1. More revelations about Labour stealing from the public purse.
2. More diversionary tactics from Labour sycophants here at the Standard.
3. And more impiortantly…the public further reinforce their belief that Labour could not run a shower let alone a government.
Sort your act out guys, this nation needs a strong opposition, we simply cannot afford another term of Labour lite policies from Neville Key and the Nat’s.
Force Neville back to the right, only then can we hope to build a strong economy, one strong enough to withstand another Labour government (in about nine years)
More visits from well known RWNJs and new posters that we have never heard of before. More incessant chantings of slogans along the lines of “Labour Bad”. More claims that the taking of data from a crippled server was somehow authorised.
No doubt the debate will be heated and no one’s opinions will be changed.
Normally you can put together a fairly reasoned (all be it wrong) argument, I guess even you have been forced to concede that Labour are as guilty as sin when it comes to stealing public funds.
Tell me mate, why is it that you lot think you have the right to steal my money whenever you fancy?
[Blatant trolling. A repeat will not be tolerated. Final warning…RL]
If you ever had any doubts about the Casino nature of the economy as RWNJs want it try this headline from the NY Times this morning..Markets Turn Up Sharply After Release of Retail Data
Apparently the markets gained 1% on news that data was bad BUT not as bad as expected. Go figure. It is the sort of mentality that drives Keys economic vision, pray and hope and talk up what is a very bad story.
Indeed, our primary outputs are going to be highly in demand whilst there is still some liquidity in the world. Commentary from http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/ has repeatedly got the indicators right, they suggest the world economy will have increasingly sharp swings up and down with the average being slow decline. Interesting times.
The line indicating value on the graph is OK if you assume unlimited growth and available resources…take the resource availability out consumption comes down, and with it true value.This is what we now face.
I don’t know why bad data, but not as bad as expected, somehow surprised you when the market rallies?
They ‘price in’ what they expect the results of every report will be. Then, if the report comes out as expected, the market barely moves. If it comes out differently, the market will move towards the new position.
Nothing casino-like at all. Simple rational behaviour of markets, really.
Quite simply if I see niceness breaking out amongst political parties in a democracy, then I’d consider that it is time to depart that society.
If the level of mudslinging, vitriol, hate and intolerance we have in our politics is seen as an essential part of a “healthy democracy” it’s no wonder our society has more than a few rough edges.
PeteG, we might want to consider that vitriol and extreme positions go hand in hand with a society under increasing stress. The party that was the last 30 years is over, the “economy”if you can call it that now faces the long slow decline that will parallel resouce depletion (energy in particular). There are no magic bullets, no immediate cure, or way back ever. Its gone. Bleak indeed.
The cosy assumptions of the middle classes are crumbling before their eyes, no financial institution is to be trusted, no long term future based on what we are used to can be trusted. Those who own most are grasping to own more, those with least are getting less. So we will fight one another for the diminishing remains of what is left. Dont expect it to be “nice”, it is too visceral for that.
I guess it might sound a bit strange to some to expect that all our elected reprentatives should actually represent us and work together for the good of the country rather than ignore the people that voted for them, barricade themselves in party factions and try and bring each other down by any means they can think of, more foul than fair.
Doesn’t it seem strange that we seem to accept a “democracy” where the main opposition party doesn’t accept the democrat vote of the election and instead devotes itself to trying to bring the government down?
That sounds like actively encouraged desperate for power sedition to me, not democracy.
Continually trying to bring a government down is, isn’t it?
You know very well I don’t support single party rule. That’s just another of your attempts at devious and blatant misrepresentation.
I support multiple healthy parties who can work together for the good of the country (which they do at select committee level now anyway) but can still have differences and debates on issues.
“You know very well I don’t support single party rule. “
Actually I don’t, Pete. I know you say that, but every time we drill down through your ideas about representation we run into this brick wall that you just don’t seem to be able to see over.
Who’s this “we” you are referring to? Who are you working with?
You don’t give me the impression you want to understand what I think.
You give me the impression you want to eliminate posts you don’t want here. Under favourable protection you try to exclude who you don’t want on the blog.
By “we” I just mean myself and the other commenters who have tried at length to get you to examine your ideas a little more closely. I’m only speaking for myself, but acknowledging that I’m not the only one who has put these questions to you.
Would you like to change the subject again or are you going to try to answer the question now?
I have other things to do sometimes felix, I’m not perpetually in thrall of your quaint manoeverings.
Politicians should be prepared to justify their actions to all voters.
I notice in that exchange that I made it clear (again) that I don’t support a one party state. Most of you “assumptions” there were incorrect, but that’s what you seem to like doing.
I support a multi party state where the parties don’t always try and destroy each other.
A question for you – do you accept that I don’t support a one party state?
And because if I said things like “please can our politicians and their heavies behave a bit more civilly and set a better example” it tends to get ignored.
Parties need jolting out of their self obsession with power at any price. Blogs aid and abet their charade of democracy, aka desparate clinging to power by any means.
Yeah everyone should just shut up and let you* make all the decisions then, for the good of democracy.
*Yes yes, I know I heard you the last time. You have a new and improved method of politics where people you listen to will talk to you and you’ll do what they tell you. Sounds like something I’d hate, sorry.
Pete I have no great love or respect for our parliamentarians, however, in their defense our parliamentary system is set up and designed to be oppositional in nature so as to ensure a positive and negative position on all issues are vigorously debated while this can lead to the childish and hateful behaviour we often seen in parliament it is a reasonable price to pay for having a democracy.
Oppositional is fine, we need that. But I think our parties go much further than “oppositional”.
We can have opposition and denbate without having to resort to the levels of mudslinging, blatant dishonesty and illegality (or stretching the rules to suit) that we get far too much of.
Oh I agree with all that, I was pretty much backing up lprent’s view that if we suddenly had an outbreak of agreement on everything from the politicians we should all be very worried indeed.
I consider that those would be where people are getting killed, tortured, jailed, disappeared or having the shit beaten out of them. When you look outside democracies that is what you see. When you look at sham ‘democracies’ like Fiji, that is what you see. In fact that appears to be the norm for the political process over the centuries.
The penalty cost for having a vaguely democratic system like ours is that you allow minorities and dissidents room to have a voice without getting killed (etc) is that the process is noisy. The noisiness appears to be what you’re objecting to.
I suspect you have lived a sheltered existence and could do to get out more amongst different cultures to see how they handle their political systems. You don’t even have to leave the country. I’d suggest that you do what I did at age 18 and go in the army. The culture was quite different to what I was used to, and soldiers there had a far far clearer appreciation of a free society looked like than you do.
Why can’t Radio NZ leave the Darren Hughes affair alone? This morning they were trying (again) to make Phil Goff look bad over it. Are CT worried that Phil is increasingly like a better alternative than the donkey, et al. Move along.
How is it smear mongering? He was under the influence of something, I didn’t say it was Darren that had anything to do with it. I’m merely pointing out the reason why charges were not laid. This was reported by the way.
[lprent: Whatever it was, I’d guess that you just failed to put in the link. Silly you. But I suspect that you made up your own story and didn’t put in a link to something reputable because it didn’t support you interpretation – right?.
Don’t be daft. If you want to make a statement of fact or insinuation of fact, then you need to support it. Otherwise we’ll treat it as trolling. ]
Crosby Textor – a hybrid organism that infects the brain stem of weak minded egoists who believe that some people are simply better than others because they own more shit.
One typical CT tactic is to provide news organisations with easy access to selective “facts”, specific framing/languaging and acceptable people to interview.
And with news organisations having to do more on less and less, its a quick easy way for them to get some content out there without working too hard.
mickeysavage, is it true that you sent a whiny missive to Peter Goodfellow of National complaining about Cameron Slater and worrying about whether he had your credit card details?
Wouldn’t that be like someone on the right complaining to the Labour party about the antics of someone from The Standard? I’m sure you would agree that the Standard boys and girls cannot be dictated to by Labour Party head office yet you seem to think Cameron Slater can. Truly Bizarre.
Anyway I thought the Labour party has already stated that the credit card information was on another properly protected server and nothing was compromised? Don’t you trust the Labour party hierarchy on this?
People have done that a couple of times to us as well.
However, the National party’s IP’s are all over the access logs long before Slater touched it. It would appear that the National party could have a copies of some Labour party data, and it looks highly likely that someone in the National Party tipped off their poodle. So yes you may know what you told your poodle to collect.
But I suggest you look at the Privacy Act. It has some interesting provisions for organisations having to disclose any information that they hold on individuals.
So is Cameron working for ACT or National ……….. or is he actually responsible for 9/11?
Perhaps he’s just a political junkie who revels in poking opposing political junkies, politicians and political parties with a stick ……… seems to be good therapy for him.
I bet if the question was: “Would you support a new $400m investigation into WTC7 collapse?” the answer would have been a lot more negative.
In other words, if you give stuff away for free, even if it’s stuff people don’t really care about, they’ll gladly accept it. If you charge them for it, you’ll get a low fewer takers.
ROFL, Fuck, rare earth man talk about a warped argument.
I’ll tell you what; if the choice is let’s get to the bottom of why a perfectly well build 47 story steel framed high rise collapsed after only minor office fires into its own footprint in 6.5 seconds breaking all Newtons laws of motion for a mere $400 million before we bankrupt ourselves attacking Afghanistan and Iraq considering the fact that they spend $ 40 million on the Lewinski/Clinton case (to find out whether he lied under oath about screwing the girl) I’m sure NYers would choose the investigation into the collapse of building 7 no problem.
Here is the collapse for those of you who didn’t know about the third building collapsing.
Even NIST had no explanation as to why this happened and let’s face it it never happened before or after 911.
More than 1500 Architects and Engineers want to know why it happened too. If only to be able to prevent it from happening another time.
This would be round about the same number of supposed “Architects and Engineers”, (including a high number of students it must be stated), that has been claimed by that same website for the past few years.
If you must use the appeal to authority and numbers logical fallacy to bolster your argument it would be better if you could actually show that the numbers supporting these wacky ideas are actually growing significantly over time rather than stagnating.
no Cowboy hat boy,
the figures are: 1,513verifiedarchitectural and engineering professionals and 12,284 other supporters
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.
If that many building professionals want to know why a perfectly well build steel framed twice reinforced to withstand nuclear blasts collapses after a couple of hours of minor carbon fires within 6.5 seconds into its own footprint breaking all the laws of motion I’m happy to second that request. That is not using authority to press a point that is pointing out that since I’m not a building professional but they are I’m inclined to support that demand. Especially since even NIST after eight years can not explain the collapse.
I note you failed to answer the actual question that I raised, which was shouldn’t the numbers supporting this investigation be growing substationally rather than stagnating as seems to be the case?
Eve, about the ‘small office fire in WTC7’ that you like to mention, here’s video you could link to in support of that:
and an interview with Deputy Fire Chief Peter Hayden, from early 02:
Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
Looks to me like a substantial fire that was left to burn for several hours because the firefighters were concerned about the integrity of the building. But opinions vary obviously.
Here is a fire in a steel framed building in Madrid. It was much hotter, the building much more fragile and it burned mush longer but the building was still there.
Here is a steel framed building in China which again burned far hotter ,longer and was build in a strange lopsided manner but it di not collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture and no steel framed building other than the three WTC buildings have ever collapsed due to fires, let alone into their own foot prints in 6.5, 10 and 11 seconds. And the reaon for its collapse was because according to them one beam of the structure heated up and expanded a tiny bit more than the others causing the structure to collapse like a controlled ($ millions of dollars to pull off correctly) demolition. Come on PB, Come on.
Let me ask you something? Try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds or a 180 in 10-11 seconds. That is the time it took for those buildings to “collapse”. If you can do that I concede that those buildings failed structurally into their own footprint towards the path of most resistance.
Still not small office fire. It was bloody big office fire left to burn for several hours because the fire crews thought the building was going to collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture
Wikipedia mis-reports the NIST interim report then:
In its progress report, NIST released a video and still-photo analysis of 7 World Trade Center before its collapse that appears to indicate a greater degree of structural damage from falling debris than originally assumed by FEMA. Specifically, NIST’s interim report on 7 World Trade Center displays photographs of the southwest facade of the building that show it to have significant damage. The report also highlights a 10-story gash in the center of the south facade, toward the bottom, extending approximately a quarter of the way into the interior.[5][41] A unique aspect of the design of 7 World Trade Center was that each outer structural column was responsible for supporting 2,000 sq ft (186 m²) of floor space, suggesting that the simultaneous removal of a number of columns severely compromised the structure’s integrity.[42] Consistent with this theory, news footage shows cracking and bowing of the building’s east wall immediately before the collapse, which began at the penthouse floors.[5] In video of the collapse, taken from the north by CBS News and other news media, the first visible sign of collapse is movement in the east penthouse 8.2 seconds before the north wall began to collapse, which took at least another 7 seconds.
I know, I know, wikipedia. But still. The NIST report says something. It either says what wikipedia claims it says, or what you claim it says. Shall I check?
The madrid building wasn’t more fragile, it had a reinforced concrete central core, which survived, the steel shell around it collapsed though, about 2-3 hours in to the fire.
PB,
I take it you did not try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds then.
Buildings do not collapse due to fire in freefall speed into their own foot print because of gravity.
The fire was comparatively cold and the explanation from NIST has been peer reviewed and found wanting.
Here is a link to the NY times archives explaining the reinforcement of the building in 1989.
It was reinforced again to house the emergency bunker of Giuliani. It was supposed to be able to withstand a nuclear impact.
Here is a video which shows the explosion initiation bringing down the building in the afternoon. NIST denies explosions occurred.
