Open Mike 15/12/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 15th, 2017 - 131 comments
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131 comments on “Open Mike 15/12/2017”

  1. Rosemary McDonald 1

    Karl Du Frense positioning himself as the defender of free speech and balanced Public Broadcasting with this tacky little piece in which he pins his colours to the mast.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/99845282/dinosaur-v-dominatrix-don-brash-didnt-stand-a-chance

    He was obviously disturbed by the public eviscerating of that stalwart of Free Speech Don Brash, by Kim Hill on Natrad a couple of weeks ago.

    Du Frense say’s

    Here’s where we get down to the real issue. RNZ is a public institution. It belongs to us.

    The public who fund the organisation are entitled to criticise it. But can we now expect that anyone who has the temerity to do so will be subjected to a mauling by RNZ’s in-house attack dog? Or is this treatment reserved for despised white conservative males such as Brash, to make an example of them and deter others from similar foolishness?

    Either way, Hill’s dismemberment of Brash was a brazen abuse of the state broadcaster’s power and showed contemptuous disregard for RNZ’s charter obligation to be impartial and balanced.

    This is nothing new, of course. The quaint notion that RNZ exists for all New Zealanders was quietly jettisoned years ago. Without any mandate, the state broadcaster has refashioned itself as a platform for the promotion of favoured causes.

    You’re more likely to see an aardvark riding a bike down The Terrace than to hear a conservative voice, or even a middle-of-the-road one, on smug groupthink fests such as RNZ’s current series of Smart Talk.”

    Whew!

    The lad sounds a little peeved.

    Calling Kim Hill a ‘dominatrix’ and an ‘attack dog’….absolutely no class at all there Karl.

    • JanM 1.1

      Another right wing apologist having a tantrum – such fun!
      And that horrible little man from 7 Sharp is going going gone – wow! Do you think Australia would like him?

    • OnceWasTim 1.2

      “Calling Kim Hill a ‘dominatrix’ and an ‘attack dog’”
      Kind of rich coming from someone who’s rather like a Dr Who 1960s Dalek screaming ‘exterminate, exterminate, assimilate, assimilate’

    • SpaceMonkey 1.3

      How can he say that when her co-host is Guyon Espiner?

    • cleangreen 1.4

      Yes Rosemary
      This mornings episode of Kim Hill Vs Blustering Steven Joyce was very reminesent of when David parker was over-burdened by discussion with Joyce during the lead up to the 2014 election; – when Steven joyce was barrelling over top of the meek David Parker in discussion about ‘finance’ as it was equally as arrogant a performance from Joyce three years ago.

      This festive season Steven Joyce is likened to the mean arsed ‘Grinch’

      “Leopards dont change their spots’.

    • patricia bremner 1.5

      Rosemary, Karl Du Frense is another poor loser, bitter that the left have platforms of power and are using them.

      I did not see him asking for fairness every time Joyce or Boag got up to complain about the left.

      He is full of it, and Kim Hill does her job, and does not tolerate self aggrandizing idiots like Brash.

      Du Frense says “What made him do that?” “Ego” he suggests. Got it in one, Brash doesn’t think he has any problems, and when called out on them blames others.

      We are going to get a stream of complaints about Left influence. I might pay attention, had they been more even handed in the past.

      • Rosemary McDonald 1.5.1

        Hiya pat.

        Yes, its going to be all on over the next few years.

        Paradoxically, Farrar’s Ferals are also not happy with the mainstream media and Natrad in particular.

        For sometime they have complained bitterly that presenters on Natrad are biased towards the left…and this includes Espiner, who many here perceive as tending right.

        My hope is that if none of us are happy with the MSM…this might just indicate that they are landing somewhere in the middle.

    • Cinny 1.6

      Lmao, some men cannot deal with strong, educated women, so they resort to name calling. Interestingly by calling Kim a dominatrix karl is admitting his submission. Or is he volunteering brashes?

      So many chickens are coming home to roost and it’s beautiful to watch.

    • AB 1.7

      Only one lesson here – if you are going up against Hill don’t be an ignorant, illogical nitwit. And outside a very narrow set of economic theories, Brash is exactly that.

      • Macro 1.7.1

        And you have to be an ignorant, illogical, nitwit to have any truck with those narrow set of economic theories of which Brash is an “expert”

    • Morrissey 1.8

      This is not the first time that Kim Hill has provoked Karl Du Fresne into a state of apoplexy. In 2010 the old curmudgeon went into core meltdown after Hill had dared to ask a few challenging questions of the former Australian prime minister John Howard. On that occasion he damned Hill not for being a dominatrix, but for being “relentlessly adversarial”. He also damned her listeners as “chardonnay socialists”…..

      http://karldufresne.blogspot.co.nz/2010/11/howard-deserved-more-balanced-treatment.html

    • tracey 1.9

      Another who regards equality as a form of oppression… and Hosking gone too… the privileged male feels under attack today as everything isnt as they are used to it… sharing takes some getting used to.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    “…Either way, Hill’s dismemberment of Brash was a brazen abuse of the state broadcaster’s power and showed contemptuous disregard for RNZ’s charter obligation to be impartial and balanced…”

    Actually the RNZ charter says in section 5:
    (i) provide comprehensive, independent, accurate, impartial, and balanced regional, national, and international news and current affairs…

    Kim Hill’s Saturday morning show isn’t news or current affairs. It is a magazine show driven by it’s host. Du Fresne is an idiot who appears to have not actually read the RNZ charter.

    • mpledger 2.1

      Kim Hill allowed Don Brash to have his point of view put forth. He wasn’t an expert in the area – on this topic he was as expert as any random person on the street. And a random person on the street doesn’t get so much airtime to put their point of view across.

      Kim Hill basically just quoted things he had said in the past. If that made him look foolish then he shouldn’t have said such silly things.

      • tracey 2.1.1

        Well observed. It is one thing to be heard that doesnt mean a platform to bully your world view. Hill ought to be congratulated not vilified.

