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Open mike 12/05/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 12th, 2016 - 119 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

119 comments on “Open mike 12/05/2016 ”

  1. Tom Pained 1

    Peter Thiel – Key’s neighbour in Parnell – is backing Trump.

    • Pasupial 1.1

      That’s; Peter “Palantir” Thiel? Surveillance software crafter for USA spy agencies & LotR fan.

    • joe90 1.2

      Thiel rejects democ­racy and has a problem with women voting.

      But I must confess that over the last two decades, I have changed radically on the question of how to achieve these goals. Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible. By tracing out the development of my thinking, I hope to frame some of the challenges faced by all classical liberals today.


      The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.


      More on Thiel –


      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

        Sounds like he’s figured out that capitalism and democracy are polar opposites and he’s come down in favour of capitalism and dictatorship.

  2. Tautoko Mangō Mata 2

    Encouraging news on TPP
    Hatch Says White House Fails To Move On Biologics, Signals TPP Vote Has 50-50 Chance

    Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-UT) today (May 11) said the White House remains unwilling to move beyond five years of market exclusivity for biologics in the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) rather than the 12 years he is seeking, and warned that the administration’s failure to change on the issue would essentially kill chances for a Senate vote on the agreement.

  3. Robert Busnac 3

    With all the discussion about the direction of Labour, it seems to me the best way to bring them back into the fold of the people is for everyone to join and make change from within.. There is certainly little point in going on Facebook and getting into rants about it.. the elite love that we do it…. because at the end of the day we just end up vomiting our disgust, anger and frustration and find ourselves sated and empty. Bring it into the real world..

  4. Penny Bright 4

    VERY well spoken Green MP Kennedy Graham – outlining what a crock is the NZ Parliamentary process regarding the TPPA.

    I recommend you watch this – less than 5 minutes.

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

    (The only Auckland Mayoral candidate who is and has been actively opposed to NZ signing and ratifying the TPPA).

    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 4.1

      Penny has highlighted the consistency of abuses of process by this government regarding the TPP. It is SHAMEFUL.
      Link relating to Penny’s post below.

      Dr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green): I rise to address the issue of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). It is just as well that I am doing so for 5 minutes in the general debate because there is no other chance for any member of Parliament to address the treaty as a treaty. Yesterday the Green Party proposed that the select committee report on the treaty, tabled 2 days ago, be subject to a parliamentary debate. The proposal was rejected. That is extraordinary because the TPP is one of the most important treaties to affect New Zealand in many years, yet the Government, unwavering in the belief that it knows best, feels no obligation to have the treaty examination by the select committee debated in Parliament. It is required under the Standing Orders to have debates, three readings, and a plenary Committee, in fact, on the implementing legislation but not on the prior policy issue of the merits of the treaty itself.


    • Sacha 4.2

      “watch this”

      You have included no link, so that’s a tad tricky to achieve.

  5. Rosemary McDonald 5

    What’s new???

    Grown up beat child. Child’s older sister tells another grown up, (a grown up from a respected anti domestic violence organisation), that grown up asks the abusing grown up and the abusing grown up denies the abuse and blames the older sister.

    Clear? Read it here….http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/79772891/sister-told-social-worker-moko-being-abused

    Some of us challenged Women’s Refuge….and,

    “Its untrue” says Chief Executive of Women’s Refuge Dr Ang Jury.

    “Women’s Refuge has a robust Child Abuse Reporting Protocol in place and if a disclosure of this kind had been made to us, it would have resulted in an immediate notification of concern to CYF. In this case the information provided to us was around child to child interaction and not at a level for us to have considered that these allegations were serious enough for a notification to Child, Youth and Family.” ”

    Since the first article actually quotes the manager of Te Whare Oranga Wairua Maori Women’s Refuge in Taupo,

    …”said that Marama phoned Shailer to ask if that were true and Shailer blamed the seven year old for the abuse. Marama believed Shailer, even though the refuge was aware Shailer herself had escaped from a violent relationship with Haerewa and had returned to that relationship after Haerewa was let out of prison. ”

    Someone is lying.


    • Rosemary McDonald 5.1

      And, if you all want this put into a clever sounding political context…

      This is what happens when you turn an advocacy group into an NGO.

      Give them a Contract with the Government…they are no longer doing actual fucking advocacy…they are now “providing services.”

      The advocate becomes the Chief Executive Officer….

      • Jenny Kirk 5.1.1

        and what is more, Rosemary McD, the NGO cannot do any advocacy any more otherwise they lose their funding. Neoliberalism has turned genuinely good caring organisations into “service providers” so they have to keep their mouths shut.
        Its just like the scientists who cannot speak out because their employer will also lose their funding.
        But in the case of children – much more serious. What a mess we (a collective we as in all of NZ) have made of our world.
        And now “gangs” of youngsters are terrorising other kids on their way to and from school.
        Maybe if this govt concentrated on dealing with the social ills at home, rather than on the so-called terrorism elsewhere, we’d get an improvement. But don’t hold your breath. From the way ShonKey is playing games in Parliament nothing good is going to come from his govt any time soon.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          Thank you Jenny, what I would have said had I the time earlier…but you put it so much better than I would.


