Open mike 12/07/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, July 12th, 2019 - 152 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

152 comments on “Open mike 12/07/2019 ”

  1. reason 1

    The Apartheid state of Israel is the largest right wing hate movement… it kills on a war crime scale.. and it's reaching out

    the fact that far-right European governments and parties today are growing ever closer to Israel shows a “convergence of fascist and neo-Nazi groups with hardliner Zionists.”

    As a worrying UK example of this, anti-Muslim fascist leader Tommy Robinson’s recent trip to Israel and funding by anti-Palestinian groups.

    I'm linking to a 5 minute doco that tells us information NZ should know about the sub humane christchurh shooter … as the title shows his name … I have spaced gap ( h ttp ), undo that if / when you copy and paste it.

    The information is important as it raises things we should be guarding against …. and are perhaps blind to.

    We should at least look at things like ' the shooter claims that ethno nationalists like himself are concentrated in the European armed forces and national police forces' … may be relevant to why his filthy great big red flags were ignored in our preventable terrorist tragedy.

    And it identifies … The phrases and words …. 'Invaders' language …. … tRump or our National Party .. that grows and feeds …. this hate mindset for votes .

    we need to see the scale of what has been growing on around us .. and we have been blind

    I hope the moderators here amend my back-space link block …and allow the title to be seen. I know the shooters name just like I know Martyn Bryants name … both of which I associate with men who would chase little children .. to shoot them.

    We are adults, I think we could be helping to forget … before we have even learned.

    h ttps://

    • Adrian Thornton 1.1

      @reason, too right, and of course what do the guard dog defenders of liberal status quo like the Guardian and NYTimes do in the face of this out right racist war..double down on their relentless smearing and disinformation on the two politicians (Corbyn, Sanders) who have had decades fighting racism..most so called MSM ‘liberal’ media is public enemy number one, you want some real fake or misconstrued and misleading news..look no further than your daily MSM liberal news sources…that is news in fact.

  2. reason 2

    Clinton laid the foundation amd law on immigration policy … and on which tRump is now building ,,,,

    This cruelty is not limited to one side or the other ….

    Rather it seems to be a disease among the rich and powerful

    The same horrible actors, appearing in different plays and lots of theatres …

    Divide and be cruel … Build Great Racism … human traffick

    They have a lot of fans .

    • mpledger 2.1

      There are degrees of cruelty. Imprisoning families for a few days (capture and release) is one thing – seperating children from their families without the ability to reunite them, putting large groups of children in wire netting cells without the means to keep them sanitary is quite another.

      " U.S. District Judge Dolly Gee had found that migrants in Rio Grande Valley facilities were hungry, with some eating only “sandwiches of two pieces of dry bread and one slice of ham.” They were thirsty, with up to 20 migrants sharing the same cup to drink from the water cooler. They were embarrassed to use a toilet in front of 50 other people and they couldn’t take a shower or brush their teeth or even wash their hands with soap and dry them with a towel, the judge found. At night, they couldn’t sleep. The lights were left on, as they shivered beneath an aluminum blanket on the concrete floor, the judge found. "

      • AB 2.1.1

        Yep – it's deliberate use of cruelty as a deterrent. Something the Ockers have been doing for a while now. It's likely to become the 'go to' strategy in the face of CC-driven food shortages increasing refugee flows – and it will fuel the rise of the far right everywhere. As the resource (food, water) competition tightens, a similar strategy of containment will be deployed against unwanted internal populations as well.

        • greywarshark

          It's uncomfortable to contemplate to say the least. AB I see you as being correct.

          And if anyone doubts the depths we could descend to, and our neighbours across the ditch, just note that we have the example of extermination of Jews, gypsies, imperfect people (not shining Aryan types), and the dehumanising of many in WW2. This by a nation that had been the basis of Protestant Christianity, had highly educated and sophisticated people, and was far from being a simple society that was locked into eternal wars and vendettas tribe to tribe.

          Educated, sophisticated people, who have abandoned standards of behaviour such as respect for all humans, for kindness and status to animals, and support for human community and sharing, are rife.

          What devil's brew will they come up with, in their welter of power. The maxim of Absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely' is daily proven.

          Jump from one Big Power to another – can any be seen to be aiming at good standards in all their dealings. China and Falun Gong? USA we know about. UK conducting public dismemberment of their long-held welfare policies and government responsibility.

          How we may have to cope with it – I thought of A Smugglers Song a poem by Rudyard Kipling, he wasn't just a poohbah Brit.

          IF you wake at midnight, and hear a horse's feet,
          Don't go drawing back the blind, or looking in the street,
          Them that ask no questions isn't told a lie.
          Watch the wall my darling while the Gentlemen go by. …

          'If You do as you've been told, 'likely there's a chance,
          You'll be give a dainty doll, all the way from France,
          With a cap of Valenciennes, and a velvet hood –
          A present from the Gentlemen, along 'o being good !

          Five and twenty ponies,
          Trotting through the dark –
          Brandy for the Parson, 'Baccy for the Clerk.
          Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie –
          Watch the wall my darling while the Gentlemen go by !

          Rudyard Kipling also wrote 'If'. Here it is read well by Michael Caine.

  3. Heresy @reason!!!! Shadrach will be along shortly to chastise you

  4. vto 4

    Eugenie Sage needs to pull her head in over comments that Westland Council didn't have a fund set aside for historic landfill risks.

    DOC has something like 90% of the land on the coast, and the use of that land results in massive (like the majority) use of Council resource and infrastructure such as road, water systems, and yes rubbish dumps…

    .. and get this. DOC pays no rates.

    Pull your head in Sage – pay up or shut up. DOC bludger, bludging off the ratepayers of Westland.

    • Cinny 4.1

      Before getting angry at Eugenie, maybe ANOTHER audit of the Westland Council is required. They haven't been the best financial managers or carers for their environment in the past.

      Care to apply for the job? Applications close on Monday..

      21 May 2019 – Westland District Council has paid nearly $30,000 in reparation following discharges, which were in breach of the resource consent conditions and the Resource Management Act, from the Franz Josef sewerage system to the Waiho riverbed last year.

