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Open mike 09/07/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 9th, 2020 - 200 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

200 comments on “Open mike 09/07/2020 ”

  1. I Feel Love 1

    Everyone having a cuppa and lie down or just cancelling culture? I see latest Stuff headline that the bozo escaping the fence is waaaaaaaaaaaay worse than National leaking confidential patient details, unless they're that opinion writers own details no doubt.

    • I Feel Love 1.1

      Is "White Jesus" an example of "cancel culture"? White washing Jesus?

    • Ed 1.2

      Mosa posted this excellent al Jazeera article yesterday about how the New Zealand's media's endangered the country's health in conjunction with the Natz.

      The article is worthy of a post in its own right. Here Glen Johnson describes the far right posturing of the media.

      At the end of the article, he asks ‘Will the media hold the National Party to account?’
      Your observation of Stuff’s headlines provides the answer.

      "A case can be made that the nation's media, laundering many of the opposition's attack lines and big business talking points, have repeatedly endangered public health.

      This was driven not only by the country's clutch of prominent Fox News-style commentators – Mike Hosking, Heather du Plessis-Allan and Duncan Garner – each of whom hawks anger and division to drive ratings, but by senior reporters and editors."

      https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/zealand-media-endangered-public-health-200707103532946.html

      • Muttonbird 1.2.1

        Brutal. Enjoyed that, thanks.

      • tc 1.2.2

        This is exactly the type of piece parts of our MSM should be creating but it's all owned.

        Over to you labour, grow a pair and fix it !

        • Ed 1.2.2.1

          I would reform the media as a top priority.

          At present New Zealanders are subjected almost totally to the views of the billionaire class.

      • Wayne 1.2.3

        The Jazeera link (which I have read) is not remotely a news item. It is a partisan opinion article.

        The Herald always has opinion articles submitted by readers from right across the political spectrum. They are what they are and readers know that.

        • francesca 1.2.3.1

          It's a counter to the multitude of opinion articles masquerading as fact (homeless man bs etc) that do attempt to influence NZers attitudes . Those articles put immense political pressure on the govt.I'm pretty sure without them we would have moved to level 1 at the time Bloomfield recommended.If we'd done that there would have been time to get the new testing regime securely implemented .

        • Ed 1.2.3.2

          Pity the corporate media never airs that view.

          Instead it trots out the partisan view its sponsors want them to say.

          The view of the deathcult called neoliberalism.

          [Fixed error in user name]

        • mac1 1.2.3.3

          Wayne, of course it's an opinion piece. It said on the link supplied by Ed. It says on the article when opened as well.

          It's not a good line to take, to criticise something for being what it is plain it is.

          What critics should do, Wayne, is critique the opinion piece. Where is it deficient, partisan to the point of error and distortion?

          I read it and was quite taken with the quality of the writing- the developed argument, the use of examples as evidence, the conclusions.

          It's not enough to slag something for being partisan. By definition, in a binary political world, half of partisan writing should be OK.

          So, my question is, having given some reasons as to why the article should be read in terms of style and approach, what are your concerns with its content?

          • Dennis Frank 1.2.3.3.1

            "Clark, the country's most effective health minister in decades" – seems incontrovertial evidence that the thing was written by a Labour partisan out of touch with reality. Totally clueless about the functional role of the fourth estate in a democracy too. Note the binary framing.

            • Incognito 1.2.3.3.1.1

              Let’s have a look a the list, shall we?

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_of_Health_(New_Zealand)

              • Stunned Mullet

                Let's take decades to mean </= to 30 years in this instance.

                The statement that "Clark, the country's most effective health minister in decades" is risible.

              • mac1

                Past three decades, since 1990.

                5 Ministers of Health over 30 months tenure- Coleman 36 months, Ryall 59 m., King 59 m., Shipley 36 m. David Clark 32 m.

                4 with 20-30 months tenure- Helen Clark 20 m., Hodgson 25 m., English 26 m., Upton 29 m.

                There's the field for thirty years. Who was the most effective Minister of Health?

                • Incognito

                  Fine with me, but the original Q who was the country's most effective health minister in decades.

                  • Ed1

                    I must be nearly impossible to agree on a measure for "most effective" – no Minister works outside the context of the government of which they form part. David Clark has been part of a government that knew Health needed a lot of remedial work – and that became clearer after they were elected, but it is also clear that Clark achieved more than just the essential – see https://www.labour.org.nz/progress-list and click on Health.

                    To put it another way, I think it would be hard to put many ahead of Clark; King had similar challenges (Covid apart) and similar advances in the field.

        • Sacha 1.2.3.4

          The Herald always has opinion articles submitted by readers from right across the political spectrum.

          Never seen opinion pieces from marxists in the Herald. Plenty of shrieking libertarians. They even get regular columns.

          • Gabby 1.2.3.4.1

            …across the right of the political spectrum

          • aom 1.2.3.4.2

            Can't comment on the Herald but Stuff not only produces overtly partisan opinion pieces (not leftist!) and frequently presents news which is so slanted, it should carry an 'opinion' warning.

          • Wayne 1.2.3.4.3

            Marie Leadbeater has had recent opinion pieces on West Papua and I think Rimpac. The readers submitted items are on the editorial page below the cartoon, and cover a wide variety of opinion topics.

            They are well read, but everyone reading them knows they are that person's opinion. The readers will agree or not agree, and of course they articles often contain interesting factual information irrespective of the opinion within the item.

            As for the libertarians, I presume you are thinking of John Roughan, who is on the staff (or at least was). Probably the most significant feature opinion writer on staff is Simon Wilson. I would say he votes Green based on what he writes.

            No, there are probably not many Marxists writing in the paper, but would there even be 1000 Marxists in New Zealand as a whole?

