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Open mike 14/06/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 14th, 2015 - 75 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

75 comments on “Open mike 14/06/2015 ”

  1. Michael 1


    Democrats have rebelled on the TPP/fast track, and its passing is looking less and less likely. Nancy Pelosi, House Democratic leader is not supportive. Hopefully Democrats retain some backbone, which is a bit less likely…

    It’s a bit funny how Democrats are almost unanimously opposing Obama. Pretty embarrasing for him – even the Republican Party can’t garner full support because Tea Party Republicans don’t want to give Obama more power.

    • Wairua 1.1

      … activists are celebrating a pyrrhic victory today as Fast Track was apparently blocked in the House of Representatives by a coalition of Democrats and Republicans.

      The truth is that only its companion bill, the Trade Adjustment Assistance bill (TAA), was defeated in the House. The Trade Promotion Authority (TPA), i.e. the Fast Track legislation, was passed by a small margin of votes (219-211). But, due to the fact that these two bills were passed as one bill in the Senate, both need to be passed in the House before either becomes law. Fast Track has been sidelined for now, but it will be back soon to bite us.

      What isn’t being widely disseminated is that it is likely that the TAA will be voted on again next week. This vote (or one further down the road) will decide whether or not the TAA is passed and if Fast Track will be the means by which the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) will be voted on in Congress once Obama finishes negotiating the deal with his counterparts.

      More at
      http://us6.camp aign-archive1.com/?u=ffdc278104b5964bb04b4251e&id=eb83cb3a87&e=f36be083ee

      • Tracey 1.1.1

        still time for some dissenters to be bought off, like a few weeks ago, when those changing their minds miraculously received donations for their upcoming re-election campaigns.i

      • Kevin 1.1.2

        Only an increase in campaign donations required to pass this. It’s always about the money.

  2. Anne 2

    Reposted from OM – late last night:

    The following is purported to be an excerpt from Hooten’s latest NBR article. It concerns the Think Tank named “Progress” to be set up by Pagani, Leggett, Quinn and co. If the ‘quote’ is accurate (comes from blubber boy’s site which we don’t link to here) then it means someone has YET AGAIN leaked… this time last week’s caucus meeting:

    To discuss their idea, Mr Leggett and Ms Pagani met Mr Little, his deputy Annette King and Labour’s political director Neale Jones. Shortly after, word was put out that Ms Pagani was “stroppy.” According to the leader’s office, Ms King had taken particular offence to Ms Pagani while the leader himself said relatively little.

    Having observed how Ms Clark had responded to her own attempt to roll her in 1996, Ms King acted quickly to arrange a confrontation at Tuesday’s caucus meeting. Ms King, Mr Robertson, Te Atatu MP Phil Twyford and chief whip Chris Hipkins made clear to MPs suspected of being involved with Progress that they should have nothing further to do with it.

    The head of the Rainbow faction, Louisa Wall, supported by Wigram MP Megan Woods, even urged that those involved be expelled from the party altogether. As he had largely done in the original meeting, Mr Little kept his own counsel. Mr Shearer and Mr Parker also knew to stay above the fray. Progress now seems to be going nowhere.

    Setting aside Hooten’s snide dig at Annette King (he can’t help himself and it will bring him down one day) this is becoming an intolerable situation. I’m inclined to agree with Louisa Wall and Megan Woods….

    • Charles 2.1

      In the leaked electoral review document it talked about the “harsher” kind of discipline that could also be summed up as “Mr.Little kept his own counsel”. Anything Hooten says, implies or incites that Labour is, or should do, is wrong.

      There will be leaks. There will be problems. Labour will do everything except change their name to The Lational Party in order to lose voter support between now and 2017. It isn’t intolerable. Don’t be fooled. Support the positive message of the important socially-cohesive issues.

      • Anne 2.1.1

        Charles, I’m not supporting anything Hooten says/implies Labour should say or do. I long ago saw through his often spurious commentary. But if this is what happened then someone has leaked confidential caucus matters and it has ended up in Hooten’s hands. Whoever it was, did so with spiteful intent. It IS intolerable and caucus must stamp out this leaking forthwith. Every time it happens it gives the Nats and their media acolytes another chance to consolidate the perception Labour is a party racked with division. The truth is that under Little it is now a very united caucus but clearly there is still at least one maverick present.