      In its March 5 report, the Auditor-General found a number of unacceptable practices when it investigated the construction of a new stopbank to protect Franz Josef's wastewater treatment plant from flooding, including whether the work had been approved at all. It concluded that the council couldn't show whether the decision was well made or the money well spent.

      2017 – The Westland District Council's assets manager is being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office.

      Am happy to find many more links about more situations relating to their bad financial management…. just saying….

      Or, how about asking maureen pugh about it, she was one of the worst mayors of Westland Council.

      • marty mars 4.1.1

        + 1 yep Cinny.

        Blaming DOC is poor thinking and calling them bludgers is just stupid.

        • Dukeofurl

          But hes right, DOC doesnt pay a cent in rates and Sage wants 'ratepayers' to pay for and manage the risks.

          The shoddy decision making by the council is a separate issue, maybe they could do a tourist tax like Queenstown wants , but is facing stiff resistance from the business owners.

          • marty mars

            DOC doesn't pay a cent in rates – yeah I wonder why? jeeze wtf. DOC isn't just a loss on the balance sheet it has inputs as well.

            These dumps are everywhere – 18 in Tasman alone that could be breached in storms. Every council will have to get off their arse and use all resources to mitigate the potential disaster of these blowouts. Trying to say dunno, not us is not any answer imo

          • vto

            Dukeofurl, DOC charge each and every concession holder on the Westland DOC estate 7% of their turnover each and every year…

            … get that everybody? 7% of turnover… (of course then there is GST too at 15% = 22% in total). How much would just one of those scenic heli concessions turnover in one year??

            Perhaps an application under the OIA to ascertain how much DOC and the government make out of Westland each and every year would help shed some light on their place within the Westland community…

            … as earners but not payers.

            as bludgers, as would a corporate be so described, in this context

            edit: oh, forgot about income tax as well….

            • marty mars

              do you even know what 'concession' means in the context of our National Parks and protected places – the people getting concessions do so so that they can potentially make PERSONAL profit from the collective (the conservation estate or the bit they take people into) – oh the poor fucking dears. As usual you have it all arse about face.

              • vto

                I hold two concessions in Westland, plus I’m a ratepayer. The points made are facts.

                But as usual, you can't see past the personal and consequently miss the point.

                • marty mars

                  Ha – so the old asking for a friend is out then – that is good because I know that you own concessions and I know it is all about the $$$. Or maybe I have it all wrong like you said lol

                • Can I ask @vto? I know it's not that kosha to ask, but am I correct in assuming you're a child (and then rationally thunking adult) of the neo-lib era?

                  The one where minimal gummint, operationalising everything on the basis of fishincy and fektivniss, externalising costs and incentivising all for the sake of a market ruling supreme.

                  "So"………"Ultimately", if you are of that era and experience, I'd recommend getting together some sort of PPP that (who) could bid for the cost of cleanups going forwid. They could work (constructively) with DOC, and local bodies after consultation with all the stakeholders, and after various conversations have been had, and I believe we'd be able to come up with a viable solution.

                  I mean, I get that the ratepayer base is insuffishint and has unreasnibble expectations of it – speshilly when the number of interlopers masquerading as tourists are inflicting their shit on you, but I just wonder about the intricacies of it all if we're to adhere to neo-liberal religion.

                  Is it possible we could have a conversation?

                  • vto

                    Absolutely. I don't think the neolib approach works too well though – that much has been proved in various parts of society (except the purchase of plastic buckets from the warehouse where neolib doctrine works fine…).

                    As for cleaning up these dumps all around the country? What popped into mind some while ago is that these things can be attended to over a longer period. For example, buy a digger and a truck and start removing the shit. Don't PPP it. Just buy and employ and get started. It may take some time, but no matter that.

                    Like the cathedral in Chch – doesn't matter how lng it takes, just make a start and keep going.

                    Get a digger and start moving the shit. It aint hard.

                    One digger and truck, $30,000 per annum. One employee, $60,000 per annum. Overhead $20,000 per annum.

                    • Well yea! Of course! Fully!

                      Couple of problems Actually several) though as far as your criticisms of Eugenie.

                      Munsters and their enterage can't comment of "operational matters" going forward (That is of course, unless their future careers depend on it)

                      And secondly, it'll have to be subjected to the risk managers and liability analysts.

                      (Coukd take some time, and as you may or may not know, both Jacinda and Andrew Little have recently alerted us to the fact that things always take longer than they expected)

                    • Sacha

                      The argument seems to be over who the employer is.

                    • Gabby

                      You could get half a PR consultant for that. Get a grip on yourself.

          • Pingau

            Why would DOC pay rates? Do the police pay rates for their Westland area? Why should payment for the clean up of the council's dump come out of the DOC budget? DOC was gutted several times over in the last 20 years so if you want the general NZ taxpayer to contribute extra funding for a council's fuck up and the local's rubbish, you will be opening the door for more industries and councils to pass the buck.

      • vto 4.1.2

        Nothing to do with the point made Cinny

        Point stands

      • greywarshark 4.1.3

        I think West Coast council management is pretty stop-gap and No.8 fencing wire thinking. They are probably on a par with the management of sports codes, people who have some experience 'in the field' and are focussed on their own ideas and approaches. Not conducive to outside queries of their decisions or concerned about professional analysis except just enough to get people off their backs. This is BAU for a number of councils, so can't just point the finger at SI West Coast.

        • vto

          Grey, Westland Council surely does have a record of poor skills in certain areas, however those have absolutely nothing to do with the point made, which concerns Sage's political point-scoring against Smith in the context outlined.

          DOC earns massive amounts every year from the use of Council infrastructure, yet pays NOTHING towards their cost. NOTHING. ZIP. ZERO

          If this was a corporate, or if Nick Smith or Maggie boorish Barry were still the Ministers and Key in charge, then my points made would be agreed with here.

          Until DOC pays its way here the Minister needs to stfu.

          Are people around here allowed to tell Sage to stfu in the same way people around here used to tell Barry and Smith to stfu? Or is it too hard for partisans to pull their ideology blinkers aside?

