid concern that no one within govt has industry experience so has NO understanding to how unfair the kiwi build is to sub contractors.
                      I gather unlike you have not been involved in a kiwi build sub tender ? I have some industry involvement in the subject.

                      https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1806/S00712/twyford-hopes-kiwibuild-will-drive-down-construction-costs.htm?from-mobile=bottom-link-01

  8. Jilly Bee 9

    In a moment of abject weakness one evening last week I received a cold call from N Z Herald asking me to reconsider my subscription to their tawdry rag with a wee sweetner of a rediculously cheap price for the first 4 weeks, which I reluctantly accepted as there are some articles I would like to read, particularly by Simon Wilson. I've had a daily glance at it and I haven't been surprised by the same old, same old anti government rhetoric and have pretty much decided not to continue at the end of the 4 week period. Imagine my surprise this morning stumbling onto this opinion piece by the Christchurch Newstalk ZB morning host – I did wonder for a while whether he had walked into a door on his way to the studio, but as I hadn't heard of or ever listened to him, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/opinion-national-party-policy-is-any-job-better-than-no-job/35IIIA5L2QV6QS3U7AESXDKSNY/

    • Incognito 9.1

      If you’re based in Auckland, get an Auckland Library card, as explained by Stephen D (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19-07-2022/#comment-1900983).

    • Anne 9.2

      From the link:

      This morning, party leader Christopher Luxon told Mike Hosking on Newstalk ZB that these sanctions would start with state control of beneficiaries' spending and then eventually their unemployment benefit would be out the window if they didn't toe the line and get a job.

      That's called Communism isn't it? Or something out of Mao Tse Tung's 'Little Red book".

      That kind of simplistic thinking went out the door decades ago. He's a complete ignoramus – a dinosaur.

      • LibertyBelle 9.2.1

        No. Communism is when the government takes everything you own and uses it to suppress you. Putting conditions around what the government gives you for doing precisely nothing is called good policy.

        • Anne 9.2.1.1

          An arrogant right winger with a sense of entitlement and no sense of humour has found it's way onto this site. Waste of time and space.

          • LibertyBelle 9.2.1.1.1

            Contrary to what some people think, I don't believe state dependency is a good thing. This government has turned a huge swathe of the population into being beneficiaries of state support. Some of those people are dead. Others were embarrassed to get it. Whatever, all state handouts should have conditions.

            • Incognito 9.2.1.1.1.1

              Whatever, all state handouts should have conditions.

              Just as well they all do. You do sound like a RW propagandist spouting meaningless waffle that’s deliberately misleading aka disinformation.

  9. observer 10

    Same old National party … pick the candidate, and hope nobody finds out.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300656643/national-mp-sam-uffindell-asked-to-leave-prestigious-kings-college-after-violent-nighttime-attack-on-younger-boy

    I should add if we were all judged by our actions as school kids then many of us would be apologising, me included.

    But that's not the issue here. It's the adult decisions that matter. The failure to front up, to tell the story before the media (and before people vote). So, so stupid – and so very National.

    • woodart 10.1

      being in a group of 16 yr olds bashing up a sleeping 13 yr old in an expensive private boarding school is a sign of many personalitiy defects. which has he overcome?

    • William 10.2

      Not just National, possibly it's just more common from the right of the political spectrum. Don't forget David Garret from Act, he had apparently told Rodney Hide of his conviction prior to the election but nothing was disclosed to the public. That certainly accelerated Rodney's demise as leader.

  10. Adrian 11

    Hypocrisy eh.. the missing middle name in the National….Party.

  11. Reality 12

    Sam Uffindell's description of himself being "stupid" when he was involved in beating up a younger student at Kings College in my mind very much downplays what was actually vicious bullying by a group attacking a much younger boy.

    National really has history in the second rate candidates it picks. Do these candidates think they are such a cut above others they are entitled to behave however they like?

    • observer 12.1

      It was nasty behaviour but I don't think that is the main focus here. National would like it to be a story about school bullies decades ago, when it really should be about National's behaviour now.

      To recap: Uffindell told the party hierarchy before he was selected. The party then told the public … nothing.

      So either they thought it didn't matter, or they thought it wouldn't come out. Then Luxon was either not told, or he was told and has kept quiet.

      Both options are very bad for National.

      • Barfly 12.1.1

        That incident could even be regarded by a National Party selection committee as a positive – as a willingness to 'punch down' seems to be a prerequisite for a National MP.

      • AB 12.1.2

        Luxon would have said: "Hey listen Sam, now that you are an MP you can deliver, have a plan, power up the vision, follow through and get results at scale. No need to whack kids with bed legs, you can make laws that have the same effect. Here in Nashnool we call it social investment."

        • Anne 12.1.2.1

          You forgot the final bit: "its far more important to go forward not backward. Move on to the next chapter. After all we boys will be boys." followed by slap on back.

      • RosieLee 12.1.3

        yes

    • ianmac 12.2

      Bullies/thugs like Uffindell seems to have been, seldom have just one offence. And surely you wouldn't be sent down for one isolated event. Any other victims out there?

  12. Adrian 13

    Is this Goodfellows last goodbye present to the National Party, another one of his exceptionally dodgy picks out of the damaged goods bin?. The crime here is not the historical stupidity and quite frankly appalling lack of judgement and restraint for even a 16 year old, but most alarmingly to paraphrase the Jesuits and Sheila Lashlie, “ Show me the boy and we’ll show you the man.”, but after being told by the Nat recruiters, Goodfellow no doubt, to clean up anything in the past he has the temerity and lack of honestly to lie about it.

    I do notice as well that the rejunification of the Nats is going to plan by the new president looking old enough to have been exhumed from some medieval crypt.
    No, I’m not being ageist, I’m 72, I don’t think anyone over 60 should be allowed to stand because it is not our world anymore and we old buggers should not be extending our reach further into the future, we’ve fucked it up enough as it is.

    ,

    • Visubversa 13.1

      Bugger that – I am 72 as well and I am not about to hand over the future to a bunch of kids with purple hair and pronouns who cannot make even the simplest of decisions without crowdsourcing for the information on social media.

    • LibertyBelle 13.2

      "Is this Goodfellows last goodbye present to the National Party, another one of his exceptionally dodgy picks out of the damaged goods bin?."

      Oh no. I have it on excellent authority that there is one more candidate that Goodfellow has lined up. I believe it is the Duke of York?smiley

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