Open mike 14/05/2020

73 comments on “Open mike 14/05/2020 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   14 May 2020 at 6:46 am

   Not really dead: "What is increasingly looking a hard-fought contest between National and ACT for the centre-right vote took another turn last night with ACT releasing a bold economic plan to stimulate recovery from the Covid-19 lockdown and border closures. National is under intense polling pressure with leaked polls continuing to suggest it is sitting below 30 per cent. ACT, in contrast, has been picking up support with the party likely to return with at least one additional MP after the election."
   https://www.politik.co.nz/2020/05/12/act-is-back-with-more-members-more-money-and-a-bold-new-plan/ | Politik

   "Seymour said what impressed him about the visits to the website was the way people were donating money, small amounts like $15. “That really strikes me because there’s no button to automatically donate that much. It’s not a round number. Maybe that’s all they can give. “But we raised $100,000 in the 100 days leading in to the crisis.”

   Center-right voters seem to be making a tactical shift to boost ACT. I wonder if the Nats put the word out?? Shedding voters in desperation is an odd move if they did.

   “All up, the ACT document is comprehensive, detailed and contains some radical ideas. It stands in stark contrast to a brief “Five Point Plan” promoted yesterday by National’s Finance spokesperson, Paul Goldsmith.”
   • Nic the NZer 1.1

     14 May 2020 at 6:35 pm

     Seems like somebody left off the zero's while explaining how to 'anonymise' a donation.
2. Molly 2

   14 May 2020 at 6:50 am

   Anyone else think the 50 limit on funerals is actually going to be harder to implement than the 10?

   Funerals are non-invite occasions, with people turning up when they read a notice with date, time and location. With a limit of 10, most will assume that the closest family would be attending and stay away. 50, and there will be differing judgement levels from different people going on, and a lot of confusion over whether someone makes it into the closest 50 or not.

   The best way would be to invite 50 family and friends to the funeral. Apart from the added task given to the already grieving, there may be some conflict and long-standing grievances arising from the resulting attendance list.

   If 50 is considered to be acceptable in terms of transmission risk, then perhaps an easier method to implement would be that direct family relatives, children, parents, siblings and invited close friends were all allowed to attend up to a maximum of 50. If transmission does occur, close relationships between attendees will allow faster tracking of the clusters.

   Funerals were always going to be the hardest group activity to design and implement. Hopefully it will not result in adverse police monitoring and behaviour when it doesn't go to plan.
   • observer 2.1

     14 May 2020 at 8:51 am

     It will be 100 in a couple of weeks.

     The number at a funeral is important. But the number of funerals is what matters most.
     • Molly 2.1.1

       14 May 2020 at 9:14 am

       In a couple of weeks, we will have more data on how we are managing in terms of suppressing the virus. I hope all of us will have the opportunity to say goodbye to anyone we lose at that time.

       It is how we manage this transition, in terms of clarity of message (which has been quite good to date) and the understanding of those messages from everyone in the general public.

       The Covid-19 site, sends you to the MoH recommendations for funeral services, which spells it out pretty well. Although, the increase to 50 has been made, there are restrictions that limit that 50 to groups of ten at a time. And contact tracing forms to be filled out in case of transmission.

       I guess the logistics of how the numbers of mourners are identified and managed will be implemented by the family/friends and the funeral homes. This will be more difficult with at home wakes or tangihanga.
3. Dennis Frank 3

   14 May 2020 at 7:01 am

   There's a stealth operation happening, courtesy of the UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO). https://www.thecanary.co/exclusive/2020/05/13/revealed-secretive-british-unit-planning-for-reconstruction-of-venezuela/

   "The FCO’s Venezuela Reconstruction Unit was set up in Autumn 2019 to coordinate a UK approach to international efforts to respond to the dire economic and humanitarian situation in Venezuela."