        I have no qualms about Little keeping his own counsel. In matters of a similar nature Helen Clark did the same thing. That is, keep the leader as free as possible from controversy and let other senior caucus personnel do the talking.

        • Karen

          If looking for leaks from caucus I’d first look at the MP linked with the Pagani/Quin group, and that is Stuart Nash.

          • Anne

            I read somewhere that Nash was approached by the Pagani/Quin group but he turned down any involvement in the project. But who knows what the truth really is…

    • David H 2.2

      This continual leaking needs to dealt with. Find the leaker and expel them from the party. No if’s, No but’s, No amnesties!

      • Weepus beard 2.2.1

        The leaker in this instance is the party who walked away from the meeting unhappy, namely Pagani and co, who coincidentally have very strong connections to Hooten, Slater, and Farrar and it is those people who continually quote Quin and Pagani and Nash and Davis as the divine way forward for the centre, centre left in New Zealand.

        All the other leak problems within Labour have come from this same right-of-left group of people who have ambition but no power (the only power they weald is the ability to squeal to Cameron Slater when they don’t get their way).

        The question is, are these people still useful? If so then something will have to be done to include them and create one message. Otherwise, expel them. Out of the current crop of leaders, Little seems the most likely to be able to achieve it.

    • Kiwiri 2.3

      Let’s see … Pagani would have been quite happy that it leaked so that she and her project get more publicity? And the leaker’s ambition exceeds his/her own power or influence (or intelligence) and is aiming at creating more mischief and damage?

    • Tracey 2.4

      and so the recent revelations of problems in National’s caucus have faded away to be replaced by LP problems… and who is helping fan that fire? Why Hooton and WO…

      Those doyens of truth and justice.


      • Karen 2.4.1

        And Phil Quin and Josie Pagani have been adding extra fuel. Don’t forget WO’s links to Pagani, and Stuart Nash’s links to Simon Lush. Quin was a major part of the anti Cunliffe movement.

      • Anne 2.4.2

        The reality is Tracey Labour has not been so unified since the Clark days. I’m 90% sure the right wing Nat. hump of mischief-makers have been egging the Pagani/Quin crowd on. I’d go so far as to say that Pagani and co. spend more time socialising with them than they do with anyone from the L.P.

        It sounds like Annette King took intense umbridge with whatever Pagani was saying when the LP leadership met her and Leggett recently. In 2013/14 whenever Pagani was on TV or radio slagging off the LP membership, I wanted to swipe her across the face I felt so angry and insulted. I think it might have happened to Annette only she was able to curb any temptation to do the same. 🙂

        • Tracey

          Hooton just said that all parties have factions within them… you wouldn’t know it from the media or other things he writes.

          So who in the Nat caucus is the women faction, the gay faction, the left faction, the right faction, the whatever faction?

          I have to agree with Hooton (well, I don’t have to, I choose to). Annette King has probably done her dash. not cos of her age but her roots and connection to the old days… OTOH she does seem to ably represent those of middle NZ that Hooton and Williams say LP needs back… so Hoots also kind of contradicts himself.

  3. AsleepWhileWalking 3

    Update on global push for a cashless society – need to keep people informed about this and how it can be used to steal from the population. This particular update is from Chris Martenson, one of the most rational futurists around.

  4. Molly 4

    Not even a lapsed Catholic, but this current Pope is making my day with his latest papal letter, due to be released on Thursday: Explosive Intervention by Pope set to transform climate change debate.

    “…In a recent speech widely regarded as a curtain-raiser to the encyclical, Turkson said: “Much of the world remains in poverty, despite abundant resources, while a privileged global elite controls the bulk of the world’s wealth and consumes the bulk of its resources.”

    The Argentinian pontiff is expected to repeat calls for a change in attitudes to poverty and nature. “An economic system centred on the god of money needs to plunder nature to sustain the frenetic rhythm of consumption that is inherent to it,” he told a meeting of social movements last year. “I think a question that we are not asking ourselves is: isn’t humanity committing suicide with this indiscriminate and tyrannical use of nature? Safeguard creation because, if we destroy it, it will destroy us. Never forget this.”’