Here is a video of an interview with Barry Jennings. Barry Jennings was the Deputy Director of Emergency Services Department for the New York City Housing Authority. He died under mysterious circumstances just before the NIST report was released. He describes explosions in the building when none of the two towers had collapsed yet and He describes how the first 6 floors just disappeared leaving the outer walls standing.
however, all I’m pointing out is that you keep saying it was a small fire, when video shows that it wasn’t, and that there was structural damage when you claim there was none, and that the NIST report doesn’t say what you claimed it says.
Given this, I’m not really inclined to trust things you have to say. That’s not my fault, it’s your fault. You say things that when checked turn out to not be true, or at the very least , wildy misleading.
It really really really will help you to convince people if you sort that problem out.
If that many building professionals want to know why a perfectly well build steel framed twice reinforced to withstand nuclear blasts collapses after a couple of hours of minor carbon fires within 6.5 seconds into its own footprint breaking all the laws of motion I’m happy to second that request
Is what I said PC. Compared to the Spanish and Chinese fire they were minor.
If you choose to ignore evidence of explosions (You’re not alone, NIST refused to address this), the fact that the building reinforced to withstand a nuclear blast did collapse in free fall speed 6.5 seconds into its own foot print against all laws of motion and physics and unseen before and after 911 than that is your prerogative, mate.
Thanks a bunch for keeping the thread alive because unlike you there are always people who do want to know and they get to learn about it this way.
For those of you wanting to meet other people who want to know the truth here is the forum you might want to visit and become a member from and here is once again the link to Architects and engineers for 911 truth. Here is the site for the fire fighters for 911 truth and here is a list of prominent patriots who want a new and independent investigation.
Why does political discourse have to be so violent Gosman?
And by the looks of your comment you will be aware that I have written expressing my concern that my private information may be held by the National Party and by Slater. Cameron has responded in his usual manner.
I am actually wondering about the benefit of debating some issues online. I don’t care about abuse myself, but I know a number of others who feel very threatened by the overly intrusive and abusive behaviour of some.
Are you suggesting my comments to you constitutes abuse?
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow about the credit card information that Cameron Slater might or might not have and the reason why you sent the e-mail to him when your issue seems to be with Cameron Slater and the Labour party has already stated that credit card information was not accessed.
Yes I did say your e-mail was whiny but that is my personal opinion of it when reading it. That is hardly constitutes abuse on any major level in my book but if you were horribly offended I must apologise profusely to you.
Sorry Gosman. I agree your comment was mild in comparison to many.
I was referring more to the stream of texts and emails I am currently receiving.
I am pretty thick skinned about it but I just had breakfast with a few others who have been considerably affected by the application of the internet blowtorch on them.
I actually sympathise with you on this. I inwardly cringed when I saw you included your contact details on the e-mail as I could imagine certain people would most likely use that information in rather nasty ways. I might disagree with your political view point but there really is no excuse for that sort of stuff.
I’m told (elsewhere on this thread) that a climate of political attack and abuse is essential for democracy to function, and to keep lprent in the country.
But (I presume) MS is not being abused by politicians or representatives of political parties. So how does your “new way of doing things” have anything to do with the current issues MS is having?
I was talking about my opinons I posted on and discussed here, about the example of political behaviour set by our so called leaders – that any tactics are fair game as long as you can get away with it. Behaviour that flows out, including to politically minded people who seem to think anything and anyone is fair game in the brawl for power.
I think it’s incredibly sad to see the amount of resources that go into trying to abuse and destroy in political circles. It goes far beyond democratic debate, it’s an excuse to be a power seeking arsehole.
I figured that would be your answer. But don’t you think they you are seriously exaggerating the potential benefits of your so-called ‘new way of doing things’? Obviously, behaviour of political minded people is influenced to some degree by our political leaders. But people aren’t suddenly going to start behaving like angels just because there is less dirt being thrown around at the top.
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow
Is that the same guy that the movie Goodfellas was named after? 😉
How do you threaten someone without threatening someone?
“Hey Mickey, look, you’ve been causing trouble here and you know it. Why would you do that when you know your mum has just had a heart attack and is recovering down at St Vincent’s? And your wife, she’s got that new job at the store down the road hasn’t she? I heard that she likes it there. Now your little Matty he’s at such a sensitive age looking to start school next month. So Mickey, if I were you, I’d just focus on making sure that your family stays healthy and happy, and not worrying about all this other political stuff.
Wrote to both to put them on notice and to ask for information they held concerning me. Slater responded rather briefly saying “F@#$ off”. His eloquence is mythical. I am thinking of seeking clarification of his position but it is a bit like poking a bear with a stick …
Bizarre -with one hand typing damning accusations of dirty tricks from the opposing party, and with the other hand dissing me for suggesting our opposition model of democracy is a tad bent.
So it hasn’t crossed your mind that people aren’t actually dissing you for saying that you aren’t happy with the present model, but are actually calling bullshit on your alternative proposal?
Interesting, Pete. That level of narcissism could take you a long way in your new career.
Pete, why must you resort to these filthy insinuations? Kumbaya mate! Remember?
Let us talk closely know and reason together a way out of this mess, a mess caused by your sad and pathetic wallowing in the politics of personal denigration. First admit that your idea is fail, and then agree with us to move forward, together.
Gerry the Butt is on air saying that he can’t say anything definite. It’s blindingly obvious he says that some people will have to shift. But he doesn’t want to state definite areas, ‘It is a big decision for people, it’s a lifetime investment, but the ducks have to be all lined up. Even after an announcement there will be a considerable time before people can move”.
Every comment he makes shows that he understands the position and then refuses to answer the questions, to make decisions because he has to make decisions that are ‘very, very robust’. Everyone wanting simplistic approaches are being unreasonable. So much for all his powers. I imagine that the decision to appoint him went like this – Gerry is such a mouthy livewire. His family know about timber. He knows about practical working with timber. He is a teacher, (who often think they know everything) and is not a shy communicator. He won’t be happy with his other positions. This will give him something to get his teeth into, which are false, and get him out of our hair here at NACT headquarters where he is a bit of a nit.
Last “It’s about fairness to the property owners”. By that he means, not making precipitate announcements, before all the possibilities have been gravely considered, chewed over like a cow’s cud, and finally excreted to the population. By all means they can’t be consulted with, have location meetings with management and engineers as they wish, who would explain the difficulties and possible and likely solutions and what the hold-ups are caused by. This is the authoritarian way.
Excerpt from the song Show Me from My Fair Lady – sing along!
Words! Words! Words! I’m so sick of words!
I get words all day through;
First from him, now from you!
Is that all you blighters can do?
Has anyone thought of a protest occupation at his place? You know, everyone bring one bucketful of liquefaction from their property to dump on his lawn, just to make a point.
cv That would be a newsworthy action. It seems we can otherwise only act like an army of primed mosquitoes buzzing and biting till he reacts. If we can inject some ideas viruses and set up an itch we might get action and move this organic pile for the benefit of all of Christchurch.
Next idea is that the east side parts to be abandoned for housing should be bought by Landcorp from CERA or other body and then turned into dairy farms. These would use best practice and be models showing good environmental practices using present understanding of using effluent safely. I understand that if treated properly the gases produced can be utilised for energy. Landcorp would hold environmental field days similar to Hamilton and attract farmers and the general public for demonstrations. Landcorp would also develop, assisted by locals, corridors of vegetation for birds etc. Some of the people who had had to abandon their previous houses would have the option of living in hamlets of suitable, practical, low-cost houses on suitable higher ground with a passing grade from engineers. These would be served by buses morning, lunchtime and evening so that they wouldn’t be isolated from the city and wouldn’t need a car to get to work.
I’ve never understood how in a country so full of cow shit, mushrooms can cost $12/kg! Using modern mycological methods we could drink the run off from dairy, but not while we assign more value to ipods than we do to chickens. They are just gaming it to see which way their corporations can make the most money from it and once they’ve been told what they are going to do,I’m sure they will let us all in on it. I thinking your all expecting a little too much from someone who obviously has someone else hand up his am I allowed to say that? I better go read more policy 🙂
whilst the poodles were licking their wounds, and the journos were playing three card Monty with the truth, it seems the Education Minister has been busy planning the destruction of one of the few programmes that has consistently helped thousands of POOR children recieve much needed assistance for over fifty years
Tolley wants to close the Health Camps and is not saying what will replace them
This is a very serious attack on one of our country’s most internationally applauded Child-assistance policies. Does anyone have any detail? http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/5140699/Letter-an-insult-to-board
I do know that Health Camps became a sort of mis-nomer years ago. Used to be just for kids who were sick.
But now it is a respite for desperate kids suffering from abuse and learning difficulties and general needs. Kids are there for a limited time and get regular meals, regular recreation, and regular schooling. Suppose the problem is in what happens to those kids after the Camp.
No, my friend was raped by one of the ‘leaders’ at the health camp. I look back at those six weeks as a time that I learnd to harden my heart and really start to hate the world. If there ever was a FAIL in the states attempts to fix my broken family, then this camp was definitely one of them. I do not know of a single other kid who liked or benefited in their time there, far too much like a “getting you ready for prison” and “boot camp” to be anything other than a tool instilling repression in our youth. Good Riddance!
‘Lack of certainty is killing the spirit and economy of Christchurch’
OK. Here is some certainties:
1. Global extraction of conventioanl oil has peaked, so current economic arrangements will disintegrate over the next decade. The globalised, industrialised food system will collapse..
2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered, substantial sea level rise that will cover much of Canterbury is more or less inevitable over coming decades. i.e. Christchurch doesn’t have a long term future.
3. Politicians serve their own interests, and the interests of bankiers and corporations. Any ‘solutions’ they come up with will therefore primarily be for the benefit politicians, bankers and corporations. Since peak oil and abrupt climate change are taboo topics for them, their ‘solutions’ will be completely disconnected from reality.
4. Most people are ignorant of the facts and don’t believe the truth when it is provided.
5 The most important item on the agenda of politicians and the media at this stage in the game is to keep ‘the proles’ misinformed and believing in the system – a bit like Fukishima: ‘everything is under control’.
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come. (Of course, those who run early get the best spots.)
[lprent: This sidetracked way to far from the post. Next time I see you do this, you will get a *long* ban. moving whole thread to OpenMike. ]
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come.
In the kind of apocolyptic scenario you are thinking of those who are isolated in the ‘hills’ will be the first to be picked off. It will be those who have strong communities around them who will survive.
You should look at the post-Soviet experience in Russia during the 1990’s to get a better model of what is more likely to happen.
Yeah and Fukushima is a worry. The cover up is worse than Chernobyl.
“2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered,”
Which positive feedbacks have been triggered? Last news I heard was that were potentially heading into a Maunder Minimum, giving us several decades of cold weather.
How can the earth be at “peak oil” when we’re yet to reach peak exploration? Get a grip! I heard this sort of doomsday meanderings back in the 1970s. Why don’t you google “fracking” then re-phrase what you loosely call “known facts?” Idiot!
Micky wrote to Goodfellow and ccd Slater on the email. It was a strange, rambling email that accused all sorts of high crimes on behalf of National for which Micky has no evidence while purportedly defending Labour’s unlawful and non-existent lack of security on its data.
Micky then told Slater he was free to publish the email but only in its entirety. Is it any wonder that Slater did so, and included the contact details that Micky left which were on the email, following Micky’s request to publish in entirety?
Micky if you are Labour’s legal counsel then Labour really is up shit creek. Cam Slater’s blog isn’t even subject to the Privacy Act, so good luck trying to shift that shit up a hill.
There has been some recent publicity concerning the National Party’s downloading of information from a Labour Party server which regrettably was not as secure as it might be.
From today’s National Business Review I note that you have confirmed that a National Party staff member “accessed” the data. By this I anticipate that you mean “downloaded”. The data has also regrettably found its way into the hands of Mr Cameron Slater.
I am pretty sure that some of the data was mine. I donated to the Labour Party to purchase some “Stop Asset Sales” signs as I considered this a worthy cause to support. The idea of selling an interest in our power companies to essentially overseas interests is frankly insane. I paid for the signs by credit card and I am concerned that the National Party now has my credit card’s details.
You can imagine the worry that this has caused me. It is bad enough that your party has my credit card details but there is the strong possibility that your organisation has also facilitated Cameron Slater aka Whaleoil to obtain the same information. I cannot imagine what he will do with this information.
So I seek the following from you:
1. Advice on what data your organisation holds concerning me.
2. Your organisation’s undertaking that it will not disclose any information that it holds concerning me to any third party.
3. Details of information already supplied to Mr Slater concerning the security problems that the Labour Party server had.
4. Details of information supplied to any third party which may include data that relates to me.
Please note that if I suffer any monetary loss because of the actions of your organisation then I reserve the right to seek damages.
I am sending a copy of this email to Mr Slater so that he is also placed on notice. I also seek the same information from him. If he does anything that causes me loss then I reserve the right to seek redress from him personally.
I note that Mr Slater has chosen to print previous emails from Chris Flatt. He is at liberty to print this email but only in full.
Finally please note that I require a response within the next seven days. “
Don’t you think you made a bit of a major assumption there that the National party organisation supplied Cameron Slater with this information.
I’m not sure if people in the organisation had publically come out and denied they had when you wrote off to them but if they had what were you expecting them to say about this? Were you hoping you would catch them out with them stating ‘Well we didn’t give him any of your credit card details so you dont have to w…. D’oh!’?
Also is this a formal legal request for your information back and if so did you formally direct a request to Cameron Slater as well? If not, why haven’t you made a formal legal request, you are after all a lawyer?
Micky you have no evidence that the Naitonal Party supplied anything to Slater. In fact you have denials from both the President and Slater himself that any such supply took place. The only pseudo-evidence you have is unsubstantiated allegations made by anonymous bloggers and commenters here at the Standard. Unless you’re preparing to have them appear as witnesses in Court to substantiate their claims which I don’t imagine would please them, then you are pushing shit up hill. I realise you are emotionally fraught at the moment but you would be better off blaming the Labour Party for publishing your personal details on the internet rather than trying to be a nuisance to the National Party who will just laugh your silly attention-seeking correspondence away.
