Open mike 11/06/2015

167 comments on “Open mike 11/06/2015 ”

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1. Paul 1

   11 June 2015 at 6:30 am

   Josie Pagani stirring up trouble for the progressive side of politics as ever.
   Why doesn’t she just go and join Peter Dunne’s gang or be really honest and ask for membership of the National Party?
   Would love to know who’s funding her?
   Doesn’t her husband work for New Zealand Oil and Gas?

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11463086
   • tc 1.1

     11 June 2015 at 7:14 am

     Pagani is the classic ‘rent a rant’ that fits very nicely into the divisive memes the DP machine has running.

     Thats why she gets the soapboxes to peddle the message being a friendly lefty I.e. playing to the rights agenda of divide and rule.
   • tracey 1.2

     11 June 2015 at 7:15 am

     she is using her power (to get press coverage) for evil, not good 😉
     • Paul 1.2.1

       11 June 2015 at 7:22 am

       It would be interesting to know her sources of finance and the networking she does with corporates.
       ‘Real Labour’.
       She has no shame and is actually worse than Key, Joyce etc
       • mickysavage 1.2.1.1

         11 June 2015 at 8:32 am

         She was just on morning report being interviewed by Guyon Espiner. I am still waiting to hear from her one policy area which they are proposing.
         • Skinny 1.2.1.1.1

           11 June 2015 at 9:19 am

           I Do like Nike L from the little I’ve of him. Guess Pagani means well though the messaging can be a bit hit & miss. I didn’t like her admonishment of this blog site and the punters on here.

           Be interested in seeing the development and what they achieve.
         • tracey 1.2.1.1.2

           11 June 2015 at 10:35 am

           was she introduced as a voice of the Left? If so, it is nearly at the stage where RNZ could be done under the Fair Trading Act for misleading and deceptive conduct 😉

           And they can join Pagani as a third party on the same basis.

           😉
       • weka 1.2.1.2

         11 June 2015 at 8:46 am

         I really wish they’d gone with ‘True Labour’ because then it would have been obvious what they are up to and how blind they are. Plus, better ridicule factor.
   • b waghorn 1.3

     11 June 2015 at 7:27 am

     I’m a little confused is she an active member of labour ? And as she is causing more trouble then good why doesn’t Mr Little publicly cut her loose and labour cancel her membership.
     • Colonial Rawshark 1.3.1

       11 June 2015 at 8:57 am

       Because the Labour hierarchy contains plenty of people who sympathise with the Nash and Pagani wing
       • weka 1.3.1.1

         11 June 2015 at 9:22 am

         probably also because in order to cancel a membership you’d have to do something pretty serious. Pagani is not doing anything overtly negative to the Labour party, it’s all covert.
       • b waghorn 1.3.1.2

         11 June 2015 at 10:16 am

         It just leaves them so open to being sold as a party in a mess having loud mouths running around making there own news . I fully intend to join a political party before the next election and as a worker who believe s in a fair go for all it should be labour but at this stage the greens are winning.
     • tracey 1.3.2

       11 June 2015 at 10:36 am

       Mr Little has been following in previous leaders footsteps in very publicly courting business. he doesn’t publicly court Unions by the way…

       My guess is he is happy for her to do this if it means stealing voters from National… while he can try to appeal to “other” Labour potential voters and then somehow serve them all if elected to government benches.
       • b waghorn 1.3.2.1

         11 June 2015 at 12:52 pm

         The problem with sitting on the fence is you run the risk of falling off.
         • Tracey 1.3.2.1.1

           11 June 2015 at 1:45 pm

           or being impaled
   • Clean_power 1.4

     11 June 2015 at 9:27 am

     Paul, you have a very original view of what “a broad church” Labour is? Let Pagani speak and defeat her on ideas, but let her speak.
     • weka 1.4.1

       11 June 2015 at 9:41 am

       While I agree with the general principle of what you have said, there is a critical issue here of power. We don’t have the kind of power that Pagani has. She has standing and influence and actual positions of power (eg her role as a left wing commentator) that most of us here don’t have. There is no level playing field, and because of that she can continue to do damage no matter how much we challenge her ideas.

       She won’t come to a place like the standard to debate.

       Micky has been pointing out that she isn’t saying what policy she wants to be changed. I take that as a sign that she will use covert methods to achieve her ends. So that’s another area where she can’t be defeated on her ideas.
     • Olwyn 1.4.2

       11 June 2015 at 10:21 am

       ‘Broad church’ does not simply mean ‘whatever you like.’The Labour Party describes itself as a democratic socialist party, and has a set of principles outlining its general position: http://campaign.labour.org.nz/our-vision

       Ideas, positioning and such ought rightly to be able to be justified in relation to these general principles, although they may come from different perspectives. When I hear people saying such things as “Labour needs to take the tough decisions” without further explanation, I shudder. Historically, that sentence has tended to mean, you deserve to be screwed over, I deserve to be well-paid for contributing to your being screwed over – it is brave of me to do this and not fair if you hate me for it.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.4.2.1

         11 June 2015 at 10:57 am

         +1
   • maui 1.5

     11 June 2015 at 10:22 am

     Are there any specific examples of Pagani doing damage to Labour? I admit this isn’t the best look for Labour having a group think idea that hasn’t come from your leader.

     I don’t pay much attention to her commentaries either, but I do remember her being frustrated with Labour. Is that really a crime though in these times? It may be I just haven’t picked up on the subtleties of what she does.
     • Draco T Bastard 1.5.1

       11 June 2015 at 10:58 am

       Put it this way. Everything she does indicates that she agrees more with National than with Labour.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.6

     11 June 2015 at 10:51 am

     Josie Pagani, a former Labour Party candidate, confirmed she was involved in setting up a “think-tank” called Progress targeting Labour’s right and centre.

     “They have to realise if you’re talking about modernising the Labour Party, it is not a right- wing conspiracy.”