    • cleangreen 2.2

      Thanks awfully Sanctuary;

      For that interesting wording from the RNZ Charter section 5.
      (i) provide comprehensive, independent, accurate, impartial, and balanced regional, national, and international news and current affairs…

      We have lost our HB/Gisborne regional voice here since 2013 and are still waiting for our
      (i) provide comprehensive, independent, accurate, impartial, and balanced regional, national, and international news and current affairs…

      We in HB/Gisborne had apparently had Steven Joyce take away our regional reporter from RNZ two years ago!!!!!

      We enquired with the RNZ CEO on 9th September 2017 under OIA why we lost our reporter and we still dont have one yet, and here is what we got back on 13/10/17.

      NOTE; To date as of yesterday 14/12/17 we still have no RNZ reporter to cover HB/Gisborne, so the new Broadcasting Minister Claire Curran has now recieved a letter of complaint from us to provide us with a reporter ASAP.

      Attached is a letter we received 20/10/17 after sending Radio NZ 9/9/17 in a OIA request as to why we in HB no longer have a Radio NZ reporter since 2016.

      The date of our request was sent quite a time before the election 9/9/17 and came to us just days before the election.

      Since then we have sent several letters to the new Broadcasting Minister Claire Curran for assistance to get another local reporter and to date no new reporter has been hired.

      Yesterday we called Radio NZ to enquire when we are to get a reporter and the person I was sent through to was a lady named “ Paloma” who said still “no reporter has been found yet”!!!!!!! This is now late december 15/12/17.

      Quote George Bignell – 13/10/27
      “The Hawkes Bay regional reporting position is currently vacant and Radio New Zealand will look to fill that position in the near future.

      We trust this of assistance to you.” End.

      See the letter below from this person inside the old style RNZ while then under National Government control.

      SEE BELOW our Letter sent to Radio NZ PA 8/9/17.

      So from the 20th October 2017 till now 14th December 2017, (over eight weeks later) no replacement report as been found yet??????
      URGENT
      Official Information request
      RADIO NZ.
      CEO PAUL THOMPSON
      9th September 2017.
      Official Information request

      HB Advocacy centre made this Official Information request to PAUL THOMPSON – RADIO NZ CEO For information 9th September 2017 for quick response please.
      9th September 2017.

      Dear Paul.

      We are a senior NGO working within the Government & local regional authorities on issues that have been presented to our Environmental Centre for 16 yrs to date.

      We have had a close communication relationship in the past particularly during the years 2009 to 2013 with your Radio NZ reporters but we now have virtually no response from your regional news, transport, environment, and rural reporters since then and I have been requested to enquire how the regional reporting structure of the Radio NZ broadcasting services now are different to the way the operations serviced the regions formerly.

      We would want you to supply any detailed changes that may have affected our loss of regional reporting services how affected our ability to have press coverage of our community issues regarding the above subjects of Transport and transport relationships to community health and wellbeing please, and we ask that under the Official Information Act please from this date 9/9/17 please arrange information to be provided as soon as able please. If you

      If you wish to refer this issue of ‘several communication’ also to the Minister handling the ‘Broadcasting portfolio’ who is Hon’ Maggie Barry please feel free to converse with the minister as you prepare our information request. The Minister had increased funding to Radio NZ recently we are told.

      We have supplied you with a copy of yesterday’s letter that we sent from our Centre to your office & is attached (below) for your reference.

      Regards.
      ——————————————————————————————————

      letter from RNZ

      October 13, 2017

      Dear —–

      I write in response to your request “how the regional reporting structure of the Radio NZ broadcasting services now are different to the way the operations serviced the regions formerly.”

      I can advise that RNZ does not hold any specific information in this regard that we can supply to you. To answer your question, apart from the relocation of one reporting position from our Queenstown office to our Dunedin office, there has been no recent changes to our regional reporting structure.

      The Hawkes Bay regional reporting position is currently vacant and Radio New Zealand will look to fill that position in the near future.

      We trust this of assistance to you.

      Yours sincerely

      George Bignell
      OIA Inquiries Coordinator

    • SPC 2.3

      Yup, Mr Magoo is simply expressing his own fear of (progressive) women in power.

      Like many on the right he wants to remove “public” platforms for those who support a more progressive New Zealand, while strangely silent on the role of the “unchallenging to the conservative regime” Hosking at TVNZ.

      One almost suspects the idea of Barry and Campbell on Seven Sharp was floated to wind him up.

    • tracey 2.4

      Du Fresne must hate listening to Hosking then. You know with TVNZ being public… I guess it is why the TVNZ Charter had to go… so Hosking could have

      ” contemptuous disregard for RNZ’s charter obligation to be impartial and balanced “

  3. alwyn 3

    Thank goodness.
    Grant Robertson has had some sense pushed into him regarding the National Super recipients having to apply for the grant for “winter heating”.
    It will apparently be paid out automatically and there will be no need for people to go into WINZ and apply for it. Complaints about the stupidity of his demand seem to have finally got through to him.
    Some common sense has been shown. Amazing.

    • dv 3.1

      Must be listening to you Alwyn!!!

      • cleangreen 3.1.1

        dv well said. 100%

        We worry about anyone listening to Alwyn thinks they are getting the acurate true facts as he is a ‘cherry picker’, and an apologist for the trucking industry, and hence supports dirty environmental policies.

        http://www.noted.co.nz/money/the-great-rail-revival-why-its-time-to-get-rail-back-on-track/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=LISTENER_newsletter_14-12-2017&utm_term=list_nzlistener_newsletter

        • marty mars 3.1.1.1

          plus he is confused about his love/hate relationship with trains – not so much a trainspotter, more a trainsnotter.

        • alwyn 3.1.1.2

          Having read the items you link to, and looking at his occupation, I can hear the immortal words of Mandy Rice-Davies.
          Anyone who has been the union leader for Rail Workers will of course qualify for her comment about Lord Astor.
          “Well he would say that wouldn’t he?”

          I still think they only have very limited reason for existing in New Zealand.
          Is it really worth spending half a billion dollars on getting the Auckland/Northland line to a minimum standard and putting a spur line into Marsden Point for a maximum of a short train each day?
          Improving the roads makes much more sense.

