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7:00 am, September 15th, 2019 - 127 comments
Categories: open mike -
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Profile of an influential young NZ activist https://storyo.co/stories/laura-oconnell-rapira
Yay. In before Pete!
Not by much. 🙁
Can picture it. 7am alarm goes off. Jumps out of bed. Makes toast and a cuppa. Grabs the latest installment out of the newspaper and he’s off……….
It's also pretty easy to copy and paste a post you've already prepared for your own website: https://yournz.org/2019/09/15/complainant-labour-party-will-have-to-address-archaic-power-structure/
Yes. That crossed my mind but wanted to be short and sweet.
You're wrong. I posted here first, then decided to cut and paste to a post at YNZ.
Why are you being so petty?
Nothing petty about early morning amazement.
Petty messenger attacking again. Ironic particularly for Anne.
If I made things up like this about a regular here I suspect I'd be hammered for it.
And wrong. I was up at 5:30 researching for a house painting project I'm working on. Made. Watched Deep Blue with my granddaughter who is staying, then made a cuppa for everyone.
I was right about the cuppa then. 😀
You have no sense of humour Pete.
Well done.
Complainants want the Labour Party to address it's archaic power structure, and hope that Jacinda Ardern can make it happen.
Alison Mau:
I think that Ardern will understand that there's lot riding on this – for the victims of course, but also for the reputation of the Labour Party and it's attractiveness to young people, especially to young females.
Labour has talked about gender balance for years, but has failed to provide a safe environment for young people, especially females.
Note the names of those who seem to have been responsible for male staffer protection debacle – Nigel, Grant, Andrew, Rob.
And there's a lot riding on this for Jacinda herself. Her reputation, her primary attractiveness as a new generation leader who is a caring and empathetic champion of gender balance and rights, is on the line.
She needs to make sure the repair job from here is done transparently. If the inquiry terms of reference are stacked in favour of the party and the Council, if the report is kept secret like the last one, if there is a lack of openness and no public sign of real repair and progress, then Ardern have failed to live up to her PR, again.
"(We will tell her) here are some conditions that the party needs to look at, before any of us feel comfortable coming back into these (Labour) spaces."
That cannot be done in secret, because it is not just the group of victims who want change, it's the future of the party at stake. Prospective party recruits – volunteers and candidates – need to know that Labour has finally learnt from multiple failures and put things right.
Grant is not a staffer. Nice try though.
I didn't say he was a staffer.
It has been claimed (and not denied) that he was closely associated with the (now ex) staffer, and was aware of the seriousness of allegations and, if we are to believe Ardern, kept important information from her as did the other men named above.
Sorry, next time I will paste your words into my reply to make sure I read them more carefully. Could have sworn it said ‘the names of those staffers’.
"It has been claimed (and not denied)", and "if we are to believe" appear to be attempts to convince that any scurrilous accusation put forward without evidence must be given as much credence as supported facts. We have heard a lot of conjecture, and undoubtledly some fact, but separating the two has not been easy, or I suggest for most people possible. What started out as a complaint of office bullying seems to have developed into harrassment, sexual misconduct, and now serious sexual abuse. We don't know whether this is by a single individual to another individual, or by more than one of either culprit or victim. We generally trust our media, but we do not know what they have heard themselves or been told by others. I trust some of the media who have reported enough to believe that there has been some matters that needed and still need addressing. if we are talking about an employment matter it is not clear who that employer is – the Labour Party appears to have been involved but not Parliamentary Services. If there are criminal matters it is not clear why the victim(s) has or have not been prepared to report a crime to the police, or whether threats or inducements have discouraged police involvement. Now I have enough trust in our media to believe that they do not get everything wrong; I believe there has been at least one incident that either should not have happened and/or should have been dealt with differently. In the meantime the question of who knew what when is a sideshow, but a recent further article in the SpinOff does at least indicate that one journalist is convinced that Jacinda Ardern did not know of the extent of the complaints until last Monday.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/14-09-2019/on-the-labour-party-crisis-and-jacinda-ardern/
If you know more, Pete, then by all means post the information with the evidence – provides that does not impede a possible criminal investigation of course), but if you do not have impeccable evidence, perhaps it is better to wait rather than to assume that every "claim" is automatically credible.
Tracy Watkins: Jacinda Ardern must force Labour to face itself in the mirror
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/115804055/editorial-jacinda-ardern-must-force-labour-to-face-itself-in-the-mirror
[Added the correct punctuation in the quoted text; you wouldn’t want to create an impression that you might be quoting selectively, would you? Pete, you should know and do better. Next time, I’ll delete the text and only leave the link. In fact, I getting itchy fingers when I see large texts being copied & pasted here – Incognito]
[Pete should know better as he had a three week ban for the same thing in 2017. Perhaps he forgot, but I think another ban now will help him cement this in his mind. He’s also been moderated more than once in various ways over not linking.
Pete, you’re a really long term commenter, you know the deal: always link, don’t misquote, and try to avoid long tracts of cut and pastes. Looking at your comments to Sacha you appear to not understand the problem here. When you cut and past different pieces of an article you have to make it clear that they are not one block of text. If you still don’t get this, ask one of the moderators for clarification when you get back.
