1. More revelations about Labour stealing from the public purse.
2. More diversionary tactics from Labour sycophants here at the Standard.
3. And more impiortantly…the public further reinforce their belief that Labour could not run a shower let alone a government.
Sort your act out guys, this nation needs a strong opposition, we simply cannot afford another term of Labour lite policies from Neville Key and the Nat’s.
Force Neville back to the right, only then can we hope to build a strong economy, one strong enough to withstand another Labour government (in about nine years)
More visits from well known RWNJs and new posters that we have never heard of before. More incessant chantings of slogans along the lines of “Labour Bad”. More claims that the taking of data from a crippled server was somehow authorised.
No doubt the debate will be heated and no one’s opinions will be changed.
Normally you can put together a fairly reasoned (all be it wrong) argument, I guess even you have been forced to concede that Labour are as guilty as sin when it comes to stealing public funds.
Tell me mate, why is it that you lot think you have the right to steal my money whenever you fancy?
[Blatant trolling. A repeat will not be tolerated. Final warning…RL]
If you ever had any doubts about the Casino nature of the economy as RWNJs want it try this headline from the NY Times this morning..Markets Turn Up Sharply After Release of Retail Data
Apparently the markets gained 1% on news that data was bad BUT not as bad as expected. Go figure. It is the sort of mentality that drives Keys economic vision, pray and hope and talk up what is a very bad story.
Indeed, our primary outputs are going to be highly in demand whilst there is still some liquidity in the world. Commentary from http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/ has repeatedly got the indicators right, they suggest the world economy will have increasingly sharp swings up and down with the average being slow decline. Interesting times.
The line indicating value on the graph is OK if you assume unlimited growth and available resources…take the resource availability out consumption comes down, and with it true value.This is what we now face.
I don’t know why bad data, but not as bad as expected, somehow surprised you when the market rallies?
They ‘price in’ what they expect the results of every report will be. Then, if the report comes out as expected, the market barely moves. If it comes out differently, the market will move towards the new position.
Nothing casino-like at all. Simple rational behaviour of markets, really.
Quite simply if I see niceness breaking out amongst political parties in a democracy, then I’d consider that it is time to depart that society.
If the level of mudslinging, vitriol, hate and intolerance we have in our politics is seen as an essential part of a “healthy democracy” it’s no wonder our society has more than a few rough edges.
PeteG, we might want to consider that vitriol and extreme positions go hand in hand with a society under increasing stress. The party that was the last 30 years is over, the “economy”if you can call it that now faces the long slow decline that will parallel resouce depletion (energy in particular). There are no magic bullets, no immediate cure, or way back ever. Its gone. Bleak indeed.
The cosy assumptions of the middle classes are crumbling before their eyes, no financial institution is to be trusted, no long term future based on what we are used to can be trusted. Those who own most are grasping to own more, those with least are getting less. So we will fight one another for the diminishing remains of what is left. Dont expect it to be “nice”, it is too visceral for that.
I guess it might sound a bit strange to some to expect that all our elected reprentatives should actually represent us and work together for the good of the country rather than ignore the people that voted for them, barricade themselves in party factions and try and bring each other down by any means they can think of, more foul than fair.
Doesn’t it seem strange that we seem to accept a “democracy” where the main opposition party doesn’t accept the democrat vote of the election and instead devotes itself to trying to bring the government down?
That sounds like actively encouraged desperate for power sedition to me, not democracy.
Continually trying to bring a government down is, isn’t it?
You know very well I don’t support single party rule. That’s just another of your attempts at devious and blatant misrepresentation.
I support multiple healthy parties who can work together for the good of the country (which they do at select committee level now anyway) but can still have differences and debates on issues.
“You know very well I don’t support single party rule. “
Actually I don’t, Pete. I know you say that, but every time we drill down through your ideas about representation we run into this brick wall that you just don’t seem to be able to see over.
Who’s this “we” you are referring to? Who are you working with?
You don’t give me the impression you want to understand what I think.
You give me the impression you want to eliminate posts you don’t want here. Under favourable protection you try to exclude who you don’t want on the blog.
By “we” I just mean myself and the other commenters who have tried at length to get you to examine your ideas a little more closely. I’m only speaking for myself, but acknowledging that I’m not the only one who has put these questions to you.
Would you like to change the subject again or are you going to try to answer the question now?
I have other things to do sometimes felix, I’m not perpetually in thrall of your quaint manoeverings.
Politicians should be prepared to justify their actions to all voters.
I notice in that exchange that I made it clear (again) that I don’t support a one party state. Most of you “assumptions” there were incorrect, but that’s what you seem to like doing.
I support a multi party state where the parties don’t always try and destroy each other.
A question for you – do you accept that I don’t support a one party state?
And because if I said things like “please can our politicians and their heavies behave a bit more civilly and set a better example” it tends to get ignored.
Parties need jolting out of their self obsession with power at any price. Blogs aid and abet their charade of democracy, aka desparate clinging to power by any means.
Yeah everyone should just shut up and let you* make all the decisions then, for the good of democracy.
*Yes yes, I know I heard you the last time. You have a new and improved method of politics where people you listen to will talk to you and you’ll do what they tell you. Sounds like something I’d hate, sorry.
Pete I have no great love or respect for our parliamentarians, however, in their defense our parliamentary system is set up and designed to be oppositional in nature so as to ensure a positive and negative position on all issues are vigorously debated while this can lead to the childish and hateful behaviour we often seen in parliament it is a reasonable price to pay for having a democracy.
Oppositional is fine, we need that. But I think our parties go much further than “oppositional”.
We can have opposition and denbate without having to resort to the levels of mudslinging, blatant dishonesty and illegality (or stretching the rules to suit) that we get far too much of.
Oh I agree with all that, I was pretty much backing up lprent’s view that if we suddenly had an outbreak of agreement on everything from the politicians we should all be very worried indeed.
I consider that those would be where people are getting killed, tortured, jailed, disappeared or having the shit beaten out of them. When you look outside democracies that is what you see. When you look at sham ‘democracies’ like Fiji, that is what you see. In fact that appears to be the norm for the political process over the centuries.
The penalty cost for having a vaguely democratic system like ours is that you allow minorities and dissidents room to have a voice without getting killed (etc) is that the process is noisy. The noisiness appears to be what you’re objecting to.
I suspect you have lived a sheltered existence and could do to get out more amongst different cultures to see how they handle their political systems. You don’t even have to leave the country. I’d suggest that you do what I did at age 18 and go in the army. The culture was quite different to what I was used to, and soldiers there had a far far clearer appreciation of a free society looked like than you do.
Why can’t Radio NZ leave the Darren Hughes affair alone? This morning they were trying (again) to make Phil Goff look bad over it. Are CT worried that Phil is increasingly like a better alternative than the donkey, et al. Move along.
How is it smear mongering? He was under the influence of something, I didn’t say it was Darren that had anything to do with it. I’m merely pointing out the reason why charges were not laid. This was reported by the way.
[lprent: Whatever it was, I’d guess that you just failed to put in the link. Silly you. But I suspect that you made up your own story and didn’t put in a link to something reputable because it didn’t support you interpretation – right?.
Don’t be daft. If you want to make a statement of fact or insinuation of fact, then you need to support it. Otherwise we’ll treat it as trolling. ]
Crosby Textor – a hybrid organism that infects the brain stem of weak minded egoists who believe that some people are simply better than others because they own more shit.
One typical CT tactic is to provide news organisations with easy access to selective “facts”, specific framing/languaging and acceptable people to interview.
And with news organisations having to do more on less and less, its a quick easy way for them to get some content out there without working too hard.
mickeysavage, is it true that you sent a whiny missive to Peter Goodfellow of National complaining about Cameron Slater and worrying about whether he had your credit card details?
Wouldn’t that be like someone on the right complaining to the Labour party about the antics of someone from The Standard? I’m sure you would agree that the Standard boys and girls cannot be dictated to by Labour Party head office yet you seem to think Cameron Slater can. Truly Bizarre.
Anyway I thought the Labour party has already stated that the credit card information was on another properly protected server and nothing was compromised? Don’t you trust the Labour party hierarchy on this?
People have done that a couple of times to us as well.
However, the National party’s IP’s are all over the access logs long before Slater touched it. It would appear that the National party could have a copies of some Labour party data, and it looks highly likely that someone in the National Party tipped off their poodle. So yes you may know what you told your poodle to collect.
But I suggest you look at the Privacy Act. It has some interesting provisions for organisations having to disclose any information that they hold on individuals.
So is Cameron working for ACT or National ……….. or is he actually responsible for 9/11?
Perhaps he’s just a political junkie who revels in poking opposing political junkies, politicians and political parties with a stick ……… seems to be good therapy for him.
I bet if the question was: “Would you support a new $400m investigation into WTC7 collapse?” the answer would have been a lot more negative.
In other words, if you give stuff away for free, even if it’s stuff people don’t really care about, they’ll gladly accept it. If you charge them for it, you’ll get a low fewer takers.
ROFL, Fuck, rare earth man talk about a warped argument.
I’ll tell you what; if the choice is let’s get to the bottom of why a perfectly well build 47 story steel framed high rise collapsed after only minor office fires into its own footprint in 6.5 seconds breaking all Newtons laws of motion for a mere $400 million before we bankrupt ourselves attacking Afghanistan and Iraq considering the fact that they spend $ 40 million on the Lewinski/Clinton case (to find out whether he lied under oath about screwing the girl) I’m sure NYers would choose the investigation into the collapse of building 7 no problem.
Here is the collapse for those of you who didn’t know about the third building collapsing.
Even NIST had no explanation as to why this happened and let’s face it it never happened before or after 911.
More than 1500 Architects and Engineers want to know why it happened too. If only to be able to prevent it from happening another time.
This would be round about the same number of supposed “Architects and Engineers”, (including a high number of students it must be stated), that has been claimed by that same website for the past few years.
If you must use the appeal to authority and numbers logical fallacy to bolster your argument it would be better if you could actually show that the numbers supporting these wacky ideas are actually growing significantly over time rather than stagnating.
no Cowboy hat boy,
the figures are: 1,513verifiedarchitectural and engineering professionals and 12,284 other supporters
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.
If that many building professionals want to know why a perfectly well build steel framed twice reinforced to withstand nuclear blasts collapses after a couple of hours of minor carbon fires within 6.5 seconds into its own footprint breaking all the laws of motion I’m happy to second that request. That is not using authority to press a point that is pointing out that since I’m not a building professional but they are I’m inclined to support that demand. Especially since even NIST after eight years can not explain the collapse.
I note you failed to answer the actual question that I raised, which was shouldn’t the numbers supporting this investigation be growing substationally rather than stagnating as seems to be the case?
