I complained bitterly at the time about the fact that "health & safety" stopped people being rescued from the rubble after the Chch earthquake. People died because of it. Nobody was found alive after about 24 hours – compare that to so very many other earthquakes around the world where people are found days later… The hand-wringing crowd caused extra deaths.
It is a disgrace and the government needs to get on top of this issue – it is causing unnecessary deaths. It will happen again – you watch. And if you find yourself in one of these situations, what are you going to do? Ignore the hand-wringers and save a life, at risk of later prosecution? Or comply with the stupid laws here and watch someone bleed to death (mosque), burn to death (whakaari), or be slowly squashed to death (Chch eq).
Every moral person wants to do magnanimous stuff. But if they are employed by someone, they and their magnanimity are constrained by the person who they work for. That's a PCBU.
A PCBU is a 'person conducting a business or undertaking'. The PCBU has the primary duty of care – the primary responsibility for people's health and safety at work.
So the morality of heroism is lovely. But the morality of sending an employee into harm's way is now backed up by strong law. Ask any manager or Board member whether they lose sleep before a risky operation.
Yeah, search and rescue should be cancelled until it is clear that no employee will even just hurt a toe.
Generally speaking, no member of any boards will ever loose their sleep over anything other then their income, their shares, theirs standing and in the words of Colin Powell, if i can't sleep i take Ambien – everyone takes Ambien.
Powell described his killer schedule in an interview Thursday with Abdul Rahman Al-Rashed, a reporter for a London-based Saudi newspaper.
"So do you use sleeping tablets to organize yourself?" Al-Rashed asked.
"Yes. Well, I wouldn't call them that," Powell said. "They're a wonderful medication — not medication. How would you call it? They're called Ambien, which is very good. You don't use Ambien? Everybody here uses Ambien."
Fact is that search and rescue is dangerous under many situations, but the people working search and rescue generally don't mind the risk. IF they wanted a risk free job they could have become an accountant or join politics, where no one ever is accuses of taking risks, or saving lives.
You miss the whole point, and download the expected hand-wringing Wellington bureaucrat response – I was expecting it. Well done. And that's it – you are one of those people ok with watching people get squashed, burned, or bleed to death. Poorly you.
The laws need changing. Changing so that people can go in and rescue if they wish and at their own risk. The employers and PCBU's need to fuck off in such situations – they are clearly totally incompetent in these situations, as is now amply proved – pike river, chch eq, mosque attack, whakaari – how much mroe evidence do we need that the current settings are deadly?
Sure, sometimes rescuers get lost themselves. That is part of it. My point still stands though – employers and PCBU's are not appropriate to be leading these situations. Neither are Police (earthquake, Pike River, mosque).
I think this whole area needs close examination and a re-working so that people can attempt rescues in situations which are considerably more risky than a "normal place of work", which these are most definitely not.
There is a massive hole at the moment, and people have died in New Zealand as a result – in the earthquake, at Pike River, at Whakaari and at the Mosques.
As I said above – how much more evidence do we need that the current settings are failing people's lives??
Mostly I agree with you, just forever pushing the legislative environment toward avoiding risk is a bad long term strategy. Sometimes risk is necessary, even when it entails a high price on the day.
But I suspect legislation is going to struggle if it attempts a legalistic prescription of 'where, when and how' rescue services should be allowed to act on a case by case basis. The risks are simply too specific and unique to every case.
On the other hand there is I think room for PCBU's to have access to a defense of 'considered and good faith effort' in conducting rescue operations in the event it all turns to custard.
It's also a societal values thing. I tend to your view, and I'm not sure what the answer is, other than to raise the issues and talk them through without that conversation being blocked.
Am curious how other countries manage the balance, and if part of the issue in NZ is that we just don't have that many emergencies. Would be interesting to compare situations like Whakaari and the Chch mosques, with situations where we do have a lot of experience eg land and sea search and rescue.
I think that's going a bit far. The systems do what they are designed to do: rescue people without putting workers and public at undue risk. Vto's points are valid, but I think it's more about where the balance should be. Also if the balance is shifted to saving more lives, how will workers be protected in that situation who don't want to risk their own lives further? It's one thing for people to voluntarily go into such a situation, it's another where livelihood, peer pressure, responsibility to colleagues etc is a factor.
It's one thing for people to voluntarily go into such a situation, it's another where livelihood, peer pressure, responsibility to colleagues etc is a factor.
People can be given options to refuse. There just has to be a will to make different policy. NZs are often doing risky things; some people will come forward who can handle the difficulties, are trustworthy, and want to give it a try. We aren't soft people or made up entirely of those who will stand around and emote when they could usefully do something.
you might be underestimating the pressure on people from macho culture. eg two people in a chopper, emergency happens, pilot wants to go, passenger doesn't. Pilot is passenger's boss. Not hard to see the unspoken pressures there.
You didn't mention Pike River. The accredited mine rescue crew were in all their gear ready to go in when they were stopped. Might have been a different outcome.
It is one thing being at the incident scene when it happens and another entering the incident scene. Entering the incident scene there is a chain of command. The chain of command can be tightened up to not delay a rescue. Resources and personal need to be deployed and NZ has limitations with this.
I watched most of Whakaari on TV 1 last night and the doctor and a senior paramedic arrived on Whakaari without gas masks for their own use. Without the gas masks they may of needed rescuing themselves. It was one of the private helicopter piolits who was first at the incident scene who provided the gas masks as he was at the right place at the right time.
There are basically 4 main events in recent history where that has happened:
Pike river
ChCh earthquake
Gunman
Whakaari
Only one of those involved the experts being overruled by a scene supervisor who was much less qualified than the people wanting to go in – Pike river. The mines rescue personnel knew there was a window to go in before gas could mix to form another explosion.
The other three involved unknown risks that could not be reasonably assessed based on the information at the time: would there be a bigger eruption, a bigger earthquake, another gunman/ied.
An old but relevant saying is "fools rush in where angels fear to tread".
Yeah but they're not stupid about it. And (this being the important bit) they're trained to assess and mitigate specific risks. Like the Mines Rescue folk.
Similarly, we have trained life guards who can rescue swimmers safely, rather than the occasional person who drowns while trying to save someone else.
Twenty or thirty years ago, the first rule taught in first aid if you came across a scene was to assess your own safety first. If you get into trouble, now you have to be rescued (or recovered), too. And then when one person runs in without thinking, other people run in, and it's all uncoordinated and shit can go badly wrong there, too.
Folk wanting to fly helicopters into a volcano were the same folk who were doing helicopter tours of the vocano before it went boom. They could not assess the risk accurately. Jim wants to run into a charnel house before it's confirmed that there are no more active shooters? Is Jim trained to deal with that situation if another arsehole is there, or will he just be another victim to triage? People wanting to clamber over unstable rubble to rescue others – could they do it without further endangering themselves or survivors in the rubble, or did they have little idea about how to go about it?
Pike River seems to be an issue of a risk-averse scene commander not appreciating the expertise of the people who wanted to go in. Not the best call, but better than letting have-a-go heroes run in and get their arses blown up.
A blanket no seems to be the approach. Keep those people to the side and get them to sort out who has knowledge and who has gear and so on. Then have a combined discussion about what the situation is and everyone shut up and listen and look at a plan/whiteboard with basic info and map, and strike a plan then. No rushing in, no ignoring suitable helpers.