        • Anker 1.2.3.5

          The Al Jazeera article is an important critique of the National party reaction to the pandemic, which has bff even to take any angle to attack the govt, including leaking confidential patient information. It has revealed National as having no coherent response to the health situation. Barking at every car I think it is called. The media, with one or two exceptions have been the same. This undoubtedly put pressure on the govt who had to make the most crucial decisions very rapidly. Fortunately the govt were able to hold their nerve.

          nzders appear to have seen through the hysterics of National and some media and labour led by Ardern are on course for a landslide victory. Well deserved and you must know this Wayne. Nothing National have done has earned the trust of nzders. We have all met people at parties who blow themselves up “we have the best summer house, wine, etc etc etc”. Or in Nationals case the best team. Boasting about being the best isn’t a policy it’s kinda pathetic. Nzders use to associate it with American show off. I am pleased that most of us see through that crap

        • RedBaronCV 1.2.3.6

          Wayne why not discuss the substance of the opinion piece instead of trying to deflect the discussion into "everyone does opinion pieces"? Classic diversion tactic.

          It's an opinion piece critiquing news reports. It has a point though- apart from politics we have seen in the business press numerous "News articles" which have largely been industry groups, demanding that the border be opened for their favoured group of employees or customers.

          The dairy industry is a good example – it has repeated employer views extensively about the lack of workers but with no push back about the terms and conditions of the jobs ( many are short duration), why the industry has previously failed to train locals, why they are so "specialised" that a short term visa worker can do it on a minimum wage , what steps they have taken to attract local labour etc. It's as if a lot of the employer and right wing are allowed to operate in a question free zone.

          • Chris 1.2.3.6.1

            He doesn't have the guts to discuss the substance of the article or to respond to anything anyone says about his empty and senseless attempt at dismissing it. Spray and walk away Wayne. Total slime.

        • ianmac 1.2.3.7

          Do you imagine Wayne, that the Herald would remotely consider publishing an opinion piece such as the excellent Eljazeera column? Really?

        • Morrissey 1.2.3.8

          It is a partisan opinion article.

          Thus speaketh an ex-National Party minister. sad

          • Incognito 1.2.3.8.1

            This is not robust debate, this is pathetic 🙁

            • Morrissey 1.2.3.8.1.1

              I was pointing out the absurdity of an ex-National Party minister—a notorious one at that—hurling a loaded and demeaning epithet—"partisan"—at a serious and credible piece of journalistic analysis.

              • Incognito

                We could not have done without your help so a Bigly thanks to you 😉

              • Dennis Frank

                serious and credible

                Oh, I suspect the author was indeed serious about trying to con readers into believing it was a valid critique – but credible only to the credulous… 😉

        • woodart 1.2.3.9

          "right across the political spectrum"..from light blue to dark blue?

        • OnceWasTim 1.2.3.10

          I'd like to dedicate this to you and Mrs Wayne, Wayne. And tell her no need to pull out the Elna (oops the pedal powered Singer) just yet, and Mrs Wayne's tablecloths are safe SO FAR.

          Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag

          And smile, smile, smile,

          While you've a lucifer to light your fag,

          Smile, boys, that's the style.

          What's the use of worrying?

          It never was worth while

          So pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag

          And smile, smile, smile.

          And now that you're down with the kids running things these days, gimmee a hint, I need an exclusive. You were never 'on' with that old trout Michelle were ya? You know there's big talk of it and if the ragdoll media keep biting – you might have to front

          Whoar – tell me ya weren't tho' eh?. (And just btw – not only do I have a deal on Remdesivir for you, but there's a few of the blue left for you)

        • Chris 1.2.3.11

          Ed said it was an excellent article. Then you come along trying to dismiss that by saying it's merely "a partisan opinion article." So what? Nobody's saying it isn't.

          If you don't agree with the contents of the article why don't you say why you don't agree? You're such a snake.

      • francesca 1.2.4

        Thanks for that

        Really good article

      • Morrissey 1.2.5

        … Fox News-style commentators – Mike Hosking, Heather du Plessis-Allan and Duncan Garner – each of whom hawks anger and division to drive ratings…

        Du Plessis-Allan and Garner were the Talentless Television Twosome from Tartarus in 2015…

        HEATHER DU PLESSIS-ALLAN: Bad news today Dunc—One Direction’s broken up!
        DUNCAN GARNER: I don’t CARE. I really don’t.
        HEATHER DU PLESSIS-ALLAN: [suddenly uneasy, isolated] Heh, heh….

        https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/campbell-lives-sorry-replacement-cannot.html

    • aom 1.3

      Trust Luke Malpass , the National shill for Stuff ("Coronavirus: How isolation breach trumps National's privacy botchup") to start the day with a WTF moment! Since when did a single wandering miscreant who immediately is fronting up to the Court attracted the opprobrium of most NZers trump the criminal acts of at least three political opportunists. As for Muller, how could he have acted in any other way, and why did he not act decisively 30 hours earlier, even if it might have been 'kinda legal? Why, even the announcement of a recycled RON took precedence over dealing with a miscreant MP when he was in front of the camera for his press presentation. If Stuff want to be paid for content – they will need to get their shit together, unless they intend to be a 'Trumpian' sponsored organ of the Party of Irrelevance.

      • I Feel Love 1.3.1

        Stuff have taken it off their front page, and I don't really mind them spouting RW garbage, if they spout LW garbage too. I pay a Stuff sub so keep an eye, they're fairly even. Great piece in Al Jazeera, "partisan", ha!!! Seems pretty factual to me.

      • observer 1.3.2

        A lot of comments on a headline, but no link to the piece under it. Do people actually read the content before sounding off?

