Open Mike 09/02/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 9th, 2018 - 179 comments
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179 comments on “Open Mike 09/02/2018 ”

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  1. Ed 1
    9 February 2018 at 6:23 am

    Maybe, just maybe this means we shouldn’t be dairy farming in the Canterbury Plains.

    To combat the hot summers and dry periods irrigation is installed on the farm and he says, “Dairy farming in Canterbury would be a struggle without an irrigation system.
    “Dairy farming in this area wouldn’t exist.
    “We couldn’t milk cows in this area without irrigation so it is absolutely critical that we have these machines.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/100713719/irrigation-an-essential-tool-for-canterbury-farmers

    Maybe, just maybe this means we should be farming sustainably.

    Can the World Find Solutions to the Nitrogen Pollution Crisis?
    More and more nitrogen keeps pouring into waterways, unleashing algal blooms and creating dead zones. To prevent the problem from worsening, scientists warn, the world must drastically cut back on synthetic fertilizers and double the efficiency of the nitrogen used on farms.

    http://e360.yale.edu/features/can-the-world-find-solutions-to-the-nitrogen-pollution-crisis

    Maybe, just maybe this is connected to our destruction of the planet.

    Generating three centimeters of top soil takes 1,000 years, and if current rates of degradation continue all of the world’s top soil could be gone within 60 years, a senior UN official said on Friday.
    About a third of the world’s soil has already been degraded, Maria-Helena Semedo of the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) told a forum marking World Soil Day.
    The causes of soil destruction include chemical-heavy farming techniques, deforestation which increases erosion, and global warming. The earth under our feet is too often ignored by policymakers, experts said.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-60-years-of-farming-left-if-soil-degradation-continues/

    • tc 1.1
      9 February 2018 at 6:33 am

      Enough of that annoying science with those pesky facts please.

      It gets in the way of the plunder and anyway for every credible scientist the dairy industry has a contrary opinion to counter it, already included in the price of milk.

      Gosh it’s as if dairying should only be done where rainfall is high like Waikato and taranaki but hey fed farmers backing national know best.

    • Morrissey 1.2
      9 February 2018 at 7:24 am

      Maybe, just maybe this means we shouldn’t be dairy farming in the Canterbury Plains.

      Nor, as a host on RNZ’s Country Life admitted in a rare moment of candour in December, should they be dairy farming on the flood plains of the Bay of Plenty….

      https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17-12-2017/#comment-1427213

      • Ed 1.2.1
        9 February 2018 at 7:29 am

        Greed.

        • tc 1.2.1.1
          9 February 2018 at 9:18 am

          Combined with a total disregard for the environmental impacts of trying to turn a dry plain that was never suitable for dairy into a lush meadow.

          Wait till the water tables they’re draining start pulling up mud and/or get to the levels of nitrates and other residuals which make it not fit for purpose.

          Then the hand will be out whining along the way with fed farmers feeding them the lines as per usual.

    • Psycho Milt 1.3
      9 February 2018 at 7:27 am

      “We couldn’t milk cows in this area without irrigation so it is absolutely critical that we have these machines.”

      Farmer logic!

    • Ed 1.4
      9 February 2018 at 7:46 am

      Hope this means the government will reduce the herd significantly.
      By 80% or more.
      That is if we’d prefer an environment over cows’ milk.

      “Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor says putting on hold changes to Fonterra’s enabling legislation will allow a broader review of New Zealand’s dairy sector and whether it is adding enough value to the nation’s biggest export commodity.”

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11990690

      “New Zealand needs to get rid of 80 per cent of its dairy cows because dairying is dirtying our water.

      That was the message delivered to the annual meeting of Wanganui Federated Farmers by its former president.

      Rachel Stewart, president of the group for four years in the early 2000s and guest speaker at Friday’s annual meeting, is an “ardent critic” of farming.
      Ms Stewart, recently crowned Opinion Writer of the Year at New Zealand’s premier journalism awards, began her talk by saying she loved farming – but dairy farming was responsible for 80 per cent of the degradation of New Zealand waterways and Federated Farmers needed to stop denying it.”

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11648542

    • savenz 1.5
      9 February 2018 at 10:10 am

      Exactly they are crazy to dairy farm in drought prone areas. Even investing in irrigation relies on water to fill which relies on rain. Far better to work with the land conditions and farm something that requires less water such as sheep/forestry that can be relied on in the future.

      Also where is the user pays? Why should the tax payers be funding private farms irrigation schemes.

      The whole thing is crazy.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.6
      9 February 2018 at 10:55 am

      Maybe, just maybe this means we shouldn’t be dairy farming in the Canterbury Plains.

      There’s no maybe about that – that’s exactly what it means. If the farming can’t survive within the limits imposed by the natural water flows then it shouldn’t be there.

      Maybe, just maybe this means we should be farming sustainably.

      Technically, we don’t have an option. Farming unsustainably must result in a crash of the environment.

      Over the next few decades, if farming continues the way it is, food production will decrease resulting in famine for billions of people.

      And the only thing people will be able to do when that happens is say Oh, Malthus was right.

  2. Morrissey 2
    9 February 2018 at 7:12 am

    What a silly old fool Brendan Telfer has become. Even the dolts on
    three’s A.M. show were staggered by his ignorance this morning.
    A.M., three, Thursday 8 February 2018, 7:20 a.m.
    Duncan Garner, Amanda Gillies, Mark Richardson, Melody Robinson, Brendan Telfer

    Brendan Telfer has long been a figure of fun over on Radio Sport. Callers and hosts routinely deride him as a joyless old fogey, and rail against him (often unfairly) as “politically correct.” As well as Radio Sport, Telfer appears every Friday morning on RNZ National, where Kathryn Ryan treats him as an elderly sage, and never contests anything he says.

    No such luck for Telfer this morning, however. It’s Halberg Awards time, and so he was wheeled on to talk about likely winners. Also invited on was former Black Fern Melody Robinson. Telfer’s first mistake was to scoff at the prospects of the Black Ferns, and to announce, with his trademark straight face, that the Americas Cup was “bigger than rugby”. Robinson, clearly offended rather than just amused by the silly old git, turned her back on him.

    A bit later, after Robinson had praised the kayaker Lisa Carrington, Telfer kept digging:

    BRENDAN TELFER: No disrespect for Melody, but—

    MELODY ROBINSON: [glaring with anger] I’m sitting beside you!

    [Awkward laughter from Garner, Gillies, and Richardson]

    Telfer, rattled, continued to chunter on, but he’d clearly lost the room. In an atmosphere of tension, he eventually stopped talking, with nobody listening seriously, and it was time for a commercial break. Telfer, flustered, left the studio in a hurry, but Melody Robinson remained in her seat. The host wasn’t going to let the moment disappear….

    DUNCAN GARNER: [chortling] Mel’s staying put. She’s not leaving the studio!

    • Ed 2.1
      9 February 2018 at 7:23 am

      Hardly a surprise Team New Zealand won when fools like Telfer have helped make this decision in the past.

