I complained bitterly at the time about the fact that "health & safety" stopped people being rescued from the rubble after the Chch earthquake. People died because of it. Nobody was found alive after about 24 hours – compare that to so very many other earthquakes around the world where people are found days later… The hand-wringing crowd caused extra deaths.
It is a disgrace and the government needs to get on top of this issue – it is causing unnecessary deaths. It will happen again – you watch. And if you find yourself in one of these situations, what are you going to do? Ignore the hand-wringers and save a life, at risk of later prosecution? Or comply with the stupid laws here and watch someone bleed to death (mosque), burn to death (whakaari), or be slowly squashed to death (Chch eq).
Every moral person wants to do magnanimous stuff. But if they are employed by someone, they and their magnanimity are constrained by the person who they work for. That's a PCBU.
A PCBU is a 'person conducting a business or undertaking'. The PCBU has the primary duty of care – the primary responsibility for people's health and safety at work.
So the morality of heroism is lovely. But the morality of sending an employee into harm's way is now backed up by strong law. Ask any manager or Board member whether they lose sleep before a risky operation.
Yeah, search and rescue should be cancelled until it is clear that no employee will even just hurt a toe.
Generally speaking, no member of any boards will ever loose their sleep over anything other then their income, their shares, theirs standing and in the words of Colin Powell, if i can't sleep i take Ambien – everyone takes Ambien.
Powell described his killer schedule in an interview Thursday with Abdul Rahman Al-Rashed, a reporter for a London-based Saudi newspaper.
"So do you use sleeping tablets to organize yourself?" Al-Rashed asked.
"Yes. Well, I wouldn't call them that," Powell said. "They're a wonderful medication — not medication. How would you call it? They're called Ambien, which is very good. You don't use Ambien? Everybody here uses Ambien."
Fact is that search and rescue is dangerous under many situations, but the people working search and rescue generally don't mind the risk. IF they wanted a risk free job they could have become an accountant or join politics, where no one ever is accuses of taking risks, or saving lives.
You miss the whole point, and download the expected hand-wringing Wellington bureaucrat response – I was expecting it. Well done. And that's it – you are one of those people ok with watching people get squashed, burned, or bleed to death. Poorly you.
The laws need changing. Changing so that people can go in and rescue if they wish and at their own risk. The employers and PCBU's need to fuck off in such situations – they are clearly totally incompetent in these situations, as is now amply proved – pike river, chch eq, mosque attack, whakaari – how much mroe evidence do we need that the current settings are deadly?
Sure, sometimes rescuers get lost themselves. That is part of it. My point still stands though – employers and PCBU's are not appropriate to be leading these situations. Neither are Police (earthquake, Pike River, mosque).
I think this whole area needs close examination and a re-working so that people can attempt rescues in situations which are considerably more risky than a "normal place of work", which these are most definitely not.
There is a massive hole at the moment, and people have died in New Zealand as a result – in the earthquake, at Pike River, at Whakaari and at the Mosques.
As I said above – how much more evidence do we need that the current settings are failing people's lives??
Mostly I agree with you, just forever pushing the legislative environment toward avoiding risk is a bad long term strategy. Sometimes risk is necessary, even when it entails a high price on the day.
But I suspect legislation is going to struggle if it attempts a legalistic prescription of 'where, when and how' rescue services should be allowed to act on a case by case basis. The risks are simply too specific and unique to every case.
On the other hand there is I think room for PCBU's to have access to a defense of 'considered and good faith effort' in conducting rescue operations in the event it all turns to custard.
It's also a societal values thing. I tend to your view, and I'm not sure what the answer is, other than to raise the issues and talk them through without that conversation being blocked.
Am curious how other countries manage the balance, and if part of the issue in NZ is that we just don't have that many emergencies. Would be interesting to compare situations like Whakaari and the Chch mosques, with situations where we do have a lot of experience eg land and sea search and rescue.
I think that's going a bit far. The systems do what they are designed to do: rescue people without putting workers and public at undue risk. Vto's points are valid, but I think it's more about where the balance should be. Also if the balance is shifted to saving more lives, how will workers be protected in that situation who don't want to risk their own lives further? It's one thing for people to voluntarily go into such a situation, it's another where livelihood, peer pressure, responsibility to colleagues etc is a factor.
It's one thing for people to voluntarily go into such a situation, it's another where livelihood, peer pressure, responsibility to colleagues etc is a factor.
People can be given options to refuse. There just has to be a will to make different policy. NZs are often doing risky things; some people will come forward who can handle the difficulties, are trustworthy, and want to give it a try. We aren't soft people or made up entirely of those who will stand around and emote when they could usefully do something.
you might be underestimating the pressure on people from macho culture. eg two people in a chopper, emergency happens, pilot wants to go, passenger doesn't. Pilot is passenger's boss. Not hard to see the unspoken pressures there.
You didn't mention Pike River. The accredited mine rescue crew were in all their gear ready to go in when they were stopped. Might have been a different outcome.
It is one thing being at the incident scene when it happens and another entering the incident scene. Entering the incident scene there is a chain of command. The chain of command can be tightened up to not delay a rescue. Resources and personal need to be deployed and NZ has limitations with this.
I watched most of Whakaari on TV 1 last night and the doctor and a senior paramedic arrived on Whakaari without gas masks for their own use. Without the gas masks they may of needed rescuing themselves. It was one of the private helicopter piolits who was first at the incident scene who provided the gas masks as he was at the right place at the right time.
There are basically 4 main events in recent history where that has happened:
Pike river
ChCh earthquake
Gunman
Whakaari
Only one of those involved the experts being overruled by a scene supervisor who was much less qualified than the people wanting to go in – Pike river. The mines rescue personnel knew there was a window to go in before gas could mix to form another explosion.
The other three involved unknown risks that could not be reasonably assessed based on the information at the time: would there be a bigger eruption, a bigger earthquake, another gunman/ied.
