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Open mike 14/09/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 14th, 2020 - 43 comments
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43 comments on “Open mike 14/09/2020 ”

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  1. Dennis Frank 1
    14 September 2020 at 6:58 am

    Someone investigated how the pandemic transformed Billy TK from blues musician into aspiring politician in a few short months, and provides the historical evidence documenting the transition: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/14-09-2020/how-billy-tk-plunged-down-the-covid-conspiracy-rabbit-hole/

    There's a binary switch in the mind, that shifts us between imaginal and real. Our imagination helps us survive by creating possible paths to the future, so we can optimise our personal worlds via our choices.

    This psychological process works when we do so via both/and logic: grounding ourselves in the real world but simultaneously investing energy in choices and actions and activities intended to catalyse the world we want.

    Thus the alchemy of progress. Problems emerge when co-creating the desired future world with others. Typical is the common one in which folks assume common ground instead of identifying it and agreeing to it. Tacit psychology then takes over and everyone proceeds on the basis of popular delusions.

    With sub-cultures, the belief system of the group forms a trap for young (or naive) players. Lotsa folks aren't good at doing reality checks. Critical thinking is now taught at universities, but for those not born with the innate ability to do it as part of normal life, it remains a minority trend.

    So the binary switch shifts many from conventional co-created reality (mandated by convention, recycled by msm) into the unconventional co-created reality of the sub-culture. True believers then operate as social justice warriors in an attempt to expose the falsity of the mainstreamers. God is on Billy TK's side, he believes. As the instrument of god's will, his mission is to save the poor deluded Nat/Lab voters.

    • gsays 1.1
      14 September 2020 at 8:09 am

      A mate and I were korero about Covid and 'conspiracies'.

      The observation he made was that in the past (20 yrs ago), the folk enquiring along conspiracy lines, had to work hard and seek out info, plus, they tended to be on the margins of society.

      Nowadays, dubious information is logarithmically fed to the mainstream, and they are losing their shit. They are not used to being on the outer.

      On conspiracy, it was a relatively quiet anniversary of 12/9.

      • Dennis Frank 1.1.1
        14 September 2020 at 8:54 am

        Nowadays, dubious information is logarithmically fed to the mainstream

        A key point, I suspect. Enabled by multiculturalism – which was a healthy antidote to mainstream monoculture when it started.

        Via postmodernism, diversity of views became paradigmatic. Tolerance of the mentally ill (under the guise of pretending they can be normalised) gives us Trump.

        So competing world-views can be rationalised as the sensible product of a caring, tolerant, all-inclusive civilisation. Freedom of choice, caveat emptor. In ancient Rome, tolerance of foreign religions became the norm for centuries until christianity imposed monoculture.

        In the nexus of faith, science, and politics, we mustn't lose sight of the fact that the reality of covid-19 is more evident to the specialists who study it than anyone else. Everyone else just has faith that the advice they provide to govt is sensible. We have faith in the msm when it tells us about those infected as a secondary consequence.

        We don't believe Bill Gates is using 5G with the UN mandate to make them sick. Our faith in govt decision-making derives from our faith in the scientists whose collective judgments drive public health policy. Seems logical, but it's faith-based, just like Billy's faith in god's will.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.1.1
          14 September 2020 at 10:19 am

          Equating public trust in the collective judgement of experienced expert scientists re the Covid-19 pandemic, with faith in Billy TK's intepretation of God's will, may be a stretch.

          I'm comfortable with the opinions of practitioners of faith-based movements in matters of faith – heck, the comparatively new religion/cult of Scientology was manufactured in short order by one creative mind – but when faith-based judgements, and consequent actions, are in conflict with science-based precautionary recommendations in matters of public health, then I'd hope that common sense would prevail, eventually.

          What might L. Ron Hubbard have made of Billy TK?

          Scientology’s multi-million dollar headquarters to open in NZ
          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11781005

          • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1
            14 September 2020 at 11:12 am

            Oh, headbanging stuff has arrived from the USA to give us the full smorgasbord of their psycho-logic.