          The statistics quoted in the Listener article are also misleading.
          A statement such as “Whereas the rail network carries 16% of freight (by tonne-kilometres), it generates only 0.2% of national emissions” is simply a ridiculous comparison. It is intended to pretend that our overall emissions would be greatly reduced if we used trains more.

          I could make an equally misleading, and equally silly statement such as.
          “Less than 0.01% of passengers from Wellington to Auckland travel by rail and yet the rail network generates 0.2% of our national emissions”.
          There, that implies that trains are terribly inefficient doesn’t it
          I have no idea what the actual number is but this could be about the correct one. There are tourist trains a couple of times a week for at least part of the year so I suppose they might carry a single Airbus 320 load of passengers each week for the whole distance.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.2.1

            Improving the roads makes much more sense.

            Half a billion for trains, several billion for roads.

            Yeah, much more sense to do the trains.

            It is intended to pretend that our overall emissions would be greatly reduced if we used trains more.

            That’s not a pretence. If we used trains more our emissions would fall quite drastically. Would use far less resources as well and thus be a hell of a lot cheaper.

            I have no idea what the actual number is…

            And that’s the only thing you said that actually truthful. Finally admitting that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

            • alwyn 3.1.1.2.1.1

              You did note that the half billion for trains is ONLY for the line from Auckland to Marsden Point.
              God knows how may billion the puff-puff lovers want in total.
              National put around $3 billion I think into rail between 2009 and 2017 and committed about a further $1.5 billion into the Auckland link.

              “And that’s the only thing you said that actually truthful”.
              Don’t be so bloody stupid. You are just unhappy that I can demonstrate that many of the comments made about the wonders of rail are ridiculous and founded only in fantasy.
              What exactly have I said that is false. Facts please, not just an eruption of bile.

              • You did note that the half billion for trains is ONLY for the line from Auckland to Marsden Point.

                And the road is billions of dollars for the same stretch. We know this from National’s RoNs:

                Steven Joyce has announced plans for a motorway from Puhoi to Wellsford at a cost of $2 billion

                And it won’t have anywhere near the economies of rail.

                You are just unhappy that I can demonstrate that many of the comments made about the wonders of rail are ridiculous and founded only in fantasy.

                You’ve never done that. You’ve done a lot of talking out your arse about it though.

                What exactly have I said that is false. Facts please, not just an eruption of bile.

                A statement such as “Whereas the rail network carries 16% of freight (by tonne-kilometres), it generates only 0.2% of national emissions” is simply a ridiculous comparison.

                You missed the context and thus produced a lie:

                At the same time as the funding hurdle was lowered for big highway projects, the Land Transport Management Act – the sector’s guiding legislation – was amended in 2013 to remove the explicit requirement for sustainability to be considered.

                Rail advocates say these changes have effectively served as a subsidy for the trucking industry and added to the difficulties KiwiRail faces in competing for freight business even in the context of rising concern about climate change and an increasing awareness of the potential role of rail in reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

                Whereas the rail network carries 16% of freight (by tonne-kilometres), it generates only 0.2% of national emissions. In a 2016 report, the Royal Society of New Zealand noted that a tonne of freight moved by diesel-powered rail produces a third of the emissions the same tonnage going by truck would yield. It identified shifting more freight from road to rail or coastal shipping as a major opportunity for carbon dioxide reduction.

                And you even followed it up by saying that you were talking out your arse.

                • I’ll add this to the context as well:

                  The problem for KiwiRail is that none of the virtues identified and costed by EY generate an extra cent in revenue for its business, either from its customers or through Government support. At the same time, unlike trucking companies, it’s responsible for owning, maintaining and upgrading its own “road” – the core infrastructure of tracks, bridges and tunnels. As a state-owned enterprise, it is expected to make a commercial return on assets, which it has proved year after year that it is unable to do.

                  my bold

                  Trucking companies and even cars get massive cross subsidisation that rail doesn’t get and so it looks a lot better on the accounts. When that cross subsidisation is properly accounted for rail looks a hell of a lot better.

    • Ad 3.2

      It’s better than amazing Alwyn.
      Its a huge social shift for good in New Zealand.

      • alwyn 3.2.1

        “Its a huge social shift for good in New Zealand”
        Do you mean that he has apparently had second thoughts about making everyone apply or do you mean the money itself?

        If the first I would agree. This must be the first time in decades that a Labour Government has altered something they have announced, and in effect admitted they got it wrong.
        On the other hand the amount of money is precisely $10/year more than National were going to provide to couples with the tax cuts that were going to happen on April 1 and which Labour and its hangers-on are cancelling. Would you call that $10/year a “huge social shift”?

        • Ad 3.2.1.1

          I would call lifting about 1 million New Zealanders up with straight cash a “huge social shift”.

          You can use your $450 to keep doing jobs around the house.

          National just got outflanked and have no answer.

    • tracey 3.3

      I wonder why the people who dont need it as Seymour says dont just give it back or contact authorities to be excluded?

  4. eco maori 4

    Good program this morning breakfast people many thanks to you.

    You Lady’s are very good netures but you are so busy looking after everyone else you forget to take care of yourself my wife did this my sister my daughters well I ring them up and insist they go to the doctor when they tell me about there ailments . I tell there health is the most important as they have the care of there family in there hands an no one will care for the children like they do.
    The wait time to get into a doctor in South Waikato is ridiculous especially for a wealth country. O that’s right we have Shonky bullshiet dilldow to thank for this slide back wards in all OUR State services the likes of these people will not be allowed back in OUR government how can they lift there heads with all the bad shit they have done to OUR country this is what you get when you have people who worship money over humanity and mother earth. Many thanks to Mark Zuckerberg founder of Facebook for seeing the big picture that’s is that all the people of OUR WORLD SOCIETY HAVE A Obligation to help all the vanurable people in our world. I hope all the Big Tech companies in our world will pay Taxes in the country’s that they draw there revenue from as this is the humane thing to do Ka pai

    • tracey 4.1

      Good advice. We need to remibd the women in our lives that they can only be for others what they want to be if they stay fit and healthy and happy.

  5. Muttonbird 5

    Hosking was first to blink in the battle of the relentlessly positive. He found now that JA is the boss he couldn’t keep up his smug schtick any longer. So like all quitters, he quit.