An old but relevant saying is "fools rush in where angels fear to tread".
Yeah but they're not stupid about it. And (this being the important bit) they're trained to assess and mitigate specific risks. Like the Mines Rescue folk.
Similarly, we have trained life guards who can rescue swimmers safely, rather than the occasional person who drowns while trying to save someone else.
Twenty or thirty years ago, the first rule taught in first aid if you came across a scene was to assess your own safety first. If you get into trouble, now you have to be rescued (or recovered), too. And then when one person runs in without thinking, other people run in, and it's all uncoordinated and shit can go badly wrong there, too.
Folk wanting to fly helicopters into a volcano were the same folk who were doing helicopter tours of the vocano before it went boom. They could not assess the risk accurately. Jim wants to run into a charnel house before it's confirmed that there are no more active shooters? Is Jim trained to deal with that situation if another arsehole is there, or will he just be another victim to triage? People wanting to clamber over unstable rubble to rescue others – could they do it without further endangering themselves or survivors in the rubble, or did they have little idea about how to go about it?
Pike River seems to be an issue of a risk-averse scene commander not appreciating the expertise of the people who wanted to go in. Not the best call, but better than letting have-a-go heroes run in and get their arses blown up.
A blanket no seems to be the approach. Keep those people to the side and get them to sort out who has knowledge and who has gear and so on. Then have a combined discussion about what the situation is and everyone shut up and listen and look at a plan/whiteboard with basic info and map, and strike a plan then. No rushing in, no ignoring suitable helpers.
That last sentence is just an assumption on your part. People who would risk their loves to go in could have some mechanical support, but sign a waiver. If they did get their arses blown off the families would know they did everything they could and that it was always possible that the risk had not been assessed right. I wouldn't do it of course as I would not have the knowledge or the fitness, but police and authorities could work with willing people and utilise them where possible.
What does the waiver say – "if I'm stranded, don't come save me"? What does the waiver say if someone rushing in actually does something to make the problem worse because they had no idea what they were doing? Not just endangering the people they were trying to save, but say destabilising the structure even further, or blocking the remaining landing site with their own helicopter wreck?
And it sucks, but letting people go in and die after their loved ones is just worse for the remaining loved ones.
I prefer society to err on the side of safety, myself.
feeling slightly philosophical this morning and thinking about NZers and the remarkable resilience of deep cultural trends that hibernate deep in the warp and weft of the national sub conscious.
There is a famous apocryphal story from WW2 where Bernard Montgomery was visiting 2nd NZ Division with Bernard Freyberg and complained that NZ soldiers didn't salute as they drove past "Ah," said Freyberg, "But if you wave, they'll wave back." In other words, we are basically of an empirically sunny disposition and quite friendly if you are nice.
Compared to English or US nationalism NZers are not demonstratively nationalistic. Most of us don't know the Maori version of the national anthem, which sounds bad until you consider nobody knows the English version either.
But when we were asked nicely, we put our countries needs ahead of our own immediate convenience in a way that the frankly degenerate behaviour of the nationalists in the UK and USA did not. We should all be a little bit proud of ourselves as 2020 draws to an end.
I think loyalty to one's class is more important. Class conflict politically is much less boring than the grey present. If only our working class would unite and support a political party worth opposing !!!!! By the way, do we still have a working class ?
This trouble you are having with this word 'we', does seem a tad selective. A quick scan shows other instances of people using it in this very thread without provoking this level of concern. For example right above Sanctuary says:
But when we were asked nicely
Did you have the same trouble here? Or is it just when I use the word?
Someone on twitter was talking about the "patriots" meeting that got cancelled by the venue this week – calling themselves "patriots" shows their ideological roots as being a bit more American than NZ. Irony.
I have been contrasting what little I know about employment law and what I know about a mental injury that ACC covers.
A person is harassed at work and they win their case and recieve a payment for psychological distress. A person does not have a physical injury and they were caught up in a terrorist attack and have psychological distress they get nothing other than offered counselling through the mental health system if it is rolled out in your area.
There is something very amiss when it comes to the 1961 Crimes Act being used by ACC to determine cover for a non physical mental injury. Crimes of organisational failure are not included, neither is a terrorist attack or an SIS cover up.
I would argue that the brain is as physical as the rest of the body and should not be excluded from cover.
I had a relative who took ACC to court over a chemical poisoning case. Causation had to be proved. What chemical test ACC accepted for causation was not stated by ACC.
It would be 30 years ago, firefighters and Dr Matt Tizard and Eva.
Yet people are covered for asbestos 30 years after exposure.
Cleangreen had a lot to say about his ill health relating to chemical poisoning. Havenn't heard from him lately. He may have given himself a break after putting so much thought and time into the two things – chemicals and freight trains where needed.
Yes, and all of these clear anomalies were never intended and would never have arisen if the nats hadn't won the election in 1975. Successive Labour governments have at no time made any effort whatsoever to fix this monumental fuck-up. This government will be no different.
Yes a monumental f up re ACC. It really went pear shaped in 1992 under National. Labour did a bit of a fix up in 2001. Major reform required in 2021 for mental injury without a physical cause.
Cooper Law has 1100 settlements and 1400 pending.
How many people eligible for ACC, a mental injury have not applied?
The ineligible cases who would have been eligible under the 1982 ACC Act is disturbing.
The point that needs to pushed is that the ACC scheme was never meant to restrict itself to injury caused by accident, but was also to include sickness and disability. The first set of recommendations from the Woodhouse Report were introduced by way of the 1972 Act, and provisions dealing with sickness and disability were meant to follow soon after. Labour lost the 1975 election so the latter didn't happen. Now we're stuck with the ridiculous situation where ACC is turning down thousands of claims a year saying the injury wasn't caused by an accident. If the recommendations of the Woodhouse Report had been implemented, as the government back then said they would be, we wouldn't be in this mess.
