Open mike 11/10/2020
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6:00 am, October 11th, 2020 - 82 comments
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This time next week, we will see if the polls are right, and if we have the first majority by left wing parties since Labour/Alliance/Green back in 1999.
I sincerely hope this is the case.
Alison Mau's Stuff article on the election is good.
"https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300128817/the-important-election-details-you-might-have-missed-in-the-last-week"
What stands out in Mau's piece is the stuff about Seymour.
The getting rid of interest free student loans is just part of their philosophical vi=ew of education
Education, learning, schooling is a commodity, a personal thing not a community goal.
Everyone runs around do their own thing and I guess being rid of rules and restriction will allow 'freedom' of operation.
When he is PM or Deputy after the 2023 election will part of the coalition deal be dependent on Act getting its way with education?
ACT's 8% polling tells us that as many as one fifth of the people normally hidden away inside National's 40%-plus nationwide support are nutters, keen to return us to circa 1987 and an orgy of lawless opportunism for the benefit of the wealthy.
Yep. ACT under Seymour are a 0.64% party in normal times. These aren't normal times.
The most horrifying policy (and there are a few) is the roll back of gun laws. Does he not get that the reason the Australian white supremacist chose NZ was because our gun laws were slack?
Circa 1987 going on 1887 – we are instituting systems and attitudes that our grandies, our ancestors, sailed away from Britain hoping to get away from. We are stuck in that mud in our gumboots, fast losing the higher learning, the intellectual thought once aimed for, and getting into limited farming mindset with accompanying absentee landowner/lords and housing speculator/lords and rentiers.
We need to step out of our gumboots, abandon them, and squish our way painfully to a grassy knoll somewhere where we can get some prominence, view our sorry state, and have a pow-wow about fixing on a new path and the new ways we have to adopt.
Capitalism was highly rampant in New Zealand in the 1800's. Hardly getting away from it by coming here. Fundamentally New Zealand was being exploited not being built into some sort of benevolent utopia.
I predict ACT's share of the overall vote will fall short of 8%. In fact it could drop down to 5% or slightly less. I base that on some 2 to 3% are perennial National voters who will switch back to National at the last minute. They will feel obliged to, especially if it continues to look like National is going to bomb-out big time and it likely will.
I sincerely hope they do because that disparate bunch of ultra-right wing candidates Seymour brings with him are dangerous.
Oh, don't predict that, Anne. One of the things I'm really looking forward to (apart from a Labour/Greens coalition) is Seymour desperately trying to control his disparate bunch!
I predict some spectacular implosions in the coming term!
Entertainment better than the movies!
So very true. Never thought of that. There's a good chance they might start brandishing ak24s around the place.
Nah… its alright officer, I was only kidding. 😮
National and ACT are keen to return us to the abuses of the East India Company.
When he is PM or Deputy after the 2023 election…
Are you joking?
Kind of hard to see how this would happen. If National get their shit together, find a popular leader and get back into the mid-40% range by 2023, I don't see Act staying at 7-8%, and certainly not getting even higher. National will want those voters back for themselves.
Seems Seymour is more about undoing than doing…. right negative stuff.
Obituary
https://www.interest.co.nz/news/107427/more-40-years-after-he-arrived-parliament-winston-peters-facing-barring-miracle-end-line
Obituary? Fuck no, way too soon for that.
I'm not considering any obituaries until he's filled with silver bullets and wooden stakes in his crypt, completely encased in garlic, then a Chernobyl-grade concrete casing and sarcophagus structure around the lot.
nb: I'm not suggesting anyone attempt to do any of this, I'm just outlining what would be needed for me to feel reassured he's not gonna rise again to haunt us.
lol..fear not,Winston is a mere mortal.
Can you prove that?
currently not
While your post tickled my funny bone I have proof you are wrong. Vampires cannot be seen in The Mirror
"Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has stepped in as acting prime minister and will run the country for the next six weeks while Ardern takes maternity leave, according to an agreement they published earlier."
You can hover over the link, like a spectre, to see where it leads.
Hello WtB – Lol Good to see your thoughts.
Maybe Winston has already been approached for What We Do in the Shadows 2?
He's a shoe-in for seat on the Vampiric Council.
Chernobyl grade concrete that leaks more than Nationals caucus
I think it would be more accurate to say that this will be his last election campaign.
Whatever happens this time next week, I doubt that he would have it in him to have another go in 2023.
the obituary was for his political life
He could take over the NZ1st Trust and rename it the Winston Peters Foundation (We Say Nuh-Uh To Whatever Helen's Foundation Says)
Winston (at 78 approximately?) will be the most sought after commentator on TV for the 2023 election. He will love it because he will be able to settle old scores with impunity.
He could write a column together with Peter Dunne called Good Hair & Common Sense.
or Bow Ties and Pinstripes
Settle old scores with impunity? He's got old scores with a helluva lot of people but I didn't realise impunity was one!
