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Open mike 11/09/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 11th, 2015 - 80 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

80 comments on “Open mike 11/09/2015 ”

  1. miravox 1

    Washington Supreme Court expels charter schools from state public school system

    The charter school movement has been expelled from Washington state’s public education system, with a Supreme Court ruling late Friday that the privately run schools are not public schools under the state’s constitution…

    [seems fair]

    …Charter school proponents have three options, all of them “long shots,” said Bill Keim, executive director of the Washington Association of School Administrators. The first would be asking the Supreme Court to reconsider its ruling. The parties have until September 24 to final that motion, before the court ruling becomes final.

    The second option was a special legislative session. Third was asking local billionaire Bill Gates, one of the nation’s top charter school benefactors—spending at least $440 million—to write a check to keep the charters open until the legislature acts. “The downside is that would re-enforce that they are private schools,” Keim said.

    Mr Gates could always transfer the funds to public schools I guess. But probs the legislative session option will help the private people taking public funds, as always it seems.

  2. esoteric pineapples 2

    Flag advisory group has just four hours to give their opinion – http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71941611/panel-advising-on-new-flag-cobbled-together-advice-from-designers

    • Lanthanide 2.1

      No, the Flag Consideration Panel got 4 hours of input from assorted designers.

      They will have spent significantly longer than 4 hours to cut the list of 40 down to 4 finalists.

      They performed trademark and copyright searches on each of the 40 designs for example, which resulted in 1 of the original 40 shortlisted being ruled invalid and removed from further consideration.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2

      Well, according to the economists it’s all a farce:

      Things have not gone to plan. None of the four designs has gripped the public. A fifth design, known as the Red Peak option, composed of triangles and supposed to evoke Maori mythology, has acquired a following on social media. So far the government is having none of it. Mr Key says that he is not going back to Parliament to accommodate the fifth design, though an electoral-law expert has helpfully suggested that all the government need do is substitute it for one of the chosen four.

      …and by many voters who find it distasteful that their country is being rebranded like a sagging brand of detergent.

      Yeah, I think Key’s ‘bright’ idea of changing the flag probably isn’t bringing him as much joy as he expected it would.

  3. rhinocrates 3

    The smug, flat-arsed cowards and careerists who have turned Labour into a beige tory party should take note of this:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/most-voters-would-welcome-a-more-radical-socialist-labour-party-new-poll-finds-10494366.html

    It’s what it says on the tin – contrary to orthodox ‘wisdom’, in the UK, a Labour party that is a real alternative, not an incompetent clone of the tories would resonate with voters. The same is likely true here.

    Instead of fuckwits blathering about making the 90-day law “fairer” (for whom?) or getting a TPPA deal that’s “better” (in the way that ebola’s better than leukaemia?), we could have a real Labour Party.

    Instead we have frauds like Grant Fucking Robertson who can’t even bring himself to say “socialist” for fear that the Rotarians he sucks up to won’t buy his lattes for him anymore.

    • The lost sheep 3.1

      Where is the groundswell of support for change within the Labour Party rhino?
      Where are the thinkers?
      Where are the future leaders?

      Do you see any hope of Labour regaining it’s mojo, or do you think it’s fucked, and the Left requires a new political foundation Party to regain government?

      • Bill 3.1.1

        The potential groundswell is in exactly the same place as it was in other places prior to quite simple thoughts and ideas being articulated by likely (not certain) future leaders.

        NZ Labour has no depth because the legacy of ’84 was break-away parties that ‘died on the vine’….with a little help from ‘liberal’ toxins, courtesy of NZ Labour.

        That means that there is no SNP – a major party – capable of occupying ground abandoned by Labour. And there are no Jeremy Corbyn’s who have bided their time on the back benches working for their constituents these past 30 years.

        Labour will change – slowly. Mere ‘Johnny come lately’ adopters of what will already have transpired across the left in the English speaking world.