          “When the funder calls the tune decisions are made by the funder about the legitimacy of the cause.
          Therefore, one of the issues facing voluntary organisations is that of “politicised” funding – their
          budgets are “generated by a political process” (Edwards & Gummer, 1988, p2). Two factors which
          contribute to this politicised funding are identified by Edwards & Gummer, as firstly, disputes over
          goals and, secondly, problems with measurement of effectiveness.”

          I wrote about this having happened in the disability “sector”…see…even I am using corporate speak….

          There used to be steel toe capped booted activists….they wear lipstick and high heels now.

          These people have sold out for a few dollars, and the patina of ‘professionalism’.

          Dr Ang Jury’s statement reads like a press release from Exxon.

          Shame on her.

      • greywarshark 5.1.2

        Rosemary McDonald
        You are exactly right. The government has help groups like Refuge by the short and curlies. They are unable to do the work they were formed to do. The government funds them for only part of their concerns.

        Some years ago it was the case that government would only fund wages and not enough for the rooms, equipment, maintenance, sundries which were needed to operate and that had to be raised elsewhere. So they are better than cardboard cutouts that give the appearance of presence, but they are disabled as far as the complexity and intensity of the job requires to do it thoroughly.

        This morning someone on Radionz said that social workers at CYF or somewhere are limited in time to actually work with their clients. There is some form with an acronym like KITS that has to be filled in requiring much time and they are sitting at a desk filing information required rather than working in the field.
        The whole outlook of government is based on lack of trust of ordinary people, and not paying out gummint revenue to entities not achieving quick results. This is the link to what I was listening to.

        Calls for offenders to be screened for neurodisability
        9:18 AM.Neurodisabilities can range from learning differences like dyslexia, through to Foetal Alcohol Syndrome Disorder, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and Autism Spectrum Disorder. Research suggests that people with neurodisabilities are highly over-represented in prisons. Today a forum in Wellington, hosted by the Dyslexia Foundation, brings together representatives from the Justice Department, Police and a range of government ministries to explore the common and shared characteristics of neurodisabilites and why they may make people vulnerable when they come into contact with police or the courts. We speak to Chair of the NZ Institute for Educational and Developmental Psychologists Rose Blackett and Eleanor Bensemann, who raised her grandson who has FASD.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          Re- screening offenders for neurodisabilities…we were having that conversation in the eighties….

          Re- the Flaxmere suicides. All of those girls were known to CYFs. I Iistened peripherally to that, I’m sure I head someone from a Community Organisation saying that the families should do better. Hmmm…must follow up on that later.

          Re- declawed advocacy…these people, with their oh so respectable sounding titles…have they so permanently lost their ethical way that they are blind to their failings? That they can carefully construct a press release and think that absolves them of guilt? And truly believe that most will fall for it?

          Be damned about “not sufficient resources”…Te Whare Oranga Wairua Maori Women’s Refuge in Taupo were close to Moko’s murderer…she was doing a social work course for god’s sakes…Trina Marama could have popped round for a coffee and checked on the child…

          They have lost their way, and a child died.

          I used to support Women’s Refuge…they did Good Work.

          Not. Any. More.

    • Maz 5.2

      Indeed Rosemary. I too, am shocked at the many times Moko could have been saved, but for the lack of intervention at many levels, he wasn’t.

      Again, we see a breakdown in communication where other immediate and extended whanau members, agencies and departments had not considered for one moment, that these children needed to be removed from this horrifying situation, immediately. There were enough red flags to remove the children and then undertake further investigations. After all, to err on the side of safety in these circumstances, is to save a child.

      Sadly, here we are, trying to make sense of the loop holes that still exist within our government agencies. They are meant to be a child’s first and last line of defence, but once again, they have failed.

      As a past CYF carer and a subsequent mother of a carer, I became concerned about the disclosure and, just as importantly, the non disclosure of information that affected the outcome of decisions made by CYF in my case. I won’t go into detail for obvious reasons, but needless to say, I placed my complete trust in the system. However, it became quite clear to me, that the serious issues I raised as a result of my observations and concerns of, and about the children went no further than the rooms these were discussed in. I sensed a ‘just keep it between you and us’ attitude.

      …and as I have recently discovered, when a government agent claims ‘there is no documentation of any discussion on that matter.’ The chances are, the issues were discussed and documented or discussed and not documented…then conveniently filed away in the ‘hear, see and do nothing’ file.

      My areas of concern go beyond this blog, but I do think, that in the very first instance, CYFs and other agencies need to raise and extend their levels of enquiry. Don’t discount the utterings of a child. In this case, his sister was his only link to survival. I don’t believe for one moment that no adult knew about the horrors unfolding in that household. I shudder, with disappointment and disgust at realising that another child’s death could have been avoided.

      Let’s keep up the debate on this issue Rosemary…well done.

      • Rosemary McDonald 5.2.1

        Maz. What can I say? As foster carers to some 60 children, our relationship with CYFs ended when the only option we had to give a little more hope to a wee babe and his young, stigmatised mum was by making an official complaint to the Children’s Commission. We were not the first foster parents to do so.

        My partner and I for weeks took it in turns to phone CYFs regarding this child in our care. Every day. The Court gave them the barrel up…yet still they sat on their hands. Time flies for a little one.

        After all was sorted, CYFs had the fucking audacity to tell us we should have communicated with them better.