Eve, about the ‘small office fire in WTC7’ that you like to mention, here’s video you could link to in support of that:
and an interview with Deputy Fire Chief Peter Hayden, from early 02:
Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
Looks to me like a substantial fire that was left to burn for several hours because the firefighters were concerned about the integrity of the building. But opinions vary obviously.
Here is a fire in a steel framed building in Madrid. It was much hotter, the building much more fragile and it burned mush longer but the building was still there.
Here is a steel framed building in China which again burned far hotter ,longer and was build in a strange lopsided manner but it di not collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture and no steel framed building other than the three WTC buildings have ever collapsed due to fires, let alone into their own foot prints in 6.5, 10 and 11 seconds. And the reaon for its collapse was because according to them one beam of the structure heated up and expanded a tiny bit more than the others causing the structure to collapse like a controlled ($ millions of dollars to pull off correctly) demolition. Come on PB, Come on.
Let me ask you something? Try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds or a 180 in 10-11 seconds. That is the time it took for those buildings to “collapse”. If you can do that I concede that those buildings failed structurally into their own footprint towards the path of most resistance.
Still not small office fire. It was bloody big office fire left to burn for several hours because the fire crews thought the building was going to collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture
Wikipedia mis-reports the NIST interim report then:
In its progress report, NIST released a video and still-photo analysis of 7 World Trade Center before its collapse that appears to indicate a greater degree of structural damage from falling debris than originally assumed by FEMA. Specifically, NIST’s interim report on 7 World Trade Center displays photographs of the southwest facade of the building that show it to have significant damage. The report also highlights a 10-story gash in the center of the south facade, toward the bottom, extending approximately a quarter of the way into the interior.[5][41] A unique aspect of the design of 7 World Trade Center was that each outer structural column was responsible for supporting 2,000 sq ft (186 m²) of floor space, suggesting that the simultaneous removal of a number of columns severely compromised the structure’s integrity.[42] Consistent with this theory, news footage shows cracking and bowing of the building’s east wall immediately before the collapse, which began at the penthouse floors.[5] In video of the collapse, taken from the north by CBS News and other news media, the first visible sign of collapse is movement in the east penthouse 8.2 seconds before the north wall began to collapse, which took at least another 7 seconds.
I know, I know, wikipedia. But still. The NIST report says something. It either says what wikipedia claims it says, or what you claim it says. Shall I check?
The madrid building wasn’t more fragile, it had a reinforced concrete central core, which survived, the steel shell around it collapsed though, about 2-3 hours in to the fire.
PB,
I take it you did not try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds then.
Buildings do not collapse due to fire in freefall speed into their own foot print because of gravity.
The fire was comparatively cold and the explanation from NIST has been peer reviewed and found wanting.
Here is a link to the NY times archives explaining the reinforcement of the building in 1989.
It was reinforced again to house the emergency bunker of Giuliani. It was supposed to be able to withstand a nuclear impact.
Here is a video which shows the explosion initiation bringing down the building in the afternoon. NIST denies explosions occurred.
Here is a video of an interview with Barry Jennings. Barry Jennings was the Deputy Director of Emergency Services Department for the New York City Housing Authority. He died under mysterious circumstances just before the NIST report was released. He describes explosions in the building when none of the two towers had collapsed yet and He describes how the first 6 floors just disappeared leaving the outer walls standing.
however, all I’m pointing out is that you keep saying it was a small fire, when video shows that it wasn’t, and that there was structural damage when you claim there was none, and that the NIST report doesn’t say what you claimed it says.
Given this, I’m not really inclined to trust things you have to say. That’s not my fault, it’s your fault. You say things that when checked turn out to not be true, or at the very least , wildy misleading.
It really really really will help you to convince people if you sort that problem out.
If that many building professionals want to know why a perfectly well build steel framed twice reinforced to withstand nuclear blasts collapses after a couple of hours of minor carbon fires within 6.5 seconds into its own footprint breaking all the laws of motion I’m happy to second that request
Is what I said PC. Compared to the Spanish and Chinese fire they were minor.
If you choose to ignore evidence of explosions (You’re not alone, NIST refused to address this), the fact that the building reinforced to withstand a nuclear blast did collapse in free fall speed 6.5 seconds into its own foot print against all laws of motion and physics and unseen before and after 911 than that is your prerogative, mate.
Thanks a bunch for keeping the thread alive because unlike you there are always people who do want to know and they get to learn about it this way.
For those of you wanting to meet other people who want to know the truth here is the forum you might want to visit and become a member from and here is once again the link to Architects and engineers for 911 truth. Here is the site for the fire fighters for 911 truth and here is a list of prominent patriots who want a new and independent investigation.
Why does political discourse have to be so violent Gosman?
And by the looks of your comment you will be aware that I have written expressing my concern that my private information may be held by the National Party and by Slater. Cameron has responded in his usual manner.
I am actually wondering about the benefit of debating some issues online. I don’t care about abuse myself, but I know a number of others who feel very threatened by the overly intrusive and abusive behaviour of some.
Are you suggesting my comments to you constitutes abuse?
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow about the credit card information that Cameron Slater might or might not have and the reason why you sent the e-mail to him when your issue seems to be with Cameron Slater and the Labour party has already stated that credit card information was not accessed.
Yes I did say your e-mail was whiny but that is my personal opinion of it when reading it. That is hardly constitutes abuse on any major level in my book but if you were horribly offended I must apologise profusely to you.
Sorry Gosman. I agree your comment was mild in comparison to many.
I was referring more to the stream of texts and emails I am currently receiving.
I am pretty thick skinned about it but I just had breakfast with a few others who have been considerably affected by the application of the internet blowtorch on them.
I actually sympathise with you on this. I inwardly cringed when I saw you included your contact details on the e-mail as I could imagine certain people would most likely use that information in rather nasty ways. I might disagree with your political view point but there really is no excuse for that sort of stuff.
I’m told (elsewhere on this thread) that a climate of political attack and abuse is essential for democracy to function, and to keep lprent in the country.
But (I presume) MS is not being abused by politicians or representatives of political parties. So how does your “new way of doing things” have anything to do with the current issues MS is having?
I was talking about my opinons I posted on and discussed here, about the example of political behaviour set by our so called leaders – that any tactics are fair game as long as you can get away with it. Behaviour that flows out, including to politically minded people who seem to think anything and anyone is fair game in the brawl for power.
I think it’s incredibly sad to see the amount of resources that go into trying to abuse and destroy in political circles. It goes far beyond democratic debate, it’s an excuse to be a power seeking arsehole.
I figured that would be your answer. But don’t you think they you are seriously exaggerating the potential benefits of your so-called ‘new way of doing things’? Obviously, behaviour of political minded people is influenced to some degree by our political leaders. But people aren’t suddenly going to start behaving like angels just because there is less dirt being thrown around at the top.
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow
Is that the same guy that the movie Goodfellas was named after? 😉
How do you threaten someone without threatening someone?
“Hey Mickey, look, you’ve been causing trouble here and you know it. Why would you do that when you know your mum has just had a heart attack and is recovering down at St Vincent’s? And your wife, she’s got that new job at the store down the road hasn’t she? I heard that she likes it there. Now your little Matty he’s at such a sensitive age looking to start school next month. So Mickey, if I were you, I’d just focus on making sure that your family stays healthy and happy, and not worrying about all this other political stuff.
Wrote to both to put them on notice and to ask for information they held concerning me. Slater responded rather briefly saying “F@#$ off”. His eloquence is mythical. I am thinking of seeking clarification of his position but it is a bit like poking a bear with a stick …
Bizarre -with one hand typing damning accusations of dirty tricks from the opposing party, and with the other hand dissing me for suggesting our opposition model of democracy is a tad bent.
So it hasn’t crossed your mind that people aren’t actually dissing you for saying that you aren’t happy with the present model, but are actually calling bullshit on your alternative proposal?
Interesting, Pete. That level of narcissism could take you a long way in your new career.
Pete, why must you resort to these filthy insinuations? Kumbaya mate! Remember?
Let us talk closely know and reason together a way out of this mess, a mess caused by your sad and pathetic wallowing in the politics of personal denigration. First admit that your idea is fail, and then agree with us to move forward, together.
Gerry the Butt is on air saying that he can’t say anything definite. It’s blindingly obvious he says that some people will have to shift. But he doesn’t want to state definite areas, ‘It is a big decision for people, it’s a lifetime investment, but the ducks have to be all lined up. Even after an announcement there will be a considerable time before people can move”.
Every comment he makes shows that he understands the position and then refuses to answer the questions, to make decisions because he has to make decisions that are ‘very, very robust’. Everyone wanting simplistic approaches are being unreasonable. So much for all his powers. I imagine that the decision to appoint him went like this – Gerry is such a mouthy livewire. His family know about timber. He knows about practical working with timber. He is a teacher, (who often think they know everything) and is not a shy communicator. He won’t be happy with his other positions. This will give him something to get his teeth into, which are false, and get him out of our hair here at NACT headquarters where he is a bit of a nit.
Last “It’s about fairness to the property owners”. By that he means, not making precipitate announcements, before all the possibilities have been gravely considered, chewed over like a cow’s cud, and finally excreted to the population. By all means they can’t be consulted with, have location meetings with management and engineers as they wish, who would explain the difficulties and possible and likely solutions and what the hold-ups are caused by. This is the authoritarian way.
Excerpt from the song Show Me from My Fair Lady – sing along!
Words! Words! Words! I’m so sick of words!
I get words all day through;
First from him, now from you!
Is that all you blighters can do?
Has anyone thought of a protest occupation at his place? You know, everyone bring one bucketful of liquefaction from their property to dump on his lawn, just to make a point.
cv That would be a newsworthy action. It seems we can otherwise only act like an army of primed mosquitoes buzzing and biting till he reacts. If we can inject some ideas viruses and set up an itch we might get action and move this organic pile for the benefit of all of Christchurch.
Next idea is that the east side parts to be abandoned for housing should be bought by Landcorp from CERA or other body and then turned into dairy farms. These would use best practice and be models showing good environmental practices using present understanding of using effluent safely. I understand that if treated properly the gases produced can be utilised for energy. Landcorp would hold environmental field days similar to Hamilton and attract farmers and the general public for demonstrations. Landcorp would also develop, assisted by locals, corridors of vegetation for birds etc. Some of the people who had had to abandon their previous houses would have the option of living in hamlets of suitable, practical, low-cost houses on suitable higher ground with a passing grade from engineers. These would be served by buses morning, lunchtime and evening so that they wouldn’t be isolated from the city and wouldn’t need a car to get to work.