That last sentence is just an assumption on your part. People who would risk their loves to go in could have some mechanical support, but sign a waiver. If they did get their arses blown off the families would know they did everything they could and that it was always possible that the risk had not been assessed right. I wouldn't do it of course as I would not have the knowledge or the fitness, but police and authorities could work with willing people and utilise them where possible.
What does the waiver say – "if I'm stranded, don't come save me"? What does the waiver say if someone rushing in actually does something to make the problem worse because they had no idea what they were doing? Not just endangering the people they were trying to save, but say destabilising the structure even further, or blocking the remaining landing site with their own helicopter wreck?
And it sucks, but letting people go in and die after their loved ones is just worse for the remaining loved ones.
I prefer society to err on the side of safety, myself.
feeling slightly philosophical this morning and thinking about NZers and the remarkable resilience of deep cultural trends that hibernate deep in the warp and weft of the national sub conscious.
There is a famous apocryphal story from WW2 where Bernard Montgomery was visiting 2nd NZ Division with Bernard Freyberg and complained that NZ soldiers didn't salute as they drove past "Ah," said Freyberg, "But if you wave, they'll wave back." In other words, we are basically of an empirically sunny disposition and quite friendly if you are nice.
Compared to English or US nationalism NZers are not demonstratively nationalistic. Most of us don't know the Maori version of the national anthem, which sounds bad until you consider nobody knows the English version either.
But when we were asked nicely, we put our countries needs ahead of our own immediate convenience in a way that the frankly degenerate behaviour of the nationalists in the UK and USA did not. We should all be a little bit proud of ourselves as 2020 draws to an end.
I think loyalty to one's class is more important. Class conflict politically is much less boring than the grey present. If only our working class would unite and support a political party worth opposing !!!!! By the way, do we still have a working class ?
This trouble you are having with this word 'we', does seem a tad selective. A quick scan shows other instances of people using it in this very thread without provoking this level of concern. For example right above Sanctuary says:
But when we were asked nicely
Did you have the same trouble here? Or is it just when I use the word?
Someone on twitter was talking about the "patriots" meeting that got cancelled by the venue this week – calling themselves "patriots" shows their ideological roots as being a bit more American than NZ. Irony.
I have been contrasting what little I know about employment law and what I know about a mental injury that ACC covers.
A person is harassed at work and they win their case and recieve a payment for psychological distress. A person does not have a physical injury and they were caught up in a terrorist attack and have psychological distress they get nothing other than offered counselling through the mental health system if it is rolled out in your area.
There is something very amiss when it comes to the 1961 Crimes Act being used by ACC to determine cover for a non physical mental injury. Crimes of organisational failure are not included, neither is a terrorist attack or an SIS cover up.
I would argue that the brain is as physical as the rest of the body and should not be excluded from cover.
I had a relative who took ACC to court over a chemical poisoning case. Causation had to be proved. What chemical test ACC accepted for causation was not stated by ACC.
It would be 30 years ago, firefighters and Dr Matt Tizard and Eva.
Yet people are covered for asbestos 30 years after exposure.
Cleangreen had a lot to say about his ill health relating to chemical poisoning. Havenn't heard from him lately. He may have given himself a break after putting so much thought and time into the two things – chemicals and freight trains where needed.
Yes, and all of these clear anomalies were never intended and would never have arisen if the nats hadn't won the election in 1975. Successive Labour governments have at no time made any effort whatsoever to fix this monumental fuck-up. This government will be no different.
Yes a monumental f up re ACC. It really went pear shaped in 1992 under National. Labour did a bit of a fix up in 2001. Major reform required in 2021 for mental injury without a physical cause.
Cooper Law has 1100 settlements and 1400 pending.
How many people eligible for ACC, a mental injury have not applied?
The ineligible cases who would have been eligible under the 1982 ACC Act is disturbing.
The point that needs to pushed is that the ACC scheme was never meant to restrict itself to injury caused by accident, but was also to include sickness and disability. The first set of recommendations from the Woodhouse Report were introduced by way of the 1972 Act, and provisions dealing with sickness and disability were meant to follow soon after. Labour lost the 1975 election so the latter didn't happen. Now we're stuck with the ridiculous situation where ACC is turning down thousands of claims a year saying the injury wasn't caused by an accident. If the recommendations of the Woodhouse Report had been implemented, as the government back then said they would be, we wouldn't be in this mess.
This is the pivotal issue that represents all that is wrong with the ACC scheme as it currently stands. When this was put to him as minister Lees-Galloway refused to acknowledge there was a problem. If his gutlessness is any indication of the current government's position then they too won't have the balls to do anything about it. It's the elephant in the room when problems with the fuck-up that is ACC are raised.
Susan St John and others have written a lot about this. Here's a brief article of hers on the topic but there's a lot more detailed historical analysis around. It’s the history of the scheme that’s likely to be most powerful in terms of the change needed.
I'm a little unsettled myself reading this contradictory item from some two-faced money manager.
The pandemic has exposed the perils of playing the stock market, leaving some KiwiSavers the poorer. ASB's latest report on its KiwiSaver funds indicates sharemarket volatility has got the better of some of its customers this year, with 6 percent switching to lower risk cash and conservative funds in March as Covid-19 saw sharemarkets plunge.
Senior bank economist Chris Tennent-Brown said many of those investors missed out on the rapid recovery that occurred from April onwards.
The background to the KiwiSaver investments is to ensure safety, invest wisely, and with an eye to the long term. As I understand it, and how I think it should be. Economists who think like my favourite cartoon investment advisor Alex who always knows the angles to better himself, can just stay schtum. KiwiSaver should stick to its knitting.
If KiwiSaver investment firms changed their holdings as a result of Covid expectations, that is not 'playing the stock market' to get the best immediate return. That quoted sentence is totally at odds with the type of fund that Kiwi Saver is. And that commenter should just stick to 'The wise old owl' rhyme which finishes with saying that the less he spoke the more he heard.’ Good advice.
Here is an example of why the canard that National voters tactically voted for Labour to be rid of Green influence needs to be destroyed.
This is a quote from outgoing energy spokesman for National, Jonathan Young, in an interview in late October in Energy News.
"With Labour likely to maintain some form of relationship with the Green Party, Young is worried what this might mean.
But he also has hope that Labour will recognise that landslide was partly driven by strategic voters from other parties who were worried about the influence of the Greens in government – and this might make the incoming government less aligned to the Greens and more pragmatic in its approach."
This canard should be disposed of by the very recent poll, but the Young quotation shows the importance that belief in the tactical tory vote has for them- instead of accepting that the National vote went way down, and part of the reason might be that National's energy policy was not acceptable along with many other tired and outdated beliefs.
The campaign is pushing for Pharmac to bring the drug Stelara into the country. That drug could potentially stop people from having to go through invasive surgery.
“If we could prevent that, that would be amazing.”
This is a good idea. Those of us who tend towards incontinency will have some idea of the difficulties.
The desktop report, requested by the council, notes dairy farming takes place on nearly a third of the district's agricultural land and would be the hardest hit financially.
"The regulations will challenge existing farming systems with a number of established farm practices needing to change, and new technology and innovation adoption will be required." It conservatively estimated that farm profitability would collectively decline more than $57 million, while farm expenditure would fall by about $140 million.
Ashburton District Mayor Neil Brown said that to drop nitrate levels in lowland streams in the required timeframe, farmers would have to have fewer animals. "They will have to reduce their stocking rates on their farms to meet the requirements and that will lower the net profitability of the farm."