        When I am in charge of training ‘social workers’, they would spend at least one day per week reading all the Court and media reports of cases where CYFs and other agencies have stuffed up and a child has died. With pictures.

        It is far better to over react to a complaint and have to apologise for the error, than this horror.

        “Let’s keep up the debate on this issue.”


    • Daveosaurus 5.3

      The elephant in the room here is that, between July and August 2009, 1,470,755 people posted forms in to the returning officers telling them that there wasn’t enough violence against children in New Zealand, and that they wanted more of it. Until such time as this vile attitude is addressed, little children will continue to be murdered by violent thugs in the mass quantities that they are today.

      A possible start would be information sharing between CYF and the electoral office: for the names of the 300,000 or so people who signed Larry Baldock’s petition in the first place to be red-flagged as people who are in favour of violent abuse against children.

      • music4menz 5.3.1

        Perhaps it might be more accurate for you to have written [BLiP: Deleted racist crap. First and last warning].

  6. save nz 6

    Auckland inches closer to motorway toll

    Now who do you think this tax will affect the most as a percentage of their income?

    People on local wages trying to get into work or those who have money to burn?

    If the government had not increased the population of Auckland at staggering proportions each year and driven locals from housing and congesting the motorways, now their new plan to start a tax which will affect the working poor the most.

    Wonder why the working and middle class think National and Labour are the same?

    Yet another way to tax struggling workers and the middle class. (The rich generally live closer in Auckland in Parnell etc, so they do not need to go across the motorway).

    • esoteric pineapples 6.1

      I’m going up to Auckland this weekend on one of my rare visits to the city. I’m staying overnight a couple of nights but not in the city during the day. Because of the stress of the traffic I wouldn’t consider spending an extra day or two and seeing the sights. As much as l use public transport would find that too difficult to get about the city as well. The point being that one of the unmentioned byproducts of the city’s crazy traffic is less incentive for visitors to spend time there.

    • Expat 6.2

      save nz

      Tolls on motorways are nothing new, but they are generally confined to new infrastructure, not existing, as existing has already been paid for, the Auckland Harbour bridge is a good example of where tolls have worked, and when paid for, the toll is removed.

      If the Govt intends to Toll existing motorways, then they’r just ripping everyone off, I’d rather see an increase in Alcohol Tax first.

      In Sydney I used to have drive through several tolled motorways each day at a weekly cost of $120, and then another $100 for fuel, these tolled motorways are privately built, and the toll will remain for ever, and just recently the state Govt allowed increases in the tolls which were not inline with inflation, again, just a rip off, but for many, there are no alternatives.

      You right about migration, the Govt should have spent money on infrastructure at the same rate as population increase, but instead they waited for roads to become clogged before recognising the problem, typical, piss poor management, the reactive style, the style that always fails to deliver.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1

        You right about migration, the Govt should have spent money on infrastructure at the same rate as population increase, but instead they waited for roads to become clogged before recognising the problem, typical, piss poor management, the reactive style, the style that always fails to deliver.

        Auckland’s roads have been clogged for decades. The usual method to address this was to simply build new roads but that’s obviously isn’t working as the roads just get even more clogged. National tried to say that more roads would do it but even they seem to be starting to wake up to the fact that it won’t.

        f the Govt intends to Toll existing motorways, then they’r just ripping everyone off

        Not really. In fact, it’d probably start saving lives both directly and indirectly as what the toll is for is to get people out of cars and onto public transport and it’ll probably work to fairly large extent.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Sir Dove-Myer Robinson on his Rapid Transit Scheme – Part 1

          Over the coming weeks I’ll publish all six articles, the first of which is below. One of the things that strikes me about them is that while some aspects have clearly dated, many of the core arguments are just as valid today as they were back over 40 years ago.

          The growing congestion and delays to traffic on the road system will be halted or reduced.
          The improved transport services throughout the whole region will be a direct benefit to non-motorists such as the elderly, the young, the sick, the disabled, and those who cannot afford, or do not wish to own and use private cars, about 50% of the population.

          Part 2
          Part 3

          Of course, the incoming National government scrapped those plans and left us with 40+ years of failed policy to deal with today.

        • Expat


          You can’t improve transport around a city by just Tolling existing roads, it doesn’t work as many cities have found, you first have to have an exceptional public transport system as the alternative, “first” being the operative word, a public transport system that is subsidised to keep the commuting costs down and entice people out of their cars.

          In the early 90’s, my wife used to drive from the North Shore to Parnell every day, the trip by car was about 20 mins, by 1996, that trip was averaging 45 mins, the cost then to use public transport for the same journey was $16 per day, it was only costing $8 per day to run the car in, there was no incentive to use public transport.

          The biggest problem with the existing public transport, is that its not flexible enough, ie: it doesn’t cater for those who work odd hours and those who need to get across the city diagonally, it assumes everyone wants to go to the city centre.