     If it’s got Pagani and Nash supportive of it then yes it is. And it’s not modernising it but helping take NZ back to feudal times.
     • Karen 1.6.1

       11 June 2015 at 11:42 am

       Nash, Pagani, Leggot, Quinn, Leyland – all on the right, neoliberal flank of Labour. Sounds like a right wing conspiracy to me.

       This needs to be stomped on before it does some real damage. If these people have ideas they wish to promote they should do it the democratic way. Write a remit and take your idea to a regional conference to be debated.

       What this so called think tank is designed to do is give this right wing cabal a way of not having to have their ideas debated by party members before promoting them in the media. They have been undermining any leftward movement in the Labour Party for years – in Quinn’s case it began in the 1990s. They can’t be expelled, but they must not be allowed to claim they are spokespeople for Labour.
       • Colonial Rawshark 1.6.1.1

         11 June 2015 at 12:28 pm

         the likes of this crowd were pivotal to the destruction of Labour as a political force in the 1980s, and the loss of 95% of its membership.

         There is also significant support for the right wing think tank in the Labour Caucus. Little seems quite fine with giving the project a chance to stretch its legs and get established.

         This is 21st century Labour for you.
         • te reo putake 1.6.1.1.1

           11 June 2015 at 12:35 pm

           According to Josie P on RNZ, Little tried to talk her out of it, but eventually accepted he had no ability to stop the group forming. Which I suppose is Ok, really. Even if we think this project is pants, I don’t think the party should be stopping people talking. However, if it does real damage, then there are processes for that. Not that I’m comparing Josie to John A Lee, of course!
           • Draco T Bastard 1.6.1.1.1.1

             11 June 2015 at 1:07 pm

             I have no problem with the think tank itself – just that it’s identifying itself with Labour and the Left when it isn’t either of those things.
             • te reo putake …

               11 June 2015 at 1:21 pm

               Spot on, Draco. The third way isn’t a gentle nudge to the centre, it’s a lopping off of anything that remotely looks like genuine Labour policy. It’s also a sneering middle class rejection of the very people Labour should be aiming to represent.

               Edit: The latest from Blair: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/11/tony-blair-warns-against-labour-move-to-the-left
               • Tracey …

                 11 June 2015 at 2:04 pm

                 Blair? Blair? Oh the guy who lied about WMD to get us all into a new war?
             • Tracey …

               11 June 2015 at 1:47 pm

               Exactly, some people want LP to be more like National = they are in the
               wrong party
             • Chooky …

               11 June 2015 at 2:35 pm

               +100 DTB
           • Colonial Rawshark 1.6.1.1.1.2

             11 June 2015 at 2:00 pm

             According to Josie P on RNZ, Little tried to talk her out of it,

             I was more referring to involvement and support by members of caucus.
             • te reo putake …

               11 June 2015 at 2:03 pm

               Ok, gotcha. That’s a tricky area for a leader who didn’t get many votes from his colleagues 😉
               • Colonial Rawshark …

                 11 June 2015 at 2:19 pm

                 Yes indeed.
                 • Anne …

                   11 June 2015 at 4:30 pm

                   It isn’t only Little who is unhappy with the proposal. I have the impression many in caucus (including deputy Annette King) are totally opposed…

                   By all means have your think tank but you do NOT involve the Labour Party Madam Pagani and friends. If you want to be involved in policy decisions then do what everyone else has to do: take your ideas to the Policy Council.

                   This strikes me as an attempt to commandeer the policy making process of the Labour Party to suit their own agendas.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     11 June 2015 at 6:14 pm

                     This strikes me as an attempt to commandeer the policy making process of the Labour Party to suit their own agendas.

                     QFT

                     It’s just going to become another lobbying firm.
                   • Rodel …

                     11 June 2015 at 9:23 pm

                     ” If you want to be involved in policy decisions then do what everyone else has to do: take your ideas to the Policy Council.”
                     agree 100%
           • Tracey 1.6.1.1.1.3

             11 June 2015 at 2:03 pm

             that was her reminding people how important she is, that she has direct access to Little or that he pursued her…

             i still recall her sermon from the mount here two christmases ago…

             🙄
       • Chooky 1.6.1.2

         11 June 2015 at 4:57 pm

         maybe Pagani, Nash, Leggot et al should start their own Party ?…the Pagani Big Mouth Party…I am sure Hoots Possum would help

         …i am all for a Labour ‘think tank’ …(so politicians dont put their foot in their mouth eg super ….and the Labour /Left strategises to oust jonkey nact) ..but Pagani et al aint it imo
       • Olwyn 1.6.1.3

         11 June 2015 at 7:40 pm

         What this so called think tank is designed to do is give this right wing cabal a way of not having to have their ideas debated by party members before promoting them in the media.

         I think your observation is spot-on Karen – it looks like an attempt to circumnavigate the party via the media and force caucus’s hand.
   • the Pink Postman 1.7

     11 June 2015 at 3:46 pm

     What I would like to know is who the hell said that J Pagani is the splokesperson for the Labour Party.? I have been a member for over 60 years and Life member for 30 years yet I have never met this lady or what is more important is in all the committe elections I have voted for, her name has never come up.These self styled spokespeople need to be silenced. Her continued presence on Q&A the Nation and other public media slots needs to be explained. And to finish Im sick to death of these outspoken so called Labour reps whom have no interest in the LP policies or philosophy whatsoever. Please somebody shut these smarmy slime bags up now!!.
     • Anne 1.7.1

       11 June 2015 at 4:40 pm

       Well said Pink Postman.
2. philj 2

   11 June 2015 at 7:39 am

   ‘Former Labour Candidate’ says it all. Pagani is not from the left. Andrew Little needs to have a quiet word in her ear, and if he has already, suggest she join Act et al.
   • Colonial Rawshark 2.1

     11 June 2015 at 12:31 pm

     Little seems fine with the project. Labour is a “broad church” after all.
     • Chooky 2.1.1

       11 June 2015 at 7:06 pm

       isnt Pagani a supporter of Shearer?
       • Karen 2.1.1.1

         11 June 2015 at 7:25 pm

         Pagani backed Shearer, then when that didn’t work out she backed Shane Jones!