One mad idea I had was to 'toilet train' cows. There is a phenomenon that cows will piss and shit more when their feet are in water. So obviously, we'd prefer they're not in the streams. Anyway…
They congregate at the shed so the trick might be to design the shed in such a manner they stand in water. Maybe standing in the yard pre-milking, but they're packed in so it'd get messy with cows defecating on each other. As they're actually milking would also work, but then it's the farmer copping more shit.
But if you can direct more of the shit and piss to one place you can manage it better to reduce pollution (solid screening – > composting (solids) and biodigestion – > feed production via azolla – > wetlands).
Then the piss and shit delivers: biogas, compost, feed, water storage, aquaculture, biodiversity and drought resistance.
That seems a bit paranoid. In that manner one could also claim riparian planting is a solution to overstocking. Or anything that brings down levels of N in our waterways.
The problem is shit in the rivers and Farmer's justifiable fear of losing income. I clearly outlined how to reduce pollution using tried and true appropriate tech including: composting, biodigestion, aquaculture to polish water, and wetlands for detoxification processes. This all works with/without cows in standing water. It also provides opportunity and useful products.
To maintain profits with lower numbers of beasts production per beast needs to be higher, or overheads lower, or alternate income/inputs realised. Bottom line is to show farmers a respectable/comparable bottom line without having to jack up number of beasts or inputs.
It surprises me you'd see a composting system as a problem. Am I simply wasting my time.
Also I think farmers have found that they can run less cows and make more money. Sounds magical to me, but a combination of factors seem to keep up the profitability overall I think.
We need to be encouraging regenag to see. Even if just one paddock on every farm, farm working groups to support etc, linking it into the cycles used for the rest of the farm.
$$$$$ chasing can be the cause of higher than needed inputs of fertiliser, over use of antibiotics etc.
I've been reading about the gypsy people. They were tight-knit and had a good life with good values. I think it would be well worth people finding a set of values and sticking by the best of them, instead of just doing whatever is done on tv. They designed their own vardos (vans) and their own designs and were happy.
Good book by Eva Petulengro – The Girl in the Painted Caravan
Born into a Romany Gypsy Family in 1939, Eva Petulengro's childhood seemed to her to be idyllic in every way. She would travel the country with her family in their painted caravan and spend evenings by the fire as they sang and told stories of their past. She didn't go to school or visit a doctor when she was unwell. Instead her family would gather wild herbs to make traditional remedies, hunt game and rabbits for food, and while the men tended horses to make a living, the young girls would join the women in reading palms. But in the post-war era, Eva's perfect world would be turned upside down…
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Christina SzalinskiWhen Martha Field became pregnant in 2005, a singular fear weighed on her mind. Not long before, as a Cornell University graduate student researching how genes and nutrients interact to cause disease, she had seen images of unborn mouse pups smaller than her pinkie nail, some with ...
Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, the Democratic candidates for President and Vice President respectively for the US 2020 Election, may have dispensed with the erstwhile nemesis, Trump the candidate – but there are numerous critical openings through which much, much worse many out there may yet see fit to ...
I don’t know Taupō well. Even though I stop off there from time to time, I’m always on the way to somewhere else. Usually Taupō means making a hot water puddle in the gritty sand followed by a swim in the lake, noticing with bemusement and resignation the traffic, the ...
Frances Williams, King’s College LondonFor most people, infection with SARS-CoV-2 – the virus that causes COVID-19 – leads to mild, short-term symptoms, acute respiratory illness, or possibly no symptoms at all. But some people have long-lasting symptoms after their infection – this has been dubbed “long COVID”. Scientists are ...
Last night, a British court ruled that Julian Assange cannot be extradited to the US. Unfortunately, its not because all he is "guilty" of is journalism, or because the offence the US wants to charge him with - espionage - is of an inherently political nature; instead the judge accepted ...
Is the Gender Identity Movement a movement for human liberation, or is it a regressive movement which undermines women’s liberation and promotes sexist stereotypes? Should biological males be allowed to play in women’s sport, use women-only spaces (public toilets, changing rooms, other facilities), be able to have access to everything ...
Ian Whittaker, Nottingham Trent University and Gareth Dorrian, University of BirminghamSpace exploration achieved several notable firsts in 2020 despite the COVID-19 pandemic, including commercial human spaceflight and returning samples of an asteroid to Earth. The coming year is shaping up to be just as interesting. Here are some of ...
Michael Head, University of SouthamptonThe UK has become the first country to authorise the Oxford-AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine for public use, with roll-out to start in the first week of 2021. This vaccine is the second to be authorised in the UK – following the Pfizer vaccine. The British government ...
So, Boris Johnson has been footering about in hospitals again. We should be grateful, perhaps, that on this occasion the Clown-in-Chief is only (probably) getting in the way and causing distractions, rather than taking up a bed, vital equipment and resources and adding more strain and danger to exhausted staff.Look at ...
Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... SkS in the News... Coming Soon on SkS... Poster of the Week... SkS Week in Review... Story of the Week... Many Scientists Now Say Global Warming Could Stop Relatively Quickly After Emissions Go to ZeroThat’s one of several recent ...
The situation in the UK is looking catastrophic.Cases: over *70,000* people who were tested in England on 29th December tested positive. This is *not* because there were more tests on that day. It *is* 4 days after Christmas though, around when people who caught Covid on Christmas Day might start ...
by Don Franks For five days over New Year weekend, sixteen prisoners in the archaic pre WW1 block of Waikeria Prison defied authorities by setting fires and occupying the building’s roof. They eventually agreed to surrender after intervention from Maori party co-leader Rawiri Waititi. A message from the protesting men had stated: ...
Lost Opportunity: The powerful political metaphor of the Maori Party leading the despised and marginalised from danger to safety, is one Labour could have pre-empted by taking the uprising at Waikeria Prison much more seriously. AS WORD OF Rawiri Waititi’s successful intervention in the Waikeria Prison stand-off spreads, the Maori ...
As we welcome in the new year, our focus is on continuing to keep New Zealanders safe and moving forward with our economic recovery. There’s a lot to get on with, but before we say a final goodbye to 2020, here’s a quick look back at some of the milestones ...
Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. “Following confirmation of the Cook Islands’ COVID ...
Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. “Our top priority continues ...
Today’s deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. “The deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. “ABAC helps ensure that APEC’s work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
The Government’s prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealand’s local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Given the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, it’s clear that ...
$36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
The commemoration of the 175th anniversary of the Battle of Ruapekapeka represents an opportunity for all New Zealanders to reflect on the role these conflicts have had in creating our modern nation, says Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Kiri Allan. “The Battle at Te Ruapekapeka Pā, which took ...
Babies born with tongue-tie will be assessed and treated consistently under new guidelines released by the Ministry of Health, Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. Around 5% to 10% of babies are born with a tongue-tie, or ankyloglossia, in New Zealand each year. At least half can ...
The prisoner disorder event at Waikeria Prison is over, with all remaining prisoners now safely and securely detained, Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says. The majority of those involved in the event are members of the Mongols and Comancheros. Five of the men are deportees from Australia, with three subject to ...
Travellers from the United Kingdom or the United States bound for New Zealand will be required to get a negative test result for COVID-19 before departing, and work is underway to extend the requirement to other long haul flights to New Zealand, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins confirmed today. “The new PCR test requirement, foreshadowed last ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has added her warm congratulations to the New Zealanders recognised for their contributions to their communities and the country in the New Year 2021 Honours List. “The past year has been one that few of us could have imagined. In spite of all the things that ...