      • rhinocrates 3.1.2

        A big part of the problem is capture. If they’re constantly being offered the hospitality of Sky City, then they’re going to feel more of a reflexive concern for Sky City execs than we filthy proles. Sky City knows this and that arsewipe Goff wants their support in his mayoral campaign, so hey-ho, he gets a nice seat in their corporate box to watch allegedly grown adults chase a leather balloon around a field.

        Parliament for a lot of MPs is a networking shop where they can scout out positions in corporate boards and their attitude increasingly becomes, to paraphrase JFK, asking not what they can do for you, but what you can do for them.

        The filthy proles I guess have to keep buttonholing their representatives at least. Invite them to events and then make sure that instead of treating it as another opportunity for self aggrandisement, make sure they sit down, shut up and listen. Remind them who they work for. Remind them who’s going to be knocking on doors for them come election time – or staying at home. Humiliate them for taking favours. Ask them embarrassing questions and publicise their evasions. Never give them a free pass just because they hum a bar of The Red Flag once a year.

        Little at least knows it’s “not a good look” to be seen dining with charter school boards, but he’s been pressured by men in suits into stabbing young workers in the back over 90 days fire at will. Someone needs to elbow their way to the front of the queue and remind him whose party he’s in.

        We don’t have money and corporate credit cards, but we can keep the pressure on them, tolerate no bullshit, call it out when it gushes.

    • Ad 3.2

      I just wish they’d just finish this fucking British Labour leadership vote.

      We can only tell the reality of public opinion once the new leader is in and we have a good tracking poll series.

      • swordfish 3.2.1

        Over the last couple of months, Corbyn has emerged as the front-runner not only among Labour members/affiliates but also among both Labour voters and the British electorate as a whole (according to all the polls). That extraordinary wave of Corbymania propelling him from outsider to red hot favourite within a space of just a few weeks. It’s been a remarkable revitalisation of Labour’s core values and brilliant (for those of us opposed to tweedledee / tweedledum politics) to see.

        But no one should be under any illusion that if he does win the leadership (and the purging of Corbyn-supporters and non-delivery of 10s of thousands of voting papers continues to concern me on that score), then he will come in for a total shitstorm of smears, abuse and ridicule from the MSM and Blairite/Tory Establishment.

        We’ve already seen the hysteria from a series of shell-shocked Blairite Grandees paraded before us by a complicit media. And, of course, the all-too-predictable anti-Semitic smears emanating from Britain’s Israel-Right-or-Wrong Lobby and its fellow-travellers, along with New Labour’s US-Right-or-Wrong ”Atlanticists’ (one of whom, you approvingly cited in yesterdays Open Mike).

        But you aint seen nothing yet !

        It’ll be relentless and may very well destroy the Corbyn leadership. Quite possibly an initial poll bounce over the first few weeks, followed by an all-out campaign of MSM vitriol that sees Labour support fall, possibly even plummet.

        Then, again, I’m not entirely ruling out a backlash against the media from Labour supporters and a reasonable slice of the broader public. Particularly (as the Lord Ashcroft poll cited by rhinocrates suggests), from the Labour-leaning faction of Ukip supporters. It’s clear to me from digging deep through UK polls of the last 2 years that Ukip voters (in stark contrast to the Party leadership) are substantially on the Left in terms of public ownership, anti-austerity. Like most NZF voters here, they’re socially-conservative Left.

        It’s also clear that an overwhelming majority of Labour voters (and Greens and more than a few Lib Dems) support the sort of policy platform that Corbyn is offering.

        • Bill 3.2.1.1

          If the establishment follows its predictable course of ‘Project Fear’ (redux), then the backlash will be a tsunami.

          Yet again, and I’m sorry if this bores peeps, I’m looking at ‘the establishment’ fortunes in Scotland…the SNP, with almost all media continuing to lambast them, are now around 60% with an election about 12 months away.

          The only thing that will soften support for the SNP is a UK Labour led by Corbyn.

          • swordfish 3.2.1.1.1

            That’s what I’m hoping, Bill.