3 weeks again, given it’s been a long time, but expect bans to get longer for repeat offenses. Interim ban, as I’ll run this past the mods already active in this thread – weka]
[ban reduced to a week. Pete the key point here about quoting is that if you post separate sections of someone else’s work, you have to make it clear you have removed bits. This is quite different than what Sacha did, which was to post part of an article, but with no bits cut out of the part he quoted – weka]
The outcome must be that NZ faces itself in the "mirror". I'm a bit perplexed, and the use of the words men & women is solely to make a point that has occurred to me. In various comments and positions on this on an emotive level, and not necessarily based on facts that anyone can confirm, some of those now most concerned with the victims have not displayed that concern previously and appear to be purely political. Has it it been decided from an editorial perspective that having mainly "women" journalists, it appears to me anyway carry the message these or any offences are Labour's "fault". I hope not because the story, the facts and where that leads NZ is all I want to hear.
Labour has been at fault here. Not once but twice, badly, with multiple victims in both.
But it is symptomatic of whole of New Zealand society problems. The National Party has had it's own embarrassing problems, publicly as recently as last year.
Law firms have been in the spotlight.
It is generally and strongly agreed that our judicial system has is not fit for purpose, overall and particularly related to sex offences (and probably violence offences which are often connected).
Abuse of power is a common factor.
The law business community has tried to fix it's problems.
National say they have addressed their handling of bullying and sexual matters in the wake of the Jami-Lee Ross affairs. There's no way of the public knowing if that has been effective.
A review of the judicial system is currently under way.
And Labour re running their own inquiry into their mishandling of things.
Media will be scrutinising how Labour handles this.
While it is a whole society problem a lot depends on how Labour handles this.
For a start, it could be a major factor in determining who our next Government is led by.
But it's bigger than that. If the Prime Minister and the major governing party openly deal with this well it will (finally) set a good example from the top that society needs to reform how it views and deals with bullying. violence, sexual violence and abuse of power.
If Labour sweep this under the carpet again then (some of) society will see this as a signal that sweeping under the carpet and business as usual (abuse as usual) is still normal practice.
I'm fine with that but remain perplexed that Nat Party inquiries and outcomes were not so scrutinised and followed up on by media.
National had just one major issue last year, Jami Lee Ross.
Labour stuffed up twice in a row.
Another difference is that the first of Labour's issues (summer camp attacks) involved illegal behaviour that went to court.
And the second has allegations of serious offences that many think should have gone to court.
There's also the problem that Ardern was seen as a champion of young people and of women's rights, and is seen to have failed on both.
Look, other than those who abuse and those who will use any part of this for political gain I can not think anyone who would want anything other than this "(finally) set a good example", can you?
…the first of Labour's issues (summer camp attacks) involved illegal behaviour that went to court.
It involved illegal behaviour of the kind that happens at parties in this country every weekend and doesn't usually end up in court because the media aren't interested and there's no political propaganda to be had from it. The perps in those cases are usually either not dealt with, or dealt with via public shaming or violence rather than complaints to the Police.
The fact that some men behave like that when drunk is a rape culture issue, not a Labour Party issue, and the prurient interest in this particular instance is mostly either politically motivated or just hand-wringing from conservatives who've led sheltered lives. Or both, I suspect, in your case.
I think this is a good summary.
Reflect on the rugby player in an airport toilet situation a couple of years back. Not the 'incident', the media handling of it and the explosion of public hysteria that generated.
The media love a good feeding frenzy and generating one is good for business, and egos. Couple that with the team at newstalkzb and the likes of Matthew Hooton quite simply wanting Labour and Jacinda Arden gone, the scenario is perfect.
Thank you, as a mother and a grandmother I have kept my opinion on that incident largely to myself as I knew it would not be popular to say what I thought and how I would use such examples. In an effort to keep them all safe "boys & girls" pointing out that things may not turn out always as you hope was a mainstay. That's not about blame it is about people, young people who as you say across the country can end up making utter fools of themselves when alcohol is at hand and even when it's not. That is part of the lesson the young need to learn hopefully sooner rather than later and even more so on the roads and in cars!
Granted there is a rape culture issue with drunken youth but this was a Labour Camp for under 16's where there was lotsa booze available and it was sanctioned by Labour. Not too many of us would allow or have a cabinet of (free?) booze at our children's 16th birthdays and not too many parents would approve of their children attending any teenage function where liquor was freely available to them. I think the party has to own this.
My parents sure as hell wouldn't have approved of the drinking I was doing at ages 15 – 17, but on the plus side, what they didn't know didn't hurt them. All this hand-wringing about Labour failing to prevent alcohol sullying the sacred temple of teenagers' bodies makes Doug Sellman look like a bad-ass.
Are you sure it was a camp "for" under 16s or a youth camp that incl that group and above, I very much doubt there were 13-15s there but you can correct me with some facts.
So much of the Jamie Lee Ross superbly mismanaged debacle was hidden. There's a lot there we need to know. Pompous Paula was right out of line divulging private information on public television which started Jamie's downward mental spiral.
Also what happened to that poor ' mistreated' woman Sarah Cowie who also in a drunken rage of rejection also contributed to his ultimate step of thinking of ending his life.
NOTHING! She's still in her very responsible role in the NationalParty. So what she did was acceptable to them?? Some double standards in there somewhere.
And petulant,perfidious Paula preaching from her pulpit of presumed power should take a look in her own back yard before trying to topple Jacinda with rabid rhetoric. I'm sure there is any amount of weed there that needs to be exposed. For the good of the country of course. Paula is fuelled by hatred for Jacind a.
