Open mike 10/08/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 10th, 2016 - 205 comments
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205 comments on “Open mike 10/08/2016”

  1. Paul 1

    Looks like Canada has some of the same issues as us.
    Out of control house prices.
    Capital flight from China.

    https://news.vice.com/article/canada-is-seizing-more-suspect-money-from-chinese-travellers-than-ever-before

  2. DH 2

    Anyone feel like some sleuthing? I’ve been trying to figure out how rents are calculated in the CPI and hit a bit of a dead end. Reason for asking is the CPI numbers have never looked right to me and I’d like to know which is wrong – my intuition or the CPI

    Background;

    The CPI index for rents has gone from a base of 1000 in June 2006 to 1240 in June 2016. That’s an increase in rents of 24% over ten years. In inflation terms that’s annual rent inflation of about 2.2%. (That just isn’t believable to me, it’s too low.)

    The Household Economic Survey also reports rents and those figures say rents have increased by 39% in only eight years (from 2007 to 2015) That’s annual rent inflation of about 4.2%. (That’s a little more believable.)

    This link here explains rented dwellings in the CPI;

    http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/economic_indicators/CPI_inflation/rented-dwellings-in-the-cpi.aspx

    What I can’t work out is the bit about state housing. It seems to be saying they’re using income-related rents to calculate rent inflation on state houses and that surely can’t be right. Any clues?

    Source data here;

    http://www.stats.govt.nz/~/media/Statistics/Browse%20for%20stats/HouseholdEconomicSurvey/HOTPYeJun15/hesi-yejun15-tables.xls

    http://www.stats.govt.nz/~/media/Statistics/Browse%20for%20stats/ConsumersPriceIndex/HOTPJun16qtr/cpi-jun16-all-tables.xls

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

      Will this help?

      Housing Restructuring (Income-Related Rents) Amendment Act 2000

      See Section 46: Calculating income-related rents, but it’s a swamp of clauses.

      • DH 2.1.1

        Thanks but not really. It’s how state housing is affecting the CPI that I’m trying to work out. I understand income related rents, I just don’t understand its context in the CPI.

        It’s kind of a paradox;

        People in state houses pay rent as a (calculated) percentage of their income. If their income doesn’t go up then their rent doesn’t go up either.

        Wages & benefits are linked to inflation. If rents don’t go up, because incomes haven’t gone up, then CPI inflation will be lower and therefore wages & benefits won’t go up much either.

        I’m idly wondering if the inclusion of state housing is dragging down the CPI figures to paint a misleading picture of rent inflation.

        • Pat 2.1.1.1

          with only around 68000 state rentals the feedback impact on CPI (which is weighted I believe) will be negligible….and thats assuming state rentals are included in the CPI.

          • DH 2.1.1.1.1

            Could be Pat, I looked for the weightings and they don’t have it there so I don’t know.

            68,000 is 10-15% of the rental stock I believe so it would make a difference even with weightings applied. The thing is, state houses should not be included in the CPI at all and I wonder why they are.

            • Pat 2.1.1.1.1.1

              around 12% (assuming 100% occupancy) but if the rents are only increasing in that stock by the rate of CPI then the impact is negligible….the movement in private rentals will be the driving stat for the following rental CPI

              • DH

                State house rents aren’t increasing by the CPI Pat, they’re set by income not inflation. Real inflation on income related rents would be close to zero so that 12% could drag down rent CPI by up to 12%.. if they are using income related rents to calculate the CPI there.

                • Blackcap

                  It will not drag it down by 12% absolutely though DH. Pat is right by saying that the State Housing impact is negligible.
                  Ie state housing rent does not increase at all 0% (12% of market)
                  Other housing increases by 33% (88% of market)

                  Overall increase in rent CPI = 29.04%

                  • DH

                    Yeah you’re right and it’s not enough of an anomaly to explain why the CPI is reporting half the inflation the household income survey is.

                    The HES report for 2009 says this;

                    “Results from the Household Economic Survey (Income) (HES (Income)) for the year ended June 2009 show no overall change in average weekly expenditure on housing costs from the previous year, Statistics New Zealand said today. This result was made up of an increase across all households in average weekly property and ground rent payments (up 8.1 percent), offset by decreases in average mortgage principal repayments (down 7.1 percent) and average mortgage interest payments (down 2.8 percent).

                    For those making rent payments, median (half pay more, half pay less) weekly rent payments increased from $220 in 2007/08 to $241 in 2008/09 (up 9.5 percent). ”

                    CPI for year ended June 2009 says rent inflation was 1.7%. So how does the HES get 8.1% and the CPI only 1.7% ?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      SNAFU, probably. It’s still worth asking the question. An OIA request for the formula?

    • Macro 2.2

      The CPI used to include every house sale in the country – I know because I used to have to count it up and work out the average house price to 7 significant figures ( that was in 1967). There were no adding machines or computers available either. We converted the CPI from Pounds shillings and pence to dollars and cents manually. One electric calculator to the office of 12 was all there was. All done with pencil and paper. Standard deviations worked out to 7 sig figs. And not a word spoken the whole day! Muldoon would ring up and ask what would be the effect on the CPI if he raised the price of bread by 1 penny.
      The govt decided (around 2000) to remove house prices from the CPI for the reason that people didn’t buy a house every year. (i.e. they wanted “underlying inflation”) – it also meant that the CPI increase would not be so great so incomes based on CPI increases (i.e. benefits and pensions) would not be affected so much……

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.1

        Ahhh, the hysterical, irrational left.