This is the pivotal issue that represents all that is wrong with the ACC scheme as it currently stands. When this was put to him as minister Lees-Galloway refused to acknowledge there was a problem. If his gutlessness is any indication of the current government's position then they too won't have the balls to do anything about it. It's the elephant in the room when problems with the fuck-up that is ACC are raised.
Susan St John and others have written a lot about this. Here's a brief article of hers on the topic but there's a lot more detailed historical analysis around. It’s the history of the scheme that’s likely to be most powerful in terms of the change needed.
I'm a little unsettled myself reading this contradictory item from some two-faced money manager.
The pandemic has exposed the perils of playing the stock market, leaving some KiwiSavers the poorer. ASB's latest report on its KiwiSaver funds indicates sharemarket volatility has got the better of some of its customers this year, with 6 percent switching to lower risk cash and conservative funds in March as Covid-19 saw sharemarkets plunge.
Senior bank economist Chris Tennent-Brown said many of those investors missed out on the rapid recovery that occurred from April onwards.
The background to the KiwiSaver investments is to ensure safety, invest wisely, and with an eye to the long term. As I understand it, and how I think it should be. Economists who think like my favourite cartoon investment advisor Alex who always knows the angles to better himself, can just stay schtum. KiwiSaver should stick to its knitting.
If KiwiSaver investment firms changed their holdings as a result of Covid expectations, that is not 'playing the stock market' to get the best immediate return. That quoted sentence is totally at odds with the type of fund that Kiwi Saver is. And that commenter should just stick to 'The wise old owl' rhyme which finishes with saying that the less he spoke the more he heard.’ Good advice.
Here is an example of why the canard that National voters tactically voted for Labour to be rid of Green influence needs to be destroyed.
This is a quote from outgoing energy spokesman for National, Jonathan Young, in an interview in late October in Energy News.
"With Labour likely to maintain some form of relationship with the Green Party, Young is worried what this might mean.
But he also has hope that Labour will recognise that landslide was partly driven by strategic voters from other parties who were worried about the influence of the Greens in government – and this might make the incoming government less aligned to the Greens and more pragmatic in its approach."
This canard should be disposed of by the very recent poll, but the Young quotation shows the importance that belief in the tactical tory vote has for them- instead of accepting that the National vote went way down, and part of the reason might be that National's energy policy was not acceptable along with many other tired and outdated beliefs.
The campaign is pushing for Pharmac to bring the drug Stelara into the country. That drug could potentially stop people from having to go through invasive surgery.
“If we could prevent that, that would be amazing.”
This is a good idea. Those of us who tend towards incontinency will have some idea of the difficulties.
The desktop report, requested by the council, notes dairy farming takes place on nearly a third of the district's agricultural land and would be the hardest hit financially.
"The regulations will challenge existing farming systems with a number of established farm practices needing to change, and new technology and innovation adoption will be required." It conservatively estimated that farm profitability would collectively decline more than $57 million, while farm expenditure would fall by about $140 million.
Ashburton District Mayor Neil Brown said that to drop nitrate levels in lowland streams in the required timeframe, farmers would have to have fewer animals. "They will have to reduce their stocking rates on their farms to meet the requirements and that will lower the net profitability of the farm."
One mad idea I had was to 'toilet train' cows. There is a phenomenon that cows will piss and shit more when their feet are in water. So obviously, we'd prefer they're not in the streams. Anyway…
They congregate at the shed so the trick might be to design the shed in such a manner they stand in water. Maybe standing in the yard pre-milking, but they're packed in so it'd get messy with cows defecating on each other. As they're actually milking would also work, but then it's the farmer copping more shit.
But if you can direct more of the shit and piss to one place you can manage it better to reduce pollution (solid screening – > composting (solids) and biodigestion – > feed production via azolla – > wetlands).
Then the piss and shit delivers: biogas, compost, feed, water storage, aquaculture, biodiversity and drought resistance.
That seems a bit paranoid. In that manner one could also claim riparian planting is a solution to overstocking. Or anything that brings down levels of N in our waterways.
The problem is shit in the rivers and Farmer's justifiable fear of losing income. I clearly outlined how to reduce pollution using tried and true appropriate tech including: composting, biodigestion, aquaculture to polish water, and wetlands for detoxification processes. This all works with/without cows in standing water. It also provides opportunity and useful products.
To maintain profits with lower numbers of beasts production per beast needs to be higher, or overheads lower, or alternate income/inputs realised. Bottom line is to show farmers a respectable/comparable bottom line without having to jack up number of beasts or inputs.
It surprises me you'd see a composting system as a problem. Am I simply wasting my time.
Also I think farmers have found that they can run less cows and make more money. Sounds magical to me, but a combination of factors seem to keep up the profitability overall I think.
We need to be encouraging regenag to see. Even if just one paddock on every farm, farm working groups to support etc, linking it into the cycles used for the rest of the farm.
$$$$$ chasing can be the cause of higher than needed inputs of fertiliser, over use of antibiotics etc.
I've been reading about the gypsy people. They were tight-knit and had a good life with good values. I think it would be well worth people finding a set of values and sticking by the best of them, instead of just doing whatever is done on tv. They designed their own vardos (vans) and their own designs and were happy.
Good book by Eva Petulengro – The Girl in the Painted Caravan
Born into a Romany Gypsy Family in 1939, Eva Petulengro's childhood seemed to her to be idyllic in every way. She would travel the country with her family in their painted caravan and spend evenings by the fire as they sang and told stories of their past. She didn't go to school or visit a doctor when she was unwell. Instead her family would gather wild herbs to make traditional remedies, hunt game and rabbits for food, and while the men tended horses to make a living, the young girls would join the women in reading palms. But in the post-war era, Eva's perfect world would be turned upside down…
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Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Even if some students are now just texting on their laptops. Stewart Sowman-Lund writes in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
Councils from Horowhenua, Kāpiti, Wairarapa, the Hutt Valley, Porirua and Wellington City will meet this Friday to work together on a plan for a Greater Wellington region water deal. ...