National had just one major issue last year, Jami Lee Ross.
Pfft. There were two that we know about.
What about Richard Worth? He sexually abused two women (the ones we know about) and got away with it.
What about Mike Sabin?
Very selective in your interminably long and boring offerings aren't you.
I you're going back that fr why re you being selective and omitting the likes of Hughes?
Worth was quickly dumped by Key. Media have compared that prompt action to Ardern's inaction.
Compared it how, exactly? Key's "prompt action" was very good for him and the National Party but did nothing for Worth's victims, nothing to improve public awareness of rape culture and how to respond to it, and nothing for openness and transparency in government. The fact that you compare Key favourably with Ardern in that case suggests you're thinking of this entirely in terms of how cleverly some players are playing a game.
Yes, prompt action is the only way – if only the people who were complained to had had the nous to realise that. And Key had never promised the most open and transparent Govt. ever.
Yes, prompt action is the only way…
In that particular case, it was the best way to minimise political damage to brand Key and the National Party. Whether it was also a good thing for the victims or not we'll never know, but my money's on them not getting even a second thought.
And Key had never promised the most open and transparent Govt. ever.
I don't recall Ardern promising that either.
It's commendably honest of right-wingers to admit that they just assume a National government's going to act in its own interests and conceal that from voters, but unfortunately (and I get sick of having to point this out), National itself is not so honest:
Bill English, 2014:
He told TV3's The Nation this morning that Prime Minister John Key ran the "most transparent government that New Zealand's ever seen".
It may or may not go to court. What many think is irrelevant to the due process except for putting undue pressure on those who could make it happen.
Public perception and opinion is influenced if not manipulated to a large degree by the media. To me, you come across as a media accomplice not as a truth seeker. I prefer the latter and these people differentiate themselves from the main crowd not be being more intelligent, more confident, or being louder (e.g. boasting and bragging) but by nuance, humility, sophisticated and critical thinking, and generally admitting that they know
shitnothing in the first place.Ummm. Have you ever actually read a report of this kind? I have.
It is full of material that was given under confidentiality, is full of inadmissible hearsay, people names, and is deeply prejudicial to any subsequent court processes.
Releasing it may be appreciated to the prurient dribblers slavering over the underwear details. However it doesn’t help anyone apart from journalists after column inches and airtime.
Perhaps you and the idiot who wrote that quoted piece should engage your brain rather than your lust for gossip and consider what options gets killed if that kind of report gets released. For a start, just think of the consequences for victims.
Sometimes you are just an idiot.
Are you under the impression we don't know where Stuff is or something, Pete?
He's like a dog with an old bone. Can't leave it alone. Either that or he is trolling in which case it might be necessary for a moderator to intervene. It's been going on for nearly a week.
I do not believe Mr George is trolling, just fixated.
It can be a fine line between being fixated and needing a fix.
So you're trying to influence moderators to shut things down?
This has been the biggest story in political media all week. Given how important it is to Labour, I would have thought it would be of interest to discussions here – unless the intent is to aid the apparent Labour Party coverups, which looks increasingly what some are trying to do.
[lprent: You must be blind. There have been comments all over the site for days. Unlike you, some of them have actually had suggestions about what should be done to prevent this kind of crap again.
I realise that you prefer to act as a brainless critic who carps and can’t offer any ideas. But perhaps you should try exercising your brain a bit.
But my toleration for outright lying by you and other is wearing very thin. If you can’t bring yourself to actually participate in debate about how to solve a problem – then leave. ]
It's Sacha and Anne who have been making things up here, but par for the course for me to get the threats to shut up..
What have I made up?
9 September 2019 at 12:19 pm
"There were these two terriers who loved the scent of blood…"
No, I'm under the impression that people here have been trying to avoid discussing an issue that is important not just to Labour but to the Government and the country.
And I don't care what sources you may read, I'm not doing it for you.
You could ignore things here that you've already read rather than join the petty pile-on.
Just as well there's a fearless moral conscience here to set things straight then. Undies on the outside!
I'm under the impression that people here have been trying to avoid discussing an issue that is important not just to Labour but to the Government and the country.
The lengthy threads of people discussing it gave you that impression, did they? I dread to think what you imagine not avoiding discussing it would like.
I haven’t noticed that Pete George has managed to suggest anything constructive on this topic. He still appears to be coming up to speed with his own lack of knowledge on the issues.
In fact his most recent post quotes some actual sensible advice from Young Labour via Alison Mau that appears to have been written here. That essentially says that the Labour Party shouldn’t try to rely on internal expertise to handle these kinds of issues, but should get outside expertise.
Reading PG, it is hard to see that he managed to grasp the point. That the core problem is that Labour simply doesn’t have in-house expertise and shouldn’t be trying to do their own investigations.
They’re saying a QC – but fundamentally that is way too expensive to do every time that someone raises these kinds of issues.
To be frank it’d be simpler to disband Young Labour so the Labour Party can get on with what we pay levies for. Just about every dumbarse political crap of this kind has arisen out Young Labour or the barely grown dickheads having access to them (think Darren Hughes).
Or perhaps the answer go the other way give and give the Labour Party the authority to launch criminal prosecutions. There are some National MPs and ex ones that I would be interested in seeing in court explaining their behaviour….