   "The existence of a secretive Venezuela Reconstruction Unit within the FCO, combined with the FCO’s private discussions with Guaidó’s UK representative, seems to demonstrate the extent to which the UK government is committed to the overthrow of the Venezuelan government. These documents also suggest that ‘regime change’ in Venezuela is following the typical procedure: the countries that contribute most during the destabilisation phase can expect to share the financial spoils in the ‘reconstruction’ phase."
4. Dennis Frank 4

   14 May 2020 at 7:56 am

   Also competing for the center-right vote: "He came back from his Northland lockdown firing on all cylinders. If you wanted confirmation that this is an election year, there it was.. the Great Tuatara was quick to re-assert himself on the political stage." https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/121496064/coronavirus-crisis-gives-winston-peters-the-chance-to-reassert-himself

   "The Covid-19 pandemic enabled him to present himself as statesmanlike in his role as Minister of Foreign Affairs and made him look good as the saviour of New Zealanders trapped overseas and desperate to come home. It also allowed him to promote himself as a Man of the People by disclosing that health officials had been rebuffed when they advised the Government to close our borders, which would have left those travellers stranded. It was inconceivable, Peters declared, “that we [would] ever turn our backs on our own”. He was thus able to parade as a patriot who stood firm against flint-hearted bureaucrats."

   "The virus scare also gave Peters an opportunity to unleash his inner Muldoonist by railing against globalisation and promoting economic protectionism — all of which might have sounded appealing to anyone not old enough to remember what New Zealand was like when everything from shoes to cars was shoddily made and overpriced."

   Overpriced, yes, but not shoddily made. I never noticed any evidence of any such tendency. "He was on equally safe ground advocating a trans-Tasman bubble, calling for greater state control over Air New Zealand and championing Taiwan’s bid, over China’s objections, for observer status at the World Health Organisation. All three moves played to populist sentiment".

   "Not only would Peters have been confident that the public would back his support for plucky little Taiwan, since China is seen as the nasty bully standing in the Naughty Corner, but it also had the advantage of differentiating his position from that of Ardern".

   Yeah, kiwis support the underdog and Ardern's foreign policy – while adept – lacks evidence of geopolitical nous as yet. So the Great Tuatara bestrides the Aotearoa political stage like a colossus, according to the du Fresne thesis. Cool imagery but seems a tad overstated – unless the next poll validates it.
   • Grafton Gully 4.1

     14 May 2020 at 6:35 pm

     My recollection too. Not shoddily made. There are many personal examples from gumboots to a Healing Shogun to a toaster still functioning after 30 years (I kid you not). The way people falsely run down the quality of NZ manufacturing really saddens me !
5. Pat 5

   14 May 2020 at 8:11 am

   Tourism industry hoping to maintain activity by replacing the 12 billion annual spend by international tourists with an increase in domestic tourism.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018746394/coronavirus-canterbury-campaign-aims-to-encourage-spending

   Thats an additional $2500 spent on holidaying for every man woman and child in NZ in the next 12 months….no matter how much you may wish to support local business are you in a position to supply that sort of outlay?
   • Nic the NZer 5.1

     14 May 2020 at 8:18 am

     Our econometricians are going to have to start measuring the velocity of tourists.
     • Ad 5.1.1

       14 May 2020 at 9:05 pm

       Slow and rich is a better yield, with more time to sell them higher prices services and experiences.
   • KJT 5.2

     14 May 2020 at 8:35 am

     I wish them luck, but in reality, I expect that normal domestic tourism will be down this year, and the next. Rather than increasing in total. Too many people worried about virus spread, or out of work.

     I expect we will be spending more than that. But we've been planning, and putting aside, because other things get in the way, like baby sitting grandkids 😊 a South Island trip for years
   • Tricledrown 5.3

     14 May 2020 at 9:38 am

     It would be interesting to see the figures on what NZers spend on overseas travel.
     • Pat 5.3.1

       14 May 2020 at 10:00 am

       only figures I can find quickly suggest the two balance each other out (roughly)

       "New Zealanders are forecast to keep up their multi billion-dollar spending spree on overseas travel next year after they have spent about $10 billion on trips during the past year" (2016)