    • weka 4.1


      Pope Francis will call for an ethical and economic revolution to prevent catastrophic climate change and growing inequality in a letter to the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics on Thursday.

      In an unprecedented encyclical on the subject of the environment, the pontiff is expected to argue that humanity’s exploitation of the planet’s resources has crossed the Earth’s natural boundaries, and that the world faces ruin without a revolution in hearts and minds. The much-anticipated message, which will be sent to the world’s 5,000 Catholic bishops, will be published online in five languages on Thursday and is expected to be the most radical statement yet from the outspoken pontiff.

      More locally, according to NewstalkZB, James Shaw is about to announce some new GP initiatives around CC today.

      • weka 4.1.1

        The pope is “aiming at a change of heart. What will save us is not technology or science. What will save us is the ethical transformation of our society,” said Carmelite Father Eduardo Agosta Scarel, a climate scientist who teaches at the Pontifical Catholic University of Argentina in Buenos Aires.


        Ironic that it’s coming from one of the more conservative parts of society.

    • Ergo Robertina 4.2

      It’s not for nothing that we lapsed catholics call him the PR Pope.
      It’s just another strategy designed to revive a degraded institution; other examples are the United States presidency and the royal family.

  5. Wairua 5

    Re. TPP

    The truth is that only its companion bill, the Trade Adjustment Assistance bill (TAA), was defeated in the House. The Trade Promotion Authority (TPA), i.e. the Fast Track legislation, was passed by a small margin of votes (219-211). But, due to the fact that these two bills were passed as one bill in the Senate, both need to be passed in the House before either becomes law. Fast Track has been sidelined for now, but it will be back soon to bite us.

    What isn’t being widely disseminated is that it is likely that the TAA will be voted on again next week. This vote (or one further down the road) will decide whether or not the TAA is passed and if Fast Track will be the means by which the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) will be voted on in Congress once Obama finishes negotiating the deal with his counterparts.


    [lprent: Please don’t put up near identical comments, especially under different handles. It makes me immediately think that you are an astroturfer. Nobody likes them, especially me. I fixed up your link. ]

    [They were both stuck in span and I released both and intended to then delete one but didn’t get round to it – MS]

    • Paaparakauta 5.1

      Aargh .. double post. Apologies ..

    • Paaparakauta 5.2

      Thanks .. good to see are up. I posted an apology which did not appear.
      Too much caffeine in my system, and on-screen responsiveness seemed slow.

      • Paaparakauta 5.2.1

        It’s might be the old laptop I’m using at the moment.

      • lprent 5.2.2

        The server will have been slightly more sluggish this morning. Added two more disks to the main TS array. Means that the cache both locally (memcache) and overseas (CDN) got flushed. It will be rebuilding this morning as people requested static data from various browsers and devices. It usually takes 3-4 hours of NZ day traffic to get to steady state again.

  6. weka 6

    White Man Behind A Desk was on Media Take last week. Starts at 14 mins, but the whole show is worth a watch for its look at NZ satire and news.


    • Marvellous Bearded Git 6.1

      Thanks Weka-excellent.

      We are experiencing the delicious irony that Maori now make by far the best stuff on TV while Pakeha, with all their supposed knowledge and hugely superior resources, mostly make total crap.

      Next Maori will be out-thinking Pakeha on the battlefield…..oh I forgot they’ve already done that.

  7. Ffloyd 7

    Gorgeous photo of Gerry Brownlee on Stuff. Obviously dashed over to rally the troops. Cap, check. Dashing shades, check. FLAK JACKET! Check. A copy will be going on my wall for when I need a good belly(pun intended) laugh. The article is on obesity in the forces. Oh, the irony! Mr Brownlee declined to comment. His mouth was full of doughnut at the time. When I first read this the article commented that Admiral Brownlee had an above average BMI himself (think HUGE) but this has been deleted. Would his flak jacket have had to be especially made? If so, at what cost.?

