Open mike 11/08/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 11th, 2015 - 100 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

100 comments on “Open mike 11/08/2015 ”

  1. Paul 1

    The Herald
    What happens to a newspaper when you allow your journalists’ Facebook feeds to lead the news.

  2. cogito 2

    No police state in NZ….?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/70984990/cop-visit-for-sending-daily-emails-to-insurer

    Yet another example of people being intimidated into keeping their mouths shut. Sickening.

    • dv 2.1

      It seems that all he wanted was Southern Response to communicate.

      “They [police] told me this could be seen as harassing them [Southern Response],” he said.

      He was surprised his requests for information had been perceived as harassment as he took “tremendous care that I never lose my patience and stay polite”.

      He had sent daily emails to the company “because they never respond”.

      • Pat 2.2.1

        only if he was afro american…..and if things carry on the way they have been we will end up as dysfunctional as the US.

    • RedBaronCV 2.3

      Not a nutter either- imagine he would like an intelligent answer to a claim that is now 5 years old.
      Since when did asking a corporate to do the job they are supposed to mean they could allege they are harassing you. Does that mean corporate debt collectors are harassing people and the debt collector can expect a visit to the police?
      Funny how corporates can do what they like to the people they deal with, possibly plenty of the coercive behaviour there that Amy’s been talking of, but how dare that person answer back. And how dare they use my taxpayer money to fund this sort of trash

    • weka 2.4

      without seeing the emails it’s hard to say what’s gone on there. Could be the police being arses, could be the guy was getting intimidating, could be both.

      The photo of the man being aggressive to the insurance dude doesn’t help his claims.

      • Pat 2.4.1

        the photo is a deliberate misrepresentative shot from some years ago at a protest and has been previously explained….the photographer was either incredibly lucky or remarkably gifted to capture that particular shot.

          • weka 2.4.1.1.1

            thanks for link. I still think he is angry and intimidating (the only mitigating thing in the explanation is that he’s pointing down the road not at the insurance man. But everything else about his body language suggests a state that goes with anger or intimidation). I’m not saying he’s not entitled to be, I’m sure he is. I’m saying that that we don’t know if he was intimidating in the emails or not.

            With or without the photo, how can we know what happened here?

            • Pat 2.4.1.1.1.1

              “With or without the photo, how can we know what happened here?”

              by knowing the organisation that laid the complaint with the police….there is ample evidence of Southern Responses modus operandi if you care to google.

              • weka

                ok, so SR are shit. That still doesn’t tell us much about what happened.

                • Pat

                  SR have been in a running battle with CameronPreston for years…he has been pulling apart their (and the other ICs) press releases and progress data AND financials very effectively for years..not once have they been able to refute his numbers so now they are reverting to their usual methodology…shades of dirty politics ? He is effectively doing the work of our so called opposition

                  • weka

                    Could well be SR using their influence in dirty ways. Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Whether the police are complicit in that, I can’t tell. It’s also possible that SR and the police are dirty, and that Preston has been sending intimidating emails. This doesn’t mean he hasnt’ done other good, important work. That’s all I was getting at with my original comment.

                    • Pat

                      see how simple and effective it is….one out of context photo and a convenient story in the press (that is short on substance and heavy on innuendo) and you’re not sure, maybe he is a head case? and maybe those other things he’s been saying arn’t quite right?…..whats not quite right , no bugger it,is a downright disgrace is that the opposition parties have left this work to private individuals.

        • weka 2.4.1.2

          ..

  3. Sacha 3

    Bumbling McCully is now claiming to have received “independent” legal advice about the Saudi sheep bribe. Let’s see it then, big guy. http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/281027/labour-calls-for-saudi-sheep-deal-investigation

    • wyndham 3.1

      I think McCully is referring to advice he received from legal eagles within Mfat. Which is another matter altogether and not the same as advice from the Auditor-general or Treasury. Good try Murray !

      • freedom 3.1.1

        if only there was some official government office of law available to the crown who could have been asked for advice,
        something like a Crown Law Office

      • Sacha 3.1.2

        According to RNZ his statement mentions both “internal” and “independent” advice. Only the former can be MFAT.

    • mickysavage 3.2

      I recall a comment that the legal advice came from within MFAT. Hardly what you would call independent …

      EDIT: Wyndham bet me to it.

      • ianmac 3.2.1

        Even then was the legal advice for or against the deal? Surely McCulley would not act against the advice? Would he?

        • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1

          This is National so, yeah, you can expect that they’d act against the advice if they didn’t like it. Either that or keep asking for advice from different people until they got the advice that they wanted.

      • Sacha 3.2.2

        This seems like a development on his earlier statements.

  4. wyndham 4

    Perhaps Lyn could help me. I’m confused as to the powers of the Speaker, in particular with reference to the Saudi “affair”. Carter was donkey deep in the matter when he was minister of agriculture and the decision was made not to renew live sheep shipments whilst at the same time leading the Saudis to believe that the ban would in fact, be lifted.
    Does not the Speaker have a massive conflict of interest ? I’m thinking of the Opposition trying to elicit some answers from Key and Co. at question time. Should not perhaps Lindsay Tisch control this matter ?

    • Rodel 4.1

      Had to laugh at Matthew Hooton’s comments yesterday about the Saudi sheepgate affair. He tried to turn the issue into one of ineffectual leadership by Andrew Little if he can’t or won’t capitalise on the incompetence of McCully and the discomfort of the PM.

      The ineptitude belongs solely to Minister McCully and his boss- not the leader of the Labour party.

      • Pat 4.1.1

        and yet he was correct…if Labour cant press this to its natural conclusion they are inept.

        • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1

          That’s one conclusion. Another might be that Labour no longer has sufficient societal leverage independent of the MSM to “press this to its natural conclusion.”

    • lprent 4.2

      I don’t know. As far as I am aware the speaker is more of an internal organisational position of parliament than anything else. I have always avoided knowing too much about NZ parliament in case I start getting the urge to get too involved with it (and stop building code). But I will give my view on the role.

      But from what I have seen there are a lot of polite myths and/or guidelines that the speaker is meant to adhere to and very few hard and fast rules. A bit like what our policy reads like in fact, and for much of the same reasons. Each speaker makes their own rules based on the guides of previous speakers and whatever duties are expected of them. However they largely serve at the will of parliament in a wierd way.

      Piss too many MPs and party leaders off and they just stop working with the speaker and with the parliament and cause mayhem with the legislative process. The speaker can force things through, but they are likely to die of a heart attack or ulcers if they have to do it for any length of time.

      Since the primary role of a speaker is to protect parliament and to progress its work, they tend to be not push the limits. After all in the nature of things, eventually the government and speaker will change and the protection of the oppositions will be done by someone else.

      The history of the speaker in the english parliament after the restoration is instructive and in particular Arthur Onslow in the early 18th century.

      • Sacha 4.2.1

        Many of us who watch Question Time occasionally agree that the current Speaker is making a mockery of how the role is meant to work. His party have also proved they do not care about conflicts of interest, so I wouldn’t hold my breath for an outbreak of integrity.

  5. les 5

    looking at the 40 flags in the ‘final’…it appears there will be no change in the end.Ones I liked never even made it.

    • Puckish Rogue 5.1

      I’m quite keen on the design by Kyle Lockwood Silver Fern (black, white and blue)

      • Dialaey 5.1.1

        Nothing with a silver fern thanks. Since JK is pushing it so hard, that is good enough reason to reject it.

    • Charles 5.2

      Boooooooooring. (not you, the 40 “long listed” flags) It’s like Buck Rogers was one of the judges – bringing old ideas… into the nineties!

      I spent ten minutes of my valuable life sifting through 10,000 of them last night. I quite liked the variations on “Maori Cross” which for some reason reminded me of Ulster crosses, but not anything particularly “Maori”. To my eye, quite appealing. Then when that theme of the UNZT flag had been pushed right out to the modern/normative, it became the old flag for the Devonport Ferry Service. haha. Other short listed (my list) flags included a pencil sketch on refill of a platypus/duck type creature.

      NZ should have 2 official flags: UNZT and the Maori sovereignty flag. Never really bonded with the blue southern cross/Union Jack version. It makes me feel like that extra room in the house that has aging and uninspiring – but not offensive – wallpaper, that you should really get around to painting one summer, but no one uses the room anyway so it just gets left.

      • millsy 5.2.1

        Yes, the only legitamite alternate flag for NZ is the United Tribes Flag.

        Any other flag is a chessy corporate logo. Its no different to councils spending ratepayers money on these flash logos when their old school coat of arms is sufficent.

        • arkie 5.2.1.1

          I have been going on and on about the United Tribes Flag with my friends, I’m sure they’re sick of it but it really is the only alternative and that it hasn’t been included is egregious.