          • Pingau

            DOC don't own the land so don't pay rates although I would guess that they do pay rates for their buildings in town. Rubbish is a council responsibility and rubbish is created by the residents, visitors and tourists – not by DOC who would be taking care of this patch of New Zealand regardless of existing infrastructure. Also does not the government pay for the roads outside of the towns? So roads etc are paid for out of the same purse that pays for DOC.

            • vto

              "DOC don't own the land ". Are you referring to the registered proprietor, and picking at the technicalities?

              The Westland Council has 6,000 ratepayers who pay a total of approx $6,000,000 per annum.

              That's it.

              There is no more.

              There is little to no money there. Many many people live on the smell of an oily rag.

              You can't magic money up out of nowhere.

              Yet approx 1,000,000 tourists pass through every year – for the DOC estate.

              The total land area is approx 1,200,000 hectares, while only 120,000 hectares only is rateable. Guess who has the other 1,080,000 hectares?

              DOC earns from the use of Council assets yet pays nothing towards those assets.

              Regarding government-paid roads, that is only SH6, the main road. All other roads are ratepayer-paid. The 6,000 of them.

              Do some sums.

              Think of this issue as if Key and his slimeballs still held the reins – it will enable clearer thinking. Nick Smith is still Minister.

              • vto

                Just a bit more from the DOC Annual Report…

                DOC earn approx $60,000,000 per annum.

                How much of that is earned in Westland? Westland holds four of the thirteen National Parks.

                Guestimate 25% of the DOC estate sits in Westland . Equals $15,000,000 from Westland.

                Like so very many other ratepayers in Westland, in this matter I give DOC the one-finger salute. They fall short in taking their place in the community.

                And Sage just makes it worse with her comments – shame on her

                • McFlock

                  The tourists who use the council infrastructure also buy food, fuel, equipment, and accommodation. All those local businesses pay that on in their rates.

                • veutoviper

                  I will be a nit picking legalistic bore, but DOC do not own the "Conservation/DOC estate".

                  DOC administer the Conservation Estate on behalf of the "Crown" – ie the Government as a whole – and on behalf of the people of NZ.

                  So if anyone should be contributing more it is central government, not DOC per se.

                • I think I've got the answer @vto. It'd be a win win for everyone.

                  First of all we'll need to cover off those skill shortages in the Westland Council and ensure consultation with the community.

                  Who better than Laidlaw, who'll be looking for a gig after the local body elections? A perfect fit! and with a proven record of consultation and problem solving.

                  Then we could shunt Lou Sanson off to Treasury after the good work he's done resolving DOC's 'toxic culture', and he's got the smarts and verbals necessary to handle criticism over targeting employees and trying to shut the scientific community up. Better still he believes in "emphasising community involvement and greater engagement with the nation’s Indigenous peoples" in keeping with transformational government. (It's a given because …. well because he says so).After the Treasury hacking debacle, we need someone with Lou's smarts to help settle things down.

                  We immediately put Public Service CEO on the Immigration NZ skills shortage list with an English language requirement of IELTS 7.0 or higher with a salary range reflecting the global market place. With a bit of luck, we might get someone of the calibre of one of Sir John's former banking mates from offshore – there are one or two looking for a bolt hole, or even someone from the US EPA.

                  What could be a better fit for all stakeholders going forward!

          • Cinny

            Was the ex dump on DOC land or as a result of DOC? Nope.

            Has the Westland Council managed themselves well, especially in the last decade? Nope.

            Neither of these things are the fault of the minister.

            DOC have helped, massively and so have the defence force. Apparently it's still not good enough for some, maybe the fear of a rate rise is more of a concern?

            vto, if you really want to do something and pay rates there, I strongly suggest you join the volunteer clean up. Because your rates may end up increasing as a result of the Westland Councils bad management, not the first time that's happened I hear. Election coming up…. maybe you will stand?

  5. marty mars 5

    I hope you focus on RACE RELATIONS like your job title implies and not drift into other areas and dissipate the energy. Good luck.

    In an interview with RNZ on Thursday, Foon said he hoped to "showcase New Zealand as a great country to live".

    "I want to continue the good work of the past commissioners … and continue to enhance harmonious relations right throughout New Zealand."

    He said there were a wide range of multifaceted issues and solutions that needed to be implemented.

    Raising the average salaries of those in need, enhancing education levels, providing affordable housing and matters regarding state care were particular issues that required attention, Foon said.

  6. Blazer 6

    So Aussie banks get the 'message' in Australia too.

    Not seen the same response from them ,that they offered here in NZ.

  7. greywarshark 7

    Daft government with tepid strategic planning for the country, no foresight, just open the doors and let the corporate hordes swan in and take our bits.

    Better to deal with NZ reliables, try and win over the gangs that are aspirational good communities – but when it comes to licensing Marijuana it may be another CPPPTTAA? walkover.

    • The Chairman 7.1

      Seems Labour are taking the potential of having medicinal cannabis in the hands of the people (which would lower the cost) and are setting it up for the corporates to produce and supply.

      However, this could all come undone if personal use and production (backyard) is legalised via the up and coming referendum.

      • riffer 7.1.1

        Unless of course some kind of excise tax or licence to grow system is introduced, thereby turning growers without the correct licences (available for only $5000) into criminals. Much potential for disaster here.

        • The Chairman

          As Labour has set no law in place pending the referendum, we don't really know what we will be voting for. So you could well be right re licences to grow your own. Making the only way to legally use it, is to buy it commercially or pay a commercial fee to grow it. At this stage, we just don't know. It was meant to be binding, but hey, that's fall short Labour at play once again.

          • Drowsy M. Kram

            "At this stage [~14 months out from the referendum], we just don't know."

            "but hey, that's fall short Labour at play once again."

            And that's The "relentlessly soggy" "lefty" "more left than most" "transparent as a transparent thing" Chairman at play once again.

            Interesting that there's not a single mention of NZ's two most recent Government referendums (binding referendums at that) in the article linked to by The Chairman – not one. A curious omission, don't you think?

            The shortlist for the first flag referendum was made public about three months before voting, and the results of that vote were released about three months before the second flag referendum.