      On one side…….a rich sport team populated by wealthy, globalist men with big toys.
      On the other…..a grassroots women’s sports team

      With the misogyny that exists amongst sports commentators and reporters, who would not be surprised?

      I heard Telfer on that show as well and was appalled at the way he spoke over Melody.
      Chuntering on…..such a perfect description of the old git.

      Wonder if Ryan will give him a free run this morning to do his sexist thing.

      • James 2.1.1
        9 February 2018 at 8:31 am

        It’s hardly surprising team New Zealand won _ given the amazing feat they pulled off. Amazing and well deserved winners.

        • One Two 2.1.1.1
          9 February 2018 at 9:45 am

          “Amazing feat”…

          “Amazing and well deserved”..

          48 year old man is ‘totes amazed’…

          Oh James, you’re so far behind where 48 years of life should have prepared your mind to be…

          Agitating on a left wing blog site, telling fabricated porkies….

        • savenz 2.1.1.2
          9 February 2018 at 10:19 am

          I’m sure that if other sports were funded by the taxpayer and billionaires they also would be international winners.

          Yep, they won the cup, but it’s a step too far to steal the harbour of Auckland to celebrate and make the long suffering rate payers of Auckland already paying more than 1/2 the near 1.5 billion budget of the Auckland Transport each year also pay for a billionaire yachting village for Aucklanders Super yachts. (Because of course we all own super yachts, sarcasm)

          • James 2.1.1.2.1
            9 February 2018 at 11:06 am

            I think you will find that they were funded to a lot lower level than the other teams.

            Also if you got off your high horse you would see that the 000’s of kiwis that enjoy the viaduct and wynard quarter are also not super yacht owners either. Yet it is still an extremely fun and pleasant place for people to enjoy.

            • savenz 2.1.1.2.1.1
              9 February 2018 at 8:31 pm

              Yes Aucklander’s do enjoy the viaduct and wzynard quarter, so don’t want that public space hijacked.

        • mikes 2.1.1.3
          9 February 2018 at 5:44 pm

          “Well deserved winners”

          Pfft…

          More like spineless wankers I reckon. They could have all taken a united stand and said that they would not be competing in the regatta as it was being held in a tax haven and they don’t support tax havens. This would have made major, major news throughout the world and may have made people stop and think.

          They could have become heroes to millions but simply didn’t have the balls to make a stand. gutless greedy cowards one and all. (IMHO)

  3. Son Of Don 3
    9 February 2018 at 7:55 am

    So once again the needs of the perpetrator are put ahead of the victim; a person murdered and never able to live life again:

    “This morning Justice Cull QC began her sentencing by acknowledging Puna would receive a second strike for the offending after being convicted of aggravated robbery in 2016.

    This meant he was subject to a sentence of life imprisonment without parole unless it was manifestly unjust, and Justice Cull QC said she had determined it would be manifestly unjust.

    She accepted Puna had been deeply affected by the offending, as shown in his remorse following Beale’s death, and acknowledged his youth, cultural background and level of intoxication.

    Puna had “positive prospects for rehabilitation” and acknowledged he wished to address his anger and alcohol issues, she said.”

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/life-term-senseless-murder

    Puna should have received a second strike and if 14 years minimum is the price we put on taking another life then there are problems with our judiciary

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1
      9 February 2018 at 11:14 am

      It is better for him and for us if he can be rehabilitated and returned to having a productive life.

    • weka 3.2
      9 February 2018 at 11:29 am

      If the appropriate response to taking someone’s life is maximum punishment, why not just execute him then?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.3
      9 February 2018 at 11:50 am

      “Tough on crime” = more recidivism = more crime.

      You don’t care that your pathetic vengeance fantasies will cause more crime, because your ethics are in the gutter. If you had to do the work judges do you’d start crying.

      • Chuck 3.3.1
        9 February 2018 at 6:54 pm

        A genuine question OAB…

        If someone committed a serious violent act against a member of your family that left them scarred for life or even dead, would you still want to go easy on them?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 3.3.1.1
          9 February 2018 at 7:00 pm

          No, I’d want to smash the nearest National Party trash I could find, because your policies create crime and misery.

          • Chuck 3.3.1.1.1
            9 February 2018 at 7:24 pm

            I would do the same, although substitute “National Party trash” for the perpetrator…

            • One Anonymous Bloke 3.3.1.1.1.1
              9 February 2018 at 7:36 pm

              However, I learned not to be ruled by my ‘wants’ a long time ago. What kind of pathetic right wing loser would I be if I thought that satisfying my vengeance fantasies would be of any use to anyone?

    • Gabby 3.4
      9 February 2018 at 1:11 pm

      The judiciary do seem to have decided that the strike thing is manifestly unjust. Not in a conspiratorial way of course.

  4. Cinny 4
    9 February 2018 at 8:00 am

    While nat MPs especially judith are complaining about the restructuring of charter schools, wailing about how it will hurt the most vulnerable, maybe they should take a minute to think.

    national tried and tried to shut down one of NZ’s most important schools for the most vulnerable, Salisbury School, a boarding school for girls with disabilities, girls who had been abused sexually, mentally, physically. Girls who had been through hell. Our community and many others, especially Tracey Martin fought tooth and nail to keep Salisbury School open, it saved girls lives.

    So judith get off your high horse, national is a bunch of freaking hypocrites, you are the ones that failed the most vulnerable, shame on you and your party, shame on you for wanting schools with unqualified teachers, shame on you for bullying the vulnerable Salisbury School girls and their families.

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.1
      9 February 2018 at 8:52 am

      +++Cinny.

      There is rightful concern in the disability community with these residential schools and as always there’s a temptation to throw the good out with the bad. To save dollars National declared a fatwah against Salisbury, strenuously disregarding the very positive role it plays.

    • James 4.2
      9 February 2018 at 8:57 am

      I agree with you on the school that they wanted to close.

      However – there is no need for charter schools to be closed – some of them are doing extremely well and helping students get results they simply were not in mainstream schools.

    • Chuck 4.3
      9 February 2018 at 9:49 am

      “So judith get off your high horse, national is a bunch of freaking hypocrites, you are the ones that failed the most vulnerable, shame on you and your party, shame on you for wanting schools with unqualified teachers, shame on you for bullying the vulnerable Salisbury School girls and their families.”

      If we all agree Salisbury School should never have been told to close down…then the same applies to Charter schools.

      Or is it ok when Labour with the help of the Greens close down schools that help the disadvantaged?

      • Draco T Bastard 4.3.1
        9 February 2018 at 11:30 am

        If we all agree Salisbury School should never have been told to close down…then the same applies to Charter schools.

        Failed logic – as can be expected from a RWNJ.

        Salisbury School shouldn’t have been shut down because it was doing its job efficiently. Charter schools should be shut down because they’re not.

        • Chuck 4.3.1.1
          9 February 2018 at 1:56 pm

          “Charter schools should be shut down because they’re not.”

          Like this one then?