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11773204

       This would appear to support the view previously expressed by some that there is little gained from international tourism except perhaps the opportunity it provides for kiwis to travel…food for thought
     • KJT 5.3.2

       14 May 2020 at 11:01 am

       Been trying for definitive figures to put on here. It has proven a much involved exercise. What I've found so far confirms my previous back of the envelope calcs. Net spend in tourism is negative as far as our balance of payments are concerned. Inbound tourism spend was roughly equivalent to outbound. But then there are all the imports, campervans, oil etc, to cater for tourism, and the money taken overseas by all those temporary visa holders and backpackers, working in the industry. Plus profits and interest going offshore.
   • Enough is Enough 5.4

     14 May 2020 at 11:51 am

     Unfortunately I don't think that cash that kiwis would have spent overseas will automatically be transferred to the domestic economy.

     We have been saving for and were planning a trip to the UK this year to see family. The trip won't be happening this year but we still plan to go at some point in the future.

     Unfortunately that cash will probably just sit in an account until we can go.
     • Pat 5.4.1

       14 May 2020 at 11:54 am

       "Unfortunately I don't think that cash that kiwis would have spent overseas will automatically be transferred to the domestic economy."

       Nor do I (though some will)….even if we ignore the fact that much of that discretionary cash will disappear or be applied to other uses (including saving)
   • Knarf 5.5

     14 May 2020 at 7:44 pm

     I have no sympathy for the hyper-tourism operators. It was never going to be a sustainable industry in the long term and the Key government screwed us all by pushing it. Let those companies change their business model or die. We need to redesign our economy with long term sustainability in mind. This also means getting over our dairy obsession, which has us kowtowing to China. Work on our primary produce so that New Zealand is self-sustainable – we should easily be able to feed ourselves without even importing food. Invest in infrastructure, it pays for itself many times over in the long term.
6. millsy 6

   14 May 2020 at 8:23 am

   Hopefully this budget won't be the last Labour budget till 2030…

   What exactly is in it, is going to be completely unexpected, no matter what it is.
7. observer 7

   14 May 2020 at 9:04 am

   Simon Bridges really needs to listen to himself speak. And sack whoever is advising him.

   Last night on the news (news, news) he did that thing politicians like (like, like) where you say the key word three times (times, times). For example, both Ardern and Bridges a few weeks ago said "test, test, test". It's a common rhetorical device.

   So Simon yesterday said plan (plan, plan), team (team, team), tax (tax, tax), and so on (on, on), and it sounded like he'd lost the plot (plot, plot).

   Free advice, Simon. Do it once and it's a sound bite on the TV news. Do it many times in one speech and it's a comedy routine. But they're not laughing with you.
   • Tricledrown 7.1

     14 May 2020 at 9:35 am

     Best to not criticize and let him carry on
   • gsays 7.2

     14 May 2020 at 11:13 am

     Similarly, I heard Bridges bemoaning the difference between church and bar goers. He used a mangled reference to the folk in the pub as a congregation.

     I know what he was referencing, but it ended sounding disrespectful to church folk.
     • Tricledrown 7.2.1

       14 May 2020 at 11:35 am

       Gsays His base supporters ie the Brethren and Destinies Brian Tamaki will be who bridges is Dog whistling
       • ianmac 7.2.1.1

         14 May 2020 at 12:20 pm

         And Tamaki vows that his church service will go ahead on Sunday regardless of any mortal law.
     • Peter 7.2.2

       14 May 2020 at 3:57 pm

       Maybe Bridges' mangling was some sort of Freudian thing when in his mind there's a thought of how the National faithful are going to receive what he says.

       He's imagining them out here in TVland shaking their heads saying, "Jesus, it was enough to drive me to drink."
   • Enough is Enough 7.3

     14 May 2020 at 11:53 am

     It was a response to Jacinda's speech earlier in the day where she said jobs jobs jobs.

     Lame but thats why
   • Cinny 7.4

     14 May 2020 at 1:08 pm

     When he does a speech he speaks so slowly, with big long pauses, like how one would speak to a pre-schooler. It drives me up the wall.

