Open mike 12/09/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 12th, 2022 - 65 comments
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65 comments on “Open mike 12/09/2022 ”

  1. Ad 1

    Haere Mai ki te whanau o te wiki o te Maori.

    Here's a task Lynn: Te Reo macrons in text

  2. KJT 2

    Like this?


    Hold your key down, and a choice of macrons and the like for that letter pops up.

  3. Sanctuary 3

    Following on from Advantages post yesterday, here is a video of Ukrainian soldiers singing their national anthem on the eve of their successful Kharkiv offensive.

    What to make of this? Who would have thought that in 2022 we would see such things. We've been taught patriotism, dying for your country, fighting for freedom is all so much blather. The shadow of Passchendaele has sat over us all as a dark warning for over a century. The ideals encapsulated by this image are almost an anathema to 21st century liberal sensibilities.

    I've seen other images like this, grainy black and white photos from the Great War, or world war 2. You know that many of those in the grainy phtographs, like many of these men, will soon be dead. What a waste. You want to weep, at the loss of life and in fury and anger that one man – Putin – could cause so many men to sternly take up arms and willingly die in service of abstract and unfashionable ideals like patriotism and freedom.

    Yet every man watching this would have to have a heart of stone if a lump didn't form in their throat watching men on the eve of battle display their belief in and determination and willingness to die for their cause. These are men on their St. Crispen's day.

    Anyway, if you need to know why war is so awful and yet why it is so necessary sometimes to fight just look at these men. And remember all they want from us is to be the arsenal of freedom.

  4. PsyclingLeft.Always 4

    nat MP Joseph Mooney. And his "concern" about Hospitality Workers. Yeah right….

    "I’ve talked to some hospitality people and the look in their eyes and their body language is pretty worrying — they’re under so much pressure."

    He actually means the Business OWNERS. Who want BAU. Cheap Immigrant workers….who they can then resume bullying….and paying the absolute minimum they can get away with.

    Southland MP Joseph Mooney is keen to hear hospitality workers' experiences.

    "Cruel" ? fucks sake! Cry me a river of crocodile tears you jerk.

    Cmon Mooney…talk to the actual low paid WORKERS ! You of course wont want to hear.
    And imagine ..trying to actually live in Qtown/wanaka ….on the “pay” !

    • DB Brown 4.1

      Alliteration for the day.

      NZ media – The trotting out of Tory twats tearfully traumatised over trivia.

    • Mmmmm. Not dissing your interpretation of what Mooney is concerned over.

      But many of the front-line workers I know (both personally, and through dining out, shopping, etc.) are under a huge amount of pressure.

      When there are not enough staff to cover, when new staff are thrown into the job with no training, when people leave (because of a better offer), when customers are ratty, rude or even violent (Covid, lower grade service, general stress themselves), it's the existing staff – not (in general) the business owner – who have to step up and be stretched thinner to cover.

      We've seen this in the nursing workforce (friends who are nurses, as well as media reports).

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 4.2.1

        Mmmmm. Not dissing your interpretation of what Mooney is concerned over.


        Yea had you here..before. Concerntrolling. Howsabout respond…to what I actually stated.

        And imagine ..trying to actually live in Qtown/wanaka ….on the “pay” !

        And..Wellington..or Auckland !

        And see you sidle Nurse workforce into it. Ha. Read you like a book.

        • Belladonna

          Housing is unaffordable everywhere.

          And, if you think that pay is the only stressor for workers, then we'll just have to disagree.

          Working in a business which is short of staff (for whatever reason) is stressful for the staff.

          Labour has continuously raised the minimum wage through this term in government. Are you saying that it's not enough? And, actually, most of the businesses locally (Auckland, as it happens) are paying over minimum wage rates right now.

          Yanno, if you perceive that every issue I comment on is "concerntrolling" – then you can't really have a debate. I suggest that's got more to do with your bias, than mine.

