Open mike 11/10/2020

82 comments on “Open mike 11/10/2020 ”

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1. millsy 1

   11 October 2020 at 7:47 am

   This time next week, we will see if the polls are right, and if we have the first majority by left wing parties since Labour/Alliance/Green back in 1999.
2. Robert Guyton 2

   11 October 2020 at 8:14 am

   I sincerely hope this is the case.
3. Robert Guyton 3

   11 October 2020 at 8:21 am

   Alison Mau's Stuff article on the election is good.

   "https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300128817/the-important-election-details-you-might-have-missed-in-the-last-week"
   • Peter 3.1

     11 October 2020 at 9:46 am

     What stands out in Mau's piece is the stuff about Seymour.

     The getting rid of interest free student loans is just part of their philosophical vi=ew of education

     Education, learning, schooling is a commodity, a personal thing not a community goal.

     Everyone runs around do their own thing and I guess being rid of rules and restriction will allow 'freedom' of operation.

     When he is PM or Deputy after the 2023 election will part of the coalition deal be dependent on Act getting its way with education?
     • AB 3.1.1

       11 October 2020 at 10:17 am

       ACT's 8% polling tells us that as many as one fifth of the people normally hidden away inside National's 40%-plus nationwide support are nutters, keen to return us to circa 1987 and an orgy of lawless opportunism for the benefit of the wealthy.
       • Muttonbird 3.1.1.1

         11 October 2020 at 10:39 am

         Yep. ACT under Seymour are a 0.64% party in normal times. These aren't normal times.

         The most horrifying policy (and there are a few) is the roll back of gun laws. Does he not get that the reason the Australian white supremacist chose NZ was because our gun laws were slack?
         • greywarshark 3.1.1.1.1

           11 October 2020 at 11:04 am

           Circa 1987 going on 1887 – we are instituting systems and attitudes that our grandies, our ancestors, sailed away from Britain hoping to get away from. We are stuck in that mud in our gumboots, fast losing the higher learning, the intellectual thought once aimed for, and getting into limited farming mindset with accompanying absentee landowner/lords and housing speculator/lords and rentiers.

           We need to step out of our gumboots, abandon them, and squish our way painfully to a grassy knoll somewhere where we can get some prominence, view our sorry state, and have a pow-wow about fixing on a new path and the new ways we have to adopt.
           • Descendant Of Smith 3.1.1.1.1.1

             11 October 2020 at 1:56 pm

             Capitalism was highly rampant in New Zealand in the 1800's. Hardly getting away from it by coming here. Fundamentally New Zealand was being exploited not being built into some sort of benevolent utopia.
       • Anne 3.1.1.2

         11 October 2020 at 11:48 am

         I predict ACT's share of the overall vote will fall short of 8%. In fact it could drop down to 5% or slightly less. I base that on some 2 to 3% are perennial National voters who will switch back to National at the last minute. They will feel obliged to, especially if it continues to look like National is going to bomb-out big time and it likely will.

         I sincerely hope they do because that disparate bunch of ultra-right wing candidates Seymour brings with him are dangerous.
         • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 3.1.1.2.1

           11 October 2020 at 4:54 pm

           Oh, don't predict that, Anne. One of the things I'm really looking forward to (apart from a Labour/Greens coalition) is Seymour desperately trying to control his disparate bunch!

           I predict some spectacular implosions in the coming term!
           Entertainment better than the movies!
           • Anne 3.1.1.2.1.1

             11 October 2020 at 5:18 pm

             So very true. Never thought of that. There's a good chance they might start brandishing ak24s around the place.

             Nah… its alright officer, I was only kidding. 😮
       • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.3

         11 October 2020 at 12:32 pm

         National and ACT are keen to return us to the abuses of the East India Company.
     • Morrissey 3.1.2

       11 October 2020 at 10:26 am

       When he is PM or Deputy after the 2023 election…

       Are you joking?
       • Uncle Scrim 3.1.2.1

         11 October 2020 at 1:22 pm

         Kind of hard to see how this would happen. If National get their shit together, find a popular leader and get back into the mid-40% range by 2023, I don't see Act staying at 7-8%, and certainly not getting even higher. National will want those voters back for themselves.
   • Patricia Bremner 3.2

     11 October 2020 at 2:26 pm

     Seems Seymour is more about undoing than doing…. right negative stuff.
4. Pat 4

   11 October 2020 at 9:30 am

   Obituary

   https://www.interest.co.nz/news/107427/more-40-years-after-he-arrived-parliament-winston-peters-facing-barring-miracle-end-line
   • Andre 4.1

     11 October 2020 at 9:38 am

     Obituary? Fuck no, way too soon for that.