  6. Bill 6

    Doesn’t Shaw release the climate and sea level thing today – on a day when it’s almost guaranteed to be eclipsed by this general nodding approval of a budget?

  7. patricia bremner 7

    Rosemary, Karl Du Frense is another poor loser, bitter that the left have platforms of power and are using them.

    I did not see him asking for fairness every time Joyce or Boag got up to complain about the left.

    He is full of it, and Kim Hill does her job, and does not tolerate self aggrandizing idiots like Brash.

    Du Frense says “What made him do that?” “Ego” he suggests. Got it in one, Brash doesn’t think he has any problems, and when called out on them blames others.

    We are going to get a stream of complaints about Left influence. I might pay attention, had they been more even handed in the past.

  8. eco maori 8

    Many thanks to the Rock morning rumble team see hear you in the new year. PS found a present from my neo liberal neighbour a dead bird on my truck this is the mind set of these cares of OUR society Ana to kai

  9. Bill 9

    When instrumentation designed to “trip out” in the case of a malfunction, “trips out” because the extent of warming it’s measuring is read as a malfunction… 🙁

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/arctic-global-warming-rapid-computer-rejected-alaska-a8110941.html

  10. John 10

    Ding dong Hoskings gone

    • AB 10.1

      Yep – circling the wagons, retreating to the fortress of private radio to commiserate with like-minded souls and snipe from a position of safety.

    • cleangreen 10.2

      Oh yes make it so; – sack Mike Hoskings.

      As he sits already on the ‘can’t do’ grump mantle with Alwyn, James, and the National clingons.

      And we hopefully all will gravitate to the “fortress of private radio to commiserate with like-minded souls and snipe from a position of safety.”

      • alwyn 10.2.1

        What have I ever done to upset you so much?
        Apart from pointing out the flaws when you publish silly ideas I really don’t take any notice of you.

        Just relax, read what I say and , as the Bible says in John 8:32
        “Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set free you.”

        • North 10.2.1.1

          Oh God…….Alwyn lecturing us from his Alabama Bible.

          • alwyn 10.2.1.1.1

            “Alabama Bible”?
            What is the connection?

          • marty mars 10.2.1.1.2

            Yep alwyn know everything about nothing thus the worm turns.

            • alwyn 10.2.1.1.2.1

              Well, Given that neither you nor “North” can tell me any connection I can only assume that you have screwed the pooch and got your story messed up.
              The only “Alabama Bible” I have ever heard of is the Alabama State Bible in Montgomery Alabama. It was the one used to swear in Jefferson Davis as President.
              However the verse I quoted isn’t in that bible.
              It has, instead
              “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”.
              Well I guess you didn’t get it right and you are too embarrassed to admit it.
              About par for the course for you.

  11. garibaldi 11

    Yet another neolib Labour govt doing nothing for the poor. Shame on them.

  12. David Mac 12

    Visualise a hat. 195 pieces of paper within, each one bearing the name of a country around the globe. We get to close our eyes and reach in, the country we get, that’s where we’re moving to.

    I’d turn down the opportunity to play. For me it would be like playing Russian Roulette with an automatic weapon and about 4 bullets missing from it’s 195 bullet magazine. For me, this new policy just put another bullet in the mag.

    Regardless of the circumstances, whether flush or on the bones of my arse, I’ve always found that the most influential person when it comes to influencing outcomes in my life has been me. I don’t see that changing anytime soon. I fear I would die waiting for any government to take me by the hand and lead me to a life of contentment.

    • Barfly 12.1

      ” For me, this new policy just put another bullet in the mag.”

      I presume that related to the crux of your post but refers to nothing.

      My crystal ball is on the fritz. What are you talking about?

      • David Mac 12.1.1

        I’m talking about the people that are not happy about life in NZ but given an opportunity to change would still walk past 194 countries to live here.

        • McFlock 12.1.1.1

          Especially now we have a decent government. NZ was sliding down too many rankings for a while there.

          • David Mac 12.1.1.1.1

            Yes, we’re not going to get things sorted out in 100 days. It will be a generation before we are an international poster child of The Fair Go. Favourable trend-lines and moving up credible world rankings are the things to look for, housing, health, education, incomes. The mechanical bits that get more of us pushing on towards our personal variations of lives well led.

            • McFlock 12.1.1.1.1.1

              Really a generation? The nats managed to fuck it up quite a bit in only nine years.

              But really, tell us more about how you are the master of your own destiny, when apparently you’re lucky enough to live in the best country in the world.

              • David Mac

                9 years, Left/Right, Holden/Ford, South Island/North Island

                In our hearts we’re all chasing the same things, we all have similar core values. We want to be noticed and appreciated. We want to give love and be loved. We all aspire to being crucial cogs in loving families, neighbourhoods, towns, nation.

                Ford, Holden, National, Labour, I think they have little to do with addressing our core aspirations.

                I think what we should be asking from our government is a fairly marked out playing field. A ‘stickler for the rules’ referee and a comfy place to sit for those that can’t play.

                • McFlock

                  If they were irrelevant, a change in government wouldn’t coincidentally be followed by a change in educational attainment, a change in homelessness, a change in poverty levels, etc etc etc. I guess in the early 1990s hundreds of thousands of people just decided to be poor for a while.

                  • David Mac

                    Oh we’re certainly positioned to create a NZ that treats more of us better.

                    A government that places people and the planet near the top of most agendum are much better placed to create a NZ that suits more of us.

                    The best we can hope for from them is that they are a brilliant band, for it to be an ace party 4.5 million of us need to dance.

                    I have a choice, I can say ‘McFlock you’re fulla shite.” Or I could tell the truth “McFlock I think you make a valuable contribution to this blog and it would be a less interesting place if you chose to stop.”

                    Making NZ a better place is down to you and me.

                    • Incognito

                      Making NZ a better place is down to you and me.

                      QFT

                      Your comments here today make (a lot of) sense (to me) as long as we realise that no man is an island and that we cannot make the necessary change all by ourselves but that we need to work together and help one and another: “united we stand, divided we fall”.

                    • McFlock

                      Which is all well and good, but still doesn’t acknowledge the massive role that sheer luck has played in your (and my) life.