I’ve never understood how in a country so full of cow shit, mushrooms can cost $12/kg! Using modern mycological methods we could drink the run off from dairy, but not while we assign more value to ipods than we do to chickens. They are just gaming it to see which way their corporations can make the most money from it and once they’ve been told what they are going to do,I’m sure they will let us all in on it. I thinking your all expecting a little too much from someone who obviously has someone else hand up his am I allowed to say that? I better go read more policy 🙂
whilst the poodles were licking their wounds, and the journos were playing three card Monty with the truth, it seems the Education Minister has been busy planning the destruction of one of the few programmes that has consistently helped thousands of POOR children recieve much needed assistance for over fifty years
Tolley wants to close the Health Camps and is not saying what will replace them
This is a very serious attack on one of our country’s most internationally applauded Child-assistance policies. Does anyone have any detail? http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/5140699/Letter-an-insult-to-board
I do know that Health Camps became a sort of mis-nomer years ago. Used to be just for kids who were sick.
But now it is a respite for desperate kids suffering from abuse and learning difficulties and general needs. Kids are there for a limited time and get regular meals, regular recreation, and regular schooling. Suppose the problem is in what happens to those kids after the Camp.
No, my friend was raped by one of the ‘leaders’ at the health camp. I look back at those six weeks as a time that I learnd to harden my heart and really start to hate the world. If there ever was a FAIL in the states attempts to fix my broken family, then this camp was definitely one of them. I do not know of a single other kid who liked or benefited in their time there, far too much like a “getting you ready for prison” and “boot camp” to be anything other than a tool instilling repression in our youth. Good Riddance!
‘Lack of certainty is killing the spirit and economy of Christchurch’
OK. Here is some certainties:
1. Global extraction of conventioanl oil has peaked, so current economic arrangements will disintegrate over the next decade. The globalised, industrialised food system will collapse..
2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered, substantial sea level rise that will cover much of Canterbury is more or less inevitable over coming decades. i.e. Christchurch doesn’t have a long term future.
3. Politicians serve their own interests, and the interests of bankiers and corporations. Any ‘solutions’ they come up with will therefore primarily be for the benefit politicians, bankers and corporations. Since peak oil and abrupt climate change are taboo topics for them, their ‘solutions’ will be completely disconnected from reality.
4. Most people are ignorant of the facts and don’t believe the truth when it is provided.
5 The most important item on the agenda of politicians and the media at this stage in the game is to keep ‘the proles’ misinformed and believing in the system – a bit like Fukishima: ‘everything is under control’.
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come. (Of course, those who run early get the best spots.)
[lprent: This sidetracked way to far from the post. Next time I see you do this, you will get a *long* ban. moving whole thread to OpenMike. ]
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come.
In the kind of apocolyptic scenario you are thinking of those who are isolated in the ‘hills’ will be the first to be picked off. It will be those who have strong communities around them who will survive.
You should look at the post-Soviet experience in Russia during the 1990’s to get a better model of what is more likely to happen.
Yeah and Fukushima is a worry. The cover up is worse than Chernobyl.
“2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered,”
Which positive feedbacks have been triggered? Last news I heard was that were potentially heading into a Maunder Minimum, giving us several decades of cold weather.
How can the earth be at “peak oil” when we’re yet to reach peak exploration? Get a grip! I heard this sort of doomsday meanderings back in the 1970s. Why don’t you google “fracking” then re-phrase what you loosely call “known facts?” Idiot!
Micky wrote to Goodfellow and ccd Slater on the email. It was a strange, rambling email that accused all sorts of high crimes on behalf of National for which Micky has no evidence while purportedly defending Labour’s unlawful and non-existent lack of security on its data.
Micky then told Slater he was free to publish the email but only in its entirety. Is it any wonder that Slater did so, and included the contact details that Micky left which were on the email, following Micky’s request to publish in entirety?
Micky if you are Labour’s legal counsel then Labour really is up shit creek. Cam Slater’s blog isn’t even subject to the Privacy Act, so good luck trying to shift that shit up a hill.
There has been some recent publicity concerning the National Party’s downloading of information from a Labour Party server which regrettably was not as secure as it might be.
From today’s National Business Review I note that you have confirmed that a National Party staff member “accessed” the data. By this I anticipate that you mean “downloaded”. The data has also regrettably found its way into the hands of Mr Cameron Slater.
I am pretty sure that some of the data was mine. I donated to the Labour Party to purchase some “Stop Asset Sales” signs as I considered this a worthy cause to support. The idea of selling an interest in our power companies to essentially overseas interests is frankly insane. I paid for the signs by credit card and I am concerned that the National Party now has my credit card’s details.
You can imagine the worry that this has caused me. It is bad enough that your party has my credit card details but there is the strong possibility that your organisation has also facilitated Cameron Slater aka Whaleoil to obtain the same information. I cannot imagine what he will do with this information.
So I seek the following from you:
1. Advice on what data your organisation holds concerning me.
2. Your organisation’s undertaking that it will not disclose any information that it holds concerning me to any third party.
3. Details of information already supplied to Mr Slater concerning the security problems that the Labour Party server had.
4. Details of information supplied to any third party which may include data that relates to me.
Please note that if I suffer any monetary loss because of the actions of your organisation then I reserve the right to seek damages.
I am sending a copy of this email to Mr Slater so that he is also placed on notice. I also seek the same information from him. If he does anything that causes me loss then I reserve the right to seek redress from him personally.
I note that Mr Slater has chosen to print previous emails from Chris Flatt. He is at liberty to print this email but only in full.
Finally please note that I require a response within the next seven days. “
Don’t you think you made a bit of a major assumption there that the National party organisation supplied Cameron Slater with this information.
I’m not sure if people in the organisation had publically come out and denied they had when you wrote off to them but if they had what were you expecting them to say about this? Were you hoping you would catch them out with them stating ‘Well we didn’t give him any of your credit card details so you dont have to w…. D’oh!’?
Also is this a formal legal request for your information back and if so did you formally direct a request to Cameron Slater as well? If not, why haven’t you made a formal legal request, you are after all a lawyer?
Micky you have no evidence that the Naitonal Party supplied anything to Slater. In fact you have denials from both the President and Slater himself that any such supply took place. The only pseudo-evidence you have is unsubstantiated allegations made by anonymous bloggers and commenters here at the Standard. Unless you’re preparing to have them appear as witnesses in Court to substantiate their claims which I don’t imagine would please them, then you are pushing shit up hill. I realise you are emotionally fraught at the moment but you would be better off blaming the Labour Party for publishing your personal details on the internet rather than trying to be a nuisance to the National Party who will just laugh your silly attention-seeking correspondence away.
Read Pagani’s blog for a human readable version. The logs are pretty clear if you (like we do) have a record of IP’s that access our site and you look at the back trace.
Quite frankly I think that Goodfellow doesn’t know what people in his organization do. After all someone there has been feeding dirt on him to Whale for some time. You perhaps…
Cameron Slater is a serial liar and completely untrustworthy. If he states something is a fact, then the highest probability is that is largely a fabrication. That is quite easy for me to prove, I’d just point to the various lies he has made about me and the organizations I worked for over the years.
If someone wants to sue on that basis, then go right ahead.
Could be me, but I doubt it Lyn since I’m not actually part of the National Party organisation. But I tell you what, if you go and put a disclaimer about all the party associations that your bloggers have you will have a right to make snide remarks about right wing commenters here. But you might want to read your About policy first.
You have interesting IP’s and I have seen them before, which tends to make me suspicious. They are covered by the privacy provisions policy but I do scan them when I start putting people into moderation.
BTW: Since we’re talking about accuracy. My name is Lynn, and my partners name is Lyn. I keep thinking that you’re talking to someone else. Use lprent or Lynn please.
There is no disclaimer there of all the party associations of your bloggers Lyn and I wouldn’t expect them to be such, so if you want to go around insinuating party associations of commenters here that’s your choice because it’s your blog, but don’t expect me to think it’s an intellectually consistent approach to take.
Yes there is. They are of the labour movement. A couple of us are Labour party members. Some are union members. Some have no known memberships but will state who they will vote for. Some bemoan that there is no party they will vote for.
At last count there are 30 odd people who have author rights here. Some haven’t used them for some time but did so extensively in the past. Others have only written a couple of posts. If you want to know what there affiliations are – then stop being so damn lazy and read their posts.
You know I didn’t ask for their associations so stop putting up bloody straw men and then getting all pissy on it when I don’t bite. I said you do not publish the party associations of your bloggers. Saying they are of the “labour movement” is not a disclaimer. Write what you like, it’s your blog. You’ve accused me of being a National Party insider who might pass things onto Whale and I’ve said your wrong. Keep that in mind next time you ban somebody for saying one of your bloggers is a Labour Party apparatchik. In the meantime that is not the topic of this discussion and you know it.
I would say that is a pretty clear disclaimer. It covers everyone who authors here because apart from the small number of original authors, it has been there since just after the site started.
You’re not one of those silly buggers that thinks a site like this can be run out of a political organization are you? Bear in mind that the two Bills, the spout and some of the others are usually pretty trenchant critics of the Labour party. Also I don’t think much of the Greens or anyone left of the right of the Labour Party. That this site could be run by a political party that was always a bit of a jerk-off fantasy by the right bloggers losing readers.
Ah, here we go. The little abrasiveness remarks, ignoring requests for the right name use and the accusations of not being intellectually consistent. Yep.
Don’t let him get to you Iprent. He isn’t worth it.
You seem to be making the mistake of assuming that because you have evidence of Cameron Slater lying in the past that must mean everything he states subsequently must also be a lie AND that the opposite position from what he has stated about something must be the truth. That is hardly a persuassive argument.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact. I think that he doesn’t truly distinguish between them. I’ve even looked at a couple of his posts on weapons, checked the specs and found that his assertions of fact have no basis in reality.
He is a entertaining storyteller for the credulous right, but you can’t rely on what he says because he routinely embellishes facts so they are unrecognizable.
Some of that happens in some authors posts here as well. But generally they clearly distinguish between what is fact and what is their opinion. Apart from anything else we have a far more active comments section with a much wider range of people who comment. Someone from some viewpoint will tear loose statements of fact apart as embarrassingly as possible. Authors learn that pretty fast.
And yes, you’re correct. I assume that anything that Whale says is wrong until proven otherwise. Why? Because my (and probably most peoples) experience of reading his stuff is that the more breathless his claims are, the more likely it is that he fabricated most of it.
I don’t rely on what Cameron Slater states however that doesn’t mean that the opposite must in fact be true. You should still weigh up the balance of probabilities and evidence.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact.