        If it was truly believed that Trump was inciting violence against Clinton, his own Secret Service detail would arrest him and take him down.

        • Sabine 3.1.1.1

          yes the hysterically irrational left indeed

          https://twitter.com/LEBassett/status/763110016152928258

          frankly i think it is time that you go into your time out corner and start thinking about what you are actually standing for.

          • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.1

            OK I’ll wait for the Secret Service to arrest Trump for threatening a confirmed Presidential Candidate. When do you think it will happen, today or tomorrow?

            Yes Mummy, whatever you say.

            • Lanthanide 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Haven’t we already established that the elites aren’t treated the same way as the peasants, eg Hillary got away with her email system without charge?

              If it’s good enough for HIllary to avoid a charge, then surely it’s good enough for Trump.

              • adam

                Good point Lanthanide.

              • Colonial Viper

                Lanth, Hillary was actually guilty of committing multiple National Security felonies over a long period of time. You equating that to what Trump may or may not have meant in an offhand quip is ludicrous.

                And Adam, you’re smarter than that.

                • McFlock

                  sooooo – as a billionaire committing a more minor offence, wouldn’t trump be less likely to be arrested than Clinton?

                • “Hillary was actually guilty of committing multiple National Security felonies over a long period of time”

                  when does she get out of jail – oh that’s right…

                  • Colonial Viper

                    And then there’s Hillary taking vast $$$$$ from Russians and Saudis when she was Sec State signing off on Russian and Saudi business deals.

                    Pretty sure there are national security implications all through that.

                    • McFlock

                      yep. Incitement to kill a candidate seems trivial compared to all that. Not a chance the secret service will arrest him.

                    • “Pretty sure there are national security implications all through that.”

                      yeahnah

                      your ‘pretty sure’ ain’t sure or even near sure – just a guess from an outsider reading the net.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      hey marty mars, turn your brain back on: if the Sec State is receiving massive monetary sums from foreign donors she is totally compromised.

                    • is that what the websites you follow are saying – I’m surprised you can regurgitate it with a straight face and pretend it is some original thought or insight from you.

                      You’re just a modern-day TV watcher – “look it is on the news it must be true” – so gullible – your thinking is in freefall and breaking the laws of physics bubby

            • Macro 3.1.1.1.1.2

              Michael Hayden, former director of the CIA and National Security Agency, said on the same channel:

              “Well, let me say, if someone had have said that outside the hall he’d be in the back of a police wagon now with the secret service questioning him.”

              So it seems that it was where he said it is what prevents the police from arresting him. Even so – such dog whistling is highly irresponsible – and can you imagine how he and Rodrigo Duterte would get along?

        • North 3.1.1.2

          The finest, truest, leftiest CV still trumpeting away for his finest, truest, leftiest Donald Trump I note. Sounds like there’s something wickedly wrong with your wiring CV. And as to your ‘if this’ and ‘if that’ the Secret Service ‘would do such’…….what master of the universe blow arse is that ? Excuse me for paralleling you with BM and Fisiani.

          • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.2.1

            Not interested in having your approval North. Sneer away.

            • adam 3.1.1.2.1.1

              The problem with you supporting trump Colonial Viper and his oblique use of violence as a political tool is that you would be one of his victims. How long do you have to wait – till you turn around, and there is no one to support you? Think leftist, disabled, gypsies, gays, nonconformists, free thinkers, artist, poets, pacifist, pasifika, and asian. It’s a list because that is what facists do, they go down lists. Till there is no one left to oppose them.

              How long will it be before trump comes for the Chinese, especially if he is elected and not doing well at home. How long before internment camps, so american chinese can be protected? How much pressure would it take for the same to happen here?

              A fascist is a fascist. And I’m not seeing many left or right disagreeing trump is a fascist.

              Yes h.r.c is a bloody awful alternative.

              Guess what – you have a choice, Vote Green, and organise.

              But supporting a fascist, come on, take a step back and do self interest for one bloody minute. Think of your family and friends who are leftist, disabled, gypsies, gays, nonconformists, free thinkers, artist, poets, pacifist, pasifika, and asian – and ask how long before they go under the economic bus which is fascism.

              Because you are showing a serious lack of understanding how fascist economics works.

              • Colonial Viper

                Go away Adam. Under both Bush’s and continuing under Obama, universities throughout the USA have been rapidly closing down liberal arts, humanities and fine arts programmes, as well as destroying the free press and investigative journalism; don’t presume to lecture me about how far the high finance corporate-government meld has progressed in the USA.

                As for Trump coming after the Chinese and after other races, go ahead and buy into the Clinton establishment propaganda. Trump is very clear that he employs and supports LEGAL immigrants in the USA.

      • marty mars 3.1.2

        Pretty clear statement from the Donny. No doubt he’ll run like a coward from it when he is cornered.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.2.1

          How come Trump hasn’t been arrested by Clinton’s secret service detail then?

          • marty mars 3.1.2.1.1

            So he didn’t say it – shit this is fucken big – hope the MiB are onto it.

          • joe90 3.1.2.1.2

            The Secret Service is aware of the comments made earlier this afternoon.— U.S. Secret Service (@SecretService) August 9, 2016

            edit:

            Katrina Pierson's long-awaited explanation: Trump was saying an assassination "could" happen, not that it "should" happen.— Laura Bassett (@LEBassett) August 9, 2016

            @eelcobvr Spox Trump vanaf 1:45 "he was talking about what COULD happen. He doesn't want that to happen" https://t.co/lKeJPHFmwz— De Alcoholist (@DeAlcoholist) August 9, 2016

          • weka 3.1.2.1.3

            “How come Trump hasn’t been arrested by Clinton’s secret service detail then?”