                      The country we are in, the government of the day, the chaotic results of decisions of billions of people creating or eliminating opportunities… the privileges we have oblige us to try to make life better for those less fortunate, not just look to ourselves and assume that we played the bulk of the role that led us to our position.

                    • One Two []

                      ‘Sheer luck’

                      You, nor any of us know how that plays out…

                      That’s what you chosen to attribute life as being based from it seems..

                      It’s possible that ‘luck’ is the all it is..

                      But luck is a human label..they all are..

                      Therefore the human ascribed ‘Luck’ has nothing to do with anything outside of events in this life…if that

                    • McFlock

                      “Labels” require denotation for to have meaning.

                      The origin of the label is not the origin of the thing being denoted.

                      Therefore your comment is confused and delusional.

                      But that was already highly likely, because it was prefaced by the label “One Two”.

                    • One Two []

                      ‘Sheer luck’

                      ‘Require detonation to have meaning’

                      ‘Confused and delusional’

                      Have you considered other possibilities, or did you stop at, ‘sheer luck’?

                    • David Mac

                      We’ve run out of reply clickables

                      Hi incognito, you’re good at making me think ‘Hmmm I hadn’t thought of that.’ I like you. Because your ‘hmmm I hadn’t thought of that’ is as often highlighting a positive as it is a negative.

                      You and me bro. We’ve got this.

                      McFlock, this sheer luck thing of yours, I can’t swallow it.

                      If I shoot the breeze in here for a week, my income slips away. If I apply myself, make a few calls, hustle, my income bumps up. This is the case over and over. Ain’t luck mate, it’s me getting stuck in or cruising.

                    • McFlock

                      Really?

                      You never had a happy coincidence in your life, where someone turns out to be willing and able to help you? Never had a seemingly insignificant choice of two roads “much the same” turn out to be life changing? Never met the love of your life by chance? Never had an inspiring teacher who retired shortly after your final year in school? Never had a completely unexpected opportunity fall in your lap? Never look back on your teenage love and breathe a sigh of relief that you never had a baby with them, despite foolish teenage choices? Shame.

                      On the flipside, most of my life has been good luck. I don’t hustle. I’m just really lucky. Papers I took randomly at university turned out to be the foundation of my second career a decade later. Whenever my life becomes inconvenienced by need for something, someone always seems to have a suitable substitute in the interim (I’m currently commenting on a surplus-to-requirements linux box with DDR2 ram, until I get funds for a gaming machine). I work 30 hours a week, and that provides me enough for a reasonable existence. I’m lucky my colleagues put up with me. I’m lucky I’m an amiable drunk. I’m lucky I recognised early that I’m prone to addiction, so avoided anything too bad in the way of drugs. I’m lucky I took so long to get my drivers license, otherwise winz would have put me into shiftwork I’d be stuck in to this day – too tired to do job interviews and all my daywalker skills evaporated. Seen it happen to others.

                      Sure, I could pretend I navigated the course to this life of comfort, but mostly I just went with the flow.

                      Whereas most people work or hustle most of their lives. Especially those on lower wages, because they don’t get the option not to. The cleaner at my workplace hustles every night, and probably works longer hours than I do for less. He deserves my luck, but he has bad luck.Never complains, but shit happens.

                      So you go out and hustle. Ain’t you lucky that your hustle is so much more rewarding than mike the cleaner’s.

    • tracey 12.2

      See how you go being raped when you are a child, or starved, or your CV discarded cos of your surname… yes you are influential in your life but to have lived without the invisible barriers of systems designed for one section of society makes you privileged indeed.

      • David Mac 12.2.1

        The opportunity for me to get over being raped as a child and lead a quality life in spite of my harrowing experience would ultimately be down to me. Starved as a child? I think the best thing I could do would be to get myself into a position to help see that other children aren’t starving, that’s down to me. If my CV was not getting past the initial screening. Changing that is down to me. Yesterday I was Davinda, today I am David.

        I hear you Tracey but regardless of the privilege some may soak up, the best way to clear the hurdles is not to rely on Susan Devoy’s intervention, it’s down to me.

        • David Mac 12.2.1.1

          If I was Davinda and the job application required a photo I’d lie. I’d look at the ‘Our Team’ on their websites. I’d steal an online photo of what I thought the company’s perfect applicant would look like and send that in with my CV.

          Then I’d spend some time rehearsing what I would say at the beginning of my interview and ways of handling a variety of outcomes.

          Something like: “I’m sorry to start my interview with a fib, plainly, I am not the person in my CV photo. My flatmate has convinced me that beautiful people get more interviews. He thinks they go on to enjoy privileged lives. I’m keen to prove him wrong. I’ve looked at your websites, this company does not hire people based on the colour of their skin, their age or cut of their jawline. Maybe my bogus photo helped get me here infront of you, now I’d like the chance to prove to you why I am the man for this job.”

          Even with little onboard, the privilege BS can be spun in one’s favour.

          • JC 12.2.1.1.1

            We regret to inform you ….

          • Molly 12.2.1.1.2

            I attended an author lecture for high-school aged students during the Writers Festival, and an Australian white fifty-something author, was speaking about challenging systems, and how they should – as engaged citizens – do the same.

            As an example, similar to your story above, he related a personal choice of his to challenge the authority of the police who stopped him while he was speeding. He related how he believed the positioning of the police officer outside his driver’s window would tip the balance of body language in favour of the officer – so, he decided to immediately exit the car, and make a phone call so that when the officer approached the car, he would already be out and engaged in another activity. He then stopped the call, and approached the officer introducing himself.

            The sheer disconnect of this author struck me. How unaware he was that his age, his race, his social status all contributed to how this was received by the officer.

            Your comments today – to me – have the same cognitive dissonance.

            The same actions, performed by different actors will have different consequences, and all the “clever” and can-do attitudes you espouse, will not address that fundamental truth.

            You are not only missing a trick, you have missed the whole damn circus.

            • David Mac 12.2.1.1.2.1

              Nah Molly, we agree, that dude is a wanker.

              As much as we like to say ‘No we aren’t.’ We are guided by our emotions.

              I see little value in trying to appear taller than the officer accusing me of speeding. I’d go for his heart.