        • Brutus Iscariot 5.2.1.2

          The United Tribes Flag is a flag for Northland Maori. I really like it personally, but it won’t wash with any other iwi in the country.

    • maui 5.3

      As soon as I saw the 40 flags and a sea of stars, koru and ferns I started to think they may as well just give us one flag to choose from with all those things.

  6. Draco T Bastard 6

    The oil industry is calling for a price on carbon

    They are called fossil fuels for a reason – the oil industry has made their money digging up dinosaurs and selling them to us to power our cars. Yet even six major oil companies have realised the writing on the wall and are calling for a price on carbon. That’s right, back in June BG Group, BP, Eni, Royal Dutch Shell, Statoil and Total sent a letter to the United Nations saying:

    Our companies are already taking a number of actions to help limit emissions … For us to do more, we need governments across the world to provide us with clear, stable, long-term, ambitious policy frameworks. We believe that a price on carbon should be a key element of these frameworks.

    And they mean a real price on carbon – one that is strong enough to change behaviour. Not a carbon price that hands out free credits, two for one deals and encourages trading in cheap and nasty international credits like our Government has. By contrast France as a new climate plan which will boost their carbon tax to 56 euros by 2020. Maybe Tim Groser should get his advice from the oil companies, given he doesn’t listen to the science community. His attachment to high emissions has him standing shoulder to shoulder with Fonterra only it seems.

    There’s actually two problems with Fonterra’s continued use of coal for it’s milk drying operation:

    1. The use of coal in the face of climate change
    2. The fact that they’re still looking to produce huge amounts of milk solids despite the fact that there’s never again going to be a high enough demand from the rest of the world to pay for the costs of producing all that bloody milk

    This waste is a direct result of chasing profits and we can see it across society. We see it in supermarkets where home delivery could save up to 90% of the emissions from cars but we’re not doing it because the greedys want to make a profit from it.

    • Bill 6.1

      Well, the petroleum industry could pay for the +US$5 trillion global subsidy they currently receive from the public purse. (Oil ain’t dinosaurs btw, although you might argue that cars are from the age of dinosaurs).

      And what clearer plan is there than the instruction to stop burning the shit!

  7. half crown 7

    I am keen on the one with the Union Jack in the corner, blue background with the red stars. In other words our existing flag.
    Frankly I could not give a shit what the flag is, but what I do care about is, once again, hype by the obedient media over nothing, costing money that should be spent in other areas (but I forgot National are the natural leaders and the only ones with financial prudence) That’s a laugh..
    This is so the fucking spiv can screw us more behind a smokescreen.
    I wonder what the next miracle play for the peasantry this shower of shit will put on?

    • Olwyn 7.1

      I notice that the only existing flag in the final 40 is the sports silver-fern-on-black-background one. No Maori flag, no United Tribes flag, and the only sober-looking one, the red stars on blue without the union jack, seems unlikely to end up in the final four. So what Key is pitching for looks to be either a history-free corporate logo, or a corporate logo with sporting associations – a weightless flag open to whatever meaning he wants to give it.

    • Chooky 7.2

      +100 half crown

  8. ianmac 8

    On Backbenchers this week Trevor Mallard strongly asserted that Steven Joyce and English and Key will be choosing the last four. Certain to be the Key silver fern.

  9. Charles 9

    In an effort to reduce loading on The Herald website, I’ve re-created the basic feel of the paper here, for those who can’t do without. Feel free to link to any of the stories.

    NZ Herald – Readers Digest Edition (good for 2015 thru to 2099)

    Opinion:

    “Today something happened that challenged my views. As a senior journalist, I don’t like dealing with the outside World. However, the report came from a source I can’t easily ignore and now I have to go about finding ways to eliminate the existence of the everything. Perhaps my source was too young, smart, or heaven forbid poorer than me, or female. That’ll do it. Therefore nothing has changed and everything reinforces my present mental equilibrium that shall rule forever.”

    Politics:

    “Those dirty sneaky commies are up to something because something was said that deviated from the script I have in front of me. They want to stop us getting rich. They have no vision. They did something worse, fifteen years ago. Not our fault, we are just the government. Someone else says something in reply, but it makes no sense. The end.”

    Sport:

    “So this guy, right, he has some girlfriends in the hockey team and his team want to pay him to not drink so much. In July he changed codes and now the score is 25/46.”