Renowned musician, advocate, and proud born and raised daughter of Tauranga, Ria Hall, is announcing her candidacy for Mayor of Tauranga and Pāpāmoa Ward for the upcoming election on July 20th. ...
The new Aotearoa histories curriculum is rich with potential. There’s still work to be done, but the education minister’s criticisms about ‘balance’ miss the mark, argues primary school teacher Jessie Moss. In 2015, Ōtorohanga College students presented to parliament a petition signed by more than 10,000 people calling for a ...
For too long our so-called national bird has maintained its stranglehold on the economy of regional New Zealand. Thanks to the fast track legislation, we will have our revenge. Theories abound on what ails New Zealand’s economy. National leader Chris Luxon has posited that we’re negative, wet, whiny, and inward-looking; ...
Comment: The debate over the future relationship between news and social media is bringing us closer to a long-overdue reckoning. Social media isn’t trying to kill journalism, because social media has never really cared about journalism. Social media is resolutely in the attention business. News propels some attention — perhaps ...
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For the past 12 years, Georgia-Rose Brown has balanced on the brink of making an Olympic Games – but always landed gracefully on the wrong side. Reaching the Olympics is a dream the gymnast has harboured since she was a six-year-old; a dream that would dwindle every four years, yet ...
Late one afternoon in March 1860 a man in a thin green velveteen jacket and a wide-awake hat arrived on foot at a sheep station named Glenmark, about 65 kilometres north of Christchurch. The man was in his mid-fifties but he looked older. Several people who met him that day ...
If building one of Auckland’s possible waterfront stadiums was funded privately, it would need to hold a sold-out Ed Sherran concert every weekday for 25 years. That’s Rob Hamlin’s finding – he’s a senior marketing lecturer at the University of Otago. “It’s not going to happen; forget about it,” he ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra A new Commonwealth Prac Payment will provide students with $319.50 a week when they are on clinical and professional placements. The payment will be means tested and start from July 1 next year, which ...
Asia Pacific Report About 500 people honoured Palestinian journalists in the heart of the New Zealand city of Auckland today for their brave coverage of Israel’s War on Gaza, now in its seventh month with almost 35,000 people killed, mostly women and children. Marking the annual May 3 World Press ...
The Government Communications Security Bureau denies hosting a foreign spying capability flagged by the watchdog, differentiating it from the system recently criticised. ...
RNZ News A group of academic staff at New Zealand’s largest university have expressed concern at the administration’s move to block a protest encampment that was planned to take place on campus calling for support for the rights of Palestinians. This week, the University of Auckland warned that while it ...
Genterwocky After a hard days marching, Sir Doocey calls in at the Village Tavern For a pint of ale and a pork pie. The grim villagers stare at him. “Do not be travelling on the forest road,” warns a crusty old beak. “And why is that, antique peasant?” Grins Sir ...
Political conferences after a party returns to power are usually a chance for some healthy, even unhealthy backslapping. Yet National Party president Sylvia Wood’s address to its mainland representatives on Saturday hardly contained the unalloyed delight that one might have expected following National’s escape from the wilderness of opposition. Yes, ...
Comment: Almost half the world is voting in national elections this year and artificial intelligence is the elephant in the room. There are genuine fears AI-generated or AI-edited deepfakes will potentially manipulate election outcomes not just in the US and UK, but critically in countries such as India. For that ...
Ahead of the reality franchise’s return to New Zealand, allow us to introduce the eight brides and grooms. Chuck on a veil and tie back your man bun, because it’s time to say “I do” to a new season of Married at First Sight NZ. The reality TV “social experiment” ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Norton, Professor in the Practice of Higher Education Policy, Australian National University Every year on June 1, student debt in Australia is indexed to inflation. In 2023, high inflation pushed the indexation rate to 7.1%, the highest since 1990. This ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Changes in the May 14 budget will cut the student debt of more than three million people, wiping more than $3 billion from what people owe. The government will cap the HELP indexation rate ...
Asia Pacific Report The prosecutor’s office at the International Criminal Court (ICC) has appealed for an end to what it calls intimidation of its staff, saying such threats could constitute an offence against the “administration of justice” by the world’s permanent war crimes court. The Hague-based office of ICC Prosecutor ...
By Patrick Decloitre, RNZ Pacific correspondent French Pacific desk A women’s union in New Caledonia has staged a sit-in protest this week to support senior Kanak indigenous journalist Thérèse Waia, who works for public broadcaster Nouvelle-Calédonie la Première, after a smear attack by critics. The peaceful demonstration was held on ...
New Zealand Food Safety is monitoring overseas recalls of Indian packaged spice products manufactured by MDH and Everest due to concerns over a cancer-causing pesticide. ...
By Stephen Wright and Stefan Armbruster of BenarNews Fiji’s ranking in a global press freedom index has jumped into the top tier of countries with free or mostly free media after its government last year repealed a draconian law that threatened journalists with prison for doing their jobs. Fiji’s improvement ...
We might be in Invercargill but all anyone can talk about is Gore. Specifically, Salford Street. That’s where three-year-old Lachlan Jones lived, south of the centre of town, between the A&P Showgrounds and the Mataura River. Roughly 1.2 km away from the single level home he lived in with his ...
MONDAY I lined up the latest round of civil servants from city hall against the wall, and signalled for the firing squad to drop their rifles. I stepped up onto a wooden crate to look at the office workers in the eye. But that didn’t feel right, so I found ...
Keen hiker and second-year MSc student Liam Hewson wears two hats when he’s in the great outdoors. “The scientist in me appreciates nature and goes, ‘Oh, there’s that thing and there’s another thing,’ but then the tramper and the outdoorsy person in me thinks, ‘Cool bush.’” Born and bred in ...