              “Yep, guilty as charged, but more important than that, I’ve forgotten my wife’s birthday and I’m on the way to get something. By all means give me a ticket but please accompany it with gift suggestions, what did your get your other half last birthday?”

              • Molly

                ““Yep, guilty as charged, but more important than that, I’ve forgotten my wife’s birthday and I’m on the way to get something. By all means give me a ticket but please accompany it with gift suggestions, what did your get your other half last birthday?””
                Kissed the Blarney stone myself, and still wouldn’t come up with this kind of blather. What’s wrong with just accepting the ticket?

                Once again, you miss the point. You are someone who can actually imagine doing this, and giving it a go. This makes you tone-deaf when it comes to listening to others about privilege and how it manifests.

        • tracey 12.2.1.2

          I am glad life worked out for you but there is more than one version of tge world. Next you will tell me all people with a nice house and big income worked really hard to get it.

          • David Mac 12.2.1.2.1

            I’m sorry you see me as someone so shallow. The life I lead flies in the face of your assumption.

  13. Pat 13

    While vastly superior to the alternative (National led), yesterdays mini budget disappoints with its lack of forward thinking and begs the question have the Greens been sacrificed by having a horizon no further ahead than 2020?

    Chris Trotter….
    “There will be some who take umbrage at my uncompromising pessimism. To them I say: “It is only because I have been here before.” I remember another inspirational Labour leader who put an end to nine long years of National Party rule by promising to take New Zealand “up where we belong”, and who then allowed his Finance Minister to wreak havoc on the expectations and aspirations of his party’s electoral base.”

    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2017/12/grant-robertsons-mini-budget-presents.html

    • red-blooded 13.1

      Chris Trotter unimpressed – shock, horror! Since when has this guy been anything but a grinch when commenting on anything related to Labour?

      • Pat 13.1.1

        He has a very good point however…..by reaffirming the budget responsibility intent what tools will be provided to James Shaw to address ‘this generations nuclear free moment’??…..any transition is going to require massive investment and its not as if it can wait until a second or third term…..though there is a hint of a workable sleight of hand within Bernard Hickeys article..

        “Grant Robertson has ‘squared the circle’ of fitting the coalition Government’s big new spending plans into its self-imposed surplus and debt restrictions, but it means he will have to embrace “innovative financing mechanisms” such as Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) and off balance sheet bond issuance to fix the infrastructure deficits the Government has found.”

        https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/12/14/68554/analysis-debt-anchor-dragging-labour-into-ppps

        However sleight of hand gives the opposition ammunition and isnt likely to instil the sense of common purpose required…disappointing.

        • red-blooded 13.1.1.1

          Can you imagine how much MORE criticism and attack Labour and the Greens would have been under, leading up to the election, if they hadn’t signed up to the Budget responsibility pledge? Joyce and all his media flunkies would have had a field day, and the various economists who spoke up against the fictional $11.8 billion hole would have been entirely on their side. There’s no way in the world they would have been elected – they were already under attack on the issue of financial management and it would have buried them.

          Once elected, a u-turn on this would be an absolute betrayal and a nail in the coffin of the new government. Governments are accountable to the people who elect them and the people are entitled to know their true intentions.

          As for PPPs, I was really glad to know that one of the first announcements of the new Health Minister was that the rebuild of Dunedin Hospital is going ahead without one. I’m glad to see the list of areas that are now out of bounds. Better than we would have had under the Nats!

          • Pat 13.1.1.1.1

            “Better than we would have had under the Nats!”

            Couldnt agree more and your point re the attack pre election is noted though I suspect much the same outcome could have been achieved if the need for extending borrowing for infrastructure and transition had been promoted.

            As for a u turn…..meh, could the Nats and MSM be much more disruptive than they have been to date?….there has been ample uncovered to justify a move away from the 20% target, and IF off balance sheet bonds are used the same attacks will come in any case

            I just hope the plan IS to raise additional capital(off balance sheet if they must)..and not continue an austerity till collapse programme.

          • Macro 13.1.1.1.2

            Very good comment there Red.

        • tracey 13.1.1.2

          Labour said it was Arderns generations nuclear free moment so Robertson has hamstrung his own Party’s intention to address that?

    • tracey 13.2

      Poverty was a Green priority from pre election campaign, through the campaign and beyond. As a Party which garnered 6% of the vote they will be pleased to see the Families Package and rewinding of sanctions on not naming fathers going through so soon.

      I do not know why some are so disappointed in the Greens because they do not believe in wagging the dog and some core policy ( albeit not as far as they campaigbed)

  14. Rosemary McDonald 14

    Well, quite frankly, fuckit.

    Coroner beats head against brick wall trying to save another child from the fate suffered by Nia and Moko.

    Calls for, again mind, tracking of children so obvious red flags can be seen and action taken to save a child.

    New Children’s Minister, (in a fit of what? sensitivity for her righter winged constituents?) says….

    ” “I don’t think [compulsory monitoring is] something that most New Zealanders would be comfortable with”.

    “My initial conversations with colleagues reflect a similar view. While every child’s death is a tragedy and there are far too many, thankfully they are still rare. Most families are loving families,” she said.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11959003

    Now come on…if compulsory monitoring of all children, (and it doesn’t have to be Gestapo like) will save a single child from death by someone in loco parentis and save many more from abuse and petty fucking neglect then I say bring it on.

    Sensitivities be damned.

    If ALL children are expected to be seen by Plunket, doctors etc and questions asked and support offered if this is not happening, it will become apparent quite early those children who seriously need this level of monitoring.

    Must do better Tracey…you’re no longer on the campaign trail, you’re in…make the most of the opportunity to get this finally right.

    • Fran 14.1

      Rosemary I agree with you that this Government should get this right and I agree with the Children’s Commissioner that this register idea is a step too far.

      A children”s register is an authoritarian move and the potential for abuse of such a register is unlimited. Nearly all children are seen now – the problem is the under funding and excessive workload of the appropriate agencies once children are referred.

      While recognising that we have a serious child abuse problem in this country a band aid with fascist overtones is not the solution.