    • Tricledrown 4.3

      The wages are so low that no locals want to work ungodly hours for less than the cost of living . Accommodation is a nightmare cost and availability then heating costs in the likes of Queenstown means working is slavery in the hospitality sector. freedom campers were able to work but that sector has dried up and won't ever provide the numbers required again. This has exposed the National parties economic strategy of fixing labour shortages by importing cheap labour and allowing them to be enslaved.Time after Time we see many of these workers tied into bonded labour ripped off and put into slavery with employers charging exorbitant accommodation fees, not paying wages ,wage theft abuse etc migrant workers not able to change jobs. National defunded labour dept (MOBIE) inspectors and rarely prosecuted offenders. Grant Robertson needs to front foot this Tory propaganda.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 4.3.1

        And Aye ..Tricledrown. Qtown in particular…a rich rats nest of that kind of Worker exploitation. And indeed. ..Labour does need to Pushback hard on Mp Mooney..and the other nat disingenuous BS.

        Support our Workers…Business owners are never going to vote..other than nact. Its in their DNA

        • As Peter Frazer said: "they walked to the polls in 1935 to vote us in, and drove to the polls in 1949 to vote us out."

          He was referring to farmers, but the same applies to business-people.

  5. Bill Drees 5

    The Commonwealth. A term used a lot in the coverage of the monarchy change.

    Up to now I viewed it as a silly pretendy thing.

    I now see it as a pernicious tool to whitewash colonial history and to frame racism as benign behaviour. Aotearoa must now exit the Commonwealth.

    • roy cartland 5.2

      yes The name is deceptive. The wealth is taken from the commoners.

    • solkta 5.3

      So why haven't countries such as South Africa and India left the Commonwealth?

      • roy Cartland 5.3.1

        Devil-you-know maybe? Ditch the monarch as head of state, stay in the CW?

        • Bill Drees

          The Commonwealth org has a budget smaller than that of Invercargill council! What to we do through that org that we can’t do better directly?

      • Belladonna 5.3.2

        Costs a hell of a lot to keep electing/appointing a new head of government. Not to mention the divisiveness of the campaigns (try looking at the US or France for examples).

        And, for what benefit? A figurehead which some may perceive as 'ours'….

        • solkta

          South Africa and India have been republics for a long time.

        • Grey Area

          False equivalence. It will likely be less than the Governor-General costs.

          When NZ becomes a republic I suspect we will not change our whole system so the process need not be costly. Our first president will likely be head of state while the PM will remain head of government.

          As the link says – which I've just backed up from an Irish newspaper – the office of the president of Ireland costs an equivalent of just under $8million, including $2.9million for centenarian "bounties".

          The president of Ireland (with about the same population as ours) serves for seven years. So we'd have got three terms of presidents or 21 years for one Shonkey flag referendum.

          Would have been good value I reckon.

          • Belladonna

            Unless our GG is being wildly extravagant (which doesn't seem to be the case from the attached expenditure) – it's difficult to see how having an elected head of state would cost less. Costs of travel, salary and government building maintenance aren't going to decrease – because someone is elected rather than appointed.

            I note, that there is no amount in the blog for the cost of running an election (with election expenses of 200,000 euros per candidate being able to be claimed back). It's not clear whether this presidential election is held at the same time as other elections. If not, the cost of simply holding the election would be substantial.


            But, setting aside money. The element that I don't want to see is the divisive nature of the elections. As seen in the US and France (for example) – or even in the 2018 Irish election campaign.

            • Grey Area

              Unless our GG is being wildly extravagant (which doesn't seem to be the case from the attached expenditure) – it's difficult to see how having an elected head of state would cost less.

              Ah.. No. As I said based on official figures having a G-G costs NZ more than the Irish presidency costs Ireland.


              The element that I don't want to see is the divisive nature of the elections.

              So you won't be a fan of general elections either then. They're pretty divisive.

