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Open mike 15/04/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 15th, 2019 - 64 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

64 comments on “Open mike 15/04/2019 ”

  1. WeTheBleeple 1

    That’s the shittest introduction to Frankie Boyle I’ve ever read.

  2. Andre 2

    How righties misuse a focus on just income tax to be misleading about who carries the total tax burden.

    https://theintercept.com/2019/04/13/tax-day-taxes-statistics/

    Sure it’s a US analysis, but it’s very likely the same broad conclusions would also apply here.

    Compared to NZ, US income taxes are much more progressive. There is zero income tax for the first few thousand dollars ($6000 single, $12000 married, plus a few more thousand for every dependent in 2018, double that for 2019), then tax rates are much lower for every bracket up to several hundred grand income, then US rates go higher than NZ. The US also taxes capital gains in an income progressive way.

    However, the US also has very regressive “payroll taxes” to fund Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment insurance, at a flat rate that’s currently 12.6% on the first $130k, then zero above that. By semantic fuckery, this is somehow not income tax, just like NZ’s similarly structured ACC earner’s levy is somehow not income tax.

    Then there’s all the state and local income and sales taxes in the US, which can be very regressive. Just like NZ’s GST usually ends up being quite regressive.

    • Sabine 2.1

      thankfully the progressive taxation of the current US left 60 major companies (up 30 – thanks orange despot) with no taxes at all to pay and some even have negative taxes.

      and that is all that counts right?

    • Wayne 2.2

      Andre,

      It probably is not applicable to New Zealand. Although US taxes are more steeply progressive, they get far less as a percentage of GDP. Around 20% compared to around 30% in New Zealand, even though our top rate is 33%.

      The reason being three fold. First, it is actually quite hard to avoid taxes in New Zealand. Second (and much more important) there are very few exemptions in the NZ system, whereas the US tax system is shot full of them, mostly benefitting the wealthy. For instance high depreciation rates for private jets, allegedly to boost the aircraft industry. Third, we have a very broad based GST. Basically no-one can avoid it.

      • KJT 2.2.1

        For once I agree with Wayne.

        The wealthy mostly avoid tax through all sorts of exemption in the USA. More like Greece. Where tax avoidance by the wealthy was also a national sport.

        A simpler tax system here makes avoidance harder. Though we have some big anomalies on the “broadness” of our system.
        We tax work and consumption, rather than capital accumulation and wealth.

      • Andre 2.2.2

        I’d love to see a recent similar study done here in New Zealand, taking into account all sources of income (including capital gains, which will be kinda hard since they don’t even have to be declared as income here), and all taxes and levies.

        I doubt much has changed since the most recent studies I’m aware of, like Rob Salmond’s work from 2011ish.

        http://www.inequality.org.nz/understand/rich-really-pay-tax/

        The high rate of GST is a somewhat regressive tax – the wealthy don’t pay it on some big-ticket items they spend money on, holiday and rental homes, overseas holidays are just the first that come to mind. Whereas for lower income groups, the major GST-exempt expenditures are rent or mortgage interest.

        edit: It’s also worth noting that in the US, company dividends are taxed twice, once at the company level (for those that can’t somehow avoid paying tax on their profits) and once at the individual level. Whereas in NZ they’re effectively only taxed once through the imputation credits system.

      • aj 2.2.3

        W: Is that just federal taxes, or both state and federal?

      • Tricledrown 2.2.4

        1929 coming massive debt and wealth gap protectionism.

      • Tricledrown 2.2.5

        When you take state taxes health insurance, health cover, higher education and no pension. Then the % of income required for what we average out at 25% the US people pay more than double what we pay for services. Bulk buying of health education etc leaves more money in our pockets.

  3. Morena, all. Reason will be taking the day off. Thank you though for at least trying to put some context around your behaviour, however, a long rant referring to multiple sexual assaults was not what was required. Welcome back tomorrow, if you show some restraint.

    WtB, your comment was tied to Reason’s and when it went to trash I think yours did too. But nice Frankie Boyle reference all the same.

    • WeTheBleeple 3.1

      Hehe. I think my one liner made it all worth it.

      But it was good to throw some water on that fire. I hope Reason’s OK he/she seems abnormally stressed.

      • Yeah, it’s only a short holiday because I think a lie down and a cuppa is what’s needed, not the big ban hammer.

        I trust you’ve been watching Frankie’s New World Order? One of the best political shows on telly; George Monbiot on the last episode was particularly good. Monbiot’s best line is around the 25 minute mark, but the whole ep is worth watching.

        • WeTheBleeple 3.1.1.1

          This is one of the only TV shows that produces material potentially as strong as the artists actual stand up.

    • francesca 3.2

      Re Reason
      When someone is clearly distressed , further inflammatory responses aren’t helpful
      Empathy required here, not slurs on mental health.