    Rugby:

    “All black shirts not getting any whiter, says laundress. Despite claims to the contrary, the new jerseys are doing the job of appearing to be Dark Black. Earlier complaints to the Rugby Advisory Board stated that spectators were concerned their national identity was being undermined by rough handling during laundry service. Sources inside the locker room say most jerseys dissolve in water and are replaced on a game-by-game basis. A man with a beard wearing a white shirt was mistaken for an All Black, and later, ignored.”

    Lifestyle:

    “You know, too much of a bad thing is actually good, a recent report says. If you don’t have too much, and only a miniscule amount, then look at his picture of a woman doing pilates for no reason.”

    National:

    “Won’t someone save the children? Yes, The Save the Children Fund charity truck drove into the side of a community building last week. The owners of the house were unavailable for comment, but neighbours say they are nice people and that they only throw stones at stray dogs. The driver is fine, and Police had cake and tea afterwards.”

    Business:

    “My furrowed brow should prove that employees are the bane of our existence. Right now, in Hong Kong, brokers notes are being used as cashflow against the advice of EurAtom. Austerity now, and after innovative re-mortgaging, will stabilise the see-saw effect of income protection within the OECD. It’s hard to argue with that, and I don’t say it’ll work, but the TPPA will go some ways to improving the overall feel of the piece I just wrote. Greece. Here is a picture of a graph.”

    World:

    “A large whale has been sighted off the coast of Iceland. Large whales live in the sea. Small ones are called Whale Children, but often they end up dead or eaten by villagers. You should be concerned. Here is a link to our source: a comments section on a Facebook page.”

    • weka 9.1

      Please, submit this as a guest post!

      http://thestandard.org.nz/contribute-post/

    • Molly 9.2

      Letters to the Editor:

      Dear Editor

      I wish certain members of the public who have no visible professional sports prowess, or legitimate business acumen, would stop writing letters to the editor.

      As the number one publication in NZ, the Herald should at least stop printing these missives and consign them to the round filing bin in the corner. Need I remind you, they get a chance every three years to have their democratic say, and anyway they are all just left-wing screaming commie conspiracy bastards and should fund their own national newspaper. The reason they don’t is because the market.

      Signed,
      by someone who could’ve been an All Black but was busy failing a few businesses to get to be where I am today.

      (PS. See you at the Cabinet Club on Thursday).

    • ianmac 9.3

      Jolly good Charles. 🙂

    • maui 9.4

      Brilliant! You’re now the new editor.

    • rhinocrates 9.5

      🙂

    • rhinocrates 9.6

      Charlie Brooker on the “serious” newzak:

      • adam 9.6.1

        Thanks rhinocrates, that was awesome!

      • ianmac 9.6.2

        Great rhino.
        Sounds familiar. Cut to an empty street in the dark where yesterday some un-named fellow threw stones at a cat. Reporter says it was near here that some fellow threw stones at a cat. Cut to a neighbour who says she never expected anything like that around here as her neighbours are actually Scottish. There you have it and now back to the studio.

  10. Morrissey 10

    “Is this the end of LOL?”
    Breakfast television in New Zealand is nothing more than a bad joke

    Television One Breakfast, TV3 Paul Henry

    These are the impressions I gained from a quick perusal of both channels this morning. To be fair, I did not subject myself to the ordeal of watching all or even most of the morning’s programs, so it is possible that I missed something intelligent, thoughtful and stimulating. But, based on what I did manage to see this morning, and also on what I’ve seen in the past, these programs are banal at best [1], an insult to the intelligence on most days [2], and occasionally outrageous and revolting [3].

    Shortly after seven o’clock, both channels are filled with the lugubrious mug of Professor John Burrows, the unknown minor academic plucked from obscure retirement to head the all star cast (Julie Christie, Kate Di Goldi, some old soldier and some sports people) that comprises John Key’s “Flag Consideration Panel.” The alternative flags have been whittled down to the final forty, but nobody cares—least of all Rawdon Christie’s offsider Ali Pugh, who openly expresses her disinterest in the farce. As always, the old trougher Burrows has nothing interesting to say, on either channel.