            For obvious reasons the threshhold for legal action against someone inciting violence is relatively high. I’m pretty sure Trump and his team know how to pitch dog whistles just below that.

            Interesting that you would defend Trump on this, although I guess the elite are legit targets.

            • Colonial Viper 3.1.2.1.3.1

              I’m not so much defending Trump as much as I am not falling for his year long tactic of trolling the liberal media with an ongoing stream of outrageous bullshit, everything from Megyn Kelly’s periods to this.

              I am however totally mystified as to why Trump’s campaign has not changed gears into a serious fullbore general election campaign. As far as I can tell, he is still acting and speaking as if he is still running for the Republican Primaries in Texas and South Dakota.

              • Lanthanide

                “I am however totally mystified as to why Trump’s campaign has not changed gears into a serious fullbore general election campaign. As far as I can tell, he is still acting and speaking as if he is still running for the Republican Primaries in Texas and South Dakota.”

                He has. This is what his ‘fullbore general election campaign’ looks like.

                Just now realising that you’re backing a dud?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Hi Lanth, I’m not afraid to back candidates that others see as political losers. And, I still see a clear Trump win come November despite the latest polls having Trump 10 pts behind Hillary 🙂

              • The outrageous bullshit comes from trump – he keeps saying stuff – he wont stop either cos he is terrific at listening to his own viice.

              • weka

                “I’m not so much defending Trump as much as I am not falling for his year long tactic of trolling the liberal media with an ongoing stream of outrageous bullshit, everything from Megyn Kelly’s periods to this.”

                Yeah, nah, I don’t think he is so stupid as to think that some of his constituents won’t hear the ralling cry to fight back. Or maybe he is and truly doesn’t see the potential for people to act on the call. That would make for a great Prez. You can call it trolling if you want, but it’s clear he has no regard for civil order and will undermine it to achieve his aims.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Obama has just approved the sale of $1.5B in armaments to misogynist Islamic extremist terror exporting dictatorial Saudi Arabia.

                  Thats the real way you keep law and order in the world.

                  • Ad

                    God that’s just sick. I just managed to get through the re-showing of Fahrenheit 9-11 on tv last night.

                    Even if only one thing about it is true in the film, backing the Saudis in anything let alone armaments is just sick no matter who is doing it as US President.

                    • grumpy

                      Come on now, they gave the Clintons $US100m. They only gotb what they paid for!

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Saudis have been either the biggest or second biggest donors to the Clinton Foundation over the years.

                    • Ad

                      Neither main US party comes out clean in their dealings with the Saudis, over many decades.

                  • McFlock

                    nice deflection from Trump’s latest offence. Nobody noticed. Fuck you’re awesome.

                    • Sabine

                      0oh but you know that Trump will save the world and of course not do anything like it.

                      and here, have a pony

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I support Trump ahead of Clinton because Trump won’t be seeking military confrontation with Russia and China in the Pacific, and because Trump will be shit canning the TPP asap.

                      You support Clinton because – who the fuck knows. Because she raised way more money from the financial sector and from Saudi ruling interests I guess.

                    • Lanthanide

                      “You support Clinton because – who the fuck knows. ”

                      Because the next POTUS is likely to appoint 2-3 supreme court justices, and if Trump gets in, he will appoint conservative ones that set back social progress in the US for decades to come.

                    • grumpy

                      “Because the next POTUS is likely to appoint 2-3 supreme court justices, and if Trump gets in, he will appoint conservative ones that set back social progress in the US for decades to come.”
                      So you are prepared to sacrifice the future of the world for…..identity politics?
                      Must be an amazingly large dead rat.

                    • McFlock

                      Because she doesn’t see nuclear proliferation as a substitute for US military expenditure.

                      Because she knows the difference between bombing a city and nuking it.

                      Because she doesn’t think “I’ve been very successful” is a “sacrifice” comparable to having a child die in military service.

                      Because she can see the problem with government databases of everyone who is of a particular religion.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Everyone just take a look at who has donated millions to the Clinton Foundation in the last 10 years, and who is donating millions to her campaign every day now.

                    • McFlock

                      Everyone just take a look at who has donated millions to the Clinton Foundation in the last 10 years.

                      Just as a quick summary, which of those donors have demanded that South Korea and Japan build their own nuclear weapons?

                      Even someone who wishes to preserve the status quo (not that Clinton necessarily does) is better than someone whose impulsive idiocy would result in more fingers on nuclear triggers in potential global flashpoints.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Get real. Both Japan and South Korea already have nuclear break out times measured in single digit months.

                    • McFlock

                      Both Japan and South Korea already have nuclear break out times measured in single digit months.

                      Well, assuming their fuel refining equipment can be easily recalibrated to producing sufficient quantities of weapons-grade materials in that timeframe (and that you’re not just parroting important-sounding jargon that you’ve read on RT), it’s still a fuckload more stable than having a launch time measured in moments.

                      That’s assuming that NK won’t pre-emptively launch within that timeframe, of course. Because even the mention of nuclear proliferation in that region gives a narrow timeframe before the penalty for diplomatic failure dramatically increases. Trump is the sort of dickhead who goes on a jaunt through downtown Sarajevo in an open-top car. 10 million dead later…

                    • Colonial Viper

                      NATO and the US wanted Yugoslavia dismembered and ‘balkanized’ in their determination to move western military bases eastwards. They got their wish.