            It’s a good sign that, if anything, the high profile MSM intervention from Blair/Brown/Straw/and the particularly vile Mandelson (admittedly in Blair he’s got some pretty stiff competition for that title)…has served to propel Corbyn even higher in the polls (and among the membership). All the Blairite and MSM hysteria appears to have been counter-productive.

            I’m hoping this momentum, this desire for a thorough-going revitalisation of not just the Labour Party but UK politics as a whole, will continue to sweep through the roughly 50% of voters (Labour, Green, Lib Dem, Ukip and even a few Tories) who consider themselves primarily Left-of-Centre on most substantive issues.

            But I never discount the ability of the establishment media to influence public opinion. And I remain concerned that the Scots electorate may be unique (within Britain, apart from certain urban enclaves in the North of England, London and the Welsh Valleys) in the sheer strength of its social democratic values (partly forged, certainly reinforced, by the Thatcherite onslaught in the 80s/early 90s).

  4. Tony Veitch 4

    TPPA has not gone away – it’s merely dropped out of the MSM – the corporate media – surprise, surprise!

    There is intense pressure to sign the TPP asap – but why the hurry? It has been on the negotiating table for six years or so. Obama has received ‘fast-track’ powers to push the TPP through before the presidential elections.

    The point made in the first of these short videos is that Obama has been bought and paid for by big corporations in the US. To gain funds for his campaigns he made promises to his corporate backers – now he has to deliver on those promises!

    Which begs the question – how much did our own PM cost? What promises has he made to corporate backers? What is Groser going to get out of the deal?

    The point made in the second short clip is making the legislators ‘own’ the document. It must be debated by parliament – it can’t be modified in any way – but our parliamentarians can be held responsible. We need to be prepared to let them know that we will read the provisions of the TPPA – and if we don’t like them – which we will not – then we will hold them responsible!

    Is there anything good about the TPP? Free trade has not been good for New Zealand. We are heading for a low income economy (if it isn’t already here) with a super rich 1 or 2 per-cent and the vast majority the working poor! Free trade hasn’t worked to create jobs in America either – see the short clip below!

    We need to keep up the anti-TPPA pressure, and not let this monster slip past us in the grey dawn of a totally neoliberal future!

  5. weka 5

    Take back the news! The new Scoop.

    http://takebackthenews.nz/

    Alastair Thompson ‏@althecat

    http://takebackthenews.nz #takebackthenews

  6. Molly 6

    Naomi Klein has made Chapter 20 of her book available for reproduction, and for those who haven’t read “This Changes Everything” it is worth the time.

    Just posting the first half of the introduction.

    The full introduction might be worth a post in itself… (moderators?)

    Naomi Klein: from naomiklein.org 28 August 2015

    For me, the road to This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate begins in a very specific time and place. The time was exactly ten years ago. The place was New Orleans, in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The road in question was flooded and littered with bodies.

    Today I am posting, for the first time, the entire section on Hurricane Katrina from my last book, The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism. Rereading the chapter 10 years after the events transpired, I am struck most by this fact: the same military equipment and contractors used against New Orleans’ Black residents have since been used to militarize police across the United States, contributing to the epidemic of murders of unarmed Black men and women. That is one way in which the Disaster Capitalism Complex perpetuates itself and protects its lucrative market.

    This material is free for reproduction.

    From the Introduction:

    I met Jamar Perry in September 2005, at the big Red Cross shelter in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Dinner was being doled out by grinning young Scientologists, and he was standing in line. I had just been busted for talking to evacuees without a media escort and was now doing my best to blend in, a white Canadian in a sea of African-American Southerners. I dodged into the food line behind Perry and asked him to talk to me as if we were old friends, which he kindly did.

    Born and raised in New Orleans, he’d been out of the flooded city for a week. He looked about seventeen but told me he was twenty-three. He and his family had waited forever for the evacuation buses; when they didn’t arrive, they had walked out in the baking sun. Finally they ended up here, a sprawling convention centre, normally home to pharmaceutical trade shows and “Capital City Carnage: The Ultimate in Steel Cage Fighting,” now jammed with two thousand cots and a mess of angry, exhausted people being patrolled by edgy National Guard soldiers just back from Iraq.