    Some time after 7 o’clock, Paul Henry checks in with the woman in the “tech bunker” who monitors social media for him. Occasionally this segment is quite amusing—those occasions are when she spurns Henry’s ham-fisted attempts to flirt with her. Usually, however, this is nothing more than two minutes of chat about the most mind-numbing trivia. Today the topic is another bit of Facebook inanity: what was so good about the 80s? For a moment, Henry gets serious and solemnly intones: “Back in the 1980s, you didn’t need signs saying ‘Hot’ on a cup of coffee.” Since 1994, the story of the McDonald’s scalding case has been part of the rhetorical arsenal for the extreme right. It’s a distorted, extreme misconstruing of what actually happened, but that doesn’t matter to political ideologues like Paul Henry. [4]

    8:20 a.m. TV3 Paul Henry’s daily Panel—just like Jim Mora’s Panel on National Radio, only shorter. This morning, the guests are TV3 reporter Sarah Hall and a dapper fellow named Julian Andrews, who looks and talks like one of those “creatives” from an advertising agency, but is billed grandly as a “business strategist.” The first topic is the future (or non-future) of rail in New Zealand. Henry, of course, reiterates yet again how he is dead-set opposed to rail, Julian Andrews mutters something about the public good, and Sarah Hall looks perplexed, frowns to show how troubled she is, and then says: “I’m just glad I’m not in Treasury!” Then the conversation takes a bizarre yet optimistic turn….

    JULIAN ANDREWS: Do we really want 27,000 more trucks on the roads? Anyway, self-drive cars are going to render all this a non-issue!

    PAUL HENRY: Tell Len Brown about driverless cars! I’ve tried to!

    JULIAN ANDREWS: I was talking the other day to someone from Singularity University about driverless c—-

    PAUL HENRY: What?!? “Singularity University”!!?!? Where’s THAT?

    JULIAN ANDREWS: In Silicon Valley.

    PAUL HENRY: Oh of COURSE it’s in Silicon Valley!

    SARAH HALL: Ha ha ha ha ha!

    Also at the table, silent throughout this scintillating conversation, are newsreader Hillary Barry and sports guy Jim Kayes. They both strain to maintain their rictus smiles.

    Meanwhile, at 8:27 a.m. on Television One….

    RAWDON CHRISTIE: Is this the end of “LOL”? Next up, the modern language merry-go-round!

    [1] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09102014/#comment-906840
    http://thestandard.org.nz/tuwhera-mike-06022014/#comment-769085

    [2] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10102014/#comment-907745

    [3] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20122012/#comment-564961
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27052015/#comment-1021090

    [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCkL9UlmCOE

  11. b waghorn 11

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/70978250/Why-railways-are-valuable-to-New-Zealand
    Trains are good !,its a pity we’re being governed buy a bunch of morons who can’t work it out.

    • weka 11.1

      Interesting article. Anyone know what this means?

      We will be looking for other savings too, and other ways of increasing revenue. We have, for example, property that has for too long returned only a peppercorn rental or none at all. The Government, on behalf of taxpayers, should be getting a better return on that investment.

      • Sacha 11.1.1

        Foreign ‘investors’ can build more apartments alongside rail lines?

      • b waghorn 11.1.2

        I know there’s a lot of rail corridor land being grazed around the country but have know idea what they pay for it.

        • half crown 11.1.2.1

          Nah you are all wrong The Fucking spiv wants them for Cycle Tracks

        • weka 11.1.2.2

          I wondered if it was old yards land etc, but would have thought they’d have sold that off a long time ago.

  12. Sabine 13

    well, if people would just continue to have interest in their lives and properties, mortgage sales would obviously not happen.

    ” “People lose interest in their properties, they lose interest in their lives and the bank senses that, and that’s when you have distressed sales,” Harcourts agent and mortgagee specialist David Savery said.

    let me translate that for ya’ll:

    Suckers lost their jobs, their gonna loose their houses, their lives and the banks are gonna claw back and out of them what they can. And then when the last drop of blood was squeezed out of the looser banks are gonna foreclose, but its all good says Harcourts agent and mortgagee specialist David Savey, cause we are gonna take the property and sell it to another sucker in no time, for a hefty fee of course.
    Bank and mortgagee specialists laughing all the way to the bank. Sucker is off to live in a ditch with the missus and kids.

    • Sabine 13.1

      this was supposedly a response to Incognito at comment Nr. 11

      doh
      doh
      doh

      • Incognito 13.1.1

        I got your comment; don’t be too hard on yourself – one “doh” would have sufficed 😉

  13. adam 14

    Old but good.

  14. adam 15

    “The Republican Hunger Games.”

  15. Draco T Bastard 16

    Is anybody really surprised by this?