          “South Auckland Middle School (SAMS) began in 2014 with only a four month lead-in and $1.1 million to cover all establishment costs. A comparative state school startup would have been approximately $27 million and an 18 month staffed lead-in. SAMS has flown since day one and currently has 180 students and approximately 70 on wait-lists. We teach the New Zealand curriculum, have had a very stable student body with minimum transience, and in 2016 showed an 18% improvement for our Year 7 and 8 students in their national standards, in contrast to the national pattern. At SAMS, 93% of our students are Māori or Pasifika.”

          • Draco T Bastard 4.3.1.1.1
            9 February 2018 at 2:07 pm

            A comparative state school startup would have been approximately $27 million and an 18 month staffed lead-in.

            [citation needed]

            And, no, Kiwiblog is not a relevant citation.

          • Crashcart 4.3.1.1.2
            9 February 2018 at 2:57 pm

            That reads like you took an add the SAMS put out and used it as a source for their performance. Surely you wouldn’t do something so stupid.

            Their report card for 2016 states that they have still not met all obligations.

            http://www.ero.govt.nz/review-reports/south-auckland-middle-school-29-08-2016/

            • Chuck 4.3.1.1.2.1
              9 February 2018 at 4:51 pm

              “That reads like you took an add the SAMS put out and used it as a source for their performance. Surely you wouldn’t do something so stupid.”

              Surely you are not implying that Alwyn Poole of the Villa Education Trust is just making shit up? Now that would be stupid of you.

              “Their report card for 2016 states that they have still not met all obligations.”

              I assume you read the whole report?

    • Enough is Enough 4.4
      9 February 2018 at 10:12 am

      I agree with you Cinny.

      In the same respect I can not see any solid reason to close down the Charter schools.

      When they were proposed by ACT I was very sceptical about what was going to happen. However in my view they have been a good by and large.

      Willy and Kelvin have very strong views on this so it will be interesting where it ends up.

      • Grantoc 4.4.1
        9 February 2018 at 11:09 am

        Hipkins is just repaying his debts to the teacher unions by closing charter schools.

        He is in their pockets on this issue.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.4.1.1
          9 February 2018 at 11:27 am

          He’s keeping an election promise. And better still, if the Charter Schools don’t cooperate they’ll be issued with ‘termination for convenience’ notices and closed anyway. That should act as a huge deterrent to any future wannabe National Party collaborators.

          So he’s doing what I expected of him, this makes me happy, and your bitter tears are a bonus.

          • David Mac 4.4.1.1.1
            9 February 2018 at 11:49 am

            I can’t get past the kids, nor should a government that places children front and centre in matters relating to poverty.

            Just as with Salisbury School, aren’t we taking our eyes off the prize that matters if we’re using their lives as leverage for or against a political party or union interests?

            I suspect there is a healthy helping of propaganda accompanying the good news we read about student application and outcomes at charter schools but I can’t get away from thinking we should be kicking them to the kerb or not on a decision primarily rooted in: Are they genuinely giving the tail-end kids a jolly good leg-up in life?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 4.4.1.1.1.1
              9 February 2018 at 12:15 pm

              No, they aren’t: eg: that “healthy dose of propaganda” you mentioned. In any case, privatisation of education must be resisted at all costs.

              Resisting privatisation is far more important than hurting the National Party, although they’re both worthy goals.

              The government needs to put teachers back in charge, instead of motel owners.

              • faroutdude …
                9 February 2018 at 2:26 pm

                You really are a nasty piece of work.
                You don’t care if they benefit the children failed by State Schools.
                You don’t care if it is a way to achieve better life outcomes for PI & Maori children.
                Isn’t there something in your treasured UN Human Rights Declaration about the right to education?
                Can only imagine it’s your own self-loathing that makes you hate so much.
                POS

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  9 February 2018 at 2:46 pm

                  If children are being failed by state schools then that needs to be looked at, researched and addressed through the state system. What we don’t do is throw those children at private schools running on unproven ideology or, even worse, ideology proven to be damaging.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  9 February 2018 at 2:58 pm

                  Yawn. Running your mouth at me won’t help you sweety. It isn’t a way to achieve better outcomes for anyone. I’ve explained why repeatedly, but just once more for the hard of brain: the single most influential factor in education outcomes is household income.

                  Lifting people out of poverty (which you refuse to even measure) will have a far more beneficial effect than privatising education, so which one of us is the piece of shit?

                  Your right wing Madrassa failed everywhere else in the world and don’t work here either. The teachers’ unions want us to more closely emulate the Finnish model, and I agree with them.

                  In the meantime, ding dong the witch is dead 😀

              • Hornet …
                9 February 2018 at 3:07 pm

                “In any case, privatisation of education must be resisted at all costs. ”

                1. Why? Private and non-state agents have provided education for many years. Why should the state have a monopoly?
                2. Virtually all of the partnership/charter schools are non-for-profit.
                3. There are currently hundreds of non-government, private and non-profit schools/centres providing excellent results across the education sector, from ECE onwards. Labour is not proposing shutting any of those.

          • Grantoc 4.4.1.1.2
            9 February 2018 at 2:32 pm

            Oh Deary me (or should I say teary me). Back to your usual nonsense OAB; projecting your inadequacies onto me.

            BTW it still doesn’t change the fact that Hipkins is nothing but the teacher union’s puppet and will do their bidding come what may.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 4.4.1.1.2.1
              9 February 2018 at 2:50 pm

              My bidding too. Don’t forget he’s following exactly what I’ve always advocated 😈

          • Enough is Enough 4.4.1.1.3
            9 February 2018 at 2:41 pm

            Fuck the election promise. They are good at breaking them. Look at TPP.

            I have no idea why there is such opposition to this alternative form of education which is being provided to those who do not fit into the state school box for whatever reason.

            I can not find one case of these new schools being anything other positive.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 4.4.1.1.3.1
              9 February 2018 at 2:52 pm

              I have no idea

              You should have: the information’s all available. Can’t use Google? David Farrar didn’t explain it properly?

            • Crashcart 4.4.1.1.3.2
              9 February 2018 at 3:04 pm

              What I have been looking at seems to indicate that few if any are meeting their contractual requirements to supply accurate data on how they are performing for these kids. I would consider supporting them if they could actually prove that they are providing positive out comes rather than just expelling difficult kids and keeping those who are performing.

              The fact that these schools aren’t required to have qualified teachers is concerning as it shows that they are already focusing on profit over quality. Add to this the governments strange decision to exclude them from National Standards (I am a fan of consistency, not National Standards) unlike all public schools and it reeks of a cover up.

              • Hornet …
                9 February 2018 at 3:35 pm

                Hi Crashcart

                I am a relatively new defender of partnership schools because I know families for whom these schools have been transformational. If you are genuinely interested, you can get more information on their performance at http://www.partnershipschools.education.govt.nz/. Also, each PS is required to publish its own results (eg http://www.vanguard.school.nz/student-success/), and the MofEd holds data on the schools performance.

