Written By:
notices and features - Date published:
6:00 am, July 10th, 2020 - 215 comments
Categories: open mike -
Tags:
The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.
The Easter Bunny is real
https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2020/07/02/story-of-taxes-wealth-and-easter-egg-hunt.html
A bloody fine article – should be required reading for all neolibs!
That's a good example not for more taxes but for a maximum income. And, no, it won't be set at 18 or 20 eggs but at 9 or 10. More than enough each but not so much that it automatically forces others into poverty.
BTW, the high taxes that we used to have were exactly that – a maximum income. Although they weren't really high enough to achieve that and the rich could, and still do, structure their income in such a way so as to avoid it thus proving that using taxes as an indirect income ceiling doesn't work.
That piece makes the mistake of starting out be buying into the false framing of the "tax is theft" crowd by only talking about transfers from individuals to individuals.
But only about a third of government revenue goes to social security and welfare, the rest goes to maintaining a functioning society.
Seems to me the better framing is around contributing back to maintaining the society that made it possible to gather lots of eggs, so that it will remain possible to again gather lots of eggs next year and the year after and the year after. And just a fraction of the cost of maintaining society is ensuring everyone gets at least the minimum number of eggs to adequately get by on.
Holy F**k – Stuff is at it again today. The latest mountain out of a molehill offering is an opinion piece, the shabby wordsmithing of Thomas Manch! Today's propaganda installment reads almost as though the dastardly criminal Megan Woods took a poor sad Covid affected, wanderer down to a local Countdown with the express purpose of unleashing a pandemic on the public. Thank God the likes of al Jazeera and even the Guardian are capable of providing competent commentary because sure as hell, it is hard to find in the NZ media.
Link please.
A Covid, a priest and a rabbi walk into a bar … https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122086481/coronavirus-border-oversights-continue-as-covid19-walks-into-a-supermarket
The past, present and the future walk into a bar.
It was tense.
So tense that you could hear a particle drop.
Participle?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_particle
Sacha – reluctantly provided given that is has little merit in terms of useful discourse, however: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122086481/coronavirus-border-oversights-continue-as-covid19-walks-into-a-supermarket.
It appears someone further up the Stuff food-chain was not too impressed as it 'disappeared' quickly.
TS likes to have sources, not sauces aom. We might read or be told about one thing and find it is contested within the item, or there might be in it more contentious matter to be considered.
They're not fucking "oversights" for a start – I'm beginning to want to call them "criminal nuisance" on the part of the escapees. Do we really have to make an internment camp with barbed wire just so these jerks can handle a couple of weeks? .
I have read some of the WW2 stories of people in internment who weren't 'selected' and either were worked to death and/or starved to death. They were amazing and the ones who lasted through it all and wrote about it seemed to have developed great ways of coping with their great difficulties.
Two weeks in comparative comfort but very boring is hard for those who have never trained themselves to deny themselves anything. Religious people have had Lent and know what it's like and then the real pleasure from having stuff again.
In the internment camps they could find advantage from hardship in unexpected ways. Having large amounts of fleas on themselves and their barrack rooms was itchy and scratchy but it kept the horrid warders from coming in and searching and spoiling their lives further. People used to hoard little crusts of bread etc for the times when they were extra hungry and if these were found they would be thrown out. Refugees who came here after the war kept on doing this – a default position that they couldn't overcome poor things.
Simon Bridges discovered the secret of happiness, and told Toby Manhire:
The method seems to work on a bipartisan basis:
That's awesome, I imagine David Clark is another happy chappy too.
What an embarrassment he is. National's "brains trust" (headed by Michelle Boag) must have thought there was no way but up after getting rid of him.
Incredibly, they were wrong.
Rosemary McLeod has a cool photo of Matt McCarten giving Michelle Boag advice: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122075230/boag-and-walker-have-put-nats-regrowth-on-hold
Dunno how to shrink it into this space here, but he seems to be giving her the inside word on how to destabilise Labour – you can tell from the expressions on their faces.
Laxative tip.
So Todd's master plan is now in the pipeline, and it bears an uncanny resemblance to socialism: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12346799
That means marketing is now crucial. Framing so as to persuade Nats that it isn't actually socialism ain’t gonna be easy. Hooten may have to hire a pr specialist. He is one? Um… Well when your audience has been trained since childhood to call a spade a spade, you will have to outwit them somehow.
I know! Use Jim Bolger! He has already gone public with his view that neoliberalism failed. He could be authentic in selling `smart socialism' as a brand then, eh? Frame Labour's lame version as `dumb socialism' and the Labs will have no option other than telling the electorate "Actually, we're neoliberals, not socialists." Problem solved.