         I would just like Labour to make it clear she does not represent the Party, she is just someone who paid her membership, and if she wants more influence she should go to regional conferences and argue for policies she likes.
3. Dont worry. Be happy 3

   11 June 2015 at 7:50 am

   The shipment of 50,000 sheep to Mexico is cruelty on an industrial level. Animal cruelty is illegal in this country. Call the cops!
   • vto 3.1

     11 June 2015 at 7:52 am

     Should ease the housing shortage though
     • halfcrown 3.1.1

       11 June 2015 at 8:22 am

       “Should ease the housing shortage though”

       Ha I like it,

       Talking about sheep did anyone see TVNZ morning programme this morning? I could not believe it . I was watching Cross Talk on RT. The in depth discussion was on the Ukraine. I happened to turn in error to TVNZ and guess what the discussion was between that simpering blonde female and Christy? Humpty fucking Dumpty being egg shaped or something. Did not get it all as I immediately turned back to RT.
       • b waghorn 3.1.1.1

         11 June 2015 at 10:21 am

         As I won’t watch henry I switched to tv one recently ,what a shit show it is ,fortunately my free view has nat radio so good bye morning TV for me.
   • b waghorn 3.2

     11 June 2015 at 7:56 am

     I want to know how involved the Arab gentleman is in this whole thing . apparently the stock were quarantined on his property in rakia .I’d be interested to know if he owns land in Mexico
     • tracey 3.2.1

       11 June 2015 at 10:38 am

       we have been exporting stock to Mexico for some time.
       • b waghorn 3.2.1.1

         11 June 2015 at 12:46 pm

         I’m not against the of live export idea if its done right, and its not cutting our meat workers out of the loop,
         But given national s carry on lately around this subject I am very curious to know if this is all above board and just business or are the nats doing a bit more” facilitating”
4. vto 4

   11 June 2015 at 8:02 am

   Watched John Key being interviewed by Mahingarangi Forbes last eve on Maori TV. Key was bloody hopeless and could hardly string a sentence together.

   Quite astounding really.

   But there you go – nothing new in that. Apparently New Zealanders like having an incoherent leader.
   • ianmac 4.1

     11 June 2015 at 10:05 am

     Yes Vto. A dodgy looking Key. A must watch. Interview about 15min in.
     http://www.maoritelevision.com/tv/shows/native-affairs/S09E014/native-affairs
     • adam 4.1.1

       11 June 2015 at 12:09 pm

       I will miss Mahingarangi Forbes when she departs native affairs.

       Is it my imagination, or does Key start speaking faster when he’s lying? And his hand movements look trained/measured when he’s doing it too?
   • Chooky 4.2

     11 June 2015 at 10:38 am

     duplicitous and slick I would describe him ….but Mahingarangi Forbes was insistent on the truth
     • Gangnam Style 4.2.1

       11 June 2015 at 11:06 am

       I did laugh at her look of befuddlement when John Key started going on about his mother speaking german, her ‘wtf are you talking about’ moment. He was hopeless, every sentence starts with ‘to the best of my knowledge’ or ‘or so I have been told’, I did wish she kept on asking ‘what do you know for sure’ lines, but time was short I guess.
5. Galeandra 5

   11 June 2015 at 8:44 am

   RIP Peter Conway. Chris Trotter posts a thoughtful tribute to this admirable man.

   Perhaps a Standard author might do the same.
   • Rosie 5.1

     11 June 2015 at 9:49 am

     A few of us acknowledged Peter Conway’s death on Open Mike on Tuesday.

     Apart from the notice from the family on stuffed.co.nz I haven’t seen much else in the media, which has surprised me.

     It is quite possible however, the family’s preference is for privacy at this time.
     • Jenny Kirk 5.1.1

       11 June 2015 at 10:08 am

       There’s been quite a bit about Peter Conway and his untimely death on various Facebook sites plus comment from both Labour and Green Parties.
       • Rosie 5.1.1.1

         11 June 2015 at 11:06 am

         I’m not on facebook so am not aware of that conversation.

         I was also surprised that Grant Robertson didn’t mention Peter Conway on the scoop report on the radio this morning. Maybe he didn’t think it wasn’t the time or place.

         I don’t have criticism for the MSM silence, it’s just an observation.
         • Tracey 5.1.1.1.1

           11 June 2015 at 1:48 pm

           if a top business person died it would be news…

           Robertson not mentioning it is just more of LP embarassment around Unions.
   • tracey 5.2

     11 June 2015 at 10:39 am

     You could write a Guest post and we would post it? I know TRP was deeply moved by Peter’s passing when he posted in response tot he news,.
6. Charles 6

   11 June 2015 at 9:07 am

   “… it’s nine oh six on Radio Standard, Thursday morning, hope you’re up and moving along nicely in that rainy Auckland traffic hmmmm yes mmmkay? ….and a special little song going out to all the National Party supporters, from a special dreamy-eyed boy all the way down, deep deep down, way down … in Nelson…”

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yca2BCwAnBQ
   • tracey 6.1

     11 June 2015 at 10:40 am

     shows an error for me.