     I'm not considering any obituaries until he's filled with silver bullets and wooden stakes in his crypt, completely encased in garlic, then a Chernobyl-grade concrete casing and sarcophagus structure around the lot.

     nb: I'm not suggesting anyone attempt to do any of this, I'm just outlining what would be needed for me to feel reassured he's not gonna rise again to haunt us.
     • Pat 4.1.1

       11 October 2020 at 9:40 am

       lol..fear not,Winston is a mere mortal.
       • Andre 4.1.1.1

         11 October 2020 at 9:44 am

         Can you prove that?
         • Pat 4.1.1.1.1

           11 October 2020 at 10:12 am

           currently not
         • WeTheBleeple 4.1.1.1.2

           11 October 2020 at 10:28 am

           While your post tickled my funny bone I have proof you are wrong. Vampires cannot be seen in The Mirror

           "Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has stepped in as acting prime minister and will run the country for the next six weeks while Ardern takes maternity leave, according to an agreement they published earlier."

           You can hover over the link, like a spectre, to see where it leads.
           • greywarshark 4.1.1.1.2.1

             11 October 2020 at 11:09 am

             Hello WtB – Lol Good to see your thoughts.
     • Matiri 4.1.2

       11 October 2020 at 11:04 am

       Maybe Winston has already been approached for What We Do in the Shadows 2?
       • joe90 4.1.2.1

         11 October 2020 at 11:07 am

         He's a shoe-in for seat on the Vampiric Council.
     • Tricledrown 4.1.3

       11 October 2020 at 11:45 am

       Chernobyl grade concrete that leaks more than Nationals caucus
   • millsy 4.2

     11 October 2020 at 10:28 am

     I think it would be more accurate to say that this will be his last election campaign.

     Whatever happens this time next week, I doubt that he would have it in him to have another go in 2023.
     • Pat 4.2.1

       11 October 2020 at 10:32 am

       the obituary was for his political life
       • Gabby 4.2.1.1

         11 October 2020 at 11:38 am

         He could take over the NZ1st Trust and rename it the Winston Peters Foundation (We Say Nuh-Uh To Whatever Helen's Foundation Says)
   • Bearded Git 4.3

     11 October 2020 at 11:37 am

     Winston (at 78 approximately?) will be the most sought after commentator on TV for the 2023 election. He will love it because he will be able to settle old scores with impunity.
     • Incognito 4.3.1

       11 October 2020 at 2:03 pm

       He could write a column together with Peter Dunne called Good Hair & Common Sense.
       • Pat 4.3.1.1

         11 October 2020 at 7:35 pm

         or Bow Ties and Pinstripes
     • Peter 4.3.2

       11 October 2020 at 9:31 pm

       Settle old scores with impunity? He's got old scores with a helluva lot of people but I didn't realise impunity was one!
       • Bearded Git 4.3.2.1

         12 October 2020 at 6:07 am

         
5. Cinny 5

   11 October 2020 at 10:39 am

   Am on the unpublished roll and this election was the first time I was mailed an 'easy vote card', yay 🙂 Thanks electoral commission, that was less of a mission than last time.
   • Incognito 5.1

     11 October 2020 at 11:47 am

     Well done! You’re now almost one of us 😉

     You can vote without an ‘easy vote card’.
6. greywarshark 6

   11 October 2020 at 11:29 am

   edit
   Some questions for our minds if they are hazy about joining the ones who are trying, (to do better), that Nick Drake thought up.