                There has been a huge amount of misinformation spread by opponents of partnership schools, and it is based on ideology taking precedence over genuine concern for educational outcomes for children the state has failed. I would ask you to read this article https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/05/09/25916/a-rough-school-day-for-labour, that shows Labour’s considerable duplicity over these schools for quite some time. It is a good indication of what these schools are up against.

                • Crashcart …
                  9 February 2018 at 3:55 pm

                  I guess I don’t read that the same way you do. It seems to me that Willie Jackson thought because he was in favour of charter schools and he is oh so special he was going to be able to just shoot his mouth off and change policy. That got a firm response from Hipkins and the actual Labour position never changed. They are happy for Charter schools to stay open if they employ qualified teachers and teach the national curriculum. That seems reasonable to me.

                  Is Jackson a dick? Yes

                  Was communication bad? Yea

                  Have they been 2 faced? well it would seem the policy has remain consistent. This is also one article from May last year that has the Labour position lining up with what they are doing now so rather than duplicitous it would seem they have been publically consistent in words and actions.

                  It would be good if you could provide an article that backs up the misinformation claim you made because the one you linked to doesn’t actually discuss Charter Schools and how they are performing in any depth. The only somewhat reliable info I have been able to find is on the ERO web site where it seems they are not reporting required information and are not meeting their role requirements in some cases.

                  As I say I don’t ideologically have an issue with them. I do think they should have to meet minimum standards for the benefit of the children involved. Especially when there is the ability for those involved to make a profit off of them.

                  • Hornet …
                    9 February 2018 at 4:44 pm

                    “It seems to me that Willie Jackson thought …”
                    I would agree with you if it was just Jackson. But it wasn’t. There have been comments from:

                    1. Peeni Henare.
                    2. Kelvin Davis (“Labour’s Te Tai Tokerau MP Kelvin Davis has promised he’ll resign before the two charter schools in his Northland electorate are closed…” https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95039162/labour-to-tweak-special-character-schools-save-charter-schools-from-closure).
                    3. Chris Hipkins (On Monday, responding to Davis’ pledge to resign over them, Hipkins said “tweaks” would be made so there weren’t any “unnecessary barriers” for new special character schools.” – same source),
                    4. Jacinda Ardern, who said in parliament that there was a ‘pathway’ to these schools remaining open.

                    This is not consistency. It is plain dishonesty.

                    “the one you linked to doesn’t actually discuss Charter Schools and how they are performing in any depth. ”
                    The partnership schools link has links to each schools quarterly and annual reports, but i would also look at the ERO reviews, which are available for any school at http://www.ero.govt.nz/. The Vanguard review is at http://www.ero.govt.nz/review-reports/vanguard-military-school-29-08-2016/. I won’t pre-empt your reading – I’d much rather people make up their own minds, but this does refute some of the more outlandish claims about a lack of accountability. And if you’re looking for a shortcut, you can read this http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/302550/ero-reports-on-three-charter-schools.

                    “It would be good if you could provide an article that backs up the misinformation claim…”
                    I don’t have a single article about that claim, but I have even better…a real example:
                    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1608/S00187/tracey-martin-spreads-misinformation.htm

                    And by way of further information…two of the most common claims made against PS’s are that they don’t employ qualified teachers, and that they don’t follow the NZ curriculum. Were you aware that neither of these claims are correct?

                    “I do think they should have to meet minimum standards for the benefit of the children involved. ”
                    I totally agree. The irony is that in the place of compassion towards children who the state system has failed, the opponents of PS’s put their own ideological prejudice.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      9 February 2018 at 6:58 pm

                      Irony. A right wing apologist pretending validity.

                    • Hornet …
                      9 February 2018 at 10:01 pm

                      Oh I see anon. You hit and run posts about whatever takes your fancy, abuse other contributors, and then refuse to engage. I hadn’t realised you were so shallow.

            • Hornet 4.4.1.1.3.3
              9 February 2018 at 3:19 pm

              “Fuck the election promise. They are good at breaking them. ”

              It certainly looks that way.

              http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/07/labour-won-t-close-my-charter-school-willie-jackson.html

              Was it Kelvin Davis who promised to resign if either of the Whangarei Partnership Schools were closed?

              And what about the PM’s claims in Parliament that there was a ‘pathway’ the these schools remaining open? All lies, it would seem.

              The fact is that children are doing better in these schools than they did in the state system, and it appears that is unacceptable to labour and the teacher unions. Why? Who knows.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                9 February 2018 at 6:54 pm

                It’s because you’re lying, just like Groundhog and Mordecai.

                • Hornet …
                  9 February 2018 at 9:53 pm

                  That’s precisely the sort of reaction I expect from those who oppose Partnership Schools. Irrational.

                  • Muttonbird …
                    9 February 2018 at 10:01 pm

                    There is a pathway.

                    The schools just have to become integrated special character and the owners drop their demands for bulk funding. They must use qualified teachers and pay them the going rate. Otherwise they are free to use special character to help kids who, for whatever reason, haven’t done well at the local school.

                    That of course is another and very big argument.

                    • Hornet …
                      9 February 2018 at 10:44 pm

                      “The schools just have to become integrated special character and the owners drop their demands for bulk funding.”
                      What demands? How do these ‘demands’ differ from any other school?

                      “They must use qualified teachers…”
                      They do now.

                      “…and pay them the going rate.”
                      They do now.

                      “Otherwise they are free to use special character to help kids who, for whatever reason, haven’t done well at the local school. ”
                      That is precisely what they are doing now!

                    • Muttonbird …
                      9 February 2018 at 11:10 pm

                      They want a lump sum from the taxpayer to distribute as they please. This is how charter schools make money of course, they ‘distribute’ money into their own pockets.

                      They do use some qualified teachers but they are currently not bound to.

                      Ditto, they are not bound to pay teachers on the state scale so more money for the owners.

            • Venezia 4.4.1.1.3.4
              10 February 2018 at 12:45 am

              Check out the failed Whangaruru Charter School set up at huge taxpayers expense which included an 81 hectare farm. What happened to the valuable farmland when it was closed? According to the contracts set up for charter schools, the private owners retain the property rights. What a rip off of the taxpayer!
              The public should not be funding these private schools at higher funding rates than state schools. They claim their “success” ( few have demonstrated reaching agreed targets in their contracts) is because of smaller class sizes. Why should public funding privilege privatised education when state schools are running down because of nine years of underfunding?

          • james 4.4.1.1.4
            9 February 2018 at 4:23 pm

            “So he’s doing what I expected of him, this makes me happy, and your bitter tears are a bonus”.

            So you support the deputy leader of Labour quitting over this? (Assuming they actually close one of the schools in Whangarei?

      • Cinny 4.4.2
        9 February 2018 at 3:40 pm

        Registered Teachers please and thank you, schools not run on a business model/as a company.

        • James 4.4.2.1
          9 February 2018 at 3:56 pm

          So why does the deputy leader of labour say he will quit if they close either of the one in Whangarei?

          • Cinny 4.4.2.1.1
            9 February 2018 at 4:12 pm

            Not sure James, am interested in knowing the same, will have a google later to see if we can find out.