Perhaps Pete should try to contribute his actual ideas rather than stroking his outrage
Couldn't agree more!
In my day we young things worked through the main party. We learned from our elders how to behave in a political environment and they gave us the benefit of their knowledge and expertise, so that we were well informed and could avoid the ever present pit-falls of political life. Most of all we learnt how to socialise with all age groups and to show respect for the elderly who knew a darn sight more about life than we did.
I am opposed to lowering the voting age precisely for the type of behaviour we have seen in recent times and which has become all too prevalent among so many young people in this country.
The people who caused a problem were not Young Labour this time. Two people with vast experience made bad decisions, which has made things harder for the complainants and definitely harder for the PM.
She went to the heart of it.
1. What the complainants needed to happen
2. An independent 3rd party to look at actions and facts.
3. The PM to be kept in the loop.
Out of all of that….
4. To change Labour's culture in this sphere to make the Party spaces safer in the future.
May it succeed.
I disagree about disbanding Young Labour. A Youth wing is essentially the school/club rugby of a political party – people build skills, connections and interests, and also do a lot of the ground work for local actions.
But all youth groups need to be properly supervised, otherwise harmful cultures can build up (especially around alcohol).
But this staffer thing has nothing really to do with Young Labour beyond an incidental connection and that it shows Labour didn't learn a damned thing about how to deal with sensitive complaints in an informal environment.
So – what about the children? Labour can'yt disassociate itself from pastoral care for its voters and its young adherents in Young Labour as well. Get back to some good old fashioned interest and leadership for the young where it isn't all about money and immediate power and advantage.
I was thinking more "have a rotating watch of authority figures who intervene to stop people getting too drunk", sort of thing.
What the YL incident and the student law society camp complaints in the last few years had in common was that most things being complained about happened after the adults/authority figures left/went to bed.
Then there's the issue of how to resolve complaints after they occur.
Prevention, and if prevention fails go to treatment.
Yeah nah – the Key government moved heaven and earth to protect Mike Sabin.
Any process becomes difficult when the guy running it is the guy you're trying to stop.
See my Moderation note @ 7:49 AM.
I see that. So Sacha can selectively quote, then complain about me selectively quoting, and you choose to dump on me? (I know it's your call).
[Don’t be so melodramatic! You know how things work here and you have been warned before about your incessant pasting & linking here. It is in the Policy:
I’m not impressed with you playing dumb and/or tit-for-tat games with Sacha.
Your hypersensitivity to criticism is showing. I did not “dump” on you; I warned you through a moderation note, and the correct term for that is “moderate”. Please note that you have been wasting moderators’ time [plural] and if you keep this up you will be ‘dumped’ (you and I know it’s your call) – Incognito]
[Edit: I just saw that Weka has already taken action that is more decisive; I’m just fudge]
See my Moderation note @ 12:32 PM.
Pete is lucky I didn't see the dumping comment until after I had moderated. I agree the ball is in his court now (there's a note in the back end about the length of the ban).
Thanks and I responded in the back-end.
moderation note for you Pete.
"The Wheels of Justice turn slowly but exceedingly fine."
Pete, please show it when you leave out chunks of an article as you have done here in at least two separate posts today. I understand you are simplifying but wrapping quotes around the whole passage misrepresents the original source.
Posting such large parts of each article may also discourage readers here from bothering to click through to the original. Took me a second coffee.
You "left out chunks" of the article that you quoted from.
Which article?
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15-09-2019/#comment-1655068
[HTH]
[link fixed – weka]
Do you mean my post #1? What have I left out from between the two (continuous) paragraphs I quoted?
A moderator has fixed one of yours above at 2.2, for comparison.
The staff of the Labour party are about 20-30 people all up. I believe that most if not all have had this training. Certainly we don’t appear to have received any complaints from them about their behaviour.
Where they have arisen to date they have come from (in no particular order) volunteers, MPs, parliamentary staff, and random idiots who apparently weren’t even members and just turned up.
Certainly the party needs to craft a policy on it. That should be farmed out to someone with actual expertise in dealing with workplace bullying and sexual assaults. Their primary role shouldn’t be to investigate. It should be to support and shepard the complaints to the appropriate authorities so that they get dealt with.
this piece from jonothan franzen has been getting some attention..
in it he argues that we are pretty much fucked..
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/what-if-we-stopped-pretending
'The climate apocalypse is coming.
To prepare for it, we need to admit that we can’t prevent it.'
Great article which pretty much sums up my feelings towards this and many other issues. For all the platitudes and tokenism their isn't actually the political and social will to make the changes necessary to prevent this impending doom. There will be one day when we are on the precipice of the apocalypse. But when that day arrives, a hollow feeling will swell in those peoples stomachs when they finally realize that they can now do nothing, their time has come and gone, and any grand scheme to prevent our destructions time was 20 to 50 years ago. As I said last week, I have taken steps to ensure my hopeful survival and adapt as best as I can. Will it work? Probably not, but at least I'm giving it my best effort. If only our leaders and people in influence would do the same.