        It is hardly an attack on the government. It provides context to the isolation problem.

        What Malpass says about the dilemma is true. In fact it's what people have been saying on The Standard for ages. The balance between legal authority and health protection is a real challenge.

  2. Dennis Frank 2

    We now have an inside psych diagnosis of the Donald, from within his family: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/mary-trump-book-niece-summary-highlights-too-much-and-never-enough-a9606671.html

    One week from today, Dr Mary L Trump’s controversial book, Too Much and Never Enough, will hit store shelves. Dr Trump, a trained clinical psychologist who earned a master’s and a doctoral degree from Adelphi University, has authored a 211-page exposé of how the Trump family “created the world’s most dangerous man”…

    President Trump and his brother Robert Trump have been trying to stop the book’s publication since last month, by filing lawsuits to enforce a confidentiality agreement concerning a dispute over the estate of their father (and the author’s grandfather), Fred Trump Sr. But a New York State judge has so far refused to block the book’s publisher, Simon and Schuster, from releasing it to stores.

    Dr Trump has been estranged from Donald Trump for years, and is the first member of the president’s family to break ranks with him and the rest of her relatives by writing a book about them.

    Dr Trump, a trained clinical psychologist, says her uncle does meet all nine criteria needed to be diagnosed as a narcissist. But she writes that his mental problems are far more complicated than mere narcissism. “The fact is,” she explains, “Donald’s pathologies are so complex and his behaviors so often inexplicable that coming up with an accurate and comprehensive diagnosis would require a full battery of psychological and neuropsychological tests that he’ll never sit for.”

    The good news is that Americans touted their system of democracy as the best for most of the 20th century, claiming that `anyone can become president', and anyone eventually did. Donald proved them right. Mentally-ill folk have equal rights, and seeing one get the top job is a genuine thrill for all true believers in democracy! 🥳

  3. Ad 3

    Rio Tinto smelter in Bluff to go.

    1000 jobs on the line.

    Before we go all gleeful about rediverting the Manapouri generation, let's take a moment for the shock and devastation this will cause to those families putting dinner on the table.

    We are at our lowest economic ebb in a century, and this is simply a terrible blow for the people of Bluff, Invercargill, and Southland.

    • Sacha 3.1

      After that, a fantastic opportunity to put a seventh of our national electricity supply to better use.

      Bring on fully electrified public transport etc. If our govt finds a way past the last one's part-privatisation of the system.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300052786/tiwai-point-to-close-1000-jobs-to-go

      • Gabby 3.1.1

        Guarantee if the price of power shifts it will be upwards.

        • Sacha 3.1.1.1

          If we let our broken 'market' have its way, yes.

        • Andre 3.1.1.2

          That's the likely outcome, because Transpower will be able to increase their charges because of the extra investment they will have to make in the lines to move the power northwards.

          On the other hand, since Transpower is wholly owned by the government, I'm kinda OK with the money from increased energy costs going to the government. Kind of a wastrel tax. As long as provision is made for those at the bottom of the income scale to help them overcome the increased burden.

          • Gabby 3.1.1.2.1

            More of a kinda poor people tax. Bloody wastrels, heating their kids' rooms.

            • Andre 3.1.1.2.1.1

              Gotta harden 'em up for their walk to and from the mines. In the snow. Uphill both ways. With a howling gale right in their faces.

      • Chris T 3.1.2

        They have already had 3 years.

        There is a limit on blaming not doing anything on the last lot.

        • Sacha 3.1.2.1

          I'd welcome them announcing de-privatisation of our electricity system. That might be what it would take, as the Nats knew.

    • Andre 3.2

      Right, so let's take the opportunity to get serious about sustainable industry for Southland.

      I kinda like the idea of tasking Southland Institute of Technology with developing a range of electric vehicle conversion kits – preferably with a range extender option.

      In the immediate future, upgrading the transmission lines to get Manapouri's power to the Waitaki basin is going to provide a bit of a helping hand for employment and business activity in the region, if it's managed well with that as a specific goal.

      • Ad 3.2.1

        The Southland Regional Development Agency is the primary conduit for the concepts.

        They have representation from SRC, Invercargill Council, Gore, the two Trusts, Chamber of Commerce, the Polytech, and others.

        It's not like they haven't seen it coming

      • Sacha 3.2.2

        It would also be great to build a southern focus around Dunedin's engineering facilities like the Hillside rail workshop, set up fully carbon-free electric-powered factories, etc.

        Let's not waste the chance by just reducing the power costs for corporate dairying expanding in mismatching environments.

        • Just Is 3.2.2.1

          Sacha, it takes people and Governments to have the "vision" to believe it's possible and then make it happen.

          The problem with today's world is that People with a vision are considered "Dreamers"

    • Ed 3.3

      And Corin Dann fails to ask any tough questions of their spokesperson.

      Predictable.

      [Fixed error in user name]

      • Sacha 3.3.1

        Please add a link for those of us who missed the interview.

        • Ed 3.3.1.1

          Link to the interview.

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018754179

          If ever this government needed a reminder about the parasitical nature of multinational corporations, this brutal action while our economy is weakened by the effects of COVID 19……

          If a decent interviewer like Pilger or Fisk had been asking the questions, this angle would have been the focus.

          • aj 3.3.1.1.1

            Gary Tong's interview was a measured and reasonable response, Shadbolt sounded like he'd had a very heavy night before, and managed to turn it into a Penny Simmons election advertisement. About what I'd expect out of him. If I have misinterpreted that, well I did have trouble following him and I was multitasking at the time.

    • Tricledrown 3.4

      Shortages of labour on dairy farms in Southland workers will have to find new jobs.

      Aluminium demand will stay depressed for many years the aircraft manufacturing industry will take years to recover.