Attorney-General and Minister for the Environment David Parker has congratulated two retired judges who have had their contributions to the country and their communities recognised in the New Year 2021 Honours list. The Hon Tony Randerson QC has been appointed a Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit for ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says the New Year’s Honours List 2021 highlights again the outstanding contribution made by Pacific people across Aotearoa. “We are acknowledging the work of 13 Pacific leaders in the New Year’s Honours, representing a number of sectors including health, education, community, sports, the ...
The Government’s investment in digital literacy training for seniors has led to more than 250 people participating so far, helping them stay connected. “COVID-19 has meant older New Zealanders are showing more interest in learning how to use technology like Zoom and Skype so they can to keep in touch ...
Dairy prices increased by 3.9% across the board at the latest Fonterra global auction. The lift followed rises of 1.3% and 4.3% in the December auctions which took dairy prices to their highest level in 11 months, defying those analysts who believed Covid-19 had disrupted dairy markets. In the latest ...
America's Cup team American Magic has spoken publicly after their boat Patriot capsized when on its way to their first win of the Challenger Selection Series yesterday. Patriot dramatically capsized yesterday, becoming temporarily airborne before crashing back into the water and tipping. The boat, helmed by New Zealander Dean Barker, could not be ...
It’s a seemingly age old question: why do Auckland’s beaches become unswimmable after every single downpour? Stewart Sowman-Lund investigates.Ah, the beach. A staple of the New Zealand summer. Unless, of course, you’re based in Auckland and it’s raining. The start of 2021 has been a lot like every other New ...
We have opened a book, among members of the Point of Order team, on how long it will be before the PM offers to sort out the land dispute at Wellington’s Shelly Bay and (to win the double) how much the settlement will cost taxpayers. Just a few weeks ago ...
Breakfast TV news is back for 2021, and Tara Ward got up early to watch. “Thank god it’s almost Christmas,” John Campbell said during the opening minutes of Breakfast’s premiere episode of the year. “2021’s been rough so far. I’m buggered”. We’re all buggered, to be fair, but I’m worried that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Pearson, Professor of Journalism and Social Media, Griffith Centre for Social and Cultural Research, Griffith University, Griffith University The blame for the recent assault on the US Capitol and President Donald Trump’s broader dismantling of democratic institutions and norms can be ...
Despite a popular and unifying leader of the governing party, divisions both in policy and culture will test the progressive movement, writes Peter McKenzie.‘I think we’re confused.” Marlon Drake is an organiser for the Living Wage Movement. His job takes him all over Wellington, trying to convince businesses to increase ...
Covid-19 Recovery Minister Chris Hipkins says vaccinations should be available to the public by the middle of the year, but other countries are prioritised. ...
It’s as true now as it ever has been: nowhere else offers an education experience like that of Dunedin. But rather than resting on their laurels, the University of Otago and Otago Polytechnic have plans to make the city an even more inspiring place for students.From high in the summit ...
Haggis, neeps and tatties and whisky may not be a traditional spread for a summer gathering in NZ, but trust Auckland city councillor and Kiwi-Scot Cathy Casey on this one. Gie it laldy! Rule one: Hold it on (or near) January 25Robert Burns was born on January 25, 1759. Since the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Tuffley, Senior Lecturer in Applied Ethics & CyberSecurity, Griffith University It could be argued artificial intelligence (AI) is already the indispensable tool of the 21st century. From helping doctors diagnose and treat patients to rapidly advancing new drug discoveries, it’s our ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Kenny, Professor, Australian Studies Institute, Australian National University Through recent natural disasters, global upheavals and a pandemic, Australia’s political centre has largely held. Australians may have disagreed at times, but they have also kept faith with governmental norms, eschewing the false ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Holly Seale, Associate professor, UNSW Health workers are at higher risk of COVID infection and illness. They can also act as extremely efficient transmitters of viruses to others in medical and aged care facilities. That’s why health workers have been prioritised to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jim Orchard, Adjunct Lecturer, Monash University Last week, somewhat overshadowed by the events in Washington, the Democrats took control of the US Senate. The Democrats now hold a small majority in both the House and the Senate until 2022, giving President-elect Joe ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mittul Vahanvati, Lecturer, School of Global, Urban and Social Studies, RMIT University Heatwaves, floods, bushfires: disaster season is upon us again. We can’t prevent hazards or climate change-related extreme weather events but we can prepare for them — not just as individuals ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mandie Shean, Lecturer, School of Education, Edith Cowan University Starting school is an important event for children and a positive experience can set the tone for the rest of their school experience. Some children are excited to attend school for the first ...
Some families in emergency housing are reporting their children are becoming emotionally distressed because of their living conditions. Demand for emergency accommodation has escalated this past year with the number of emergency housing grants increasing by half. Data showed nearly 10,000 people were given an Emergency Housing Special Needs Grant between ...
Summer reissue: Michèle A’Court, Alex Casey and Leonie Hayden are back for a second season of On the Rag, and where better to start than with the mysterious, exhausting world of wellness?First published June 23, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The Spinoff’s journalism is ...
With few Covid-19 infections and negiligible natural immunity, New Zealand faces being a victim of its own success when it is left till last to get the vaccines, argues Dr Parmjeet Parmar. ...
Steve Braunias reports on a literary cancelling. The Corrections department has refused to allow Jared Savage's best-selling book Gangland inside prison on the grounds that it "promotes violence and drug use". An inmate at Otago Corrections Facility in Dunedin was sent a copy of the book – but it was ...
New data from the CTU’s annual work life survey shows a snapshot of working people’s experiences and outlook heading out of 2020 and into the new year. Concerningly 42% of respondents cite workplace bullying as an issue in their workplace - a number ...
The dramatic capsize of American Magic brought out the best in the America's Cup sailing fraternity. But, Suzanne McFadden asks, what does it mean to the crippled New York Yacht Club campaign and to the Prada Cup? It was a scene as unreal as it was calamitous. Right at the moment the ...
An international player, selector and self-confessed cricket stats nerd, Penny Kinsella has now played a hand in recording the rich history of the women's game in New Zealand. Penny Kinsella’s cricketing career was perched on the cusp of change for the White Ferns. “My first tour to Australia, we ...
The current number of members of parliament is starting to get too low for the job we expect them to do, argues Alex Braae. As a general rule, with the possible exception of their families, nobody likes backbench MPs. But it’s nevertheless time we accepted that parliament should have more of ...
The experience in the Brazilian city of Manaus reveals how mistaken, and dangerous, the herd-immunity-by-infection theory really is. As families around the world mourn more than two million people dead from Covid-19, the Plan B academics and their PR industry collaborator continue to argue that the New Zealand government should stop ...
As New Zealand gears up to fight climate change, experts warn that we need to actually reduce emissions, not just plant trees to offset our greenhouse gases. ...
A nationwide poll has found majority support for the government to continue to closely monitor abortions in New Zealand and the reasons for it, despite the Ministry of Health recently suggesting that there is not a use for collecting much of this information. ...
The out-of-control growth in gangs, gun crime, and violent gang activity is exposing our communities to dangerous levels of violence that will inevitably end in tragedy, says Sensible Sentencing Trust. “The recent incidents of people being shot and ...
Successive governments have paid lip service to our productivity challenge but have failed to deliver. It's time to establish a Productivity Council charged with prioritising efforts. ...
Understanding the connection between chronic fatigue syndrome and ‘long Covid’ might be helpful in treating symptoms that doctors will find all too easy to dismiss.When people began to report signs of “long Covid”, characterised by a lack of full recovery from the virus and debilitating fatigue, I recognised their stories. ...