    The news racing around the shelter that day was that Richard Baker, a prominent Republican Congressman from this city, had told a group of lobbyists, “We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn’t do it, but God did.” Joseph Canizaro, one of New Orleans’ wealthiest developers, had just expressed a similar sentiment: “I think we have a clean sheet to start again. And with that clean sheet we have some very big opportunities.” All that week the Louisiana State Legislature in Baton Rouge had been crawling with corporate lobbyists helping to lock in those big opportunities: lower taxes, fewer regulations, cheaper workers and a “smaller, safer city”—which in practice meant plans to level the public housing projects and replace them with condos. Hearing all the talk of “fresh starts” and “clean sheets,” you could almost forget the toxic stew of rubble, chemical outflows and human remains just a few miles down the highway.

    Over at the shelter, Jamar could think of nothing else. “I really don’t see it as cleaning up the city. What I see is that a lot of people got killed uptown. People who shouldn’t have died.”

    He was speaking quietly, but an older man in line in front of us overheard and whipped around. “What is wrong with these people in Baton Rouge? This isn’t an opportunity. It’s a goddamned tragedy. Are they blind?”

    A mother with two kids chimed in. “No, they’re not blind, they’re evil. They see just fine.”

    • Molly 6.1

      Apologies. Excerpt is from “The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism” published in 2007.

      • weka 6.1.1

        Klein’s talk last week in Sydney is worth a watch too. This video is an hour, but the actual talk is maybe 30 or 40 mins. She’s talking about climate change and why critiquing capitalism is so important. She also makes the links with the refugee crises.

        At the start she calls out some of the people involved in the event organisation’s board and their influence on border policy. A great example of emotional and political intelligence that reminds us that it’s women like Klein who should be in charge of things.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.2

      The story is typical of the lop-sided state that Bush built: a weak, underfunded, ineffective public sector on the one hand, and a parallel richly funded corporate infrastructure on the other. When it comes to paying contractors, the sky is the limit; when it comes to financing the basic functions of the state, the coffers are empty.

      Sounds just like what National has been and is doing to our own state sector – lot of money for the private corporations to bring in huge profits while the essential services are run down.

  7. weka 7

    Russel Norman is leaving parliament. Marama Davidson is going to be an MP!

    https://blog.greens.org.nz/2015/09/11/introducing-our-newest-green-mp/

    Many thanks to Russell Norman for all his hard work under what have been pretty difficult situations at times.

    Marama Davidson, 41

    Ngāti Porou, Te Rarawa, Ngāpuhi

    Marama Davidson lives in Manurewa, Auckland and has six children. She comes to Parliament after a ten year career at the Human Rights Commission.

    Recently Marama worked part-time as the Chief Panelist for the Glenn Inquiry into Domestic Violence and Child Abuse.

    Her involvement in the inquiry has placed violence at the forefront of her political radar.

    Marama stood for the Green Party in the 2013 Ikaroa Rāwhiti by-election and then in Tāmaki Makaurau for the 2014 General Election.

    She also has a powerful presence on social media where she blogs and writes about social justice, Māori politics and women’s rights.

    • Molly 7.1

      Snap weka! (Deleted duplicate…)

      Good news about Marama Davidson though. She is a very articulate and informed person, and will be a welcome addition.

  8. aerobubble 8

    Termite, collectively, alter the global climate. Every species on the planet alters the environment around to better suit themselves, though not always for their best. So this gormless old fat of a media mogal, whose business is peddling power, and using wedg issues, no matter how contrived and stupid, goes uncriticized by the free market. Believing as he does the the great unwashed his media empir sells to could not also fundamentally collectively alter the global ecosystem. Its just a crazy idea, humans capable of altering climate, humbug. A communist having recognized the evil of capitalism could have not done more to destroy, ridicule and waste capitalisms good effects.

  9. Sabine 9

    pathetic and sad are the words that come to mind to describe this whole sham

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11511139

    ” One of the Flag Consideration Panel members who helped to pick the final four options sits on a government board where her job is to help promote the Fern Mark logo.