That can also apply to many of the posts here, laughably (or sadly) appearing as extreme propaganda. Just look at the headlines. Those that want them to be true will buy them, but they are hardly going to convince anyone else of a political alternative with any competence.
I know this isn’t a Labour blog – I agree, a party couldn’t do something like this – but a notable proportion of the posts here do nothing to help make Labour look like it has anywhere near recovered from 2008.
Whether the extreme posting comes from Labour or not the perceived link is there and it’s easy to think you wouldn’t want that lot anywhere near the liquor cabinet let alone cabinet in parliament.
The quality of writing you should be concerned about as a budding young politician with 15 years of private sector R&D experience is not at The Standard, it is within the MSM.
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.
He said today National had written to Labour to say it had not passed on any information and did not intend to.”
It does not say that they didn’t instruct Whale about how to get access to it himself. Which is what is being suggested by felix
BTW: Looks like that took Whale some time to get right. The logs show him as being somewhat tentative. Whoever was doing it at the National part was better technically.
You’re the accuser here lyn, you have to prove your case with evidence. You have made assumptions based on plausibility, not inspected evidence and weighed up probabilities. They aren’t the same thing.
Goodfellow also didn’t deny that he was the shooter on the grassy knoll. Are you going to call the FBI to insist they make an arrest?
So far I haven’t even seen any evidence that Slater has done, or will do, anything illegal with the data. If you or somebody else could enlighten me on that I would be very grateful.
What Lynn says (I apologise I’ve been calling him Lyn accidentally) on this is diversion and not backed up by evidence. If you want examples of third party attacks then you only have to look at the attacks that Pagani and Micky did on Simon Lusk and Whale a few weeks back before Trevor got in on the act. And if you are talking about third party attacks on political opponents by proxy then it would be very rich for that allegation to be coming from bloggers here at the Standard.
As for the plausibility of Lynn’s claim of an association between Whale and the National Party, are you fucking serious? Whale fucking hates the National Party, has as far as I know never said anything nice about Goodfellow (in fact he waged a no-holds barred campaign against him) and would quite happily see them stomped into the ground with Act taking their place.
Simon Lusk is someone whose name I did not know until recently. He is implicated in the take over of the ACT party and also the anti MMP campaign. He is high up in the National Party and has significant links to the Beehive and Joyce. His name starts getting mentioned and then PC shows up and takes umbrage at this. Why the sensitivity?
I would not describe comments about Lusk as being “attacks”. He appears to me to be very competent at what he does.
Of course I could speculate at PC’s links to Lusk but lprent would not like it …
You can speculate all you like Micky, just as you speculated on Lusk and his so called high up connections in the Beehive which sound more like more fantasy from you of the kind that had you send the silliest lawyer’s letter to Peter Goodfellow that I have seen in a very long time. I’ve never met the guy and I tend to think if he was such a mover and shaker in the National Party more people would have heard of him.
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.”
Love it, I have a possible vulnerability on my computer so I take the liberty of testing it on somebody elses without their permission. Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
I would say definite comprehension and logical deductive reasoning problems. Have just commented on such to PC on “Silence of the Poodles” .Potty Control would seem to be a more appropriate moniker as a constant self reminder. “Must control pottiness, must control pottiness…….’
Reading about Christchurch Mayor Bob Parker stating he would not continue if he couldn’t have his choice of City Manager struck warning bells in my mind. It sounds like a step along the path to American cronyism.
There a leader (mayor) gets elected, and can sack the administration and bureaucrats of the previous leader and instal his own handpicked people. Our idea has been that the bureaucrats are largely servants of the government working under the law for the people and serving whichever party gets into power in parliament. But they are supposed to be able to offer free and frank advice that is not partial to the leader’s whims and bents. It’s a good idea and it shouldn’t be countenanced to have it subverted.
Your labour party handlers told you to say that when you ran out of lies to distract from Labour breaking the law by not protecting personal data didn’t they felix?
Travellerev if I can go to the effort of correcting myself when I spell Lynn’s name wrong then you can at least go to the effort of spelling my uncle Lynton’s name right. It’s CROSBY.
Yeah, these Labour party handlers are driving me nuts actually Codpiece Potion. I just want to do beat poetry but they’re holding me back and stifling my creativity.
but if we don’t have handlers, how do we know what to say? It’s not like we’d just like honestly believe that the governments objective is just to favour the rich and fuck the country…
Why is Simon Power giving a speech in the General Debate, that focuses on attacking Goff’s leadership?
Oh and Finlayson is accusing Labour MPs of engaging in trivialities like flame wars & cycle races.
Yes, it seems to be a constant diversionary activity for National to bash Goff.
Surely Finlayson can’t be serious, accusing Labour of not being serious about the important and urgent politics because they do blogging stuff, and cycle rides. Meanwhile, where is JonKey? Dancing awkwardly down a fashion runway? Joking his way from one photo op to the next? And as for his stand-up routine that he used to deliver his budget speech?
Carol, the problem with mud slinging from the Nats regarding Goff is that mud just may be slung back. What a dirty tricks election it is going to be. The Nats have to watch their back as they never know when a blogger will pull them up for a similar thing they are accusing a Labour MP about.
Since about 21.00 last night, I have been reading newspaper clippings I had put in a big envelope dated from 1989 to 1996. I am very depressed to see that everything NACT are doing has been done before – in 1984-99. some changes are so long standing that I had forgotten things were ever different. Yellow Buses for instance – have been owned by the international company Stagecoach since at least 1993, yet I had forgotten that they were ever Government (or Council) owned until among my clippings I found a heap of objections to Jenny Schippelfat selling Yellow Buses off…. It is mega-depressing that it’s all deja vu all over again – the same anti-bemeficiary letters to the Ed., the same replies – the same think tanks putting their ideas forward. It’s all worse now though – in 1991-2, there was great indignation about DPB women being work-tested when their youngest child was 7 years old. Good grief, that was bad enough…. One thing I have noticed – I came across only one reference to DPB women ‘breeding for a living”. Maybe that meme hadn’t got started then, or it wasn’t widespread? Or maybe I just didn’t save in this inadvertent time capsule, any reference to it?
The more we change the more we stay the same. Your research is a bit depressing isn’t it Vicky. Sad to think that the population isn’t outraged by the thought of “making” mothers go back to work when the child is 12 months. Remember when Key suggested 6 years last year? He got away with that and so they seem hell bent on getting away with the sooner.
Wonder how many mothers (fathers?) on DPB would be affected and how many kids?
Oh yes, it’s deeply depressing! (I still have more clippings to go through, I am deciding what to get rid of, as I will one way or another, possibly, I hope, be moving soon!) It’s amazing how much rubbish one accumulates over 15 years in the same dump!) The scary thing is that in all those years, nothing has permanently changed…, (From 1999 to 2008, it did, but the changes didn’t stick..)
Boiling of frogs springs to mind. People now accept things they would have argued against in the 90s…
Green Party MP Metiria Turei asked some very important questions of John Key in Parliament today. Once again, the Prime Minister wasn’t there so Bill English tried to answer for the absentee leader.
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Todd Muller has made a good start to his leadership, though it would obviously be pretty stupid to extrapolate too much from the first couple of days. Nevertheless, as a matter of speculation, it is interesting to think what success on his part might say about the preferences of the ...
A guest post by Hamish Price.“A leader is a dealer in hope.”— Napoléon BonaparteCatholics have a name for potential successors to a dead pope. Papabile. The small coterie of distinguished cardinals who have what it takes to step up. Todd Muller has always been one.I first met Muller at a National ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, May 17 through Sat, May 23, 2020Editor's ChoiceMore than 80 killed in India and Bangladesh as Cyclone Amphan heaps misery on coronavirus-hit areasA man salvages items from ...
Two poor political polls within the same week had seen National for the first time in over a decade dropping major support in the face of a competent and assured COVID-19 health response from the Coalition government. Step forward the relatively unknown Todd Muller, who by Friday afternoon had secured ...
SUNDAY MAY 24The Luminaries (TVNZ 1, 8.30pm). There are an awful lot of indeterminate accents in The Luminaries; even lead Eve Hewson seems undecided about being Irish, and she is Irish. Fair play, accents can go badly wrong, so perhaps not over-egging was a consideration. Marton Csokas, always impeccable, and Himesh Patel ...
SUNDAY MAY 24The Luminaries (TVNZ 1, 8.30pm). There are an awful lot of indeterminate accents in The Luminaries; even lead Eve Hewson seems undecided about being Irish, and she is Irish. Fair play, accents can go badly wrong, so perhaps not over-egging was a consideration. Marton Csokas, always impeccable, and Himesh Patel ...
Let’s be honest; Simon Bridges was a disaster of a political leader. If he wasn’t attempting to criticise the Government’s perfectly good policy initiatives that the public generally supported, he was fudging his lines after getting caught out in yet another lie. When Jami-Lee Ross said Bridges “is a flawed individual ...
The media treat budgets as bit of a circus: lots of theatre and soon forgotten. For a serious economist they show how a team of economists is thinking about the wider economy. The 2020 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) was the most difficult forecasting exercise in the history of ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First New Zealand First is disappointed that the removal of the spousal deductions has had to be delayed by the Ministry fo Social Development, due to COVID19 workload pressures. “New Zealand First has always stood for fairness when it comes to superannuation ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First On the steps of Parliament today the Leader of New Zealand First, Rt Hon Winston Peters received a petition from registered nurse Anna Maria Coervers, requesting an amendment to the Protection for First Responders Bill which will ensure the legislation also include registered ...
It's been a busy seven days as we start to rebuild New Zealand together. From delivering extra support for small businesses, to investing in our artists and arts organisations, to cutting red tape on home DIY projects, we're rolling out our plan to get the economy and New Zealand moving ...
Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters says alert level 2 restrictions have to be discussed during today's Cabinet meeting. Thousands gathered across the country, including at Parliament, yesterday forBlack Lives Matter marcheswhere social distancing and mass gathering rules were flouted. Mr Peters said the breaching of Alert Level 2 rules at ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of State Owned Enterprises KiwiRail’s Northland rail upgrade steps up another gear today and will help Northland recover from the impacts of COVID-19, State Owned Enterprises Minister Winston Peters says. The Government is investing $204.5 million through the Provincial Growth Fund to ...
“Today and every day we stand in solidarity with George Floyd’s family, friends and community who feel pain and fear about his untimely death at the hands of Minneapolis police”, said Green Party Co-leader and Māori Development spokesperson Marama Davidson. ...
Fletcher Tabuteau, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Hon Eugenie Sage, Minister of Conservation The West Coast forests of Mount Te Kinga at Kotuku Whakaoho/Lake Brunner are the latest predator free project to receive Government funding, announced Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage and Under Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher ...