    • Incognito 7.1

      Gerry doesn’t need a flak jacket because he can dodge Airport Security and bullets better than Neo in The Matrix. The pièce de résistance is, of course, the little white Kiwi on his cap [fully intentional pun]. Aren’t all National MPs made of Teflon and Kevlar but not of blood & bones?

    • David H 7.2

      Oh hell NZ’s version of the Bacon Sandwich

  8. Karen 8

    Phil Twyford ‏@PhilTwyford 1h1 hour ago
    “Nick Smith won’t debate me on @NZQandA but demands unchallenged right of reply after my interview.
    He’s under pressure.”

    Just saw this tweet. How come Smith is allowed to dictate the terms for an appearance on a current affairs show?

  9. joe90 9

    Derek Fox’s appearance on this mornings Marae was a fucking disgrace.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.1

      Of course another crash is coming. Nothings been done to change the financial system from the failure it was in 2008 so it was inevitable that it would fail again and inevitable that it would be another housing crisis that triggered it.

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1

        in fact the Too Big To Fail banks are today even more massive and more over leveraged, than they were in 2008

    • maui 10.2

      If I can paraphrase Peter Schiff, we haven’t had the real crash yet, but it is coming. He also talks about a US dollar crisis. Once other countries lose faith in the US dollar and stop lending them money (because they know the US is in so much debt they won’t be able to pay the money back) then they really are in trouble. China is already moving away from the US dollar.

  10. weka 11

    This from an Action Station email a few days ago,

    Following the ratings crash at TV3, Jay Wintrob the CEO of Oaktree Capital (the company poised to take 100% ownership of MediaWorks) and Jonas Mitzschke (also of Oaktree Capital) are in New Zealand to find out what has been going on at MediaWorks New Zealand. They’ll be making a review of the decisions that have led to this steady decline in ratings for their network. [1] [2]

    This could be our chance to bring back Campbell Live. Will you take 2 minutes to send a quick email to these US bosses asking them to consider bringing back our favourite show?

    Click here to send a quick email to Jay Wintrob and Jonas Mitzschke, Mark Weldon (CEO of MediaWorks) and Julie Christie (Board of Directors at MediaWorks).

    Together we can show them that if they are serious about saving the network they need to bring back John Campbell and Campbell Live. Some people have asked, would John and his team really want to go back to the channel that has treated them so poorly? We can’t speak for John Campbell or his team, but we have spoken to some of them to ensure this isn’t a terrible idea. In fact, we think if there was a big enough shake up at TV3, they may well be happy to return. Wouldn’t that be bloody marvellous?

    Let’s stand together once again and show our commitment to quality, public interest, investigative journalism for the people of NZ.

    Click here to send a quick email: http://www.actionstation.org.nz/secondchance

    We’ve made it really easy for you to do.

    With hope and determination,

    Laura, Marianne, Ryan and Nina.

    ~ References ~

    ‘Ratings 7pm post-Campbell Live’, Throng Website
    ‘US fun poised to take 100pc of MediaWorks’ NZ Herald Business.

    • Ron 11.1

      Why would JC even bother with TV3 after the way they treated him. We want hin on Radio NZ 9-noon slot.

  11. Philip Ferguson 12

    Some recent additions, hopefully of interest, on Redline blog:

    The West on the rampage (1997, but highly relevant): https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/from-the-vaults-the-wet-on-the-rampage-1997/

    Review of New Zealand and the New World (Dis)Order: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/from-the-vaults-new-zealand-and-the-new-world-disorder-reviewe1997/

    New Zealand nationalism, racism and the immigration non-debate: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/nz-nationalism-racism-and-the-immigration-non-debate/

    Ireland: “the class struggle is the source of the national struggle” – interview with eirigi general-secretary Brendan Mac Cionnaith: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/ireland-the-class-struggle-is-the-source-of-the-national-struggle/

    And an excellent piece by James Heartfield on the postmodern abyss from a quarter of a century ago: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/06/10/from-the-vaults-staring-into-the-postmodern-abyss-1990/

  12. weka 13

    James Shaw:

    All new legislation would be subject to a “climate change test” if a Green Party bill is passed.