    Earlier in the week the government finally announced the appointment of the Stakeholder Advisory Group required under the Open Government Partnership, with not a former National MP in sight! It also announced that it was beginning public consultation on its Midterm Self-Assessment Report, which is due at the end of September. But there’s a hitch: they’re doing it wrong.

    I assume that it has to do with this government being the most dishonest and least open government we’ve had in a long time as shown by their use of manipulating the OIA for political gain while trying so hard not to actually answer so many of those OIAs.

  16. Penny Bright 17

    URGENT! TPPA – WALK AWAY! ACTION!

    If you’re concerned about the TPPA – here’s a petition that you can sign?

    Another 12,000 signatures are being sought before it is presented to Parliament tomorrow.

    http://www.actionstation.org.nz/tppa

    (Please feel free to sign and share …. )

    Penny Bright

  17. Draco T Bastard 18

    And, according to the NZHerald, the Greens are now the government.

  18. Incognito 19

    The refusal by Anne Tolley “to treat vulnerable newborns as “lab rats” by sitting back for two years to see if they were abused” generated a long discussion thread here on TS.

    Obviously, child abuse is a huge problem in our society, which sadly won’t go away any time soon. This is one reason why I want pick up this topic again.

    The other reason is that a few days later a very good (IMO) opinion piece appeared by Associate Professor Time Dare who had undertaken the ethical analysis of the canned study Anne Tolley’s ‘lab rats’ call inflammatory political rhetoric. I have not seen any reference to this here in TS.

    A couple of days later again another good perspective appeared CYF software study raised same ethical dilemmas as medical trials, academic says, which raised another red flag, i.e. “big data”, that can turn the most sensible person into a raving radical anti-government berserker.

    For good measure, here’s a link to the material (a lot!) on the MSD website, incl. Tim Dare’s Ethical Review Predictive Modelling. [Note the typo in the hyperlink]

    A third reason to post this is that this is just another example of how any much-needed debate in this country of ours is avoided or killed off. Not only lay-people, i.e. ordinary Kiwis like you and I, but also experts and the likes are dismissed offhand if it does not suit the narrative or framing.

    This is worrisome because not only do experts provide expert knowledge, but they also tend to use less ambiguous language although this may not always be evident to the general public. Particularly science relies on unequivocal and unambiguous (AKA neutral and objective) language; the ultimate example of this is mathematics that relies on precise semantic meanings, etc.

    Often politically-sensitive debate, which can include almost anything, sounds more like a Babylonic Confusion of Tongues, which is why the simplification of meanings (!) through input from scientists is often a helpful if not necessary contribution.

    It seems to me that the powers that be do everything to preserve the Status Quo. By dismissing or even excluding scientific experts they leave free reign to the Confusion of Tongues, which diminishes any chances of reaching meaningful consensus or compromise, and solutions, i.e. ‘mission accomplished’.

    • McFlock 19.1

      some interesting links there, thanks.

      I have real suspicions about the ability of MSD to avoid turning the “predictive model” into a method of abuse.

    • Incognito 19.2

      In the same long discussion thread here on TS some interesting comments were made on correlation vs. causation.

      An old well-known example of this is the correlation between people carrying matches in their pocket and the chance of these people getting lung cancer. Obviously, matches in one’s pocket, or anywhere else for that matter, do not cause lung cancer but smoking does!

      • dv 19.2.1

        There is a strong correlation between humans with long hair and those that get pregnant..

        So ……

        • McFlock 19.2.1.1

          indeed – less indirect causation than the matches example.

          • Incognito 19.2.1.1.1

            If you smoke after sex there will be correlation between having matches or a lighter and …

            • McFlock 19.2.1.1.1.1

              lol
              My favourite was someone who did a comparison of the European migration routes of storks and birth rates nine months later.

              Found a positive correlation 🙂

            • Morrissey 19.2.1.1.1.2

              I used to be a packet a day man.

        • Incognito 19.2.1.2

          There was a strange yet unexplained anomaly in that correlation in the 60s; the average long-haired human had a zero chance of getting pregnant!? Rumour is that Donald Trump donned is signature ‘hair style’ in that period once he realised it did not involve “bleeding” as there happened to be another odd correlation with long hair that has puzzled scientists ever since. The correlation between Bigfoot sightings and Donald Trump visits is near perfect; the latter also has a near-perfect record of putting his Big Foot into his Big Mouth. Sorry, how did we get here again?