Nadine Anne Hura, who never considered herself an artist, reflects on what art and making has taught her.I couldn’t clean or cook or wash the clothes, but I could sew. That’s a lie, I’m a terrible sewer, but I left work early to fossick around in the $1 bin of ...
Summer reissue: In the final episode of this season of Bad News, Alice is joined by Billy T award winner Kura Forrester to look at how well we’re honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi in 2020.First published September 3, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The ...
Lucy Revill’s The Residents is a blog about daily life in Wellington that has morphed into a stylish, low-key coffee-table book featuring interviews and photographic portraits of 38 Wellingtonians. In this extract, Revill profiles Eboni Waitere, owner and executive director of Huia Publishers. The Residents features names like Monique Fiso ...
Pacific Media Watch correspondent The pro-independence conflict in West Papua with a missionary plane reportedly being shot down at Intan Jaya has stirred contrasting responses from the TNI/POLRI state sources, church leaders and an independence leader. A shooting caused a plane to catch fire on 6 January 2021 in the ...
“Last year ACT warned that rewarding protestors at Ihumātao with taxpayer money would promote further squatting. We just didn’t think it would happen as quickly as it is in Shelly Bay” says ACT Leader David Seymour. “The prosperity of all ...
Our kindly PM registered her return to work as leader of the nation with yet another statement on the Beehive website, the second in two days (following her appointment of Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council on Wednesday). It’s great to know we don’t have to check with ...
A Pūhoi pub is refusing to remove a piece of memorabilia bearing the n-word from its walls. Dr Lachy Paterson looks at the history of the word here, and New Zealand’s complicity in Britain’s shameful slave trading past.Content warning: This article contains racist language and images.On a pub wall in ...
Supermarket shoppers looking for citrus are seeing a sour trend at the moment – some stores are entirely tapped out of lemons. But why? Batches of homemade lemonade will be taking a hit this summer, with life not giving New Zealand shoppers lemons. Prices are high at supermarkets and grocers that ...
You’re born either a cheery soul or a gloomy one, reckons Linda Burgess – but what happens when gene pools from opposite ends of the spectrum collide?In our shoeboxes of photos that we have to sort out before we die or get demented – because who IS that kid on ...
Summer reissue: Prisoner voting rights are something that few in government seem particularly motivated to do anything about. Could a catchy charity single help draw attention to the issue?First published September 1, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The Spinoff’s journalism is funded by its ...
Hundreds more Cook Islanders are expected to begin criss-crossing the Pacific, Air NZ will triple the number of flights to Rarotonga next week, and about 300 managed isolation places will be freed up for Kiwis returning from other parts of the world. When Thomas Tarurongo Wynne took a job in Wellington at ...
SPECIAL REPORT:By Ena Manuireva in Auckland It seems a long time ago – some 124 days – since Mā’ohi Nui deplored its first covid-19 related deaths of an elderly woman on 11 September 2020 followed by her husband just hours later, both over the age of 80. The local ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Turnbull, Postdoctoral research associate, UNSW A global coalition of more than 50 countries have this week pledged to protect over 30% of the planet’s lands and seas by the end of this decade. Their reasoning is clear: we need greater protection ...
The Reserve Bank Governor’s apology and claim he will ‘own the issue’ is laughable given the lack of answers and timing of its release. Jordan Williams, a spokesman for the Taxpayers’ Union said: “It’s been five days since they came clean, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Olga Kokshagina, Researcher – Innovation & Entrepreneurship, RMIT University Are too many online meetings and notifications getting you down? Online communication tools – from email to virtual chat and video-conferencing – have transformed the way we work. In many respects they’ve made ...
The Reserve Bank acknowledges information about some of its stakeholders may have been breached in a malicious data hack. The Governor of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand has commissioned an independent inquiry into how stakeholders' information was compromised when hackers breached a file sharing service used by the bank. “We ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caitlin Syme, PhD in Vertebrate Palaeontology, The University of Queensland This story contains spoilers for Ammonite Palaeontologist Mary Anning is known for discovering a multitude of Jurassic fossils from Lyme Regis on England’s Dorset Coast from the age of ten in 1809. ...
A tribute to the sitcoms of old? In the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Yup. Sam Brooks reviews the audacious WandaVision.Nothing sends a chill up my spine like the phrase “Marvel Cinematic Universe”. Since launching in 2008 with Iron Man, the MCU has become a shambling behemoth, with over 23 films (not ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University The alt-right, QAnon, paramilitary and Donald Trump-supporting mob that stormed the US Capitol on January 6 claimed they were only doing what the so-called “founding fathers” of the US had done in ...
The Point of Order Ministerial Workload Watchdog and our ever-vigilant Trough Monitor were both triggered yesterday by an item of news from the office of Conservation Minister Kititapu Allan. The minister was drawing attention to new opportunities to dip into the Jobs for Nature programme (and her statement was the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andreas Kupz, Senior Research Fellow, James Cook University In July 1921, a French infant became the first person to receive an experimental vaccine against tuberculosis (TB), after the mother had died from the disease. The vaccine, known as Bacille Calmette-Guérin (BCG), is ...
The first Friday Poem for 2021 is by Wellington poet Rebecca Hawkes.While you were partying I studied the bladeI your ever-loving edgelord God-emperorof the bot army & bitcoin mine subsistingon an IV drip of gamer girl bathwaterfinally my lonelinessis your responsibility………. you seeI need a girlfriend assigned to me by the ...
The arming of police officers in Canterbury was inevitable with the growing numbers and brazenness of the gangs across the country – this should be a permanent step, says Sensible Sentencing Trust. “It is unfortunate that we have come to the point ...
Celebrations in Aotearoa New Zealand to mark the entry into force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) will begin on Thursday 21 January with ICAN Aotearoa New Zealand’s Wellington and online event, and continue on Friday ...
Hardly anyone is using their Covid Tracer app. Something needs to change.As the mercury approaches 30°C in Aotearoa, there is a good deal of slipping and slopping, but, let’s face it, piss-all scanning. As few as around 500,000 QR codes are being scanned by users of the NZ Covid Tracer ...
On the East Coast, a group of Māori-owned enterprises is innovating to create new revenue streams while doing what they love.New Zealand’s remote and sparsely populated regions are typically not the best places to create thriving brick-and-mortar businesses. In small communities miles away from any major centres, there are so ...
As we reach the height of summer, it’s not too late to do a safety check on your gas bottle. The Environmental Protection Authority’s Safer Homes programme has some tips and tricks to keep in mind before you fire up the grill. "If you’ve ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1Troy: The Siege of Troy Retold by Stephen Fry (Michael Joseph, $37)If you’re in any way unsure about ...
“We may as well knock on the gang headquarters around this country and tell them we all give up," says Darroch Ball co-leader of Sensible Sentencing Trust. “It is simply outrageous that violent offender, James Tuwhangai, has been released from ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Ireland, Israel, and Lebanon. Chart by Keith Rankin. The countries with the most recent large outbreaks of Covid19 are those with large numbers of recent recorded cases, but yet to record the deaths that most likely will result. In this camp, this time, are Ireland, Israel ...