   (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfYnXGV8PfM&list=PLGBNU27l6atWt7gZYiln3taPdwcdky_FR&index=1

   Hazey Jane I

   Do you curse where you come from?
   Do you swear in the night?
   Will it mean much to you
   If I treat you right?
   Do you like what you’re doing?
   Would you do it some more?
   Or will you stop once and wonder
   What you’re doing it for?
   Hey slow, Jane, make sense
   Slow, slow, Jane, cross the fence

   Do you feel like a remnant
   Of something that’s past?
   Do you find things are moving
   Just a little too fast?
   Do you hope to find new ways
   Of quenching your thirst?
   Do you hope to find new ways of doing
   Better than your worst?
   Hey slow, Jane, let me prove
   Slow, slow, Jane, we’re on the move

   Do it for you
   Sure that you would do the same for me one day
   So try to be true
   Even if it’s only in your hazey way

   Can you tell if you’re moving
   With no mirror to see?
   If you’re just riding a new man
   Looks a little like me?
   Is it all so confusing?
   Is it hard to believe?
   When the winter is coming can you
   Sign up and leave
   Hey slow, Jane, clear your eye
   Slow, slow, Jane, fly on by

   On the Sunday after the election we might be listening and thinking as in Hazey Jane II of Nick Drake's.

   (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCaDp1gb6D4&list=RDC7QLtMHOiqw&index=7

   Hazey Jane II

   And what will happen in the morning when the world it gets so crowded that you can’t look out the
   window in the morning?

   And what will happen in the evening in the forest with the weasel with the teeth that bite so sharp when you’re not looking in the evening?

   And all the friends that you once knew are left behind they kept you safe and so secure amongst the books and all the records of your lifetime?

   What will happen
   In the morning
   When the world it gets so crowded that you can’t look out the window in the morning

   Hey, take a little while to grow your brothers hair
   And now, take a little while to make your sister fair
   And now that the family is part of a chain
   Take off your eyeshade start over again

   Now take a little while to find your way in here
   Now take a little while to make your story clear
   Now that you’re lifting
   Your feet from the ground
   Weigh up your anchor
   And never look ‘round

   Let’s sing a song
   For Hazey Jane
   She’s back again in my mind

   If songs were lines
   In a conversation

   The situation would be fine

   http://www.nickdrake.com/hazey_jane_II_lyrics.html
7. Gabby 7

   11 October 2020 at 11:42 am

   Codger may be giving Drake's 'Parasite' a listen.
8. Patricia Bremner 8

   11 October 2020 at 1:52 pm

   On Winston, Thanks for showing the convoluted use of Tax Havens by some.

   Thanks for the Gold Card.

   Thanks for choosing Jacinda over Bill.

   If this is the end of your political career, I am sure you will be like Michael Cullen, serving to the end.
   • millsy 8.1

     11 October 2020 at 2:43 pm

     If he goes, then the last link that Parliament has with the pre-Rogernomics era goes.

     This is being overlooked amid the schadenfrude.
   • Anne 8.2

     11 October 2020 at 5:41 pm

     Winston, Thanks for showing the convoluted use of Tax Havens by some.

     That was Peters’ biggest contribution to NZ society imo. He fronted the Winebox saga at a time when no-one else had the guts to stick their heads above the parapet. Sure, they did their best to cut his head off for the next 10 years (Michelle Boag was prominent in that effort) but they never succeeded. All the principle culprits were forced to flee NZ and go hide in Switzerland.

     None of them were prosecuted even though the evidence proved beyond reasonable doubt they were guilty as sin. An excellent example of how there are strict rules for us ordinary folk and none for the rich and powerful – and their lackeys.
     • RosieLee 8.2.1

       11 October 2020 at 6:34 pm

       And Winston has been just as involved in the financial chicanery as all the other politicians. He is donkey deep in it.
       • Drowsy M. Kram 8.2.1.1

         11 October 2020 at 7:00 pm

         Yes yes – they're all a bad as each other. But Winston attempted (among other things) to shed a little light on how 'pillars of the big business community' avoided and evaded their tax obligations, and it's where Key tried to take NZ again – thank-you Winston.

         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winebox_Inquiry#Aftermath
       • Patricia Bremner 8.2.1.2

         11 October 2020 at 10:10 pm

         That has yet to be proven in a court of law….You are making sweeping generalisations. The Serious Fraud Squad said no pollies.. but don't let that stop the smears.
         • Anne 8.2.1.2.1

           11 October 2020 at 10:18 pm

           
         • Patricia Bremner 8.2.1.2.2

           11 October 2020 at 10:32 pm

           RosieLee, sorry forgot to add your name. Thanks Anne.
9. Muttonbird 9

   11 October 2020 at 2:06 pm

   What happens if huge numbers of Nats vote strategically: party vote ACT, electorate vote National?