    Julie Christie is an advisory board member on New Zealand Story, a NZ Trade and Enterprise body which approves the use of the Fern Mark image used on the black-and-white version of the final four flag options.

    She declared a conflict of interest at the same meeting at which the flag panel was told the NZ Story board had cleared the path for the Fern Mark to be used on a new flag. ”

    snip……..

    “The OIA papers show Ms Christie declared two conflicts of interest at a July 30 meeting of the flag panel. She declared her link to the Fern Mark and as a member of the commercial committee of the NZ Rugby Union.

    The minutes said “the panel noted these conflicts of interest as minor”.

  10. arkie 10

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/283904/beware-of-akl-house-prices-english

    “Finance Minister Bill English says the Auckland housing market is on fire, and people need to be careful not to get burned when prices fall.

    “Mr English said when house prices rise as fast as they have in Auckland, they do fall. He said growth may slow down, and some people may have borrowed too much.

    Reserve Bank governor Graeme Wheeler said two years ago investors accounted for 33 percent of transactions in the Auckland housing market, but now they made up 41 percent.
    Mr Wheeler said in overseas housing markets where there have been large house price corrections, investors have been more likely to default on their loans.
    Meanwhile, a leading economist said the Auckland housing market is a growing risk to the country’s economy.
    Shamubeel Eaqub told Radio New Zealand’s Morning Report programme the Reserve Bank may have to intervene – even though it was not its policies that were inflating the market.

    Again this statistic from the RB governor; why is this not being seized upon by opposition parties? Where is it from?

  11. save NZ 11

    Great article by Gareth Hughes

    The Government has just announced another $10m for petroleum data to be secured and supplied to the oil industry, paid for by, yes you. If it looks like a subsidy and acts like a subsidy – it is a subsidy. In this case a subsidy to find more oil we can’t afford to burn if we don’t want to cook the climate.

    Steven Joyce’s Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment latest science investment round just announced it will give GNS $2.4m a year over four years to ‘develop new workstation-ready data products for the exploration industry.’ I know the oil industry is facing a low oil price at the moment but it’s hard to believe one of the world’s largest and most profitable industries needs a to go cap in hand to the taxpayer for a hand-out. This comes on top of $25m in previous years, $46m in annual tax breaks and benefiting from the forth-lowest tax plus royalty rate in the world.

  12. Stephen 12

    Is Tim Barnett’s resignation a good or not so good thing?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11511453
    The Labour Party will now have 3 different people in senior positions following the last election.

    • Sacha 12.1

      Can’t see how it could hurt, given how well they all performed at the last election.

    • lprent 12.2

      Just part of the turnover. The general secretary’s role in Labour is a hard one, the money is crap, the skills required are immense and varied, and the hours are horrendous.

      I saw Mike Smith do that role for many years when I was still active in the Labour party, and was always impressed that he didn’t throw up his hands and depart. It is completely underfunded and massively undervalued especially by the Labour staffers and MPs at parliament. The only time they value it is for a short period around the election.

      Tim Barnett did a pretty good job of it. He helped to get a lot of the changes required for the Labour party organisation to survive. Who really gives a pigs arse about MPs and staffers anyway? To lose the party base would be to consign the MPs and their staff to a future like United Future or Act have.

      And Labour does it without going into virtual slavery to large donors in the way National or Act did.

      • Stephen 12.2.1

        Thanks for the summary, LP

      • Ad 12.2.2

        Ideally replaced by someone who with the President can raise some money.

        • lprent 12.2.2.1

          That would be ideal. However the primary role of the secretary is to deal with the multitudinous details of running a large mainly voluntary organisation. Since that role is fulltime and with a very very limited staff, it doesn’t leave that much time for chasing donors.

          The Labour party needs to start treating donor chasing as being a professional activity and set aside some funds to hire people to do that task. You bring the pres, sec, and anyone else in when you close.