After a long and illustrious career as a goal kicker, Dan Carter’s favourite way to unwind is… kicking goals. Why can’t he get enough of it? And what it’s like to watch him do it for an hour straight? A semicircle of people wielding cameras and phones has formed in ...
Dame Susan Devoy takes us through her life in television, including late night ER debriefs, her proudest CTI moment and the show she watches in secret. Quite aside from her four world champion squash titles, Dame Susan Devoy will likely go down in history as one of the best Celebrity ...
Hera Lindsay Bird reveals the best places in Ōtepoti to score more for your apocalypse-prep book hoard.Sometimes I get the feeling I’ve been killed in a car crash, and this second half of my life is just the brain unspooling itself, like one of those episodes of a hospital ...
ThreeNow’s new murder mystery series takes us on a dark, damp journey into the Australian wilderness.This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. High Country is ThreeNow’s new Australian eight-part crime drama, set in a remote part of the Victorian highlands. It tells ...
Introducing a new way to read The Spinoff every weekend. After nearly 10 years of being an online magazine, we’re finally embracing the weekend liftout. Despite our best efforts to convince you otherwise, writers and editors at The Spinoff don’t work weekend. It is through the sheer power of technology ...
Tip one: let yourself be nurtured by this big old man. Tip two: don’t ask him to adopt you. So, you’ve arrived at your first session with a new therapist. He tells you to make yourself comfortable and you opt for the tweed armchair, hoping it makes you look like ...
I didn’t know books could open you back up; that there were books that stayed with you, where reading was like a chemical event. I knew nothing.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.Not too long ago, I was listening to the American ...
Former Olympic swimmer James Magnussen has already started training for the Enhanced games, though says he won’t start taking performance enhancing substances until about nine months out from the competition. The Australian world champion was the first athlete to be announced by Enhanced, but he says the organisation has had ...
Everyone thinks he’s dead. Every day they expect his body to be washed up along the coast. Most likely up Karitane way, the way the tide’s running. But nobody’ll be too surprised if his body’s never found. Even in death he wouldn’t have wished for such attention. He would have ...
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I complained bitterly at the time about the fact that "health & safety" stopped people being rescued from the rubble after the Chch earthquake. People died because of it. Nobody was found alive after about 24 hours – compare that to so very many other earthquakes around the world where people are found days later… The hand-wringing crowd caused extra deaths.
It happened with Whakaari White Island too,
And now it is clear that is also happened during the Chrstchurch mosque attacks. Appalling. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/300179435/terror-attack-victims-bled-to-death-inside-police-cordon .
It is a disgrace and the government needs to get on top of this issue – it is causing unnecessary deaths. It will happen again – you watch. And if you find yourself in one of these situations, what are you going to do? Ignore the hand-wringers and save a life, at risk of later prosecution? Or comply with the stupid laws here and watch someone bleed to death (mosque), burn to death (whakaari), or be slowly squashed to death (Chch eq).
Every moral person wants to do magnanimous stuff. But if they are employed by someone, they and their magnanimity are constrained by the person who they work for. That's a PCBU.
A PCBU is a 'person conducting a business or undertaking'. The PCBU has the primary duty of care – the primary responsibility for people's health and safety at work.
So the morality of heroism is lovely. But the morality of sending an employee into harm's way is now backed up by strong law. Ask any manager or Board member whether they lose sleep before a risky operation.
Yeah, search and rescue should be cancelled until it is clear that no employee will even just hurt a toe.
Generally speaking, no member of any boards will ever loose their sleep over anything other then their income, their shares, theirs standing and in the words of Colin Powell, if i can't sleep i take Ambien – everyone takes Ambien.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/11/10/a-memorial-to-politics/fda8ae40-2d82-4580-af3f-32714c6f5261/
Fact is that search and rescue is dangerous under many situations, but the people working search and rescue generally don't mind the risk. IF they wanted a risk free job they could have become an accountant or join politics, where no one ever is accuses of taking risks, or saving lives.
Yes Ad I know what a PCBU is – I am one myself.
You miss the whole point, and download the expected hand-wringing Wellington bureaucrat response – I was expecting it. Well done. And that's it – you are one of those people ok with watching people get squashed, burned, or bleed to death. Poorly you.
The laws need changing. Changing so that people can go in and rescue if they wish and at their own risk. The employers and PCBU's need to fuck off in such situations – they are clearly totally incompetent in these situations, as is now amply proved – pike river, chch eq, mosque attack, whakaari – how much mroe evidence do we need that the current settings are deadly?
Deadly Ad
And then you get 'shit happens' like this.
Sure, sometimes rescuers get lost themselves. That is part of it. My point still stands though – employers and PCBU's are not appropriate to be leading these situations. Neither are Police (earthquake, Pike River, mosque).
I think this whole area needs close examination and a re-working so that people can attempt rescues in situations which are considerably more risky than a "normal place of work", which these are most definitely not.
There is a massive hole at the moment, and people have died in New Zealand as a result – in the earthquake, at Pike River, at Whakaari and at the Mosques.
As I said above – how much more evidence do we need that the current settings are failing people's lives??
Mostly I agree with you, just forever pushing the legislative environment toward avoiding risk is a bad long term strategy. Sometimes risk is necessary, even when it entails a high price on the day.
But I suspect legislation is going to struggle if it attempts a legalistic prescription of 'where, when and how' rescue services should be allowed to act on a case by case basis. The risks are simply too specific and unique to every case.
On the other hand there is I think room for PCBU's to have access to a defense of 'considered and good faith effort' in conducting rescue operations in the event it all turns to custard.
It's also a societal values thing. I tend to your view, and I'm not sure what the answer is, other than to raise the issues and talk them through without that conversation being blocked.
Am curious how other countries manage the balance, and if part of the issue in NZ is that we just don't have that many emergencies. Would be interesting to compare situations like Whakaari and the Chch mosques, with situations where we do have a lot of experience eg land and sea search and rescue.