            The song for today:
            Daddy started out in San Francisco,
            Tootin’ on his trumpet loud and mean.
            Suddenly a voice said, “Go forth, Daddy.
            Spread the picture on a wider screen.”
            And the voice said, “Daddy, there’s a million pigeons
            Ready to be hooked on new religions.
            Hit the road, Daddy. Leave your common-law wife.
            Spread the religion of the rhythm of life.”

            • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1.1
              14 September 2020 at 1:19 pm

              The lyrics in the song are adjusted for the religious. The original as you see is more saucy.

              Here is Sammy Davis giving his performance very lively.

              (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKSA049xkiU

              Will this be the setting for the left on October 17th?

            • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.1.1.1.2
              14 September 2020 at 2:18 pm

              "And the voice said, “Daddy, there’s a million pigeons
              Ready to be hooked on new religions.              "

              Thanks Grey for this well-observed lyric – worth bearing in mind as we approach election day.

              • greywarshark …
                14 September 2020 at 3:17 pm

                It's a great little rhyme that sticks in the mind, more and more after the Evangelicals mucked up the country and its election.

      • Treetop 1.1.2
        14 September 2020 at 12:57 pm

        I draw the line when it comes to misinformation which can harm others.

        When you have a choice to avoid not being harmed by the view of a conspiracy theorist they can do and think what they want. The problem with Covid – 19 is the community spread and a person would need to put their self on home detention to avoid it.

        So who is being restricted the most when it comes to misinformation about the transmission of Covid – 19?

    • Robert Guyton 1.2
      14 September 2020 at 9:14 am

      Dennis; I was trialling an idea with friends over the weekend; perhaps you'd like to masticate this too: if every human had the power to make real their every imaginary scenario, on a global scale and could repeat and adjust their creation endlessly and instantly, what would happen (take out irreversible chaos or non-existence etc.). Would there be a settling-out to a world that reflects the true human spirit? Would the choices and result reflect the deep subconscious of the human race? Would we reach a steady-state, or be plunged into a flickering super-8 movie where no frame connects with any other?

      One friend suggested, "Isn't what you propose what we have now"?

      • Dennis Frank 1.2.1
        14 September 2020 at 11:05 am

        I tend to agree with that friend. 😊

        But I like the discourse you co-created. What chaos theory told us about nature is that patterns of order emerge naturally (in an apparently chaotic system). So, since a social system operates similarly to an ecosystem, monocultural trends will persist awhile when produced as a result of system bifurcation, then evaporate or subside into a context of multiculturalism after that.

        Would we reach a steady-state, or be plunged into a flickering super-8 movie where no frame connects with any other?

        Both/and applies. Some will feel that the flicker is too much, and will gravitate toward the islands of stability. Those islands will grow in response. Firefly humans will dance amidst the flicker. Butterfly humans will flit between islands. You get the picture, eh? Biodiversity.

        Human fish will experience fluid cultural chaos as an ocean. Surfers will ride the surface of that. In astrology, ocean is represented by the Pisces archetype (mutable water, fixed water is pond or lake, cardinal water is rain, a spring or run-off originating stream or river). Kinetic energy and potential energy are the physics binary: discovering the emergence of subatomic particles into the physical universe a century ago caused theoretical physicists to postulate a realm of potential energy, with forms and fields also emergent from that. Fields are the tertiary category in physics that are real inasmuch as they are detectable, but we can't sense them so we use the imaginal to describe them. How forms arise in nature remains too hard!

    • woodart 1.3
      14 September 2020 at 10:14 am

      or the truth could be a lot simpler. someone with a reputation of non-payment of fellow musicians(goes down very badly in nz small music scene) who spent way too much time watching online rubbish during lockdown. needs to find another way of self promotion because he has burnt too many bridges in the music scene. as for god being on billys side ,think bob dylan (a LOT closer to god than billy ever will be)says it best in "with god on our side"

  2. Robert Guyton 2
    14 September 2020 at 7:11 am

    Today's "Jeff Bell" cartoon reveals Billy's bestie, Jamie-Lee Ross in all his glory.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/114832270/jeff-bell-cartoons

    • Shanreagh 2.1
      14 September 2020 at 6:51 pm

      Thanks for the identification RG. Can see it better now.