RuPaul is in Aotearoa, kicking back in managed isolation to await the filming of an Australasian version of her hugely popular reality show Drag Race. But not everyone is happy about, explains Eli Matthewson. The world’s most famous drag queen, RuPaul, is in New Zealand, the government confirmed earlier this week ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Melleuish, Professor, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong What can we make of Clive Palmer? This week, he announced his United Australia Party (UAP) would not contest the upcoming West Australian state election on March 13. After a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gisela Kaplan, Emeritus Professor in Animal Behaviour, University of New England Have you ever seenmagpies play-fighting with one another, or rolling around in high spirits? Or an apostlebird running at full speed with a stick in its beak, chased by a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Jackson, Program Director, Centre for Policy Development, and Associate Professor of Education, Mitchell Institute, Victoria University Childcare centres across Australia are suffering staff shortages, which have been exacerbated by the COVID crisis. Many childcare workers across Australia left when parents started ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Barrett, Senior Lecturer in Taxation, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington Rhetoric plays an important role in tax debate and therefore tax policy. If your side manages to gain traction in the public imagination with labels such as “death ...
*This article was first published on The Conversation and is republished with permission* Whoever leads the Republican Party post-Trump will need to consider how they will maintain the rabid support of his “base”, while working to regain more moderate voters who defected from the party in the 2020 election. In a historic ...
I complained bitterly at the time about the fact that "health & safety" stopped people being rescued from the rubble after the Chch earthquake. People died because of it. Nobody was found alive after about 24 hours – compare that to so very many other earthquakes around the world where people are found days later… The hand-wringing crowd caused extra deaths.
It happened with Whakaari White Island too,
And now it is clear that is also happened during the Chrstchurch mosque attacks. Appalling. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/300179435/terror-attack-victims-bled-to-death-inside-police-cordon .
It is a disgrace and the government needs to get on top of this issue – it is causing unnecessary deaths. It will happen again – you watch. And if you find yourself in one of these situations, what are you going to do? Ignore the hand-wringers and save a life, at risk of later prosecution? Or comply with the stupid laws here and watch someone bleed to death (mosque), burn to death (whakaari), or be slowly squashed to death (Chch eq).
Every moral person wants to do magnanimous stuff. But if they are employed by someone, they and their magnanimity are constrained by the person who they work for. That's a PCBU.
A PCBU is a 'person conducting a business or undertaking'. The PCBU has the primary duty of care – the primary responsibility for people's health and safety at work.
So the morality of heroism is lovely. But the morality of sending an employee into harm's way is now backed up by strong law. Ask any manager or Board member whether they lose sleep before a risky operation.
Yeah, search and rescue should be cancelled until it is clear that no employee will even just hurt a toe.
Generally speaking, no member of any boards will ever loose their sleep over anything other then their income, their shares, theirs standing and in the words of Colin Powell, if i can't sleep i take Ambien – everyone takes Ambien.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/11/10/a-memorial-to-politics/fda8ae40-2d82-4580-af3f-32714c6f5261/
Fact is that search and rescue is dangerous under many situations, but the people working search and rescue generally don't mind the risk. IF they wanted a risk free job they could have become an accountant or join politics, where no one ever is accuses of taking risks, or saving lives.
Yes Ad I know what a PCBU is – I am one myself.
You miss the whole point, and download the expected hand-wringing Wellington bureaucrat response – I was expecting it. Well done. And that's it – you are one of those people ok with watching people get squashed, burned, or bleed to death. Poorly you.
The laws need changing. Changing so that people can go in and rescue if they wish and at their own risk. The employers and PCBU's need to fuck off in such situations – they are clearly totally incompetent in these situations, as is now amply proved – pike river, chch eq, mosque attack, whakaari – how much mroe evidence do we need that the current settings are deadly?
Deadly Ad
And then you get 'shit happens' like this.
Sure, sometimes rescuers get lost themselves. That is part of it. My point still stands though – employers and PCBU's are not appropriate to be leading these situations. Neither are Police (earthquake, Pike River, mosque).
I think this whole area needs close examination and a re-working so that people can attempt rescues in situations which are considerably more risky than a "normal place of work", which these are most definitely not.
There is a massive hole at the moment, and people have died in New Zealand as a result – in the earthquake, at Pike River, at Whakaari and at the Mosques.
As I said above – how much more evidence do we need that the current settings are failing people's lives??
Mostly I agree with you, just forever pushing the legislative environment toward avoiding risk is a bad long term strategy. Sometimes risk is necessary, even when it entails a high price on the day.
But I suspect legislation is going to struggle if it attempts a legalistic prescription of 'where, when and how' rescue services should be allowed to act on a case by case basis. The risks are simply too specific and unique to every case.
On the other hand there is I think room for PCBU's to have access to a defense of 'considered and good faith effort' in conducting rescue operations in the event it all turns to custard.
It's also a societal values thing. I tend to your view, and I'm not sure what the answer is, other than to raise the issues and talk them through without that conversation being blocked.
Am curious how other countries manage the balance, and if part of the issue in NZ is that we just don't have that many emergencies. Would be interesting to compare situations like Whakaari and the Chch mosques, with situations where we do have a lot of experience eg land and sea search and rescue.
People on the ground will tell you that there are organisational problems (as in disorganisation), not simply H/S ones.
Which just indicates that the present systems are not fit for purpose. vto points are spot on.
I think that's going a bit far. The systems do what they are designed to do: rescue people without putting workers and public at undue risk. Vto's points are valid, but I think it's more about where the balance should be. Also if the balance is shifted to saving more lives, how will workers be protected in that situation who don't want to risk their own lives further? It's one thing for people to voluntarily go into such a situation, it's another where livelihood, peer pressure, responsibility to colleagues etc is a factor.
It's one thing for people to voluntarily go into such a situation, it's another where livelihood, peer pressure, responsibility to colleagues etc is a factor.
People can be given options to refuse. There just has to be a will to make different policy. NZs are often doing risky things; some people will come forward who can handle the difficulties, are trustworthy, and want to give it a try. We aren't soft people or made up entirely of those who will stand around and emote when they could usefully do something.
you might be underestimating the pressure on people from macho culture. eg two people in a chopper, emergency happens, pilot wants to go, passenger doesn't. Pilot is passenger's boss. Not hard to see the unspoken pressures there.
You didn't mention Pike River. The accredited mine rescue crew were in all their gear ready to go in when they were stopped. Might have been a different outcome.
Of course, Pike River, that very lamentable ode to everything governmental-regulation – neoliberal and hand-wringing
It is one thing being at the incident scene when it happens and another entering the incident scene. Entering the incident scene there is a chain of command. The chain of command can be tightened up to not delay a rescue. Resources and personal need to be deployed and NZ has limitations with this.
I watched most of Whakaari on TV 1 last night and the doctor and a senior paramedic arrived on Whakaari without gas masks for their own use. Without the gas masks they may of needed rescuing themselves. It was one of the private helicopter piolits who was first at the incident scene who provided the gas masks as he was at the right place at the right time.
Spelling errors personnel and pilots
I actually like 'piolits' more..
How refreshing. I have had my spelling corrected more than once by standardists.
As for grammar and punctuation go for it if it is found to be necessary for the person to correct me.
There are basically 4 main events in recent history where that has happened:
Only one of those involved the experts being overruled by a scene supervisor who was much less qualified than the people wanting to go in – Pike river. The mines rescue personnel knew there was a window to go in before gas could mix to form another explosion.
The other three involved unknown risks that could not be reasonably assessed based on the information at the time: would there be a bigger eruption, a bigger earthquake, another gunman/ied.
An old but relevant saying is "fools rush in where angels fear to tread".
Is it the SAS "Who dares wins?"
Yeah but they're not stupid about it. And (this being the important bit) they're trained to assess and mitigate specific risks. Like the Mines Rescue folk.