The Green Party says major freshwater reforms announced today provide the strongest ever protections of our waterways, to help ensure the next generation can swim in the rivers of Aotearoa. ...
The Green Party has begun the process for a Select Committee inquiry into student accommodation, which has been exposed during COVID-19 as an under-regulated sector that straddles students with unfair debt. ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Hon Megan Woods, Minister of Research, Science and Innovation Hon Dr David Clark, Minister of Health Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters, Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods, and Health Minister David Clark today announced a COVID-19 vaccine strategy, ...
Budget 2020 is about rebuilding together, supporting jobs, getting business moving and the books back into the black. It’s an integral part of our COVID-19 economic response, and our plan to grow our economy and get New Zealand moving again.Here’s a quick look at the five top things you ...
The Coalition Government has approved $206 million in essential upgrades at Ōhakea Air Base. Defence Minister Ron Mark said the money would be spent on improving old infrastructure. He said safety issues would be addressed, as well as upgrades to taxiways, accommodation and fresh, storm and waste water systems. "This ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First “I am not persisting with this case just for myself, but for all people who have had their privacy breached. Privacy of information is a cornerstone of our country’s democracy. Without it our society truly faces a bleak future. We now ...
Forestry Minister Shane Jones has introduced a Bill to Parliament that he says will "force more transparency, integrity and respect" for the domestic wood-processing sector through the registration of log traders and practice standards. The Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill had its first reading in ...
Green MP Golriz Ghahraman is joining over 300 lawmakers from around the world in calling on the big banks and the IMF to forgive the debt of developing countries, in the wake of the COVID crisis. ...
Forestry Minister Shane Jones says concerns that carbon foresters are planting pine trees that will never be harvested are the result of "misinformation". "The billion tree strategy is an excellent idea, unfortunately from time to time it's tainted by misinformation spread by the National Party or their grandees, hiding in scattered ...
The Green Party welcomes funding in the budget to reunite more refugees with their families, ensuring they have the best chance at a new life in Aotearoa New Zealand. ...
This year’s Budget is about rebuilding New Zealand together in the face of COVID-19. Jobs are central to how we’re going to do that.There’s a lot of targeted investment for employment in this year’s Budget, with announcements on creating new jobs, training people for the jobs we have, and supporting ...
Young people in Waikato will be the first to have free access to period products in schools in another step to support children and young people in poverty,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. During term 3, the Ministry of Education will begin providing free period products to schools following the ...
The Minister of Police Stuart Nash has issued the following statement in response to charges filed against three Police officers this morning in the New Plymouth District Court. “Any incident involving a loss of life in Police custody is taken very seriously. The charges today reflect the gravity of the ...
Further temporary changes to NCEA and University Entrance (UE) will support senior secondary school students whose teaching and learning have been disrupted by COVID-19. “The wellbeing of students and teachers is a priority. As we are all aware, COVID-19 has created massive disruption to the school system, and the Government ...
Minister for Racing Winston Peters today announced that the terms for the directors of the Racing Industry Transition Agency (RITA) have been extended to 30 June 2021. Due to the COVID-19 crisis the transition period has been extended to ensure that the Racing Industry Bill can complete its progress through ...
The deadline for landlords to include detailed information in their tenancy agreements about how their property meets the Healthy Homes Standards, so tenants can see the home they are renting is compliant, has been extended from 1 July 2020 to 1 December 2020. The Healthy Homes Standards became law on 1 July 2019. The Standards are ...
Justice Minister Andrew Little today announced details of further appointments to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. “I am pleased to announce Paula Rose QSO OStJ as Deputy Chief Commissioner for a term of five years commencing on 15 June 2020,” said Andrew Little. “I am also pleased to announce the ...
The Targeted Training and Apprenticeships Fund (TTAF) will pay costs of learners of all ages to undertake vocational education and training The fund will target support for areas of study and training that will give learners better employment prospects as New Zealand recovers from COVID-19 Apprentices working in all industries ...
The Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) will finally start to cut New Zealand’s greenhouse gas pollution as it was originally intended to, because of changes announced today by the Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw. The changes include a limit on the total emissions allowed within the ETS, rules to ensure ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says the Queen’s Birthday 2020 Honours List provides an abundance of examples that Pacific people’s leadership capability is unquestionable in Aotearoa. “The work and the individuals we acknowledge this year highlights the kind of visionary examples and dedicated community leadership that we need ...
The Government is backing a new $27 million project aimed at boosting sustainable horticulture production and New Zealand’s COVID-19 recovery efforts, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “Our horticulture sector has long been one of New Zealand’s export star performers, contributing around $6 billion a year to our economy. During and ...
Applications have opened for 2021 Ngā Karahipi Uru Rākau – Forestry Scholarships, which will support more Māori and women to pursue careers in forestry science, says Forestry Minister Shane Jones. “I’m delighted Te Uru Rākau is offering Ngā Karahipi Uru Rākau – Forestry Scholarships for the third year running. These ...
The Queen’s Birthday 2020 Honours List once again highlights the dedication by many to looking after our native plants and wildlife, including incredible work to restore the populations of critically endangered birds says Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage. Anne Richardson of Hororata has been made an Officer of the New ...
The Government will invest $10 million from the One Billion Trees Fund for large-scale planting to provide jobs in communities and improve the environment, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor and Forestry Minister Shane Jones have announced. New, more flexible funding criteria for applications will help up to 10 catchment groups plant ...
Organisations that support women are invited to apply to a new $1,000,000 fund as part of the Government’s COVID-19 response. “We know women, and organisations that support women, have been affected by COVID-19. This new money will ensure funding for groups that support women and women’s rights,” said Minister for ...
Healthier waterways are front and centre in a new project involving more than 300 King Country sheep, beef and dairy farmers. The Government is investing $844,000 in King Country River Care, a group that helps farmers to lift freshwater quality and farming practice, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor announced today. “Yesterday ...
A major funding package for libraries will allow them to play a far greater role in supporting their communities and people seeking jobs as part of the economic recovery from COVID-19. “Budget 2020 contains over $60 million of funding to protect library services and to protect jobs,” says Internal Affairs ...
A jobseekers programme for the creative sector and four new funds have been set up by the Government to help our arts and music industry recover from the blow of COVID-19. Thousands of jobs will be supported through today’s $175 million package in a crucial economic boost to support the ...
Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has welcomed the First Reading of a Bill that will make legislative changes to further improve the veterans’ support system. The Veterans’ Support Amendment Bill No 2, which will amend the Veterans’ Support Act 2014, passed First Reading today. The bill addresses a number of ...
Views sought on Order in Council to help fast track the reinstatement of the Christ Church Cathedral The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Hon Poto Williams, will be seeking public written comment, following Cabinet approving the drafting of an Order in Council aimed at fast-tracking the reinstatement of the ...
The law setting out New Zealanders’ basic civil and human rights is today one step towards being strengthened following the first reading of a Bill that requires Parliament to take action if a court says a statute undermines those rights. At present, a senior court can issue a ‘declaration of ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters today reiterated the deep concern of the New Zealand Government following confirmation by China’s National People’s Congress of national security legislation relating to Hong Kong. “New Zealand shares the international community’s significant and long-standing stake in Hong Kong’s prosperity and stability,” Mr Peters said. “New Zealand ...
Thousands of artists and creatives at hundreds of cultural and heritage organisations have been given much-needed support to recover from the impact of COVID-19, Prime Minister and Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Jacinda Ardern announced today. “The cultural sector was amongst the worst hit by the global pandemic,” Jacinda ...
Key New Zealand assets will be better protected from being sold to overseas owners in a way contrary to the national interest, with the passage of the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Bill. The Bill, which passed its third reading in Parliament today, also cuts unnecessary red tape to help attract ...
Setting higher health standards at swimming spots Requiring urban waterways to be cleaned up and new protections for urban streams Putting controls on higher-risk farm practices such as winter grazing and feed lots Setting stricter controls on nitrogen pollution and new bottom lines on other measures of waterway health Ensuring ...
The Government is on the verge of reaching its target of state sector boards and committees made up of at least 50 percent women, says Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter and Minister for Ethnic Communities Jenny Salesa. For the first time, the Government stocktake measures the number of Māori, ...
The Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister and Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media Minister, Kris Faafoi, has today announced the appointment of Tristan Gilbertson as the new Telecommunications Commissioner and member of the Commerce Commission. “Mr Gilbertson has considerable experience in the telecommunications industry and a strong reputation amongst his peers,” ...
The Ministry of Education and NZEI Te Riu Roa have agreed to settle the pay equity claim for teacher aides, Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. This will see more than 22,000 teacher aides, mostly women, being valued and paid fairly for the work they do. “Teacher aides are frontline ...
Subcontractors will have greater certainty, more cashflow support and job security with new changes to retention payments under the Construction Contracts Act says Minister for Building and Construction, Jenny Salesa. A recent review of the retentions money regime showed that most of the building and construction sector is complying with ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong have marked the first anniversary of the New Zealand-Singapore Enhanced Partnership with a virtual Leaders’ Meeting today. The Enhanced Partnership, signed on 17 May 2019, provides the framework for cooperation across the four main areas of trade, defence and ...
On 17 May 2019, New Zealand and Singapore established an Enhanced Partnership to elevate our relations. The Enhanced Partnership – based on the four pillars of trade and economics, security and defence, science, technology and innovation, and people-to-people links – has seen the long-standing relationship between our countries strengthen over the ...
State-Owned Enterprises Minister Winston Peters has welcomed KiwiRail’s announcement that it is seeking a preferred shipyard to build two new rail-enabled ferries for the Cook Strait crossing. “This Government is committed to restoring rail to its rightful place in New Zealand. Bigger, better ships, with new technology are yet another ...
Better protection for seabirds is being put in place with a new National Plan of Action to reduce fishing-related captures, Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash and Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage announced today. The National Plan of Action for Seabirds 2020 outlines our commitment to reduce fishing-related captures and associated seabird ...
Almost $1 billion in interest-free loans for small businesses More than 55,000 businesses have applied; 95% approved Average loan approx. $17,300 90% of applications from firms with ten or fewer staff A wide cross-section of businesses have applied, the most common are the construction industry, accommodation providers, professional firms, and ...
Thousands of children will have healthier lungs after the Government’s ban on smoking in cars with kids becomes law, says Associate Minister of Health Jenny Salesa. This comes after the third reading of Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill earlier today. “This law makes it ...