There will be one day when we are on the precipice of the apocalypse. But when that day arrives, a hollow feeling will swell in those peoples stomachs when they finally realize that they can now do nothing,
Has that day arrived? There is significant evidence that the ssw event has forced a catastrophic (bifurcation ) reversal in the antarctic atmosphere.ie near reversal of the polar vortex,decreased ozone loss (and breakup of the ozone hole)
The increased probability for a wetter,colder and windier spring,summer in NZ with decreased mean T.Is that good for NZ?
http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/tcc/tcc/products/clisys/STRAT/gif/pole10_sh.gif
https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/meteorology/figures/ozone/omds_2019_toms+omi+omps.pdf
https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/meteorology/figures/merra2/wind/u45_75s_10_2019_merra2.pdf
I personally believe that day arrived 15 years ago. All we can really do now imo is prepare as best we can for a horrible future.
The problem with Franzen article,is that he cited a paper where he invoked catastrophe (which did not exist)
According to a recent paper in Nature, the carbon emissions from existing global infrastructure, if operated through its normal lifetime, will exceed our entire emissions “allowance”—the further gigatons of carbon that can be released without crossing the threshold of catastrophe.
https://twitter.com/KenCaldeira/status/1170775296825425922
cant access the graph you have in your link but ask the question…do you accept the rational behind the IPCC's target of staying below a 2 deg C increase?
rationale
Here is a better graph from the paper using the IPCC scenario.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAl1NApXoAAfSLK.jpg:large
My opinion is to read what the science is suggesting.Not what various purveyors of crisis are suggesting.
The emergent scientific consensus is the IPCC science irrationally.Not by sceptics but alarmists and it has no place in science analysis.
the wmo sg statement here.
In my interview, I made clear that a science-based approach underpins climate action, and that our best science shows that the climate is changing, driven in large part by human action. However, I pointed out that the science-based approach is undermined when facts are taken out of context to justify extreme measures in the name of climate action.
https://public.wmo.int/en/media/news/statement-wmo-secretary-general-petteri-taalas
so thats a negative….well i do accept the IPCC rationale advocating 2 deg C as a likely tipping point to unrecoverable climate change that is outside our habitability…maybe a little less or more…and on that basis the statement that if the existing infrastructure burns FF forhe estimated lifespan of that infrastructure we will well exceed the carbon budget for 2 deg C is obviously right…so the statement in the article is accurate
I said read what the science says (not what you think i said)
2c is not a tipping point .That s your unscientific opinion of a mathematical statement ie it has a strict description (including grammar) no more no less,and of which your understanding would be say limited.
2 deg C (above pre industrial average) has been determined as a point where unrecoverable climate feedbacks will (with a high degree of probability) be triggered…with your superior understanding of scientific principle do you wish to dispute that is the position of the IPCC?
A tipping point is a bifurcation.back to back saddle node,and or Shilnikov in the case of the ENSO complex system with regime change due to negative feedbacks
http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Saddle-node_bifurcation
Large amplitude response to feedbacks appear only in linear systems and have significant constraints on prediction of complex systems. eg Zalipin and Ghil.
We revisit a recent claim that the Earth’s climate system is characterized by sensitive dependence to parameters; in particular, that the system exhibits an asymmetric,large-amplitude response to normally distributed feedback forcing. Such a response would imply irreducible uncertainty in climate change predictions and thus have notable implications for climate science and climate-related policy making. We show that equilibrium climate sensitivity in all generality does not support such an intrinsic indeterminacy; the latter appears only in essentially linear systems.The main flaw in the analysis that led to this claim is in-appropriate linearization of an intrinsically nonlinear model;there is no room for physical interpretations or policy conclusions based on this mathematical error.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1003.0253.pdf
You're planning on being cryogenically frozen…?
No, I'm going to upload my conciousness to a computer and come back as a Kelly Lebrock lookalike human hybrid like in the movie weird science…
"To judge from recent opinion polls, which show that a majority of Americans (many of them Republican) are pessimistic about the planet’s future, and from the success of a book like David Wallace-Wells’s harrowing “The Uninhabitable Earth,” which was released this year, I’m not alone in having reached this conclusion. But there continues to be a reluctance to broadcast it. Some climate activists argue that if we publicly admit that the problem can’t be solved, it will discourage people from taking any ameliorative action at all. This seems to me not only a patronizing calculation but an ineffectual one, given how little progress we have to show for it to date. The activists who make it remind me of the religious leaders who fear that, without the promise of eternal salvation, people won’t bother to behave well. In my experience, nonbelievers are no less loving of their neighbors than believers. And so I wonder what might happen if, instead of denying reality, we told ourselves the truth."
Could have written it myself….if I could write,
Good link
A stupid false binary from Frantzen.
We're all obligated to do our best to mitigate climate change – to whatever temperature our collective efforts merit.
He should stick to being a novelist – which is the one thing he’s good at.
I have just heard on the 8am news on RNZ that a victim who survived the mosque attack can only recieve 60 % of their income due to only having worked for some months. The man is married and has 4 children.
What I find to be unacceptable is that the family is having to wash their clothing by hand. Due to being on ACC the earner is not entitled to a Work and Income grant for a washing machine.
Who ever is managing the fund which was raised, has overlooked what practical/essential assistance a family requires.
Each time the family washes their clothing they should not be reminded of why there is no washing machine.
My mother did not have a washing machine until the 6th child was born in 1961. Her hands would have been swollen and sore.
Shame on whoever has deprived the family and immediate action is required to assist victims where there is a need.
No vacuum cleaner either.
Looking after the daily needs of these families is the least we can do as a nation. Disgusting.
What happened to the donated money?
It was never intended to make up for months of lost income. That's on how our govt have chosen to arrange matters.