              I can't see any parallel to France or the US anyway. They have totally different systems of government than we do and still would, I'd be confident, once we finally cut ties with the British monarchy and become a republic which I believe we inevitably will.

              There are 56 countries in the Commonwealth and we’re part of a small minority who cling on the British monarch as their head of state.

              Now Elizabeth II is gone, hopefully the pace towards a republic will gain more momentum.

              Time to

        • Bill Drees

          The successful HoS model that is most often suggested for New Zealand is that of Ireland.

          Look it up on wiki.

      • observer 5.3.3

        In fact countries have actually joined the Commonwealth, even those with minimal links to the UK (Mozambique, Cameroon).

        It has no effect at all on their own governance. They get to do a bit more sport though.

    • Peter 5.4

      A different view today from Kehinde Andrews, professor of Black studies at Birmingham City University and author of "New Age of Empire: How Racism and Colonialism Still Rule the World."

      "As the world waited for confirmation of the queen's death on Thursday, and as family members sped to hear royal vacation residence in Scotland, social media posts began going viral demanding that no one speak ill of the queen, out of respect for her loyal subjects. But the queen had many subjects, and they do not all mourn equally." …

      "Millions of people are mourning Queen Elizabeth II this weekend, as is their right. But millions more are hoping her death marks the end of the monarchy — and you need only to open a history book to understand why."

      • Bill Drees 5.4.1

        Thank you for that posting, Peter.

        There is a well informed and well considered debate going on around the world at this time. One of the English Queens’s roles at the time of here accession was to continue the benefits and influence they had as a colonial power. The Commonwealth Org is part of that. It is still a colonial tool. If Kiwis can’t have a debate about the past they will miss opportunities to build a better future.

  6. observer 6

    I thought I was joking yesterday. But it turns out …

    Business opposes public holiday even when Head of State dies after 70 years

    Apparently NZ is unique, the UK and Australia have no economic problems at all.

    Personally I'm not that bothered, but it really does expose the grief-performing for the fraud that it is. Looking forward to the furious "how dare they!" editorials … but of course they are only for the disloyal lefties. Is Hosking sobbing at Business NZ?

  7. Blazer 7

    'That seems to be what is so very, very different about the worldview shared by the likes of Liz Truss, Christopher Luxon and David Seymour. Wealth tends to be seen by them as personal property, and thus devoid of any sense of social obligation, or of even a basic recognition that this wealth may have been gained – partly at least – through the advantages of privilege and patronage. Today’s wealthy elites have little compunction about engaging in conspicuous consumption, since they believe their own spin that this wealth has been the byproduct of individual effort, innate ability and divine provenance. Generally speaking, it has been no such thing.(my bold)

    Gorden Campbell in fine form.

    On What The Rise Of Liz Truss Signals For Us | Scoop News

    • Ad 7.1

      I don't share his interpretation.

      I view our displays of wealth as more akin to the Danish; subtle and few and far between. Our networked intermarriages, family trusts, and extreme narrowness of wealth leave very little room for ostentation. The truly rich keep it tight and out of sight mostly.

      If you want to observe them like birdwatchers, you are most likely to find such elites at Moore Wilson's at 11am on a Saturday morning, deep in wintry alpine retreats around Queenstown, or simply lolling far from shore in substantial pleasure craft in the Hauraki Gulf and Bay of Islands, way out of sight or scrutiny.

      It's only sensible.

      • Blazer 7.1.1

        Don't know about that…NZ's richest man has a huge 'toy' .He has more wealth than the next 3 or 4 combined.

        'M/Y Ulysses. Ulysses is a 116-meter expedition yacht, delivered by Kleven to New Zealand-based billionaire Graeme Richard Hart.She is the largest expedition yacht in the world, taking over the position from Luna.'

        Luxon trumpets his 'success'.

        Bob Jones is not known for modesty.