     I will give credit where it is due. To Peter Dunne. His decision, imo, was good one.
7. Tautoko Mangō Mata 7

   11 June 2015 at 9:12 am

   The continuing tale of TPPA and Tim Groser.
   Wikileaks have released “the Healthcare Annex to the secret draft “Transparency” Chapter of the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP), along with each country’s negotiating position. The Healthcare Annex seeks to regulate state schemes for medicines and medical devices. It forces healthcare authorities to give big pharmaceutical companies more information about national decisions on public access to medicine, and grants corporations greater powers to challenge decisions they perceive as harmful to their interests.”
   https://wikileaks.org/tpp/healthcare/press.html

   “Pharmac under threat from TPP – Wikileaks”
   The Annex on Transparency and Procedural Fairness for Pharmaceutical Products and Medical Devices was posted on Wikileaks last night.”
   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/275928/pharmac-under-threat-from-tpp-wikileaks

   “The purported aim of the Annex is to facilitate ‘high-quality healthcare’ but the Annex does nothing to achieve this. It is clearly intended to cater to the interests of the pharmaceutical industry. Nor does this do anything to promote “free trade”: rather it tightly specifies the operation of countries’ schemes for subsidizing pharmaceuticals and medical devices with the aim of providing greater disclosure, more avenues for pharmaceutical industry influence and greater opportunities for industry contestation of pharmaceutical decision making.”
   http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/06/10/leaked-text-shows-big-pharma-bullies-using-tpp-undermine-global-health

   Meanwhile in 2013,”Tim Groser is confident the TPP will have a marginal impact on public institutions like Pharmac.”
   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1309/S00247/tim-groser-adamant-trans-pacific-partnership-good-for-nz.htm

   2014. Open letter by Tim Groser in Dom Post 12 May 2014
   Minister Ryall recently wrote about his perspectives as Minister of Health on the TPP
   negotiations (nzdoctor.co.nz). I would urge practitioners in the New Zealand medical
   community to read that article closely. It reaffirms the strong health focus we bring to areas like investment, intellectual property and Pharmac issues in the negotiation. The Ministry of Health, a core part of New Zealand’s negotiating team, works closely with my negotiators to ensure our health policy priorities are protected in TPP. On countless occasions, both in New Zealand and abroad, I have said that we will not negotiate on the fundamentals of the public health system, including Pharmac.
   http://www.mfat.govt.nz/downloads/trade agreement/transpacific/Response%20to%20open%20letter%20on%20health.pdf

   2014 Tim Groser on RNZ “There will be no fundamental change in Pharmac’s operations as a result of the trade agreement.”
   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/257457/medicines-%27won%27t-cost-more-under-tpp%27

   Yeah right!
   • Clashman 7.1

     11 June 2015 at 9:30 am

     I think if its signed and he has clearly lied its rope and lamppost time.
     not figuratively.
     • Colonial Rawshark 7.1.1

       11 June 2015 at 12:23 pm

       History shows that the elite of any given age will eventually push to such ludicrous and self serving extremes, that is what happens.
8. ianmac 8

   11 June 2015 at 9:56 am

   For those who believe in the school voucher system and Free (Charter?) schools then Sweden has a cautionary tale for you. From the Guardian:

   “Sweden’s decline follows a raft of changes in the late 1980s and early 1990s that transformed the educational landscape. A system that had been largely centralised was devolved to municipalities, teacher training was changed, exams and grades changed, and a voucher system was introduced giving parents the power to choose which school to send their child to. Each child was funded by the state, and if the child chose to go do a different school, the money would follow.

   Since then, almost 800 publicly funded private schools – or free schools – have been set up across Sweden, many of them by companies who are allowed to make a profit. ….
   Critics on the left in Sweden blame the voucher system for declining results, saying it has opened the door for schools more interested in making a profit than providing education. Conservatives who support free choice say students have been given too much influence in the classroom, undermining the authority of teachers…..”
   http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/10/sweden-schools-crisis-political-failure-education
   • David H 8.1

     11 June 2015 at 6:42 pm

     Oh the educational model that the Nats are following now . Not what a father with a young bright mind to nurture and grow. Really wants to hear.
9. weka 9

   11 June 2015 at 10:07 am

   Sign the petition: Stop Unsustainable Dairy Farm Conversions

   http://action.greens.org.nz/stop-unsustainable-dairy-conversions

   via @NZGreens

   Government-owned Landcorp is in the process of converting swathes of land in the Upper Waikato area to dairy farms, and introducing 29,500 extra cows to the environment. The impact of those cows and the waste they produce will undermine the good work farmers have been doing to revive the river downstream.

   The Government and Landcorp should do the right thing by our environment and responsible farmers and support a moratorium on dairy conversions. There’s only so much the environment can take, and we – along with many Waikato farmers – believe we’re at the point where it can’t take anymore.

   We’re asking you to help us back our great farmers and rivers by calling for a stop to massive unsustainable dairy conversions. You can sign using the form below or by returning a completed petition form to us.
   • Colonial Rawshark 9.1

     11 June 2015 at 12:34 pm

     convincing the banks that certain classes of dairy conversion are unsustainable will stop the activity in its tracks
     • weka 9.1.1

       11 June 2015 at 5:06 pm

       Good luck with that. I seem to remember that in the past when farming got financially unsustainable, farmers just had their land sold our from under them i.e. I don’t think the banks care about sustainability (environmental or economic)
       • Colonial Rawshark 9.1.1.1

         11 June 2015 at 6:14 pm

         the banks are paying very close attention to dairy profitability and sustainability at the moment
         • weka 9.1.1.1.1

           11 June 2015 at 6:35 pm

           in what way?
         • Kiwiri 9.1.1.1.2

           11 June 2015 at 6:38 pm

           yeah, and then next, it will be like in Australia when banks such as ANZ began to foreclose on many farming properties and force famers off the land, e.g. drought-stricken ones who missed repayments
10. Puckish Rogue 10

    11 June 2015 at 10:33 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/69283074/nz-reserve-bank-cuts-key-rate-to-325-per-cent-banks-cut-mortgage-rates

    – Lower mortgage rates is what everyone wants see
    • dv 10.1

      11 June 2015 at 10:37 am

      Shame about those people who depend on interest rates to pay there way.
      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1

        11 June 2015 at 10:44 am

        In this case it’ll be better for more people but I see your point
        • dv 10.1.1.1

