Open mike 13/06/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 13th, 2015 - 78 comments
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78 comments on “Open mike 13/06/2015”

  1. Saarbo 1

    Powerful stuff from Fran O Sullivan in todays NZH, excellent.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11464413

    • dv 1.1

      It seems to me that Key needs to get some GUTS about the safety legislation.

    • ianmac 1.2

      All the more powerful since Fran is often a fan of Key.

    • Anne 1.3

      Daily Review has not appeared tonight so will leave this here:

      Reportedly said by Matthew Hooton in his latest NBR article this is an extract:

      To discuss their idea, Mr Leggett and Ms Pagani met Mr Little, his deputy Annette King and Labour’s political director Neale Jones. Shortly after, word was put out that Ms Pagani was “stroppy.” According to the leader’s office, Ms King had taken particular offence to Ms Pagani while the leader himself said relatively little.

      Having observed how Ms Clark had responded to her own attempt to roll her in 1996, Ms King acted quickly to arrange a confrontation at Tuesday’s caucus meeting. Ms King, Mr Robertson, Te Atatu MP Phil Twyford and chief whip Chris Hipkins made clear to MPs suspected of being involved with Progress that they should have nothing further to do with it.

      The head of the Rainbow faction, Louisa Wall, supported by Wigram MP Megan Woods, even urged that those involved be expelled from the party altogether. As he had largely done in the original meeting, Mr Little kept his own counsel. Mr Shearer and Mr Parker also knew to stay above the fray. Progress now seems to be going nowhere.

      Progress is the think tank purportedly being set up by Pagani, Leggott, Quinn and others.

      If this excerpt is more or less correct, then it looks like “Progress” is dead in the water at least as far as the Labour Party is concerned. It also means someone has leaked caucus information – YET AGAIN.

      • Colonial Rawshark 1.3.1

        Fuck me, this appears to confirm that caucus is leaking to Hooton like a sieve again

        • Anne 1.3.1.1

          Pure speculation, but my hunch is the info. came either direct from Josie Pagani or through her spouse John Pagani, who is sure to still have links with one or two Labour MPs. If the meetings did go the way it is claimed then it would be a case of revenge because they didn’t get the response they wanted.

          In other words, the whole think tank idea is really all about Pagani, Quinn, Leggott and co. and not the Labour Party!

  2. Tautoko Mangō Mata 2

    Tppa battle is going on in USA.
    “The US House of Representatives on Friday (Saturday NZT) delivered a blow, though perhaps a temporary one, to President Barack Obama’s signature goal of strengthening ties with Asia when it defeated one measure, but approved another important to finishing a Pacific Rim trade pact.”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/69360200/president-obama-suffers-setback-on-tpp-legislation

    Also read “Fast Track Derailed? House Deals Blow to Corporate-Friendly Trade Agenda”
    http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/06/12/fast-track-derailed-house-deals-blow-corporate-friendly-trade-agenda
    and
    “Democrats Rebel To Block Obama’s Trade Deals”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/12/obama-trade-deal_n_7569874.htm

    “Defeat for Obama on trade as Democrats vote against him
    Setback for future trade agreements as strange coalition of Democrats and conservative Republicans come together to defeat president”
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/12/obama-trade-deals-congress-trans-pacific-partnership

    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 2.1

      The following explains the way that the US House of Reps ties 2 bills in together in order to pass unpalatable legislation.

      ” What Obama was proposing was a trick, one used repeatedly to advance distasteful policies, by getting each side to vote only on the parts they like. And House progressives responded by saying they wouldn’t play that game anymore. If they can withstand the pressure, not only will trade be derailed, but the era of the split-vote gambit, where opponents help the victors, will be over.

      “Progressive Democrats took their stand on trade adjustment assistance (TAA), a separate bill to “fast track” trade authority for the President, which the Senate linked together, so that they had to pass concurrently. TAA offers modest job training, income support and health insurance assistance to workers who lose their jobs from trade deals. It’s not very effective, but it sounds good; Democrats who oppose trade deals can say that they at least got some help for workers.
      TAA and fast track have passed together ever since the Trade Act of 1974. This is a Washington game where Democrats get to vote for TAA so Republicans don’t have to. Republicans don’t favor TAA because they see it as welfare.