You can call it anything you like, e.g. post-neoliberal socialism, or dress it up anyway you like, but unless National has had an overnight epiphany, which in some cases means a transformative (AKA life changing) epiphany during a lie down and cuppa tea, then it still is neoliberalism. Marketing, my ass; look at what’s under the bonnet of the ‘red’ car that has come out of the panel beater’s workshop.
Nats are into transformative plastic surgery; viz Paula Bennett and are also concerned about upping their mental agility, they've a bit of furring, thickening of the veins etc. However free markets enable all sorts of remedies, bleach might be more efficacious than a cup of tea.
'She's a Pretty Communist' Guy won't be having that.
Nothing unusual, really, about Boag and her cronies exploiting gifts of personal data landing spontaneously in their laps…but the real issue here is why on earth rescue helicopter businesses were sent the information by the Mystery of Health in the first place. What possible purpose would be served by rescue services having this very specific information?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346999
The former ARHT doctor struggled to see why the ARHT should be given the patient lists even if there were hundreds of cases across the country.
Early on when we were in level 4 lockdown … level 3 lockdown, the ambulance services were treating any patient who had respiratory symptoms as a possible Covid patient and wearing appropriate personal protective equipment. So actually knowing the identity and being sent a list of patients is just not helpful," McGuinness said.
Which obliges us to remember one of the earliest (and perhaps the most harmful) of Bloomfield's confused messaging.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12322248
Ambulance staff would not perform CPR on a confirmed Covid-19 case, Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield says.
This was a guideline adopted internationally, he said, and because the virus was spread via the respiratory system.
This was very quickly disputed by these 'ambulance staff'…
However, St John said it would continue to resuscitate patients in cardiac arrest and there had been no directive that CPR should not be done on suspected or confirmed Covid-19 cases.
"Like all ambulance services in New Zealand, Australia and internationally, we have issued additional instructions to ambulance officers when responding to cardiac arrest patients because of the increased risk of exposure to Covid-19 during resuscitation," a spokesman said.
"Guidance includes donning additional personal protective equipment (PPE) and alterations to the way that patients are resuscitated (for example, providing ventilation using specific devices and not through a face mask), to reduce the risk of transmission of viral infection, if present."
To my knowledge, Bloomfield has never revised that directive….
I can't find it but there was an article on RNZ with garbled quotes from Boag and one of them was she asked for the emails to be sent to her to make sure no one on Waiheke had Covid, why she had been receiving them through the whole pandemic. I'll try again to find it, was a very confusing bunch of excuses.
I have not take Boag seriously as a human being since she commandeered that rescue helicopter to go pick up her forgotten passport.
The whole Pullar thing cast all involved in a remarkably poor light.
Beggars belief that anybody who aspires to public office would see association with such a one as a benefit.
Scratching dogs and fleas….
I'll definitely be interested in the thinking behind distributing that infromation to responders, and it will be documented somewhere. Another matter for the inquiry, but not the main event, imo.
The plot thickens….
Michael Woodhouse now admits he received information from Boag.
Did he receive the information on the 2 travellers from her?
Did he receive the information on the homeless an from her?
‘”This was confirmed for me as I wrote to Michael Heron QC last night to advise him that towards the end of June I had sent several emails to Michael Woodhouse comprising notification of a small number of then new Covid19 cases.”
Sounds like it.
Did Woodhouse use the leaked information?
And is Muller really telling us that his Health Spokesperson told him nothing about 4 emails he received from Boag between the 21st and 25th June?
Another 2 resignations needed.
Dirty Politics alive and kicking in the National Party.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12347017
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/420906/covid-19-privacy-leak-michael-woodhouse-says-he-received-emails-from-michelle-boag
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300053836/michelle-boag-leaves-national-party-after-leaking-patient-info-to-michael-woodhouse
Wait there’s more…
and likely as long as Mr Heron keeps investigating, the headlines will keep coming for a while yet, despite National’s attempts to deflect, minimise, bury and ignore.
It has taken international media to point out the obvious situation of local media supporting and enabling NZ National’s Covid attack lines ahead of public safety. A big clean out is due in this country. National’s dirty tricks are deeply embedded in the party culture, not an aberration.
So who did Woodhouse tell about four leaks from a known source that he knew enough not to share with media because of what they contained.
Does the National Party view of morality for Nikki Kay's 'moral obligation' to win the election include using illicitly gained information as Walker did?