      Realistically there is no single magic bullet solution but I suspect that the families package announced yesterday will help and hope that other ideas and initiatives will come to the fore over the next wee while.

      • tracey 14.1.1

        “the problem is the under funding and excessive workload of the appropriate agencies once children are referred. ”

        Agree 100%. Address this and so much will fall into place.

        • Rosemary McDonald 14.1.1.1

          Hang on a minute…did you read the article I linked to?

          Moko didn’t die because there was no funding and there was an excessive workload…he died because those who were being funded to support…and I struggle to use the ‘families’ in this case…households such as this failed to take the appropriate steps to save his life.

          Why? God knows…the warning signs were all there and the agencies knew and for some reason…and I suspect some misplaced sensitivities…no one put their foot down demanded to see all the children in the household and check on their welfare.

          Or did you read the other article linked to in that article?

          Agencies involved with Moko…

          Child Youth and Family, the Auckland DHB, the Maori Women’s Welfare Refuge, the Waipahihi Kindergarten, Family Works, as well as the Rural Education Activities Programme.

          But not one of them actually did their job and ensured the safety of all the children in that household.

          Why? Poor training? Lack of authority? Absence of some mechanism to facilitate direct investigation and immediate intervention is there is a suspicion that a child is at risk.

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11915525

          “Fascist overtones”…wtf?

          Such a pity that some would rather have a dead child than an authority figure step in…

          • tracey 14.1.1.1.1

            Yes I read it. I also know a large number of social workers. All have great hearts, huge workloads, poor resources…

            Did you miss comment 14.2?

    • tracey 14.2

      If a child has come under the Lens of a government agency I would like to think we put resource into the education of the parent/carer while constantly ensuring the child is safe. It sounds like the Minister is appeasing someone/someones? Why?

    • One Two 14.3

      “If ALL children are expected to be seen by Plunket, doctors etc”

      No

  15. adam 15

    Good old counter propaganda

  16. mac1 16

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/12/where-not-to-swim-this-summer-beaches-and-swimming-spots-too-dirty-to-swim-in.html

    The article lists above 32 spots plus many more at a cautionary level.

    Most I don’t know but the list includes places where I have swum as man and boy- Coes Ford on the Selwyn River, Lake Hayes and Lake Tekapo.

    What a headline for a clean, green New Zealand.

    No wonder a British paper described NZ as likened to a beautiful woman with cancer.

    • cleangreen 16.1

      Yes we are entering a serious stage of being labeled as a dirty country now sadly, after nine years of National mishandling of our environment and national must now be blamed globally for their foolish deception of using “profit first without preservation.”

      • mac1 16.1.1

        I’m glad you spotted the lack of reference as to who is to blame. You are right, of course. Nine long years……. etc.

        After less than two months in office, such issues lie with other than the present government.

        I am angry that such a legacy, having been handed on from the days of my youth and young manhood, is now so besmirched.

        I do place great faith and hope in this Green-Labour- NZF government. So much important work to be done.

  17. Morrissey 17

    Harvey Weinstein told him not to hire two young women, so he obeyed:
    The spineless “Sir” Peter Jackson slithers back into our consciousness.

    You may have thought the nadir of “Sir” Peter Jackson’s career came on Q+A in 2010 when he sat, cringing and obviously uncomfortable, occasionally forcing himself to parrot the brutal anti-union rhetoric of his Warner Brothers paymasters, and then squirming uncomfortably, in a fretful silence, as Philippa Boyens and Fran Walsh did all the talking.

    Now it transpires he was not just a slave to Warner Brothers’ lawyers, but also to Harvey Weinstein….

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/99885932/sir-peter-jackson-breaks-silence-on-harvey-weinstein

    • Gristle 17.1

      Possibly a case of outing yourself before somebody else does.

    • OnceWasTim 17.2

      Awe, don’t be mean Morrissey – your just jealous. Think of all the good he’s done!
      A true philanthropist. A humble man who has pulled himself up by the bootstraps and put NuZull on the global stage.
      I mean……Bats Theatre – think of all those poor starving actors and actorines he’s given opportunity to. The increase in property values on the Miramar Penninsular.
      The lookalike Hollywood sign – truly inspirational and fostering aspiration amongst our up and coming yoof. His contribution to arts’n’kulcha makes him a true hero – the likes of which we have not seen since Sir Edmund, or Sir John, or Dame Kurry Prendisgust and sidekick Rex, and to all those hardworking people he’s given so much sprayshun to. Why the haughty soon2b Sir Krus Seatoun Heights might have to issue you with an admonishment tackling you over your obvious bitterness. (It really isn’t a good look doncha know)
      And then think of all those industries he’s helped while building his reputation! The IT sector.
      You do know don’t you, that Sir Peter is actually really, really down with the people and peons, and has an undying love of all the minions that have contributed to building his empire. I know people who’d be prepared to lick the pavement clean before he puts a step on it!
      What’s wrong with you man!!! I suspect it’s just envy and your inability (and desire) to reach the heights of beloved SPete . How dare you judge that icon who symbolises everything that’s put NuZull on the Whurl stage (going forward).
      I’m forever indebted to the humble SPete to be be able to live in the same space (Wellington and its environs).

      (/sarc)

    • greywarshark 17.3

      Morrissey
      I hope you have managed to buy a house. It will probably be the biggest and most complex financial transaction you ever make. If you built it also, that is complex, but not a spot on swinging a huge financial deal and technical marvel that Sir Peter Jackson did. It is funny to hear so many criticise Sir Peter unmercifully. You are good at criticising from your keyboard and your small projects. You have no idea of the weight of mega bucks and executive decisions required to make these films in New Zealand. He may not have behaved as fairly as he should, but he shouldn’t be demonised either.

      • OnceWasTim 17.3.1

        aGREED. But I’ve yet to see him atone.

        A bit of a pathetic effort today in relation to Harvey W. But then we’re all so bloody perfect eh?

        And that weight of megabucks must be something truly horrible to have to endure.

      • Morrissey 17.3.2

        Jackson made some really good movies—long ago. But, as we saw when he presented as a shambling embarrassment in that Q+A debacle, he sold his conscience to Hollywood, and he is well aware of it. Save your admiration for someone who deserves it.