Read Pagani’s blog for a human readable version. The logs are pretty clear if you (like we do) have a record of IP’s that access our site and you look at the back trace.
Quite frankly I think that Goodfellow doesn’t know what people in his organization do. After all someone there has been feeding dirt on him to Whale for some time. You perhaps…
Cameron Slater is a serial liar and completely untrustworthy. If he states something is a fact, then the highest probability is that is largely a fabrication. That is quite easy for me to prove, I’d just point to the various lies he has made about me and the organizations I worked for over the years.
If someone wants to sue on that basis, then go right ahead.
Could be me, but I doubt it Lyn since I’m not actually part of the National Party organisation. But I tell you what, if you go and put a disclaimer about all the party associations that your bloggers have you will have a right to make snide remarks about right wing commenters here. But you might want to read your About policy first.
You have interesting IP’s and I have seen them before, which tends to make me suspicious. They are covered by the privacy provisions policy but I do scan them when I start putting people into moderation.
BTW: Since we’re talking about accuracy. My name is Lynn, and my partners name is Lyn. I keep thinking that you’re talking to someone else. Use lprent or Lynn please.
There is no disclaimer there of all the party associations of your bloggers Lyn and I wouldn’t expect them to be such, so if you want to go around insinuating party associations of commenters here that’s your choice because it’s your blog, but don’t expect me to think it’s an intellectually consistent approach to take.
Yes there is. They are of the labour movement. A couple of us are Labour party members. Some are union members. Some have no known memberships but will state who they will vote for. Some bemoan that there is no party they will vote for.
At last count there are 30 odd people who have author rights here. Some haven’t used them for some time but did so extensively in the past. Others have only written a couple of posts. If you want to know what there affiliations are – then stop being so damn lazy and read their posts.
You know I didn’t ask for their associations so stop putting up bloody straw men and then getting all pissy on it when I don’t bite. I said you do not publish the party associations of your bloggers. Saying they are of the “labour movement” is not a disclaimer. Write what you like, it’s your blog. You’ve accused me of being a National Party insider who might pass things onto Whale and I’ve said your wrong. Keep that in mind next time you ban somebody for saying one of your bloggers is a Labour Party apparatchik. In the meantime that is not the topic of this discussion and you know it.
I would say that is a pretty clear disclaimer. It covers everyone who authors here because apart from the small number of original authors, it has been there since just after the site started.
You’re not one of those silly buggers that thinks a site like this can be run out of a political organization are you? Bear in mind that the two Bills, the spout and some of the others are usually pretty trenchant critics of the Labour party. Also I don’t think much of the Greens or anyone left of the right of the Labour Party. That this site could be run by a political party that was always a bit of a jerk-off fantasy by the right bloggers losing readers.
Ah, here we go. The little abrasiveness remarks, ignoring requests for the right name use and the accusations of not being intellectually consistent. Yep.
Don’t let him get to you Iprent. He isn’t worth it.
You seem to be making the mistake of assuming that because you have evidence of Cameron Slater lying in the past that must mean everything he states subsequently must also be a lie AND that the opposite position from what he has stated about something must be the truth. That is hardly a persuassive argument.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact. I think that he doesn’t truly distinguish between them. I’ve even looked at a couple of his posts on weapons, checked the specs and found that his assertions of fact have no basis in reality.
He is a entertaining storyteller for the credulous right, but you can’t rely on what he says because he routinely embellishes facts so they are unrecognizable.
Some of that happens in some authors posts here as well. But generally they clearly distinguish between what is fact and what is their opinion. Apart from anything else we have a far more active comments section with a much wider range of people who comment. Someone from some viewpoint will tear loose statements of fact apart as embarrassingly as possible. Authors learn that pretty fast.
And yes, you’re correct. I assume that anything that Whale says is wrong until proven otherwise. Why? Because my (and probably most peoples) experience of reading his stuff is that the more breathless his claims are, the more likely it is that he fabricated most of it.
I don’t rely on what Cameron Slater states however that doesn’t mean that the opposite must in fact be true. You should still weigh up the balance of probabilities and evidence.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact.
That can also apply to many of the posts here, laughably (or sadly) appearing as extreme propaganda. Just look at the headlines. Those that want them to be true will buy them, but they are hardly going to convince anyone else of a political alternative with any competence.
I know this isn’t a Labour blog – I agree, a party couldn’t do something like this – but a notable proportion of the posts here do nothing to help make Labour look like it has anywhere near recovered from 2008.
Whether the extreme posting comes from Labour or not the perceived link is there and it’s easy to think you wouldn’t want that lot anywhere near the liquor cabinet let alone cabinet in parliament.
The quality of writing you should be concerned about as a budding young politician with 15 years of private sector R&D experience is not at The Standard, it is within the MSM.
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.
He said today National had written to Labour to say it had not passed on any information and did not intend to.”
It does not say that they didn’t instruct Whale about how to get access to it himself. Which is what is being suggested by felix
BTW: Looks like that took Whale some time to get right. The logs show him as being somewhat tentative. Whoever was doing it at the National part was better technically.
You’re the accuser here lyn, you have to prove your case with evidence. You have made assumptions based on plausibility, not inspected evidence and weighed up probabilities. They aren’t the same thing.
Goodfellow also didn’t deny that he was the shooter on the grassy knoll. Are you going to call the FBI to insist they make an arrest?
So far I haven’t even seen any evidence that Slater has done, or will do, anything illegal with the data. If you or somebody else could enlighten me on that I would be very grateful.
What Lynn says (I apologise I’ve been calling him Lyn accidentally) on this is diversion and not backed up by evidence. If you want examples of third party attacks then you only have to look at the attacks that Pagani and Micky did on Simon Lusk and Whale a few weeks back before Trevor got in on the act. And if you are talking about third party attacks on political opponents by proxy then it would be very rich for that allegation to be coming from bloggers here at the Standard.
As for the plausibility of Lynn’s claim of an association between Whale and the National Party, are you fucking serious? Whale fucking hates the National Party, has as far as I know never said anything nice about Goodfellow (in fact he waged a no-holds barred campaign against him) and would quite happily see them stomped into the ground with Act taking their place.
Simon Lusk is someone whose name I did not know until recently. He is implicated in the take over of the ACT party and also the anti MMP campaign. He is high up in the National Party and has significant links to the Beehive and Joyce. His name starts getting mentioned and then PC shows up and takes umbrage at this. Why the sensitivity?
I would not describe comments about Lusk as being “attacks”. He appears to me to be very competent at what he does.
Of course I could speculate at PC’s links to Lusk but lprent would not like it …
You can speculate all you like Micky, just as you speculated on Lusk and his so called high up connections in the Beehive which sound more like more fantasy from you of the kind that had you send the silliest lawyer’s letter to Peter Goodfellow that I have seen in a very long time. I’ve never met the guy and I tend to think if he was such a mover and shaker in the National Party more people would have heard of him.
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.”
Love it, I have a possible vulnerability on my computer so I take the liberty of testing it on somebody elses without their permission. Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
I would say definite comprehension and logical deductive reasoning problems. Have just commented on such to PC on “Silence of the Poodles” .Potty Control would seem to be a more appropriate moniker as a constant self reminder. “Must control pottiness, must control pottiness…….’
Reading about Christchurch Mayor Bob Parker stating he would not continue if he couldn’t have his choice of City Manager struck warning bells in my mind. It sounds like a step along the path to American cronyism.
There a leader (mayor) gets elected, and can sack the administration and bureaucrats of the previous leader and instal his own handpicked people. Our idea has been that the bureaucrats are largely servants of the government working under the law for the people and serving whichever party gets into power in parliament. But they are supposed to be able to offer free and frank advice that is not partial to the leader’s whims and bents. It’s a good idea and it shouldn’t be countenanced to have it subverted.
Your labour party handlers told you to say that when you ran out of lies to distract from Labour breaking the law by not protecting personal data didn’t they felix?
Travellerev if I can go to the effort of correcting myself when I spell Lynn’s name wrong then you can at least go to the effort of spelling my uncle Lynton’s name right. It’s CROSBY.
Yeah, these Labour party handlers are driving me nuts actually Codpiece Potion. I just want to do beat poetry but they’re holding me back and stifling my creativity.
but if we don’t have handlers, how do we know what to say? It’s not like we’d just like honestly believe that the governments objective is just to favour the rich and fuck the country…
Why is Simon Power giving a speech in the General Debate, that focuses on attacking Goff’s leadership?
Oh and Finlayson is accusing Labour MPs of engaging in trivialities like flame wars & cycle races.
Yes, it seems to be a constant diversionary activity for National to bash Goff.
Surely Finlayson can’t be serious, accusing Labour of not being serious about the important and urgent politics because they do blogging stuff, and cycle rides. Meanwhile, where is JonKey? Dancing awkwardly down a fashion runway? Joking his way from one photo op to the next? And as for his stand-up routine that he used to deliver his budget speech?
Carol, the problem with mud slinging from the Nats regarding Goff is that mud just may be slung back. What a dirty tricks election it is going to be. The Nats have to watch their back as they never know when a blogger will pull them up for a similar thing they are accusing a Labour MP about.
Since about 21.00 last night, I have been reading newspaper clippings I had put in a big envelope dated from 1989 to 1996. I am very depressed to see that everything NACT are doing has been done before – in 1984-99. some changes are so long standing that I had forgotten things were ever different. Yellow Buses for instance – have been owned by the international company Stagecoach since at least 1993, yet I had forgotten that they were ever Government (or Council) owned until among my clippings I found a heap of objections to Jenny Schippelfat selling Yellow Buses off…. It is mega-depressing that it’s all deja vu all over again – the same anti-bemeficiary letters to the Ed., the same replies – the same think tanks putting their ideas forward. It’s all worse now though – in 1991-2, there was great indignation about DPB women being work-tested when their youngest child was 7 years old. Good grief, that was bad enough…. One thing I have noticed – I came across only one reference to DPB women ‘breeding for a living”. Maybe that meme hadn’t got started then, or it wasn’t widespread? Or maybe I just didn’t save in this inadvertent time capsule, any reference to it?
The more we change the more we stay the same. Your research is a bit depressing isn’t it Vicky. Sad to think that the population isn’t outraged by the thought of “making” mothers go back to work when the child is 12 months. Remember when Key suggested 6 years last year? He got away with that and so they seem hell bent on getting away with the sooner.
Wonder how many mothers (fathers?) on DPB would be affected and how many kids?
Oh yes, it’s deeply depressing! (I still have more clippings to go through, I am deciding what to get rid of, as I will one way or another, possibly, I hope, be moving soon!) It’s amazing how much rubbish one accumulates over 15 years in the same dump!) The scary thing is that in all those years, nothing has permanently changed…, (From 1999 to 2008, it did, but the changes didn’t stick..)
Boiling of frogs springs to mind. People now accept things they would have argued against in the 90s…
Green Party MP Metiria Turei asked some very important questions of John Key in Parliament today. Once again, the Prime Minister wasn’t there so Bill English tried to answer for the absentee leader.
In one particular answer given by the flailing Bill English, he said that the Government was helping to reduce the huge divide between the haves and have-nots ie disparity by improving immunisation and the Green’s inspired home insulation scheme. He must be joking!
Anyone watching Back Benchers? Simon Bridges seems to be having a hard time tonight, he looks tired and all of his yelling and talking over of others is quite telling. Big ups to Wallace Chapman who’s done an excellent job in tolerating his behaviour all night.
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Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is questioning why, for the second time, Jacinda Ardern has appointed a Crown-owned company Chief Executive to Chair her “Business Advisory Council”, following her announcement that Mercury CEO Fraser Whineray ...
Responding to the Government’s decision to give around $300 million to Amazon as a sweetener for filming a TV series in New Zealand, New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Louis Houlbrooke says: “As a matter of simple waste, this is striking, ...
I am very pleased with Air New Zealand’s Decision to backdown and withdraw their application to trademark into a logo Kia Ora. I said at the time that it was an ill conceived idea and poorly thought out – more importantly it should never have been ...
NZEI Te Riu Roa members will be joining with others across the union movement by wearing black and white in support of pay equity on Suffrage Day tomorrow, and urging the Government to commit to a settlement for teacher aides this year. ...
Yesterday’s announcement from the Minister for Immigration, to improve temporary work visas for migrant workers, provides some positive changes but more detail is needed. The Council of Trade Unions fundamentally supports the principle of making ...
FIRST Union today welcomed Westpac’s public admission of the significant gender pay gap in its workforce and reiterated its call for employers to work with unions to close this disparity, arguing that this work must begin at the bottom of the pay ...
Changes to the work visa system announced by the Minister of Immigration are not all positive for employers or migrants, comments Ms June Ranson, chair of the New Zealand Association for Migration and Investment (NZAMI) , a leading voice in the ...
The Dairy Workers Union (DWU) has welcomed the announcement from dairy company, Synlait, that they will be boosting parental leave entitlements significantly for working parents. ...
In June, the Children’s Commissioner announced a thematic review into Oranga Tamariki’s policies, processes and practice relating to care and protection issues for tamariki Māori aged 0-3 months. Today the Children’s Commissioner has released the full ...
“Closing the Gap” Tauranga, one of the area groups of Income Equality Aotearoa NZ Inc., has surveyed all candidates in the three local body elections to discover attitudes to some basic issues of the Western Bay region. We believe that this is ...
In response to DairyNZ's attempt to dismiss an economic report that highlighted dairy's role in the New Zealand economy is only three per cent of GDP, Fish & Game New Zealand Chief Executive Martin Taylor says: "If DairyNZ wishes to reject a report ...