            Three months vs 14 months, and poor Chair is panicking smiley

          • Incognito

            As the Government has set no law in place pending the referendum, we don't really know what we will be voting for. So you could well be right re licences to grow your own. Making the only way to legally use it, is to buy it commercially or pay a commercial fee to grow it. At this stage, we just don't know. It was meant to be binding, but hey, that's fall short Government at play once again.


            Note that in your link there was not a single mention of Labour, not one. Are you really that blind to your own anti-Labour bias?

            • The Chairman

              Thanks, but that is not fully correct.

              It's a Labour led fall short Government.


              And you asked if I’m blind, ha.

    • WeTheBleeple 7.2

      Medicine is a far cry from weed for the masses. I don't imagine the 23K applies to recreational pot but we'll see. There are many variables to be considered:

      Some weed can make you paranoid

      Some is anxiolytic

      Those are complete opposites. Medicinal weed should be handled by people who have a vested interest to get it right for a medical market. The regulatory bodies should be busy, and that is expensive.

      Recreational weed, like booze, might push a brand and the public buy it or they don't. There will be varied types and effects and strengths. The best boutique brands will emerge. NZ weed will be exported if it's good enough. The money should come back to NZ.

      The medicine would be for local and then global markets. Made in NZ, paying tax in NZ and employing in NZ…

      The person needing medicine needs someone who knows biology, medicine, cannabinoid & other metabolite profiles, dosage, frequency, how those apply to various delivery methods, how these vary with culture methods… We're not bloody paupers making herb tea in a tin hut.

      It might sound expensive, till you look at what it’s worth.

      • The Chairman 7.2.1

        You overlooked the fact that many are growing their own and using this now for medicinal purposes without a problem apart from it being illegal.

        All the Government is going to do for them is keep that activity illegal and force them to pay top dollar for it.

        So while it may be grown here, profits are bound to head offshore as locals are priced out or sell out as is usually the case with NZ businesses. And as for paying local tax, surely you must know how offshore owned companies minimize that?

        • WeTheBleeple

          The home-grower will find their medicine improved a great deal via the research of professionals. While you make stuff up and bang out about something you obviously know nothing about, there are many people who are not getting the efficacy from their medicine that they could be getting.

          How many cancer patients have you worked with? PTSD? Autism?

          What metabolite profiles are desirable for the above groups.

          You clown.

          • The Chairman

            While I'm not claiming to be a doctor or health specialist, I'm not making stuff up. There are many growing their own and using this now for medicinal purposes without a problem apart from it being illegal.

            They just want the Government to stop criminalizing them.

            Sure, further research may further benefit them but they should have that choice between being able to home grow or opt for a commercial product.

            Why do you and the Government want to prevent that and rob them of that choice?

  8. Morrissey 8

    In 1953 the United Kingdom and the U.S. conspired to crush democracy in Iran. They're still causing trouble 66 years later.

  9. marty mars 9

    No respect – a metaphor for our society imo – sometime is going so thrash it to death so we can say 'look at me'.

    In 2017 it was announced that from October 26th, 2019, tourists will no longer be able to climb Uluru (also known as Ayers Rock), out of respect for local indigenous tribes.

    In the lead up to its closure, tourists have begun to swarm the UNESCO World Heritage Site, with hopes of hiking to the top of the 348m high arkose monolith.

    … On Tuesday, photos of hundreds of tourists lining up to hike Uluru begun circulating online, angering locals, the traditional landowners, Australians and officials alike.

    … Apparently tourists have been leaving human waste and nappies behind, despite there being a dedicated area to dump waste.

    Chief executive of Tourism Central Australia, Stephen Schwer, told the ABC, "(Tourists) think they're doing a good thing by free camping along the way; what they are actually doing is trespassing on pastoralist and joint-managed and protected land.

    • AB 9.1

      Maybe tourism in its current form is just mass narcissism,'s all about the self rather than the place visited. So many tourists here seem to need to race across the landscape, climb it, jump off bits of it etc. It’s possible to do that and leave a place still knowing nothing about it.

      • marty mars 9.1.1

        yeah – I have been a guide in a National Park and a Nature Reserve before – I had to actively get people to slow down and actually look around and see it all. Quite often there was resistance even though they had paid to be there. Bit like when they'd ask – what's that?, what's this? I so wanted to say "why do you care – let it all go and just be here without excessive knowledge gathering' Just be here now. But of course I didn't, I played the game.

      • greywarshark 9.1.2

        The tourists come to conquer the country? Veni, vidi, vici? Climb every mountain, ford every stream, follow every rainbow, till you find your dream. But they never will. A lot are only capable of short, quick, bursts of emotion with no contemplation of the wonder of the world. and no lasting respect for the land and the culture that are revealed to those who desire to see it. ('We've got better at home, is that the best they can do'?) Been there, done that, off to the next thing. The world is to use, discard and then pass on to the next experience.

        Christine Aguilera puts the popular zip into Climb every Mountain which was an inspirational song about escape from oppression and tyranny. (

        • Blazer

          Here's a profound one

        • I feel love

          I was in Hawea recently, and I just drove to a nice scenic spot, and read my book under the mountains for a couple hours. I saw 100s of people, tourists, park, get out, look for a few minutes, take a selfie, back in car and off they went to the next spot. A beautiful area though.

          • greywarshark

            Away from the 'maddening' throng. A book, view, peace, and something to nibble and drink. All requirements satisfied. Hope you liked the book.

      • Gabby 9.1.3

        It always has been the ultimate in conspicuous consumption.

  10. Blazer 10

    All done in the best possible taste..

    'Epstein pleaded guilty in state court in Florida in 2007 to charges of soliciting a minor for prostitution, resolving allegations that he had molested numerous girls. He served 13 months in jail, though he was allowed out six days a week to work from his office in Palm Beach.'


  11. greywarshark 11

    Someone has just been jailed for life with a minimum period of 10 years behind bars. I suppose that someone with a corkscrew mind could make sense of bringing that law in.

  12. WeTheBleeple 12

    News on the whole is overwhelmingly negative, and The Standard is mostly an echo chamber of that. It is all too easy to feed into finding something to be upset about each day.