      So no future for Tiwae but Rio Tinto are blaming electricity prices.

      • Halfcrown 3.4.1

        Very good opinion Trickle.

      • Bearded Git 3.4.2

        Agree trickle…..my understanding is that Rio Tinto have been given heavily discounted electricity…..but the deal is secret….now they are blaming electricity prices for shutting up shop I think the public is entitled to know exactly what they are paying

        • Sacha 3.4.2.1

          Not secret. Criminally low. No time to find links right now but easy enough to find.

    • Just Is 3.5

      Rio Tinto, Gina Reinhart, the woman who makes $2.5M every hour of every day and then suggested to the Australian Govt that she should be able to import workers from China who would work for $1 an hour, saving her company a fortune in labour costs

      Outright Greed.

    • Dennis Frank 3.6

      Rio Tinto smelter in Bluff to go… 1000 jobs

      Those thousand folks do at least have the assurance that the newly-elected National MP for Southland will be available to explain to them how National will get them new jobs via business as usual.

      So they just need to organise themselves into a queue at the door of his electorate office when it opens. Call the media to show the queue on the evening tv news, then interview them after they come out from getting the MP's explanation. The pertinent question would be what day they start their new job, so the media can report whatever common pattern emerges from the answers…

      • weka 3.6.1

        Most people directly affected will most likely live in the Invercargill electorate, not Clutha Southland. Last time Invercargill voted in a Labour MP was 2002, Mark Peck held the seat for the 1993 – 2002 terms (which is kind of remarkable, a big swing in 1993, I wonder if the boundaries were redrawn, or it was a rejection of Nats doubling down on neoliberalism).

        In 2017 there was only a few hundred votes between the Nat MP and the L/NZF/G ones. Will be interesting to see who Labour stands this time.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invercargill_(New_Zealand_electorate)#Election_results

        • Chris T 3.6.1.1

          So the 1000 job loses and the rest directly working around the smelter aren't that big a deal?

          Cool.

          Great to see your priorities.

          • The Al1en 3.6.1.1.1

            You weren't considerate to all the families directly/indirectly supported by a 5* hotel hosting returning kiwis in quarantine.

            Priorities, you say. Have you checked for yours behind your fake outrage?

            • Chris T 3.6.1.1.1.1

              There's a thought.

              Maybe they can convert the smelter to a 5 star hotel.

              Heating wouldn't be an issue.

          • weka 3.6.1.1.2

            You've been here long enough to know that I don't tolerate people making shit up about my views and politics. There is absolutely nothing in my comment about the Tiwai jobs, it's a comment about southern electorates and voting. I have even less time for this shit than normal because it's election year. How you respond to my comment now will determine how I moderate you in the future.

            • Chris T 3.6.1.1.2.1

              I just find the shifting of 1000 people at the very least losing their jobs in a small region into election chances of a party a tad distasteful on the same day the the 1000 find out their life might be screwed

          • Muttonbird 3.6.1.1.3

            Bro. I was about to say don't put your hand in the cage.

    • Just shows @ Ad. The gNatz should have gone to Specsavers. Woodhouse might have got himself a Musk instead of a Thiel. At least he does stuff.

    • aom 3.8

      On the other hand, the quantity of cheap power that is about to be unleashed could power many thousands of jobs – ones that don't send the profits off-shore.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.9

      Before we go all gleeful about rediverting the Manapouri generation, let's take a moment for the shock and devastation this will cause to those families putting dinner on the table.

      How about – NO!

      Redundancies happen all the time and I doubt that those thousand workers gave more than a moments thought to those who suffered them.

      And, yes, the freeing up of that amount of electricity and the removal of the vast subsidies to a bunch of foreign bludgers is probably going to be beneficial to NZ.

  4. Reality 4

    Wayne, the Al Jazeera article is pretty balanced, fair and based on facts. What is wrong with that? Refreshing to read something like that after all the trump like media stuff doing its best to discredit the government in every way possible.

    How do you feel about the sleaze permeating your party? Our PM has behaved with grace always. She has had every reason to go for Muller and co and the way they operate, but has not.

    If she wanted a cup of tea and a lie down, like Muller, Hosking and co would have slaughtered her if that happened but poor Toddy was feeling the strain after a torrid few days.

  5. Just Is 5

    This latest escapee from Isolation needs to be made an example of, bring the full force of the Law on him, 6 months in jail, no questions.

    Make an example of him so that others may be deterred from attempting the same thing.

    I'd like to say he was ignorant, but he new what he was doing. foreigners who simply don't give a shit.

    • Sacha 5.1

      If he was in managed isolation rather than quarantine, has to be an NZ citizen or resident rather than a foreigner.

      • Just Is 5.1.1

        Yes, but that doesn't mean he was born here.

        The reports I heard was that he was a new arrival from India.

        Remember, NZ imported nearly a million migrants over a decade, mostly to replace the massive migration out of NZ after 2011, around 400,000, at that time, nearl 10% of the population.

        • Enough is Enough 5.1.1.1

          What reports did you hear?

          Are you suggesting that only people born in New Zealand are New Zealanders?

          • Just Is 5.1.1.1.1

            No, you've misunderstood, NZ citizens, today, aren't necessarily born in NZ, you know, migrants gaining citizenship after meeting the criteria.

            • Enough is Enough 5.1.1.1.1.1

              Yep

              This person flew in from India. What report have you seen that suggest he is a migrant, and if he is what is your point?

              • Just Is

                The exact one you described, it was a news report on the radio.

                It's possible the person flying in from India was originally from Ubekistan or Florida or even NZ, but the assumption was that they were from India, given the population, of 2.2 Billion, say compared to NZ of 5 million

    • Janet 5.2

      Then 1 yrs community service in hospitals.