      That set up liberal Democrats as the deciding factor on whether Obama would get his fast-track trade authority. The President went to Capitol Hill to tell Democrats to “play it straight” on the vote. But voting for TAA as a sweetener for a policy most Democrats don’t support is the opposite of playing it straight. It’s a stupid game, and progressives finally decided not to play.
      ……But today, TAA fell 126-302, with only 39 Democrats supporting.”

      http://www.salon.com/2015/06/12/the_democrats_tpp_rebellion_just_drew_blood_everything_you_need_to_know_about_todays_shocking_vote/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

      • joe90 2.1.1

        A trade deal so good they need to gut health spending to finance a special programme to compensate the people who lose their jobs because of it.
        /

        Medicare means many things to many people. To seniors, it’s a program providing good, low-cost healthcare at a stage in life when it’s most needed.

        To Congress, it’s beginning to look more like a piggy bank to be raided.

        That’s the only conclusion one can draw from a provision slipped into a measure to extend and increase the government’s Trade Adjustment Assistance program, which provides assistance to workers who lose their jobs because of trade deals. The measure, introduced by Rep. David Reichert (R-Wash.), proposes covering some of the $2.7-billion cost of the extension by slicing $700 million out of doctor and hospital reimbursements for Medicare.

        http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-congress-plots-to-raid-medicare-20150518-column.html#page=1

      • Tracey 2.1.2

        Interestingly in the USA they recognise TPP opening up trade will result in job losses

    • DH 2.2

      I have to wonder at the motives, or at least the negotiating skills, of the NZ parties involved in this.

      The outstanding feature of the TPP negotiations is that the USA approached us, by us I mean all the parties involved in the initial stages. They wanted in when they weren’t invited, meaning we had something the US wanted.

      Anyone who knows about negotiating will know that put the US in a weak position and the rest of us in a strong position. We could tell the US to naff off, clearly the fact the US weren’t invited to begin with tells us we don’t need them to create a strong trans pacific partnership.

      Everything about this deal is saying that the US want in more than we need or want them, so why are our representatives caving in and pandering to them?

      • Colonial Rawshark 2.2.1

        We’re a vassal state. Consider what we did for them re: illegal Dotcom raid. Only in very rare instances can we tell them to “F off.” Plus Groser has probably been looking at a nice position on an executive board overseas somewhere. Probably the US.

        • Tautoko Mangō Mata 2.2.1.1

          This was part of Nancy Pelosi’s speech prior to the vote on the TAA.

          “I was hopeful from the start of this discussion that we could find a path to yes,” she said, adding, “Each week, each of us goes home to our district and in the case of many of us, we put our hand on a very hot stove. We hear the concern of so many families that have financial instability and uncertainty.” Ms. Pelosi made it clear she would not support the legislation, putting in the final twist of the knife.”
          http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/13/us/politics/democrats-revolt-on-trade-bill-obama.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

          “we put our hand on a very hot stove”…

          This is our problem. We need to call our MPs to account. Let’s stop passively accepting crappy government decisions and really turn up the heat on the stove for our local MPs.

          • Colonial Rawshark 2.2.1.1.1

            Correct. This is the philosophy of the Andersons Bay Peninsula Branch of the Labour Party (Dunedin South).

            List MPs must also be held to account.

            These people work for us, and they are paid damn well to do so.

  3. Macro 3

    On a “lighter” note – from across the ditch – the first dog comments on windfarm syndrome
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/nov/19/first-dog-on-the-moon-windfarm-inquiry-sickness
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/12/dr-onthemoons-self-diagnosis-windfarm-syndrome-check-list?CMP=ema_1732
    But no worries Tony has cut the windfarm developments – much better to use clean coal.
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jun/11/tony-abbotts-boast-of-wind-farm-cuts-contradicts-earlier-stand-on-renewables

    How the hell are we ever going to get governments to work together to reduce GHG with muppets like him about!

    • Colonial Rawshark 3.1

      the answer is Macro, we’re not, unfortunately.