          • Cinny 4.4.2.1.2
            9 February 2018 at 5:57 pm

            James, I found out some more info and there’s nothing to worry about, I know are a supporter of Salisbury School just like many of us, as you’ve voiced your support before for Salisbury 🙂 kudos on that.

            It’s a bullshit narrative that’s happened in an attempt for the opposition to gain traction, let’s face it they are in the media atm for all the wrong reasons (ie leadership etc).

            Easiest way to spin a bullshit narrative to the public, exploit a common ground vulnerability, in this case education, but it could be health etc. Remember to hand pick the info, pull on heart strings if possible, weave that web of delusion with threads of misinformation.

            Kelvin supports schools that are performing well, as anyone would especially in their own electorate.

            If any “charter schools’ close down, that’s on their CEO and Board of Directors, it’s up to them to make the changes in order to stay open as a ‘School of Special Character’. IMO No doubt Kelvin would support those CS’s in his zone to make the transistion, so would any MP a the school was performing well.

            All they have to do is improve their current situation, ie ensuring all teachers are registered, be governed by a BOT instead of a BOD etc among other things.

            It’s a big storm in a teacup. Spot the missing dialogue used as part of the closure narrative in the text belollololooooo

            Article 23 July 2017 RNZ.
            “So if they were to close they would no longer exist, that would be a bottom line for me, so the fact is they can exist as special character schools, that’s the bottom line to me.”

            Mr Davis said the Labour Party wouldn’t close schools that were performing well.


            The following day in Stuff 24 July 2017

            On Monday, responding to Davis’ pledge to resign over them, Hipkins said “tweaks” would be made so there weren’t any “unnecessary barriers” for new special character schools.

            That could include allowing schools to have more than one special character, which would make it easier for some Maori and Pacifica-targeted schools, he said.

            In the end it’s really up to a schools board to make decisions on whether they want to close or not re said topic. I wonder how much the BoD’s at the charter schools are paid……

            Standby for the 6pm News

  5. eco maori 5
    9 February 2018 at 8:21 am

    Morning Rumble you guys give me a sore face lol I admire the way you let the Papatuanukue /World know you respect your ladies and give them Mana enough said Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 5.1
      9 February 2018 at 8:33 am

      Breakfast show that rise of people with need for help with mental problem will have a direct link to all the PEEEEE thats in New Zealand Ka kite ano

  6. Muttonbird 6
    9 February 2018 at 8:29 am

    The narrative that legislating for warm, dry, healthy rental homes is somehow reducing the rental stock is being exposed. Three landlords speak here:

    One looks a decent sort and accepts her role as providing a service to the community – well done her.

    Another is disgruntled at the increase in notice period and the scraping of depreciation – he can fuck off quite frankly. Sold his houses to either another investor or first home buyers so they are still lived in and that’s a win because that wanker is now out of the game.

    It’s the third which is most troubling though and indicative of the wild west of housing in this country under light regulation. This little scumbag also is annoyed at having to provide warm, dry, healthy homes for families and is threatening to take the lot to airbnb. This type of anti-social thinking is the real reason numbers of available rentals have plummeted.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/101215231/landlords-fear-and-loathing-of-the-new-zealand-rental-market

    New Zealand has housing issues – time for the government to pull finger and make sure as many houses as possible are actually lived in!

    • mikes 6.1
      9 February 2018 at 5:55 pm

      I know you shouldn’t judge a book by it’s cover…….but…. is it just me or does the third one actually look mean spirited?

    • ropata 6.2
      10 February 2018 at 12:08 am

      Time for legislation of AirBNB type arrangements as well. Landlords love to circumvent the law. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/101259878/From-290-a-week-to-4000-a-month-boost-from-joining-Airbnb

      • Muttonbird 6.2.1
        10 February 2018 at 12:16 am

        What shocked me is that Susan Edmunds has that article up as normal, legitimate practise to follow. She encourages it! Calls herself a property journalist.

        There’ll be no analysis of the housing problem from people invested in the problem, like Edmunds. A decent and fair government is going to have to do something, soon.

        • ropata 6.2.1.1
          10 February 2018 at 1:37 am

          An example:Detroit Quietly Bans AirBnB

          A new zoning ordinance that quietly went into effect this week has residents trying to figure out what comes next for Airbnb’s presence in Detroit. Many hosts have received notices that the city has outlawed Airbnb for R1 and R2 zoning. Curbed Detroit reports:
          The new zoning ordinance apparently went through the Planning Commission and City Council in 2017, and went into effect this week. The text added to the amendment states: “Use of a dwelling to accommodate paid overnight guests is prohibited as a home occupation; notwithstanding this regulation, public accommodations, including bed and breakfast inns outside the R1 and R2 Districts, are permitted as provided in Sec. 61-12-46 of this Code.” The vast majority of Airbnb units in Detroit are in R1 and R2 districts. These do not include places like lofts, apartments, or larger developments.
          Airbnb has issued a statement saying: “We’re very disappointed by this turn of events. Airbnb has served as an economic engine for middle class Detroiters, many of whom rely on the supplemental income to stay in their homes. We hope that the city listens to our host community and permits home sharing in these residential zones.”

  8. Ad 8
    9 February 2018 at 9:07 am

    If I get the time I will generate a specific post on this, but in the meantime , this is an analysis of what the security state of the world looks like between countries with the US in full retreat:

    https://www.securityconference.de/en/discussion/munich-security-report/munich-security-report-2018/

    Some highlights from the report include:

    – An opinion poll commissioned by the MSC and McKinsey shows that a majority of Europeans want to have their armed forces to be deployable beyond their national borders, preferably around the world.

    – Calculations by the RAND Corporation compare the strength of NATO’s and Russia’s military power in the Baltic States in case of a short-notice confrontation. Russia outnumbers NATO’s rapidly deployable combat units in terms of artillery and infantry by far, while NATO possesses air superiority.

    – The Vienna Center for Disarmament and Non-Proliferation demonstrates the severe impact a cancellation of the INF treaty could have. The projection shows that Russia’s INF missiles could likely reach every major NATO/US base and nuclear weapon storage sites in Europe.

    – New data provided by the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS) shows the significant expansion of China’s infrastructure in the South Chinese Sea as well as the increasing global military footprint of China.

    – Previously unpublished data by the International Institute for Strategic Studies show the military expenditures and procurement priorities of select African countries. The data show that patrol boats and helicopters, for example, are in demand, whereas there is no procurement contract for systems like submarines, cruisers, destroyers, frigates or corvettes.

    – The James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies and the Nuclear Threat Initiative provide an assessment of the state of the North Korean nuclear program and an analysis of what a cancellation of the Iranian nuclear deal would mean.
    Unpublished projections by UNEP show the correlation between drought and low intensity conflicts in a world map.

    The state of ‘what is’ ain’t too pretty, but we knew that.
    If you get through it over the weekend, you’ll see it’s good to have wide and fresh analyses that bring a lot of strands together, less tainted by the ambit of US interests.