      • There’s no intention to slur that I can see, Francesca, and I thought empathy was shown in the comments. However, point taken. It’s best not to make assumptions.

      • greywarshark 3.2.2

        I think we should stop putting mental health in the no-go zone, too sensitive to mention; a slur. I believe that we are all slightly mad at present, no joking. Having mental health problems is like being a war veteran, you have been scarred by events that have affected you.

        Suggesting that someone is off their trolley, a sandwich short of a picnic, forgotten the pills, should be a prelude to the words Take care, mate or such,
        just an acknowledgment of the person. There is no right thing to say that wil guarantee not to annoy so keep it loose.

        We are all on the brink at present and trying hard to not walk too close. If someone has gone over it would be kinder and more embracing to acknowledge it in the nature of ‘There but for God go I’.

        Just a thought. But this PC thing about so many conditions that are in plain view just gives me a pain. Notice a problem and consider the person, don’t pretend that there is no problem or difference.

        • WeTheBleeple 3.2.2.1

          Well said.

          The reason I am so open about being an Aspie, or PTSD – basically being a reactive specky git… is I am sick of people acting like we don’t exist, or we should be seen and not heard, or tiptoed around…

          All the people all my life who’d smugly sneer and snipe behind their hands. The cool kids of several industries, largely talentless hacks.

          I hope that I, thorough unashamedly being myself, encourage other Aspies and or troubled minds to stop being shrinking violets, and rightfully take their place at the table as valid and useful members of society.

          It’s not easy trying to help everyone else and being called a retard

          That’s right… RETARD, I CAN say it.

          It’s the N word for special needs 😀

          • In Vino 3.2.2.1.1

            WTB – in my experience, only the insecure feel the need to call somebody else ‘retard’.
            So I like your paragraph: “All the people all my life who’d smugly sneer and snipe behind their hands. The cool kids of several industries, largely talentless hacks.”
            Good one.

            • WeTheBleeple 3.2.2.1.1.1

              Here’s a favorite Aspie

              “Why is there no comedy in Germany? – Did you ever think that you tried to kill all the funny people?”

              • greywarshark

                What a barrel of laughs. I can’t understand what Robin is saying some of the time but as I am sure it is funny I keep laughing.

            • greywarshark 3.2.2.1.1.2

              I’m reminded how feminists decided to ‘own’ the word bitch so as to take away the power of that word. I think many regard it when said angrily as an affirmation. It usually describes a woman who has something of importance to say and speaks her mind, and gets things done.

              I think black people use the ‘n’ word about each other a bit like a bloke saying to a friend, ‘You old bastard’. But black people wouldn’t accept the ‘n’ word in common usage. Their past as in Strange Fruit is too painful, (and present).

          • KJT 3.2.2.1.2

            😊

    • Gabby 3.3

      How’s the spree going tooty pooty?

  4. Ad 4

    Very interesting to see almost no pre-Budget announcements.

    This is a departure from way, way back.

    It tells me with mental health, capital gains policy decisions, and major infrastructure work decisions pending, this is going to be a very big kind of budget.

    • alwyn 4.1

      Alternatively, and much more likely I think, is that Grant has collapsed in the corner sobbing that it is all to hard and he has no idea what to do.
      He wants to know how Bill English and Stephen Joyce seemed to be able to do it so easily. Telling him that it was because they knew what they were doing just makes him cry even harder.
      I think you will find that all the things you mention will simply be thrown into the “too hard” basket.
      The only thing that will rise is the New Zealand First Slush Fund and James Shaw’s overseas travel budget.

      • KJT 4.1.1

        English and Joyce knew what they were doing?

        Thanks for the joke of the week.

        You could say they were competent, I suppose.

        At stealing the last remnant of the commons.

        And pretending natural disasters and more people, was an economic, plan!

  5. marty mars 5

    I am worried about this stuff – stay safe.

    The White House escalated its assault on the Muslim American congresswoman Ilhan Omar on Sunday, after Donald Trump repeatedly tweeted video footage of September 11 and accused Omar of downplaying the terror attacks.

    Supported by a wave of Democrats saying Trump was wilfully misrepresenting comments by Omar in what amounted to dangerous racist bullying, the congresswoman on Saturday said she would not be silenced by “an administration that ran on banning Muslims from this country”.

    “No one person – no matter how corrupt, inept, or vicious – can threaten my unwavering love for America,” Omar tweeted.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/14/ilhan-omar-trump-9-11-september

    • vto 5.1

      Agreed this is extremely dangerous.

      Trump is basically letting his goons loose on the muslim community.

      Scary, very scary

      • Anne 5.1.1

        Yes. Trump and his ‘goons’ are inciting fascists around the world to follow up the ChCh massacre with further atrocities against Muslim communities – the new version of the Blackshirts of the 1920s and 30s?