Does the National Party view of morality for Nikki Kay's 'moral obligation' to win the election include not alerting the proper authorities to the distribution and access to such information as Woodhouse did not do in a timely with his 'cuddling couple' preferring to use it for political purposes in the House?
Does the National Party view of morality for Nikki Kay's 'moral obligation' to win the election include not alerting the proper authorities to the distribution and access to such information as Woodhouse did not do with the four emails (so far) from Michelle Boag?
Who can believe that senior members of the National Party be it leadership, leader's staff or party officials did not know?
This is indeed the time for the National Party to examine more closely the ethics of its MPs, staff and organisation- a few years in Opposition lockdown and isolation might help.
Aren't they lucky that Winston is in hospital at the moment!
Great questions.
Pity we don't have a media that will ask them.
Michael Woodhouse is on RNZ at 10.30 a.m.
Will Kathryn Ryan ask the important questions?
If Boag is releasing information that she kept Woodhouse informed, is she doing so because she is bitter and twisted and is seeking revenge?
Quite possibly.
two yes;s and a maybe
Or maybe the "problem" is that the inquiry has her email server?
May be over the years the National Party rot that Boag has managed it became normalised to her and she got away with it until she knew she had lost control and tried to shut it down but had no control over what Woodhouse or Muller would say.
If you take Boag and Walker out you have a Woodhouse and Muller credibility issue.
Muller needs to backbench Woodhouse and Kaye needs to come clean if Boag or Woodhouse sent her the emails and if she went to Muller.
Yes no surprises there with Woodhouse. No alarm bells for him about Michelle giving him confidential patient information on four occasions like “what the f..k Michelle’s why are you passing this stuff on?”……..or why do you a non clinical person have this information in the first place.
btw I think it is reasonable rescue helicopters ie their clinicians were give this. It’s a bloody pandemic, frontline staff are putting their lives at risk and I cannot think of a time when clinicians intensional you leaked notes although there was a famous whistle blower case in the 1990s. Rem
So Woodhouse did not tell Muller for over 2 weeks…….
Yes, that's the killer line. Since June 21! Incredible. All while standing next to his boss, slamming the government and telling us how we needed the National "team".
Of the two options, I'm more inclined to believe he didn't tell Muller, than he did and Muller kept quiet. Like most National MPs, Woodhouse couldn't care less about his leader. Muller has no clout in that caucus at all.
Agreed.
His behaviour over the two travellers to Wellington shows his priorities.
Ha ha ha Observer……yes Michelle welcomed him with open arms, viewed his selfies and then penned her next missive to Michael Woodhouse……..
BTW has Woodhouse resigned yet? My husband just sent him a corker letter about his outrageous and despicable behavour towards Clare Curren with the toilet seat.
Told my husband who has yet to have a response from Woodhouse, that clearly he had other things on his mind and he would probably get to hubby's letter on the weekend…………happy days!
AND what's more he had a ping at the leakage of the the self same health info as disgracefully shambollicly
Michael Woodhouse said he DELETED information sent from MBoag. LMAO. That little gem has set me up for the day.
"Subsequently."
To quote him.
"I recognised that the information in those emails was private so I did not share it with anyone else and I subsequently deleted them."
The key word is "subsequently".
He did not say "immediately."
If he received the emails on the 21 June and deleted them yesterday, he would have deleted them "subsequently".
Like 2 minutes after he was asked if Boag had provided information to him!
At the very least, Woodhouse needs to show a reply from him to Boag saying "WTF Michelle! Cease and desist, now!".
Preferably not one he came up with this morning. He'll need to fake the date stamp.
If he received the emails on the 21 June and deleted them yesterday, he would have deleted them "subsequently".
exactly ! We should assume thats what he has done.
Yes. He said that was what he did. Deleted last Monday/Tuesday after sitting on them since June.
So Woodhouse is now admitting Boag Leaked information to him as well
The story reads as though Boag has been at the bottom of all leakages, maybe just a red hearing to protect the real source.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/national-mp-michael-woodhouse-admits-receiving-similar-covid-19-leak-michelle-boag
No, Woodhouse claims he has another source as well.
“I can confirm that Michelle Boag is not the source of my previous information released by me in relation to the Government’s Covid-19 response.”
(obviously we can’t believe a word he says, but it doesn’t rule out another source)
Mr Heron needs to spend a few hours with him.
Quite possibly. There is clearly a mole there.
Woodhouse needs to explain why he sat on that information for over 2 weeks.