    The good hard thinking afterwards is, as ever, ‘what can we do’

    • Exkiwiforces 8.1
      9 February 2018 at 12:37 pm

      Cruisers are little a bit old hat and really the only countries that can afford them are the US Navy and Russia with its existing fleet of Cruisers which were built during the 70’ and 80’s. Most countries now use Destroyer in lieu of Cruisers as most are after the “utility of force” than having a single use platform.

      MERICS paper on the South China Sea is a good read and in a nut shell China’s expansion into the South China Sea is due the US not maintaining a active presence in the area the US was booted out of the Philippines, in turn allowed the Chinese to move in.

      The Baltic Counties and including Finland and Sweden are very concern at Russia ability to mount its Zappia Exercises in very short time. These countries do believe that these Russian exercises will lead to a some short of invasion as the US and NATO are like chalk and cheese atm. The way Russia is playing atm is like the old story of the “Boy who cried Wolf” one two many times.

      One last thing and this to Ad, was my response to your thread NZDF and Climate Change was passed on to you as I really have no way of contacting you other than though here?

  9. adam 9
    9 February 2018 at 9:21 am

    Capitalism is in trouble, because it can’t help itself…

    http://www.lauraflanders.com/f_word_drking_and_the_ram_superbowl

  10. james 10
    9 February 2018 at 9:48 am

    Hipkins moves to close charter schools:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/101287757/government-moves-to-scrap-national-standards-and-charter-schools

    Lets assume that some of the schools dont agree with Hipkins and they get issued with a ‘termination for convenience’

    Will be interesting to see who the next deputy leader of Labour would be (Andrew Little?) since Davis promised to resign if either of the charter schools in Whangarei close

    https://www.facebook.com/KelvinDavisLabour/posts/1614807051884469

    • Carolyn_Nth 10.1
      9 February 2018 at 9:54 am

      Good on Hipkins and Labour. All schools should get funding according to their needs, and well trained and qualified teachers.

      Semi-privatisation is not the way to go for all NZ’s children.

      • Chuck 10.1.1
        9 February 2018 at 10:17 am

        “All schools should get funding according to their needs, and well trained and qualified teachers.”

        That’s your problem you think of it in terms of “schools” and not the individual pupils and what may be best for their needs.

        Just as Salisbury caterers for a specific type of student, so do Charter schools.

        • Carolyn_Nth 10.1.1.1
          9 February 2018 at 10:22 am

          Wrong. As someone who has taught in schools for several decades in the past, you make totally wrong assumptions, based on nil evidence in my comment.

          The needs of the schools, are based on the underlying needs of all the students – as individuals and collectively.

          A good teacher, and a good head teacher, is aware of all the needs of individual students – it’s part of what teacher training is about – and of schools policies, etc.

          I’m not even sure what you are on about with respect to Charter Schools.

          • Stephen Doyle 10.1.1.1.1
            9 February 2018 at 10:30 am

            You’re right Carolyn, the money allocated to Charter schools would be better spent on providing PD, and teacher aides.

          • Chuck 10.1.1.1.2
            9 February 2018 at 10:49 am

            “A good teacher, and a good head teacher, is aware of all the needs of individual students”

            Agree…so why close down a school/s that are producing great results?

            “I’m not even sure what you are on about with respect to Charter Schools.”

            I suggest you visit a Charter school then and educate yourself.

            For the record I have (visited a Charter school) and seen pupils who have failed in the mainstream, thrive and succeed in an environment that was tailored to their needs.

            However, NZEI wants them gone…they do not conform and must be destroyed.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.1.2.1
              9 February 2018 at 11:37 am

              Yes, it’s great news, especially since Hipkins is treating them with such contempt as to demand their obedience or he’ll close them anyway. That’ll make any future attempt to privatise education that much harder.

              I’m loving it.

            • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1.2.2
              9 February 2018 at 11:41 am

              Charter schools are a waste of resources. A many have pointed out – if state schools had been funded just as well as charter schools they could have done better.

            • You_Fool 10.1.1.1.2.3
              9 February 2018 at 11:51 am

              Its good to see you have great reading comprehension… The existing schools will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis and the ones that actually work will be kept open as character schools. So those that actually do what they say will stay open and be brought into the system to ensure they are not a waste of money. Those that are not doing what they say, and/or are not an efficient use of our tax money, will be shut and the taxes sent to more effective avenues for helping children…

              I would have thought that ensuring that our tax is spent effectively and efficiently would sit well with national and act

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                9 February 2018 at 12:26 pm

                kept open as character schools

                …that will no longer be private companies. That will no longer be allowed to employ unregistered random wannabes. That will be under the direct control of the Ministry.

                • Chuck …
                  9 February 2018 at 12:45 pm

                  Even if that results in a negative outcome for the children involved?

                  Just to remind you OAB of the segment that Charter schools help: Māori, Pasifika, learners from low socio-economic backgrounds and learners with special education needs.

                  Below is a key reason why students that struggle in the mainstream can flourish in a Partnership school.

                  “Partnership Schools have greater freedom and flexibility to innovate and engage with their students in return for stronger accountability for improving educational outcomes.”

                  This is the school I know and have visited (a friends daughter attends).

                  http://www.vanguard.school.nz/about-us/staff-profiles/

                  Have a look at the teachers and tell me they are still “random wannabees”.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    9 February 2018 at 12:52 pm

                    …stronger accountability…

                    Seriously, aren’t you even a little bit embarrassed to be so easily duped?

              • Anne …
                9 February 2018 at 12:27 pm

                I would have thought that ensuring that our tax is spent effectively and efficiently would sit well with national and act.

                Only when it is advantageous to themselves. Spending it effectively on the education of children from lower socio-economic backgrounds (don’t hear that expression much now) is not one of them.

              • Chuck …
                9 February 2018 at 12:33 pm

                “So those that actually do what they say will stay open and be brought into the system to ensure they are not a waste of money.”

                The key words there are “brought into the system”.

                The kids that attend Charter schools were failed by the “system”

                “to ensure they are not a waste of money.”

                If it’s just about the money then would you have wanted Salisbury School closed as well then?.

                The average cost for wraparound service is around $27,000 per student verse at one stage the Salisbury cost of $215,000 per student.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  9 February 2018 at 12:40 pm

                  The kids that attend Charter schools were failed by the “system”.

                  Correct: the National Party in particular, by exacerbating and refusing to even measure poverty, when we know for a fact that household income is the single most important factor in determining education outcomes.

                  They also underfunded state schools to the extent that there are serious problems in the school properties portfolio.

                  You might not be able to see through all their lies, but don’t expect everyone else to suffer your affliction.

                  Oh, and don’t forget that Vanguard simply expelled the kids it failed.

                • McFlock …
                  9 February 2018 at 12:42 pm

                  Most of the kids that attend charter schools were indeed failed by the system – because “I can’t deal with this child, let’s give them to someone with no qualifications and a profit motive to fudge results” is the epitome of failure.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  9 February 2018 at 1:15 pm

                  Salisbury School supporters fight closure

                  But Labour MP Damien O’Connor says it’s the Government’s doing.