Kiingi Tuuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero VII has successfully guided the mana whenua of lhumaatao to reach a consensus on the future of their whenua. ...
Two activists disguised as shareholders interrupted the AGM of a gold mining company in central Auckland this morning to inform shareholders their plans to mine for gold in conservation estate in the Karangahake Gorge were unwelcome. ...
The Capital and Coast District Health Board (CCDHB) has been labelled ‘NATO’ (no action, talk only) when it comes to child mental health, with just 0.6 full time staff (24 hours per week) for inpatient child psychology and just 0.8 full time staff ...
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL has awarded three New Zealand climate youth groups with its Ambassador of Conscience award, its highest recognition for human rights work, previously given to the likes of Nelson Mandela, Ai Weiwei and Malala Yousafzai. ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers' Union , in partnership with the Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance , has today published this year's Ratepayers' Report – online local government league tables – at www.ratepayersreport.nz . ...
NZUS Council executive director Jordan Small welcomes the news New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern will meet with US President Donald Trump in New York next week. ...
The recent NZIER report trivialises the significant role the dairy sector plays in New Zealand’s economy – and fails to look at the specifics of the Government’s freshwater package, according to DairyNZ. DairyNZ chief executive Dr Tim Mackle said ...
This week, the New Zealand Parliament and the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) will jointly host a seminar on tackling the global spread of illicit weapons. ...
In a landmark judgment issued this morning, the Court of Appeal confirmed that the Southern Response Concealment Class Action will proceed issued on an "opt out” basis. ...
Mainstream media, as the purveyors of truth and source of balanced information, took another backward step today with the announcement by Stuff that most New Zealand organisations had joined 170 media outlets from around the world in the “Covering ...
The goal of one million Kiwis having basic conversations in te reo by 2040 is unrealistic if more is not done to get serious about reo acquisition says the Māori Party. “While small steps have been taken to bolster efforts to increase the numbers of speakers, ...
Changes announced today by the Immigration Minister to employer-assisted visas will help businesses, but more work is needed to boost economic growth says Business Central. ...
DairyNZ Chief Executive Dr Tim Mackle is welcoming today’s announcement that the Government will be streamlining the employer assisted work visa process to help businesses and farms fill skills shortages. ...
Lawrence Yule MP wrote to our Office with concerns about the Department of Corrections' approach to procuring design and build services for rapid deployment of prison accommodation. We have published our response to Mr Yule on our website . ...
That from the chair of the Wellington Region of the College of Midwives, Siobhan Connor, following the news that Hutt Valley District Health Board is targeting midwives from overseas to help fill gaps in maternity units. ...
70% of New Zealand’s surface water take is allocated to Meridian’s Manapouri Power Scheme. But when Environment Minister David Parker asked to exempt the Scheme from his Freshwater Action Plan, he didn’t tell Cabinet that. ...
The Independent Police Conduct Authority has found that officers responded in a timely and appropriate manner as soon as they were aware that a fleeing driver had hit a pedestrian. ...
prevention and intervention. Following Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s post-Cabinet press conference we are encouraged to see the acknowledgement of the mistakes made and the need to address this. The five points outlined in the action plan, which ...
A surge in teen vaping rates and a series of deaths being linked to vaping has resulted in a number of bans on the sales of flavoured Vape juice products in the United States. Though it is widely acknowledged that vaping is far less harmful than smoking tobacco, ...
The governments’ new environmental proposals will further accentuate the move of good, productive farmland into forestry according to environmental lobby group 50 Shades of Green. ...
17 September 2019: New Zealanders are acutely aware of the impact food production processes have on our planet according to new research released today by the 5+ A Day Charitable Trust. ...
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL is awarding three New Zealand climate youth groups with its Ambassador of Conscience award, its highest recognition for human rights work, previously given to the likes of Nelson Mandela, Ai Weiwei and Malala Yousafzai. ...
On 14 September 2017, the pipeline that brings diesel, petrol, and jet fuel from Marsden Point Oil Refinery into Auckland ruptured. It leaked jet fuel into rural properties and stopped the transmission of fuels into Auckland for 10 days. The rupture ...
Victims Advocate Louise Nicholas - Labour should have brought in “specialist support” “When there is a complaint especially a serious complaint of sexual assault, the first thing that should have happened was specialist support brought in to ensure ...
Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods says New Zealand is ‘not close’ to bringing in oil reserves after the attack on Saudi fields. “We would have to see prices rise by about $20 per barrel in order for some of those strategic reserves ...
New Zealand's new fresh water regulation rules will have no major impacts on the national economy, according to an independent report just out. The report by independent economic consultancy New Zealand Institute of Economic Research shows that dairying ...
Fish & Game New Zealand has welcomed the findings of a New Zealand Institute of Economic Research report, which rejects claims the Government’s freshwater proposals will have a significant economic impact. ...
The Council of Licensed Firearms Owners (COLFO) says the Government should take its proposed firearms legislation to the people with a touring Select Committee, as it just has with the Zero Carbon bill. ...
Water reforms and the long term sustainability of water will be a key focus at the Water New Zealand conference and expo this week (18-20 September) in Hamilton. ...
“Kiwi ex-smokers are mobilising against the Government’s plans to drastically limit vaping flavours. Flavours have been key to them quitting tobacco and they now just want other smokers to have the same chance,” says Jonathan Devery, co-owner ...
Oil company Tamarind Resources has reportedly halted drilling at its Tui oil field off the Taranaki coast after the first of the three planned wells came up dry and bad weather caused delays. ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is calling on the left-wing campaign group “ActionStation” to front up and be transparent about how much taxpayer funding it takes from the Government to underwrite its activism activities. Earlier in the month, the Taxpayers’ ...
The ‘ Unplanned ’ movie is here and Family First has secured one of the first screenings in New Zealand tonight. ‘Unplanned’ brings an eye-opening look inside the abortion industry from a woman who was once its most passionate advocate. All ...
James Renwick claim that NZ is failing on climate change is valid, and since James has been receiving widespread media coverage that we outline most of it again here now as we gear up for the ‘Global climate change conference’ beginning next week. ...
Protestors will be outside the venue of the fourth hearing for Operation Burnham Inquiry on Monday morning from 8.30am to give a message to former and current military officers as they arrive to speak about the ongoing coverup of the 2010 attack on ...
Covering Climate Now: Alex Casey watches 2040, a climate change documentary determined to let the light in. I’ve seen enough documentaries about climate change to know what I don’t want to see anymore. I don’t want Leonardo DiCaprio stroking his goatee on a sheet of ice and saying “folks: it’s bad”. ...
Covering Climate Now: We need to broaden our measures of success if we want to have any chance of reaching blunt targets for reducing emissions, writes Catherine Leining.The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible thanks to Spinoff Members. Join us here!Since 1992, multiple rounds of greenhouse gas ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has acknowledged the Labour sexual assault scandal risks hurting New Zealand's reputation on the world stage as she heads abroad. ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has acknowledged the Labour sexual assault scandal risks hurting New Zealand's reputation on the world stage as she heads abroad. ...
Pacific Media Centre Newsdesk Thousands of forest fires have been burning across Indonesian Borneo and Sumatra, disrupting air travel, closing schools and sickening thousands of people, reports the New York Times. Officials have said that about 80 per cent of the fires were intentionally set to make room for lucrative ...
After over a month of discussions, Kiingitanga has announced that mana whenua at Ihumātao want to keep the land. Fletcher Buildings still owns it, so what comes next in the movement to protect Ihumātao?After over a month of discussion between divided mana whenua over the land at Ihumātao, the Māori ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.Climate change Sharon Murdoch (Stuff): 4000 Days: A climate change story where you choose the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kevin Orrman-Rossiter, PhD Research Student, History & Philosophy of Science, University of Melbourne If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, send it to curiouskids@theconversation.edu.au.How big is the International Space Station? – Isla, aged 6, Australia. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle O’Shea, Lecturer Sport Management, Western Sydney University In March this year, photographer Michael Willson captured an image of AFL footballer Tayla Harris kicking for a goal. The image shows Harris in athletic flight, right leg extended skyward and muscles flexed as ...
It’s a hard road getting attention for outsider candidates in local elections. Alex Braae, writer of The Bulletin and stout defender of the political little guy, thought he’d lend a hand by moderating a rebel Wellington mayoral debate.The Spinoff local election coverage is made possible thanks to The SpinoffMembers. For more ...
Covering Climate Now: A midweek update from the Spinoffers who have ditched dairy (and eggs, and meat, and fish…) for the week. The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible thanks to Spinoff Members. Join us here!Read this for the background on what this plant-based palaver is all about.Three ...
Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere is defending his use of the words "sieg heil" during last night's lively political debate with Phil Goff, despite being lambasted for it on social media. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Belinda Xie, Scientia PhD Scholar, School of Psychology, UNSW This story is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than 250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story. This Friday in the lead-up to the United Nations ...
Covering Climate Now: It’s easy to indulge in the idea that individual actions can’t have an impact on climate change. But a few simple ideas from economics show how wrong that is, argues Waikato University lecturer in environmental economics Zach Dorner.The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Renwick, Professor, Physical Geography (climate science), Victoria University of Wellington CC BY-NDClimate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Laurenceson, Acting Director and Professor, Australia-China Relations Institute (ACRI), University of Technology Sydney Last week’s Asian-Australian Leadership Summit in Melbourne saw the release of valuable new survey data on the discrimination some Australians face. A survey conducted by the Australian National ...
Last night Auckland mayoral contender John Tamihere said “sieg heil” when answering a question on diversity. Sadly that has forced us to put together a cheat sheet on how not to say Nazi phrases in debates.About one hour and 18 minutes into a pub politics debate at Chapel Bar on ...
In a special video interview ahead of the big UN Climate Action Summit, UN Secretary General Antonion Guterres says he is hopeful rather than desperate in the face of the climate emergency. ...
The Future of Work at Hutt City’s Dowse Art Museum makes visible our changing work conditions. Mark Amery took a tour, and even got some work done himself while he was there.I’ve gone to work at the gallery. And I’m making an exhibition of myself. Making my labour visible. I’m ...
The Bay of Plenty Regional Council was the first in New Zealand to vote in Māori ward seats. This election, the region’s longest-standing Māori councillor is up against some fierce competition from a former broadcaster who’s already put his skills to use in a viral video.The Spinoff local election coverage ...
With only a few more sleeps until the 2019 Rugby World Cup, Tara Ward looks at the variety of ways you can watch the tournament from the comfort of your own home.Set your clocks, sound the alarms and gird your scrum-loving loins for the 2019 Rugby World Cup, which kicks ...
Covering Climate Now: As part of The Spinoff’s commitment to Covering Climate Now, the food section has gone vegan. Today, a delicious recipe to herald the arrival of spring. The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible thanks to Spinoff Members. Join us here!Roman-style vignarolahas great appeal at ...
Covering Climate Now: Connecting your everyday choices at the supermarket to a crisis half a world away might be a hard concept get your head around, but we all have power to effect change, writes Hannah McGowan.The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible thanks to Spinoff Members. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Haskell-Dowland, Associate Dean (Computing and Security), Edith Cowan University When we think of a bank robbery, we might imagine a safe with the door blown open. But nowadays it might be more accurate to picture criminals accessing our bank account online ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Kenny, Senior Fellow, Australian Studies Institute, Australian National University In the hit biopic Rocket Man, the ambitious young Reginald Dwight is counselled to hide his working-class roots if he wants to make it in “showbiz”: You gotta kill the person ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katie Attwell, Senior Lecturer, University of Western Australia Countries around the world, including Australia, are using different ways to get parents to vaccinate their children. Our new research, published this week in the journal Milbank Quarterly, looks at diverse mandatory vaccination policies ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bill Hare, Director, Climate Analytics, Adjunct Professor, Murdoch University (Perth), Visiting scientist, Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research This piece is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than 250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nathalie Collins, Academic Director (National Programs), Edith Cowan University The hit sitcom Friends aired for the first time 25 years ago this week. Ross, Rachel, Monica, Chandler, Phoebe and Joey have not aged on our small screen – and neither has their ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Hall, Senior Researcher in Politics, Auckland University of Technology This story is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than 250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story. As a new sense of urgency to act ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Love, Hon Senior Fellow, Transport Health and Urban Design (THUD) Melbourne School of Design, University of Melbourne The Spanish city of Barcelona has pioneered an innovative approach to managing traffic, freeing up public space and promoting walking and cycling. The “superblocks” ...
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Govt makes business-friendly migrant worker changes, PM off overseas to talk trade, and the cost of Christchurch water in China revealed.A range of changes around the immigration system have been announced, reports Newshub. Among the biggest headline grabbers was the decision that ...
A group representing migrant workers says the government's overhaul of work visas has failed to remove a clause that means they can be treated like modern day slaves. ...