          And, yes, Sir Dove had an excellent foresight for the future of Auckland City (a shame no one listened), but NZ has a terrible reputation for only building infrastructure for “todays” demand, a classic example of this was the harbour bridge, commissioned May 1959, with 4 lanes, two each way, by 1973, the bridge simply couldn’t cope with the traffic and subsequently 2 more lanes were added (the nippon clip ons) as they were referred to, if you look at the Sydney harbour bridge, built in 1923, it’s original construction had 6 lanes, 3 each way and 2 rail lines, it was in the mid 80’s when capacity was exceeded and the under harbour tunnel was constructed, today, the combination of the two are now not meeting the demand, in 1923 when Bradfield built the bridge with 6 lanes, everyone laughed at him for being so exorbitant, but he was designing for the future, he was responsible for most of the early infrastructure in Sydney including the rail network.

          With regard to saving lives on the road, it wouldn’t matter if you halved the number of vehicles as it’s not the volume that is the problem, it’s the extremely poor driving skills of todays drivers, there has been no increase in the difficulty for obtaining a driving license, since I got mine in the 70’s, yet traffic volumes have increased, requiring a higher standard, so to counter the poor driving skills, road speeds are reduced, again, another example of this is the Dome Valley, reduced to 80 kph due to the high incident rate, most of which are from vehicles crossing the centre line on corners, drivers today fail to adhere to the basic road code of keeping left and failing to give way when required, pulling out in front of an on coming vehicle travelling at 100 kph when all they had to do is have some patients and wait a few more seconds.

          Where I live in NZ, there is no public transport at all, I live 25 kms from the nearest shops, a car is a necessity.

          Also, the high tax on fuel in NZ is supposed to be invested back into improving roading, yet, the money seems to be spent on other things, as the roading infrastructure doesn’t appear to be making much headway, you pay upto 80 cents per litre more for fuel in NZ than across the ditch, that should pay for a lot of improvements.

          • Draco T Bastard

            DracoYou can’t improve transport around a city by just Tolling existing roads, it doesn’t work as many cities have found, you first have to have an exceptional public transport system as the alternative, “first” being the operative word, a public transport system that is subsidised to keep the commuting costs down and entice people out of their cars.

            That is certainly a valid point and one that needs to be taken into account. Especially as buses in Auckland are already full to bursting and are unable to take on any more passengers. That said AT are addressing it slowly. Buses are about to get new frequency of every 15 minutes and trains are going to be running every 10 and each is going to be better integrated as will.

            Still a long way to go but it is being worked on.

            And, yes, Sir Dove had an excellent foresight for the future of Auckland City (a shame no one listened), but NZ has a terrible reputation for only building infrastructure for “todays” demand,

            New Zealand builds cheap and then wonders why things don’t work as expected. It’s gotten worse over the last few decades as the governments lie to us by telling is that we can always have everything cheaper.

            The biggest problem with the existing public transport, is that its not flexible enough, ie: it doesn’t cater for those who work odd hours and those who need to get across the city diagonally, it assumes everyone wants to go to the city centre.

            That too is a concern but I believe that AT are addressing that as well. It’s certainly easier to get to South Auckland from West Auckland than it used to be. In fact, IIRC, you never used to be able to. Still needs work though – two hours to get across town is ridiculous.

    • greywarshark 6.3

      If the toll was used to provide better PT then overall good would come from the pain of paying tolls. But looking at the Transport Blog about Auckland’s situation, I see an analysis that says they say one thing and report another and a recent report seems to end up dissing PT and saying more roads – TINA. WTF and other acronyms.

      One of the things was the provision of car parking buildings for park and ride which are doubtful on a cost efficiency basis and how the parking is to be paid, and how much etc. I didn’t see in my quick glance anything about contracting taxis to act as small feeder transport for door to PT hubs, which if organised well could offer efficient transport in people carrier sized vehicles, small shuttle type – electric? That would be additional cost but a great time-saver worth paying for. Also there could be a place for community groups to act as contacts for people carrying regular passengers on a route for koha.

      Things that good-hearted practical community groups could do. They might need funding and not be dependent on irresponsible, uncaring government so we who do care could dip our hands in our pockets to maintain the necessities for a wellbeing society. If the local council set up a citizens community aid charity then the donations could be tax deductible so that we didn’t pay twice for them because government refused to provide.

  7. miravox 7

    So citizens have to give away privacy because it may hinder security and the fight against terrorism, but foreigners with trusts are entitled to secrecy even though the trust may hide criminal and terrorist funding which destabilise security?

    • save nz 7.1

      Yep MIravox, under neoliberalism those with wealth make the rules to suit themselves and then pretend to be looking into it when there is a big public scandal. However nothing will be done as in the anti corruption summit, run by Cameron who himself has be caught benefiting from an offshore tax haven. What a joke!

      This is what Oxfam has to say….

      “These havens are the deliberate choice of major governments, especially the United Kingdom and the United States, in partnership with major financial, accounting, and legal institutions that move the money. The abuses are not only shocking, but staring us directly in the face.”

      • John shears 7.1.1


      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2

        “These havens are the deliberate choice of major governments, especially the United Kingdom and the United States, in partnership with major financial, accounting, and legal institutions that move the money. The abuses are not only shocking, but staring us directly in the face.”


        And that is what we’ve seen from this government as they changed the laws and prevented a review of those laws.

    • Halfcrown 7.2

      EXCELLENT May I quote that? I would like to add it to my list of quotable qoutes.

  8. Peroxide Blonde 8

    Grumpy somewhat!

    Speaker The Rt Hon David Carter learns that he is NOT going to London as High Commissioner, unlike his predecessor Lockwood Smith.