  19. Gosman 21

    I guess this is one way to ensure inequality is eliminated. Pay the most talented individuals next to nothing

    “I’m earning the same as someone who works in McDonald’s,” said 28-year-old math professor Anthonny Arias in the city of Merida, an expert in mathematical logic who makes the equivalent of $4 per week at the black market exchange rate.”

    http://www.businessinsider.com/headhunters-are-taking-advantage-of-venezuelas-decaying-economy-2015-8?IR=T

    Stinking Maths professors. Always lording it over the rest of society. They need to be taken down a peg or several /sarc

    • Gangnam Style 21.1

      http://www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemcneal/a-paramedics-rant-about-why-burger-flippers-should-earn-the#.wn6rDXjnBl This might interest you…

      “Fast food workers in NY just won a $15/hr wage.
      I’m a paramedic. My job requires a broad set of skills: interpersonal, medical, and technical skills, as well as the crucial skill of performing under pressure. I often make decisions on my own, in seconds, under chaotic circumstances, that impact people’s health and lives. I make $15/hr.”

      • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1

        Yes, it’s amazing how people complain about people worse off they are rather than complaining about the capitalists keeping them poor.

    • Colonial Viper 21.2

      Gosman – math professors aren’t worth jack shit unless they are good enough to be hired by Wall Street.

      The one you quote is clearly too stupid to realise why he is being so poorly paid and he probably doesn’t even have the smarts to belong to a union.

    • ropata 21.3

      Gosman if that was meant to be a swipe at socialism in Venezuela, you get a D- for poor effort. Perhaps you might care to expound on the glories of capitalism in the USA and China, where manipulating and hiding the real economy has become an art form.

  20. Smilin 22

    iSN’T amazing Gets some guts Key doesn’t have to table the Nat govt documents on the Saudi sheep deal and can stand and lie about the Labour party in parliament and cant be made to tell the truth
    Theres a Song for Labour in that TELL THE TRUTH TELL ME WHO’S BEEN FOOLING U
    John Key who else -try adding that to your rockstar economy John mite make all your BS lip sync lies crash your BS crosby Textor software

  21. Morrissey 23

    Which is worse—One’s crap 7 o’clock show or TV3’s?
    Seven Sharp (Television One) and Story (TV3), Tuesday 11 August 2015

    Tonight’s Seven Sharp started off with a brief item about Orlando Fox News host John Brown walking off the set, refusing to talk any more about the Kardashians. The story, obviously much too frivolous for an intellectual forum such as Fox News, concerned Kylie Jenner’s new pet rabbit Bruce….
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/71014190/newsreader-cant-take-any-more-kardashians

    Then it was back to the Seven Sharp hosts, one of whom was highly amused. “You can understand his frustration!” giggled Toni Street. Next to her, Mike Hosking affected his default expression of disdain and disinterest.

    Meanwhile, across on TV3, Heather Du Plessis-Allan and Duncan Garner—she calls him, with toe-culrling over-familiarity, “Duncs”—continued the horrible process, begun last night, of dying in front of an ever-diminishing audience. These two presenters are the most unlikeable pairing since Sarah Ferguson and Justin Timberlake. Apparently this dog of a program got one hundred thousand curious Seven Sharp viewers to switch over last night; I doubt that most of them will be back this evening.

    By the way, Du Plessis was also involved in the first ever Seven Sharp, and she was crap there as well. The role of the unfunny conceited prick was at that time filled by Greg Boyed….

    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-04022013/#comment-584162

    • Watched a little bit of Story, Moz. An interview with a security guard who only had anecdotal stories to tell, followed by the hosts qualifying even that dribble by saying it wasn’t a specific security company they’d previously featured, the guy hadn’t worked in the prisoner guarding industry for years etc, etc.

      Also noticed that Dunkin’ gets to lead the items, but then he is a man, so fair enough.

      btw, did you post a comment this morning about breakfast TV? It’s in the spam queue, probably too many links. I can let it out, if you want.

      • Morrissey 23.1.1

        Thanks very much te reo. I’ve just posted the same item, with a different title. I wonder if you’d use the one I’ve just sent in. Sorry about the links—-I’ll keep them to a minimum in future.

      • whateva next? 23.1.2

        I try to give new things a chance, people have to earn a living but…so far I would have to say it would be better called “Sorry” than Story. Have to admit I am holding it up to Campbell Live, which they have said they don’t want to be compared to, but does Mediaworks really believe the public want to be titillated rather than invigorated?