People on the ground will tell you that there are organisational problems (as in disorganisation), not simply H/S ones.
Which just indicates that the present systems are not fit for purpose. vto points are spot on.
I think that's going a bit far. The systems do what they are designed to do: rescue people without putting workers and public at undue risk. Vto's points are valid, but I think it's more about where the balance should be. Also if the balance is shifted to saving more lives, how will workers be protected in that situation who don't want to risk their own lives further? It's one thing for people to voluntarily go into such a situation, it's another where livelihood, peer pressure, responsibility to colleagues etc is a factor.
It's one thing for people to voluntarily go into such a situation, it's another where livelihood, peer pressure, responsibility to colleagues etc is a factor.
People can be given options to refuse. There just has to be a will to make different policy. NZs are often doing risky things; some people will come forward who can handle the difficulties, are trustworthy, and want to give it a try. We aren't soft people or made up entirely of those who will stand around and emote when they could usefully do something.
you might be underestimating the pressure on people from macho culture. eg two people in a chopper, emergency happens, pilot wants to go, passenger doesn't. Pilot is passenger's boss. Not hard to see the unspoken pressures there.
You didn't mention Pike River. The accredited mine rescue crew were in all their gear ready to go in when they were stopped. Might have been a different outcome.
Of course, Pike River, that very lamentable ode to everything governmental-regulation – neoliberal and hand-wringing
It is one thing being at the incident scene when it happens and another entering the incident scene. Entering the incident scene there is a chain of command. The chain of command can be tightened up to not delay a rescue. Resources and personal need to be deployed and NZ has limitations with this.
I watched most of Whakaari on TV 1 last night and the doctor and a senior paramedic arrived on Whakaari without gas masks for their own use. Without the gas masks they may of needed rescuing themselves. It was one of the private helicopter piolits who was first at the incident scene who provided the gas masks as he was at the right place at the right time.
Spelling errors personnel and pilots
I actually like 'piolits' more..
How refreshing. I have had my spelling corrected more than once by standardists.
As for grammar and punctuation go for it if it is found to be necessary for the person to correct me.
There are basically 4 main events in recent history where that has happened:
Only one of those involved the experts being overruled by a scene supervisor who was much less qualified than the people wanting to go in – Pike river. The mines rescue personnel knew there was a window to go in before gas could mix to form another explosion.
The other three involved unknown risks that could not be reasonably assessed based on the information at the time: would there be a bigger eruption, a bigger earthquake, another gunman/ied.
An old but relevant saying is "fools rush in where angels fear to tread".
Is it the SAS "Who dares wins?"
Yeah but they're not stupid about it. And (this being the important bit) they're trained to assess and mitigate specific risks. Like the Mines Rescue folk.
Similarly, we have trained life guards who can rescue swimmers safely, rather than the occasional person who drowns while trying to save someone else.
Twenty or thirty years ago, the first rule taught in first aid if you came across a scene was to assess your own safety first. If you get into trouble, now you have to be rescued (or recovered), too. And then when one person runs in without thinking, other people run in, and it's all uncoordinated and shit can go badly wrong there, too.
Folk wanting to fly helicopters into a volcano were the same folk who were doing helicopter tours of the vocano before it went boom. They could not assess the risk accurately. Jim wants to run into a charnel house before it's confirmed that there are no more active shooters? Is Jim trained to deal with that situation if another arsehole is there, or will he just be another victim to triage? People wanting to clamber over unstable rubble to rescue others – could they do it without further endangering themselves or survivors in the rubble, or did they have little idea about how to go about it?
Pike River seems to be an issue of a risk-averse scene commander not appreciating the expertise of the people who wanted to go in. Not the best call, but better than letting have-a-go heroes run in and get their arses blown up.
A blanket no seems to be the approach. Keep those people to the side and get them to sort out who has knowledge and who has gear and so on. Then have a combined discussion about what the situation is and everyone shut up and listen and look at a plan/whiteboard with basic info and map, and strike a plan then. No rushing in, no ignoring suitable helpers.
That last sentence is just an assumption on your part. People who would risk their loves to go in could have some mechanical support, but sign a waiver. If they did get their arses blown off the families would know they did everything they could and that it was always possible that the risk had not been assessed right. I wouldn't do it of course as I would not have the knowledge or the fitness, but police and authorities could work with willing people and utilise them where possible.
Willing doesn't count for a damned thing.
What does the waiver say – "if I'm stranded, don't come save me"? What does the waiver say if someone rushing in actually does something to make the problem worse because they had no idea what they were doing? Not just endangering the people they were trying to save, but say destabilising the structure even further, or blocking the remaining landing site with their own helicopter wreck?
And it sucks, but letting people go in and die after their loved ones is just worse for the remaining loved ones.
I prefer society to err on the side of safety, myself.
feeling slightly philosophical this morning and thinking about NZers and the remarkable resilience of deep cultural trends that hibernate deep in the warp and weft of the national sub conscious.
There is a famous apocryphal story from WW2 where Bernard Montgomery was visiting 2nd NZ Division with Bernard Freyberg and complained that NZ soldiers didn't salute as they drove past "Ah," said Freyberg, "But if you wave, they'll wave back." In other words, we are basically of an empirically sunny disposition and quite friendly if you are nice.
Compared to English or US nationalism NZers are not demonstratively nationalistic. Most of us don't know the Maori version of the national anthem, which sounds bad until you consider nobody knows the English version either.
But when we were asked nicely, we put our countries needs ahead of our own immediate convenience in a way that the frankly degenerate behaviour of the nationalists in the UK and USA did not. We should all be a little bit proud of ourselves as 2020 draws to an end.
Like many good things, loyalty to one's country is a good thing within the bounds of a sane moderation.
I think loyalty to one's class is more important. Class conflict politically is much less boring than the grey present. If only our working class would unite and support a political party worth opposing !!!!! By the way, do we still have a working class ?
A good question? Here is one for you … do we really want a 'working class'?