        That is why even minor transgressions like the harassment of Auckland University students by ‘white supremacists’ can no longer be tolerated as just normal youthful behaviour. In the current climate, it should be taken seriously by those in positions of influence.

        • UncookedSelachimorpha 5.1.1.1

          And of course when these attacks happen – Trump will say ‘thoughts and prayers’ and ‘lone wolf’ and ‘no one could see this coming’ etc etc…followed up by a healthy dose of victim blaming.

    • Adrian Thornton 5.2

      I completely agree with you there, to get even more worried check out Trumps speech at the Republican Jewish Coalition…which makes you wonder how any progressive could blindly go along with the Trump administration’s move on Julian Assange…strange bedfellows some people have.

  6. marty mars 6

    Haters speak.

    The pamphlet titled One Treaty One Nation, calls for an end to state partnership with Māori, scrapping the Waitangi Tribunal, Māori electorates and wards and says Māori have benefited from colonisation lifting them out of “a violent stone age existence”.

    Andrew Little who is overseeing a review of hate speech in the wake of the terrorist attacks told the Herald his view was the pamphlet is racist.

    “It peddles myths about pre-European Maori society that historical scholarship does not bear out. If it demonstrates anything, it is that the author of it is an ignorant fool.” …

    … The Advertising Standards Authority confirmed it is considering a complaint by Pt Chevalier resident Emma Vere-Jones…

    … Vere-Jones doubted the pamphlet should be allowed as free speech because it included material that was “inaccurate” and its claim to promote equality was “disingenuous”.

    “It misses the point that indigenous people in countries that have been colonised absolutely don’t fare well. It is not a level playing field.”

    “I felt pretty annoyed about it. And if it riles me as someone who is Pakeha, then how does it feel if you are Maori … and that arrives through their letter box.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12221767

    Thanks Emma

    • Gabby 6.1

      Is she related to Peter, best radio voice in the land?

    • “The concern for me is that if there is no one to complain to, does that mean it is okay for people to put that sort of thing in my letterbox. I don’t think it is. There needs to be some sort of recourse.”

      There has to be some sort of recourse for having been exposed to an opinion you don’t like? Fret not, Emma – there are a number of paths open, one of which you quickly found: the one in which you attract the media’s attention and they publish your thoughts on the matter.

      However, the article suggests you meant “recourse” in the sense of “What’s the government going to do about it?” In that sense, the government’s responsibility to punish the expression of opinion you don’t like is non-existent, in fact it has the opposite responsibility: to not punish the expression of opinion.

      • marty mars 6.2.1

        “Little said it needed to be clear where people could take complaints. “One of the things I want to see out of the review of our hate speech laws is whether the avenues open to members of the public to complain about hate speech are accessible enough.” ”

        Bit behind the program there eh PM. Seems Emma was correct in her concern and reading the article it seemed like she tried a few different avenues to find a correct place to put her complaint. Good that Minister Little has it on his radar now.

        • Psycho Milt 6.2.1.1

          If you have a complaint about someone else’s opinions it shouldn’t really matter where you put it, because you’re the only person who gives a shit.

          However, it certainly sounds like Little imagines it is the government’s job to punish people for expressing unpopular opinions, which doesn’t bode well for the future at all. I hope no government gets the numbers in Parliament to start fulfilling Little’s ambitions.

          • marty mars 6.2.1.1.1

            “If you have a complaint about someone else’s opinions it shouldn’t really matter where you put it, because you’re the only person who gives a shit.”

            In the world we all live in people do give a shit which is why there are procedures and policies and sometimes those policies get reevaluated and that is happening now so all good.

          • alwyn 6.2.1.1.2

            ” it certainly sounds like Little imagines it is the government’s job to punish people for expressing unpopular opinions,”.
            No he doesn’t think that at all. What he means is

            It certainly sounds like Little imagines that it is HIS government’s job to punish, AND SILENCE, people for expressing opinions THAT ARE UNFLATTERING ABOUT HIS GOVERNMENT.

            There, fixed it for you. I really should find out how to do italics or bold type rather than look like I am intending to shout.
            And stopping people expressing their opinions, no matter how much you dislike them or find them silly is obscene.

            • WeTheBleeple 6.2.1.1.2.1

              “I really should find out how to do italics or bold type rather than look like I am intending to shout.”

              Like many of your mates, you sit there with a search engine in your hands and fail to comprehend what it is. While ironically trying to slag the performance of the left as clueless.

              Silence for BS like you sprout, it would help the countries mental health not to listen to such utter shite.

              But apparently, even the lowest of us have rights. though you’d like that changed pronto I bet. Goddamn wimmin in power! WOT???!

              • alwyn

                Now, now.
                If you start ranting on like that you will spill your nice evening cup of Milo.
                That would never do. Mummy would be terribly upset by your loss of control.