          11 June 2015 at 11:01 am

          I was reacting to the word everyone.
          • Colonial Rawshark 10.1.1.1.1

            11 June 2015 at 12:35 pm

            Overseas zero interest rate policies have smashed savers and pensioners in favour of borrowers and speculators.
            • b waghorn 10.1.1.1.1.1

              11 June 2015 at 12:48 pm

              That is why people have there money in property and not the bank.
              • Colonial Rawshark …

                11 June 2015 at 2:18 pm

                Yes – it is also one of the forces used to pressure ordinary people into giving their monies to Wall St fund managers to gamble with, in the desperate search for net positive returns.
    • tracey 10.2

      11 June 2015 at 10:41 am

      rents will drop, right? To reflect the drop in cost for the Landlord?
      • The Lone Haranguer 10.2.1

        11 June 2015 at 11:05 am

        The interest rate drop may offset the increase in rates, so, no, rents will not drop from the drop in interest rates.

        Also landownerswill be hoarding any extra cash to improve heat and warmth later on. But only spending it when forced to by law tho.

        Article in “The press” today shows rents dropping quite significantly (in the middle and upper price ranges) in Chch as supply starts to exceed demand.
        • tracey 10.2.1.1

          11 June 2015 at 11:11 am

          rates increases are already embedded in many rents Haranger.

          @landlords hoarding cash to improve heat and warmth later on…

          Thanks for the chuckle. Some might but what about the ones who have had lots of interest rate cuts and still haven’t warmed up their homes?

          it was inevitable that rents would drop in CHCHCH as labour left in the slow down of the rebuild. I wonder which parts of Auckland those folks are returning to cos not all of them are moving into repaired or new built home sin CHCHCH.?
          • The Lone Haranguer 10.2.1.1.1

            11 June 2015 at 11:23 am

            I did say “only when forced to by law” tho.

            There are some damn good landlords out there. The ones I rent my warehouse/offices from here in Chch havent raised the rent since 2008 when I took over the lease.

            And on one of my commercial properties (not in Chch), my rental income has come back by $25,000pa as the property values have dropped in the provinces.
            • tracey 10.2.1.1.1.1

              11 June 2015 at 11:31 am

              of course there are but the “good” ones aren’t the problem. We are focusing on housing rather than commercial.
      • James 10.2.2

        11 June 2015 at 12:02 pm

        Many will be on fixed rates (for predictable cashflow and returns) so no positive impact to them to pass on.
        • tracey 10.2.2.1

          11 June 2015 at 12:05 pm

          of course, palm/head… so the rents will drop when they come off the fixed rate and move to a lower fixed rate, right?
          • Kiwiri 10.2.2.1.1

            11 June 2015 at 12:22 pm

            oh what genius the system creates, where flexible rates are involved, the rents will drop to be more competitive because the market really works.
      • miravox 10.2.3

        11 June 2015 at 6:25 pm

        ECON101: Lecturer to class – “Prices are sticky in a downward direction”
11. The Lone Haranguer 11

    11 June 2015 at 10:50 am

    I read a year or two back (sorry cant give the reference) that there are more individuals receiving interest on investments in NZ, than there are borrowers who benefit from the lower rates.

    So maybe we are more of a “nation of savers” than we thought we were.
    • tracey 11.1

      11 June 2015 at 11:12 am

      well that is partly because the borrowing rules got changed remember that which moved a bunch of borrowers from the market.

      There are still a few hundred thousand kiwis who can’t save because they are too busy working out which utility bill to delay paying this month without it getting cut off.
    • tracey 11.2

      11 June 2015 at 11:17 am

      “1. Learning involves the active construction of meaning by the learner. This well-established principle involves the fact that students link new information with information that they already know. New and old information are assembled into mental models. If the old information is faulty, that compromises the learning of new information. “Learning can be thought about as a process of conceptual change in which faulty or incomplete models are repaired.” (p. 161) Fixing faulty mental models can be very difficult, as witnessed by research documenting that even after taking a course (physics is often used as an example), students still hold serious misconceptions. ”

      Michael, J. (2006). Where’s the evidence that active learning works? Advances in Physiology Education, 30, 159-167.

      Methinks CT know this only too well.
12. Kiwiri 12

    11 June 2015 at 10:56 am

    NZ Prime Minister lives by nothing to fear, nothing to hide:

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/key-s-spy-fears-pm-throws-away-cellphone-every-three-months-6336226

    /sarc
    • tracey 12.1

      11 June 2015 at 2:24 pm

      It only proves that he is actually oblivious to most things that don’t involve himself.

      It beggars belief how long an investigation takes don’t you think?

      “An investigation by chief archivist Marilyn Little as to whether that amounts to destruction of public records is progressing.”

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/260477/advice-sought-on-pm-destroying-texts

      Dec 22 2014 Ms Little agreed to investigate…

      over 5 months later…
      • Kiwiri 12.1.1

        11 June 2015 at 5:25 pm

        5 months later, it is still very difficult, if almost impossible, to track down which mobile phone he was using, with which SIM card, in which capacity he bought/used it or deleted messages, and where the phones are now.
13. smokes kreen 13

    11 June 2015 at 11:10 am

    So the Reserve Bank has cut the OCR to 3.25% due to low inflationary pressures. Yeah right!
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11463007

    What about the 3.8% rise in rates one Council that I know of is imposing on its ratepayers for the next 10 years? Because these increases are cumulative this means that the rates will increase by a whopping 50% over that period without allowing for any additional “levies” they impose and without taking into account the three yearly review of property valuations.

    What about the latest rort by the Power Companies where standing charges have risen an enormous amount over the last two years (around 80% by our power company) and power unit charges have reduced minimally by about 3%.

    Insurance premiums on properties have also increased massively in recent times.

    On top of all of this will be increased GST!