Am on the unpublished roll and this election was the first time I was mailed an 'easy vote card', yay 🙂 Thanks electoral commission, that was less of a mission than last time.
Well done! You’re now almost one of us 😉
You can vote without an ‘easy vote card’.
edit
Some questions for our minds if they are hazy about joining the ones who are trying, (to do better), that Nick Drake thought up.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfYnXGV8PfM&list=PLGBNU27l6atWt7gZYiln3taPdwcdky_FR&index=1
Hazey Jane I
Do you curse where you come from?
Do you swear in the night?
Will it mean much to you
If I treat you right?
Do you like what you’re doing?
Would you do it some more?
Or will you stop once and wonder
What you’re doing it for?
Hey slow, Jane, make sense
Slow, slow, Jane, cross the fence
Do you feel like a remnant
Of something that’s past?
Do you find things are moving
Just a little too fast?
Do you hope to find new ways
Of quenching your thirst?
Do you hope to find new ways of doing
Better than your worst?
Hey slow, Jane, let me prove
Slow, slow, Jane, we’re on the move
Do it for you
Sure that you would do the same for me one day
So try to be true
Even if it’s only in your hazey way
Can you tell if you’re moving
With no mirror to see?
If you’re just riding a new man
Looks a little like me?
Is it all so confusing?
Is it hard to believe?
When the winter is coming can you
Sign up and leave
Hey slow, Jane, clear your eye
Slow, slow, Jane, fly on by
On the Sunday after the election we might be listening and thinking as in Hazey Jane II of Nick Drake's.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCaDp1gb6D4&list=RDC7QLtMHOiqw&index=7
Hazey Jane II
And what will happen in the morning when the world it gets so crowded that you can’t look out the
window in the morning?
And what will happen in the evening in the forest with the weasel with the teeth that bite so sharp when you’re not looking in the evening?
And all the friends that you once knew are left behind they kept you safe and so secure amongst the books and all the records of your lifetime?
What will happen
In the morning
When the world it gets so crowded that you can’t look out the window in the morning
Hey, take a little while to grow your brothers hair
And now, take a little while to make your sister fair
And now that the family is part of a chain
Take off your eyeshade start over again
Now take a little while to find your way in here
Now take a little while to make your story clear
Now that you’re lifting
Your feet from the ground
Weigh up your anchor
And never look ‘round
Let’s sing a song
For Hazey Jane
She’s back again in my mind
If songs were lines
In a conversation
The situation would be fine
http://www.nickdrake.com/hazey_jane_II_lyrics.html
Codger may be giving Drake's 'Parasite' a listen.
On Winston, Thanks for showing the convoluted use of Tax Havens by some.
Thanks for the Gold Card.
Thanks for choosing Jacinda over Bill.
If this is the end of your political career, I am sure you will be like Michael Cullen, serving to the end.
If he goes, then the last link that Parliament has with the pre-Rogernomics era goes.
This is being overlooked amid the schadenfrude.
That was Peters’ biggest contribution to NZ society imo. He fronted the Winebox saga at a time when no-one else had the guts to stick their heads above the parapet. Sure, they did their best to cut his head off for the next 10 years (Michelle Boag was prominent in that effort) but they never succeeded. All the principle culprits were forced to flee NZ and go hide in Switzerland.
None of them were prosecuted even though the evidence proved beyond reasonable doubt they were guilty as sin. An excellent example of how there are strict rules for us ordinary folk and none for the rich and powerful – and their lackeys.
And Winston has been just as involved in the financial chicanery as all the other politicians. He is donkey deep in it.
Yes yes – they're all a bad as each other. But Winston attempted (among other things) to shed a little light on how 'pillars of the big business community' avoided and evaded their tax obligations, and it's where Key tried to take NZ again – thank-you Winston.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winebox_Inquiry#Aftermath
That has yet to be proven in a court of law….You are making sweeping generalisations. The Serious Fraud Squad said no pollies.. but don't let that stop the smears.
RosieLee, sorry forgot to add your name. Thanks Anne.
What happens if huge numbers of Nats vote strategically: party vote ACT, electorate vote National?
Could an overhang result in, say, 41 National electorate seats (same as now) and 20 ACT seats?
yeah …nah…. not happening.
It would be much easier to herd thousands of cats
Probably not but let's say NAT+ACT gets 44% total. In the scenario described above ACT gets 17% (20 seats) and NAT 27% but 41 electorate seats, a 9 seat overhang.
It all gets a bit complicated with the redistributed vote but the right seems so crazy and angry at the moment (more than usual) they might just vote ACT in those numbers.
Guess I better start sharpening the pitchfork then
I've got an ancient garden rake which goes back to the days when they made the things of iron. Would that be lethal enough?