   Could an overhang result in, say, 41 National electorate seats (same as now) and 20 ACT seats?
   • Barfly 9.1

     11 October 2020 at 2:14 pm

     yeah …nah…. not happening.

     It would be much easier to herd thousands of cats
     • Muttonbird 9.1.1

       11 October 2020 at 2:22 pm

       Probably not but let's say NAT+ACT gets 44% total. In the scenario described above ACT gets 17% (20 seats) and NAT 27% but 41 electorate seats, a 9 seat overhang.

       It all gets a bit complicated with the redistributed vote but the right seems so crazy and angry at the moment (more than usual) they might just vote ACT in those numbers.
       • Barfly 9.1.1.1

         11 October 2020 at 2:28 pm

         Guess I better start sharpening the pitchfork then
         • Anne 9.1.1.1.1

           11 October 2020 at 5:47 pm

           I've got an ancient garden rake which goes back to the days when they made the things of iron. Would that be lethal enough?
           • Grafton Gully 9.1.1.1.1.1

             11 October 2020 at 5:53 pm

             Probably not in my hands.
         • Patricia Bremner 9.1.1.1.2

           11 October 2020 at 10:35 pm

           I'll bring the barrow.
       • Uncle Scrim 9.1.1.2

         11 October 2020 at 3:26 pm

         But if there's a 9-seat overhang – ie a 129-member Parliament? – then 61 MPs isn't a majority: Labour and Greens would presumably have 68 MPs? (or in fact in that case ACT’s 17% would earn 22 seats (with Nats’ 41, totalling 63), but Lab-Greens would still have 66?).

         But yes this isn’t going to happen.
10. Dennis Frank 10

    11 October 2020 at 3:00 pm

    New Zealand actor Sam Neill has come out on social media saying New Zealand should 'finally legalise marijuana'.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/election-2020-cannabis-referendum-sam-neill-urges-kiwis-to-vote-yes/JOAUF5223CKPFCTBUBCOP7VG5Q/
    • millsy 10.1

      11 October 2020 at 3:46 pm

      "No" voters never seem to directly address the question WHY they think someone should be arrested for using cannabis, which seems to be the key issue here.
      • Chris T 10.1.1

        11 October 2020 at 4:40 pm

        Not that I care if it goes through, I am pushing it to think people still get arrested for smoking a joint these days, unless it is an excuse to get them in for other shit they have listed against their name.
11. Incognito 11

    11 October 2020 at 5:48 pm

    It’s unclear what went wrong.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300129857/election-2020-national-takes-down-election-ad-after-getting-numbers-wrong

    😀
    • mac1 11.1

      11 October 2020 at 6:03 pm

      How many times now has National got the numbers wrong?

      A bit like rugby- they keep dropping the ball, in their own half…….
      • Incognito 11.1.1

        11 October 2020 at 6:26 pm

        I’ve lost count but the 2020-list must be getting as long as BLiP’s world-famous list of John Key and National’s lies. And John was the Leader for nine long years; I can’t see Judith lasting even nine months.
12. greywarshark 12

    11 October 2020 at 5:48 pm

    Something else for we intelligent adults to consider! Isn't it time we paused, and had a cup of tea and thought about how to be kind to the planet and each other? I think we have toset our wants a notch lower and our willingness to live simpler higher and give more to each other enabling resilience of us and our world?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018767832/natural-fibres-more-prevalent-in-ocean-than-plastic-study
13. greywarshark 13

    11 October 2020 at 5:56 pm

    Interesting – great historic rugby pictures have ended up in USA? hands. That's capitalism for you, get their hands on anything that is regarded as important, which raises the price, and sell it on the international collectors market. We can have our own taonga back if we can pay the price.

    But we don't know what is important to us and make sure we treasure it till we see it in foreigners' hands. Babies we are.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/428057/online-auction-sells-rare-new-zealand-rugby-pictures
14. mac1 14

    11 October 2020 at 6:16 pm

    The rugby test has a moral for politicians in the final week before an election. The try is not scored until the ball has been placed with downwards pressure on the ground on or over the try line. It needs more then fancy haircuts, aka slogans, personalities aka political reputations, and distractions like arguing with the ref aka media-watching.

    It's not just a game. It's us and our lives.
15. Chris T 15

    11 October 2020 at 6:26 pm

    Far out.