He brooded about it while he waited for it to hatch. He didn't know whether to get egg on someone's face or wait for it to fully develop.
Spectacular announcement just now. Boag feeding Woodhouse stuff for weeks. Muller claiming just yesterday that there was no need to question his own MP's on whether or not they had anything to hide. All done and dusted he claimed, with the confessions of Walker and Boag. The great unravelling has only just begun.
Don't ask if you want to be able to deny.
Have they worked out where the Countdown bloke actually went for 70 minutes yet, or is this beyond the current people in charge?
He went to Michelle Boag's apartment, where he had a cup of tea and a lie-down.
And shared his selfies?
Chris T criticizing the govt now and the quarantine facilities is just a pathetic distraction. I suggest you go to stuff and read the article by the pathologist that has just arrived in the country to take up a job and is in quarantine who says our system is the gold standard and one other countries should model themselves on.
You are making yourself look a little ridiculous here. A bit like Woodhouse with the homeless man
Good on you anker, Chris is as bad Walker and Woodhouse, from the same mould
"Chris is as bad Walker and Woodhouse, from the same mould"
Lol
FFS
22 minutes was spent on his phone making use of the free internet outside the Supermarket and 15 minutes inside the Supermarket which leaves 33 minutes to walk there and back.
Hard luck Chris.
Apparently the supermarket is 5 minutes walk away.
Chris don't you realize that people aren't pissed off with the Govt over this guy leaving isolation. They are very, very pissed off with the offender. Calling for jail time etc……………
Your onto a loser here Chris….
I want to know if he has confirmed that the 22 minutes on the phone were calls to NZ Herald and RNZ. ?
Who did he send the selfies to?
Maybe he was calling Woodhouse or Walker to let them know "the jobs done"
He drove back to his electorate.
He leaked confidential information to news companies!!
Oh wait no that was the national party!!
I think the casino needs to check their footage.
Chris T criticizing the govt now and the quarantine facilities is just a pathetic distraction. I suggest you go to stuff and read the article by the pathologist that has just arrived in the country to take up a job and is in quarantine who says our system is the gold standard and one other countries should model themselves on.
You are making yourself look a little ridiculous here. A bit like Woodhouse with the homeless man
Yes. Because people disappearing for 70 minutes on one of the countries busiest streets, who are seen in a supermarket 5 minutes walk away and no more info, who are later found to be covid positive is merely a distraction.
I'm sure he was just picking up some drugs or sutin.
Or delivering drugs.
Bit feeble Chris T – a lot's happened since that walkabout, but don't worry, there will be others, and Boag/Walker/Woodhouse/Muller et al. will be all over them.
Once there have been a few more quarantine and managed isolation 'runners', the media can start compiling stats on their political affiliations.
In other news:
Oh the humanity.
Nah its not sticking Crusty, unlike…
Not good, and it should be criticized intelligently. Unfortunately, we don't have a credible Opposition party in this country.
The current people in charge are fucking useless, another scum bag has now wandered off from a Hamilton hotel. If this Government doesn't pull it's finger out of it's arse we will end up in lockdown again.
You really need to read up on the news before sounding off.
It's not hard, the details of his case are widely reported.
Have a lie down and a cuppa or a KitKat. You’re starting to sound like a National MP.
The army should be in charge! The police should be in charge! We're gonna have every bloody agency in charge soon, just to keep NZrs in a motel.
All that untapped electricity from Tiwai Pt should be used to charge them and zap hem into obeisance. If that doesn’t work, call Paul McKenna.
Ankle monitoring bracelets might work.
I think the very very public outing of the stale, pale male from Queenstown is a significant deterrence.
its.
If this Government doesn’t pull its finger……..
it’s
it’s not hard
Quite right, Ed. it's = abbreviation for 'it is', or 'it has'.
its = belonging to it.
As resident pedant, I was going to comment, but was pleased to see you raise the point.
Naki man's failure to properly control his apostrophes is utterly shambolic, and shows that he is utterly unfit to govern.
Way,way better than Shortland Street!
All that excess power that's coming Southland's way should be used to run a hydrogen plant for trucking fuel.
Thats an Interesting Idea.
They are doing one in taranki I just cant find the story again,
Wouldn't be surprised if a few proposals don't appear to take up that wodge of power. Tiwai's huge demand has precluded a lot of other possibilities in the South. Coal replacement in dairy processing, transport, either directly electric power or hydrogen like you mention, and maybe a silica industry in Southland
Woodhouse: “It was beyond my comprehension that anyone in the National Party could have done that.”