      • dukeofurl 3.1.1

        Their coal is like dairying is to us. Or more correctly , their mining lobby is even stronger than our dairy lobby.

    • weka 3.2

      Making fun of people’s health concerns is not helpful and is politically bankrupt. Let’s keep in mind that in NZ at least wind farms are often big business, with often little respect for local communities and their needs. People get ridiculed for opposing them in ways that people who say oppose new dams don’t. Why is that exactly?

      NZ needs to learn how to live within it’s limits. I support the shift to renewables obviously, but I’m hard pressed to support something like a large scale windfarm on the Lammermoors so that Aucklanders can wear t-shirts in winter, or people can have heated towel rails, or the dairy export industry can keep strip mining the NZ landscape, or we can convert the NZ car fleet to electric and not change our driving habits. There’s only so much land, and currently we are using the same daft thinking that brought us AGW ie that demand will increase supply indefinitely.

      • marty mars 3.2.1

        +1

        Interesting thought about limits – can limits change and therefore living within those limits change. Are limits a construction rather than an absolute.

      • Colonial Rawshark 3.2.2

        Build that renewable power now; for the moment people will use the electricity for frivalous BS, but in 20 years when we are in the middle of the crunch, wiser heads will prevail over how that power should be allocated – as long as we have that generation available to allocate.

  4. vto 4

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/69340634/anger-at-delay-telling-public-about-christchurch-legionnaires-outbreak

    This guy still believes he made the right decision even though the fact four people contracting the deadly airborne disease proves otherwise.

    Wrong
    Scary
    Normal in Christchurch.
    Trust authorities at your risk.

    • dukeofurl 4.1

      Does seem to become legionnaires capital of NZ.

      But then again its only dead or very sick people, so National gets all the bureaucrats to cover up and obfuscate or their jobs are in danger.

  5. Draco T Bastard 5

    3D Printed Steel Pedestrian Bridge Will Soon Span an Amsterdam Canal

    The ambitious project centers on startup MX3D’s technology, which uses 6-axis robotic machines to create structures from steel literally in mid-air. Plans for building the bridge involve using two (or more) of these machines to effectively begin construction on either bank of the canal and build toward one another, meeting in the middle.

    As I’ve said before, 3D Manufacturing is the next evolution in production. I consider that it can, and will, replace many manufacturing jobs and allow for even small communities to produce everything that they require.

    Our government should be pushing R&D in this so that NZ doesn’t get left behind again.

    • dukeofurl 5.1

      Must be a very difficult process to get certification for complete bridge. But seems a good place to start.
      The building in place is a major innovation which uses some concepts that have been around for ages, ie Sydney harbour Bridge arch used cranes on each span, to build it up from the pre-cut steel girders , until they met in the middle.

    • Colonial Rawshark 5.2

      They’ve been using 3D manufacturing in structural construction for hundreds of years. Back then they called it “brick laying.” 😛

  6. weka 6

    The other day a series of moderations on ts included removal of comments, in some cases whole comments. The removed comments were not defammatory or excessively offensive and IMO were not attacks on the authors, which I had thought are the usual reasons for removing comments.

    What I am writing right now isn’t a comment on the bans given or the reasons, or the kind of communication that went on, or the line between pointing out inaccuracies and challenging a moderator, but I am noting that when moderation happens on ts now whole comments are sometimes being removed. I think that is new. This changes things like conversation flow and comprehension of sub threads and IMO degrades the debate where it happens. As a result I’m at the point now where I’ll start making copies of some conversations so that at least it’s possible to follow what is going on.

    • Lanthanide 6.1

      I didn’t witness the moderation you’re talking about, but I’d have to say that yes, moderation of entire comments has typically been very rare in the past. Usually it’s reserved for out-and-out trolls.

    • r0b 6.2

      On the authors’ discussion post lprent has reminded us all of the moderation rules. I hope that this particular problem will not recur.

  7. Colonial Rawshark 7

    I am disappointed that Andrew Little has not been seen in South Dunedin since the floods. This is one of the reddest voting areas and we give Labour a lot of support.