It is the loss of income which is the reason there is no washing machine.
I did not say that any money raised was for the loss of income.
There is more on this story on RNZ just after 8.10 am. My power ran out, so I have not listened to it yet.
I would like to know what is on the list which the donations are permitted for.
If this family were refugees why was there no washing machine or vacuum.
My mother was an orphaned refugee and when she went out into the world at age 21 the NZ govt provided her with sufficient clothing, a job and accommodation she could afford. This was in 1950.
The man on ACC was here on a work permit, his wife and family were overseas (not sure when they came to NZ). All victims of the mosque attacks are eligible to get permanent residence. The man's application is not yet processed.
I though that a person could apply for both ACC and Work and Income assistance but one reduces the final amount as is cancelled $ for $. Also even though residence of 24 months is required I thought that is what an emergency benefit was for.
A W&I and ACC advocate needs to become involved.
Also he stepped from the ranks recently to say
Even if poor parenting is the reason kids are hungry at school, that's not the kid's fault.
I've come across plenty of people with punitive views towards the impoverished. But even they can't come up with a reason why kids should suffer the consequence of going hungry because of their parents' choices. (But they're really good at changing the subject when you ask why the kids should suffer)
Ensuring kids get at least one decent feed a day, five days a week, would give the kids suffering the biggest opportunity gaps a boost way out of proportion to the tiny cost involved. FFS, even most places in the US have worked out some way to ensure the worst-off kids get a free lunch at school.
Do you think this should be expanded because of school holidays? Children need decent nutrition 24/7, not just during school terms. In the US they can also get free (or bought) breakfast at school.
Absolutely expand it to 365 days, if anyone can figure out the politics of how to get there from where we are now. But while I reckon I could map out a politically workable path to feeding kids in schools, I've no idea how to swing a program that would feed them outside of school.
The US also has the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program (food stamps). Not sure how often recipients have to reapply, but it's certainly longer-term and more secure than our one-off food benefit that you have to use within 3 days of getting it.
The Cadogan boys are an interesting pair, brother Tim is mayor of Central Otago and an interesting character too. On the face of it a Nat (very strong National majority in area) but when you dig deeper quite left.
https://crux.org.nz/2019-local-body-elections/tim-cadogan/ (edit, link is a 10 minute video covering Tim’s local politics)
Shadbolt needs to roll a blunt and inhale for a bit.
There is nothing stopping the southern Licensing trusts from continuing to fund free places to their local polytech – so exactly what harm to Southland is he on about?
Shadbolt is an establishment synchophant now. I wouldnt be suprised if he is a member of the National Party. He has been parroting all their lines for over a decade now.
Mind you, all Trotskyists seem to take the same course.
He'll probably be denounced by National's Red (or is that Blue?) Guards and paraded through Balclutha's main street naked with a billboard round his neck.
The population centres are not as blue in the south as one might think (with some notable exceptions)
There's going to be a rearrangement of electorates in the South before the next election and things will change quite a bit due to the huge population growth in Queenstown Lakes and Central Otago. Quite on the cards that it could turn out to be not quite as blue as at present. Add in a couple of young incumbent MPs who seem to keep making fools of themselves by barking at every car that goes past, often missing the point completely, and it could be all on.
Who needs Bolton to start a war?
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1172971900664012802
Must be a delicate thing trying to time it right for the presidential election.
Republican diversity.
https://twitter.com/AdrienChorn_/status/1172539989030313984
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/elizabeth-heng-aoc-cambodia-khmer-rouge-new-voices.html
A local short story for your afternoon: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/09/07/785976/saturday-short-story-the-black-monk-by-charlotte-grimshaw
People having trouble with linking to TS comments, here's how to do it:
If you want to make it fancier, you can put some words in the Display Text box.
I had never even seen the link box. I had always just done the crude posting of the copied URL into the comment itself. It worked but it wasn't very pretty.
Hey now I can try and give much prettier links with text instead of just the URL. Never did master that before.
Thank you for the tip.
Jeeze alwyn, I can't believe it, I thought you knew everything, just like Hosking.
concise 🙂
I'm sorry to destroy one of your cherished beliefs.
Now I am really going to spoil your day.
There is no Santa Claus!
Hi weka
Followed your instructions but the same thing happened. When I submit, half the address line drops off. lprent is aware there is a glitch and will sort it when he gets the time. Only some of us appear to be affected.
Time, if I only had time…
Actually it is starting to look good. I have one more task at home, have no real required work at work. My slave master / student is heading away for weeks to the land of the deluded peasants (US), and I have almost a years complement of unused holiday time available.
However I also have a jury service notice – complete with a warning that is a trial in it for up to 5 weeks.
Liberals, Leninists and the Libertarians suck.
Here is why – 28 minutes – can do house work and listen. Elizabeth Anderson is Giant. Love her books, Private Government: How Employers Rule Our Lives (and Why We Don't Talk about It) . is fantastic and a must read for anyone interested in political economy.
Looks like Boris Johnson's tactics are working and Corbyn is even more ineffective.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/14/tories-extend-poll-lead-to-12-despite-week-of-political-chaos
Conservatives up 2%
Labour stays same.
Doesn't seem to match Gosman's point. Perhaps it was another poll?