Who's "we"?
What is 'working class'?
And if we reduced inequality to a some arbitrarily tolerable level, would it still exist?
I don't know the answer to your first question, so can't answer your second.
And so I'll ask again – who's "we"? If you don't know either then that's fine.
This trouble you are having with this word 'we', does seem a tad selective. A quick scan shows other instances of people using it in this very thread without provoking this level of concern. For example right above Sanctuary says:
But when we were asked nicely
Did you have the same trouble here? Or is it just when I use the word?
I was curious to know who "we" represented in your question:
You seem fond of 'answering' a (simple?) question with more questions, but no worries – your responses have satisfied my curiosity.
RL does seem to express a lot of loyalty to their class.
Someone on twitter was talking about the "patriots" meeting that got cancelled by the venue this week – calling themselves "patriots" shows their ideological roots as being a bit more American than NZ. Irony.
I have been contrasting what little I know about employment law and what I know about a mental injury that ACC covers.
A person is harassed at work and they win their case and recieve a payment for psychological distress. A person does not have a physical injury and they were caught up in a terrorist attack and have psychological distress they get nothing other than offered counselling through the mental health system if it is rolled out in your area.
There is something very amiss when it comes to the 1961 Crimes Act being used by ACC to determine cover for a non physical mental injury. Crimes of organisational failure are not included, neither is a terrorist attack or an SIS cover up.
I would argue that the brain is as physical as the rest of the body and should not be excluded from cover.
Niether is chemical poisoning if there is no phyiscal injury obvious.
I had a relative who took ACC to court over a chemical poisoning case. Causation had to be proved. What chemical test ACC accepted for causation was not stated by ACC.
It would be 30 years ago, firefighters and Dr Matt Tizard and Eva.
Yet people are covered for asbestos 30 years after exposure.
Cleangreen had a lot to say about his ill health relating to chemical poisoning. Havenn't heard from him lately. He may have given himself a break after putting so much thought and time into the two things – chemicals and freight trains where needed.
I will look up his comments.
Mr Tizard.
Why cannot Dr be used?
Found guilty of professional misconduct. Struck off.
I knew that and the misconduct by the Medical Council for not treating people who were poisoned they got off.
I think it was for Tizard's naturopathic treatment. Vitamin C infusions.
Not quite.
"Tizard the medical practitioner was found guilty of disgraceful conduct in respect of his diagnosis or management of seven patients"
Strikes me as though you could have been involved in some way with Tizard.
Yes, and all of these clear anomalies were never intended and would never have arisen if the nats hadn't won the election in 1975. Successive Labour governments have at no time made any effort whatsoever to fix this monumental fuck-up. This government will be no different.
Yes a monumental f up re ACC. It really went pear shaped in 1992 under National. Labour did a bit of a fix up in 2001. Major reform required in 2021 for mental injury without a physical cause.
Cooper Law has 1100 settlements and 1400 pending.
How many people eligible for ACC, a mental injury have not applied?
The ineligible cases who would have been eligible under the 1982 ACC Act is disturbing.
The point that needs to pushed is that the ACC scheme was never meant to restrict itself to injury caused by accident, but was also to include sickness and disability. The first set of recommendations from the Woodhouse Report were introduced by way of the 1972 Act, and provisions dealing with sickness and disability were meant to follow soon after. Labour lost the 1975 election so the latter didn't happen. Now we're stuck with the ridiculous situation where ACC is turning down thousands of claims a year saying the injury wasn't caused by an accident. If the recommendations of the Woodhouse Report had been implemented, as the government back then said they would be, we wouldn't be in this mess.
This is the pivotal issue that represents all that is wrong with the ACC scheme as it currently stands. When this was put to him as minister Lees-Galloway refused to acknowledge there was a problem. If his gutlessness is any indication of the current government's position then they too won't have the balls to do anything about it. It's the elephant in the room when problems with the fuck-up that is ACC are raised.
Susan St John and others have written a lot about this. Here's a brief article of hers on the topic but there's a lot more detailed historical analysis around. It’s the history of the scheme that’s likely to be most powerful in terms of the change needed.
http://www.nzlii.org/nz/journals/VUWLawRw/2004/33.html
If health and safety ever took a trip on a deep sea fishing boat their brains would explode. Yet most of us survive uninjured.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/432540/kiwisavers-unsettled-by-covid-switch-funds-some-miss-out-on-rebound
I'm a little unsettled myself reading this contradictory item from some two-faced money manager.
The pandemic has exposed the perils of playing the stock market, leaving some KiwiSavers the poorer.
ASB's latest report on its KiwiSaver funds indicates sharemarket volatility has got the better of some of its customers this year, with 6 percent switching to lower risk cash and conservative funds in March as Covid-19 saw sharemarkets plunge.
Senior bank economist Chris Tennent-Brown said many of those investors missed out on the rapid recovery that occurred from April onwards.
The background to the KiwiSaver investments is to ensure safety, invest wisely, and with an eye to the long term. As I understand it, and how I think it should be. Economists who think like my favourite cartoon investment advisor Alex who always knows the angles to better himself, can just stay schtum. KiwiSaver should stick to its knitting.
https://alexcartoon.s3.amazonaws.com/6522a_16032015.gif
If KiwiSaver investment firms changed their holdings as a result of Covid expectations, that is not 'playing the stock market' to get the best immediate return. That quoted sentence is totally at odds with the type of fund that Kiwi Saver is. And that commenter should just stick to 'The wise old owl' rhyme which finishes with saying that the less he spoke the more he heard.’ Good advice.
Here is an example of why the canard that National voters tactically voted for Labour to be rid of Green influence needs to be destroyed.
This is a quote from outgoing energy spokesman for National, Jonathan Young, in an interview in late October in Energy News.
"With Labour likely to maintain some form of relationship with the Green Party, Young is worried what this might mean.