    This constant barrage of negative news can be debilitating, and the propensity for many here to repeat their pet peeves over and over is simply tiring. What effect has all the complaining done for any of the 'popular' issues here?

    Politics. Neo-liberal loathing. Poverty. Biodiversity Loss. Climate Change. War. Extremism… What has the years of whinging achieved? If you've made an impact by all means we need to hear about that. Not the same shit trotted out each day.

    The world has a lot of problems right now. Concentrating on nothing but problems however gives a skewed and unrealistic view. I believe we play straight into the hands of power brokers who would prefer we are fearful and fighting among ourselves, rather than emboldened citizens of an incredible planet, surrounded by incredible people.

    'Seek and ye shall find'. The daily ferreting out of things that are wrong is an exercise in propagating futility. Yes there are many issues, moaning about them constantly is a piss-poor effort.

    As is moaning about all the moaning. blush

    How to Get There is a step in the right direction.

    Here's an old dude opened up his home gym and now has many local children training with him instead of getting up to other forms of 'entertainment' that might set their lives on a destructive path.

    My anxiety is through the roof lately, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Today I'll go seek some professional help, because that is how you responsibly deal with a problem – action, not whinging.

    Here's the Guardian, which just linking to sets off a bunch of predictable whining about the publication itself. Like hysterical teens on facebook screaming faux outrage.

    When I try say – well done this person or that person for something good – y'all take their pedigree and dredge up whatever dirt you can find or imagine about them. No credit where it's due, no bipartisan support for anyone. Sides and stances.

    Here's an app that lends eyes to the blind

    Use it.

  13. Rosemary McDonald 13

    Serious question.

    If this Government are sincere when they say they will repeal the Part 4A amendment to the Public Health and Disability Act (rushed through under urgency on the back of the 2013 Budget) why can they not do this now?

    This would essentially effect a reboot of the Public Health and Disability Act, and the Ministry of Health DSS Funded Family Care policy would wink out of existence.

    All that would be needed is for the prohibition for having a resident family member provide the assessed care to be removed from MOH:DSS documents.

    MOH DSS clients who have been through the NASC process and undergone the needs assessments and had hours allocated can simply choose to have a family member provide those supports either through Individualised Funding or through a Contracted Provider.

    As was the common practice for those family carers who were being paid despite the policy forbidding this. The Ministry of Health DSS has the details of these arrangements. (I have an anonymised list obtained through OIA)

    There will be certain eligible DSS clients whose assessments have been too heavily predicated on resident family providing what the Misery calls 'natural supports'.

    These will need to be re- assessed on a case by case basis with assistance from ACC who also expect resident family to provide some level of 'natural supports ' but have the real risk that if they don't fund adequate hours of support they (ACC) can be liable if there is further harm to the client.

    ACC and the Ministry of Health have worked closely on previous occasions so this is not an outrageous suggestion.

    So, why not repeal the Part 4A POS now and allow those who have been denied access to the funding allocated for their care because of a policy determined to be discriminatory by the Courts in decisions all three of the Parties in Government claim they agree with?

    Because I am very, very suspicious that resolution of this will be delayed until after the election.

    • Sacha 13.1

      Easy enough to fix right away, as you point out.

    • veutoviper 13.2

      As you say Rosemary, some of the issues could be very quickly remedied – for example, by using urgency to repeal the dreaded Part 4a of the Act etc. But to do so that way would actually just be doing what the last Nat government did in bringing Part 4a and the whole rediculous policy in the first place with all the attendant problems that accompanied that move – lack of consultation with those affected, no public submission process etc, etc.

      I fully recognise your reasons for scepticism etc in light of what you and Peter, and many others have gone through for years and I fully support all of you. (I too have some disabilities and know full well how hard the fight is to try to get what you are entitled to.)

      Having worked in the State Service sector in Wellington for over four decades and in particular in areas interacting and liaising with, and working on secondment from time to time in, the Parliamentary arena, I am reasonably confident that the intentions are to get these legislative changes etc through and in place well before the election in the second half of next year – but at the same time taking the time to do it properly in full consultation with people like yourselves, and through the proper legislative process of select committee deliberation, public submissions etc.

      The little signs that give me this hope include the fact that $32M was allocated in Budget 2019 for contingency costs to get the changes through in the current financial year and the changes don't have to await funding in Budget 2020.

      The various press releases by Ministers seem to have included mention of the way that Part 4a was brought in under urgency and without consultation etc and the wish not to do the same – eg

      “We are committed to getting this change through as swiftly as we can, while also avoiding the process which created the current legislation,” says Julie Anne Genter.

      My understanding is that work is well advanced on various possible options to replace the ridiculous employment arrangement brought in in 2013 "which do not place unreasonable expectations on disabled people, their family or whānau."

      The three Coalition parties all seem to be in agreement on this issue and singing from the same song sheet, and IIRC the intention is to announce these proposals, the proposed changes to legislation etc in the next few months and certainly well before the end of this year.

      In other words, what I am trying to say badly is that as someone who has worked in the area of legislative changes etc, they seem to be making sure that they have all their ducks lined up on this issue before they go ahead – as they must do particularly in light of the judicial decisions. So I so hope I am not wrong!

      • Rosemary McDonald 13.2.1

        Thank you for responding veutoviper, I was sending you psychic messages hoping for your particular insights.

        I do sincerely hope you are right, because another betrayal, a twist of the knife in our backs would be unforgivable.

        The little signs that give me this hope include the fact that $32M was allocated in Budget 2019 for contingency costs to get the changes through in the current financial year and the changes don't have to await funding in Budget 2020.

        Ironically it is exactly this that causes my deep concern that they have not thought it through.

        It is the "$32million over four years'… that doesn't quite add up.

        That's $8million dollars per year to pay an extra 640 family carers (like me) up to $25 per hour. Plus increase the pay of the current 400 Funded Family Carers to the same rate per hour. Generously, this works out as an average of about 9 hours per week per carer. For clients with high, very high and complex needs. Many of whom have been assessed as needing at least five times as many hours of support.

        It simply does not add up. Even more so if the government continues along the lines suggested by the PSA and makes the rule that these family care arrangements have to go through a contracted provider. To avoid the " "which do not place unreasonable expectations on disabled people, their family or whānau." issue.