Open mike 15/06/2011 
We surveyed candidates on their attitudes to issues facing the Western Bay Region, find out what they think: “Closing the Gap” Tauranga, one of the area groups of Income Equality Aotearoa NZ Inc., has surveyed all candidates in the three local body elections to discover attitudes to some basic issues ...4 hours ago
Please spread widely, and sign, to support science and rationalism over the new irrationalism sweeping universities and institutions. PROJECT NETTIE Sexual reproduction, the generation of offspring by fusion of genetic material from two different individuals, evolved over 1 billion years ago. It is the reproductive strategy of all higher animals ...5 hours ago
Just when I was thinking that Palmerston North's mayoral race (which includes a convicted child molester / public wanker and a convicted child beater) was the worst in the country, Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere opened his mouth:Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere is being slammed for using the words "sieg ...6 hours ago
Why is New Zealand climate change policy so crap? The Herald this morning has a long article on the twists and turns of climate change policy in New Zealand [paywalled / depaywall script], which shows where we've been. The short version is that the government first began worrying about this ...9 hours ago
The All Blacks have been, for more than a century, arguably the most successful International sports team in the world. But they are more than that; even for those Kiwis who are immune to the charms of rugby (and there are more than a few), the All Blacks are ambassadors ...11 hours ago
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In times of hysteria about the “World coming to an end” and “rising sea levels” so-called ‘Journalists’ who can barely spell words longer than four letters are having a ball! Though the majority of the Public have worked out that manmade climate change is nothing short of pseudo-science, and the ...2 days ago
2 days ago
Dangerous Foes: For those readers of Bowalley Road who feel disposed to dismiss any prospect of an Israeli destabilisation of New Zealand politics, the example of the United Kingdom repays close attention. Ever since the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the British Labour Party, the Israelis have sanctioned, funded and ...2 days ago
Make It 16, the youth-led campaign to lower New Zealand's voting age, is holding an official campaign launch at Parliament this Friday from 16:30. If you'd like to attend, you can register using EventBrite here. ...2 days ago
by Don Franks It was a lovely sunny Wellington afternoon with blue skies above the beaches. In Courtenay Place, political activists packed out a stuffy upstairs room for an important meeting. The assembled pacifists, anarchists, communists and independent young radicals of Peace Action Wellington felt the need for a mission ...2 days ago
From the Wall Street Journal:Inside a room of the ornately decorated Hotel du Palais during last month’s Group of Seven summit in Biarritz, France, President Trump awaited a meeting with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in ...3 days ago
. . This blogpost is different to my usual format of reporting on issues… Since July 1011, I have blogged on a variety of political issues; near always political and/or environmental; mostly highly critical of the previous National Government. Other issues included Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and repression of ...4 days ago
Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...5 days ago
Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...6 days ago
By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...6 days ago
Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...6 days ago
By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...1 week ago
Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ... 1 week ago
An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...1 week ago
There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...1 week ago
Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...1 week ago
During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...1 week ago
Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...1 week ago
Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...1 week ago
Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua. Nothing else helped her. If I ...1 week ago
Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...1 week ago
Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...2 weeks ago
Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...2 weeks ago
Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...2 weeks ago
Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ... 2 weeks ago
The New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is questioning why, for the second time, Jacinda Ardern has appointed a Crown-owned company Chief Executive to Chair her “Business Advisory Council”, following her announcement that Mercury CEO Fraser Whineray ...2 hours ago
Covering Climate Now: Alex Casey watches 2040, a climate change documentary determined to let the light in. I’ve seen enough documentaries about climate change to know what I don’t want to see anymore. I don’t want Leonardo DiCaprio stroking his goatee on a sheet of ice and saying “folks: it’s bad”. ...26 mins ago
Jacinda Ardern flies to New York with hope of action on the Christchurch Call and climate change. ...54 mins ago
Covering Climate Now: We need to broaden our measures of success if we want to have any chance of reaching blunt targets for reducing emissions, writes Catherine Leining.The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible thanks to Spinoff Members. Join us here!Since 1992, multiple rounds of greenhouse gas ...2 hours ago
A Christchurch mayoral candidate is campaigning on environmental sustainability, but some of his hospitality businesses doesn't recycle. ...2 hours ago
Without targets, the Government will have a difficult task in defining whether the gun buyback is successful. Some say it’s impossible. ...3 hours ago
Pacific Media Centre Newsdesk Thousands of forest fires have been burning across Indonesian Borneo and Sumatra, disrupting air travel, closing schools and sickening thousands of people, reports the New York Times. Officials have said that about 80 per cent of the fires were intentionally set to make room for lucrative ...4 hours ago
The government has announced a plan to turn aquaculture into a $3 billion industry within 15 years. ...4 hours ago
After over a month of discussions, Kiingitanga has announced that mana whenua at Ihumātao want to keep the land. Fletcher Buildings still owns it, so what comes next in the movement to protect Ihumātao?After over a month of discussion between divided mana whenua over the land at Ihumātao, the Māori ...4 hours ago
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kevin Orrman-Rossiter, PhD Research Student, History & Philosophy of Science, University of Melbourne If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, send it to curiouskids@theconversation.edu.au. How big is the International Space Station? – Isla, aged 6, Australia. ...4 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle O’Shea, Lecturer Sport Management, Western Sydney University In March this year, photographer Michael Willson captured an image of AFL footballer Tayla Harris kicking for a goal. The image shows Harris in athletic flight, right leg extended skyward and muscles flexed as ...5 hours ago
It’s a hard road getting attention for outsider candidates in local elections. Alex Braae, writer of The Bulletin and stout defender of the political little guy, thought he’d lend a hand by moderating a rebel Wellington mayoral debate.The Spinoff local election coverage is made possible thanks to The Spinoff Members. For more ...5 hours ago
The difference between what the country earns and spends overseas has narrowed slightly. ...5 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Belinda Xie, Scientia PhD Scholar, School of Psychology, UNSW This story is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than 250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story. This Friday in the lead-up to the United Nations ...5 hours ago
Covering Climate Now: It’s easy to indulge in the idea that individual actions can’t have an impact on climate change. But a few simple ideas from economics show how wrong that is, argues Waikato University lecturer in environmental economics Zach Dorner.The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible ...7 hours ago
Listed property investment company Goodman Property Trust is looking to raise up to $175 million through a share issue for future developments. ...7 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Renwick, Professor, Physical Geography (climate science), Victoria University of Wellington CC BY-NDClimate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like ...7 hours ago
Curbing foreign political donations is the easy bit of the Chinese equation. ...7 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Laurenceson, Acting Director and Professor, Australia-China Relations Institute (ACRI), University of Technology Sydney Last week’s Asian-Australian Leadership Summit in Melbourne saw the release of valuable new survey data on the discrimination some Australians face. A survey conducted by the Australian National ...7 hours ago
Last night Auckland mayoral contender John Tamihere said “sieg heil” when answering a question on diversity. Sadly that has forced us to put together a cheat sheet on how not to say Nazi phrases in debates.About one hour and 18 minutes into a pub politics debate at Chapel Bar on ...7 hours ago
In a special video interview ahead of the big UN Climate Action Summit, UN Secretary General Antonion Guterres says he is hopeful rather than desperate in the face of the climate emergency. ...7 hours ago
Kathmandu's full year profit beat its expectations with strong sales and profit growth. ...8 hours ago
The Future of Work at Hutt City’s Dowse Art Museum makes visible our changing work conditions. Mark Amery took a tour, and even got some work done himself while he was there.I’ve gone to work at the gallery. And I’m making an exhibition of myself. Making my labour visible. I’m ...8 hours ago
The Bay of Plenty Regional Council was the first in New Zealand to vote in Māori ward seats. This election, the region’s longest-standing Māori councillor is up against some fierce competition from a former broadcaster who’s already put his skills to use in a viral video.The Spinoff local election coverage ...9 hours ago
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I wonder what today will bring us?…..
1. More revelations about Labour stealing from the public purse.
2. More diversionary tactics from Labour sycophants here at the Standard.
3. And more impiortantly…the public further reinforce their belief that Labour could not run a shower let alone a government.
Sort your act out guys, this nation needs a strong opposition, we simply cannot afford another term of Labour lite policies from Neville Key and the Nat’s.
Force Neville back to the right, only then can we hope to build a strong economy, one strong enough to withstand another Labour government (in about nine years)
I wonder what today will bring?
More visits from well known RWNJs and new posters that we have never heard of before. More incessant chantings of slogans along the lines of “Labour Bad”. More claims that the taking of data from a crippled server was somehow authorised.
No doubt the debate will be heated and no one’s opinions will be changed.
Of course we could always DNFTT.
Is that all you have Micky?
Normally you can put together a fairly reasoned (all be it wrong) argument, I guess even you have been forced to concede that Labour are as guilty as sin when it comes to stealing public funds.
Tell me mate, why is it that you lot think you have the right to steal my money whenever you fancy?
[Blatant trolling. A repeat will not be tolerated. Final warning…RL]
I can’t speak for “you lot” whoever that is, but I can think of a few good reasons to take what little money you have left.
High on the list: to save prostitutes from having to endure your tedious company.
If someone has been stealing your money you should lay a complaint with the cops bruv.
ha ha….feeling a bit caught out are you RL?
Feeling a bit guilty on behalf of your Labour party sycophants?
Earth calling Planet Bruv….any intellegent life there?????????????? Thought not.
If you ever had any doubts about the Casino nature of the economy as RWNJs want it try this headline from the NY Times this morning..Markets Turn Up Sharply After Release of Retail Data
Apparently the markets gained 1% on news that data was bad BUT not as bad as expected. Go figure. It is the sort of mentality that drives Keys economic vision, pray and hope and talk up what is a very bad story.
Theres been interesting data coming out of everywhere. Seems to be a surge of demand in NZ in the last two months. I’ve definitely noticed it.
Indeed, our primary outputs are going to be highly in demand whilst there is still some liquidity in the world. Commentary from http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/ has repeatedly got the indicators right, they suggest the world economy will have increasingly sharp swings up and down with the average being slow decline. Interesting times.
That would indicate a correction, not an decline forever.
The graphics remind me of this.
http://macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bubblesandmanias.gif
The line indicating value on the graph is OK if you assume unlimited growth and available resources…take the resource availability out consumption comes down, and with it true value.This is what we now face.
I don’t know why bad data, but not as bad as expected, somehow surprised you when the market rallies?
They ‘price in’ what they expect the results of every report will be. Then, if the report comes out as expected, the market barely moves. If it comes out differently, the market will move towards the new position.
Nothing casino-like at all. Simple rational behaviour of markets, really.
Yesterday lprent said to me:
If the level of mudslinging, vitriol, hate and intolerance we have in our politics is seen as an essential part of a “healthy democracy” it’s no wonder our society has more than a few rough edges.
It’s in part the example set by the Dogs of Blogs, Bitches of Parties.
And part of the family of violence. (from Liberation”
PeteG, we might want to consider that vitriol and extreme positions go hand in hand with a society under increasing stress. The party that was the last 30 years is over, the “economy”if you can call it that now faces the long slow decline that will parallel resouce depletion (energy in particular). There are no magic bullets, no immediate cure, or way back ever. Its gone. Bleak indeed.
The cosy assumptions of the middle classes are crumbling before their eyes, no financial institution is to be trusted, no long term future based on what we are used to can be trusted. Those who own most are grasping to own more, those with least are getting less. So we will fight one another for the diminishing remains of what is left. Dont expect it to be “nice”, it is too visceral for that.
I think we have to fight against going down that path.
I agree, but I fear we might already be into the second round throwing punches wildly.
You forgot to put in the reason why I said that. As I recall I described it quite vividly.
Just think, there is very little conflict in the democracy in Fiji right now. Is that what you’re after?
Well he has indicated a desire that all parties get behind the government.
I guess it might sound a bit strange to some to expect that all our elected reprentatives should actually represent us and work together for the good of the country rather than ignore the people that voted for them, barricade themselves in party factions and try and bring each other down by any means they can think of, more foul than fair.
Doesn’t it seem strange that we seem to accept a “democracy” where the main opposition party doesn’t accept the democrat vote of the election and instead devotes itself to trying to bring the government down?
That sounds like actively encouraged desperate for power sedition to me, not democracy.
Ya big galloon, the people that voted for the opposition deserve representation in parliament too.
Opposition to The Party is sedition now, Pete?
Continually trying to bring a government down is, isn’t it?
You know very well I don’t support single party rule. That’s just another of your attempts at devious and blatant misrepresentation.
I support multiple healthy parties who can work together for the good of the country (which they do at select committee level now anyway) but can still have differences and debates on issues.
Have differences and debates and then get behind the government.
You’re getting clearer.
“You know very well I don’t support single party rule. “
Actually I don’t, Pete. I know you say that, but every time we drill down through your ideas about representation we run into this brick wall that you just don’t seem to be able to see over.
Here’s an example: /drug-peddlers/#comment-330885
Perhaps you’re ready to answer the question at the “end” of that interchange now, and we can find out once and for all what it is you believe.
Who’s this “we” you are referring to? Who are you working with?
You don’t give me the impression you want to understand what I think.
You give me the impression you want to eliminate posts you don’t want here. Under favourable protection you try to exclude who you don’t want on the blog.
By “we” I just mean myself and the other commenters who have tried at length to get you to examine your ideas a little more closely. I’m only speaking for myself, but acknowledging that I’m not the only one who has put these questions to you.
Would you like to change the subject again or are you going to try to answer the question now?
Awww, where’d you go Pete? (again)
Seems it’s always at this exact point in our conversations (the point where I ask you the question you can’t face) that you disappear for the day.
I’m beginning to have serious doubts about your level of commitment to an inclusive, open, consultative model of governance, Pete.
I have other things to do sometimes felix, I’m not perpetually in thrall of your quaint manoeverings.
Politicians should be prepared to justify their actions to all voters.
I notice in that exchange that I made it clear (again) that I don’t support a one party state. Most of you “assumptions” there were incorrect, but that’s what you seem to like doing.
I support a multi party state where the parties don’t always try and destroy each other.
A question for you – do you accept that I don’t support a one party state?
Pete, I won’t know until you answer the question at the bottom of that thread.
Just think, there is very little conflict in the democracy in Fiji right now.
What democracy?
Hey Pete, how come you keep comin round here tryin to start fights and bein all ornery about things?
Usin words like ‘dogs’ and ‘bitches’ and stuff.
Robust democratic debate 🙂
And because if I said things like “please can our politicians and their heavies behave a bit more civilly and set a better example” it tends to get ignored.
Parties need jolting out of their self obsession with power at any price. Blogs aid and abet their charade of democracy, aka desparate clinging to power by any means.
Yeah everyone should just shut up and let you* make all the decisions then, for the good of democracy.