      • Just Is 5.2.1

        Yep, and his face displayed on massive billboards so Everyone knows who he is.

        • anker 5.2.1.1

          While I understand the face displayed on billboards Just is and it is tempting to want that, I think anyone breaking quarantine could be very vulnerable to vigilantism.

          No let him do some time in jail. And a fine.

    • aj 5.3

      latest escapee from Isolation

      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. ~~ Albert Einstein.

      • Just Is 5.3.1

        Well said

        • greywarshark 5.3.1.1

          Ha ha this is funny but sad. 32 year old man not grown out of stupid childhood, or perhaps reached his peak already and on the way down.

          https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/man-escaped-auckland-isolation-says-hes-now-feeling-stressed-questions-positive-covid-19-test

          He also took selfies in the aisle and made phone calls using free wi-fi before returning to the hotel and waiting for police.

          He tested positive for Covid-19 yesterday morning and is now facing charges, while the supermarket has been closed for cleaning and several people, including staff, are in isolation.

          The man, speaking with the NZ Herald over the phone, reportedly said he felt "totally healthy and fine" and questioned his diagnosis, saying he had been given "no evidence" of actually having the virus…

          When asked why he thought it was OK to leave the hotel, he reportedly said "no one told me anything".

          He told the Herald that even people with Covid-19 are human, saying, "We are also people," but he didn't respond to questions about whether he thought he had put the public at risk by leaving the hotel.

          Self-pitying, self-centred juvenile twat.

          • Just Is 5.3.1.1.1

            Much, but that's how I interpreted his actions in the first place.

            Before going into Isolation, the Govt officials make it Very Clear What the Responsibilities are, there is NO EXCUSE

          • Gabby 5.3.1.1.2

            Well he might be mentally challenged.

          • RedBaronCV 5.3.1.1.3

            Nobody told him anything?

            FFS what did he think was going on? That the NZ government picks up everybody from the airport complete with minders and trucks them all off to a downtown hotel and pays their accommodation bill while they trot round sightseeing? I mean really?

            If he's good enough to have a debit card and work a checkout then you think he'd be smart enough to work out that something was going on and he'd better pay attention.

            [Fixed error in e-mail address]

      • Peter 5.3.2

        People are dumb and shortsighted and stupid and devious and everything.

        Don't trust anyone, you don't know what their motivations are. Plan for the worst, expect even worse.

        Is this it? The organisation was such that an infected person walked out of quarantine/isolation? He could have gone to a couple of clubs, got into the spirit of things and over the next couple of weeks the virus could have started spreading over the Auckland area and Auckland could have been Melbourne?

        If that is the case some people are not taking things seriously. They are not taking things seriously because they are dumb or they are simply not capable.

        Am I over-dramatising it suggesting that some cock up of poor planning or poor carrying out of procedures could have ended up in lives being put at risk and millions and millions of dollars being the cost?

        • greywarshark 5.3.2.1

          When you think about it – we are a bit of a wild west bunch quite often. It may seem refreshing and spontaneous and giving things a go to people, and yes sometimes. But a lot of it is rebellious, childish, self-centred, and lacking in self-discipline and not appreciating that there is a greater good out there. Everything can't revolve around self and immediate self-gratification – restraint is required from people old enough to be expected to be mature adults.

          But then we make little effort to help parents socialise their children, and this simplistic approach to life carries from one generation to the next. No wonder we find our country now in a mess in the natural environment and the social environment as well, and those of us who have acquired some objective view have an uphill battle showing how the problems are linked. Being thoughtful adults isn't in the experience of many family lines dating from colonial times.

    • Just Is 5.4

      Also, the escapee should be Billed for his Isolation, the estimated cost of $4000 plus the cost of Police time identifying potential victims

      Send them a message.

      • dv 5.4.1

        AND countdown should sue him for the cost of the cleaning and shut down.

        • Just Is 5.4.1.1

          Yes, make them responsible for their actions, this applies to everything in life.

    • greywarshark 5.5

      Foreigners aren't necessarily the best at not giving a shit. We can do as well without even trying, often!

      • Just Is 5.5.1

        Yes, in fact, probably worse

      • Psych Nurse 5.5.2

        What makes you think he's a foreigner, he knows how to use a self service checkout and obviously has a debit card, you won't find either in India.

        • Just Is 5.5.2.1

          This person could have NZ citizenship and lived here for a number of years, so would be able to use all things you describe.

          Have you been to India in the last decade? I only ask that as you assume that cos he's arrived from India, he has no concept of modern life, ie, credit cards and using self service, I think you'll find India is not that antiquated, in fact they probably designed some of that equipment, certainly some areas and states aren't that sofisticated.

    • A Kiwi mate. Makes it worse.

  6. Tiger Mountain 6

    Rio Tinto has bludged cheap power for decades, while thousands of our own people live in underheated, mouldy, dumps due to the high cost of electricity from the privatised power companies. Until such obvious inequities are seriously addressed they can sod off.

    • xanthe 6.1

      does the govt hold any sort of bond to sort out the toxic waste

      here is link from 2017.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/344491/toxic-smelter-waste-must-go-campaigner

    • Andre 6.2

      Just be aware that the actual energy cost is a bit under a third of a typical residential electricity bill. Transmission and lines charges are a bit over a third, retailer charges a sixth, GST a sixth, rats and mice the rest. So Meridian could give away the Manapouri power for free and it wouldn't reduce residential electricity bills much.

      https://www.meridianenergy.co.nz/your-home/pricing-and-rates/more-about-electricity-pricing

      • Graeme 6.2.1

        A broadly similar calculation would apply to Tiwai’s power bill. The costs of supplying the electricity are a major component, especially the costs involved in enabling some backup ability.