But he also has hope that Labour will recognise that landslide was partly driven by strategic voters from other parties who were worried about the influence of the Greens in government – and this might make the incoming government less aligned to the Greens and more pragmatic in its approach."
This canard should be disposed of by the very recent poll, but the Young quotation shows the importance that belief in the tactical tory vote has for them- instead of accepting that the National vote went way down, and part of the reason might be that National's energy policy was not acceptable along with many other tired and outdated beliefs.
absolutely…. destroy this truth before it takes hold!
Xanthe, I'm afraid I'd need to hear you say what you wrote to distinguish whether there is cynicism, sarcasm, irony or 'trutherism' there.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/432545/teens-campaign-for-i-can-t-wait-toilet-stickers
This is a good idea. Those of us who tend towards incontinency will have some idea of the difficulties.
Is this George W. Bush on Trump? Hallelujah!
Why is everybody sucking up to Peter Jackson? What is he offering long term for NZ? He’s a user and we are so gullible.
Is it because people who need him think he will make money for them.
Sounds like all Burton's hopes are in ashes! I don't believe this statement.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/432576/freshwater-reforms-may-stifle-farm-profitability-by-83-percent-per-year-report
The changes are aimed at improving the quality of waterways and include new rules for winter grazing, nitrogen pollution and farm intensification.
The desktop report, requested by the council, notes dairy farming takes place on nearly a third of the district's agricultural land and would be the hardest hit financially.
"The regulations will challenge existing farming systems with a number of established farm practices needing to change, and new technology and innovation adoption will be required."
It conservatively estimated that farm profitability would collectively decline more than $57 million, while farm expenditure would fall by about $140 million.
Ashburton District Mayor Neil Brown said that to drop nitrate levels in lowland streams in the required timeframe, farmers would have to have fewer animals.
"They will have to reduce their stocking rates on their farms to meet the requirements and that will lower the net profitability of the farm."
Sounds a bit hyped up to me. The problem is nitrogen in the waterways. How would one reduce this?
Reduce cows.
Reduce nitrogenous fertilisers.
Increase soil water infiltration.
Riparian planting.
Myco-remediation.
One mad idea I had was to 'toilet train' cows. There is a phenomenon that cows will piss and shit more when their feet are in water. So obviously, we'd prefer they're not in the streams. Anyway…
They congregate at the shed so the trick might be to design the shed in such a manner they stand in water. Maybe standing in the yard pre-milking, but they're packed in so it'd get messy with cows defecating on each other. As they're actually milking would also work, but then it's the farmer copping more shit.
But if you can direct more of the shit and piss to one place you can manage it better to reduce pollution (solid screening – > composting (solids) and biodigestion – > feed production via azolla – > wetlands).
Then the piss and shit delivers: biogas, compost, feed, water storage, aquaculture, biodiversity and drought resistance.
That's good thinking, WTB.
Dunno about that. Isn't that a solution to overstocking and wouldn't it be better to just stop overstocking?
Got it in one!
and another
do not dairy on land inherently unsuitable for dairying
That seems a bit paranoid. In that manner one could also claim riparian planting is a solution to overstocking. Or anything that brings down levels of N in our waterways.
The problem is shit in the rivers and Farmer's justifiable fear of losing income. I clearly outlined how to reduce pollution using tried and true appropriate tech including: composting, biodigestion, aquaculture to polish water, and wetlands for detoxification processes. This all works with/without cows in standing water. It also provides opportunity and useful products.
To maintain profits with lower numbers of beasts production per beast needs to be higher, or overheads lower, or alternate income/inputs realised. Bottom line is to show farmers a respectable/comparable bottom line without having to jack up number of beasts or inputs.
It surprises me you'd see a composting system as a problem. Am I simply wasting my time.
Also I think farmers have found that they can run less cows and make more money. Sounds magical to me, but a combination of factors seem to keep up the profitability overall I think.
Regenag people say they can make more money from less stock because their inputs costs are way less than conventional farming. Hope that is true.
We need to be encouraging regenag to see. Even if just one paddock on every farm, farm working groups to support etc, linking it into the cycles used for the rest of the farm.
$$$$$ chasing can be the cause of higher than needed inputs of fertiliser, over use of antibiotics etc.
'sitting in the (afternoon) sun..
watching the waves rolling in..'
not a bad idea.
..that's my reality for the next little while..
..life's like that when you have a tiny home on wheels..
..you get to experience all that's on offer…
..life as a modern-day nomad..
..it has much to offer..
..some say it all went pear-shaped when we stopped being nomads..
..and started putting up fences and claiming ownership..
Didn't know you were doing that, nice one.
I've been reading about the gypsy people. They were tight-knit and had a good life with good values. I think it would be well worth people finding a set of values and sticking by the best of them, instead of just doing whatever is done on tv. They designed their own vardos (vans) and their own designs and were happy.
Good book by Eva Petulengro – The Girl in the Painted Caravan
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9745656-the-girl-in-the-painted-caravan Eva Petulengro was born to a romany mother, and a gorger father. She spent her childhood living in her granmother's old vardo travelling as often as her mom ..
Born into a Romany Gypsy Family in 1939, Eva Petulengro's childhood seemed to her to be idyllic in every way. She would travel the country with her family in their painted caravan and spend evenings by the fire as they sang and told stories of their past. She didn't go to school or visit a doctor when she was unwell. Instead her family would gather wild herbs to make traditional remedies, hunt game and rabbits for food, and while the men tended horses to make a living, the young girls would join the women in reading palms. But in the post-war era, Eva's perfect world would be turned upside down…
Gingko great tree – seeds can be eaten when poisonous outer is off. Tough. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2020/11/ginkgo-trees-nearly-went-extinct-how-we-saved-these-living-fossils/
Cappadocia Turkey – underground caverns carved thousands of years ago.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/03/150325-underground-city-cappadocia-turkey-archaeology/
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKN5muVr5zA
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9UyoIPYByM