The special Epidemic Response Committee (ERC) has successfully concluded its role, Leader of the House Chris Hipkins said today. The committee was set up on 25 March by the agreement of Parliament to scrutinise the Government and its actions while keeping people safe during levels 4 and 3 of lockdown. ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters today announced four diplomatic appointments: New Zealand’s Ambassador to Belgium, High Commissioners to Nauru and Niue, and Ambassador for Counter-Terrorism. “As the world seeks to manage and then recover from COVID-19, our diplomatic and trade networks are more important than ever,” Mr Peters said. “The ...
New Zealanders will be better protected from online harm through a Bill introduced to Parliament today, says Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin. “The internet brings many benefits to society but can also be used as a weapon to spread harmful and illegal content and that is what this legislation targets,” ...
New Zealand’s world-first plan to eradicate the cattle disease Mycoplasma bovis is on track the latest technical data shows, says Agriculture and Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor. “Two years ago the Government, DairyNZ and Beef + Lamb New Zealand and industry partners made a bold decision to go hard and commit ...
Further support for New Zealanders affected by 1-in-100 year global economic shock 12-week payment will support people searching for new work or retraining Work programme on employment insurance to support workers and businesses The Government today announced a new temporary payment to support New Zealanders who lose their jobs due ...
The Provincial Growth Fund will play a vital role in New Zealand’s post-COVID-19 recovery by creating jobs in shorter timeframes through at least $600 million being refocused on projects with more immediate economic benefits, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. The funding is comprised of repurposed Provincial Growth ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Purnendra Jain, Adjunct Professor, Asian Studies, University of Adelaide Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi will finally hold a virtual summit this week after efforts to meet in person were scuttled by the bushfires and coronavirus. The meeting ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anna-Sophie Jürgens, Lecturer (Assistant Professor) in Popular Entertainment Studies and Science in Fiction Studies, Australian National University Bloodsucker, leech, tick – few things have a reputation worse than parasites. But these biological hangers-on also have a comic cultural history. In biology, a ...
By RNZ News The organisers of Black Lives Matter protests in several main centres will not be prosecuted. On Monday, thousands gathered at several events around the country for Black Lives Matter marches in solidarity with protesters in the United States after the police killing of George Floyd. The protests ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Fletcher, Senior Research Fellow, Institute for Governance and Policy Studies, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington One of New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s favourite exhortations is that we all “be kind” to one another. It’s part of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University A go-slow on spending sent the economy backwards 0.3% in the first three months of this year, only the fourth such decline since Australia was last in recession in the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Heidi Zimmer, Research associate, Southern Cross University As bushfires blackened forests last summer, one tree species was protected by a specialist team of firefighters: the Wollemi pine. These trees have a deeply ancient lineage dating back to when dinosaurs walked Gondwana 100 ...
Children's Minister Tracey Martin says she was never officially asked to do anything about the Māori-led inquiry into Oranga Tamariki commissioned by Whanau Ora. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alison Whittaker, Research Fellow, University of Technology Sydney You probably know the details of the death of George Floyd. He was a doting father and musician. He was killed when a police officer, Derek Chauvin, knelt on his neck for nearly nine ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Greste, Professor of Journalism and Communications, The University of Queensland Here is a line from the latest safety advisory for reporters issued by the US-based Committee for the Protection of Journalists (CPJ): Taking into account the increased levels of violence ...
Aaron Ironside is the new spokesperson for the Say Nope To Dope campaign. Aaron Ironside rose to prominence in the 1990’s as the anchor of Radio Hauraki’s popular Morning Pirates breakfast show. The young rock DJ fully embraced the Sex, Drugs and ...
AgResearch chairman Dr Paul Reynolds said the Government’s capital contribution of $45 million towards a new education, science and innovation precinct in Lincoln is a huge boost for New Zealand’s COVID 19 recovery plan and the contribution to ...
Dunedin writer Victor Billot on America's "President Cheezel". Go Big or Go Home Prezident Cheezel deletes lockdown, deletes the World Health Organization, deletes the memory of George Floyd, then hunkers in his hunker bunker, hunkers with freedom fries at midnight, a lights out party at the House of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Locke, Research Associate, LCT Centre for Knowledge-Building, Department of Sociology and Social Policy, University of Sydney Prime Scott Morrison last week outlined a plan to create jobs and revitalise the economy post COVID-19. Part of this so-called Jobmaker plan includes an ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nicola Willand, Lecturer, School of Property, Construction and Project Management, RMIT University Stay-at-home orders and the economic crisis have increased the burden of energy costs on lower-income Australians. Poor housing quality and unequal access to home energy efficiency are hurting our most ...
Jacinda Ardern has unveiled details of the changes New Zealanders can expect when we move from level two to level one. What will it mean for businesses, hospitality and day-to-day life? Level one! At last, life is finally back to normal.Not so fast. We’re still in level two, and will be ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kantha Dayaram, Associate Professor, Curtin University The number of Australians working from home has soared during the COVID-19 crisis. Latest data from the Australian Bureau of Stastistics shows 46% of the workforce worked from home in late April and early May. By ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Economic Life, Economics and EconomismKeith Rankin. When things go wrong with economic life, it’s easy to blame economics; that is, the academic discipline called ‘economics’. We all live economic lives, and use metaphors to give meaning to that amorphous thing we call ‘the economy’ ...
National survey asks New Zealanders If They Support Recognition For the Contribution of Our Service Personnel and their Families The Royal New Zealand Returned and Services Association (RSA) said today that it supports the proposal for a Kawenata which is ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says there will still be strict controls on the border, but all current rules and restrictions on businesses and services will be "essentially lifted" under alert level 1. ...
ANALYSIS:By Philip Russo of Monash University The death of African-American man George Floyd at the hands of police has sparked protests across the United States and inspired many people to reflect on our own history of police violence against Indigenous people in Australia and New Zealand. After thousands marched ...
The New Zealand Police Association is supporting the three officers who are now facing manslaughter charges in relation to the death of a man in the Hawera Police Station cells in June last year. Association President Chris Cahill says the officers ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Associate Professor, Criminology and Justice Studies, RMIT University As we have been cooped up at home during coronavirus lockdown, reports of image-based abuse have skyrocketed. According to Australia’s eSafety Commissioner, it received more than 1,000 reports of image-based abuse between ...
In the third part of our series with Kiwibank answering your questions about Covid-19’s impact on New Zealanders’ finances, two readers at different ends of their saving journeys ask what to do with their KiwiSaver account. Melissa Vasta, Kiwi Wealth GM retail and product, responds.Hi Melissa, My KiwiSaver ‘growth’ fund has ...
Landlords have been given a break – well, a bit of a break – according to the latest bunch of Beehive pronouncements. Other announcements by the Beehive Bugle Brigade tell us: People wanting to train for employment– or retrain – will be given a helping hand. But funding “will ...
“The Government’s bill to regulate vaping won’t bring New Zealand any closer to its smokefree ambition, unless MPs now get in behind the many submitters and intervene to drive down the country’s smoking rates,” says Jonathan Devery, spokesperson ...
Covid-19 has not stopped a North Island Iwi from continuing to ready itself for a vote this year, that if ratified will be one of the largest Treaty settlement to date. Whakatōhea is located in the eastern Bay of Plenty region centred around ...
New Zealand ranks first in a new global food security index produced by multinational real estate company Savills. The company has compiled its Food Security Index as part of its latest global Impacts research, which looks at the factors shaping the ...
“A huge opportunity has been missed to make risk-reduced vaping products more accessible to smokers in order to reach the SmokeFree 2025 goal set by government,” says Nancy Loucas, Director of the Aotearoa Vapers Community Advocacy (AVCA). Her ...
Noel Edmonds is a British TV legend with a 50 year career in broadcasting. So why did he move to Matakana and launch a radio station? Like an over-excited Mr Blobby, Tara Ward gave him a call to find out. When Noel Edmonds answers the phone from his home north ...
New statistics released by the New Zealand Police show Māori were disproportionately subject to police proceedings - including court proceedings and receiving warnings - during March and April, Marc Daalder reports As a debate heats up over racial bias in New Zealand policing, new statistics show that Māori were more ...
The Matariki and Puanga stars are due to rise this month, signalling the Māori New Year. Rehua will set in the west at the exact time Puanga rises. So how do we see them and what are the best dates? With thanks to Matua Rereata Mākiha for We often hear about Matariki ...
Here’s The Spinoff’s weekly round-up of data tracking the effects and response of Covid-19 around the world – and how New Zealand stacks up.Our weekly summaries of data and visualisations use Our World in Data’s work on the Covid-19 pandemic, which is freely available for re-use. Not all data is ...
Pacific Media Centre The Vanuatu Council of Ministers has agreed at its meeting held in Luganville, Santo, to postpone the hosting of the Pacific Islands Forum (PIF) Leaders Meeting due in August 2020, reports the Vanuatu Daily Post. The decision followed the recommendations of the National Task Force based on ...
The National Party leader says the Black Lives Matter protests were a mockery of Covid-19 alert levels, but thinks the country should move to alert level 1 now. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Wayne Hope, Professor of Communication Studies, Auckland University of Technology How many media analysts predicted it? In 2018 Australia’s Nine Entertainment absorbed Fairfax Media and its New Zealand subsidiary Stuff. Just under two years later chief executive Sinead Boucher bought Stuff from ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Abby Mellick Lopes, Associate Professor, Design Studies, Faculty of Design, Architecture and Building, University of Technology Sydney Home cooks have been trying out their skills during isolation. But the way food tastes depends on more than your ability to follow a recipe. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jeremy Moss, Professor of Political Philosophy, UNSW Queensland Nationals Senator Matt Canavan on Monday night denied suggestions the government subsidises Australia’s fossil fuel industry. The comments prompted a swift response from some social media users, who cited evidence to the contrary. Canavan ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ralph Sims, Professor, School of Engineering and Advanced Technology, Massey University CC BY-NDClimate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Marshman, Honorary Principal Fellow, Melbourne Centre for the Study of Higher Education, University of Melbourne Most of Australia’s universities have adequate cash and investment reserves to deal with the immediate impact of a downturn in international student revenue in 2020. But ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sameer Hasija, Associate Professor of Technology and Operations Management, INSEAD “This virus may become just another endemic virus in our communities and this virus may never go away.”– WHO executive director Mike Ryan, May 13 Vaccine or not, we have to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Assistant Professor, School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra Later today we’ll know what the bushfires and the coronavirus did to the economy in the three months to March: whether gross domestic product grew (as is usual) or ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Dawson, Professor and Chair of Anthropology, University of Melbourne June, 1980, Laibach was formed. Soon, they became the musical wing of the Slovenian arts collective Neue Slowenische Kunst (NSK), or New Slovenian Art. Comprising visual artists, theatre companies and a unit ...