Similarly, we have trained life guards who can rescue swimmers safely, rather than the occasional person who drowns while trying to save someone else.
Twenty or thirty years ago, the first rule taught in first aid if you came across a scene was to assess your own safety first. If you get into trouble, now you have to be rescued (or recovered), too. And then when one person runs in without thinking, other people run in, and it's all uncoordinated and shit can go badly wrong there, too.
Folk wanting to fly helicopters into a volcano were the same folk who were doing helicopter tours of the vocano before it went boom. They could not assess the risk accurately. Jim wants to run into a charnel house before it's confirmed that there are no more active shooters? Is Jim trained to deal with that situation if another arsehole is there, or will he just be another victim to triage? People wanting to clamber over unstable rubble to rescue others – could they do it without further endangering themselves or survivors in the rubble, or did they have little idea about how to go about it?
Pike River seems to be an issue of a risk-averse scene commander not appreciating the expertise of the people who wanted to go in. Not the best call, but better than letting have-a-go heroes run in and get their arses blown up.
A blanket no seems to be the approach. Keep those people to the side and get them to sort out who has knowledge and who has gear and so on. Then have a combined discussion about what the situation is and everyone shut up and listen and look at a plan/whiteboard with basic info and map, and strike a plan then. No rushing in, no ignoring suitable helpers.
That last sentence is just an assumption on your part. People who would risk their loves to go in could have some mechanical support, but sign a waiver. If they did get their arses blown off the families would know they did everything they could and that it was always possible that the risk had not been assessed right. I wouldn't do it of course as I would not have the knowledge or the fitness, but police and authorities could work with willing people and utilise them where possible.
Willing doesn't count for a damned thing.
What does the waiver say – "if I'm stranded, don't come save me"? What does the waiver say if someone rushing in actually does something to make the problem worse because they had no idea what they were doing? Not just endangering the people they were trying to save, but say destabilising the structure even further, or blocking the remaining landing site with their own helicopter wreck?
And it sucks, but letting people go in and die after their loved ones is just worse for the remaining loved ones.
I prefer society to err on the side of safety, myself.
feeling slightly philosophical this morning and thinking about NZers and the remarkable resilience of deep cultural trends that hibernate deep in the warp and weft of the national sub conscious.
There is a famous apocryphal story from WW2 where Bernard Montgomery was visiting 2nd NZ Division with Bernard Freyberg and complained that NZ soldiers didn't salute as they drove past "Ah," said Freyberg, "But if you wave, they'll wave back." In other words, we are basically of an empirically sunny disposition and quite friendly if you are nice.
Compared to English or US nationalism NZers are not demonstratively nationalistic. Most of us don't know the Maori version of the national anthem, which sounds bad until you consider nobody knows the English version either.
But when we were asked nicely, we put our countries needs ahead of our own immediate convenience in a way that the frankly degenerate behaviour of the nationalists in the UK and USA did not. We should all be a little bit proud of ourselves as 2020 draws to an end.
Like many good things, loyalty to one's country is a good thing within the bounds of a sane moderation.
I think loyalty to one's class is more important. Class conflict politically is much less boring than the grey present. If only our working class would unite and support a political party worth opposing !!!!! By the way, do we still have a working class ?
A good question? Here is one for you … do we really want a 'working class'?
Who's "we"?
What is 'working class'?
And if we reduced inequality to a some arbitrarily tolerable level, would it still exist?
I don't know the answer to your first question, so can't answer your second.
And so I'll ask again – who's "we"? If you don't know either then that's fine.
This trouble you are having with this word 'we', does seem a tad selective. A quick scan shows other instances of people using it in this very thread without provoking this level of concern. For example right above Sanctuary says:
But when we were asked nicely
Did you have the same trouble here? Or is it just when I use the word?
I was curious to know who "we" represented in your question:
You seem fond of 'answering' a (simple?) question with more questions, but no worries – your responses have satisfied my curiosity.
RL does seem to express a lot of loyalty to their class.
Someone on twitter was talking about the "patriots" meeting that got cancelled by the venue this week – calling themselves "patriots" shows their ideological roots as being a bit more American than NZ. Irony.
I have been contrasting what little I know about employment law and what I know about a mental injury that ACC covers.
A person is harassed at work and they win their case and recieve a payment for psychological distress. A person does not have a physical injury and they were caught up in a terrorist attack and have psychological distress they get nothing other than offered counselling through the mental health system if it is rolled out in your area.
There is something very amiss when it comes to the 1961 Crimes Act being used by ACC to determine cover for a non physical mental injury. Crimes of organisational failure are not included, neither is a terrorist attack or an SIS cover up.
I would argue that the brain is as physical as the rest of the body and should not be excluded from cover.
Niether is chemical poisoning if there is no phyiscal injury obvious.
I had a relative who took ACC to court over a chemical poisoning case. Causation had to be proved. What chemical test ACC accepted for causation was not stated by ACC.
It would be 30 years ago, firefighters and Dr Matt Tizard and Eva.
Yet people are covered for asbestos 30 years after exposure.
Cleangreen had a lot to say about his ill health relating to chemical poisoning. Havenn't heard from him lately. He may have given himself a break after putting so much thought and time into the two things – chemicals and freight trains where needed.
I will look up his comments.
Mr Tizard.
Why cannot Dr be used?
Found guilty of professional misconduct. Struck off.
I knew that and the misconduct by the Medical Council for not treating people who were poisoned they got off.
I think it was for Tizard's naturopathic treatment. Vitamin C infusions.
Not quite.
"Tizard the medical practitioner was found guilty of disgraceful conduct in respect of his diagnosis or management of seven patients"
Strikes me as though you could have been involved in some way with Tizard.
Yes, and all of these clear anomalies were never intended and would never have arisen if the nats hadn't won the election in 1975. Successive Labour governments have at no time made any effort whatsoever to fix this monumental fuck-up. This government will be no different.
Yes a monumental f up re ACC. It really went pear shaped in 1992 under National. Labour did a bit of a fix up in 2001. Major reform required in 2021 for mental injury without a physical cause.
Cooper Law has 1100 settlements and 1400 pending.
How many people eligible for ACC, a mental injury have not applied?
The ineligible cases who would have been eligible under the 1982 ACC Act is disturbing.
The point that needs to pushed is that the ACC scheme was never meant to restrict itself to injury caused by accident, but was also to include sickness and disability. The first set of recommendations from the Woodhouse Report were introduced by way of the 1972 Act, and provisions dealing with sickness and disability were meant to follow soon after. Labour lost the 1975 election so the latter didn't happen. Now we're stuck with the ridiculous situation where ACC is turning down thousands of claims a year saying the injury wasn't caused by an accident. If the recommendations of the Woodhouse Report had been implemented, as the government back then said they would be, we wouldn't be in this mess.
This is the pivotal issue that represents all that is wrong with the ACC scheme as it currently stands. When this was put to him as minister Lees-Galloway refused to acknowledge there was a problem. If his gutlessness is any indication of the current government's position then they too won't have the balls to do anything about it. It's the elephant in the room when problems with the fuck-up that is ACC are raised.
Susan St John and others have written a lot about this. Here's a brief article of hers on the topic but there's a lot more detailed historical analysis around. It’s the history of the scheme that’s likely to be most powerful in terms of the change needed.
http://www.nzlii.org/nz/journals/VUWLawRw/2004/33.html
If health and safety ever took a trip on a deep sea fishing boat their brains would explode. Yet most of us survive uninjured.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/432540/kiwisavers-unsettled-by-covid-switch-funds-some-miss-out-on-rebound
I'm a little unsettled myself reading this contradictory item from some two-faced money manager.