    Speaker throws the Prime Minister out of the Parliament.

    Will the PM respond by threatening to withhold the knighthood?

    If this happened in a less developed country we would threaten to withhold aid.

    • Jenny Kirk 8.1

      What I observed at QuestionTime in Parliament yesterday, and the day before, Peroxide Blonde, was a “set up” between PM and Speaker. Day before Speaker gave a verbal warning to PM. Yesterday he kept talking while Speaker on his feet – now this HAS happened before with PM and Speaker (at other QuestionTimes), and this time Speaker quickly sent him out of the House. It was trivial. It was designed to be yet another distraction from the Panama papers, and also kept the PM from having to answer any more questions.
      A total set-up !!

      • Peroxide Blonde 8.1.1

        I understand your thinking Jenny Kirk.

        However I find to difficult to accept that even David Carter would demean the office of Speaker by taking part in a charade.

        Never underestimate the attraction of imperial pomp and ceremony to older Nats (and a few of our own too)!

  9. North 9


    Dear Tracy Watkins writing in Stuff. As usual, clapping John Key. No analysis, just story about the story.

    • TC 9.1

      That would require intellectual rigour. Watkins probably still waves the lockwood teatowel about dreaming about her idol shonky john

  10. maui 10

    Media makes it all about him, gives him the bad boy rep, and forgets about accountability. Predictable.


  11. save nz 11

    28% of US bees wiped out this winter, suggesting bigger environmental issues


    • Pasupial 11.1

      Not just in the winter either:

      Over the year, from April 2015 to March 2016, beekeepers lost 44% of their colonies – the highest annual loss on record. Until six years ago annual figures were not kept as it was assumed colony losses were only suffered during winter, but similar declines are now occurring year-round…

      “We are seeing greater cost pressures to pollinate crops. It costs around $200 a year to keep a colony alive and replace a queen. You’re lucky if you make $200 a year through the honey produced, so a lot of operators aren’t even breaking even. There are a lot who are really hurting.”

      Environmental groups have called for a range of common pesticides to be phased out to help bee populations recover. The Environmental Protection Agency is investigating the risk posed by neonicotinoids, the world’s most widely used class of insecticides, with initial results suggesting they may pose a risk to honeybees and the $15bn in agricultural value they provide through pollination.

      • gsays 11.1.1

        Hi pasipual and save nz, speaking to friend who has lots of colleagues in marine biology.
        He is of the opinion that the oceans are in a perilous state, far worse than the terrestrial situation.

        • Bill

          Any marine biologist I speak to tends to use the term “fucked”.

          • save nz

            The problem is with our corrupt MSM the message does not get out in the way it should. Instead (if at all) a small article about declining bees with large article above about a digger holding up traffic or the bachelor dumping his girlfriend.

            We really are at rock bottom MSM. I guess the corporations who own them don’t care and think they are too old, have enough money, so it does not matter if the natural environment is decimated.

            • Bill

              The problem’s much deeper than that.

              Many scientists don’t speak out or speak up. Some don’t care – they’re the worst of ‘geeks’ lost in the pursuit of knowledge. Others are just shit scared that their career’s will be jeopardised or that funding will disappear.

              And we’re locked into the same headlong rush, and for much the same reasons, as they are. The mortgage, the career, the understanding that to provide the best for our children we do this…which just happens, unfortunately, to be totaling the prospects for any kind of comfortable future.

    • Colonial Viper 11.2

      Monsanto says: roundup is safe, no problems here, please keep pouring on your wheat fields.

    • TC 11.3

      We see alot more wasps of various types which also threatens bees

  12. adam 12

    The belief that the TPP would be stopped or changed by the parliamentary process, the going through submissions and select committees has failed. Not one thing has changed.

    The TPP will be rammed through today, in all probability.

    We are now one step closer to a new form of totalitarianism at the hands of the corporations.

    Democracy takes hard work – you need to fight for it, like liberty and freedom. The idea that this form of democracy we have slipped into, has anything close to bearing fruit of our liberation and freedom died with a whimper, not a roar – this day.

    In 35 years we have gone from a reasonably robust democracy with massive participation, to a shallow democracy with over a third of the population not voting. Local government is also weak to the point of irrelevance.

    And the worst part, the absolute worst part. Is this transformation is so bloody beige. It’s just a non bloody event, and almost everyone is just letting this slip in.

    Well you can’t complain no one warned you, not now.

    • save nz 12.1

      +1 Adam but a lot of people are concerned about the complexity and thoroughness of the way National are destroying our country and transferring it’s wealth and identity.

      • adam 12.1.1

        At this point, unless the MPs who are suppose to be on left do something today. Then I believe all of the members of parliament are complicit, in the hollowing out of the thread of democracy we have left.

        • Tautoko Mangō Mata

          I disagree that all MPs are complicit. The opposition MPs on the select committee hearing submissions fought as hard as they could as shown in their minority reports. National have stymied any debate on the TPP, John Key has pulled a stunt diversion to distract the media who are also currently distracted by their precarious job situations.
          Time for Labour, Greens and NZ First to collectively say that should they become the Government, they will have a referendum on whether to pull out of the TPP.

          • adam

            Piffle at this point Tautoko Mangō Mata.