  22. Morrissey 24

    “Is this the end of LOL?”
    NZ has possibly the two worst breakfast TV programmes in the world

    Breakfast (Television One), Paul Henry (TV3)
    Tuesday 11 August 2015

    dire /ˈdʌɪə/ adjective of a very poor quality, dreadful, terrible

    Following are the impressions I gained from a quick perusal of both channels this morning. To be fair, I did not subject myself to the ordeal of watching all or even most of the morning’s programs, so it is possible that I missed something intelligent, thoughtful and stimulating. But, based on what I did manage to see this morning, and also on what I’ve seen in the past, these programs are banal at best [1], an insult to the intelligence on most days [2], and occasionally outrageous and revolting [3].

    Shortly after seven o’clock, both channels are filled with the lugubrious mug of the Professor John Burrows, the unknown minor academic plucked from obscure retirement to head the all star cast (Julie Christie, Kate Di Goldi, some old soldier and some sports people) that comprises John Key’s “Flag Consideration Panel.” The alternative flags have been whittled down to the final forty, but nobody cares—least of all Rawdon Christie’s offsider Ali Pugh, who openly expresses her disinterest in the farce. As always, the old trougher Burrows has nothing interesting to say, on either channel.

    Some time after 7 o’clock, Paul Henry checks in with the woman in the “tech bunker” who monitors social media for him. Occasionally this segment is quite amusing—those occasions are when she spurns Henry’s ham-fisted attempts to flirt with her. Usually, however, this is nothing more than two minutes of chat about the most mind-numbing trivia. Today the topic is another bit of Facebook inanity: what was so good about the 80s? For a moment, Henry gets serious and solemnly intones: “Back in the 1980s, you didn’t need signs saying ‘Hot’ on a cup of coffee.” Since 1994, the story of the McDonald’s scalding case has been part of the rhetorical arsenal for the extreme right. It’s a distorted, extreme misconstruing of what actually happened, but that doesn’t matter to political ideologues like Paul Henry. [4]

    8:20 a.m. TV3 Paul Henry’s daily Panel—this is like Jim Mora’s Panel on National Radio, only shorter. This morning, the guests are TV3 reporter Sarah Hall and a dapper fellow named Julian Andrews, who looks and talks like a “creative” from an advertising agency, though he is billed grandly as a “business strategist.” The first topic is the future (or non-future) of rail in New Zealand. Henry, of course, reiterates how he is dead-set opposed to rail, Julian Andrews mutters something about the public good, and Sarah Hall looks perplexed, frowns to show how troubled she is, and then says: “I’m just glad I’m not in Treasury!” Then the conversation takes a bizarre yet optimistic turn….

    JULIAN ANDREWS: Do we really want 27,000 more trucks on the roads? Anyway, self-drive cars are going to render all this a non-issue!
    PAUL HENRY: Tell Len Brown about driverless cars! I’ve tried to!
    JULIAN ANDREWS: I was talking the other day to someone from Singularity University about driverl—-
    PAUL HENRY: What?!? “Singularity University”!!?!? Where’s THAT?
    JULIAN ANDREWS: In Silicon Valley.
    PAUL HENRY: Oh of COURSE it’s in Silicon Valley!
    SARAH HALL: Ha ha ha ha ha!

    Also at the table, silent throughout this scintillating conversation, are newsreader Hillary Barry and sports guy Jim Kayes. They both strain to maintain their rictus smiles.

    Meanwhile, at 8:27 a.m. on Television One….

    RAWDON CHRISTIE: Is this the end of “LOL”? Next up, the modern language merry-go-round!”

    [1] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09102014/#comment-906840
    http://thestandard.org.nz/tuwhera-mike-06022014/#comment-769085

    [2] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10102014/#comment-907745

    [3] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20122012/#comment-564961
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27052015/#comment-1021090

    [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCkL9UlmCOE

  23. Chooky 25

    So why are our troops there again?

    ‘US ex-intelligence chief on ISIS rise: It was ‘a willful Washington decision’

    https://www.rt.com/usa/312050-dia-flynn-islamic-state/

    “The US didn’t interfere with the rise of anti-government jihadist groups in Syria that finally degenerated into Islamic State, claims the former head of America’s Defense Intelligence Agency, backing a secret 2012 memo predicting their rise….

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