                      You can say thank you to Bill Clinton.

                      Here is a link to RT’s youtube page. RT is youtube’s most popular news channel by far.

                      https://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday

                    • TheExtremist

                      RT is as trustworthy as Fox

                    • McFlock

                      All very interesting CV, but completely irrelevant to South Korea or Japan’s potential nuclear capabilities, the destabilising effects of development of those potential capabilities, and whether you are simply parroting important-sounding words with no real understanding of what they mean.

                      When you calculated the “nuclear break out times” for Japan and South Korea, were you factoring current stockpiles of various grades of enriched uranium as well as current enrichment capacity?

                  • GregJ

                    Obama has just approved the sale of $1.5B in armaments to misogynist Islamic extremist terror exporting dictatorial Saudi Arabia.

                    Just in time for the new air offensive in Yemen.

                    France has also just signed a deal for €1 billion with Kuwait for 30 Airbus Caracal Helicopters.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Yemen, the poorest country in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia with the most advanced, most expensive military technology on the planet.

                      Yet, notice how the Sauds have failed to lock Yemen down…those Yemeni tribesmen are like the Fremen from Arrakis.

                    • GregJ

                      @CV

                      Yes – some of the Gulf States are withdrawing forces from the Coalition. It doesn’t get a lot of attention in the West but it is a nasty little war.

                      I should also add the UK is up to it’s neck supplying weapons to the Saudis – £3.3 billion last year and £500 million in Q1 so far this year.

                      http://oneworld.org/2016/07/27/uk-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia-top-33bn-in-year-of-yemen-bombing/

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Blair was (is) a big champion of UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia.

                      This is doubly interesting as Saudi Arabia is the very well funded base of wahhabi extremism.

      • Rodel 3.1.3

        Tony Schwartz, the guy who wrote [Trump’s book] The Art of the Deal, says Trump never jokes.
        “I fear that an unbalanced person hears that in this inflamed environment and, God forbid, thinks that was a threat. I certainly take it as a threat, I really do, and Trump needs to apologise.”

        • rhinocrates 3.1.3.1

          Trump’s perfectly aware that he’s shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theatre.

          • seeker 3.1.3.1.1

            Exactly rhinocrates@11.05am, because Trump is nothing more than a showman. Heaven save us from such nitwits.
            And I thought choosing a B grade movie actor was bizarre in times past.

  3. save nz 4

    Why we say TPPA No Way

    Court rules for Chevron against Ecuadorians in $9bn rainforest damage case

    https://www.rt.com/usa/355161-court-chevron-ecudorians-rainforest/

    Also on that link a video with

    Gulf of Mexico suffers third oil spill in two weeks

  4. save nz 5

    Lucky this poor tourist did not get his wallet stollen in Australia… no one would care in Nauru…

    Chinese tourist who lost wallet in Germany ends up in refugee shelter
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/08/chinese-tourist-who-lost-wallet-in-germany-ends-up-in-refugee-shelter

    • Sabine 5.1

      oh my goodness the poor man. When it comes to bureaucracy only France is better then Germany.

  5. Colonial Viper 6

    Keiser Report: USA reduced to a one party state of the elites with corporates; bankers and billionaires lining up behind Hillary Clinton

    Max Keiser and his partner Stacey Herbert do one of the best political economic shows anywhere, and its available on RT’s youtube channel.

    Their latest show is a knock out.
    – Warnings in 2007/2008 that opposing banker bailouts for the rich would lead to economic collapse, is now causing political collapse.
    – Massive funds have been transferred from savers and pension funds to billionaire speculators.
    – The Washington elite from billionaires to military industrial complex and neocon Republicans are all lining up to support Clinton.
    – Corporate media a tool of the Washington elite to mock ‘ignorant’, ‘lazy’, ‘red neck’, ‘racists’.
    – 16% of the 43M Americans with student debt are in long term default: ignoring letters, phone calls and debt collectors. This is one basis of political revolution.
    – Clinton campaign recently raised US$120M from the financial sector. Trump campaign received $19,000.
    – Putin now widely blamed for the political, economic and refugee woes of the west similar to Cold War days.

    • Sabine 6.1

      nothing to do with the republicans turning into a party of fuckwits, forced birthers, anti science and religious nuts.

      ey, nothing to do at all…..never saw that one coming ey?

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        Hi Sabine, thanks for expressing the hatefulness and disdain of the elite well educated intellectual classes.

        • weka 6.1.1.1

          thanks for stereotyping criticising of Republicans, and so patronisingly too! ;-p

          She forgot racists. I read an analysis a while back about during the Civil Rights era, the racists left the Democratic Party and joined the Republicans, which consolidated active racism there and changed the culture of the party. That some parts of the non-elite vote for the Republicans for a range of reasons doesn’t mean that the GOP doesn’t have serious bigotry issues.

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1

            I doubt they are any more serious than the bigotry issues of the Democrats and their billionaire hedgefund backers.

            • weka 6.1.1.1.1.1

              They’re different bigotry issues though, and we should look at them in the respective parties, not try and pretend they don’t exist or aren’t important.

              • Colonial Viper

                That’s exactly right. US politics is incredibly polarised. The constant is that the bottom 50% or more of people socioeconomically are totally disenfranchised by the establishment machine, whether that machine is wearing an elephant sticker or a donkey sticker.