            Sorry, but this this systemic failure. And your blind trust in the system, is just more of the beige I was talking about.

            Once this is pushed through, there is no pulling out.

          • Colonial Viper

            Labour was complicit.

            They had the perfect opportunity over the last 12 months to differentiate themselves from National and lead the groundswell of popular discontent against the TPP, and to consequently bring an amazing amount of pressure to bear on the Select Committee.

            But of course, Little, and Labour, and fundamentally pro free trade, and they have said it several times now.

            So instead they sat on the TPP fence trying to keep the globalist western establishment on side, and ended up writing a few strong words in minority reports that hardly any voters will notice.

            Time for Labour, Greens and NZ First to collectively say that should they become the Government, they will have a referendum on whether to pull out of the TPP.

            Little has already committed to staying in the TPP and renegotiating what he can (which will be nothing).

            I don’t see how this leaves room for Labour to now suggest a referendum.

            • Tautoko Mangō Mata

              @CV- You are probably right. Labour have been a total disappointment over this issue.

              • save nz

                You are all right, but now pressure from voters need to be on the opposition to do something. Walk out, do a demonstration, whatever they need to do something today to show the public that they are against TPP and it a very important issue.

                • Sacha

                  Too late. The time to oppose was *before* the last election. We all saw what Labour decided to do instead. Thanks a bunch.

  13. save nz 13

    “3 oligarchs-turned-governors who are laying ruin to their states
    Rick Scott, Matt Bevin and Bruce Rauner have gutted social services for the poor. The results speak for themselves”


    An interesting segment…

    “The New Normal

    Bevin, Scott and Rauner do not represent a lunatic fringe in the 2016 GOP; they are the party’s new normal. They have no problem with growing inequality in their states or the fact that economically, the U.S. is looking more and more like a classic banana republic where a wealthy minority gets richer and richer while big chunks of the population barely survive.

    If Bevin, Scott and Rauner had any real understanding of economics, they would realize that banana republics and oligarchies are ultimately unsustainable because when working class people are broke, they cannot afford to buy products and help keep companies afloat. Henry Ford realized that, and even multi-billionaire Warren Buffett has acknowledged that growing inequality is problematic for capitalism and has at least been endorsing centrist Democrats like Obama and Hillary Clinton.”

    Has John Key, wannabe and possible oligarch found the neoliberal holy grail, a way to sustain a banana republic in NZ by using wealth immigration to keep adding new people to buy products to keep the economy going and hide the fact that more and more locals can’t afford the basics?

    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      Has John Key, wannabe and possible oligarch found the neoliberal holy grail, a way to sustain a banana republic in NZ by using wealth immigration to keep adding new people to buy products to keep the economy going and hide the fact that more and more locals can’t afford the basics?

      Nope, he hasn’t. Paraphrasing Adam Smith: You need 500 poor people to maintain one rich person.

      So all that bringing rich people in does is put more pressure on the poor. Add in the fact that National will continue to cut wages for the workers and government spending so as to cut taxes on the rich and what he’s done is bring the collapse of New Zealand’s society closer.

      Capitalism has never worked and has always resulted in the ruin of the society that adopted it.

      • Puckish Rogue 14.1.1

        Agreed, John Key has done a very good job of misdirection and it worked.

        • Enough is Enough

          He is a crook, but quite simply a brilliant politician.

          • Colonial Viper

            And the left continue to underestimate him over and over again.

            • Bob

              “If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected .”
              ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

              Either the left are ‘pretending’ to be weak, or they just have no coherent plan against him at all and will continue to fail.

            • adam

              NO Colonial Viper, no one under estimates him. They just use the wrong tactics to beat him. It’s ignore him. Out and out, ignore him – he loves and thrives on the attention. He does very well with it, both positive and negative.

              So ignore him, go out to the communities who do not vote and get them politicised. Let people make up their own minds. The thing that beats national every-time, is an engaged body politic, not a few activist.

              • Colonial Viper

                You may be correct, but if I went back the last 12 months and looked up on The Standard all the authored posts which were headlined:

                1) Key lied again!
                2) Key caught out again!
                3) Key fumbles again!
                4) Key complicit again!
                5) Planet Key again!
                6) Key angry mad again!
                7) Key shady-as again!
                8) Key a pervert again!
                9) Key the dropkick again!
                10) Key $$$ bankster again!

                I’d come up with a hundred posts. And the left wing brains on The Standard are up there with the best that exist in NZ.

        • Draco T Bastard

          An yes, the RWNJ comes in to congratulate FJK on his lying and corruption.

          • adam

            We at least he is being honest, with himself, and that Draco T Bastard is far better than the way Puckish use to communicate.

    • Pasupial 14.2


      If you truly believe; “the Panama Papers scandal has been a bust” then why do you feel the need to spin the topic so incessantly?

      It’s not all about Key (though protecting their idol is always uppermost in the mind of worshipers), it’s about; NZ being used as a cog in an international tax haven machine. You may not have a problem with that, but it’s not going to go away just because even you are getting bored with your line of denial.

      • Puckish Rogue 14.2.1

        If you truly believe; “the Panama Papers scandal has been a bust” then why do you feel the need to spin the topic so incessantly?