        The NBR List top 10

        1. Graeme Hart – $11b
        2. Todd family – $4.3b
        3. Goodman family – $3.1b
        4. Mowbray family – $2.5b
        5. Michael Friedlander – $2b
        6. Rod Drury – $1.95b
        7. Talley family – $1.2b
        8. Bob Jones – $1.1b
        9. Bruce Plested – $1.02b
        10. Jim and Rosemari Delegat – $1.01b

        2,3,5,10-keep a low profile.

        • Ad

          It is very difficult to ever see Graeme Hart in public. The yacht keeps him well out of sight.

          The Talley's main houses are very hard to find deep outside of Nelson. You have to work hard to find them.

          Jones after the 2018 petition is pretty quiet these days, generally enjoying his 80s.

          A good few of our 1-per-centers popped out of the woodwork for the Webbs BNZ collection auction preview last Saturday, and the auction next Sunday in Auckland will be a moment for them to emerge out beyond their drawbridges and rattle their jewellery in unison.

        • Jimmy

          Graeme Hart keeps a pretty low profile too. He is occasionally seen out in public.

          He's done pretty well for someone who left school at 16.

      • Finn McCool 7.1.2

        Yes, I agree Ad. Any rich lister flaunting wealth in NZ has a death wish. Most know the prevailing attitude towards wealth many NZers hold, so they arrange their life to be under the radar as much as possible. I think that’s the beauty of wealth – you can configure your life to the way you want it, and not have someone else telling you ‘ how it’s going to be.’

  8. Bearded Git 8

    Great discussion on CC in relation to airline CC offsets just heard on RNZ-see link below. University of Otago Professor James Higham rips apart the current offset schemes.

    (Only 7% of customers of AirNZ opted into the ineffective “FlyNeutral” scheme anyway)

    At one point he says that in order to offset the number of tourists annually COMING to NZ (this excludes Kiwi's leaving) prior to Covid, NZ would have to plant an area the size of Stewart Island EVERY YEAR.

    He says we have to fly less often and stay at the destination flown to much longer and he is keen on Simon Upston's CC tax to be paid by people both coming into NZ and leaving NZ. (I don't know what the level of tax he is proposing but I'm guessing it would be $200-300 per person) The money raised would be ringfenced for CC initiatives.

    • aj 8.1

      I found that discussion depressing.

      • Bearded Git 8.1.1

        get used to it aj-I found it realistic.

        There has been so much self-serving rubbish talked about offsetting airline CC effects in the media that to hear someone who knew what he was talking about telling it as it is was refreshing and informative.

        I flew from Queenstown to Wellington to watch Midnight Oil this week. I simply will not do this type of trip any more.

  9. Poission 9

    Swedish right take lead in elections,with a focus on gang crime,immigration and energy constraints,

    Similar with Italy's right leading in polls in runup to election.

  10. Adrian 10

    The rich here are different, you can unknowingly be speaking to one of them anywhere and not be aware of the wealth they hold. I once had an unpretentious restaurant’s door held open for the two of us who had been perusing the menu, it was Michael Fay and wife who asked if we were going in as they didn’t want to jump the queue. Impressed by Colin Giltraps reaction while waiting in a lunch bar who replied to the young woman at the counter when he indicated that I was next to be served.. probably because I stunk in my fiberglassiing work gear, but maybe not. When as delivery driver delivering a large chair to Lady Todd, was offered a cup of tea and a tour of the house, all built around the view of the Kelburn cricket club. The first one I saw was when I was about 5 or 6 and I must have said something to dad about an old gentleman in a old suit with the trousers held up with binder twine and Dad told me he was the richest man in the South Island. Pretentious.. yeah, nah. I’m sure there are a few others I didn’t recognise along the way. This is the NZ way and we should be thankful we have it. There are of course exceptions but as Thomasin McKenzie said on Colbert’s Tonight show when he asked about the tall poppies in NZ and she said “ We are just not that keen on arseholes “.

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