        Having an aluminium smelter at one end of a long skinny network may not be a good idea in a post electricity reform and privatisation era.

        • Andre 6.2.1.1

          No.

          Tiwai Point won't be paying any local distribution costs, they've got Transpower delivering right to their door. Their argument for getting reduced transmission charges from Transpower was basically that the spur line from Manapouri to Tiwai Point was just for them, so that was all they should pay for, and they didn't get much benefit from the rest of the grid so they shouldn't have to contribute to paying for it.

          Some time back I had a stab at comparing their transmission bill to their electricity bill, from memory and published speculation about the various components, it appeared their transmission charges were about a quarter their electricity charges. From memory, the numbers were around a quarter billion to Meridian for the juice and 65 million to Transpower to get it to them

          They also won't be paying retailer charges or GST or metering or any of the other rats and mice.

          One big effect of the electricity market jiggery-pokery is over the last twenty years, the price per kWhr went from being roughly the same for residential, commercial and industrial customers, to big industrial users now paying maybe a third of what residential users pay, with commercial users somewhere in between.

          • greywarshark 6.2.1.1.1

            edit
            What about conceding a lower cost for electricity but they must accept responsibility as a company, to remove and deal with safely the Mataura and elsewhere dump of leftover stuff that produces ammonia gas if wet. They are not to offsell it to any other company, they are not to contract with some other company to remove it, they are to meet with government scientists and have big full and frank talks about the way to do this, using all known scientific information on dealing with it to cause it to be inert. This must be done within two years after discussions and satisfactory solution decided. The discussions to start from six months from now. There may be some machinery required to process the stuff and we could look at offering some assistance to pay for this, no GST something, something. We should throw ourselves into getting this done, and done right at reasonable terms and proceed apace, as the saying goes.

            Get this done now while they are still here and operating, and left in a safe state. If they close down soon, it will be left sitting for us to deal with and we will never get these big boys back to the table. It is no use pontificating about what should happen, and that it isn't good environmentally.

            And perhaps design some state housing that uses aluminium which is strong and light, and is going cheap at the moment on world markets, and we buy it at those prices and it is right in the country so should save some carbon costs.

      • Tiger Mountain 6.2.2

        Andre@6.2…
        Power generation/supply/retail/wholesale is an artificial market created by National and unfortunately largely still supported by all parliamentary parties to satisfy the prevailing monetarist doctrine and structural neo liberalism NZ operates on. Meridian and the rest are creatures of legislation and prime examples of the penetration of state infrastructure by market forces and private capital.

        The power companies of all stripes are essentially parasites on previously publicly owned and developed, hydro, thermal and fossil fuelled systems.

        What has Rio Tinto contributed apart from environmental degradation, heavily subsidised jobs, and periodic blackmail?–even the Key Govt. gifted them further millions and Mr Key was meant to be a financial genius. Their last effort to get further concessions, despite employing a professional front organisation did not seem to get a lot of traction from locals anyway if meeting attendances and media impact are an indication.

  7. Andre 7

    @lprent – had a couple of comments just take a random walk into oblivion after hitting "submit comment". One just a few minutes ago in reply to Tiger Mountain just above, one last night. The one just now didn't have links or any even slightly controversial language.

    edit: the redo of the reply to Tiger Mountain went through normally.

  8. Andre 8

    The Lincoln Project are going hard after vulnerable senators, too.

    • greywarshark 8.1

      Lincoln Project: Slick about sick Trumpites and their doings and should rake in the shekels. Never ever trust them again, they say. Fair enough. But I don't trust anybody now. So what are they – hot air balloons with baskets touching the ground long enough to be filled with money which will rise and drift away for a distant destination?

      Headline in today's Nelson Mail – 'Niece paints acid portrait of President'. I thought what a good art work that would be – some material with his face marked out with the facial contours sort of etched into it. It would make a good wall hanging of this epic leader, monumental. Think Han Solo Star Wars.

      (https://www.flickr.com/photos/coffeego/11303417565

  9. joe90 9

    But…but..affirmative something…

  10. dv 10

    See Winston is in hospital for emergency surgery.

    Too many dead rats?
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346737

  11. joe90 11

    Florida man.

    • I Feel Love 11.1

      "KPop Agents" hyuck!!!! I see a new character for Sacha Baron Cohen coming up…

    • Draco T Bastard 11.2

      When the US stops interfering in other nations governance is when they can complain about other nations interfering in theirs.

  12. greywarshark 12

    I often have to edit away a couple of &nsp or something that produce double spacing each – lots of empty space at end. Why does it creep in so often?

    • Incognito 12.1

      I don’t know but in the comment above @ 11, there are 16 non-breaking spaces!!

  13. mosa 13

    Posted late last night so for those who missed reading this excellent story from Aljazeera.

    " How New Zealand's media endangered public health "

    This report from Glen Johnson of Aljazeera

    https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/zealand-media-endangered-public-health-200707103532946.html

    • Ed 13.1

      Thank you mosa.

      Excellent article. I posted it earlier today and acknowledged your discovery of it the day before.

  14. Stephen D 14

    I'm the treasurer of the Whangaparaoa Labour Party LEC. A real battle in a blue electorate to drive up the party vote.

    We are having a campaign launch dinner and fundraiser on 1 August. Link below.

    https://tinyurl.com/y85txx9d

    If you would like to help us increase the % of the party vote which we have in the last 2 elections, we would love to see you.

    Mods, if this is inappropriate feel free to delete.

    • greywarshark 14.1

      Sounds good. Not deletable surely, more delectable! Kia kaha.