    Winston is looking a bit screwed on the news on his electioneering.

    Makes Collins look good.
    • Andre 15.1

      11 October 2020 at 6:34 pm

      Linkity-linky?
      • Chris T 15.1.1

        11 October 2020 at 6:50 pm

        It was on 3 news

        They haven't posted it yet given the current bias, but the bloke was walking round seeing tumble weeds.

        Apparently his party gathering had about 20 supporters
        • Andre 15.1.1.1

          11 October 2020 at 6:54 pm

          Ah.

          I had gone looking for info on it, and only found this tidbit of the comedy duo Billy Te Kookiha and the Wookie getting sprung for a mobile billboard getting too close to a polling booth.

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/electoral-commission-to-remind-advance-party-of-campaigning-rules/A5R2ZPZTYEP6LR24EROTNCD5RE/
16. Grafton Gully 16

    11 October 2020 at 6:39 pm

    I want to stop the wealth tax so will vote labour to help keep the greens out of the next government. Reminds me of Clark's aversion to them. Good foresight.
    • Drowsy M. Kram 16.1

      11 October 2020 at 7:10 pm

      Wealth tax wouldn't affect me directly. Party-voted Green yesterday; hope they make it!
17. bwaghorn 17

    11 October 2020 at 7:45 pm

    Voted today.

    Greens party vote ,

    Labour electorate ( not that that matters out here in blue country)

    Yes and yes in the referendum s.

    I really wanted to vote top but james the commenter scared me to the greens , we need more labour , they ain't perfect but the nacts are fucking scary .
    • Andre 17.1

      11 October 2020 at 7:52 pm

      That's an awfully brave move in your area, wags, where the men are men and the sheep are afraid.
      • bwaghorn 17.1.1

        11 October 2020 at 9:32 pm

        I probably wont sing it from the roof tops
        • Patricia Bremner 17.1.1.1

          11 October 2020 at 10:41 pm

          Good choice.
18. Muttonbird 18

    11 October 2020 at 8:02 pm

    The Prime Minister today said she wants there to be no social housing waiting list by 2030.

    A laudable goal.

    But I'd like to counter that by saying I'd like for there to be no need for social housing at all by 2050.

    That is, a socio-economic system working as it should where everyone is able to live and house themselves comfortably without struggle.
    • Andre 18.1

      11 October 2020 at 8:30 pm

      How would it work with no social housing at all? Everyone has to be either a rent-slave to a private landlord or a mortgage-slave to a bank until they finally become one of the exalted few that are mortgage-free?

      What happens with those few that really don't seem to be able to fit themselves into the regular societal housing paradigm, such as swordfish's parents' neighbour? Contract out housing them to Serco?
      • KJT 18.1.1

        11 October 2020 at 9:46 pm

        Isn't that happening already?
    • greywarshark 18.2

      11 October 2020 at 8:31 pm

      Yes. A simple solution when looked at objectively. We don't mind going Back to the Future with sensible goals which include the citizenry having a say and helping the build.
    • Chris T 18.3

      11 October 2020 at 9:45 pm

      Given Kiwibuild, one person's laudable is another's laughable.
      • Patricia Bremner 18.3.1

        11 October 2020 at 10:43 pm

        Those living in one are smiling.
19. Andre 19

    11 October 2020 at 8:08 pm

    Soz, everybody.

    We almost made it through a whole day without any fresh nutso from fake-Bronzo von Flaghumper, and now I'm going to spoil it. But it's worth it, trust me.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-superman-walter-reed-discharge-plot_n_5f8248c4c5b6e5c31fff5770
    • greywarshark 19.1

      11 October 2020 at 8:33 pm

      We could have a day without Trump or the USA even being mentioned now and then. When in NZ do as the Kiwis do, is a slogan for the odd day.
      • Ed 19.1.1

        12 October 2020 at 6:44 am

        There does appear to be a group on this site obsessed with the USA.
    • hanswurst 19.2

      12 October 2020 at 12:21 am

      Seeing as the gag in itself isn't actually so bad, as far as such gags go, and Trump could certainly count on camera crews and editing to make up for the fact that he would probably look more than a bit hapless doing it in real life, I can only imagine that he decided against it because he is currently either too weak or too uncoordinated to rip a shirt off reliably.

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