The pandemic has exposed the perils of playing the stock market, leaving some KiwiSavers the poorer.
ASB's latest report on its KiwiSaver funds indicates sharemarket volatility has got the better of some of its customers this year, with 6 percent switching to lower risk cash and conservative funds in March as Covid-19 saw sharemarkets plunge.
Senior bank economist Chris Tennent-Brown said many of those investors missed out on the rapid recovery that occurred from April onwards.
The background to the KiwiSaver investments is to ensure safety, invest wisely, and with an eye to the long term. As I understand it, and how I think it should be. Economists who think like my favourite cartoon investment advisor Alex who always knows the angles to better himself, can just stay schtum. KiwiSaver should stick to its knitting.
https://alexcartoon.s3.amazonaws.com/6522a_16032015.gif
If KiwiSaver investment firms changed their holdings as a result of Covid expectations, that is not 'playing the stock market' to get the best immediate return. That quoted sentence is totally at odds with the type of fund that Kiwi Saver is. And that commenter should just stick to 'The wise old owl' rhyme which finishes with saying that the less he spoke the more he heard.’ Good advice.
Here is an example of why the canard that National voters tactically voted for Labour to be rid of Green influence needs to be destroyed.
This is a quote from outgoing energy spokesman for National, Jonathan Young, in an interview in late October in Energy News.
"With Labour likely to maintain some form of relationship with the Green Party, Young is worried what this might mean.
But he also has hope that Labour will recognise that landslide was partly driven by strategic voters from other parties who were worried about the influence of the Greens in government – and this might make the incoming government less aligned to the Greens and more pragmatic in its approach."
This canard should be disposed of by the very recent poll, but the Young quotation shows the importance that belief in the tactical tory vote has for them- instead of accepting that the National vote went way down, and part of the reason might be that National's energy policy was not acceptable along with many other tired and outdated beliefs.
absolutely…. destroy this truth before it takes hold!
Xanthe, I'm afraid I'd need to hear you say what you wrote to distinguish whether there is cynicism, sarcasm, irony or 'trutherism' there.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/432545/teens-campaign-for-i-can-t-wait-toilet-stickers
This is a good idea. Those of us who tend towards incontinency will have some idea of the difficulties.
Is this George W. Bush on Trump? Hallelujah!
Why is everybody sucking up to Peter Jackson? What is he offering long term for NZ? He’s a user and we are so gullible.
Is it because people who need him think he will make money for them.
Sounds like all Burton's hopes are in ashes! I don't believe this statement.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/432576/freshwater-reforms-may-stifle-farm-profitability-by-83-percent-per-year-report
The changes are aimed at improving the quality of waterways and include new rules for winter grazing, nitrogen pollution and farm intensification.
The desktop report, requested by the council, notes dairy farming takes place on nearly a third of the district's agricultural land and would be the hardest hit financially.
"The regulations will challenge existing farming systems with a number of established farm practices needing to change, and new technology and innovation adoption will be required."
It conservatively estimated that farm profitability would collectively decline more than $57 million, while farm expenditure would fall by about $140 million.
Ashburton District Mayor Neil Brown said that to drop nitrate levels in lowland streams in the required timeframe, farmers would have to have fewer animals.
"They will have to reduce their stocking rates on their farms to meet the requirements and that will lower the net profitability of the farm."
Sounds a bit hyped up to me. The problem is nitrogen in the waterways. How would one reduce this?
Reduce cows.
Reduce nitrogenous fertilisers.
Increase soil water infiltration.
Riparian planting.
Myco-remediation.
One mad idea I had was to 'toilet train' cows. There is a phenomenon that cows will piss and shit more when their feet are in water. So obviously, we'd prefer they're not in the streams. Anyway…
They congregate at the shed so the trick might be to design the shed in such a manner they stand in water. Maybe standing in the yard pre-milking, but they're packed in so it'd get messy with cows defecating on each other. As they're actually milking would also work, but then it's the farmer copping more shit.
But if you can direct more of the shit and piss to one place you can manage it better to reduce pollution (solid screening – > composting (solids) and biodigestion – > feed production via azolla – > wetlands).
Then the piss and shit delivers: biogas, compost, feed, water storage, aquaculture, biodiversity and drought resistance.
That's good thinking, WTB.
Dunno about that. Isn't that a solution to overstocking and wouldn't it be better to just stop overstocking?
Got it in one!
and another
do not dairy on land inherently unsuitable for dairying
That seems a bit paranoid. In that manner one could also claim riparian planting is a solution to overstocking. Or anything that brings down levels of N in our waterways.
The problem is shit in the rivers and Farmer's justifiable fear of losing income. I clearly outlined how to reduce pollution using tried and true appropriate tech including: composting, biodigestion, aquaculture to polish water, and wetlands for detoxification processes. This all works with/without cows in standing water. It also provides opportunity and useful products.
To maintain profits with lower numbers of beasts production per beast needs to be higher, or overheads lower, or alternate income/inputs realised. Bottom line is to show farmers a respectable/comparable bottom line without having to jack up number of beasts or inputs.
It surprises me you'd see a composting system as a problem. Am I simply wasting my time.
Also I think farmers have found that they can run less cows and make more money. Sounds magical to me, but a combination of factors seem to keep up the profitability overall I think.
Regenag people say they can make more money from less stock because their inputs costs are way less than conventional farming. Hope that is true.
We need to be encouraging regenag to see. Even if just one paddock on every farm, farm working groups to support etc, linking it into the cycles used for the rest of the farm.
$$$$$ chasing can be the cause of higher than needed inputs of fertiliser, over use of antibiotics etc.
'sitting in the (afternoon) sun..
watching the waves rolling in..'
not a bad idea.
..that's my reality for the next little while..
..life's like that when you have a tiny home on wheels..
..you get to experience all that's on offer…
..life as a modern-day nomad..
..it has much to offer..
..some say it all went pear-shaped when we stopped being nomads..
..and started putting up fences and claiming ownership..
Didn't know you were doing that, nice one.
I've been reading about the gypsy people. They were tight-knit and had a good life with good values. I think it would be well worth people finding a set of values and sticking by the best of them, instead of just doing whatever is done on tv. They designed their own vardos (vans) and their own designs and were happy.
Good book by Eva Petulengro – The Girl in the Painted Caravan
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9745656-the-girl-in-the-painted-caravan Eva Petulengro was born to a romany mother, and a gorger father. She spent her childhood living in her granmother's old vardo travelling as often as her mom ..
Born into a Romany Gypsy Family in 1939, Eva Petulengro's childhood seemed to her to be idyllic in every way. She would travel the country with her family in their painted caravan and spend evenings by the fire as they sang and told stories of their past. She didn't go to school or visit a doctor when she was unwell. Instead her family would gather wild herbs to make traditional remedies, hunt game and rabbits for food, and while the men tended horses to make a living, the young girls would join the women in reading palms. But in the post-war era, Eva's perfect world would be turned upside down…
Gingko great tree – seeds can be eaten when poisonous outer is off. Tough. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2020/11/ginkgo-trees-nearly-went-extinct-how-we-saved-these-living-fossils/
Cappadocia Turkey – underground caverns carved thousands of years ago.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/03/150325-underground-city-cappadocia-turkey-archaeology/
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKN5muVr5zA
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9UyoIPYByM