A former president of the European Council has said he believes Brexit has changed EU attitudes to Scottish independence.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49690513
Amidst the nutso reporting of late, a real scandal affecting hundreds of Kiwi families goes unremarked
https://twitter.com/hamish_keith/status/1172637706276364288?s=20
Kia Ora Newshub.
You can't help yourself being rude talking over the top of Jacinda.
I don't think that it's fair on the people victim of the parliament scandal these peoples should not be used as a political FOOTBALL.
Our farmers do have a very low carbon footprint but they can lower there carbon footprint more they just have to focus on a lower carbon footprint and lower there water use to help save our environment we need to all work together to get to a carbon neutral society by 2050 not fight about it letting t the years roll by in that process making becoming carbon neutral by 2050 harder and harder you WE have to start now.
Ka pai Geovana Pères Aotearoa Wahine WBO Champion all the best it's great to see more of our Wahine Sports Stars being given the Star light kia kaha.
I agree with Mark on the Basket Ball.
I agree with Marie views about on the parliament staff issues.
Ka kite Ano
Ka pai to the Bubbles foiling sea taxi in France cool new tech coming from France.
I… It warms Eco Maori Ngaku to see finally that the majority of people can see OUR reality on human cause climate change. Even more when I see that our Rangatahi can see the big picture clearly through all the putea that is spent trying to deceive OUR Realities on Human Cause Climate change. Kia kaha Rangatahi of the Papatuanuku keep up the excellent MAHI. Championing positive action to minimise climate change and become carbon neutral ASAP
Americans are waking up': two thirds say climate crisis must be addressed
Major CBS News poll released as part of Covering Climate Now, a collaboration of more than 250 news outlets around the world to strengthen coverage of the climate story
Young people have been galvanized by climate science being taught in schools as well as a spreading global activist movement spearheaded by Greta Thunberg, the Swedish teenager who started a wave of school walkouts to demand action. Thunberg recently arrived in the US on a solar-powered yacht, ahead of a major United Nations climate summit in New York on 23 September.
This generational divide even cuts across party affiliation, with two-thirds of Republican voters aged under 45 considering it their duty to address the climate crisis, according to the CBS poll. Just 38% of Republicans aged over 45 feel the same.
“Younger Republicans are much more convinced climate change is a crisis and are supportive of action than older Republicans – which has big implications for the future of the party,” said Leiserowitz.
Around three-quarters of all respondents said they understand that climate change is melting the Arctic, raising sea levels and causing warmer summers. A further two-thirds accept that hurricanes will be made more severe by global heating. Hurricane Dorian, which recently devastated parts of the Bahamas, made 38% of Americans more concerned about the climate crisis, with 56% unswayed.
Leiserowitz said that the relationship between extreme weather events and concern over climate change is a complex one, with people already worried the most likely to say that their alarm has increased when a major storm or flood hits.
Regardless of concern over climate change there appears to be skepticism among Americans about how much humans can do about it. Just 19% said humans can stop rising temperatures and the associated impacts, with nearly half thinking it possible to slow but not stop the changes and 23% refusing to believe humans can do anything at all.
This may well influence the views of leading presidential contenders’ climate plans. Democratic hopeful Bernie Sanders, for example, has proposed a rapid remodeling of society where planet-warming emissions from transport and power generation are eradicated within just 11 years
Ka kite Ano link below below.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/sep/15/americans-climate-change-crisis-cbs-poll
Kia Ora Newshub.
Kia Pai Winston Peters is back Kia Kaha.
That's great the Japan Rugby World Cup is looking like a big secess that is good for the Game.
Still a lot of questions around that digger hitting the Auckland Airport fuel pipe.
Arsonists burning anything is boggling burning our tamariki schools is even worse idiots
Kia kaha to all the Tangata picking up the plastic waste from Tangaroa and our Awa we will change to a society that use minimal resources in everyday life.
Ka kite Ano.
Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.
That's is correct Maori and Pacific tamariki will be discriminated against the most in Schools. That has to stop.
Ngāti Kahu do not want a ship like Captain Cook landing in their harbor to celebrate Cooks arrival to Aotearoa Ka pai
I agree its not on that a social worker gave up the address were a destressed Wahine and tamariki to a out of control man who could do some dumb stuff.
Condolences to the Mullins Whanau for the loss have lost their Father.
I… we have to come up with new systems to minimise our usage taonga resources and minimise our waste by making a close loop system.
Eco Maori always likes listening to our great Kau matua stories and views on the Present kia kaha
To. Much Dug Clark teaching people vehicle mantince and serviceing fixing peoples cars just for the price of the parts in Kaitaia great skills to have
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora The Am Show.
That's awesome our Taonga Te Kakapo indangered native parrot population has increased to 213 birds this year great mahi.
Its good to see you are concerned about human cause climate change.
Eco Maori sort of knows how some people feel when every conclusion I voice gets spun out to the Matariki.
Its great that Facebook is making changes to stop online extremists haters from using their platforms Ka pai don't give them any oxygen.
Its excellent to see Gull is moving into the South Island that will force the others to lower prices and save our consumers costs considerably kia Ora.
That's the way Customs is stopping more PEE like drugs from getting on New Zealand Street and ultimately destroying people lives.
He waimare etahi taangata He tangata taangata ahu.
Yes Te Kakapu native fish are rear with our degraded Wai quality in our Awa times are changing we are now going to treat our Taonga Wai with the respect it deserves.