This unspeakable piece of work just said that on RNZ National. He is squirming under interrogation from Kathryn Ryan right now.
Transcript on the way, fellas!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Woodhouse#/media/File:Michael_Woodhouse.jpg
Looking forward to it, Morrissey.
The Nats Chinese spy dude has bit the bullet apparently and is standing down.
Has the mothership called him home? Is he needed in Hong Kong?
Lol
That's a positive move. Now when will Woodhouse stand down?
They could start a company with a fancy name that sounds all sort of legal:
Walker, Woodhouse & Yang
They could deal in ethics and suchlike.
Boag Key Walker Woodhouse Yang.
Legal ethics powerhouse.
At current rate it's not looking good for any Nat list candidates, or MPs. Sod all chance they’ll get enough Party votes to get any in off the list
Anyone missing the days when nothing happened on a Friday?
It's good that Yang is standing down. It's not good that as a result, the public will (probably) never know the full story.
Sorry, can't resist….
Tbf Friday has always been the day the current govt dump shit loads of dodgy stuff at about 5pm to stop it being in the news.
Helen and Key started the tradition, and the current lot are carrying it on.
Sure thing – keep your chin up.
Does that mean there are no Financial Donations coming Nationals way now
Or has he got his network up and running?
Very cynical of you, but quite possibly true.
Maybe, just maybe, Yang was the one with the mole in the MOH, and is worried about the potential fall out.
At the moment it's looking like "Rats leaving a sinking ship"
No. It means that those donations are less in the spotlight.
Nikki Kaye is lying very low through all this.
Waiting for her chance, before the election?
I don't think anyone wants it before the election. That's why they ended up with Todd.
Would anyone want the Leader role right now?
Let Todd take the fall
Prison for this.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/420919/man-arrested-after-cutting-through-fence-to-escape-hamilton-isolation-facility
Send them back to their place of origin, that way their free to do whatever they like, in another country.
All new entrants to NZ should be warned that is the penalty for NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES, no excuses.
I am not sure that is legal.
Prison.
No, probably not, but Laws can be changed in extraordinary circumstances.
Depends.
By NZ law and international treaties its illegal for NZ to send a person back where they came from if that person is in danger of being killed if they're sent back. Unfortunately, this applies even for criminals.
So we need to imprison them.
For enough time to act as a deterrent for others.
Name and shame them.
What if NZ is their place of origin?
Deportation is already part of the rules but it does need to be used more.
By place of origin I mean the place they arrived from, or more specifically the country they traveled from to get to the Safe Haven, NZ
But we can't do that to NZers as they have a right to be here and expect the government to look after them.
Of course, they don't have a right to break the rules and thus should be sent to prison. Considering how bad the possible consequences are from this guys actions that should be prison for a minimum of 21 years with solo confinement at the beginning.
As the potential exists for infection into the community, then the potential exists for someone to be infected by the escapee which could result in death.
21 Years sounds about right
Legally, we have to allow them home. No way around it nor should it even be considered.
Prison for these two…
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/420906/covid-19-privacy-leak-todd-muller-told-about-emails-on-tuesday
Idiot in Hamilton cuts through fence at isolation hotel, goes out to buy booze. Now in custody.
As I mentioned before, if 6000 people are in isolation, and 99.9% follow the rules, that still leaves 6 who don't. As long as isolation continues (and it will for months) then these stories are inevitable. Fuckwits don't disappear, anywhere on earth.
He was arrested. The alternative headline is "man shot while trying to escape". People should probably think about that.
The army is needed to run these operations.
Another one then.
It is only inevitable while the isolation security is so shit btw
What should the response be to a person cutting through, or climbing, a fence?
Think it through first. Assess the manpower needed, and the rules they would be required to follow.
Why wasn’t the fence encrypted and/or password protected? Obviously, the Minister of Health is incompetent and needs to go.
Yeah! let's roll in the tanks and gun em down!
FFS macho boys.
Torture them with Vogon poetry or worse, with apologies and mea culpas from National MPs and Leaders.
Incognito you surpass yourself! Great ideas – what did you have for breakfast?
You all might enjoy these pics from the past of jolly Oxford types. You can see where the joi de vivre of big teenage boys playing on an airport luggage carousel in NZ stems from.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/mens-style/bad-behaviour-oxford-80s-new-book-photographer-dafydd-jones/
So Chris, no self responsibility, I thought that was one of the main planks of National Party policy.
I say we send the offenders straight back to their place of origin with no chance of reentry for at least 6 months, let them cover their own costs.