        Veutoviper. This is not an issue to ACC clients who are bulk funded and pay their family. MOH DSS clients are being treated differently. Again. It may be appropriate where there are severe learning disabilities, and if both the client and the parent carer agree then these arrangements could be overseen by a Contracted Provider.

        This would of course add extra costs because the provider would expect their cut of the funding.

        Having the arrangement go through a provider denies the disabled person the autonomy provided by being able to use Individualised Funding…which I believe is funded at a lower hourly rate that the contracted providers demand.

        Reading the Cabinet Papers from back in 2012 when they decided not to take Atkinson to the Supreme Court, very early in the paper based discussion did the term "competing interests" arise. A few paragraphs later the redacted sections began, culminating in the impressively blanked out RIS that Micky Savage (chicken killercrying) shared in his post the other day.

        Now that would be awesome…unblank those sections of that Regulatory Impact Statement so we are fully informed.

        Honest and transparent government and all that.

        • Sacha

          unblank those sections of that Regulatory Impact Statement so we are fully informed.

          Yes please. Saving face for officials who should have known better is not a valid reason to keep it hidden.

  14. Morrissey 14

    Almost incredibly, the godawful American equivalent of the Grauniad just got worse.

    Sydney Ember, a finance company shill, a Clintonista, a crony of Matt Drudge, is now employed as a "journalist" by the New York Times….

  15. Chris 16

    Good on Collins. Her practical, down to earth approach will get her a long way. Just what we need in a future PM and what NZ needs to sort this mess out. About bloody time someone said it how it is.

    • Morrissey 16.1

      Doesn't she support parents hitting their kids?

      • Gabby 16.1.1

        Apparently not morpissey.

        • greywarshark

          Collins said something that sounded like a human speaking? I caught the whiff of some understanding from her the other day about something. I think it must be a bout of this Type A flu going round. They say it is really strong. Coff, coff.

        • Morrissey

          So it must have been someone else, disguised as Judith Collins, that boasted in 2007 about beating her own child….

          Judith Collins said "I smack my child, and I'm damn proud of it." (I wonder how her children feel about that pride?)

          • Chris

            See, reasonable smacking never hurt anyone. Her kids still love her. What's the problem?

      • Chris 16.1.2

        Highly likely, as long as the bashing was reasonable.

        • Morrissey

          Exactly what the bashers of children say. How is she in any way superior to the parents who "go a bit far" and kill the kids whom she and the Family Fist Fanatics say are fair game for slap-happy parents?

          • Chris

            Because she speaks for the silent majority, for those too scared to raise their head above the pulpit of political correctness.

            • Morrissey

              You need to stop now. Every time you post, it's something even stupider than the last.

            • In Vino


              Do you mean pulpit, rampart or bulwark? Or parapet?

              • Chris

                Blinkin' heck, yes, parapet. Early onset for sure.

              • greywarshark

                Definitely pulpit when it comes to the political correctness verses like a religious fervour.

                • In Vino

                  Sorry to do it again, but verses or versus?

                  It was the raising the head above a pulpit (has anyone ever lowered a head below one?) that prompted me to question Chris, whose irony I hopefully thought I was enjoying.

                  Was not meaning to be critical.

                  • Chris

                    Yes, you were, but I don’t think Morrissey did.

                    I’m sure someone would’ve lowered their head below a pulpit. Perhaps when shoes or other things are being thrown at them.

                  • greywarshark

                    You can't help loving words like me. I was thinking of verses repeated from the holy lexicon of PCness.

                    I do enjoy this sort of finish to the end of the day with a bit more lightness than the days bathos. Choirboys probably like to keep their heads below the pulpit. Especially the ones that Giles sometimes included in his clever cartoons – kids with too much insouciance. (I like using google meanings a lot – so fast.)

                    • McFlock

                      Giles always had so much other than the main joke going on in the cartoons.

                    • In Vino

                      Cool. But choirboys should be well away from the pulpit, which is the uplifted tower-like stand where the preacher preaches from, unless I am getting that early onset thing yet again. .

                      And turret does work – ta Incognito.

                      'The holy lexicon of PCness.' Sounds much less threatening than the holy dictates/scriptures/commandments which holiness normally delivers.

                    • Incognito []

                      I was only kidding; letting off some ‘steam’, you know …

                    • joe90

                      probably like to keep their heads below the pulpit

                      ..not such a good idea…

            • Incognito

              The saying is: to be too scared to stick your head above the turret. I’m sure …

          • Gabby

            I don't think she's beaten many of her children to death morpissey, not even when on P and thus completely innocent.

            • Morrissey

              No, but she and the likes of Bob "Hairbrush" McCoskrie and other ideologically committed kiddywhackers provide the ideological and moral scaffolding for people who hit their children. I'm sure Collins has not hurt her own kids; it's a pity she has not thought a little more about the impact of her words and her policies. Same goes for her slap-happy political cronies.


              • CHCoff

                It's a one size doesn't fit all type of area really.

                Having to smack, for those that would feel they need to, too much is not ideal for the parent. The freedom to be a total brat is not ideal for the child.

                A settlement mechanism inclusive of both extreme ends to the area, would perhaps provide the maximum utility in enabling the natural fits that will be most suitable to all i would say if people really wanted it.

                That is an independent citizen’s aid authority, that can

                A) these smackings could be getting out of hand and becoming counter productive to the situation

                B) the child does not have the license of freedom is expecting of the parent & does not have the right to complain.

                While leaving the exact dynamics to be worked out by the families, perhaps such a service could help in providing equilibriums that some families would otherwise not be able to reach for themselves.

                A referendum then, might not have been a bad stepping stone to optimising the situation if wanted.

                • Morrissey

                  How much slapping and hitting with hairbrushes is acceptable for elderly people?

    • marty mars 16.2

      yeah the simpleton approach is always popular with gnats

    • ianmac 16.3

      What good stuff especially unexpected from Basher Collins. Unless she is just dancing clever politics. But wait. Many of her colleagues would disagree with her. So……

      • I feel love 16.3.1

        She reminds me of Nosher Powell's Prime Minister in Eat The Rich when he knocks the heads of the Palestinian & Israel leaders and tells them to "stop fighting & sort it out".