                And this is of course where Trump gets leverage.

                There is a long time to go until November and I am still picking a clear win by Trump.

                • weka

                  And in the meantime the lefties you despise will keep naming bigotry because it’s the right thing to do.

                  • adam

                    Of course we should pull up bigotry weka.

                    Does that mean we should not criticise h.r.c? I know some commentators here have fallen for the juvenile rhetoric that a criticism of of h.r.c. – is to support trump.

                    The politics of fear, is the politics of fear, both trump and h.r.c are engaged in it. If anything both help each other in that game.

                    We should not play, especially in NZ.

                    national are going to pull out the fear card at some stage, my guess over the green/labour memorandum, then terrorism of some sort, or some other schmuck lies and finally b.s. — all to put fear into the voting population.

                    I say vote morally, then fear won’t cloud your vision.

                    • weka

                      I guess the problem that you have there adam is that CV would actually vote for Trump.

                      I wouldn’t see myself or Sabine (who responded in this thread) as saying that Clinton is above criticism. That’s would just be weird.

                    • adam

                      I did not mean you or Sabine by my comment, not my intent.

                      I agree on C.V though he needs to get his head around what a fascist is. Which trump is.

                      He also needs to realise any totalitarian be they left or right is somthing to be opposed, not voted for.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Obama has overseen the largest expansion of the security surveillance state and has just approved another US$1.5B of big corporate made military arms to be sold to the world’s leading misogynist, terrorist exporting, 9/11 facilitating dictatorial state, Saudi Arabia.

                      Clinton would continue the same track just on neocon steroids.

                      So keep preaching about fascism, you guys have no idea what it is.

                    • adam

                      Pull your head in CV I know very well what fascism is, I can list off my family members who died fighting it if you like. Or how about the German and Polish part of my family that was wiped out by the fascists. Or family and friends who lived and died through Franco’s fascist state.

                      It’s you who has no bloody idea, by supporting a fascist – because trump is one.I know a lot of liberals put proto in front because they can’t bear to think about it. But all my American friends left and right agree trump is a fascist. He want to suspend habeas corpus, and look at his last economic speech – that is handing power to the corporations. He may oppose the TPP but he will push through somthing worse.

                      Fascism has only one way to make an economy work – war external or internal – and he’s two damn steps away from that. Bombing ISIS to the stone age. Attacking Mexicans.

                      He is not an isolationist, you’re kidding yourself if you think he is.

                      And again there is an alternative – organise with americans and encourage them to vote Green and keep building a movement. Which by the way will be crushed if trump gets to power.

                    • weka

                      tautoko that adam, thanks for the context.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Fucking hell Adam, with the US plea bargaining system as it has been misused for over a decade now habeas corpus has been nothing more effective than theatre.

                      As for war, Killary Clinton is your neocon war master. She destroyed Libya, and cackled about it on TV, and then helped funnel arms to Islamists in Syria to take down Assad. She is in with the regime changing Russia/China sabre rattling neocon crowd up to her eye balls.

                      Forget it mate, I hope you get your dream, go organise for the US Greens and gift Killary, whom you seem to see as the lesser of two evils, the Oval Office.

                    • adam

                      Come on CV you know I’m no fan of h.r.c. but must see trump is not an option either.

                      h.r.c is evil and terrible, trump is evil and terrible for the love of God man. It’s two evils and I won’t support either.

                      I’m worried you seem to think it is OK to support one of them.

                      to quote Jeff Davies “well, civilisation it’s had a good run…”

                • TheExtremist

                  Wait, Viper is actually a Trump supporter? Really? Wow. I thought s/he was a leftie.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    I’m definitely not a warmongering bankster paid for neocon Clinton supporter like you appear to be.

                    • TheExtremist

                      Wow. Really?
                      Not liking Trump =/= supporting Clinton.

                      I have never made a supporting comment about Clinton anywhere. What do you base my “support” of Clinton on?

                      Are you so thin-skinned regarding your support of Trump that you sneer “Boo! Clinton Shill!” to anyone who questions it?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Just returning your snide BS with the same mate, don’t take it personally.

                    • TheExtremist

                      Errr I’m pretty sure I didn’t say anything snide or otherwise. Nor did I say anything that could be considered “BS” as I was asking a question, not making a statement.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    You weren’t asking a question. You were being a smartarse.

                    • TheExtremist

                      Ahhh no, I was asking a question because as I am a new commentator I had assumed you were, like most of us, a left winger. Then I saw you stumping for Trump so wanted to know if I had got my initial impression wrong and perhaps you were in fact in the same league as Pukish Rouge or Srylands.

                      Jesus man, you are thin-skinned.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Yeah, a snide shit, as I thought.

                    • TheExtremist

                      Unbelievable

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Further, if you had a sincere bone in your body you would have directed your original question towards me and I would have answered you matter of factly.

                      The establishment left is utterly obsolete and irrelevant now. Only a radical departure from status quo economics will provide us with any genuine hope.

                    • TheExtremist

                      So Trump is the answer? You seriously think Trump will deviate from the current status quo? Please…have you seen his ‘economic’ plan which gives billions of tax breaks to the top earners?

                      You’re no left winger (or right winger). At least both left and right wingers have principles. Stumping for a misoginistic, racist, pig thick con-man because you hate Clinton with such a passion makes you all things trump is.

                      Begone stupid fellow. You’re wasting everyone’s time.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Insincere and snide. With a foul mouthed mind as well. Read you right up front.