          But also figuring out how to get more small and repeated funds from smaller donors would help a lot. Again, they have to set that up and run it for the long term with an eye to lowering costs of collection.

          MPs in particular see the importance just before the election each time. But lose interest afterwards. Essentially they need to be kicked out from the process because they have screwed up dealing with the party issues for several decades now. Consequently they haven’t gotten fixed.

          • Sacha 12.2.2.1.1

            “figuring out how to get more small and repeated funds from smaller donors would help a lot”

            possibly need an Obama to inspire that.

  13. Jilly Bee 13

    Bloody hell – I see that Jock Anderson fresh from being given the DCM from the Herald has popped up as a commentator at Radio New Zealand. http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/283942/opinion-books-shouldn't-promote-swearing

    At the end of his diatribe is this: ‘Jock Anderson has been a journalist for a long time, observing matters from what he describes as a sensible centre-right perspective. He can be contacted at jockanderson123@gmail.com

  14. Bill 14

    Seems Dr Joe Aitchenson on Radio NZ afternoons (hope I have the name right) ‘gets’ the shit that it seems NZ Labour and a fuck shit pile of people just can’t get their heads around.

    Not a bad run down considering the source. He was on between 1 O’Clock and half past.

  15. DC Sheehan 15

    It took me a couple of days to fall across David Farrar’s comment on the banning of Into the River by the Film and Literature Board of Review:

    “Don’t get hysterical and silly. And it isn’t banned as much as suspended – there is a difference.”

    Actually it is banned, temporarily, but still banned. Also it’s good to know he thinks the government banning things is acceptable. Let’s take his site off line for a month and see whether he’s so casual about it.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2015/09/into_the_river.html

  16. Karen 16

    Ha! Waitangi Tribunal has told the government the way they are handling Ngāpuhi claims is unfair. Let’s see how the arrogant Chris Finlayson reacts to this as he loathes being challenged.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11511469

  17. Tony Veitch 17

    Talking points: (see 4.1.1.1 for my identity)

    I resigned from the Labour Party in 1987 or 8, not sure which year now. I’ve waited 30 years for the appearance of a Jeremy Corbyn or a Bernie Sanders on the New Zealand political scene – someone who will take the party back to the core values of the left and away from the neoliberalism bullshit we’ve had to put up with for years.

    Let me tell Labour, you can’t run with the hare and hunt with the hounds! Neoliberalism policies have all but disenfranchised a huge section of the NZ public – but we’re waiting for a truly grass-roots upsurge like what is happening in the UK.

    Take this country back to the days before Douglas and Prebble began to demolish it, with inclusive policies – and I could tell you what I mean by these if you wish (see below) – and build a movement for change that will sweep the rich and filthy rich into the dustbin! As someone said, the poor don’t need the rich, but the rich need the poor!

    1. Raise the top tax rates and close the company tax loopholes.

    2. Nationalise crucial industries and social services which were sold by National – without compensation!

    3. Get rid of the SOE business model – allow government departments to do what they are instituted to do without having to pay a dividend.

    4. Introduce a Guaranteed Basic Income which allows ALL people to live with dignity and participate fully in society. Introduce a maximum wage!

    5. Get private business and the profit motive entirely out of government services! This includes prisons and schools.

    6. Restrict foreign investment in land and do an analysis on the benefits of any foreign investment to ensure it is of benefit to New Zealanders.

    7. Encourage the growth of unionism and collective bargaining, giving working people a role in management as is done in some other countries.

    8. Take climate change seriously – make this country lead the world in green technology. Immediately stop oil exploration around and in New Zealand.

    9. Distance this country from American adventurism (and the machinations of other countries for that matter) – pursue a policy of neutrality and leadership for a better, more just and peaceful world.

    10. Bring integrity back to politics by government funding 100% of election campaigns.

    11. Bring some sanity back into the banking system by regulations on credit creation.

    12. Negotiate bilateral free trade agreement which benefit the working people of both countries. Exclude ISDS clauses!

    • Karen 17.1

      +1 Tony.
      Excellent list. Send it to every Labour MP and LEC.