      • Chris 16.3.2

        Collins says whatever she feels like at the time. She doesn't listen and responds on the hoof. This will become immediately obvious if she's ever PM, perhaps just leader of the nats, and would be truly Trumpesque.

    • Incognito 16.4

      I actually think that it's good to hear some people saying they want to take some responsibility. I'll tell you what, just stop beating up kids, and you won't need Oranga Tamariki. [my bold]

      Crush their spirit, hit them where it hurts, and when they’re down, tell them to pick themselves up and then kick them down again and rinse and repeat. Tell them that it is all about making the right decisions and personal responsibility and they should stop beating their kids. That’s how they treat the Precariat. They are wilfully blind and tone-deaf to context and circumstances. I detest cynical populist politicians with their personal and selfish agendas and their hypocritical smugness.

  16. Fireblade 17

    Simon and the National Party are incompetent idiots.

    The Toyota Corolla model shown in the graphic is from the early 1990's. No one would import a vehicle that old.

    In the real world, a Corolla like the one below would be imported and in 2021, when the legislation would apply, this vehicle would be 5 years old.

    2016 Toyota Corolla, 1.8 Petrol CVT. 96 C02 (g/km). If this vehicle is imported, it would be eligible for a significant rebate.

    The National Party need to lift their game and stop making shit up.

    • Sacha 17.1

      They have taken the lesson from their chums in the US and UK that lying works.

  17. greywarshark 18

    Banks sometimes we love them and sometimes…. we ask awkward questions?

    When it comes to the risk mitigation costs arising from their own activities, the banks expect their customers to pick up the tab. Or taxpayers, as happened with the BNZ collapse of the late 1980s, and with the post–GFC collapse of non banking lenders like South Canterbury Finance. It was only ten years ago that governments had to bail 0ut a global banking system that (from the US to Scotland to the Netherlands) had been made vulnerable by the banks’ own lobbying for lax regulation and the pursuit of dodgy lending practices. If the banks have already forgotten the GFC, the rest of us haven’t.

  18. Rosemary McDonald 19

    A grown man weeps for the destruction of his whenua, his life.

    How the power of a state agency can divide and rule by wooing one group and dismissing another.

    • greywarshark 19.1

      There was an option to widen the one-way Awakino tunnel which seems to be one of the biggest problems. There is mention of accidents, and from what I have seen of driving in the rural sector, this is because of excessive speed for the conditions.

      Report for Mt Messenger Alliance (who are they).

      It is interesting that if one wants to look at one of the numerous maps of the area that is noted as nzta, it won't come up individually to be expanded but just switches over to the group of area maps. That is unusual as I can normally hone in to get a good view, but not here.

      Found this for 13 April 2017, (all MPs in the area are National)

      and for 21 October 2017

      Taranaki's elected MPs say they are confident the region will not become a political backwater now that it is not represented in government.

      The three MPs, Jonathan Young (New Plymouth), Barbara Kuriger​ (Taranaki King Country) and newcomer Hirate Hipango​ (Whanganui), face the next three years in opposition for the first time since 2008.

      Major roading and housing projects earmarked for the region would still go ahead under the three party Labour/New Zealand First/ Green coalition government, they say….

      A decision to mine iron sand off the South Taranaki coastline could also be up for change, depending on the new government's position after a High Court appeal is heard.

      The trio hoped coalition partner New Zealand First's focus on regional issues would help retain skills and job training for people in Taranaki.

      Kuriger said New Zealand First leader Winston Peters campaigned for provincial rural communities during the election.

      The National MPs have been in a political hiatus under National apparently but pushed through the expensive roading option to get it on the books before another election, which National lost.

      Former Taranaki King Country MP Shane Ardern said the Mt Messenger project could still be overturned….

      Ardern famously drove a tractor up the steps of parliament to protest against a methane emissions bill.

      He was critical of the MMP voting system. "I don't like MMP, I think it is a rotten system. "What we've got now is a group of losers who have cobbled together to chop off the winners.

      Noticeable in what I have skimmed through is no emphasis on saving environment or kokako or kiwi. There is talk of tourism but no feeling that could include special areas for endangered species. Just the usual bull-headed, unchanging obeisance to saving minutes of driving time. WTF. And concern about accidents, well let's face it, a lot of that could be avoided by making people sit regular driving checks on simulators. That would save more lives and injuries, and squillions of dollars on roading and written off vehicles. And having a licence would be a treasure. The emphasis should not be making it so hard to get a licence, but ensure a reasonably competent driver stays proud of their competence.

      • Rosemary McDonald 19.1.1

        There was an article about this couple back in 2017…

        ..and a quick scan of the Comments section gives a good indication of the neanderthal numpties who are demanding the destruction of our ever diminishing and degraded indigenous forests and waterways so they can GO FASTER.

        Yes. I'd help dig out another lane in the Tunnel with my bare hands if that would satisfy the drongoes for whom being forced to spend an unnecessary six minutes driving slowly through near virgin forest is torture.

        Believe me…it is a heavenly drive.

        • greywarshark

          I see it as a National Party MP push – look what we do for Taranaki.

          And I don't think they have in Naki got a lot more understanding of other values beside farming and money since Parihaka. I am prepared to be taken to task – but it's a feeling I have from my short experience there and what Ive read.

      • weston 19.1.2

        Totally agree with ya grey on the driving simulators etc Im fairly certain we could all benefit from more and better driver training .Much better direction i think to be going in than one of ever expanding use of barriers etc personally i find some roads to be like driving through a cattle race !plus any scenic value is erased along with technically the risk ! .I shudder to think what might be ahead of us as drivers prob something like a complete shield along the sides of roads along with robotic control .Cars will probably still keep their steering wheels but only so we dont feel like completely useless idiots and can still pretend at least to be driving ! So risk adverse will society have become by then that its likely we'll all have to suck on dummies while we drive in case we bite our tongues if a bug hits the windscreen if theres any bugs left by then of course

        • greywarshark

          Ver funny weston and prophetic too. Think of the kiddy cars in the supermarkets.