                    • TheExtremist

                      From now on I can only assume you’re as racist nd misoginistic as Trump.

                      Poor form.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Ahhh, a Thorndon Bubble type.

                    • TheExtremist

                      Sorry, you’ve lost me, racist

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Use your Thorndon Bubble Labourite sneers all you want.

                      [Adding Thorndon Bubble to the spam filter. Abusive language is not welcome here. Lift your game CV. TRP]

                    • TheExtremist

                      I’m sorry, I’m not sure as to what you’re referring to. Thorndon? Labour? Huh?

                      I’m guessing you also think woman should be punished for having abortions and that the US should build a huge wall to keep the Mexicans out. Is that right, racist?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      *Shrug* Keep it up. I figured you out from your very first comment.

                    • TheExtremist

                      Completely lost me I’m afraid. Racist.

                    • rhinocrates

                      Wow! I’m really glad that I’ve stopped drinking and take my fluoxetine these days!

                  • srylands

                    “Then I saw you stumping for Trump so wanted to know if I had got my initial impression wrong and perhaps you were in fact in the same league as Pukish Rouge or Srylands.”
                    _________

                    What? I have never made any comment on Trump. For the record, Trump is a maniac.

                    I ask that you withdraw and apologise.

          • Sabine 6.1.1.1.2

            i am not talking about the 60’s, i am talking about the current lot of republicans of the year 2016.

            Am i that off?
            Is Rubio not a forced birther by saying that he would not allow for an abortion should a women carry a baby with microcephaly and not letting a women take this decision with her husband/partner and her doctor?

            Is Pence who introduces himself as a ‘Christian’ not anti-science and a religious nut when refusing to do the simplest thing in order to prevent a health crisis in the State that he runs?
            http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/under-pences-leadership-response-to-heroin-epidemic-criticized-as-ineffective-226759

            https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/07/marco-rubio-zika-virus-abortions-florida

            is kasich not someone who fits the description of a bit of a sexits?

            http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/22/politics/john-kasich-women-kitchen/

            or cruz? Not a bit of a wanker here with this statement?

            http://www.washingtonblade.com/2016/04/25/cruz-indicates-trans-women-should-only-use-bathroom-at-home/

            i don’t think i am out of order when saying that the republican party has only itself to blame for the issues it currently has.

    • Lanthanide 6.2

      Sabine is completely correct.

      It’s only a 1 party state, because the Republicans have, over the last 3 decades, deliberately lied to their supporters and kept them like mushrooms. This has culminated in the flawed candidate that their base rabidly support, while the party leaders themselves are aghast.

      They’re reaping their own whirlwind.

    • Chooky 6.3

      thanx CV…must watch!

    • BM 7.1

      Comrade Little says NO to any right wing fraternization.

    • adam 7.2

      There is a whole post on that, /leggett-in-parkins-pocket/

      and it’s called party discipline somthing both you and BM have criticised labour for not having.

      • Puckish Rogue 7.2.1

        Apart from Shearer attending that is 😉

        • adam 7.2.1.1

          Which puts a bit of a kibosh on you first argument 🙂

        • Muttonbird 7.2.1.2

          No surprise there. Shearer has ‘crossed the floor’ once already this year.

          • Puckish Rogue 7.2.1.2.1

            Labours a broad church remember…or is it! 🙂

            • Sabine 7.2.1.2.1.1

              that is a really stupid comment.

              if someone changes their political views over the years, and that can happen, it would behoove that person to leave the party that no longer represents them.

              in Shearers case it seems that he is only at the Labour Party in order to pay his bills, this should not be good enough for anyone.
              Leave, join National or Act, and get elected again on this platform. IF he can’t do that, I think it is fair of the Leader of the Party to ask to a. tow the line or b. get the heck outta dodge.

              Labour is a big tent, and this past Saturday it was nice to see just how big a tent it is during our local little 100 year celebration. A nice cross section of the part of the country we live in. But we don’t need to keep people in that only stay to shit the bed but then refuse to wash the linnen.

        • Sabine 7.2.1.3

          he could leave the Labour Party and join National or Act. No biggie. Free choice and shit.

  6. Muttonbird 9

    Jesus! This, a day after a Reid poll showed that 60% of people think too many are coming in.

    More than 200,000 people were issued temporary work visas in the year ending June, almost 30,000 more than the year before.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/310591/nz-visa-numbers-reach-'staggering'-record-high

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      Immigrants aren’t the problem so the lefties keep saying on this site.

      I’m with Winston, time to chop back immigration numbers by at least 90%.

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1

          That’s what I’m saying. We need to severely cut back immigration, as well as banning foreign ownership of NZ property. Including existing ownership.

          • GregJ 9.1.1.1.1

            It must be the heat here – but I sort of agree with CV.

            According to a Westpac study many of the new migrants are international students who are looking to stay after completing their studies.

            ” The student boom began in late 2013, shortly after visa rules were relaxed to make it easier for foreign students to work. And study has historically been a popular first step on the path to settlement for Indian migrants, most of whom first arrive in New Zealand as international students.”

            You have to wonder how many are genuine students and how many are using the “student” status to come in under the wire.

            90% cut sounds about right – for a net of about 6-10,000 (with about 2000 of those places for refugees). Harsh but necessary.

            • Muttonbird 9.1.1.1.1.1

              This. Yet Blinglish today continues his line that student return home after studying.

              It’s now well known that foreign ‘students’ are using our lax laws as a back door into the country for their families so why won’t the opposition call him on this bullshit?

            • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1.1.2

              I have no issues with increasing refugee numbers by 1000 to 2000 for every 10,000 standard immigrant numbers slashed.

              • Fuck you is what I say. I am a leftie and I am against cutting immigration numbers – although I would drastically change the criteria to be able to immigrate AND I think that refugee numbers should double and double again.

                And guess what colonic biter I KNOW a lot of lefties and most nzers disagree with me on all or some of those points.

                YOU have no issues – what a laugh – you are a nobody who gleans his massive insight via videos – clap. clap. clap.

                You are a bullshit artist and not even very good at that

                [Marty, I think the phrase ‘do not feed the troll’ is appropriate here. CV is a sad, bitter person with obvious anger issues towards pretty much the entire human race. However, ‘Fuck you’ isn’t the best response and comes pretty close to pointless abuse, which is not acceptable. The rest of your comment is spot on. TRP]

                • Colonial Viper

                  I would be happy with your tightening up immigration criteria, as long as the end result is a massive slashing of immigration numbers.

                  YOU have no issues – what a laugh – you are a nobody who gleans his massive insight via videos – clap. clap. clap.

                  ???

                • Colonial Viper

                  Oh look, TRP’s moderation of personal abuse itself includes personal abuse. So classy.

                  [Challenging moderation. Take a week off. TRP]

      • weka 9.1.2

        “Immigrants aren’t the problem so the lefties keep saying on this site.”

        Enough with the lies CV, you’re way past what is ok here.

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.2.1

          Really? In that case, feel free to tell me straight up your view on this weka.

          Are too many immigrants part of the problem that Auckland is facing?

          IMO the answer is yes – and I think Winston’s proposals to reduce immigration numbers by 90% plus are one way to sort this out.

          So what say you?

          • Chooky 9.1.2.1.1

            I agree with you and Winston CV…but not weka

          • weka 9.1.2.1.2

            Really? In that case, feel free to tell me straight up your view on this weka.

            Are too many immigrants part of the problem that Auckland is facing?

            IMO the answer is yes – and I think Winston’s proposals to reduce immigration numbers by 90% plus are one way to sort this out.

            So what say you?

            I can’t comment on Auckland because I don’t know enough about it, but I’d guess yes that immigration is an issue. I know it certainly is in the South Island (worker visas being the main problem, but also permanent immigration from the UK and the US on good exchange rates and higher wages having bumped up land prices).

            No idea what the reduction in numbers should be (90% seems over the top, and it depends on what kind of immigration we are talking about). I’d like to see big changes to the immigration criteria.

            So in general, I’d say I’m a leftie who says immigrants aren’t the problem, but our immigration policy most definitely is. The only regular commenters I’ve seen who argue for open borders are marty and Bill. I would say that many commenters here are concerned about the impacts of the current immigration policy. Both Labour and the Greens have talked this year about reducing numbers.

            That btw is not a new position from me, and I’ve said similar on ts in the past.

    • joe90 10.1

      Surprise surprise, Hamas have their very own sayanim.
      /

    • Ad 10.2

      I was a little surprised to see the Australian government suspend aid so fast after this matter was announced. Reminds me of the effective blacklisting of CORSO internationally for their work in the Philippines during the leftist uprisings of the late 1970s when they were accused of supporting insurrection. Cheap unsubstantiated shots that continue to enable the status quo of suffering.

      I am a strong Israel supporter, but I cannot for the life of me see what the point is of shutting out the last remaining dogged aid organizations who are still in there making a positive difference to suffering people.

      • joe90 10.2.1

        Moshe Feiglin, former Likud MKN –

        Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel.

        http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/15326

      • Puckish Rogue 10.2.2

        I’m going to go with embarrassment causing the Aussies to suspend aid so quickly

        https://donaldelley.wordpress.com/2016/08/05/the-jewish-press-world-vision-rejected-our-warnings-about-funding-hamas-terrorism/

        “For the past four years, Tel Aviv based civil rights center Shurat HaDin has been warning that funds provided to Gaza by the world’s largest evangelical charity World Vision were being utilized for terrorism, the organization said in a statement Thursday, following the indictment by Israel of Mohammed El Halabi, a Hamas terrorist and senior WV employee who is accused of transferring as much as $50 million in charity funds to support Hamas terrorist activities.”

        “In 2012, Shurat HaDin notified the Australian government that its aid money administrated by World Vision was being transferred to front charities of Palestinian terror groups in Gaza. Both the Australian government and WV rejected Shurat HaDin’s warning.”

        “In 2015, Shurat HaDin again cautioned the Australian government that WV was operating as an active arm of the PFLP and other terror groups. WV chief executive Tim Costello vehemently denied the charges and claimed that WV had “no interest in supporting terrorism.”

      • Sabine 10.2.3

        history, repeating itself my be the answer

      • Colonial Viper 10.2.4

        I was a little surprised to see the Australian government suspend aid so fast after this matter was announced.

        Australian authorities were no doubt already well briefed before the allegations were made public.

    • Sabine 10.3

      hmmmmmmm,
      Quote” World Vision’s cumulative operating budget in Gaza for the past ten years was approximately US$22.5 million, which makes the alleged amount of up to US$50 million being diverted hard to reconcile. Mohammad El Halabi was the manager of our Gaza operations only since October 2014; before that time he managed only portions of the Gaza budget. World Vision’s accountability processes cap the amount individuals in management positions at his level to a signing authority of US$15,000.
      ” Quote end.

      oh well

      • Puckish Rogue 10.3.1

        Well World Visions donations are about to dry up to a trickle I’d suggest

        • Sabine 10.3.1.1

          nothing else to add?

          hmm, i might just have to donate.