    Today new Green Party co-leader James Shaw announced a new private members bill, which would require official documents assessing the impact of new legislation to include a section about the impact on the environment.

    The Climate Impact Disclosure Statement Bill will require all new legislation introduced to Parliament to be accompanied by a Climate Impact Disclosure Statement that “outlines what impact, if any, the new legislation would be likely to have on New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions”.

    Already new legislation is subject to Regulatory Impact Statements and Bill of Rights Act Reports.

    “Climate change is impacting almost every aspect of our lives. This bill will ensure that the government considers climate change in everything it does,” Shaw said.

    “This bill will mean that government can’t ignore how their decisions impact on our climate.”

    Shaw announced the bill at the Asia-Pacific Green Federation Congress in Lower Hutt on Sunday, where Green politicians from 16 countries are meeting.

    The environmental impact assessment wouldn’t prevent Parliament from voting through any piece of legislation Shaw said, but would give politicians and the public the opportunity to asses it.


    • Michael 13.1

      That is a great idea.

        • weka

          I was working for PriceWaterhouseCoopers. It’s a global consultancy firm.

          At the time there was this fake debate in politics and in the media, about whether climate change was real or a hoax.

          You had all these scientists debating energy lobbyists who were pretending to be scientists.

          Politicians were saying ‘Well, we just don’t know who to believe. The science is disputed.’

          But some businesses had to take climate change seriously because their profits depended on scientific modelling and long term forecasts.

          Like insurance companies, which rely on accurate actuarial forecasts.

          I read this report commissioned by the insurance industry on the long terms effects of climate change.

          It did some projections based on the available data and it was all very calm and methodical.

          And it concluded that the cumulative impact of extreme weather events and flooding caused by climate change would cause such catastrophic damage to property and loss of lives over the upcoming decades that it would bankrupt the entire insurance industry by the year 2050.

          • Macro

            That report was commissioned by ReMunich (by the way one of the largest reinsurers in the business) and they have been actively pursing policies to combat AGW ever since because they realise that if BAU continues the insurance industry is stuffed – people will not be able to bear the cost of insuring – so no insurance companies anymore. Essentially they are right. Report released today on Scientific American notes we are already committed to 5m of SLR. 🙁

        • weka

          That’s a bloody good speech.

          This is the essence of Green government: smart, strategic policies that slowly but surely lead to transformational change.

    • Ron 13.2

      That is a little weird, Greens cannot introduce any bills unless they suddenly become a government. I presume what he is saying is that they will submit a private members bill into the ballot system. it will sit there until such time as it gets drawn which may never happen. Lot of other bills in there and when they are drawn it depends on the government whether the bill proceeds. This bill would require expenditure so most unlikely to happen.

      • weka 13.2.1

        If you read either the Stuff link or the speech, they both talk about a Private Members Bill.

        What expenditure?

        • weka

          Climate Impact Disclosure Statement

          Ensuring every new piece of legislation acknowledges the reality and costs of climate change.

          Green Party Co-leader James Shaw has released a Member’s Bill to require all Government legislation to have a Climate Impact Disclosure Statement – a report, prepared by the Ministry for the Environment, that outlines the likely impact of the legislation on the climate.

          This means that when a bill is introduced, all MPs, and the public, will get to learn the likely implications of the legislation on New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions and/or New Zealand’s ability to meet its international greenhouse gas reduction target. It will also detail any relationship between the legislation and the Climate Change Response Act.

          It’s a way to ensure that in the development of legislation, climate is a key consideration. It will also give opposition parties good information to hold the Government to account on climate issues.

          Climate change is the biggest issue. We need to be thinking about it when we’re introducing new laws. We need to know the cost of legislation on our climate.

          By ensuring every new piece of legislation acknowledges the reality and costs of climate change, we will see a cumulative, gradual effect – having parliament thinking about our climate all of the time.