I wouldn't know
What I am saying is maybe a bit of highlight should be put on how these people are being housed and looked after.
But no.
Who cares.
This escapee at least had to cut through a fence to go walkies. It's not like he was a convicted child abusing murderer who walked out of the front door of a prison having obtained a false passport and shamed the then corrections minister and government by flying to Brazil.
But he was trying for possible mass manslaughter. After all, his actions of escaping quarantine could have been the death of many people including children.
So, yeah, he's as bad as the child abusing murderer.
Not in my book. Bad, potential for a very bad outcome, but nowhere near kiddie fiddling and murder. But each to their own and all that.
He was breaking the rules because he felt he was more important than those he was putting at risk – exactly the same as the child fiddling murderer.
Not at all, really, but the point of my original reply was putting the claim "isolation security is so shit" in some context, where actual convicted offenders, in actual prisons, can and do escape.
We all care, Chris, and I'm sure you do too (not sarc).
But the people trying to run this thing also care, and have to deal with problems that are more or less infinite.
A small one, relevant today: Should there be alcohol in isolation? How is addiction treated? What are the risks/consequences of cold turkey?
Nobody can answer that with a one-liner. And it's only item 74 on the agenda.
I can
Have someone going to the bottle store/shop for them and delivering it back.
Next headline:
"Assault in hotel. Opposition demands to know why violent man was supplied with alcohol. Why were there no checks, says Woodhouse, adding something predictable about rocket science …"
Apparently the idiot brought one bottle of wine and a 4 pack of beer.
I doubt they are a aggro Andy
Wrong, that's exactly what he was.
Again, read the details of his case before jumping to conclusions.
Being charged with intentionally damaging a 52-inch television belonging to the Distinction Hotel put's your doubt into perspective.
No, it wouldn't do that. The only thing that could be used as is as an attack line by the immoral right-wing against the government – which, of course, is what's been happening.
The percentage of people escaping from quarantine is
0.005%
That's a pretty small number
And one was infected, who disappeared for 70 minutes to who knows where apart from a supermarket, which would have taken about 25 minutes
You mean Mr 0.00166% whose whereabouts have been ascertained and remedial action taken?
All good.
Everything is obviously being handled brilliantly.
That does seem to be the obvious inference from infection rates around the world.
Chris I think you gloating is so shit btw.
Just reported, another escapee, this time a quarantine facilty in Hamilton, the man in his 50s cut some cable ties on a fence to escape to the local bottle store
For me, the penalty for this should be to send the offenders back to wherever they came from, a strong message needs to sent, you're not welcome if you don't follow the rules.
The risk is too high to let these people potentially harm our safe haven that a Team of 5 million has so graciously worked towards.
Should smear Covid on his continental breakfast and force feed it to him.
And then send them back to their place origin.
I think United Nations rules say people must allowed to return to their countries?
Sending them back costs in itself. And anyway the men, I suppose but must not be sexist, are just showing typical NZ impudence about responsibility and booze and should blend in seamlessly when released.
Make them fund their own transport costs, if they can't, lock them up in complete isolation untill they're clear of infection and then release them into the normal prison population for at least 6 months, we need to send a clear message.
The people escaping seem to be encouraging others to follow suit as there appears to be no penalty that reflects the crime
A 50 year old that cant go 2 weeks without booze!! Almost gaurentees hes a kiwi born and breed. Maybe they should give them access to some 2.5 % beers, at their own cost.
Let them eat cake!
With a set of wire cutters baked in.
I see they've named and shamed him and packed him off to prison, hope they do it to the other one .
That's kinda why they're here. They're kiwis…
About time an example was made of these 2 sets of selfish *******
Quarantine offenders and the National Party – both need a serious penalty to encourage them to play for the team.
Maybe we should have them sign a contract on their arrival and put up a bond that was returnable after their isolation was complete, the bond would cover the cost of chasing them down and the subsequent cost of 6 months in jail.
Back to where they came from, the quarantine hotel?
No, the country of origin, where ever they arrived from, they don't deserve the right to come here if they don't respect the rules and potentially spread the virus
Relistically, the penalties need to reflect the potential harm, someone could possibly become infected as a result of escaping and end up being a fatality, Murder of the first degree.
Alternatively, stop all new arrivals, but that's not really fair for the 99.9% of arrivals that do follow the rules
They are probably kiwi citizens
Prison is the solution.
Chis, saying they're probably NZ citizens doesn't mean they born here
Nearly 20% of NZ citizens have come here over the 12 yrs
In which case having their permanent residence/NZ citizenship stripped from them and sending them back should be an option.