    It makes you wonder what items are actually measured to arrive at annual inflation rates in this country because it doesn’t appear that everyday items such as power, rates and insurances are included.
    • tracey 13.1

      11 June 2015 at 11:13 am

      Inflation is, apparently, 0%, outside the RB range. I am sure it will be recalled when anyone asks for a wage increase 😉
      • Colonial Rawshark 13.1.1

        11 June 2015 at 12:37 pm

        world economies are under attack by price deflation at the moment – especially if you leave out the financial asset price bubbles which have been expanding last few years.

        Consumers are ever poorer and tapping out, while the world is awash with production over capacity.
        • Draco T Bastard 13.1.1.1

          11 June 2015 at 1:18 pm

          world economies are under attack by price deflation at the moment – especially if you leave out the financial asset price bubbles which have been expanding last few years.

          Yep, without the financial bubbles the world would still be in the recession that started in 2k8 and with all the austerity for the poor going round it would have deepened into a depression.
          • Colonial Rawshark 13.1.1.1.1

            11 June 2015 at 1:31 pm

            and the bottom 50% of people in the western world pretty much remain in the Great Recession
        • Tracey 13.1.1.2

          11 June 2015 at 1:50 pm

          watch for barely a flicker in our news that inflation is below RB target (statutorily imposed) range, and as you say that deflation is a problem…
          • Colonial Rawshark 13.1.1.2.1

            11 June 2015 at 1:57 pm

            and absolutely expected as consumers become paupers and corporations limit capital investment to the lowest levels in history.
    • halfcrown 13.2

      11 June 2015 at 12:07 pm

      Nah nah, You have got to get your priorities right smokes, Inflation is never measured on everyday unavoidable items like rates, power etc, it is based on more important things like the cost of Caviar, bottles of Moet, international travel or the price of the latest Merc. Get you thinking right.
14. Penny Bright 14

    11 June 2015 at 11:12 am

    FYI – just had confirmation from Transparency International Canada that Canada HAS passed legislation outlawing ‘facilitation payments’:

    ———————————————————————————————–

    “Dear Penny: Thank you for your email.

    Indeed, Canada has moved forward with regard to facilitation payments, with the amendments that were passed regarding the Corruption of Foreign Public Officials Act, in 2013. If you visit: https://www.gowlings.com/KnowledgeCentre/article.asp?pubID=2940 you will see the comment re. facilitation payments (bullet #4). Unfortunately, we don’t yet know the date these will be phased out.

    Kind regards. Bronwyn

    Bronwyn Best
    Senior Advisor
    TI-Canada”

    ————————————————————————————————

    Penny Bright

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
15. The Murphey 15

    11 June 2015 at 11:26 am

    Shameful indeed

    1. “Questioning my right to interpret language”

    2. “Questioning my right to ban”

    3. “Questioning my self esteem”

    4. “Questioning my authority”

    5. Deleting comments having stated “ I would never do that, fact ” while accusing BB of being ‘pompous’

    Q. Do you realize the gravitas of your hypocrisy TRP ?

    Awful
    • te reo putake 15.1

      11 June 2015 at 11:29 am

      You do realise that Fact! is a joke, TM? Fact!
      • The Murphey 15.1.1

        11 June 2015 at 11:32 am

        Q. So you were exhibiting some level of self awareness in that comment ?
        • te reo putake 15.1.1.1

          11 June 2015 at 11:37 am

          Obviously. If you can’t laugh at yourself, then how can you laugh at anyone else?

          Your made up examples aren’t at all funny, though, so please have a look at the policy: http://thestandard.org.nz/policy/
          • The Murphey 15.1.1.1.1

            11 June 2015 at 11:45 am

            http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08062015/#comment-1026808

            “What’s pompous is his constant deletion of comments that challenge his bullshit, so that he can always have the last word. I’d never do that. Fact!

            Point out the examples I have made up ?

            Q. Are you going to ban me for telling the truth again ?
            • te reo putake 15.1.1.1.1.1

              11 June 2015 at 11:47 am

              They’re in the first comment in this thread. I’ve never banned you for telling the truth. But if you want to try self martyrdom, keep writing in this vein.
              • The Murphey …

                11 June 2015 at 11:58 am

                [Deleted. Take a month off. TRP]

                [lprent: Based on your comments in the spam, I suspect that you didn’t actually address the issue that you got banned on in terms of the policy in this comment. You probably did it in terms of your outraged ego and by attacking the moderator. That was why the comment got deleted.

                We would generally allow a single comment through that addresses the point that you got banned on. But continuing to attack a moderator who gave you a ban is not exactly the right idea. Take a further two months off from me.

                If you want to argue that further in spam, then I’m perfectly happy to keep doubling up. But we are merely the poor buggers who spend a *lot* of time and effort working on it. We are not a famous critic like you seem to think you are. To me, you just appear to be a useless idiot having severe issue of having no brain in either head. ]
                • Chooky …

                  11 June 2015 at 12:15 pm

                  @ The Murphey….holiday at the Daily Blog ?

                  http://thedailyblog.co.nz/

                  http://thedailyblog.co.nz/author/martyn-bradbury/

                  http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/06/11/the-daily-blog-open-mic-thursday-11th-june-2015/
                • adam …

                  11 June 2015 at 12:31 pm

                  Thank you te reo putake – I’m so over having to look at these type of chains.

                  I just wish people would take five minutes – walk away from the keyboard and laugh at themselves.

                  Every heated exchange you get into online – does look a lot less important – if you give yourself time to reflect.
                  • te reo putake …

                    11 June 2015 at 12:38 pm

                    Cheers, adam, wise words.
                • The Murphey …

                  13 June 2015 at 7:03 pm

                  [deleted]

                  [lprent: Fuck off – don’t return. Permanent ban for being an idiot ]
      • weka 15.1.2

        11 June 2015 at 5:46 pm

        “You do realise that Fact! is a joke, TM? Fact!”