    “Volunteers shocked by flood victims’ plight”

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/345740/volunteers-shocked-victims-plight

    Volunteers were left shocked, upset and shaken after visiting South Dunedin’s hardest-hit flood victims this week.
    They found people enduring sodden bedding, soaked carpets and houses still damp and smelly from week-old polluted floodwater.

    The densely populated area is one of New Zealand’s poorest, and volunteers found families and elderly people who had been struggling before the floods but were now in bad health and emotional danger.

    • dukeofurl 7.1

      You mean disaster tourism?

      • weka 7.1.1

        what’s a pretty dickish comment duke.

        • Kiwiri 7.1.1.1

          It is a matter of disaster responsibilities and public duties. The leader of the Labour Party ought to urgently go to South Dunedin, and he should be standing with, walking alongside and engaging with those who have been affected by the flooding.

      • Colonial Rawshark 7.1.2

        from that attitude it’s easy to see why Dunedin South, historically one of the staunchest and reddest strongholds of the Labour Party, gave the party vote to National in 2014 for the second election in a row. I’m currently picking it will be three times in a row.

        • weka 7.1.2.1

          Curran has been prominent in dealing with the flood and aftermath, so maybe not.

          • Colonial Rawshark 7.1.2.1.1

            We’ll have another chat about this end 2017

          • marty mars 7.1.2.1.2

            Yes she seemed very vocal and prominent which was good.

            • Pasupial 7.1.2.1.2.1

              I was kilometers away that night and the warnings were all to avoid driving into flooded areas. But I doubt that there were that many places open to sell potting mix in South Dunedin:

              After helping with sandbagging efforts with the St Kilda Surf Life Saving Club for about two hours on the day of the flooding, Ms Curran said she was told civil defence had left the situation in the hands of support services earlier in the night…

              Ms Curran said a team of people was ”fighting a losing battle” sandbagging in a bid to protect homes.

              People who asked the council for help were told to buy potting mix and do the sandbagging themselves, she said.

              ”They were told to self-evacuate and to make the judgements themselves.”…

              Bay View Rd resident Trina Lyon, who suffers from MS and uses a mobility scooter, echoed Ms Curran’s comments.

              She said she rang the council requesting sandbags on Wednesday afternoon and was told to contact the fire service.

              They directed her to civil defence, which advised her it did not provide sandbags but the council should.

              She had since learned the sandbags were available at the St Kilda Surf Life Saving Club.

              http://www.odt.co.nz/video/news/dunedin/345739/no-civil-defence-help

              • True – mum lived in atkinson st so I’ve spent a bit of time there among all of the council flats – most of the residents must have found it exceedingly frightening and as for potting mix – maybe switched on gardener or whatever they were/are called 🙂

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  The problem seemed to be that different organisations failed to work together to solve problems; instead they stuck doggedly to their ‘as usual’ activity silos.

                  Problem was, it wasn’t business as usual that night.

                  Overall a failure of planning and a failure of leadership.

            • Kiwiri 7.1.2.1.2.2

              Thoughts go out to South Dunedin. In addition to putting up with the MP for the past six years, they now have to cope with the one-in-a-hundred-year flood.

    • weka 7.2

      Yep. The middle of winter in South Dunedin. The ODT has been giving some good coverage. I agree that it would have been good for Little to have visited.

      It’s like a smaller version of Chch, the rest of NZ just moves on and few people are paying attention to what matters or the extremity of the lives of the people affected.

      People and communities are less resilient than they used to be and I wonder if many people just assume that everything is being coped with.

    • ” … we give Labour a lot of support.” LOL, not you personally, of course, CV.

      Here’s why it isn’t a good idea to wallow in a) floods, b) people’s misery. You get the piss taken out of you.

      http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/pictures-of-politicians-in-wellies-and-staring-at-floods#.jk4pY208J

      • Kiwiri 7.3.1

        Interesting pics of photo ops. So, it would be very bad for Andrew Little to be seen in photos of him in South Dunedin after waters have receded. I guess he must not be associated in any way with the plight of South Dunedin residents.

        • te reo putake 7.3.1.1

          The local MP, Clare Curran, is fronting the matter. I’m sure Andrew Little is entirely supportive of her efforts and indeed, of the people of Dunedin.