     His triple words yesterday was a wtf moment for sure.
8. Dennis Frank 8

   14 May 2020 at 9:13 am

   Today, the budget, then, an opportunity: “In the coming month the Government will launch a comprehensive engagement programme that will pose a simple proposition – look what our team of 5 million achieved together in beating the virus, now what can we do together to get our economy moving again, to look after our people, and rebuild in a way that make things better than they were before".

   Quoted by Chris Trotter, who frames the PM's call as a co-design opportunity. http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2020/05/go-hard-jacinda-more-importantly-go.html

   "And we need to do it fast – as fast as we possibly can – so that Labour can compile the “people’s manifesto” with maximum speed."

   An hallucination? Surely Labour will simply default to technocrats & business, as usual. Or will there actually be a genuine attempt to crowd-source wisdom? If Labour really is that radical, people will be amazed.
   • Incognito 8.1

     14 May 2020 at 10:29 am

     The Overton Window works both ways, it is not a mirror.
     • Dennis Frank 8.1.1

       14 May 2020 at 10:38 am

       "All social reform movements have to shift the Overton window to make progress." https://conceptually.org/concepts/overton-window

       Framing used as leverage can shift mass perception. Works better if one uses the right frame (to suit the situation). Are they up to that level of performance? We await the next thrilling episode…
       • McFlock 8.1.1.1

         14 May 2020 at 12:02 pm

         you're getting a real Pete George vibe going on there. All critic, no direction.
         • Dennis Frank 8.1.1.1.1

           14 May 2020 at 12:22 pm

           ? Sceptic, not critic. I'm willing to buy into Jacinda's aspiration on a similar basis to the trotter, but I need to see evidence that she's taking Labour with her into a scheme that will seem too new-age to Labour traditionalists…
           • weka 8.1.1.1.1.1

             14 May 2020 at 1:34 pm

             what is a Labour traditionalist these days?
             • Incognito …

               14 May 2020 at 1:36 pm

               Mr Trotter?
               • weka …

                 14 May 2020 at 7:24 pm

                 I'm not sure he is anymore. I suspect that Dennis is right, and it's the neolibs that are trad Labour now. Some of the old school Labourites fit into that well enough, but not Trotter.
                 • Ad …

                   14 May 2020 at 9:07 pm

                   Shows you know absolutely zero about Labour.
             • Dennis Frank …

               14 May 2020 at 1:42 pm

               Short answer: neoliberal. Someone who doesn't necessarily adhere to the 19th century ideology out of economic conviction, but who is pragmatic enough to go with what works, and enough of a slow learner to yet figure out that the end is nigh on that stance…
               • weka …

                 14 May 2020 at 7:33 pm

                 Looks like Lab traditionalist Roberston won this round. Better luck next time Ardern. I'm still open to the absence of NZF eventually being a release valve, but not holding my breath too much.
             • Grafton Gully …

               14 May 2020 at 6:47 pm

               Someone who knows about John A Lee and Bulldozer Bob.

               http://www.caterpillarexperience.co.nz/the-nz-caterpillar-experience/fun-facts-bout-cats_idl=51_idt=2714_id=15670_.html
   • Gabby 8.2

     14 May 2020 at 3:38 pm

     An halfwit?
     • Dennis Frank 8.2.1

       14 May 2020 at 4:22 pm

       Meanie. I'd rate him three-quarters on average. 🕘
   • Ad 8.3

     14 May 2020 at 9:09 pm

     Stop complaining about a commentator and start thinking for yourself.

     You're just being lazy.
9. Observer Tokoroa 9

   14 May 2020 at 10:55 am

   FPP is the only sensible structure for a Democracy.

   The Act nonsense, tying up endless parliamentary time, is a bird without much of a feather. So is Mrs Paula Bennett. As is our painful, slippy Tauranga lawyer.

   Followed by the expected mountains of crap from the elderly NZF personnel, lurching around in a self-made spiral. Abusing and Attacking face on face our once esteemed China Ambaassadors and friends.