      I did not know who it was but had more or less settled on David Seymour except I thought there was something wrong with the hair. Some of the point DS comes out with also fit.

  3. Robert Guyton 3
    14 September 2020 at 9:06 am

    The under-attack Maori language video should be the topic of a post.

  4. Peter ChCh 4
    14 September 2020 at 10:15 am

    Is this the same Will Ryan from the nutter 'Right Minds' group? I think so. Dangerous people who, along with the likes of BFD (Whaleoil) model themselves on US extremist conspiracy theorists.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12364555

  5. weka 5
    14 September 2020 at 1:20 pm

    Anyone got a link to one of those graphs that shows Labour as a better financial/economic manager than National?

  6. RedBaronCV 6
    14 September 2020 at 1:41 pm

    Alert levels . What is the point about different regional levels when people can simply change levels by travelling?

    We have some of the people who went to the demo in Auckland also showing up at meetings in Southland if I have understood correctly ( no idea as to the actual time Line) But if we had trapped Auckland in Auckland then the rest of us could be at level 1.

    Also seen stuff with a story from Baker about purpose built facilities at Ohakea Read the idea here first?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122722400/high-risk-covid19-hotels-should-be-ditched-replaced-with-purposebuilt-facilities–experts

    • Janet 6.1
      14 September 2020 at 2:04 pm

      I find it illogical too that people in the two areas where Covid is can travel out of those areas at whim. I do think some containment boundaries are required , be it regional or by suburb , until those areas are cleared.

    • McFlock 6.2
      14 September 2020 at 3:17 pm

      I understand the concern about mixed levels without internal borders, but I think the approach is valid.

      • Firstly, placing a hermetic seal around Auckland would be counterproductive: it will piss people off even more, and they'll walk out through forests if need be. Even the Berlin Wall wasn't 100%.
      • Secondly, infection control is about probabilities rather than perfection. There are diminishing returns on efforts in that regard, even if we could ensure 100% compliance. We don't ask people to wear full hazmat suits to go to the shops, even if theoretically that would stop the infections 100%. Masks lower transmission, cheaply, for little effort and training (and if people wear their masks on top of their heads or under their nose, they won't be able to operate a full environment suit).

        So if a few Aucklanders leave under level 2.5, what are the odds of them spreading an infection? What are the odds of that not getting detected early in other regions? Spacing in planes lowers those odds even more. A specific aucklander being detected to having an infection on a given day is currently in the region of a million to one.

      • Third, the levels system is still proportional to the risk presented by specific infection scenarios. Under L4 everyone was locked down. Under L2-3 we're cautious, but not actually too worried that there are clusters or cases we haven't identified as possible contacts. But we still slow stuff down and keep distancing, because if it has gotten out these measures will slow it down.

      I like the idea of bespoke isolation facilities, but I'd actually go so far as to suggest that the government should develop some dual-purpose facilities: hotels/conference venues for even a few decades, but can be adapted into an isolation facility or a refugee/disaster processing centre as and when needed. As in, from the design stage up it can operate as one or the other or even both but separately, with neither group crossing paths at any stage.

      • greywarshark 6.2.1
        14 September 2020 at 3:29 pm

        Thanks for those sound words McFlock. It's practical to sit down and think out the whole situation. We need to understand and not just get irritated with the Why don’t we’s, why can't we's?

      • Treetop 6.2.2
        14 September 2020 at 7:32 pm

        There is no more spacing in planes or on buses. Mask wearing is compulsory. Yet Auckland is still at level 2.5 until a review next Monday.

        So the level 2.5 has changed in Auckland and the rest of the country is still at level 2.

        Correct me if I am wrong.