                By the way I do not “slag the performance of the left” as a group. I only slag the ones who really are hopeless. Twitford and Davis are examples, as are people like Shaw. I had a great admiration for Shearer actually. Pity Cunliffe and his mates did the dirty on him.

                • WeTheBleeple

                  Mum’s dead, and weed is the new Milo.

                  In my first reply to you, I wrote the post, then searched and learned to do the italics etc before time to edit ran out…

                  Tick tick tick.

                  BOOM

            • Psycho Milt 6.2.1.1.2.2

              Italics: start the italicised text with [left angle bracket] i [right angle bracket], close it with [left angle bracket] /i [right angle bracket].

              Bold: substitute ‘b’ for ‘i’ in the above.

              “Angle brackets” are on the comma and full stop keys.

              That said, I don’t think your fix is accurate. A pamphlet saying that Whitey benefited Māori by supposedly saving them from a violent, stone age existence isn’t unflattering to Andrew Little’s government, it’s unflattering to Māori, and in fact racist. Why Little, the complainant Emma de Vere, Marty Mars and me don’t like the pamphlet is straightforward – what’s not is the bit where it’s supposedly Andrew Little’s job to do something about it. Unflattering views about his government have nothing to with it either way.

  7. adam 7

    Probably a bit much for the centre left, the forest of capitalism explained, and why we need it gone.

  8. adam 8

    God bless Jackie Walker.

  9. Andre 9

    I’m sure everything will be relieved to learn Assange’s cat is well and safe. Although the proof is disturbingly like a hostage video.

    Gotta wonder what’s on its collar, too. Or maybe I’ve watched MIB too many times.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/13/uk/julian-assange-cat-safe-trnd/index.html

  10. Jimmy 10

    Cameron Bagrie the economist is now saying Steven Joyce was right about the 11.7 billion hole and in fact its likely to be bigger!

  11. Rosemary McDonald 11

    Louisa Akavi.

    Nurse, Kiwi, abducted at gunpoint by Islamic terrorists in 2013, and last possible sighting in late 2018. The story of her being taken hostage has been kept under wraps for her safety, with IS vowing to kill her. Publicized now as there are grave concerns she may be caught up in the shit storm that is Baghouz.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/387073/fears-grow-for-new-zealand-nurse-louisa-akavi-kidnapped-in-syria-in-2013

  12. CHCoff 12

    Introduced corporate Gender Equality

    heavy FTTs weighted to profits going up, when supply is stationary, lagging or insufficient ( i.e. speculative distortion on supply & demand functioning in economy)

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  13. Eco Maori 13

    Kia ora The Am Show.
    Finding ones whakapapa is of utmost importance lost and found.
    It will be exerlinte to see the Allblacks play free to AIR and streaming by spark.
    I think OUR Prime Minister has been a good leader
    I say that Jack is just letting the world know how hard they work
    Our humanatiarin agencys do a good they put there lives at risk helping the needy.
    I say that the doctors and health establishment should use medical weed to help the elderly keep off opiods . The people who are anti medical weeds reality is stuck in the past medias propergander against weed they can not see reality that its a medical not poision like alcohole.
    Cool Boh Runga is championing tree planting they are a very important part of OUR enviroment Ka kite ano

  14. Eco Maori 14

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/94dBVPpymac

  15. Eco Maori 15

    The leftys KNOW the low down dirty tricks the ightys will do to get revenge or stuff up a person thats putting the TRUTH OUT THERE.
    People don’t be fooled that the world justice systems are there to sereve all people KNOW The worlds justice systems are here to protect the 00.1 % it lets them ripp off the 99.9 % of people so they can kill steal abuse the common person and the system protects them they get to use there money to get a get out of jail free card the justice systems protect the 00.1% the police sell there buddy services to the wealthy and make all there problems with the justice system go away like zanes .
    There is justice you just have to have a big check book to buy it

    Why is the left blinkered to claims about Assange and sexual assault? Ka kite ano links below P.S its quite clear Julian’s been set up

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/15/left-blinkered-claims-julian-assange-sexual-assault

  16. Eco Maori 16

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  17. Eco Maori 17

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  18. eco maori 18

    Kia ora Newshub
    It is a sad loss the Church burning down in France.
    They are fleeing the sinking toilet.
    Surely the hospital can provide a safe work place for there workers.
    The tax system is flawed the common person pays as we EARN company’s do not have to pay as they earn can you see the big flaw,
    Its sad all the people living in refugee camps that are not fit for anyone to live in .
    The 2020 American elections is going to be a good one I have picked my candidate
    Its A must to make sure that one has the correct gear for tramping and camping hunting to be safe and keep safe.
    I say its awesome that the bar is being raised for foreigners to buy NZ property
    Ka kite ano P.S had to jump throught a few hoops to get this out with the sandflys killing slowing my internet broad band feed

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