    • Heather Grimwood 14.2

      Go well Stephen D!…I was once in charge of Whangaparaoa/Orewa end of what was then Rodney electorate,and acknowledge your situation.

  15. Just Is 15

    Just found this interview with John Cambell, well worth the watch, relevent to the upcoming Cannabis Referendum.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/nationals-paula-bennett-greens-chl-e-swarbrick-go-head-over-cannabis-referendum

  16. Just Is 16

    And here's another one on the same subject, but…

    A warning, it's a Hosking rant

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?objectid=12344874&&ref=recommended

    If that guy had a brain he'd be dangerous

    • Incognito 16.1

      Actually, he has a mouth and a megaphone, and he knows how to use these very well.

      • Just Is 16.1.1

        Yep, but fortunately for us his listener base is relatively small, for obvious reasons, he's only talking to an echo chamber, noboby with an IQ above their age listens to the Hosk.

  17. Morrissey 17

    Dirty Dairying is ruining this country

    “If this farmer is the best of the best, the reputation of the dairy industry and New Zealand are in serious trouble.”

    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2007/S00126/new-zealand-share-farmer-of-the-year-winner-a-profane-industry-poster-boy.htm

  18. weka 18

    Paddy Gower was in isolation for a day or so after using the same supermarket as the quarantine wanderer. He's tested negative and is now out and about again. What day did the dude go walk about? It seems a very short period of time for covid to develop enough to return a positive test. I think the risk is very low, but am curious how that is being managed. Is the idea that a true negative will be available within a few days?

    • Adrian 18.1

      It's a stunt caused by Gower's Loss of Relevance Condition or most likely he is even stupider than I ever thought as it's 3-4 days minimum for a conclusive test.

      • weka 18.1.1

        lol. I haven't kept up on the testing regime, but there does seem to be a lot of confusion out there about it.

      • Just Is 18.1.2

        Yep saw the article yesterday and wondered how Gower managed to get tested and recieve the results in the same day, how long was he in Isolation?

        I'd like to see him in isolation for the full 2 wks just to drive home it's not acceptable to flaunt the rules for a story

        • In Vino 18.1.2.1

          Perhaps he is one of those exceptional accelerate students, and he achieved his 2 weeks' isolation in a matter of mere hours…

          • Chris T 18.1.2.1.1

            Think the media are classed as essential workers, so presumably would have been fast tracked.

      • McFlock 18.1.3

        probably found out he was in the supermarket before the iso-jumper even got there.

        Or the test came back "yeah, nah, you're just a bit of a drama queen".

  19. Dennis Frank 19

    Anticipating the Exit, in which England declares independence from the UK… https://unherd.com/thepost/english-nationalism-the-dog-that-is-starting-to-bark/

    Recent polling underlines the fragility of the union in which we live, with 54% of Scottish voters and 25% of Welsh voters now backing independence, and 45% of Northern Irish voters backing union with the Republic.

    New Labour’s gamble that devolution would defang the independence movements in Britain’s Celtic nations seems to have dramatically backfired: instead, the result seems to be that London’s media pays far less attention to the currents threatening our union than they should. But more interesting than all of these poll results is the revelation that 27% of voters in England would back English independence from the United Kingdom.

    So more than a quarter of the English electorate seem to be separatist. As political minorities go, that's substantial!

  20. Incognito 20

    An attempt at analysis, at least.

    All that, like EY’s figures, may be best regarded as just enormously speculative.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122073190/fact-check-could-a-transtasman-bubble-really-raise-nzs-gdp-by-88b-by-christmas

    • weka 20.1

      They're still counting the wrong things I see.

    • RedBaronCV 20.2

      Quite apart from the defects already pointed out in the article – the only thing NZ has in quantity that Australia doesn't is snow. On the other hand they have more sun, more nightlife, more shopping , more….well everything. so why would they spend more here than we do there. Should reports like this even be issued. It doesn't reflect well on EY

      [Fixed error in e-mail address]

  21. Fireblade 21

    • Drowsy M. Kram 21.1

      Ha! Only Hooton, bailing frantically but in vain, is missing (in action.)

      • Anker 21.1.1

        Maybe Hooten has jumped overboard and is swimming for his life Drowsy.

        rats leaving a sinking ship and all that

    • ianmac 21.2

      Great! Cartoonists are better than journalists.

    • Just Is 21.3

      Very apt, one of things I like about this cartoonist is that he has no political bias, he makes fun of whoever gives him the opportunity.

  22. mac1 22

    Getting this ‘sponsored’ group on Facebook. Fairness in Focus.They are representing medical drug manufacturers. So why this name for a group of lobbyists?

    Today's headline was "New Zealand ranks last out of 20 OECD countries for access to modern medicines."

    So, how many OECD countries are there? 20? Are we bottom of the OECD countries for the number of modern medicines registered, the time it takes to access them and how many such medicines are publicly funded?

    That's what they imply.

    Well, folks, Colombia is number 37 to join, says Google.

    It seems there are lies, damned lies and pharmaceutical statistics! Do we have fairness in Fairness in Focus's advocacy for the pharmaceutical companies?

    For more information visit: https://www.fairnessinfocus.co.nz/

  23. greywarshark 23

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/420829/californian-family-s-bid-to-recover-son-s-body-from-nz-lake-rejected

    It is interesting that the police vetoed the request, Covid-19 reasons not referred to in this article, but because of their oft-heard wish not to allow any action that is not initiated by them, may have risk, and which does not assist them in some way.

    In the April email, the New Zealand police referred to other barriers: The cost "to bring yourself from the US" and deploying a team for an "unknown length of time" with "no possible guarantee of success".

    "Thank you for your kind offer, but unfortunately we cannot take you up on it," the police concluded…

    The response to that was: "We're the ones saying we'll pay for it. We're not asking them to do it. I don't think he even referenced Covid – they just don't want to do it."