        That’s confusing and I wouldn’t have picked that your comment in the other thread was a joke.
        • te reo putake 15.1.2.1

          11 June 2015 at 8:55 pm

          Crikey, how soon they forget!

          http://thestandard.org.nz/milifandom-labour-are-going-to-win-the-uk-election-fact/

          Fact! gets used a bit in comedic banter, but Aussies sports commentators HG and Roy used it most shows. That’s where I picked it up from. Can’t find any specific examples, but this will give you a sense of their comedic approach:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoLrGVHJy_w
          • weka 15.1.2.1.1

            11 June 2015 at 9:22 pm

            Yeah, I just wasn’t sure if you meant that you don’t remove comments or you do. But I guess that question has since been resolved.
16. tracey 16

    11 June 2015 at 11:33 am

    “1. Learning involves the active construction of meaning by the learner. This well-established principle involves the fact that students link new information with information that they already know. New and old information are assembled into mental models. If the old information is faulty, that compromises the learning of new information. “Learning can be thought about as a process of conceptual change in which faulty or incomplete models are repaired.” (p. 161) Fixing faulty mental models can be very difficult, as witnessed by research documenting that even after taking a course (physics is often used as an example), students still hold serious misconceptions. ”

    Michael, J. (2006). Where’s the evidence that active learning works? Advances in Physiology Education, 30, 159-167.

    Methinks CT know this only too well.
    • Colonial Rawshark 16.1

      11 June 2015 at 12:20 pm

      Most Labour MPs have been educated into the thinking model of markets, financial systems and fiscal discipline now. Job done.
      • tracey 16.1.1

        11 June 2015 at 12:29 pm

        agree
      • Clean_power 16.1.2

        11 June 2015 at 12:32 pm

        Very good. That constitutes an excellent education on how to run a modern economy. Gone are the days of big, bloated, elephant-like socialist states.
        • Colonial Rawshark 16.1.2.1

          11 June 2015 at 12:40 pm

          That’s weird, your “modern economies” are crashing throughout the world and have required trillions of newly printed money to stay alive on life support all the while pushing 40M people in those developed nations into unemployment. (And probably twice that undermployed).

          It’s odd that you would be so proud of that.

          Mind you the 1% and especially the 0.1% have done very well out of it so maybe your pleasure is justified.
          • Clean_power 16.1.2.1.1

            11 June 2015 at 12:45 pm

            Last century saw the victory of capitalism over socialism, so your economic model is a third-way or what?
            Let me quote Santayana: “Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.”
            • Chooky 16.1.2.1.1.1

              11 June 2015 at 1:05 pm

              @Clean_power…urh …i think it is capitalism that is breaking down now …and this was forecast by Marxists ( agree with the quote by Santayana)…the third way is beginning to happen…but will it be Bankster technocratic fascism or revolutionary grassroots democracy?

              http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/265822-episode-max-keiser-768/

              Every week Max Keiser looks at the scandal behind the financial headlines.

              In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss leaving the Troika to gloat over the devastation that is Europe. In the second half, Max interviews Ross Ashcroft of RenegadeInc.com about crowdfunding his own content in order to educate the population about the economic news that the BBC refuses to tell. They discuss the fact that there has already essentially been a “Grexit.” Greece is gone. What else can be done?
            • Tracey 16.1.2.1.1.2

              11 June 2015 at 1:52 pm

              “”Let me quote Santayana: “Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.”

              I bet the irony is lost on you.
            • Colonial Rawshark 16.1.2.1.1.3

              11 June 2015 at 1:56 pm

              Last century saw the victory of capitalism over socialism, so your economic model is a third-way or what?

              Huh? Corporate socialism, corporate welfare and broken markets are more rampant than ever. How do you see that as a “victory” of capitalism over socialism?
              • Tracey …

                11 June 2015 at 2:02 pm

                it’s the winning that matters, not the consequences of winning.
            • Draco T Bastard 16.1.2.1.1.4

              11 June 2015 at 1:58 pm

              Let me quote Santayana: “Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.”

              Then I suggest you read some history. I suggest is Debt: The first 5000 years (large pdf) by David Graeber as it clearly spells out how capitalism has failed for the last 5000 years.

              Then I suggest looking at the Great Depression and how that started. HINT: It was capitalism

              Then I suggest looking at the Great Recession and how that started. HINT: It was capitalism

              History shows, quite conclusively, that capitalism always fails and that it takes societies with it when it does.
              • Clean_power …

                11 June 2015 at 2:05 pm

                What system do you propose, Draco? Does it exist or has it ever existed?
                • tracey …

                  11 June 2015 at 2:14 pm

                  What do you suggest? More of the same?
                • Colonial Rawshark …

                  11 June 2015 at 2:16 pm

                  The gift economy, with government issue of debt free money at no interest, used for everything else.
      • Draco T Bastard 16.1.3

        11 June 2015 at 1:51 pm

        And it’s all mostly wrong but they just don’t see it.
17. Shane Le Brun 17

    11 June 2015 at 12:20 pm

    I am pleased to announce that the Medical Cannabis orientated organisation, United in Compassion NZ, now has the support of the NZ Drug Foundation, in Addition to the Hemp industry association and the Epilepsy Foundation of NZ.

    http://unitedincompassion.org.nz/nz-drug-foundation-supporting-statement/
    • tracey 17.1

      11 June 2015 at 12:28 pm

      Great news. It’s been useful to hear some facts shine through the last few days and Dunne deserves credit for his decision.
    • adam 17.2

      11 June 2015 at 12:34 pm

      Sanity may prevail.

      What I’d give to be able to use Medical Cannabis, rather than Medical Opiates.
    • Chooky 17.3

      11 June 2015 at 1:06 pm

      +100 Shane Le Brun
    • Shane Le Brun 17.4

      11 June 2015 at 1:13 pm

      we need donations urgently, to fund things further while we formalise as a charitable trust, and to get people to our next meeting in wellington. 🙂

      https://givealittle.co.nz/project/uicnzseedfunding#
      • Tracey 17.4.1

        11 June 2015 at 1:53 pm

        Shane, maybe wait until you are through the moderation process… so people feel more comfortable before they donate?
18. Tracey 18

    11 June 2015 at 1:59 pm

    Where do employees rank in a large company’s priorities?