So you are saying that kiwi citizens only have certain rights if they are born here?
Forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick.
If I do have the right end, what is the point of people getting cictizenship?
And what year range are we talking?
Someone who is 30 and lived here 3 years is less of a real citizen than some 60 who has lived her since they were 2?
So your solution doesn't apply 80% of the time.
Even leading (or ex-) members of the National Party are NZ citizens, Chris T.
Yet they subvert our efforts.
Back to Queenstown in this latest case. Hellhole.
I hear Queenstown has greatly improved in recent months.
It may be indicative that he headed out for booze. Obviously we don't know in this particular case – but once you have several thousand people in quarantine there will be quite a number with significant substance dependency issues. It is showing just how difficult mass quarantine is. Though Toddy did indicate a while back that it's all simple – and he has 'business experience' so he must be right eh?
And what Observer said at 21 below.
How about we just dunk all returnees in orange dye that wears off in, say, 18 days.
Penalising all returnees isn't really a good option when you consder that the percentage of escapees to the number of retunees is extremely low
0.005%
Sounds like some libertarian alky prick who's not gunna be told wadda do by nobuddy. He better pay for the damaged tv. Wanker.
I know we all love easy, instant solutions, but they don't make good policy. Here is some relevant info from today's 1 pm briefing (Chris Hipkins):
– The Hamilton man is in police custody. He is due to appear in court later today.
– He tested negative for his day 3 test, after arriving from Sydney on 1 July.
Now, consider this. EVERY proposal about bubbles, opening borders, international students (etc) includes the idea that we can test people before they get on a plane. "Oh, make them have a test, and if it's negative, all good." Then we test them again when they arrive. That is the "safeguard" offered by everybody that says we should be gradually opening up.
This guy in Hamilton had a negative test. He's been here 9 or 10 days. Therefore, this one person breaking the rules means nothing, because we should be admitting thousands more like him. He has been tested. It was negative.
That is the reality of every – repeat, EVERY proposal to open up. Even a cautious, test and trace opening.
You either isolate or you don't. If we do, and ten escape, that is bad. If we don't, thousands escape. And their tests don't mean shit.
With National in self-imposed collapse has Rio Tinto read the writing on the wall?
Which is pretty much what they said last time and National came to their rescue with even more subsidies.
So, that wold be the plea for more subsides from the government.
Reading between the lines
Corporate Bludgers
Anyway, there's a bit of news around today, eh?
Memo to Roy Morgan: your latest poll is due, can you hold off until next week? Don’t want it buried …
Next week may turn out to be even worse for the National Party, this whole thing could completely unravel before their very eyes.
Lets hope
These absconders may have underlying addiction/mental health issues. Alcohol addiction, nicotine addiction, phobias such as being 'hindered' from being able to just be free and not held back from doing whatever. Drugs are freely available in the world and cheap as well in some countries. Are they being drug tested as some may be hanging out and wanting to get out to score. Apparently there was a disturbance in one of the hotels and police had to go in on two occasions to one person who was 'unhinged" and being stroppy and it was disclosed he/she had mental health issues.
Maybe a health check, blood tests done to see what is circulating in their systems once they get to their hotels so that if there is a substance reliance occurring they could be given the required medication for whatever they need to keep them docile for their stay. This health check could be written into their contract, as a condition for getting home to NZ prior to getting on the plane.
Its strange though that this absconding is only just happening now. One person does it and it becomes contagious and others want to do it too. Cutting through a fence is a sign of desperation though and that could be a booze/drug problem.
So anyway, turns out the Hamilton guy arrived from Sydney, and is from Queenstown, and is in custody.
So that's 3 separate knee-jerk talking points demolished … NSW bubble, bloody foreigners, and wet bus ticket.
It's as if armchair reckons won't solve everything after all.
288 new cases of Covid-19 reported in Victoria today.
26 linked to known outbreaks, 262 under investigation and none linked to returned travelers.
https://mobile.twitter.com/covidliveau/status/1281434824696201216
How long before ScoMoFo declares any kiwis testing positive are to be deported?
RNZ report on Hamilton booze buyer … my emphasis added:
"Police told the court that McVicar had been non-compliant while in isolation.
Community Magistrate Robyn Paterson said McVicar had been warned about his behaviour last Friday but then absconded on Thursday evening.
She said he had been particularly difficult to deal with in isolation and described his political beliefs as strong. …
She refused bail and remanded him in custody without plea to reappear in the Hamilton District Court on 15 July."