*Yes yes, I know I heard you the last time. You have a new and improved method of politics where people you listen to will talk to you and you’ll do what they tell you. Sounds like something I’d hate, sorry.
So what to do?
Don’t you know? PeteG is the one destined to bring balance back to the Force.
Pete I have no great love or respect for our parliamentarians, however, in their defense our parliamentary system is set up and designed to be oppositional in nature so as to ensure a positive and negative position on all issues are vigorously debated while this can lead to the childish and hateful behaviour we often seen in parliament it is a reasonable price to pay for having a democracy.
Oppositional is fine, we need that. But I think our parties go much further than “oppositional”.
We can have opposition and denbate without having to resort to the levels of mudslinging, blatant dishonesty and illegality (or stretching the rules to suit) that we get far too much of.
Don’t you see the difference?
Oh I agree with all that, I was pretty much backing up lprent’s view that if we suddenly had an outbreak of agreement on everything from the politicians we should all be very worried indeed.
No, we need to encourage diverse views.
All I’m suggesting is we shouldn’t have to accept so much arsehole behaviour and nasty tactics.
It’s no better than accepting kicking someone’s head in after the bar has closed because that’s what you do when you’re tanked up.
…arsehole behaviour and nasty tactics.
I consider that those would be where people are getting killed, tortured, jailed, disappeared or having the shit beaten out of them. When you look outside democracies that is what you see. When you look at sham ‘democracies’ like Fiji, that is what you see. In fact that appears to be the norm for the political process over the centuries.
The penalty cost for having a vaguely democratic system like ours is that you allow minorities and dissidents room to have a voice without getting killed (etc) is that the process is noisy. The noisiness appears to be what you’re objecting to.
I suspect you have lived a sheltered existence and could do to get out more amongst different cultures to see how they handle their political systems. You don’t even have to leave the country. I’d suggest that you do what I did at age 18 and go in the army. The culture was quite different to what I was used to, and soldiers there had a far far clearer appreciation of a free society looked like than you do.
PeteG – Denbate – is that some sort of rodent extermination material?
Time to change from our Westminster system of parliament you say?
No. We just have to use the system we’ve got better.
And not allow our politicians to abuse it so much.
Its the Westminster system. Oppositional and adversarial is what it was founded on.
But feel free to try and change the trimmings around the edges.
Why can’t Radio NZ leave the Darren Hughes affair alone? This morning they were trying (again) to make Phil Goff look bad over it. Are CT worried that Phil is increasingly like a better alternative than the donkey, et al. Move along.
[Deleted. Despicable smear-mongering. A repeat will earn a long ban…RL]
How is it smear mongering? He was under the influence of something, I didn’t say it was Darren that had anything to do with it. I’m merely pointing out the reason why charges were not laid. This was reported by the way.
[lprent: Whatever it was, I’d guess that you just failed to put in the link. Silly you. But I suspect that you made up your own story and didn’t put in a link to something reputable because it didn’t support you interpretation – right?.
Don’t be daft. If you want to make a statement of fact or insinuation of fact, then you need to support it. Otherwise we’ll treat it as trolling. ]
What is CT short for and how exactly is he, she, or it meant to be able to influence Radio NZ National editorial policy?
Crosby Textor – a hybrid organism that infects the brain stem of weak minded egoists who believe that some people are simply better than others because they own more shit.
CT? Try Crosby Textor the hoodwink experts John Key and the rest of his nasty little crowd get their daily spin lines from. Read the Hollow Men.
Okay then, so how is an Australian PR agency meant to influence the editorial decisions of Radio NZ National?
really, you are going with feigning ignorance?
…and you seem to be going with the ‘I don’t need to actually provide any evidence or even justify my position because I just know it is so’ approach.
One typical CT tactic is to provide news organisations with easy access to selective “facts”, specific framing/languaging and acceptable people to interview.
And with news organisations having to do more on less and less, its a quick easy way for them to get some content out there without working too hard.
I just heardv on 3 News Fatty Garner putting his view on the Darren Hughes event as if it were fact… pretty much as he usually does, in fact… 🙁
mickeysavage, is it true that you sent a whiny missive to Peter Goodfellow of National complaining about Cameron Slater and worrying about whether he had your credit card details?
Wouldn’t that be like someone on the right complaining to the Labour party about the antics of someone from The Standard? I’m sure you would agree that the Standard boys and girls cannot be dictated to by Labour Party head office yet you seem to think Cameron Slater can. Truly Bizarre.
Anyway I thought the Labour party has already stated that the credit card information was on another properly protected server and nothing was compromised? Don’t you trust the Labour party hierarchy on this?
People have done that a couple of times to us as well.
However, the National party’s IP’s are all over the access logs long before Slater touched it. It would appear that the National party could have a copies of some Labour party data, and it looks highly likely that someone in the National Party tipped off their poodle. So yes you may know what you told your poodle to collect.
But I suggest you look at the Privacy Act. It has some interesting provisions for organisations having to disclose any information that they hold on individuals.
So is Cameron working for ACT or National ……….. or is he actually responsible for 9/11?
Perhaps he’s just a political junkie who revels in poking opposing political junkies, politicians and political parties with a stick ……… seems to be good therapy for him.
None of those are necessarily mutually exclusive of course (just sayin is all…)
I suspect reverse vampire involvement.
Reverse vampire involvement, yes, but behind it all I suspect a cabal of born to rule werewolves.
“Congress tart !”
Where can I find one of those? 😉
Now that was silly wasn’t it, HS? But you’re not alone. 48% of all New Yorkers are wondering the same thing.
Jeez Travellerev you can’t stop yourself can you? lol!
Cowboy hat boy. Shush. you are so silly.
I bet if the question was: “Would you support a new $400m investigation into WTC7 collapse?” the answer would have been a lot more negative.
In other words, if you give stuff away for free, even if it’s stuff people don’t really care about, they’ll gladly accept it. If you charge them for it, you’ll get a low fewer takers.
ROFL, Fuck, rare earth man talk about a warped argument.
I’ll tell you what; if the choice is let’s get to the bottom of why a perfectly well build 47 story steel framed high rise collapsed after only minor office fires into its own footprint in 6.5 seconds breaking all Newtons laws of motion for a mere $400 million before we bankrupt ourselves attacking Afghanistan and Iraq considering the fact that they spend $ 40 million on the Lewinski/Clinton case (to find out whether he lied under oath about screwing the girl) I’m sure NYers would choose the investigation into the collapse of building 7 no problem.
Here is the collapse for those of you who didn’t know about the third building collapsing.
Even NIST had no explanation as to why this happened and let’s face it it never happened before or after 911.
More than 1500 Architects and Engineers want to know why it happened too. If only to be able to prevent it from happening another time.
“More than 1500 Architects and Engineers…”
To borrow your own text speak emotion
ROFL!
This would be round about the same number of supposed “Architects and Engineers”, (including a high number of students it must be stated), that has been claimed by that same website for the past few years.
If you must use the appeal to authority and numbers logical fallacy to bolster your argument it would be better if you could actually show that the numbers supporting these wacky ideas are actually growing significantly over time rather than stagnating.
no Cowboy hat boy,
the figures are:
1,513 verified architectural and engineering professionals and 12,284 other supporters
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.
If that many building professionals want to know why a perfectly well build steel framed twice reinforced to withstand nuclear blasts collapses after a couple of hours of minor carbon fires within 6.5 seconds into its own footprint breaking all the laws of motion I’m happy to second that request. That is not using authority to press a point that is pointing out that since I’m not a building professional but they are I’m inclined to support that demand. Especially since even NIST after eight years can not explain the collapse.
LOL.
I note you failed to answer the actual question that I raised, which was shouldn’t the numbers supporting this investigation be growing substationally rather than stagnating as seems to be the case?
Eve, about the ‘small office fire in WTC7’ that you like to mention, here’s video you could link to in support of that:
and an interview with Deputy Fire Chief Peter Hayden, from early 02:
Looks to me like a substantial fire that was left to burn for several hours because the firefighters were concerned about the integrity of the building. But opinions vary obviously.
Hi PB,
Here is a fire in a steel framed building in Madrid. It was much hotter, the building much more fragile and it burned mush longer but the building was still there.
Here is a steel framed building in China which again burned far hotter ,longer and was build in a strange lopsided manner but it di not collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture and no steel framed building other than the three WTC buildings have ever collapsed due to fires, let alone into their own foot prints in 6.5, 10 and 11 seconds. And the reaon for its collapse was because according to them one beam of the structure heated up and expanded a tiny bit more than the others causing the structure to collapse like a controlled ($ millions of dollars to pull off correctly) demolition. Come on PB, Come on.
Let me ask you something? Try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds or a 180 in 10-11 seconds. That is the time it took for those buildings to “collapse”. If you can do that I concede that those buildings failed structurally into their own footprint towards the path of most resistance.
Still not small office fire. It was bloody big office fire left to burn for several hours because the fire crews thought the building was going to collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture
Wikipedia mis-reports the NIST interim report then:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
I know, I know, wikipedia. But still. The NIST report says something. It either says what wikipedia claims it says, or what you claim it says. Shall I check?
The madrid building wasn’t more fragile, it had a reinforced concrete central core, which survived, the steel shell around it collapsed though, about 2-3 hours in to the fire.
PB,
I take it you did not try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds then.
Buildings do not collapse due to fire in freefall speed into their own foot print because of gravity.
The fire was comparatively cold and the explanation from NIST has been peer reviewed and found wanting.
Here is a link to the NY times archives explaining the reinforcement of the building in 1989.
It was reinforced again to house the emergency bunker of Giuliani. It was supposed to be able to withstand a nuclear impact.
Here is a video which shows the explosion initiation bringing down the building in the afternoon. NIST denies explosions occurred.
Here is a video of an interview with Barry Jennings. Barry Jennings was the Deputy Director of Emergency Services Department for the New York City Housing Authority. He died under mysterious circumstances just before the NIST report was released. He describes explosions in the building when none of the two towers had collapsed yet and He describes how the first 6 floors just disappeared leaving the outer walls standing.
All of which is fascinating eve.
however, all I’m pointing out is that you keep saying it was a small fire, when video shows that it wasn’t, and that there was structural damage when you claim there was none, and that the NIST report doesn’t say what you claimed it says.
Given this, I’m not really inclined to trust things you have to say. That’s not my fault, it’s your fault. You say things that when checked turn out to not be true, or at the very least , wildy misleading.
It really really really will help you to convince people if you sort that problem out.
Is what I said PC. Compared to the Spanish and Chinese fire they were minor.
If you choose to ignore evidence of explosions (You’re not alone, NIST refused to address this), the fact that the building reinforced to withstand a nuclear blast did collapse in free fall speed 6.5 seconds into its own foot print against all laws of motion and physics and unseen before and after 911 than that is your prerogative, mate.
Thanks a bunch for keeping the thread alive because unlike you there are always people who do want to know and they get to learn about it this way.
For those of you wanting to meet other people who want to know the truth here is the forum you might want to visit and become a member from and here is once again the link to Architects and engineers for 911 truth. Here is the site for the fire fighters for 911 truth and here is a list of prominent patriots who want a new and independent investigation.
“So yes you may know what you told your poodle to collect.”
WTF???
I’m not even a member of the National Party so why would you try and suggest I had something to do with this.
I think you are guilty of the very same problem you have when people equate members of The Standard with Labour.
My apologies. That sort of deliberately slipped out. For some reason it felt right…..
(it must have been all of the synchronized yapping I have been seeing for the last couple of days)
Why does political discourse have to be so violent Gosman?
And by the looks of your comment you will be aware that I have written expressing my concern that my private information may be held by the National Party and by Slater. Cameron has responded in his usual manner.
I am actually wondering about the benefit of debating some issues online. I don’t care about abuse myself, but I know a number of others who feel very threatened by the overly intrusive and abusive behaviour of some.
Are you suggesting my comments to you constitutes abuse?
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow about the credit card information that Cameron Slater might or might not have and the reason why you sent the e-mail to him when your issue seems to be with Cameron Slater and the Labour party has already stated that credit card information was not accessed.
Yes I did say your e-mail was whiny but that is my personal opinion of it when reading it. That is hardly constitutes abuse on any major level in my book but if you were horribly offended I must apologise profusely to you.
Sorry Gosman. I agree your comment was mild in comparison to many.
I was referring more to the stream of texts and emails I am currently receiving.
I am pretty thick skinned about it but I just had breakfast with a few others who have been considerably affected by the application of the internet blowtorch on them.
There has to be a better way.
Sorry to hear that MS. Misuse of telecommunications including email is a crime.
Yes, it is. A very serious crime.
I actually sympathise with you on this. I inwardly cringed when I saw you included your contact details on the e-mail as I could imagine certain people would most likely use that information in rather nasty ways. I might disagree with your political view point but there really is no excuse for that sort of stuff.
Do you get what I mean then MS?
I’m told (elsewhere on this thread) that a climate of political attack and abuse is essential for democracy to function, and to keep lprent in the country.
But (I presume) MS is not being abused by politicians or representatives of political parties. So how does your “new way of doing things” have anything to do with the current issues MS is having?
I was talking about my opinons I posted on and discussed here, about the example of political behaviour set by our so called leaders – that any tactics are fair game as long as you can get away with it. Behaviour that flows out, including to politically minded people who seem to think anything and anyone is fair game in the brawl for power.
I think it’s incredibly sad to see the amount of resources that go into trying to abuse and destroy in political circles. It goes far beyond democratic debate, it’s an excuse to be a power seeking arsehole.
I figured that would be your answer. But don’t you think they you are seriously exaggerating the potential benefits of your so-called ‘new way of doing things’? Obviously, behaviour of political minded people is influenced to some degree by our political leaders. But people aren’t suddenly going to start behaving like angels just because there is less dirt being thrown around at the top.