    It is sad that these people have lost their son who is drowned at the bottom of a lake, and we are in a pandemic now, but it appears that the police are in charge of this matter and have refused the parents from ever having the right to conduct their own operation, which of course should be done in a professional manner. Something must be done further about this, rather than just an outright refusal, there should be a possibility to be reviewed every six months for three times and then finally in two years, say.

    We need a Risk and Recovery Unit outside the normal policing, and with more expertise and a wider framework. People in the field may be part-time employed by a few permanent and well-experienced operations managers (no generic employees). They would be trained in what to look for that might relate to legal proceedings, but they would go beyond the police yoke that seems bounded by demands from police management following best practice guidelines.

    Another thing is sad – that a number of things malfunctioned and caused this tourist's death.

    Tyler Nii, 27, a tennis coach, did not survive after a double parachute failure over Lake Wakatipu in January 2018.

    His lifevest also failed to inflate. The tandem-jump instructor survived…

    The Nii family still do not have a death certificate. It is unclear why.

    They did have a Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) report, but they considered it so inept and incomplete they thought it did not deserve to be called an investigation.

    It had been a long fight just to be told anything by authorities, Kevin Nii said.

    Was it an avoidable disaster, and if not, why not? This is part of a line of injuries and deaths in our great outdoorsy, risky, physical-oriented tourist business. And one not set up properly and thoughtfully. It is disgraceful that we have the number of accidents and deaths that we do.

    When Labour wins the election and is back in power, then we should set up an agency as part of the ACC to check how things could be run better. And restore people's right to sue with a cap, for aspects that are beyond ACC's remit.

    This means that the loose way that geonet measurements of volcanic activity are graded, and that there will be controls on say the White Island tourist activities accordingly. We know that business has difficulty limiting itself and turning down the dollars in any sector. This one makes much money from taking people to a 'muttering' volcano and needs to be given definite limits.

    In the meantime it would be good if these people could be asked to stay in touch and first, that the police negative be replaced by a guarded positive if possible with an unconnected expert's opinion on whether it could be done safely whether it was likely to be successful or not, and second that the situation would be looked at by some authority, perhaps tourism who would check whether there was a Covid-19 window which facilitated it. We want our tourism to continue in a better form than previously, and we do not want to lose our better-paying people because of bad reports about our being casual and unreliable.

  24. Gareth 24

    Australia is looking at capping arrivals and charging for quarantine stays.

    https://www.theguardian.com./australia-news/2020/jul/09/nsw-may-cap-numbers-of-people-arriving-in-australia-and-charge-for-hotel-quarantine

    This will provide cover for the same move here.

    • satty 24.1

      Especially after we have to build high fences around all the facilities and have 24/7 police available to deal with those entitled individuals (luckily, there are not many yet, but surely the number is going to rise).
      If this is a longer term thing, we should set up camp on an island for the new arrivals.

      • I Feel Love 24.1.1

        Now the police union are criticising the Govt because they have to guard these people in quarantine. They kinda have a point, why should the police guard these people? But maybe because all the fearmongering in the media the Govt has turned the level right up to 11?

        • RedBaronCV 24.1.1.1

          NSW used the police and defence staff. Victoria used outsourced contractors. Look who has the massive outbreak and why.

          We are using a mix of outsourced, defence and police. Oh and IIRC there was a comment for a security company spokesperson complaining about those people being low paid. Maybe the industry could fix that themselves.

        • greywarshark 24.1.1.2

          Why can't the police work with the community instead of deciding who they want to protect and who not? Should we call in the Army?

          I question why hospitals have to hire security guards? Protecting our public workers and places should be police work. Private people's cars and property should be protected but it seems that people anywhere generally seem to be down the list.

    • Gareth 25.1

      Wow, that guy sounds deranged. He's a republican though, so it's not surprising he knows nothing about the progressive wing of the Dems. He even names Harris and Warren as patron saints of progressives… what a joke.

  25. Eco Maori 26

    Kia Ora

    The Am Show.

    There is no mystery its dirty politics the underbelly is shining in Aotearoa.

    Ka kite Ano

  26. Eco Maori 27

    Kia Ora

    Newshub.

    That's the way charge the fools who are putting the whole of Aotearoa at risk of the virus.

    That's good news people going on holiday in small towns in Aotearoa.

    Ka kite Ano.

  27. Eco Maori 28

    Kia Ora

    Te Ao Maori Marama.

    That's is good to see some putea going to Wahine who have been negatively affected by the virus.

    Ka kite Ano

  28. Eco Maori 29

    Kia Ora

    Newshub.

    That's is great heaps of mahi for tradies.

    A sugar tax is needed.

    Ka kite Ano.

  29. Eco Maori 31

    Kia Ora

    Newshub.

    Election time in Aotearoa.

    Racist attacks on people by idiotic fools.

    The Electric car market is going good.

    Ka kite Ano.

  30. Eco Maori 32

    Kia Ora

    The Am Show.

    It would be awesome to see Aotearoa stop burning coal and change to renewable energy.

    Solar power installation subsidies would be great to.

    Ka kite Ano.

  31. Eco Maori 33

    Kia Ora

    Newshub.

    Yes vegetables are expensive.

    Mystery creek field days is online That's the way of the future the Internet.

    Ka kite Ano.

  32. Eco Maori 34

    Kia Ora

    Te Ao Maori Marama.

    Yes Maori need to train for high paying mahi in the system minority cultures will be last unless the employer is Maori or of minority culture Pukana.

    That's the way having cardiac arrests defibrillator on Te Marae.

    We must remember what our Tipuna has achieved.

    Ka kite Ano.

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