  7. Whispering Kate 7
    14 September 2020 at 3:00 pm

    Was out in the Albany shopping precinct (mall and adjoining blocks of shops) on Saturday morning and was so impressed with the very high turnout of mask wearers and shoppers using the tracing ap. All ages and ethnicities . I would have put it at about 85%. It was great to see. Then today I was at Glenfield mall for a short visit and the complete opposite was happening. My hubby and myself commented at how many people were wandering around completely mask free. Again all sorts of people and ages. I thought how strange. What it is it that makes some areas compliant and some so non-compliant. Even using the ap was haphazard as I was waiting for the other half (as you do) to finish off what he was doing and was adjacent to the ap and observed people wandering into the mall and not using the ap.

    On another subject. I know this is pretty full on but I can see how people get confused with the PM's announcements. Why is it that people coming into the country whether they are showing symptoms or not have to isolate and be tested over two weeks before going on their way. Then on the other hand the Greater Auckland area has clusters of infection being monitored and in some cases in managed isolation yet we allow our region to travel wherever they like all over NZ taking the bug with them to other areas.

    I understand that commerce has to carry on, goods have to be carried up north and down south but the logic isn't there for me. Surely we the Auckland region needs to be isolated from the rest of the country , get on top of the virus and then allow free travel. Simplistic I know but I am not a logistics wonk just a curious person . Meanwhile the planes are filling up with us lot up here and going to the ski fields and wherever. No wonder the provinces get sick of us!!

  8. greywarshark 8
    14 September 2020 at 3:37 pm

    This seems a sensible spend for the regional fund? Why wasn't it utilised here, and can it still be repurchased for Kapiti area?

    http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=130854

    Sep.9/20 Disastrous consequences if Kāpiti Airport is closed

    • Shanreagh 8.1
      14 September 2020 at 7:01 pm

      I apply first principles here. Nothing comes or will come of depriving people of their land no matter how laudable the proposals by others for the future are. The Maori owners have been deprived of their ownership, and have been for many many years since the land was taken for defence purposes without compensation.

      The land should be returned to the Maori owners forthwith. If the Maori owners wish to negotiate for parts to be used as a commercial entity then so be it. Maori owners have seen large chunks of this land used for private housing and this is so far away from a defence use or even a Govt use as to be a misuse of power by the current occupiers, in my view.

  9. Fireblade 9
    14 September 2020 at 5:24 pm

    Restrictions banning social gatherings of more than six people have come into effect in England. The "rule of six" applies to both indoor and outdoor activities.

    Groups larger than six can be broken up by police, with members of the group facing fines of £100 for a first offence, doubling on each further offence up to £3,200.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54142699

  10. greywarshark 10
    14 September 2020 at 7:45 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/426001/pumice-layer-delaying-140m-highway-was-known-about-before-work-started

    Roads in NZ the biggest fun is getting them afterwards it's pedestrian.

    Foundations for two flyovers on the Baypark to Bayfair project are having to be redesigned because of the instability of a buried layer of pumice.

    The agency has twice said the pumice was "unknown" and was "discovered" during ground works.

    But it now says it knew the pumice was there.

    The impact on costs and schedule is still being worked out on a project where the completion has already been pushed back to December 2022.

    In April, the agency said: "The unknown pumice layer, which was discovered as part of the ground conditions work, could have wide implications on overall construction in the Bayfair area."

    RNZ questioned this as the region is well known for pumice and the agency has had past bad experiences when piles for the nearby harbour bridges threatened to sink.

  11. ickey 11
    14 September 2020 at 9:28 pm

    should the labour party change there name to the middle class party?

    • Maurice 11.1
      15 September 2020 at 7:33 pm

      They do seem intent upon destroying the middle class – or at least reducing it in to common penury …..

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    6 days ago

  • Traffic light levels announced
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  • Financial support to move to traffic light system
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  • New Ambassador to Russia announced
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  • New Permanent Representative to the UN announced
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  • Further COVID-19 economic support for Cook Islands and Fiji announced
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  • New law will clear the air for tamariki in vehicles
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  • Nine countries designated very high risk
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