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow
Is that the same guy that the movie Goodfellas was named after? 😉
How do you threaten someone without threatening someone?
“Hey Mickey, look, you’ve been causing trouble here and you know it. Why would you do that when you know your mum has just had a heart attack and is recovering down at St Vincent’s? And your wife, she’s got that new job at the store down the road hasn’t she? I heard that she likes it there. Now your little Matty he’s at such a sensitive age looking to start school next month. So Mickey, if I were you, I’d just focus on making sure that your family stays healthy and happy, and not worrying about all this other political stuff.
Geddit?”
So you wrote to the National Party and now Slater knows about it?
How does that work?
Wrote to both to put them on notice and to ask for information they held concerning me. Slater responded rather briefly saying “F@#$ off”. His eloquence is mythical. I am thinking of seeking clarification of his position but it is a bit like poking a bear with a stick …
Right.
I suspect that Slater only understands or appreciates certain kinds of messages MS. A polite email is not one of them.
ms – Sounds like a new alien language? Perhaps he has out of planet connections which could explain Whale Oil’s peculiarities.
Nah, don’t bother. Throw it to the Privacy Commissioner.
Wondering about that too. How does Gosman know? Has MS’s letter been published. Good on him by the way.
The Righty Socialist Network. Seriously – they play and co-ordinate as a corporate team.
Yep, possibly the biggest bunch of collectivists around. It’s a pity that the left doesn’t play together so nicely.
Slater has published the letter in it’s entirety on his blog.
So Cameron sees fit to publish the contact details of people who email him.
Cool people you work with, National.
Who works with?
No-one Gos, it’s just some wacky zany conspiracy.
Nobody in their right mind would imagine for a moment that Slater has anything to do with the National Party.
What a preposterous idea.
Finally some sense from you Felix on this whole Cameron Slater is a willing tool of the National Party conspiracy theory ;).
So you wrote to the National Party and now Slater knows about it?
Poodle post ?
Bizarre -with one hand typing damning accusations of dirty tricks from the opposing party, and with the other hand dissing me for suggesting our opposition model of democracy is a tad bent.
So it hasn’t crossed your mind that people aren’t actually dissing you for saying that you aren’t happy with the present model, but are actually calling bullshit on your alternative proposal?
Interesting, Pete. That level of narcissism could take you a long way in your new career.
Pete, why must you resort to these filthy insinuations? Kumbaya mate! Remember?
Let us talk closely know and reason together a way out of this mess, a mess caused by your sad and pathetic wallowing in the politics of personal denigration. First admit that your idea is fail, and then agree with us to move forward, together.
Gerry the Butt is on air saying that he can’t say anything definite. It’s blindingly obvious he says that some people will have to shift. But he doesn’t want to state definite areas, ‘It is a big decision for people, it’s a lifetime investment, but the ducks have to be all lined up. Even after an announcement there will be a considerable time before people can move”.
Every comment he makes shows that he understands the position and then refuses to answer the questions, to make decisions because he has to make decisions that are ‘very, very robust’. Everyone wanting simplistic approaches are being unreasonable. So much for all his powers. I imagine that the decision to appoint him went like this – Gerry is such a mouthy livewire. His family know about timber. He knows about practical working with timber. He is a teacher, (who often think they know everything) and is not a shy communicator. He won’t be happy with his other positions. This will give him something to get his teeth into, which are false, and get him out of our hair here at NACT headquarters where he is a bit of a nit.
Last “It’s about fairness to the property owners”. By that he means, not making precipitate announcements, before all the possibilities have been gravely considered, chewed over like a cow’s cud, and finally excreted to the population. By all means they can’t be consulted with, have location meetings with management and engineers as they wish, who would explain the difficulties and possible and likely solutions and what the hold-ups are caused by. This is the authoritarian way.
Excerpt from the song Show Me from My Fair Lady – sing along!
Words! Words! Words! I’m so sick of words!
I get words all day through;
First from him, now from you!
Is that all you blighters can do?
Has anyone thought of a protest occupation at his place? You know, everyone bring one bucketful of liquefaction from their property to dump on his lawn, just to make a point.
cv That would be a newsworthy action. It seems we can otherwise only act like an army of primed mosquitoes buzzing and biting till he reacts. If we can inject some ideas viruses and set up an itch we might get action and move this organic pile for the benefit of all of Christchurch.
Next idea is that the east side parts to be abandoned for housing should be bought by Landcorp from CERA or other body and then turned into dairy farms. These would use best practice and be models showing good environmental practices using present understanding of using effluent safely. I understand that if treated properly the gases produced can be utilised for energy. Landcorp would hold environmental field days similar to Hamilton and attract farmers and the general public for demonstrations. Landcorp would also develop, assisted by locals, corridors of vegetation for birds etc. Some of the people who had had to abandon their previous houses would have the option of living in hamlets of suitable, practical, low-cost houses on suitable higher ground with a passing grade from engineers. These would be served by buses morning, lunchtime and evening so that they wouldn’t be isolated from the city and wouldn’t need a car to get to work.
Have a listen to Minister Gerry Brownlee in all his glory, all embracing competence, omnipotence, and beneficence:
[audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20110615-0930-minister_for_earthquake_recovery-048.mp3" /]
That should get more publicity. Knock me over, Gerry. Take my breath away. Quake me. And it’s all so blindingly obvious.
The interview before that with Barry Tutt and Lianne Dalziel is at:
[audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20110615-0909-chch_residents_in_limbo_awaiting_geotech_report-048.mp3" /]
These were on ‘9 to Noon’, Radio NZ, today.
I’ve never understood how in a country so full of cow shit, mushrooms can cost $12/kg! Using modern mycological methods we could drink the run off from dairy, but not while we assign more value to ipods than we do to chickens. They are just gaming it to see which way their corporations can make the most money from it and once they’ve been told what they are going to do,I’m sure they will let us all in on it. I thinking your all expecting a little too much from someone who obviously has someone else hand up his am I allowed to say that? I better go read more policy 🙂
Tough peeps of the day, (no really edition):
Ali al-Ekri
Rula al-Saffar
Zahra al-Sammak
Ayat al-Qurmezi
http://www.smh.com.au/world/medicos-tortured-bahrain-trial-told-20110614-1g1vn.html
whilst the poodles were licking their wounds, and the journos were playing three card Monty with the truth, it seems the Education Minister has been busy planning the destruction of one of the few programmes that has consistently helped thousands of POOR children recieve much needed assistance for over fifty years
Tolley wants to close the Health Camps and is not saying what will replace them
This is a very serious attack on one of our country’s most internationally applauded Child-assistance policies. Does anyone have any detail?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/5140699/Letter-an-insult-to-board
I do know that Health Camps became a sort of mis-nomer years ago. Used to be just for kids who were sick.
But now it is a respite for desperate kids suffering from abuse and learning difficulties and general needs. Kids are there for a limited time and get regular meals, regular recreation, and regular schooling. Suppose the problem is in what happens to those kids after the Camp.
No, my friend was raped by one of the ‘leaders’ at the health camp. I look back at those six weeks as a time that I learnd to harden my heart and really start to hate the world. If there ever was a FAIL in the states attempts to fix my broken family, then this camp was definitely one of them. I do not know of a single other kid who liked or benefited in their time there, far too much like a “getting you ready for prison” and “boot camp” to be anything other than a tool instilling repression in our youth. Good Riddance!
George Carlin on who owns us. It just never get’s old.
Is that old or told? Pretty depressing stuff. And here in NZ? Maybe it is time for lobby groups to be made transparent before it is too late.
Stop the motor of NZ?
Is that the same 1960’s motor we are using powered by milk, cheese and wool?
No, that would be the 1860s one that we still haven’t replaced.
‘Lack of certainty is killing the spirit and economy of Christchurch’
OK. Here is some certainties:
1. Global extraction of conventioanl oil has peaked, so current economic arrangements will disintegrate over the next decade. The globalised, industrialised food system will collapse..
2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered, substantial sea level rise that will cover much of Canterbury is more or less inevitable over coming decades. i.e. Christchurch doesn’t have a long term future.
3. Politicians serve their own interests, and the interests of bankiers and corporations. Any ‘solutions’ they come up with will therefore primarily be for the benefit politicians, bankers and corporations. Since peak oil and abrupt climate change are taboo topics for them, their ‘solutions’ will be completely disconnected from reality.
4. Most people are ignorant of the facts and don’t believe the truth when it is provided.
5 The most important item on the agenda of politicians and the media at this stage in the game is to keep ‘the proles’ misinformed and believing in the system – a bit like Fukishima: ‘everything is under control’.
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come. (Of course, those who run early get the best spots.)
[lprent: This sidetracked way to far from the post. Next time I see you do this, you will get a *long* ban. moving whole thread to OpenMike. ]
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come.
In the kind of apocolyptic scenario you are thinking of those who are isolated in the ‘hills’ will be the first to be picked off. It will be those who have strong communities around them who will survive.
You should look at the post-Soviet experience in Russia during the 1990’s to get a better model of what is more likely to happen.
Yeah and Fukushima is a worry. The cover up is worse than Chernobyl.
“2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered,”
Which positive feedbacks have been triggered? Last news I heard was that were potentially heading into a Maunder Minimum, giving us several decades of cold weather.
“Last news I heard was that were potentially heading into a Maunder Minimum, giving us several decades of cold weather.”
You must have been under a rock for a while, then.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/14/ice_age/
A little off-topic, I admit. But it might answer the question above
Could be interesting, bit early to bank on it though and this line at the end made me laugh:
The threat of climate change hasn’t resulted in the governments making any radical shifts in policy yet.
Yep, Chch is fucked with higher sea level rises than previously anticipated.
Chch is going to be a salt water swamp by the end of the century.
How can the earth be at “peak oil” when we’re yet to reach peak exploration? Get a grip! I heard this sort of doomsday meanderings back in the 1970s. Why don’t you google “fracking” then re-phrase what you loosely call “known facts?” Idiot!
Micky wrote to Goodfellow and ccd Slater on the email. It was a strange, rambling email that accused all sorts of high crimes on behalf of National for which Micky has no evidence while purportedly defending Labour’s unlawful and non-existent lack of security on its data.
Micky then told Slater he was free to publish the email but only in its entirety. Is it any wonder that Slater did so, and included the contact details that Micky left which were on the email, following Micky’s request to publish in entirety?
Micky if you are Labour’s legal counsel then Labour really is up shit creek. Cam Slater’s blog isn’t even subject to the Privacy Act, so good luck trying to shift that shit up a hill.
Strange? Rambling?
“Dear Peter
There has been some recent publicity concerning the National Party’s downloading of information from a Labour Party server which regrettably was not as secure as it might be.
From today’s National Business Review I note that you have confirmed that a National Party staff member “accessed” the data. By this I anticipate that you mean “downloaded”. The data has also regrettably found its way into the hands of Mr Cameron Slater.
I am pretty sure that some of the data was mine. I donated to the Labour Party to purchase some “Stop Asset Sales” signs as I considered this a worthy cause to support. The idea of selling an interest in our power companies to essentially overseas interests is frankly insane. I paid for the signs by credit card and I am concerned that the National Party now has my credit card’s details.
You can imagine the worry that this has caused me. It is bad enough that your party has my credit card details but there is the strong possibility that your organisation has also facilitated Cameron Slater aka Whaleoil to obtain the same information. I cannot imagine what he will do with this information.
So I seek the following from you:
1. Advice on what data your organisation holds concerning me.
2. Your organisation’s undertaking that it will not disclose any information that it holds concerning me to any third party.
3. Details of information already supplied to Mr Slater concerning the security problems that the Labour Party server had.
4. Details of information supplied to any third party which may include data that relates to me.
Please note that if I suffer any monetary loss because of the actions of your organisation then I reserve the right to seek damages.
I am sending a copy of this email to Mr Slater so that he is also placed on notice. I also seek the same information from him. If he does anything that causes me loss then I reserve the right to seek redress from him personally.
I note that Mr Slater has chosen to print previous emails from Chris Flatt. He is at liberty to print this email but only in full.
Finally please note that I require a response within the next seven days. “
Don’t you think you made a bit of a major assumption there that the National party organisation supplied Cameron Slater with this information.
I’m not sure if people in the organisation had publically come out and denied they had when you wrote off to them but if they had what were you expecting them to say about this? Were you hoping you would catch them out with them stating ‘Well we didn’t give him any of your credit card details so you dont have to w…. D’oh!’?
Also is this a formal legal request for your information back and if so did you formally direct a request to Cameron Slater as well? If not, why haven’t you made a formal legal request, you are after all a lawyer?
Also is this a formal legal request for your information back and if so did you formally direct a request to Cameron Slater as well?
There is no prescribed form. All that you have to do is ask in writing for the information.
Have you cancelled your credit card and informed the issuer of the same of the potential lack of security in relation to the card/s in question ?
If not I’d suggest you should do so forthwith.
Micky you have no evidence that the Naitonal Party supplied anything to Slater. In fact you have denials from both the President and Slater himself that any such supply took place. The only pseudo-evidence you have is unsubstantiated allegations made by anonymous bloggers and commenters here at the Standard. Unless you’re preparing to have them appear as witnesses in Court to substantiate their claims which I don’t imagine would please them, then you are pushing shit up hill. I realise you are emotionally fraught at the moment but you would be better off blaming the Labour Party for publishing your personal details on the internet rather than trying to be a nuisance to the National Party who will just laugh your silly attention-seeking correspondence away.
Read Pagani’s blog for a human readable version. The logs are pretty clear if you (like we do) have a record of IP’s that access our site and you look at the back trace.