          • Puckish Rogue 10.3.1.1.1

            If you want to donate and you specifically want to donate to World Vision then maybe wait and see what happens with the allegations

            Or donate to another charity instead

        • Psycho Milt 10.3.1.2

          Well World Visions donations are about to dry up to a trickle I’d suggest

          Oh, please – like the people likely to give a shit about this would have been happy to give money for aid to Gaza anyway. If anything will dry up World Vision’s donations from right-wingers, it’s the news that they’ve been helping people in Gaza.

    • Lanthanide 11.1

      The woman writing that claims to be in possession of the source code. If so, she should release it.

      Since she has failed to do so, I can’t take her claims seriously.

      • One Two 11.1.1

        The default assumption SHOULD be that it IS happening with onus on the developers/controllers/auditors of the electronic vote systems to prove that it is impossible

        Far as I can tell there is years worth of experts breaking into and manipulating these systems, and little evidence from the companies or federal agencies to prove its not

  7. Repateet 12

    The Minister of Education in the House today used the expression “best and brightest” when talking about those she wants to get into teaching.

    The Minister of Education in the House today in talking about choices teachers made in doing what they do in schools said they (teachers) were professionals. The implication was that they would know best what needed to be done, and when and how..

    The “best and brightest” have initiative and intelligence. She actually wants brainless cretins who will do the cretinous things she comes up with without question. Doing that automatically means they are not the “best and brightest.”

    If they were professionals she would give them some credit, real credit, and trust, instead of another feigned fit of “teachers I love you, look NZ community, I love teachers and have faith in them.”

    The Minister of Education shows the characteristics of a lying weasel.

    • Reddelusion 12.1

      Since when did teachers not have their say or their voice heard, this does not mean you need to agree with their every utterance

      • ianmac 12.1.1

        ACT David Seymour position is that teachers are only concerned for themselves and not the children. Weird. My experience is that teachers are very non- militant. And have to be pretty riled to act. So to hold stop work meetings is a danger sign.

      • Repateet 12.1.2

        I agree.
        The thing is Hekia Parata can determine that 3+4= 8, ask the teachers what 3+4 is, they say 7, she says they’re wrong but she says consulted them.

        Then people say (like you), “They had their say, she listened to them, but she didn’t agree with their utterance, so she;s carrying on.”

        Teachers have their their say but their voices are only heard to a very small point after the “real stuff” is heard. The important voices are those that pollsters report on. Her boss’ voice is important. The important voices to him are those of people like David Farrar. What teachers say about teaching and learning and education is pretty irrelevant.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1.3

        Agree? You have difficulty understanding them.

    • Lanthanide 12.2

      if she wants the best and brightest, she has to pay them what they’re worth, and treat them like the rockstars they are.

      Being a teacher should be limited to the cream of the crop of students; all too often people go into teaching because there’s nothing else they can productively do.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 12.2.1

        What’s the point of hiring the cream of the crop to implement notional standards and high-stakes testing?

      • Gangnam Style 12.2.2

        “all too often people go into teaching because there’s nothing else they can productively do.” – utter bullshit, there are a million other easier ways to earn a living than to teach children, it really is a calling not something you can phone in.

      • Repateet 12.2.3

        Treating them like the rockstars they are shouldn’t just be a demand of Parata and her political cobbers. It should apply to posters on here and other places who treat teachers with utter contempt, have no respect for them their experience or their willingness to do the crappy job that they have no interest in taking on*. A job which is vital to society.

        *Not interested in taking it on but they want to do it from the sidelines with their remote controls beamed at the unfortunate ones who do take it up.

  8. Sabine 13

    nothing to see here, really,

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/sheep/70904289/government-withholds-letter-from-saudi-sheikh

    “The Government is refusing to make public a letter to Prime Minister John Key from the Saudi sheikh at the centre of a controversial farm deal.

    The missive is mentioned in a May 2010 dispatch from diplomats in Riyadh. It was among hundreds of pages of official documents released by Foreign Minister Murray McCully earlier this week.

    Fairfax Media asked Key’s office to release a copy of the letter. But a spokesman for McCully said it was withheld, citing various provisions of the Official Information Act.

    These were “to avoid prejudicing the international relations of the New Zealand Government…to protect individuals’ privacy…[and] to protect the supply of confidential information by a third party.”

    The Government has been under pressure for months to explain why it spent more than $11 million setting up a farm in the Saudi Arabian desert in a deal with Hamood Al Ali Al Khalaf.”

  9. Kevin 14

    With the hopelessly out-of-date electronic vote capturing equipment used in the USA for elections, this mans services will come in handy for the biggest wallet.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-how-to-hack-an-election/

  10. Rodel 15

    John Noonan, a former nuclear launch officer and adviser to former GOP candidate Jeb Bush, painted a frightening picture of what might to happen if Trump were handed the nuclear codes; the president alone has final say over a nuclear launch.

    “These duties are simply too grave to entrust to a man who has exhibited sociopathic and chronically narcissistic behavior throughout his checkered career,” he wrote in a Los Angeles Times op-ed published Tuesday.

    When a former nuclear launch officer (whatever that is) describes someone using words like, ‘sociopathic’ & ‘chronically narcissistic’, words straight out of DSM-5 you know he’s inferring that the person is mentally ill.

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