Probably not in my hands.
I'll bring the barrow.
But if there's a 9-seat overhang – ie a 129-member Parliament? – then 61 MPs isn't a majority: Labour and Greens would presumably have 68 MPs? (or in fact in that case ACT’s 17% would earn 22 seats (with Nats’ 41, totalling 63), but Lab-Greens would still have 66?).
But yes this isn’t going to happen.
"No" voters never seem to directly address the question WHY they think someone should be arrested for using cannabis, which seems to be the key issue here.
Not that I care if it goes through, I am pushing it to think people still get arrested for smoking a joint these days, unless it is an excuse to get them in for other shit they have listed against their name.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300129857/election-2020-national-takes-down-election-ad-after-getting-numbers-wrong
😀
How many times now has National got the numbers wrong?
A bit like rugby- they keep dropping the ball, in their own half…….
I’ve lost count but the 2020-list must be getting as long as BLiP’s world-famous list of John Key and National’s lies. And John was the Leader for nine long years; I can’t see Judith lasting even nine months.
Something else for we intelligent adults to consider! Isn't it time we paused, and had a cup of tea and thought about how to be kind to the planet and each other? I think we have toset our wants a notch lower and our willingness to live simpler higher and give more to each other enabling resilience of us and our world?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018767832/natural-fibres-more-prevalent-in-ocean-than-plastic-study
Interesting – great historic rugby pictures have ended up in USA? hands. That's capitalism for you, get their hands on anything that is regarded as important, which raises the price, and sell it on the international collectors market. We can have our own taonga back if we can pay the price.
But we don't know what is important to us and make sure we treasure it till we see it in foreigners' hands. Babies we are.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/428057/online-auction-sells-rare-new-zealand-rugby-pictures
The rugby test has a moral for politicians in the final week before an election. The try is not scored until the ball has been placed with downwards pressure on the ground on or over the try line. It needs more then fancy haircuts, aka slogans, personalities aka political reputations, and distractions like arguing with the ref aka media-watching.
It's not just a game. It's us and our lives.
Far out.
Winston is looking a bit screwed on the news on his electioneering.
Makes Collins look good.
Linkity-linky?
It was on 3 news
They haven't posted it yet given the current bias, but the bloke was walking round seeing tumble weeds.
Apparently his party gathering had about 20 supporters
Ah.
I had gone looking for info on it, and only found this tidbit of the comedy duo Billy Te Kookiha and the Wookie getting sprung for a mobile billboard getting too close to a polling booth.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/electoral-commission-to-remind-advance-party-of-campaigning-rules/A5R2ZPZTYEP6LR24EROTNCD5RE/
I want to stop the wealth tax so will vote labour to help keep the greens out of the next government. Reminds me of Clark's aversion to them. Good foresight.
Wealth tax wouldn't affect me directly. Party-voted Green yesterday; hope they make it!
Voted today.
Greens party vote ,
Labour electorate ( not that that matters out here in blue country)
Yes and yes in the referendum s.
I really wanted to vote top but james the commenter scared me to the greens , we need more labour , they ain't perfect but the nacts are fucking scary .
That's an awfully brave move in your area, wags, where the men are men and the sheep are afraid.
I probably wont sing it from the roof tops
Good choice.
The Prime Minister today said she wants there to be no social housing waiting list by 2030.
A laudable goal.
But I'd like to counter that by saying I'd like for there to be no need for social housing at all by 2050.
That is, a socio-economic system working as it should where everyone is able to live and house themselves comfortably without struggle.
How would it work with no social housing at all? Everyone has to be either a rent-slave to a private landlord or a mortgage-slave to a bank until they finally become one of the exalted few that are mortgage-free?
What happens with those few that really don't seem to be able to fit themselves into the regular societal housing paradigm, such as swordfish's parents' neighbour? Contract out housing them to Serco?
Isn't that happening already?
Yes. A simple solution when looked at objectively. We don't mind going Back to the Future with sensible goals which include the citizenry having a say and helping the build.
Given Kiwibuild, one person's laudable is another's laughable.
Those living in one are smiling.
Soz, everybody.
We almost made it through a whole day without any fresh nutso from fake-Bronzo von Flaghumper, and now I'm going to spoil it. But it's worth it, trust me.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-superman-walter-reed-discharge-plot_n_5f8248c4c5b6e5c31fff5770
We could have a day without Trump or the USA even being mentioned now and then. When in NZ do as the Kiwis do, is a slogan for the odd day.
There does appear to be a group on this site obsessed with the USA.
Seeing as the gag in itself isn't actually so bad, as far as such gags go, and Trump could certainly count on camera crews and editing to make up for the fact that he would probably look more than a bit hapless doing it in real life, I can only imagine that he decided against it because he is currently either too weak or too uncoordinated to rip a shirt off reliably.