Ka pai to Lisa for your massive feat swimming hundreds of miles for your cause Mana Wahine.
Ka kite Ano
We must all make changes to the way we live now as the sooner we act the easier it will be to minimise global warming. The longer we wait the harder it will be to get to a carbon-free society its not ROCKET SCIENCE its logical.
Greta Thunberg to Congress: ‘You’re not trying hard enough. Sorry’
The Swedish environmentalist was one of several who spoke at a Senate climate crisis task force.
At a meeting of the Senate climate crisis task force on Tuesday, lawmakers praised a group of young activists for their leadership, their gumption and their display of wisdom far beyond their years. They then asked the teens for advice on how Congress might combat one of the most urgent and politically contentious threats confronting world leaders: climate change.
Greta Thunberg, the 16-year-old Swedish activist who has galvanized young people across the world to strike for more action to combat the impact of global warming, politely reminded them that she was a student, not a scientist – or a senator.
“Please save your praise. We don’t want it,” she said. “Don’t invite us here to just tell us how inspiring we are without actually doing anything about it because it doesn’t lead to anything.
The Green New Deal is an ambitious 14-page resolution that calls for a “10-year national mobilization” that would eliminate the nation’s emissions in one decade. Scientists say limiting warming to 1.5C would require cutting manmade carbon levels by 45% by 2030 and reaching net zero around 2050.
Markey said their movement is shifting the political landscape. The senator pointed to the 2020 presidential debates as evidence of what has changed. Candidates are being asked about climate change and pushed to introduce plans to combat global warming. This is in stark contrast to 2016.
“What has happened? You have happened,” he told the activists. “You are giving this extra level of energy to the political process that is absolutely changing the dynamics of politics in the United States Ka kite Ano link below.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/17/greta-thunberg-to-congress-youre-not-trying-hard-enough-sorry
Typical of some business people say one thing in the public EYE and in the board rooms do the opposite what do we call them Lies. If they don't get on the climate mitigation waka they will lose their shoulders CASH. What a lot of business people haven't figured out is clean tech or anything that makes products with low or no carbon footprint is going to be the NEXT GOLD Rush. All the natural materials produced with low or no carbon will have a higher value .
Wall Street investment giants voting against key climate resolutions
Asset management companies BlackRock Inc and Vanguard have failed to live up to pledge to support climate action at energy firms
Some of Wall Street’s largest asset management companies are failing to live up to commitments to use their voting power to fight the climate crisis, according to a new report.
The report, published on Tuesday by the Washington DC-based Majority Action and the Climate Majority Project, claims that BlackRock Inc, the world’s largest asset manager with more than $6tn under management, and Vanguard, with assets of $5.2tn, have voted overwhelmingly against the key climate resolutions at energy companies, including a resolution at ExxonMobil’s annual shareholder meeting, and at Duke Energy.
Had BlackRock and Vanguard not torpedoed these investor efforts, at least 16 climate-critical shareholder resolutions at S&P 500 companies would have received majority support in 2019, representing a significant corporate shift on climate, the report claims.
Refusing to use their proxy votes to support shareholders’ resolutions means letting companies off the hook – even as the climate crisis threatens their investors, their business models and the planet, the group says.
“The climate crisis is well upon us, and leading investors are stepping up to press fossil-fuel-dependent companies to align their strategies to the goals of the Paris agreement but some of the largest US investment companies are severely lagging,” said Majority Action’s Eli Kasargod-Staub.
Majority Action, which delivered a petition of 129,000 petition signatures to Blackrock in April, claims it ranks at the bottom of the list of fund managers using their voting powers to force companies to act responsibly on climate.
Nicholas Eisenberger at the advisory firm Pure Energy Partners said he was encouraged by the growing awareness of the urgency of the climate crisis in the business sector.
“Large asset managers are just at the beginning of taking the urgent actions required to more aggressively confront the threat of climate change,” he said, describing them as battleships at the start of an emergency corrective turn.
“We seen a fundamental shift in the last two years in the understanding of the dangers climate change presents but the steps we’ve taken are nowhere near adequate to the task yet
Ka kite Ano link below.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/17/wall-street-asset-management-climate-change-blackrock-vanguard
Kia Ora Newshub.
Its excellent that Amazon is going to make The Lord Of The Rings TV series in Aotearoa we have A Beautiful Contry and the most environmental way to shear Aotearoa to the Papatuanuku is with Films and TV series.
Brain fart lol
Cool find in North Canterbury a tooth bird 62 million years old birds are beautiful creatures. Aotearoa Te Whenua of ancient birds.
Let's hope not to many Pilot whales get stranded in Te Tai tokorau. Pilot Whales have huge brains and bond with each other quite closely.
Reduce emissions /becoming carbon neutral is definitely great for everyone every living thing.
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.
Te Maori King has made the correct call Ka pai
Pilot Whale stranding it cool that heaps of tangata working together to try and save the stranded awesome.
Its sad that tangata whenua of Whangarei is being cut out of there Taonga Wai
Its great that Tangata whenua tourists operator's are chasing more revenue from entertaing our guests. It would be great to see more of our guests experiencing the best place in Aotearoa Te Tairawhiti best hunting fishing first whenua to see Te Ra in Eco Maori view
Isac great innovation finding a valuable oil from industrial hemp teno pai.
Turangi sing to give up smoking anyway you can give the stuff up is cool.
Ka kite Ano