   But also via Duncan blimmin Garner who took the role of weird assassin in the very face of his guest – the Chinese Ambassador.

   Gross Garner. Gross. Very Gross.

   How stupid is NZF going to get !

   Let us return to FPP – and safely clear away the rubbish.

   The wretched Journos in the wider Ranks, are in fact a coterie of national / Act pimps, replete with misleading attempts, forever writing to the rubbish bin, and forever attacking the competent Government of difficult YR 2020.

   FPP
   • gsays 9.1

     14 May 2020 at 11:16 am

     You will be chucking The Greens out with the bathwater going to FPP.
   • Cinny 9.2

     14 May 2020 at 1:10 pm

     NZer's voted overwhelmingly for MMP, and that's a good thing. Imagine living in a two party country like the USA… yeah nah.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 9.2.1

       14 May 2020 at 2:57 pm

       "NZer's voted overwhelmingly for MMP…" – if only that were true Cinny.

       “Had the referendum been held a week earlier I believe we would have lost”
       – Rod Donald

       The vote in favour of MMP was 53.9% – I'd like to think MMP enjoys more support now. The change to a fairer national proportional voting system was progressive, and overdue. Without doing the research, I'd also like to believe that globally the movement is all one way, i.e. from non-proportional to proportional representation systems only, with no back-sliding (e.g. to FPP) now, or in future.

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_reform_in_New_Zealand#1993_electoral_referendum

       https://teara.govt.nz/en/cartoon/36962/pro-mmp-poster
10. ScottGN 10

    14 May 2020 at 12:12 pm

    This whole Stuff/NZME shemozzle is getting more wacky by the day.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/121506766/govt-wont-bail-out-media-but-stuff-has-other-dance-partners
11. Tricledrown 11

    14 May 2020 at 12:24 pm

    Scott GN where is ACT on all this govt welfare for private enterprise.

    Let them fail the market's invisible hand will solve everything.
12. Bg 12

    14 May 2020 at 12:47 pm

    I thought she hated Facebook post Christchurch? Now you can't seem to get her off it.

    Reminds me of some other leader who uses social media to govern? What's his name???

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • Barfly 12.1

      14 May 2020 at 1:14 pm

      DNFTT
13. adam 13

    14 May 2020 at 1:54 pm

    How scummy can the right get – OH they can get really truly scummy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OHflW4UABg&feature=em-uploademail&ab_channel=SecularTalk
    • bill 13.1

      14 May 2020 at 5:18 pm

      How scummy can the right get

      Dunno what powers a State Governor has – but John Bel Edwards the Governor of Louisiana is a Democrat. Also Kamala Harris and the prisoners used to fight California's wild fires…?
      • adam 13.1.1

        14 May 2020 at 7:30 pm

        Oh come on , the democrats have a long long history of being right wing turds – just look at the Jim Crow laws.
      • adam 13.1.2

        14 May 2020 at 7:33 pm

        Oh speaking of Kamala Harris – big talk of her being joes girls.
        • Ad 13.1.2.1

          14 May 2020 at 9:13 pm

          Ocasio-Cortez is now on Biden's team.

          Eventually anyone who wants to achieve things sees sense.

          https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/12/politics/ocasio-cortez-biden-campaign-task-force-climate-change/index.html

          Especially the young idealists.
14. lilman 14

    14 May 2020 at 3:54 pm

    Hi just got word from work, was on the night shift last night, that we will be halving staff numbers from next week, I'm keeping my job but 17 are losing theirs, poor buggers, not looking forward to tonights shift.
    • I Feel Love 14.1

      14 May 2020 at 7:42 pm

      Crazy times, my work which is considered sunset industry (courier, mail) & in the last 10 years we've shed thousands of jobs (were you sympathetic about that?), is going through a boom, we need more drivers, we're utterly swamped. So it goes.
    • Ad 14.2

      14 May 2020 at 9:11 pm

      I hope by everything I hold holy that you get to keep your job.