        • Ron

          If every bill requires a disclosure statement about Climate effect then whom are you supposing will provide that research at no charge. If it requires a government department or even non government service to provide a service that requires money then the bill is immediately defeated as only ministers can introduce bills that require expenditure.
          Also to introduce a bill into parliament when you are not a minister requires the bill to be submitted to the ballot. The bills can only be debated on Wednesday’s and only 8 bills can be in the ballot on any Wednesday. Bills are withdrawn from the box by ballot and if a bill wins the ballot it can then be debated. Until such time as Government outvotes the bill then it dies.
          You can read about bills here http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/legislation/proposed-bills
          All this could be avoided if National decided to adopt the bill and I guess it is possible that Greens and National have agreed to do this.

          • weka

            Re the disclosure statements, read the links, it’s explained there.

            This is win/win for the GP. It continues their agenda of raising awareness of CC. If the Bill gets selected, then there are a whole bunch of opportunities to raise awareness whether National support it or not. We’re past the point where government can ignore this, too many people are waking up to reality.

            • Ron

              Have read and in the first line it states it will require the Ministry of Environment to provide the disclosure. That surely requires them to spend money and it is not permissible for a bill to proceed if it requires expenditure unless the government picks up the bill and take it over.
              Basically it seems like grandstanding to enter a bill into the ballot with the knowledge that it would be ruled out as soon as the government want to.
              This is despite the rules that govern private members bills. Read the parliamentary url I gave you and you will see there is little chance of it getting near the ballot. Of course maybe some of those Green bills already in the system could be withdrawn that might help.

              • weka

                Can you please link to the bit about expenditure?

                • Ron

                  Its in your previous comment but here it is again from the actual Green media release. It requires a government department to prepare a report for every piece of Government Legislation.
                  I dont know if you have ever worked for a State Department but that report will cost a lot of money. They do not have staff sitting around just waiting for work. It would require a lot of research and that would mean staff needing to travel possibly and hours of work to pull it together.
                  I asked you before who do you think will pay for that. If you are suggesting that it will just be picked up by the department then it is expenditure and is not allowed in a members private bill.

                  Green Party Co-leader James Shaw has released a Member’s Bill to require all Government legislation to have a Climate Impact Disclosure Statement – a report, prepared by the Ministry for the Environment, that outlines the likely impact of the legislation on the climate.

                  • weka

                    “I asked you before who do you think will pay for that. If you are suggesting that it will just be picked up by the department then it is expenditure and is not allowed in a members private bill.”

                    I’m not suggesting it, James Shaw is stating it.

                    I’m asking for a citation that a bill like this won’t be allowed because of expenditure.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Sheeezus, the government of the day funds Ministeries and Departments to carry out their statutory duties via the Budget. The funding is not defined in the bloody legislation.

                    • Ron

                      Good grief Do they not teach anything in schools these days. The Parliamentary system requires that only governments can commit expenditure. It would be chaos of it was otherwise. Why do you think we have a budget? And then a budget debate. Governments expend opositions critique.
                      If a government cannot get a finance bill past parliament they effectively resign.
                      Don’t take my word go do some research I just hope that the Greens are not as naive as some of its supporters.

                    • weka

                      All I’m asking is that you explain what you are talking about. You obviously can’t do that, and now just look like someone trying to undermine the GP.

                      How is this Bill any different than other Members’ bills that would require expenditure?

                      The GP have been in parliament a very long time. Stop being a trole and address the issues.

  13. The New Medical Cannabis based charitable trust has just been registered, and is seeking donations.
    Please donate and spread the word if you support legal access to safe, effective and afforable cannabis derived medicines.

  14. John Shears 15

    Having pasted the interview with Dame Sylvia Cartwright, (Inside Story A9 Herald Saturday- David Fisher) in my scrapbook I then had a bit of a browse and came across this clipping from Finlay MacDonald SST 2009
    Still makes interesting reading in 2015, nothing changes.

    Cut the waffle and answer the question | Stuff.co.nz
    Jul 19, 2009 … For those readers who missed John Key’s speech last week about New Zealand’s economy, here’s a quick summary: Bla bla bla productivity …

  15. Rodel 16

    Great to see Helen Clark interviewed at length by Oksana Boyko on Worlds Apart-RT television,Sunday night. Her depth of intellect, sincerity and grasp of the issues is such a contrast to our current PM.

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