"George Floyd was not the first, nor will he be the last, to have been denied his human rights as the police officers murdered him. Their names, overseas and in New Zealand are so many, over so many years, and their stories are all so different ...
The National Party is surprised New Zealand immigration officials didn't consult their Australian counterparts before granting a visa to refugee author Behrouz Boochani. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Strotz, Professor, Northwest University, Xi’an The COVID-19 outbreak has put into stark relief the disruption parasites can cause, both in human society and ecosystems. Researchers have long sought to better understand the evolutionary importance of parasites, to help lessen their impact. ...
More than half of a $30 million emergency welfare fund has been spent in just over a month, and many of those in need are foreigners and migrant workers who can't get a home. ...
For all The Spinoff’s latest coverage of Covid-19 see here. Read Siouxsie Wiles’s work here. New Zealand is currently in alert level two – read The Spinoff’s giant explainer about what that means here. For official government advice, see here.The Spinoff’s coverage of the Covid-19 outbreak is made possible thanks to donations from Spinoff Members. ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Significant new support announced for trainees and apprenticeships, more level one detail coming, and long-delayed changes made to ETS.Significant new support has been announced for trainees and apprentices, with thousands of dollars worth of costs being removed for each student. The ...
A Government okay for foreign crews to come here to train is likely shortly, Auckland's Mayor says America's Cup teams' hopes of winning border exemptions to get their crews to Auckland to prepare for next summer's big event should be met soon - with applications under consideration by officials and ...
Can anything stave off 'highly undesirable' cuts to services and projects in Auckland caused by the economic crisis? Will Wellington step in? Tim Murphy reports. For the second time in a year, Auckland Council needs to find half a billion dollars in a hurry to meet its financial commitments. After ...
Sewage fungus, bad smells and insinuations of ignored good faith clauses swirl in a dairy processing wastewater consent application heard in Hamilton last week New Zealand’s second largest dairy processor wants to discharge wastewater into the polluted Waitoa River, including during summer when flows are low. Open Country Dairy’s application for ...
Bubbles, tails, embers, mountains: The PM's deft use of metaphors has helped guide us in the battle to eradicate Covid-19 New Zealand’s success at containing the coronavirus has benefitted from Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s clear communication during her daily media briefings. One aspect of what made this effective was her ...
Medical scientist Anona Pak won't let coronavirus wipe out her chances of playing badminton at the Tokyo Olympics, and an innovative national league will keep her on her toes. Two years ago, Anona Pak was playing badminton purely for the love of the game. The thought of representing New Zealand at ...
Former Woman’s Weekly editor Jenny Lynch on the Bauer-exterminated magazine that may yet rise again. It was born in 1932 at the height of the Depression and laid to rest in 2020 the middle of a global pandemic. In the intervening years the New Zealand Woman’s Weekly became a national ...
The country’s coronavirus restrictions might be coming to an end sooner than you think. Justin Giovannetti looks at what level one rules mean for you.Crowded stadiums and restaurants filled to capacity could be reality in New Zealand as soon as next Wednesday as the government eyes an early move to ...
Waitomo is a town built on tourism. But as overseas visitors, who have been flocking to its spectacular network of glow-worm caves for over a century, dry up, the future looks uncertain.More than 130 years ago, the eruption of Mount Tarawera killed an estimated 153 people and buried Te Otukapuarangi ...
Our Prime Minister is lauded overseas for her compassion, but her Cabinet is refusing to properly support tens of thousands of jobless migrants and beneficiaries struggling through the Covid-19 crisis, Bernard Hickey argues Over the last year since the March 15 attacks, our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has become a paragon of virtue for many ...
There's the law; then there's what's right. Our national carrier has been battered with complaints that it's hanging on to customer cash for flights it grounded. Jon Duffy's first week as head of Consumer New Zealand is a memorable one - the consumer watchdog was swamped with complaints from Air ...
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I wonder what today will bring us?…..
1. More revelations about Labour stealing from the public purse.
2. More diversionary tactics from Labour sycophants here at the Standard.
3. And more impiortantly…the public further reinforce their belief that Labour could not run a shower let alone a government.
Sort your act out guys, this nation needs a strong opposition, we simply cannot afford another term of Labour lite policies from Neville Key and the Nat’s.
Force Neville back to the right, only then can we hope to build a strong economy, one strong enough to withstand another Labour government (in about nine years)
I wonder what today will bring?
More visits from well known RWNJs and new posters that we have never heard of before. More incessant chantings of slogans along the lines of “Labour Bad”. More claims that the taking of data from a crippled server was somehow authorised.
No doubt the debate will be heated and no one’s opinions will be changed.
Of course we could always DNFTT.
Is that all you have Micky?
Normally you can put together a fairly reasoned (all be it wrong) argument, I guess even you have been forced to concede that Labour are as guilty as sin when it comes to stealing public funds.
Tell me mate, why is it that you lot think you have the right to steal my money whenever you fancy?
[Blatant trolling. A repeat will not be tolerated. Final warning…RL]
I can’t speak for “you lot” whoever that is, but I can think of a few good reasons to take what little money you have left.
High on the list: to save prostitutes from having to endure your tedious company.
If someone has been stealing your money you should lay a complaint with the cops bruv.
ha ha….feeling a bit caught out are you RL?
Feeling a bit guilty on behalf of your Labour party sycophants?
Earth calling Planet Bruv….any intellegent life there?????????????? Thought not.
If you ever had any doubts about the Casino nature of the economy as RWNJs want it try this headline from the NY Times this morning..Markets Turn Up Sharply After Release of Retail Data
Apparently the markets gained 1% on news that data was bad BUT not as bad as expected. Go figure. It is the sort of mentality that drives Keys economic vision, pray and hope and talk up what is a very bad story.
Theres been interesting data coming out of everywhere. Seems to be a surge of demand in NZ in the last two months. I’ve definitely noticed it.
Indeed, our primary outputs are going to be highly in demand whilst there is still some liquidity in the world. Commentary from http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/ has repeatedly got the indicators right, they suggest the world economy will have increasingly sharp swings up and down with the average being slow decline. Interesting times.
That would indicate a correction, not an decline forever.
The graphics remind me of this.
http://macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bubblesandmanias.gif
The line indicating value on the graph is OK if you assume unlimited growth and available resources…take the resource availability out consumption comes down, and with it true value.This is what we now face.
I don’t know why bad data, but not as bad as expected, somehow surprised you when the market rallies?
They ‘price in’ what they expect the results of every report will be. Then, if the report comes out as expected, the market barely moves. If it comes out differently, the market will move towards the new position.
Nothing casino-like at all. Simple rational behaviour of markets, really.
Yesterday lprent said to me:
If the level of mudslinging, vitriol, hate and intolerance we have in our politics is seen as an essential part of a “healthy democracy” it’s no wonder our society has more than a few rough edges.
It’s in part the example set by the Dogs of Blogs, Bitches of Parties.
And part of the family of violence. (from Liberation”
PeteG, we might want to consider that vitriol and extreme positions go hand in hand with a society under increasing stress. The party that was the last 30 years is over, the “economy”if you can call it that now faces the long slow decline that will parallel resouce depletion (energy in particular). There are no magic bullets, no immediate cure, or way back ever. Its gone. Bleak indeed.
The cosy assumptions of the middle classes are crumbling before their eyes, no financial institution is to be trusted, no long term future based on what we are used to can be trusted. Those who own most are grasping to own more, those with least are getting less. So we will fight one another for the diminishing remains of what is left. Dont expect it to be “nice”, it is too visceral for that.
I think we have to fight against going down that path.
I agree, but I fear we might already be into the second round throwing punches wildly.
You forgot to put in the reason why I said that. As I recall I described it quite vividly.
Just think, there is very little conflict in the democracy in Fiji right now. Is that what you’re after?
Well he has indicated a desire that all parties get behind the government.
I guess it might sound a bit strange to some to expect that all our elected reprentatives should actually represent us and work together for the good of the country rather than ignore the people that voted for them, barricade themselves in party factions and try and bring each other down by any means they can think of, more foul than fair.
Doesn’t it seem strange that we seem to accept a “democracy” where the main opposition party doesn’t accept the democrat vote of the election and instead devotes itself to trying to bring the government down?
That sounds like actively encouraged desperate for power sedition to me, not democracy.
Ya big galloon, the people that voted for the opposition deserve representation in parliament too.
Opposition to The Party is sedition now, Pete?
Continually trying to bring a government down is, isn’t it?
You know very well I don’t support single party rule. That’s just another of your attempts at devious and blatant misrepresentation.
I support multiple healthy parties who can work together for the good of the country (which they do at select committee level now anyway) but can still have differences and debates on issues.
Have differences and debates and then get behind the government.
You’re getting clearer.
“You know very well I don’t support single party rule. “
Actually I don’t, Pete. I know you say that, but every time we drill down through your ideas about representation we run into this brick wall that you just don’t seem to be able to see over.
Here’s an example: http://thestandard.org.nz/drug-peddlers/#comment-330885
Perhaps you’re ready to answer the question at the “end” of that interchange now, and we can find out once and for all what it is you believe.
Who’s this “we” you are referring to? Who are you working with?
You don’t give me the impression you want to understand what I think.
You give me the impression you want to eliminate posts you don’t want here. Under favourable protection you try to exclude who you don’t want on the blog.
By “we” I just mean myself and the other commenters who have tried at length to get you to examine your ideas a little more closely. I’m only speaking for myself, but acknowledging that I’m not the only one who has put these questions to you.
Would you like to change the subject again or are you going to try to answer the question now?
Awww, where’d you go Pete? (again)
Seems it’s always at this exact point in our conversations (the point where I ask you the question you can’t face) that you disappear for the day.
I’m beginning to have serious doubts about your level of commitment to an inclusive, open, consultative model of governance, Pete.
I have other things to do sometimes felix, I’m not perpetually in thrall of your quaint manoeverings.
Politicians should be prepared to justify their actions to all voters.
I notice in that exchange that I made it clear (again) that I don’t support a one party state. Most of you “assumptions” there were incorrect, but that’s what you seem to like doing.
I support a multi party state where the parties don’t always try and destroy each other.
A question for you – do you accept that I don’t support a one party state?
Pete, I won’t know until you answer the question at the bottom of that thread.
Just think, there is very little conflict in the democracy in Fiji right now.
What democracy?
Hey Pete, how come you keep comin round here tryin to start fights and bein all ornery about things?
Usin words like ‘dogs’ and ‘bitches’ and stuff.
Robust democratic debate 🙂
And because if I said things like “please can our politicians and their heavies behave a bit more civilly and set a better example” it tends to get ignored.