                  “The restrictions around access by the ministry, instructed by the minister, means it’s almost impossible for parents to get their girls into this school,” he said.

                  So, the National government forced the numbers down and the cost per pupil up so as to produce the desired result of freeing up “this prime, 10-hectare site”.

                  It looks like some developer donated huge amounts to National to get that site.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                9 February 2018 at 1:08 pm

                I would have thought that ensuring that our tax is spent effectively and efficiently would sit well with national and act

                They do seem to be more concerned with private investors making a profit from government spending than better efficiency.

              • Cinny …
                9 February 2018 at 3:49 pm

                + 100% well said “You_Fool”

            • Carolyn_Nth 10.1.1.1.2.4
              9 February 2018 at 12:15 pm

              Do not conform to what?

              As an ex member of NZEI, I know that as much as anything, the union wants the best education possible for all children.

              Their web site says this loud and clear:

              We’re stronger together for children and learning
              …
              We come together as NZEI Te Riu Roa to fight for quality public education—because every child is worth it.

              • You_Fool …
                9 February 2018 at 2:14 pm

                People who are looking to exploit children don’t want people who know what they are doing in terms of education to have a say…

          • Ed 10.1.1.1.3
            9 February 2018 at 6:27 pm

            Did someone give this idiots a talking point about Salisbury School?
            Do they have an ounce of initiative or a gram of original thinking?

      • Hornet 10.1.2
        9 February 2018 at 4:56 pm

        “Semi-privatisation is not the way to go for all NZ’s children.”

        Carolyn are you aware that:

        1. Virtually all Partnership Schools are not-for-profit?
        2. ECE is delivered in NZ in a large part by non government providers, including many for profit.
        3. That in 2014, 28,000 NZ students attended private schools?
        4. That in 2016 there were 87,500 NZ students in integrated schools?

        Are you suggesting that these all close?

    • mac1 10.2
      9 February 2018 at 12:09 pm

      When Judith Collins referred to “poor little victims of a big, fat, mean union” she lost the argument.

      For her, this is about dogma and ideology and hatred of unions. There are some interesting hate words used there, as well. Why refer to a union as ‘fat’?

      As for meanness, pfffft. That National government sure knew how to be that.

      Judith, as usual, told us more about herself than shedding light on arguments for and against privately-run, state-funded schools.

  11. Carolyn_Nth 11
    9 February 2018 at 9:58 am

    So it’s being widely reported in the last couple of hours that the Dow Jones is on the slide again.

    And I’d expect the wealthy elites to move again in their own interests – to support their profits, and shift loses to those already struggling.

    When will we see the systemic changes needed for the many, and for the least well off?

    • Bill 11.1
      9 February 2018 at 10:16 am

      Putting aside the probable effects of AGW on the capitalist economy in the not too distant…

      The systemic change comes when we demand the systemic change; when we stop fretting about the price of our house; the returns from our pension scheme; our traction on the slippery pole of success…

      And to get meaningful change (ie – change that won’t see things default back to a version or parody of “this”) we’d do well to be versed in what makes capitalism capitalism, so that those defining features are absented from whatever comes next.

      But whatever – it won’t be given, gifted or “just happen”.

      • Pat 11.1.1
        9 February 2018 at 10:22 am

        “…The systemic change comes when we demand the systemic change;….”

        or rather when the majority demand it, and are willing to continue to demand it in the face of the consequences…..and we are not there yet, and IMO are unlikely to be in the foreseeable.

        • Bill 11.1.1.1
          9 February 2018 at 10:28 am

          You might be right Pat. But there are fairly solid demands for and movement towards more social democratic forms of “management”.

          That doesn’t fix things (not by a long shot), but it might be seen as a stepping stone or an opportunity to gather momentum behind a desired direction of travel 😉

          • Pat 11.1.1.1.1
            9 February 2018 at 10:33 am

            it will take a major disruption to the comfort of a significant portion of what could be loosely described as the ‘middle class’ before that movement gains critical mass…..remembering the elites will pull every string they can to avoid that happening.

          • Johnr 11.1.1.1.2
            9 February 2018 at 10:46 am

            Don’t think we’ll see any change until we have a leader step up and utterly reject neo-liberalism. I believe this will happen when they see enough of the peasantry demanding it. As much as I admire our present govt, we are a long way from achieving this

        • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.2
          9 February 2018 at 3:24 pm

          We got neo-liberalism against the wishes of the majority. The only people calling for it was the business community and they are, by default, a very small minority.

          The majority want something better but the government still listens mostly to that very small minority.

          • adam 11.1.1.2.1
            9 February 2018 at 3:38 pm

            Can we be a leftist site, and call it liberalism, because that is the economic system which is crushing the world is called.

            Neo-liberlism is just one part of a whole junk economic system we need to remove from this planet.

          • Pat 11.1.1.2.2
            9 February 2018 at 9:59 pm

            “We got neo-liberalism against the wishes of the majority.” but the active support of the business community (who finance the political parties)treasury, the RBNZ, and the cabinet of the day…..all cheered on by the worlds most powerful country and institutions

            To change would require a repudiation of nearly all of those listed while dealing with counter measures (impediments) that wernt active during the neolib conversion

  12. eco maori 12
    9 February 2018 at 10:22 am

    This is the respect these neo liberal run council all around Atoearoa show for OUR tuna and other native fresh water fishes here a link to show that they worship $$$$$$ instead of our wild life longfin tuna are a ENDANGERED native species WTF

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/101252966/NATIVE-FISH-ARE-BEING-ANNIHILATED-BY-COUNCILRUN-PUMPS AN TO KAI

    • tc 12.1
      9 February 2018 at 11:08 am

      Tuna’s been endangered for decades as it roams the seas so it gets plundered in open waters out of territorial eyes.

      Mitsubishi are rumoured to have a million tons of it on ice waiting for the supply to collapse

      • Stuart Munro 12.1.1
        9 February 2018 at 4:24 pm

        I think in this instance he is referring to anguilla dieffenbachii rather than thunnus thynnus – tuna meaning different things in English and Maori.

        • David Mac 12.1.1.1
          9 February 2018 at 5:02 pm

          Ha! Reminds me of a Billy T gag. “I caught a 120 lb tuna in my hinaki (eel trap) last week. It was a piano tuna.”

    • Jack Ramaka 12.2
      9 February 2018 at 2:32 pm

      Our Quota Management System has been rorted and plundered ever since Adam was a Cowboy ? MPI have been complicit in allowing it to happen ?

      • Stuart Munro 12.2.1
        9 February 2018 at 5:03 pm

        There’s certainly no excuse for not prosecuting and requiring pump modifications now that the data is in.

  13. Pat 13
    9 February 2018 at 11:31 am

    Taper tantrum 2.0…..