        – Probably because I like it when what I predict actually comes true (mind you this was a pretty easy one to predict)

        It’s not all about Key (though protecting their idol is always uppermost in the mind of worshipers), it’s about; NZ being used as a cog in an international tax haven machine. You may not have a problem with that, but it’s not going to go away just because even you are getting bored with your line of denial.

        – Ok I accept that for you this viewpoint is correct but for others on here, especially as alluded to by Chris Trotter, its all about taking down John Key

        – Hopefully John Shewan can make some recommendations to make NZs laws around foreign trusts more robust then

        • b waghorn

          “”– Hopefully John Shewan can make some recommendations to make NZs laws around foreign trusts more robust then””

          Ha ha comedy gold

          • Puckish Rogue

            Well that’s one point of view, another could be to wait to see what he comes up with as well

            • b waghorn

              Can you point me to any review that has been carried out by one of keys pets that has made a significant change to the problem at hand.

              Just so I can live in hope you understand.

  14. Anno1701 15

    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull was once a director of an offshore company set up by Mossack Fonseca, data from the Panama Papers shows


    • Puckish Rogue 15.1

      See now that’s the kind of hit the left need against John Key, it may well be innocent, its legal yet it doesn’t look good at all

    • save nz 15.2

      The right wing politicians are all in the trough!

    • Expat 15.3

      It will be interesting to see if the media or opposition pick this up, there is an election campaign going on that has 55 days to run, and at the moment the race is 50/50.

      Turnbull is an absolute disappointment, at the beginning of the election he said he wanted to fight it on IDEAS, but every time he opens his mouth, he’s attacking Labour, stating their policies because he doesn’t have any of his own, (sound familiar) he hasn’t produced a single coherent policy since trashing Abbott, they call his recent budget, a “fudget”, an apt name for the redistribution of wealth to the rich, he’s still arguing that “trickle down” theory actually works, he’s underestimated the intelligence of the electorate, and it’s only the very devoted who support him.

      • framu 15.3.1

        ” (sound familiar)”

        some of it is word for word – and not just nz/aus either

        • Sacha

          Crosby Textor are good at being paid several times for the same ‘advice’ in Aus, UK, NZ. Hence cusp, boatpeople, etc.

  15. Puckish Rogue 16


    This is interesting, does Andrew Little apologize because Labours finances are in the toilet and defending this would be a massive drain (I’m assuming it would be a massive drain as lawyers aren’t cheap) but risk looking like a chump or does he stand his ground and gain respect for standing up for what he believes in (from his and his supporters point of view)

    • save nz 16.1

      Andrew Little should not apologise – take it to court. I think being in the public eye against Scenic Hotels aid donation to the tax haven Nuie might be just what the doctor ordered to wake up Kiwis to the everyday corruption the Natz get up to!

      I would also give to the Labour legal campaign just as I gave to the campaign when Nicky Hager won against the police.

      • Puckish Rogue 16.1.1

        That is not a bad idea and it would be a very good outcome if successful, the problem is though if its shown in the courts that what Andrew Little said isn’t true then it could be really damaging to himself and Labour and worse would give more support to John Key

        Be interesting to be a fly on the wall at that meeting

        • Gangnam Style

          Good, sunlight is the best disinfectant & all that, been waiting for this.

          • Puckish Rogue

            I agree, its a win-win situation for all, if theres found to be bribery (or some similar term) then punishment can be meted out and if Andrew Little is found to be wrong well he’ll just have to take what he gets as well

            Probably a distraction Labour don’t need at the moment though

            • framu

              the thing is – did little actually defame scenic hotels and can it be proven that he was claiming a fact and not an opinion?

              from my reading of it little can easily argue that he was criticising those that oversaw the decision and not the recipient – and that the “stinks to high heaven” was his honest opinion

              just how many of these defamation cases even make it to court? – they all seem to hinge on the complainant having to prove things which are very hard to prove

              to me this has more of a legal threat aspect to it made with full knowledge that the court time and cost, not the validity of the claim, is what will bring about a resolution

              but yeah , the question is “cost and distraction vs outcome” for labour

              • Puckish Rogue

                Short answer is basically yes to all. I would like to see this go to court to see who actually is right (or wrong) in this instance however it probably wouldn’t be very good (overall) for Labour if it did go to court.

                So because of the cost involved and considering theres a by-election coming up plus a general election in the not too distant future I’m going to predict a claytons apology from Little sometime on Friday, but I’ve known to be wrong in the past before and I may well be wrong here

      • Chuck 16.1.2

        I really do hope you are correct save nz, and Little decides to defend this little court case. It would be worth its weight in gold seeing Jacindas dad on the stand giving evidence against Andy Little.

        But I doubt he will…Labour is broke, Little will be receiving advice to apologize as he is not even remotely close to a strong position on this.

        Demanding an AG inquiry…fine no issue. But saying it “stinks to high heaven” maybe that’s why his press secretary “resigned”??

  16. Hami Shearlie 17

    Have Clare Trevett and Audrey Young been sucked up into an alien spaceship? Where on earth are they – don’t they know that there are screeds and screeds of documents to pore over from Panama?

  17. Puckish Rogue 18

    Fair enough, I think its important to read it but its not pleasant reading

  18. Penny Bright 19


    “The Super City has got a big tick from a report card issued today by the Committee for Auckland lobby group.”