  19. ianmac 20

    How sad for Sir John.

    Investors in Ross Asset Management – New Zealand's largest ponzi scheme – are taking legal action against ANZ bank over how it managed the accounts for the failed financial advice firm. ….

    So far 200 investors have signed up to take the claim which could run into the tens of millions of dollars depending on how many more investors sign up.

    • ianmac 20.1

      But I suppose a successful claim would be paid for by the customers and not any of the Directors. Damn.

      • Morrissey 20.1.1

        It's like when he "committed" New Zealand troops to Iraq: no personal involvement at all. Unless that useless son of his has signed up?

  20. Morrissey 21

    What the hell is going on here? Why can't I access Hansard?

    I've been trying to get on to the Hansard site in order to track down a horrible speech in favour of child-beating by the Dishonorable Judith Collins. I tried several times but this is all I got…..

    Your connection is not private

    Attackers might be trying to steal your information from (for example, passwords, messages, or credit cards).


    Automatically report details of possible security incidents to Google. Privacy policy

    What is wrong here? Why can't I get through? Has anyone else had this problem with accessing Hansard?

  21. Morrissey 22

    Bastards. I thought as much.

  22. greywarshark 23

    Farmers ceased to be a store that considered itself a family store decades ago. Now it's a private equity handbag accessory I think.

    Lynda Kamariera had been at the company for almost 23 years and said workers were some of the lowest-paid retail staff in the country.

    "They value themselves as being a family story but the families who work inside Farmers are finding they're struggling."

    After more than two decades at the company, Lynda's pay had yet to reach the current rate living wage of $20.55 an hour, which was due to go up in September to $21.15.

    The situation was just continuing to get more desperate for staff, she said.

    "There are workers that have taken out loans to get car repairs so they can come to work."

  23. Anne 24

    Jesus wept! It's premium so can't see the full article but if we "accept the USA's invitation” and go to war with Iran, there will be hell to pay.

  24. Andre 25

    This probably makes more sense and is more coherent than what was actually said.

  25. The Chairman 26

    A group of investors in New Zealand's largest Ponzi scheme has accused the ANZ of negligence in its role as banker of the company, Ross Asset Management.

    Former commercial lawyer, John Strahl, who is acting as a spokesman for the group said the action would have started years ago, but ANZ took legal action against the financial regulator, the Financial Markets Authority to prevent it sharing the finding of its investigation.

    ANZ strongly denies the allegations and will be defending the claim.

  26. Morrissey 27


    From 2004 to 2017, when she was a San Francisco D.A. and then the Attorney General of California, Kamala Harris was a key figure in the institutional oppression of black and Latino citizens. She did not speak out against the wicked and iniquitous "three strikes" travesty of a law, and she contended, to the anger and consternation of black and civil rights groups, that local police should be allowed to investigate themselves after killing people. She supported the outrageous, controversial 2011 California truancy legislation that made criminals of poor and disadvantaged parents throughout the state.

    She has also foolishly swallowed—hook, line, and sinker—the Bellingcat/U.K. government's disinformation campaigns about Syria, and has spoken at AIPAC conferences, where she boasted: "The first resolution I co-sponsored as a United States senator was to combat anti-Israel bias at the United Nations." The AIPAC delegates applauded that little speech almost as loudly as they cheer a nurse being shot and killed by IDF snipers in Gaza.

    In the following puff piece from—you guessed it!—CNN, there is an unintentionally amusing, and sadly quite accurate, bit of blithering from an uncritical supporter….

    Veronica Thomas, a 38-year-old phlebotomist from outside Columbia, likened Harris to former President Barack Obama.

    "It was powerful. It was moving, it stirred emotions. We're due for change. I felt like Obama all over again."

  27. Puckish Rogue 28

    'They claimed that some inmates at Auckland Prison, Paremoremo, which houses New Zealand's only specialist maximum-security prison unit, never got the ice blocks, with officers refusing to give them to "dirty crims".'

    Good, all it will do is create more problems.

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    2 weeks ago
  • Government announces agriculture delegations to better support Primary sector
    The coalition Government has announced ministerial delegations to support key areas across the Primary sector to deliver for New Zealand’s food and fibre sector, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I will be supported in my roles as Minister of Agriculture, Trade, Forestry and Hunting and Fishing, by three Associate ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Waikato MoU reinforces Govt’s commitment to increase NZ doctors
    The Government has taken an important step forward in addressing a critical shortage of New Zealand-trained doctors, with today’s signing of a Memorandum of Understanding for a third medical school, Minister of Health Dr Shane Reti has announced.  “Today’s signing by the Ministry of Health and the University of Waikato ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech – Lunar New Year 2024
    Annyeonghaseyo, greetings and welcome all. It is my pleasure as the Minister for Ethnic Communities to welcome you to the first Lunar New Year Event in Parliament. Thank you to our emcees for greeting us in the different languages that represent the many cultures that celebrate the Lunar New Year. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • More funding to Hawke’s Bay and Tairāwhiti
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    2 weeks ago
  • Budget will be delivered on 30 May
    Plans to deliver tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders, rebuild business confidence and restore the Crown’s finances to order will be unveiled on 30 May, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The plans will be announced in the Budget which is currently being developed by Ministers.  “The last government’s mismanagement of ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government advances Local Water Done Well
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    2 weeks ago
  • Minister congratulates NZQA Top Scholars
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    2 weeks ago
  • New diplomatic appointments
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    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to the Committee for Auckland
    It is great to be here today at this event as Minister for Auckland and Minister ofTransport. Let me start by acknowledging each one of you and thanking the Committee forAuckland for hosting this event and inviting me to speak here today. The Committee for Auckland has been a symbol ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Getting Transport Back on Track in Auckland
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today confirmed his high-level transport priorities for Auckland, in the lead up to releasing the draft Government Policy Statement on Land Transport. “Our economic growth and productivity are underpinned by a transport network that enables people and freight to move around safely and efficiently. At ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government to axe Auckland Regional Fuel Tax
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    2 weeks ago
  • Minister Calls for Work to Tackle Kina Barrens
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    2 weeks ago

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