      • fender 17.3.3

        Morrissey has no problems acquiring property.

    • Harvey Weinstein told him not to hire two young women, so he obeyed:

      Gosh, what a surprise – the story you refer to bears no relation to your description of it.

      • Morrissey 17.4.1

        That’s what happened, though, is it not? He caved to Harvey Weinstein like he caved to Warner Brothers and Stephen Joyce.

  18. Andre 18

    Roy Moore continues to deliver gloriously nutso moments. FFS, even the White adult daycare House thinks he should have conceded by now. But no, Moore delivers a delightfully bonkers “battle rages on” statement.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/14/16777786/white-house-roy-moore-alabama-concede

    Of course, Alex Jones has to take it to a whole ‘nother level.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alex-jones-roy-moore-conspiracy-theory_us_5a32a17ee4b00dbbcb5b97ec?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

    Then if you take one of the conspiracy theories and work out the logistics of actually making it happen …

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alabama-election-conspiracy-theory_us_5a321692e4b01bdd7659f2ce

    • ianmac 18.1

      Yep Andre. I watched the Moore video where he will fight on. I expect that a deeply religious man like him will have god on his side and therefore the votes will do a magnificent Russian flip giving Moore a 90% majority. Let us pray.

  19. Rosemary McDonald 19

    From the ‘thank god its Friday and we all deserve a laugh’ file…

    Who will speak up for them now Mike is gone????

    (Hankies optional)

    “Mike Hosking fought for the luxury European car owner. He fought for the dispossessed of Orakei and St Heliers. He provided a voice for the wearers of distressed denim and funky blazers. Without him, Mark Richardson stands alone and lonely atop his mountain, a sole sane speaker of truth amid a sea of bloody pinko lefties.

    Labour gets in here, and completely coincidentally, Hosking and Leighton are gone. You didn’t need Ken Ring around to predict a painful two years ahead for Mike.

    Lots of time to be wasted, fiddling with your pen and providing sad-faced links to stories about Labour policies on doing nice things for the homeless and beneficiaries and children would have been tough when he could have been vacuuming his car or doing at-home spreads for Woman’s Day.”

    More here….

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/99891844/mike-hosking-gone-time-for-european-car-drivers-to-unite

    • SPC 19.1

      Once he takes all his Dysons home with him, what will happen to the state of the housekeeping at TVNZ?

    • Andre 19.2

      He’ll still be on the radio, right? I mean, if he’s not around at all we’d lose Like Mike too and that really would be a loss.

      • OnceWasTim 19.2.1

        I watched the programme with Mike and Miss Personality tonight from start to finish for the first time ever. What a cringeworthy load of kaka with the exception of the guys offering a serenade.
        AS Mike fought back tears, I half expected John Hawkesby to come on set and tell us how thankful he was to have Mike as his sonny-bro.
        What a complete load of self-indulgent crap.
        Who is Miss Personality btw?
        Never mind…. I just googled her. All over tomorrow’s fish and chip wrappers

  20. Rosemary McDonald 20

    Farrar has stooped to an all time low by posting an ‘anonymous letter from a reader’ casting even further aspersions on Golriz Ghahraman’s career.

    What?

    Were his rating falling and he had to come up with a scheme to incite the pack of racist misogynists who dwell there into a fervour of comment and click?

    A truly pathetic effort there Farrar, and you call yourself an “Editor”.

  21. McFlock 21

    Tories get cranky when they miss their lunch. Long may an opposition of this calibre last lol.

    • tracey 21.1

      I did laugh. Those who bemoan lack of work ethic in others couldnt wait for lunch. Shoulda taken sammies in with them given they knew they were going to delay the hell out of proceedings.

      • McFlock 21.1.1

        ISTR a similar story about lunches from a mines dispute decades ago. The argument that went to court was whether the miners’ half hour lunch break should start when they left the face or when they left the pit mouth. There was much discussion about how long the workers deserved, then the judge called a break in proceedings for lunch: two hours.

      • greywarshark 21.1.2

        If you think Freudian slip, what made Laura Walters fingers say this:

        National’s protestations were likely more an effort to delay the passing of the Government’s Families Package Bill, than a bout of hanger.

        To me I think of those undisciplined school boys in the Gnat Party needing a ‘hanging’ judge.
        Maybe they should be hung up on the tiled walls of the men’s room to cool down.
        Perhaps hung from a nice pillory or, if budget constraints limit, a set of stocks outside where the public could show their feelings for them.

    • Keepcalmcarryon 21.2

      Yes poor Jami lee Ross the wee petal. It looks like the low wage, union busting, zero hour, employment contracts act National party doesn’t walk the talk on work ethic.
      Always nice for the public to see what real hypocrites look like.

  22. eco maori 22

    I refrained from attacking the ferrari man to much after all he is human and he toned it down a bit but one could read that he wanted to trash our Coalition Government. Did you see what happened on breakfast this morning that was when Jack mentioned someone’s career that was ________ funny I got a sore face.
    I had a good day yesterday oil changed the truck got the vacuum cleaner fixed just about fix it myself the things to old to see how to open it up on youtube so I took it to Turnbuckle Electrical on Amohia st Vags they gave me excellent service Ka pai.
    I’m battling one of our computers it the main one with all my business files and files on you no who I think they gave it a hand to crash Iv had help from my coder uncle I took the hard drive out put it in a external drive case I’m just scanning it at the moment because we are minimalistic I will fix the old laptop if I can load all the data on another hard drive and load Windows 10 back then reload all the data if not new computer they are cheap now. When my children were young I spent $10.000 on computers for them to play games on most of the educational games did not run my wife typed up a few letters for a friend whom had a bone to pick with a district council. But the investment payed off because we all have at least basic computer skills Thanks to my uncle influence Ka pai

    • eco maori 22.1

      When I took my computer into the computer shop and met PREBLE and Gissymo they want to keep my computer YEA RIGHT eco didn’t drop out the sky yesterday they could have said it was _____ so today it’s going again all good Ana to kai

  23. eco maori 23

    The mokos have arrived so much for getting the paper work dune my little blue eyes is here to they keep a smile on my face Kia kaha

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