    A number of whose member companies contract to Auckland Council (and some CCOs.)


    How is it not a MAJOR ‘conflict of interest’ that Auckland Council and some CCOs are actually MEMBERS of the Committee for Auckland lobby group?


    How come in New Zealand (perceived to be the 4th ‘least corrupt country in the world’, according to, in my view, the effectively meaningless Transparency International 2015 ‘Corruption Perception Index’ ) there are no legislative controls on ‘lobbying’?

    New Zealand has no ‘Register of Lobbyists’, no ‘Code of Conduct’ for lobbyists, and even more obscene, in my opinion, ‘public’ bodies like Auckland Council and some Auckland Council CCOs are actually MEMBERS of private sector lobby groups like the Committee for Auckland (and the NZ Property Council)?

    Anyone else deeply concerned about this?

    What is Transparency International NZ doing about it?

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

  19. Repateet 20

    Judith Collins can go to all the corruption conferences she likes but will that sort out actual corruption in New Zealand?

    Find out more:
    Friends, senior students, teachers, parents, and the community of Rangiora:

    Local MP Matt Doocey says on his site “It’s a privilege to be the MP for Waimakariri, representing our community in Parliament.”

    He clearly is not representing his community in Parliament.

    • Sacha 20.1

      “Judith Collins can go to all the corruption conferences she likes but will that sort out actual corruption in New Zealand?”

      While she’s away, perhaps.

    • Draco T Bastard 20.2

      Judith Collins can go to all the corruption conferences she likes but will that sort out actual corruption in New Zealand?

      It’s not supposed to, it’s supposed to look like National are doing something about the growing corruption in New Zealand.
      But considering that they’re the source of the growing corruption in New Zealand just how effective do you think that they want it to be?

      • Draco T Bastard 20.2.1

        Dammit, no edit on phone.

      • North 20.2.2

        Yeah Judith Collins……poacher turned gamekeeper. Without the slightest sense of irony. Wonder who’ll be driving the motor company car she got given, while she’s away. Hubby I guess, toting the government paid for fuel card. Talk about sucking gravy. Entitled Baggage !

  20. McFlock 21

    Ah, Stuff website. 8 stories visible on the frontpage without scrolling down at my default resolution, 3 of those “reporting” about some aspect of “The Bachelor” reality TV show.

    God bless those warriors of the fourth estate…

    • b waghorn 21.1

      When “story ” on tv3 started last night and the lead was the bachelor story, the little dark voice in me jumped up and said ” bring on rampant cc to reboot the system as humans have reached peak stupid.

  21. Puckish Rogue 22


    – Not a good look if you want people to be swayed to your ideas by forcing the elderly to be carried

  22. North 23

    Oh……America ???


    Yes he’s a “free American” as he says. He’s not a dead American like Trayvon. And since he’s not dead he can put his ‘possessions’ on E-Bay. Like a rapist swingin’ his ugly dick down Times Square. Of course. Of course also…….I’m not gonna weep when the death threats he’s been getting……well you know.

  23. North 24


    This is the tip of the iceberg in terms of perjury by cops. They’re encouraged in it because they know that most judges are dispositionally inclined to believe whatever shit they say. Simply because they’re cops. Some judges actually believe it’s an unshakeable rule of law. “Cops don’t lie. How unreasonable of you, counsel, to postulate otherwise !”

    They (district court judges) are signed up on six grand a week which of course encourages them to believe that all is more or less well in the system which pays them six grand a week.

    Ratshit that anybody else probably woulda been ordered to do actual time on the score that “Your offending strikes at the very core of justice !” That line usually accompanied by a fat sneer from the signed up one towards the scummy poor person in the dock.

    I live in a locality where of about 48 cops there are two whom in my personal experience I know to be unmitigated liars. Worse, one in particular lies with a smile. As to the other an honourable police prosecutor has virtually acknowledged that fact to me personally.

    The damage I have seen those two do would not have been done except with the complicity of the faux omnipresence of the signed up on three hundy a year one.

  24. Salsy 25

    So Goff supported the TPPA – Its a huge political move. Personally think he should have stood with his party, and denounced it. Let Auckland decide.

    “Fellow Labour MP David Shearer had told the Herald he personally supported the TPP, but later said he would be voting along party lines”



  25. Penny Bright 26

    TPPA Bill passes it’s first reading – supported by Labour MP and 2016 ‘Independent’ Auckland Mayoral candidate Phil Goff.


    “…The bill passed 62 votes to 59.

    National, Act, United Future and Labour’s Phil Goff voted in favour while the rest of the Labour Party, the Greens, New Zealand First and the Maori Party opposed the bill.”

    Penny Bright

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate – who is and has actively opposed the signing and ratification of the TPPA.

  26. Penny Bright 27

    I predict that Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turbull’s previous tax haven connections revealed through the Panama Papers will cost him the upcoming Australian election.

    At the end of the day – I predict NZ Prime Minister John Key will not be feeling quite so comfortable about the Panama Papers and their latest revelations?


    “Malcolm Turnbull’s role in offshore company revealed in Panama Papers
    The Australian PM was director of a British Virgin Islands company that had dealings with Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca in the early 90s

    • Read the documents listing Malcolm Turnbull’s directorship here

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

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