    Well at Fonterra, a wee way down

    “Fonterra staff informed hundreds of jobs would go hours after comments made to media Fonterra only told staff about the potential for hundreds of jobs to go several hours after chief executive Theo Spierings told media.”

    So, to be clear, some relatives may have text or email or phoned employees to ask about their jobs before the employee even knew there was a problem.
    • Colonial Rawshark 18.1

      11 June 2015 at 2:15 pm

      Hey with only 17 corporate executives earning over $1M each, you can’t expect for every detail to be properly managed.
    • RedBaronCV 18.2

      11 June 2015 at 8:12 pm

      And how come Fonterra which is, I assume, supplying roughly the same volume of product but at lower prices suddenly discovers that it doesn’t need the work that all these people are doing?? Looks like they’d better get rid of the 17 overpaid executives who didn’t realise that they had so many people doing nothing for so long (sarc).

      And my thoughts are with all those who were doing a good job only to find themselves out the door
      • b waghorn 18.2.1

        11 June 2015 at 8:27 pm

        If those 1million dollar men took a 50% pay cut that would free up enough money to pay 85 people $100,000 each amazing A
19. millsy 19

    11 June 2015 at 2:50 pm

    Clean_power – what policies do you think Labour should drop or keep?

    Do you support privatisation?
    Do you support US style health care?
    Do you want unions banned and employment law rolled back?
    Do you support privatisation education?
    Are power prices not high enough?
    Would you can welfare?
    Would you get rid of state housing?
    Is it Ok for the air and water to be poisoned

    etc?
    • Clean_power 19.1

      11 June 2015 at 3:13 pm

      My answers:
      Do you support privatisation? Yes.
      Do you support US style health care? No.
      Do you want unions banned and employment law rolled back? No.
      Do you support privatisation education? Yes.
      Are power prices not high enough? Compared to what?
      Would you can welfare? No. It should be given to the needy, old and infirm.
      Would you get rid of state housing? Yes.
      Is it Ok for the air and water to be poisoned? Absurd question.
      • Colonial Rawshark 19.1.1

        11 June 2015 at 3:16 pm

        I am very surprised that you do not support US style healthcare. The US health sector is highly profitable, brings consistent large returns to investors, and delivers the highest tech, most advanced, most clinically effective treatments known to mankind.
        • miravox 19.1.1.1

          11 June 2015 at 6:40 pm

          “The US health sector is” …. also the most expensive and least accessible healthcare system in the developed world, with some of the poorest population-based outcomes
          http://www.commonwealthfund.org/interactives-and-data/us-compare-interactive#?ind=1
      • Chooky 19.1.2

        11 June 2015 at 4:01 pm

        privatisation of education is a disaster…especially when taxpayers money is used to support private education and the state education system is run down as the jonkey nacts have been doing

        ….I suggest you look at the history and results of of the USA education privatisation vs state education in Finland

        https://bertmaes.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/why-is-education-in-finland-that-good-10-reform-principles-behind-the-success/

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Ravitch

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland

        http://www.educationaotearoa.org.nz/all-stories/2014/4/29/be-afraid-the-privatisation-of-public-education.html

        http://azednews.com/2014/12/17/diane-ravitch-on-test-scores-equity-charter-schools-and-the-teaching-profession/
20. millsy 20

    11 June 2015 at 3:17 pm

    Looks like you are hard right.

    And you are on record as opposing water quality standards.
    • Clean_power 20.1

      11 June 2015 at 3:29 pm

      You are mistaken, millsy.
      Oppose water quality standard? No. I must say you phrased your question very badly.
      • millsy 20.1.1

        11 June 2015 at 3:49 pm

        So why do you hate the Greens?

        And what privatisation do you support?
        • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1.1

          11 June 2015 at 3:54 pm

          I do enjoy reading your leaps of logic
          • Clean_power 20.1.1.1.1

            11 June 2015 at 4:10 pm

            If that is logic, I must be Boole himself.
            • millsy 20.1.1.1.1.1

              11 June 2015 at 4:11 pm

              Im not the one who despises the public sector.
              • Clean_power …

                11 June 2015 at 4:15 pm

                You seem to be confused or have misread what I wrote. Where did I say I despise the public sector?
                • millsy …

                  11 June 2015 at 4:20 pm

                  Well you support privatisation .
                  • Puckish Rogue …

                    11 June 2015 at 4:25 pm

                    You support multi-national corporations
21. Brendan 21

    11 June 2015 at 4:01 pm

    More union hate:

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/275984/meatworkers-punished-over-union-material
    • millsy 21.1

      11 June 2015 at 4:13 pm

      The Talleys will stop at nothing to purge their comapnies of union members. Such behaviour borders on human rights violations.
      • b waghorn 21.1.1

        11 June 2015 at 4:29 pm

        But it gets you knighted in planet key.
        • millsy 21.1.1.1

          11 June 2015 at 4:49 pm

          Sure does….
22. McFlock 22

    11 June 2015 at 5:51 pm

    Well, now that blinglish has finally admitted he’s a wellingtonian, the crown limo with the heated seats is going to Auckland.

    Poor little woodhouse and toddy-woddy don’t deserve it, I guess…
23. Kiwiri 23

    11 June 2015 at 6:46 pm

    Lprent:

    F U D G E Y O U , fantastic, fabulous fellow!

    Now that I have your attention, ahem, … it seems like TS is very slow in showing the comment that I made and actually wanted to edit.

    Erm, ok, it seems to working fine now. Strange.
    • Chooky 23.1

      11 June 2015 at 7:10 pm

      lol

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