          The point I’m making is that if he had turned up, the headlines would be ‘Labour Leader wastes Taxpayer Money Flying to Dunedin to Do Bugger All’ or ‘Little Washed Up’ etc. It’s not like he has the power to change anything, anyway. The real question is why isn’t the actual Government doing anything to help.

      • weka 7.3.2

        Nobody has suggested that Little wallow in anything trp, that’s your misinterpretation.

        The suggestion is that Little demonstrates that he cares, directly, to people that are in acute trouble.

        • Kiwiri 7.3.2.1

          Look, weka, it is absolutely crucial that Andrew Little does not open himself up to having photos taken of him concerning the South Dunedin flood or he will be mocked and scorned by the government, question time in the House, plus Dirty Politics and all that. South Dunedin people are very resilient and fine and they can look after their own. Let’s not make any fuss about the flooding. It is really important to maintain Andrew Little’s image in the mainstream media and protect him from how Nats control bad perceptions of him in the public eye.

    • whateva next? 7.4

      Why not just ask him in an email, as opposed to public picking? Just ammunition for the Right wing Panza division.

  8. Penny Bright 8

    YAY!

    USA ‘fast track’ TPPA legislation is lost in the House of Representatives 302 – 126.

    Really looking forward to any further vote on TPPA ‘fast track’ meeting the same fate.

    “The will of the people is the basis of the authority of Government.”

    No public say – NO TPPA!

    Penny Bright

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz

  9. It seems the wealthy are getting behind Medical Cannabis in NSW, a 33million dollar research donation was announced yesterday.
    http://unitedincompassion.org.nz/2015/06/12/daniel-haslams-legacy-leads-to-medicinal-cannabis-windfall-2/

  10. Draco T Bastard 10

    The CDHB’s three-year battle for funding

    The 20 to 29-year age bracket had seen a 94 per cent surge in attendees – attributed to rebuild workers.

    In 2013/2014 alone, overseas patients cost the CDHB $10.5m. Canterbury’s allocation for overseas patients was $2.5m a year.

    So, that would be the capitalists bludging off of the government again and causing stress to the rest of NZ.

    • Ergo Robertina 10.1

      ”In 2013, the CDHB’s performance was given a glowing commendation in an independent review undertaken by UK health charity the King’s Fund.”

      Yeah, right.
      The ‘independent review’ was exposed by Otago Uni academics last year as having been commissioned, costing $186,000:
      http://www.otago.ac.nz/news/news/otago072380.html

  11. ianmac 11

    This man Steve can sum it all up so well!
    John Key by Steve Braunias

    It’s raining, but at the end of the day there’s not a lot the government can do about that, or about Clayton Park primary school in Manurewa which is riddled with toxic mould and makes staff and children sick, or about cold, damp state house which have been blamed for the deaths of two tenants, although I’ll certainly hold talks with the appropriate ministers, who I understand have been briefed by cabinet that the bad weather we’ve been having is due to the Labour Party.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11464360

  12. United in Compassion is seeking funds for our (Charitable) Trust we are setting up, please donate and share widely to support the cause of medical Cannabis

    https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/medicalcannabisadvocacy

  13. joe90 13

    heh

    .

    House Democrats derailed “fast-track” today, putting the Trans-Pacific Partnership, President’s Obama’s pet trade free-trade agreement, in jeopardy. You may have some questions about what that all means. Questions like:

    What’s TPP? And “fast-track,” what is that? Why is Barack Obama yelling at Democrats and calling that nice Elizabeth Warren a liar? What should I, a cool liberal internet person who doesn’t actually pay close attention to horrifically boring political news, think about this? What is the Correct and Smart Position?

    To which I am tempted to say: Fuck off, I’m not your mom and I’m not Vox dot fucking com. If you want to understand the goddamn news you have to actually read widely from a variety of sources, you can’t look at one fucking chart and pretend you know what you’re fucking talking about.

    But that would be unproductive. So let’s “explainer the news.”

    http://gawker.com/explainist-did-something-just-happen-with-fast-track-1710945284

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