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/420941/man-charged-over-leaving-hamilton-isolation-facility-named
The gnatsys may have found their new candidate for Southland..
" described his political beliefs as strong. … "
What's the bet he favours personal liberty at the expense of the wellbeing of the wider community…which side of politics is that likely to be now?
TV1 news described him as a "Queenstown businessman" – which was enough to suggest everything you say, and more.
Is the mattress not up to his liking or does he want a bigger and better window view than anyone else and is the food to plain?
Maybe a billboard. NZ has eliminated community transmission and all New Zealander citizens and residents like it that way.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12347182
In custody till Tuesday.
It's shambolic! Why is Jacinda allowing people she's never met and has no control over to be abusive to staff?
Vote National and nobody in NZ will ever be abusive again, because Todd gets things done.
.
He's the kind of hard-living no-nonsense Maverick who gets the job done by cutting corners and bucking authority … and if those namby-pamby desk-sucking pen-pushers on the 9th floor of the Beehive don't like it then, Mister, they can just about swivel like a pig on this mid-digit.
Who’s the Oppo Leader who doesn’t give a frick
He’s a sex machine to all the chicks ?
Muller ?
Damn right !!!
Who’s the cat that won’t cop out when there is danger all about ?
Muller ?
Right on, Motherfucker !!!
Does anyone have a link to a good write up on what quarantine is like from the occupants perspective? What they are allowed to do, but also what their experience is like?
Various inmates (for want of a better word) have commented on social media and to the media in general, and they seem appreciative of the way they are looked after by staff. They understand the necessity for the rules and are happy to abide by them.
The handful of exceptions are either grossly ignorant or they have underlying problems.
stress, mental health issues, addiction, loneliness all come to mind as being pretty hard to manage in quarantine.
doesn't preclude someone also being a dick
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/420941/man-charged-over-leaving-hamilton-isolation-facility-named
Well, yeah – like for everyone who lived alone under level 4.
Here's a guy talking about doing it in April.
Under level four we were allowed to go outside. It's not quite the same. I would have thought L4 might have given us a bit more tolerance for how people manage stress.
Also, L4 at home vs confined to a hotel room eating what you are given. It's not a huge hardship relative to many things, but it's not nothing either. My thinking is mostly around if there are gaps eg people needing to self medicate with alcohol and not being able to.
Under level 4 many people couldn't go outside for as long as the mandated breaks this crowd have.
They have a smoking area, and at least one person said she had access to alcohol (but not massive amounts).
And we did it for longer than a fortnight.
This isn't an alien situation that most of us can't understand – we all experienced something in that ballpark. People in mansions with spare rooms and large gardens maybe had it less, but they were still restricted. And some of us in small dwellings probably have less square footage than some decent hotel rooms.
Two weeks is tough. We know. Because most of us did it three tiimes in a row.
Why couldn't L4 people go outside?
essential-only, remember? The folk in hotels get exercise sessions, and so did we, but we weren't supposed to be wandering on the beach cos we felt like it.
And that's not getting into specific circumstances, like maybe a "walk around the block" isn't an option for some people.
A 24 hr hotline for people in isolation or in quarantine free of charge.
I'm curious what support people are offered by the MoH. I know some people had a hard time in L4, I think this is worse.
Some sort of resource kit so a person can have some control over their situation.
Without looking up the name change and over a decade imprisonment. Some years back I saw some footage on David Bain on how he got through the time he spent in prison.
"All I had to worry about was the next 5 minutes."
I have applied this in my own life when I have been very overwhelmed or have felt very badly treated.
It has worked for me with some medical procedures/issues and personal set backs.
Yes, I've seen mostly positive reports too. I know a lot of people struggled during lockdown (note: not the current managed isolation) but it was wonderful to see community efforts to help those with mental health and/or addiction issues go out of their way to help them. Some offered to go shopping for cigarettes and alcohol, some offered to phone for a chat etc. It was really encouraging.
No link, but this week (or last), there was story in the papers about the lock down woman who grabbed a selfie with the PM. If I remember correctly, she had been blogging about being in quarantine.
Edit: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/07/covid-19-woman-blogging-about-quarantine-ecstatic-as-she-meets-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-upon-arrival-in-wellington.html
https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/10-04-2020/two-weeks-in-quarantine-at-home-in-an-auckland-hotel/
Not so long ago National was bleating that Jacinda and Labour were getting too much media coverage.
They can't complain now, because National has been in the media 24/7 recently and it's very likely to continue
Very good! Be careful what you wish for huh?