    • Stephen 17.2

      Wow, perfeck.

    • Draco T Bastard 17.3

      Restrict foreign investment in land do an analysis on the benefits of any foreign investment to ensure it is of benefit to New Zealanders.

      That’s easy – there’s never any benefit to a country from foreign investment thus it should simply be banned.

      Take climate change seriously – make this country lead the world in green technology.

      It’s not so much climate change that we need to take seriously to do that but sustainability. Our present use of scarce resources is unsustainable. Climate change is the result of that unsustainability.

      Bring some sanity back into the banking system by regulations on credit creation.

      Ban credit creation. Make it so that the only money in the system is what the government creates and spends into the system.

      Negotiate bilateral free trade agreement which benefit the working people of both countries.

      Nope. Droip out of all FTAs including the WTO and set minimum standards that other countries must reach before we will trade with them. Such minimum standards will mirror our own which will ensure that trade will actually happen when it’s beneficial.

      • tinfoilhat 17.3.1

        “That’s easy – there’s never any benefit to a country from foreign investment thus it should simply be banned.”

        “Nope. Droip out of all FTAs including the WTO and set minimum standards that other countries must reach before we will trade with them. Such minimum standards will mirror our own which will ensure that trade will actually happen when it’s beneficial.”

        Sigh…Draco your passion is admirable but you really do come up with some idiotic statements at times.

        • Draco T Bastard 17.3.1.1

          So what’s wrong with them or is that you don’t actually know WTF you’re talking about and just wish to cast aspersions?

          • tinfoilhat 17.3.1.1.1

            Suggesting we stop trade other countries – let’s just look at one area… we get almost all of our medicines from overseas, your suggestion on the face of it would consign thousands of NZers to death.

            Also to suggest that all foreign investment in NZ has no benefit is patently absurd.

            • Draco T Bastard 17.3.1.1.1.1

              Suggesting we stop trade other countries

              Where’d I say that?

              Also to suggest that all foreign investment in NZ has no benefit is patently absurd.

              Well, after many decades of foreign investment we haven’t actually seen any. If anything we’ve seen serious damage to our economy because of it. We see NZ businesses bought out and then shipped offshore complete with the IP – no jobs produced and the loss of the income that the IP and business represented. Foreign ownership of the banks has led to massive outflows of money resulting in even less investment than we would normally have. There’s more evidence of damage to our society from foreign investment on CAFCA’s website.

              So, the only thing that’s patently absurd is you as you seem to be incapable of reading what’s written and have an ideological belief in offshore ownership despite the evidence.

    • tinfoilhat 17.4

      Well done Tony – can I suggest that your most natural home is in the Green party rather than Labour, even though they have no plans for several of your points they are more closely aligned with your overall vision than Labour will ever be.

    • Macro 17.5

      12. Negotiate fair trade agreements. 🙂

  18. adam 18

    Tony a schoolboy.

  19. Michael Nolan 19

    So, anyone else see David Shearers post on FB?

    Astonishing. Embarrassing. And actually, really depressing (as a member).

    • Draco T Bastard 19.1

      This one?

      But more likely it will guarantee Labour stays in ‘glorious’ opposition as it did during the 1980s and 1990s – until finally it reached out to voters in the centre and won three elections in a row. But until then Thatcher and the Conservatives ran rampant for 18 years.
      Too often we forget that being in government is the objective. Anything else is just academic discussion.

      Where he proves, conclusively IMO, that he’s just not original Labour material?

    • Sacha 19.2

      And NZ Labour still seem unable to enforce basic message discipline on their caucus after losing 3 elections. Hopeless amateurs.

    • Bill 19.3

      These fucks who think everything is about winning and power and that nothing is about being right…please, don’t anyone mumble anything about lamp-posts.

    • The Chairman 21.1

      Here is Mr fix it.

      Steven Joyce said buyers needed to understand that interest rates weren’t going to stay low for ever.

      Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/aucklands-property-market-dangerous-territory-2015091113#ixzz3lPaDrF6Z

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