Quite frankly I think that Goodfellow doesn’t know what people in his organization do. After all someone there has been feeding dirt on him to Whale for some time. You perhaps…
Cameron Slater is a serial liar and completely untrustworthy. If he states something is a fact, then the highest probability is that is largely a fabrication. That is quite easy for me to prove, I’d just point to the various lies he has made about me and the organizations I worked for over the years.
If someone wants to sue on that basis, then go right ahead.
Could be me, but I doubt it Lyn since I’m not actually part of the National Party organisation. But I tell you what, if you go and put a disclaimer about all the party associations that your bloggers have you will have a right to make snide remarks about right wing commenters here. But you might want to read your About policy first.
It is in the about.
You have interesting IP’s and I have seen them before, which tends to make me suspicious. They are covered by the privacy provisions policy but I do scan them when I start putting people into moderation.
BTW: Since we’re talking about accuracy. My name is Lynn, and my partners name is Lyn. I keep thinking that you’re talking to someone else. Use lprent or Lynn please.
There is no disclaimer there of all the party associations of your bloggers Lyn and I wouldn’t expect them to be such, so if you want to go around insinuating party associations of commenters here that’s your choice because it’s your blog, but don’t expect me to think it’s an intellectually consistent approach to take.
What’s your point, PC?
You want readers to think you’re a disinterested neutral objective observer?
Yes there is. They are of the labour movement. A couple of us are Labour party members. Some are union members. Some have no known memberships but will state who they will vote for. Some bemoan that there is no party they will vote for.
At last count there are 30 odd people who have author rights here. Some haven’t used them for some time but did so extensively in the past. Others have only written a couple of posts. If you want to know what there affiliations are – then stop being so damn lazy and read their posts.
Oh and /author/admin
You know I didn’t ask for their associations so stop putting up bloody straw men and then getting all pissy on it when I don’t bite. I said you do not publish the party associations of your bloggers. Saying they are of the “labour movement” is not a disclaimer. Write what you like, it’s your blog. You’ve accused me of being a National Party insider who might pass things onto Whale and I’ve said your wrong. Keep that in mind next time you ban somebody for saying one of your bloggers is a Labour Party apparatchik. In the meantime that is not the topic of this discussion and you know it.
I would say that is a pretty clear disclaimer. It covers everyone who authors here because apart from the small number of original authors, it has been there since just after the site started.
You’re not one of those silly buggers that thinks a site like this can be run out of a political organization are you? Bear in mind that the two Bills, the spout and some of the others are usually pretty trenchant critics of the Labour party. Also I don’t think much of the Greens or anyone left of the right of the Labour Party. That this site could be run by a political party that was always a bit of a jerk-off fantasy by the right bloggers losing readers.
Ah, here we go. The little abrasiveness remarks, ignoring requests for the right name use and the accusations of not being intellectually consistent. Yep.
Don’t let him get to you Iprent. He isn’t worth it.
Thought he seemed familiar.
Gngngngn.
yeah mate you are pristine like Switzerland 😀
what jokes you got in your next act?
Have you heard the one about faceless men, the banker, and Merrill Lynch ?
… Umm, you probably have – by now.
You seem to be making the mistake of assuming that because you have evidence of Cameron Slater lying in the past that must mean everything he states subsequently must also be a lie AND that the opposite position from what he has stated about something must be the truth. That is hardly a persuassive argument.
Let me put this another way.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact. I think that he doesn’t truly distinguish between them. I’ve even looked at a couple of his posts on weapons, checked the specs and found that his assertions of fact have no basis in reality.
He is a entertaining storyteller for the credulous right, but you can’t rely on what he says because he routinely embellishes facts so they are unrecognizable.
Some of that happens in some authors posts here as well. But generally they clearly distinguish between what is fact and what is their opinion. Apart from anything else we have a far more active comments section with a much wider range of people who comment. Someone from some viewpoint will tear loose statements of fact apart as embarrassingly as possible. Authors learn that pretty fast.
And yes, you’re correct. I assume that anything that Whale says is wrong until proven otherwise. Why? Because my (and probably most peoples) experience of reading his stuff is that the more breathless his claims are, the more likely it is that he fabricated most of it.
I don’t rely on what Cameron Slater states however that doesn’t mean that the opposite must in fact be true. You should still weigh up the balance of probabilities and evidence.
Probabilities and evidence? yes, that would be the way to go about it.
That would be good – I haven’t seen you ever do that though.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact.
That can also apply to many of the posts here, laughably (or sadly) appearing as extreme propaganda. Just look at the headlines. Those that want them to be true will buy them, but they are hardly going to convince anyone else of a political alternative with any competence.
I know this isn’t a Labour blog – I agree, a party couldn’t do something like this – but a notable proportion of the posts here do nothing to help make Labour look like it has anywhere near recovered from 2008.
Whether the extreme posting comes from Labour or not the perceived link is there and it’s easy to think you wouldn’t want that lot anywhere near the liquor cabinet let alone cabinet in parliament.
The quality of writing you should be concerned about as a budding young politician with 15 years of private sector R&D experience is not at The Standard, it is within the MSM.
I agree – but how can one address that?
Where is this denial from the president?
As I recall from his statement he specifically avoided making that particular denial. Gotta link?
Try this Felix. It’s been linked to here several times already: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/national-admits-labour-data-breach-denies-passing-names-whaleoil-ck-95242
National’s president, Peter Goodfellow, confirmed a head office staffer accessed the data but denied it was passed on.
Or maybe you missed this:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10732187
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.
He said today National had written to Labour to say it had not passed on any information and did not intend to.”
That says that the data was not passed on.
It does not say that they didn’t instruct Whale about how to get access to it himself. Which is what is being suggested by felix
BTW: Looks like that took Whale some time to get right. The logs show him as being somewhat tentative. Whoever was doing it at the National part was better technically.
You’re the accuser here lyn, you have to prove your case with evidence. You have made assumptions based on plausibility, not inspected evidence and weighed up probabilities. They aren’t the same thing.
Goodfellow also didn’t deny that he was the shooter on the grassy knoll. Are you going to call the FBI to insist they make an arrest?
So far I haven’t even seen any evidence that Slater has done, or will do, anything illegal with the data. If you or somebody else could enlighten me on that I would be very grateful.
Portion Control telling lprent what he has or hasn’t done.
Thankfully we’re not writing here to satisfy you are we mate?
So he did, my mistake.
But what Lynn says is very interesting and a far more likely way for an organisation wanting to keep the dogs at arm’s length to operate.
What Lynn says (I apologise I’ve been calling him Lyn accidentally) on this is diversion and not backed up by evidence. If you want examples of third party attacks then you only have to look at the attacks that Pagani and Micky did on Simon Lusk and Whale a few weeks back before Trevor got in on the act. And if you are talking about third party attacks on political opponents by proxy then it would be very rich for that allegation to be coming from bloggers here at the Standard.
As for the plausibility of Lynn’s claim of an association between Whale and the National Party, are you fucking serious? Whale fucking hates the National Party, has as far as I know never said anything nice about Goodfellow (in fact he waged a no-holds barred campaign against him) and would quite happily see them stomped into the ground with Act taking their place.
Wow, you’re very much “in the loop” politically, aren’t you?
Amazing that I haven’t ever seen your handle before. lolz.
Portion Control = Damage Control
Hmmm
Simon Lusk is someone whose name I did not know until recently. He is implicated in the take over of the ACT party and also the anti MMP campaign. He is high up in the National Party and has significant links to the Beehive and Joyce. His name starts getting mentioned and then PC shows up and takes umbrage at this. Why the sensitivity?
I would not describe comments about Lusk as being “attacks”. He appears to me to be very competent at what he does.
Of course I could speculate at PC’s links to Lusk but lprent would not like it …
You can speculate all you like Micky, just as you speculated on Lusk and his so called high up connections in the Beehive which sound more like more fantasy from you of the kind that had you send the silliest lawyer’s letter to Peter Goodfellow that I have seen in a very long time. I’ve never met the guy and I tend to think if he was such a mover and shaker in the National Party more people would have heard of him.
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.”
Love it, I have a possible vulnerability on my computer so I take the liberty of testing it on somebody elses without their permission. Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
so much for “rambling”. Comprehension problem, Perception Control?
Well said McFlock
I would say definite comprehension and logical deductive reasoning problems. Have just commented on such to PC on “Silence of the Poodles” .Potty Control would seem to be a more appropriate moniker as a constant self reminder. “Must control pottiness, must control pottiness…….’
Reading about Christchurch Mayor Bob Parker stating he would not continue if he couldn’t have his choice of City Manager struck warning bells in my mind. It sounds like a step along the path to American cronyism.
There a leader (mayor) gets elected, and can sack the administration and bureaucrats of the previous leader and instal his own handpicked people. Our idea has been that the bureaucrats are largely servants of the government working under the law for the people and serving whichever party gets into power in parliament. But they are supposed to be able to offer free and frank advice that is not partial to the leader’s whims and bents. It’s a good idea and it shouldn’t be countenanced to have it subverted.
I don’t trust this new “Portion Control” person. He/she has made some very sideways and very weasely statements in the last couple of days.
Looks like someone sent here on a very specific mission.
I reckon he thinks he’s smart and he actually wants to call himself politically correct but I think it’s about damage control.
Or as McFlock says “Perception Control”
LOL
Your labour party handlers told you to say that when you ran out of lies to distract from Labour breaking the law by not protecting personal data didn’t they felix?
LOL, the problem is you have been far too obvious and many people here are thinking exactly what felix is.
Congrats PC,
You managed posting here for the first time to end up with only cowboy hat boy Gosman as your mate.
Handler??? Wow how’s that for thinking that people need to be handled in order to be able to see through you. So Cosby and Textor. LOL.
Travellerev if I can go to the effort of correcting myself when I spell Lynn’s name wrong then you can at least go to the effort of spelling my uncle Lynton’s name right. It’s CROSBY.
It makes jokes tooo!!!
Did you just pull the “I know you are, but what am I?” card, Percussion Cap?
Don’t be asking for a pay rise just yet, is my advice….
Yeah, these Labour party handlers are driving me nuts actually Codpiece Potion. I just want to do beat poetry but they’re holding me back and stifling my creativity.
ROFL. Great names!!!
It’s PC gone mad!
Haven’t seen him today. Maybe it’s just PC gone?
Not gone
He did improve markedly with his interactions after I lavished some personal attention on him with a auto-moderation clamp and a sarcasm reply goad.
😈
I don’t have him banned so it wasn’t me.
Not everyone has handlers, you know. Or maybe you don’t.
but if we don’t have handlers, how do we know what to say? It’s not like we’d just like honestly believe that the governments objective is just to favour the rich and fuck the country…
Why is Simon Power giving a speech in the General Debate, that focuses on attacking Goff’s leadership?
Oh and Finlayson is accusing Labour MPs of engaging in trivialities like flame wars & cycle races.
Yeah, did it seem like it was the exact same speech that half a dozen Nat MPs have read out every Wednesday for the last 3 years?
Yes, it seems to be a constant diversionary activity for National to bash Goff.
Surely Finlayson can’t be serious, accusing Labour of not being serious about the important and urgent politics because they do blogging stuff, and cycle rides. Meanwhile, where is JonKey? Dancing awkwardly down a fashion runway? Joking his way from one photo op to the next? And as for his stand-up routine that he used to deliver his budget speech?
Carol, the problem with mud slinging from the Nats regarding Goff is that mud just may be slung back. What a dirty tricks election it is going to be. The Nats have to watch their back as they never know when a blogger will pull them up for a similar thing they are accusing a Labour MP about.
Since about 21.00 last night, I have been reading newspaper clippings I had put in a big envelope dated from 1989 to 1996. I am very depressed to see that everything NACT are doing has been done before – in 1984-99. some changes are so long standing that I had forgotten things were ever different. Yellow Buses for instance – have been owned by the international company Stagecoach since at least 1993, yet I had forgotten that they were ever Government (or Council) owned until among my clippings I found a heap of objections to Jenny Schippelfat selling Yellow Buses off…. It is mega-depressing that it’s all deja vu all over again – the same anti-bemeficiary letters to the Ed., the same replies – the same think tanks putting their ideas forward. It’s all worse now though – in 1991-2, there was great indignation about DPB women being work-tested when their youngest child was 7 years old. Good grief, that was bad enough…. One thing I have noticed – I came across only one reference to DPB women ‘breeding for a living”. Maybe that meme hadn’t got started then, or it wasn’t widespread? Or maybe I just didn’t save in this inadvertent time capsule, any reference to it?
The more we change the more we stay the same. Your research is a bit depressing isn’t it Vicky. Sad to think that the population isn’t outraged by the thought of “making” mothers go back to work when the child is 12 months. Remember when Key suggested 6 years last year? He got away with that and so they seem hell bent on getting away with the sooner.
Wonder how many mothers (fathers?) on DPB would be affected and how many kids?
Oh yes, it’s deeply depressing! (I still have more clippings to go through, I am deciding what to get rid of, as I will one way or another, possibly, I hope, be moving soon!) It’s amazing how much rubbish one accumulates over 15 years in the same dump!) The scary thing is that in all those years, nothing has permanently changed…, (From 1999 to 2008, it did, but the changes didn’t stick..)
Boiling of frogs springs to mind. People now accept things they would have argued against in the 90s…
Fluff and a Jab
Green Party MP Metiria Turei asked some very important questions of John Key in Parliament today. Once again, the Prime Minister wasn’t there so Bill English tried to answer for the absentee leader.
In one particular answer given by the flailing Bill English, he said that the Government was helping to reduce the huge divide between the haves and have-nots ie disparity by improving immunisation and the Green’s inspired home insulation scheme. He must be joking!
Anyone watching Back Benchers? Simon Bridges seems to be having a hard time tonight, he looks tired and all of his yelling and talking over of others is quite telling. Big ups to Wallace Chapman who’s done an excellent job in tolerating his behaviour all night.