    “The Dow is now down 2776 points from its high on Jan. 26th, or 10.4 percent. Ladies and gentleman, we have an official correction.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/feb/08/markets-fall-back-ftse-dow-jones-bank-of-england-interest-rate-decision-business?page=with:block-5a7cbe7fe4b0365be5168502#block-5a7cbe7fe4b0365be5168502

  14. UncookedSelachimorpha 14
    9 February 2018 at 11:35 am

    Seems the company wanting to bypass the nz labour market and bring in 200 temporary Chinese workers has not made any serious effort to hire nz workers :

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/350003/chinese-tradies-company-says-not-given-tender-opportunity

    • Pat 14.1
      9 February 2018 at 11:42 am

      now theres a surprise….not

    • Draco T Bastard 14.2
      9 February 2018 at 1:27 pm

      Apparently, competition is the problem.

      • Jack Ramaka 14.2.1
        9 February 2018 at 2:30 pm

        Probably be able to pay the [deleted]less money ?

        [just don’t – weka]

        • Draco T Bastard 14.2.1.1
          9 February 2018 at 2:53 pm

          Possibly but the issue that the firm says in that article is that that they’d have to get multiple contractors in to do the work meaning that there’d be even more bureaucracy on their end to organise it all.

          Competition and the fragmentation that it brings is, apparently, the problem.

          Of course, the firm has been brining in workers ten at a time rather than all 200 at once which does tend to undermine their stated reasons.

          It probably is just the money. Is it possible that those workers are still hired in China and being paid Chinese wages rather than NZ wages?

          When one of our companies sends workers to do temporary work in Australia do those companies pay Australian wages while they’re over there or do they pay the lower NZ wages?

        • weka 14.2.1.2
          9 February 2018 at 7:37 pm

          Moderation note for you above.

    • Cinny 14.3
      9 February 2018 at 3:58 pm

      lololol they probably want to try the same tactics as when the chinese engineers came to remove the aspestos from the trains, far out that was apalling how they were treated/paid etc – the loophole.. NZ employment laws did not apply hence they were able to be treated like crap by their Chinese employer

      Trevor brought it to light a few years back.. This article from April 2015….

      “On April 18 the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment released its investigation into allegations the Chinese workers, stationed at Kiwirail’s yards in Lower Hutt and elsewhere, were paid below the minimum wage, living in cramped conditions.

      MBIE found that the allegations were not supported, however it admitted its efforts to establish how much the workers were paid were blocked when both the employees and employer, CNR Dalian Locomotive, refused to release wage records.

      However MBIE said this did not affect its investigation as “it is more than likely New Zealand employment law does not apply to these workers as they are based in China and here only temporarily for work”.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/68131192/rail-union-plans-legal-test-case-over-chinese-engineers

      • Ad 14.3.1
        9 February 2018 at 5:07 pm

        That’s because all Chinese companies are the same.
        Top work Rameka calling them all [deleted].

    • Ad 14.4
      9 February 2018 at 5:05 pm

      Typical chickenshit from an anonymous loser bidder.
      Harden up cupcake.

      • ropata 14.4.1
        9 February 2018 at 11:56 pm

        Yeah, why can’t NZ businesses compete with third world slave wages, shit attitudes to safety and quality, and dishonest corner cutting management?

        • Incognito 14.4.1.1
          10 February 2018 at 12:23 am

          Please don’t criticise capitalism. It is literally lifting millions of third world slaves from medieval working and living conditions (AKA poverty) to slightly better medieval working and living conditions and, more importantly, guarantees billionaires a spot on Forbes 500. Everybody wins! Especially the first world consumers and that’s you & me …

          • ropata 14.4.1.1.1
            10 February 2018 at 12:42 am

            “it’s class warfare all right, and my side is winning” — Warren Buffett.

            The comfortable Nat voting professional class don’t have a problem. Stories of “thousands of people suffering in poverty” are just leftie whinging. Who cares if kids are dying of cholera in South Auckland. Kohi and Takapuna beaches are very pleasant at this time of year, and property is up again, so all is well.

            /sarc

            • Incognito 14.4.1.1.1.1
              10 February 2018 at 12:58 am

              See no evil, hear no evil, attack the coalition and anybody and everybody who threatens your rightfully-gained profits, property & wealth, because it’s yours and you can do with it whatever you like, e.g. pass it on to the fruits of your loins, all tax-free, of course.

        • Muttonbird 14.4.1.2
          10 February 2018 at 12:27 am

          It’s Friday. Ad’s on global mode. Tomorrow he’ll do a 180 and slither in protectionist style.

          • ropata 14.4.1.2.1
            10 February 2018 at 1:12 am

            Maybe he’ll do a think piece on how great it would be if giant mutant ants destroyed humankind. “I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.”

  15. Jack Ramaka 15
    9 February 2018 at 2:29 pm

    The senile old geriatric Bob the Knob Jones puts his foot in his mouth like the other silly old clown Bill Gallagher from the Waikato, Waitangi Day brings out the Alzheimers in silly old white men ?

  16. Bea Brown 16
    9 February 2018 at 3:58 pm

    Many of us have family members who are senile and geriatric and silly and old and white and male and suffering from Alzheimers. We treat them with respect and love. It is sad to read these words used as insults.

    • ropata 16.1
      10 February 2018 at 12:46 am

      Characters like Bob Jones, Don Brash, Mike Hosking, Duncan Garner do try quite hard to keep the stereotypes alive. The stupid (old) bastards.

  17. Robert Guyton 17
    9 February 2018 at 5:13 pm

    “The prosecution, who are seeking a first-degree murder conviction, allege that Thinn strangled Woodward in December 2016.

    Thinn faces 25 years to life in prison if found guilty of first degree murder.

    The 30-year-old is the stepbrother of National MP Nikki Kaye and moved to the US in 2016 to pursue a career in music”

  18. eco maori 18
    9 February 2018 at 5:34 pm

    The main reason I’m advocate for equality for Lady’s is I know that neoliberals Men are stuffing up Papatuanukue they worship $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. YOU think I have not worked out the farcical gifts well sorry I have figured that out all by my self.
    Ana to kai

  19. Morrissey 19
    9 February 2018 at 8:06 pm

    Spineless, dishonest, incoherent.
    Why nobody trusts the Democrats.

    The contrast between Obama’s desperate need to please and the bullying certitude of the soldier staring at him could not be starker.

  20. eco maori 20
    10 February 2018 at 4:48 am

    The sandflys director thinks he can play ECO MAORI like a flute. But in reality it is ECO that is the flute player as I see all there players and plays.
    I am just defending myself and my whano from them. It turns out that My wife of Great genealogical heritage all ready had most of the information I need my wife tepuna was Ropata companion. Ka pai

    • eco maori 20.1
      10 February 2018 at 9:11 am

      I think that some farmers should get advice from ECO before listen to a neoliberals saleman who will sell ice to Eskimos its all good intentions on the farmers behalf but I think the product they got is not going to achieve there goal of minermizing nitrates getting into our water a lot of $$$$$$ spent to.
      KA KITE ANO

  21. eco maori 21
    10 February 2018 at 3:51 pm

    Many thanks lea from Rock radio station for the songs UNFUCK the world and QUEENS MAMA HE was a brilliant artists Anthony mundane get your head out of the sand its 20018 not 1818 Ana to kai