      It's just brutal in business right now trying to survive this winter.
15. ScottGN 15

    14 May 2020 at 4:04 pm

    600,000 jobs lost in April in Australia.
16. ScottGN 16

    14 May 2020 at 4:07 pm

    At least 33 seniors dead after aged care workers abandon a resthome in Montreal.

    https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/records-reveal-chaos-in-the-days-before-staff-abandoned-the-herron/
    • McFlock 16.1

      14 May 2020 at 8:08 pm

      jesus.
    • swordfish 16.2

      15 May 2020 at 1:51 am

      We saw something similar in Spain a month or so back.
17. observer 17

    14 May 2020 at 4:30 pm

    Today we had zero new cases of the virus. 3rd day running.

    It's axiomatic that only the bad makes news ("if it bleeds it leads"). So this won't make big headlines, especially on Budget day. But on the first day of enjoying level 2, this is what we have achieved at levels 3 & 4.

    We'll never know what could have happened. And thank goodness for that.
18. Macro 18

    14 May 2020 at 6:59 pm

    Meanwhile Joe is showing that he is able to embody progressives in his platform:

    Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will co-chair a task force for Joe Biden's campaign on climate change, a move that adds progressive credentials to the former vice president's effort to unify the party ahead of the general election.

    Ocasio-Cortez will work with former Democratic presidential nominee and Secretary of State John Kerry, the panel's other co-chair, in a group that also includes Varshini Prakash, the executive director of the Sunrise Movement, the youth-led champions of the Green New Deal.

    The task forces, which also cover health care, the economy, criminal justice and education, include a lineup of progressive leaders and top Biden campaign aides and allies. Sanders revealed plans to form the advisory panels when he dropped out of the presidential primary last month, a sign of both campaigns' desire to form a united front against President Donald Trump and smooth over worries among Democrats that the party would splinter along ideological lines.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/12/politics/ocasio-cortez-biden-campaign-task-force-climate-change/index.html?
    • Ad 18.1

      14 May 2020 at 9:13 pm

      She can see it coming.
19. joe90 19

    14 May 2020 at 9:23 pm

    Thread.

    https://twitter.com/laurelchor/status/1260784481159442434
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1260784481159442434.html
20. observer 20

    14 May 2020 at 10:30 pm

    Another day, another crazy tweet by a National MP:

    Katie Hopkins? Can it get any worse?

    Their problems are much bigger than just Simon Bridges.
21. sumsuch 21

    14 May 2020 at 10:58 pm

    Right ho, just to alert you, my idiot born again Christian relatives ( you've seen what they've done in Oz, let alone America) are going big time about freedom v. Jacinda. Evangelical Christianity is what happens when you put what suits above what is. This is the right time for a war government re climate change. Reality is this. I really am amused by right-wingers talking about our 'longterm' future — investment and all — without reference to climate change. There is nothing but climate change now. To the Left and the Right.
22. sumsuch 22

    14 May 2020 at 11:22 pm

    There is just climate change now. Unless you lot disagree. No, I was joking. I entirely don't care for wrong opinions. All our shoulders to the wall. For our children and theirs. There is nothing else.
23. newsense 23

    15 May 2020 at 3:10 am

    Brigette Morten arguing on RNZ, yeh, but, like, they should have told business what was going to happen with the international travel industry and given them certainty about that, by solving corona worldwide like Simon would have.

    National has a plan apparently.
    These people are scary
24. Eco Maori 24

    15 May 2020 at 8:47 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    The is going to be 8000 more whare built for beneficiaries.????.

    Some people can't help being rude.

    Its hard to keep everyone happy.

    Ka kite Ano
25. Eco Maori 25

    15 May 2020 at 6:30 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    That's a good idea a people's vaccine.

    Yes all the fishing tangata will be on the Moana this weekend watch for the keiore to.

    Ka kite Ano
26. Eco Maori 26

    15 May 2020 at 6:53 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Condolences to Wiremu whanau for their loss.

    Its great to see smiles at Maori TV with the extra funding for Māori TV.

    Ka kite Ano.

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