Parties need jolting out of their self obsession with power at any price. Blogs aid and abet their charade of democracy, aka desparate clinging to power by any means.
Yeah everyone should just shut up and let you* make all the decisions then, for the good of democracy.
*Yes yes, I know I heard you the last time. You have a new and improved method of politics where people you listen to will talk to you and you’ll do what they tell you. Sounds like something I’d hate, sorry.
So what to do?
Don’t you know? PeteG is the one destined to bring balance back to the Force.
Pete I have no great love or respect for our parliamentarians, however, in their defense our parliamentary system is set up and designed to be oppositional in nature so as to ensure a positive and negative position on all issues are vigorously debated while this can lead to the childish and hateful behaviour we often seen in parliament it is a reasonable price to pay for having a democracy.
Oppositional is fine, we need that. But I think our parties go much further than “oppositional”.
We can have opposition and denbate without having to resort to the levels of mudslinging, blatant dishonesty and illegality (or stretching the rules to suit) that we get far too much of.
Don’t you see the difference?
Oh I agree with all that, I was pretty much backing up lprent’s view that if we suddenly had an outbreak of agreement on everything from the politicians we should all be very worried indeed.
No, we need to encourage diverse views.
All I’m suggesting is we shouldn’t have to accept so much arsehole behaviour and nasty tactics.
It’s no better than accepting kicking someone’s head in after the bar has closed because that’s what you do when you’re tanked up.
…arsehole behaviour and nasty tactics.
I consider that those would be where people are getting killed, tortured, jailed, disappeared or having the shit beaten out of them. When you look outside democracies that is what you see. When you look at sham ‘democracies’ like Fiji, that is what you see. In fact that appears to be the norm for the political process over the centuries.
The penalty cost for having a vaguely democratic system like ours is that you allow minorities and dissidents room to have a voice without getting killed (etc) is that the process is noisy. The noisiness appears to be what you’re objecting to.
I suspect you have lived a sheltered existence and could do to get out more amongst different cultures to see how they handle their political systems. You don’t even have to leave the country. I’d suggest that you do what I did at age 18 and go in the army. The culture was quite different to what I was used to, and soldiers there had a far far clearer appreciation of a free society looked like than you do.
PeteG – Denbate – is that some sort of rodent extermination material?
Time to change from our Westminster system of parliament you say?
No. We just have to use the system we’ve got better.
And not allow our politicians to abuse it so much.
Its the Westminster system. Oppositional and adversarial is what it was founded on.
But feel free to try and change the trimmings around the edges.
Why can’t Radio NZ leave the Darren Hughes affair alone? This morning they were trying (again) to make Phil Goff look bad over it. Are CT worried that Phil is increasingly like a better alternative than the donkey, et al. Move along.
[Deleted. Despicable smear-mongering. A repeat will earn a long ban…RL]
How is it smear mongering? He was under the influence of something, I didn’t say it was Darren that had anything to do with it. I’m merely pointing out the reason why charges were not laid. This was reported by the way.
[lprent: Whatever it was, I’d guess that you just failed to put in the link. Silly you. But I suspect that you made up your own story and didn’t put in a link to something reputable because it didn’t support you interpretation – right?.
Don’t be daft. If you want to make a statement of fact or insinuation of fact, then you need to support it. Otherwise we’ll treat it as trolling. ]
What is CT short for and how exactly is he, she, or it meant to be able to influence Radio NZ National editorial policy?
Crosby Textor – a hybrid organism that infects the brain stem of weak minded egoists who believe that some people are simply better than others because they own more shit.
CT? Try Crosby Textor the hoodwink experts John Key and the rest of his nasty little crowd get their daily spin lines from. Read the Hollow Men.
Okay then, so how is an Australian PR agency meant to influence the editorial decisions of Radio NZ National?
really, you are going with feigning ignorance?
…and you seem to be going with the ‘I don’t need to actually provide any evidence or even justify my position because I just know it is so’ approach.
One typical CT tactic is to provide news organisations with easy access to selective “facts”, specific framing/languaging and acceptable people to interview.
And with news organisations having to do more on less and less, its a quick easy way for them to get some content out there without working too hard.
I just heardv on 3 News Fatty Garner putting his view on the Darren Hughes event as if it were fact… pretty much as he usually does, in fact… 🙁
mickeysavage, is it true that you sent a whiny missive to Peter Goodfellow of National complaining about Cameron Slater and worrying about whether he had your credit card details?
Wouldn’t that be like someone on the right complaining to the Labour party about the antics of someone from The Standard? I’m sure you would agree that the Standard boys and girls cannot be dictated to by Labour Party head office yet you seem to think Cameron Slater can. Truly Bizarre.
Anyway I thought the Labour party has already stated that the credit card information was on another properly protected server and nothing was compromised? Don’t you trust the Labour party hierarchy on this?
People have done that a couple of times to us as well.
However, the National party’s IP’s are all over the access logs long before Slater touched it. It would appear that the National party could have a copies of some Labour party data, and it looks highly likely that someone in the National Party tipped off their poodle. So yes you may know what you told your poodle to collect.
But I suggest you look at the Privacy Act. It has some interesting provisions for organisations having to disclose any information that they hold on individuals.
So is Cameron working for ACT or National ……….. or is he actually responsible for 9/11?
Perhaps he’s just a political junkie who revels in poking opposing political junkies, politicians and political parties with a stick ……… seems to be good therapy for him.
None of those are necessarily mutually exclusive of course (just sayin is all…)
I suspect reverse vampire involvement.
Reverse vampire involvement, yes, but behind it all I suspect a cabal of born to rule werewolves.
“Congress tart !”
Where can I find one of those? 😉
Now that was silly wasn’t it, HS? But you’re not alone. 48% of all New Yorkers are wondering the same thing.
Jeez Travellerev you can’t stop yourself can you? lol!
Cowboy hat boy. Shush. you are so silly.
I bet if the question was: “Would you support a new $400m investigation into WTC7 collapse?” the answer would have been a lot more negative.
In other words, if you give stuff away for free, even if it’s stuff people don’t really care about, they’ll gladly accept it. If you charge them for it, you’ll get a low fewer takers.
ROFL, Fuck, rare earth man talk about a warped argument.
I’ll tell you what; if the choice is let’s get to the bottom of why a perfectly well build 47 story steel framed high rise collapsed after only minor office fires into its own footprint in 6.5 seconds breaking all Newtons laws of motion for a mere $400 million before we bankrupt ourselves attacking Afghanistan and Iraq considering the fact that they spend $ 40 million on the Lewinski/Clinton case (to find out whether he lied under oath about screwing the girl) I’m sure NYers would choose the investigation into the collapse of building 7 no problem.
Here is the collapse for those of you who didn’t know about the third building collapsing.
Even NIST had no explanation as to why this happened and let’s face it it never happened before or after 911.
More than 1500 Architects and Engineers want to know why it happened too. If only to be able to prevent it from happening another time.
“More than 1500 Architects and Engineers…”
To borrow your own text speak emotion
ROFL!
This would be round about the same number of supposed “Architects and Engineers”, (including a high number of students it must be stated), that has been claimed by that same website for the past few years.
If you must use the appeal to authority and numbers logical fallacy to bolster your argument it would be better if you could actually show that the numbers supporting these wacky ideas are actually growing significantly over time rather than stagnating.
no Cowboy hat boy,
the figures are:
1,513 verified architectural and engineering professionals and 12,284 other supporters
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.
If that many building professionals want to know why a perfectly well build steel framed twice reinforced to withstand nuclear blasts collapses after a couple of hours of minor carbon fires within 6.5 seconds into its own footprint breaking all the laws of motion I’m happy to second that request. That is not using authority to press a point that is pointing out that since I’m not a building professional but they are I’m inclined to support that demand. Especially since even NIST after eight years can not explain the collapse.
LOL.
I note you failed to answer the actual question that I raised, which was shouldn’t the numbers supporting this investigation be growing substationally rather than stagnating as seems to be the case?
Eve, about the ‘small office fire in WTC7’ that you like to mention, here’s video you could link to in support of that:
and an interview with Deputy Fire Chief Peter Hayden, from early 02:
Looks to me like a substantial fire that was left to burn for several hours because the firefighters were concerned about the integrity of the building. But opinions vary obviously.
Hi PB,
Here is a fire in a steel framed building in Madrid. It was much hotter, the building much more fragile and it burned mush longer but the building was still there.
Here is a steel framed building in China which again burned far hotter ,longer and was build in a strange lopsided manner but it di not collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture and no steel framed building other than the three WTC buildings have ever collapsed due to fires, let alone into their own foot prints in 6.5, 10 and 11 seconds. And the reaon for its collapse was because according to them one beam of the structure heated up and expanded a tiny bit more than the others causing the structure to collapse like a controlled ($ millions of dollars to pull off correctly) demolition. Come on PB, Come on.
Let me ask you something? Try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds or a 180 in 10-11 seconds. That is the time it took for those buildings to “collapse”. If you can do that I concede that those buildings failed structurally into their own footprint towards the path of most resistance.
Still not small office fire. It was bloody big office fire left to burn for several hours because the fire crews thought the building was going to collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture
Wikipedia mis-reports the NIST interim report then:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
I know, I know, wikipedia. But still. The NIST report says something. It either says what wikipedia claims it says, or what you claim it says. Shall I check?
The madrid building wasn’t more fragile, it had a reinforced concrete central core, which survived, the steel shell around it collapsed though, about 2-3 hours in to the fire.
PB,
I take it you did not try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds then.
Buildings do not collapse due to fire in freefall speed into their own foot print because of gravity.
The fire was comparatively cold and the explanation from NIST has been peer reviewed and found wanting.
Here is a link to the NY times archives explaining the reinforcement of the building in 1989.
It was reinforced again to house the emergency bunker of Giuliani. It was supposed to be able to withstand a nuclear impact.
Here is a video which shows the explosion initiation bringing down the building in the afternoon. NIST denies explosions occurred.
Here is a video of an interview with Barry Jennings. Barry Jennings was the Deputy Director of Emergency Services Department for the New York City Housing Authority. He died under mysterious circumstances just before the NIST report was released. He describes explosions in the building when none of the two towers had collapsed yet and He describes how the first 6 floors just disappeared leaving the outer walls standing.
All of which is fascinating eve.
however, all I’m pointing out is that you keep saying it was a small fire, when video shows that it wasn’t, and that there was structural damage when you claim there was none, and that the NIST report doesn’t say what you claimed it says.
Given this, I’m not really inclined to trust things you have to say. That’s not my fault, it’s your fault. You say things that when checked turn out to not be true, or at the very least , wildy misleading.
It really really really will help you to convince people if you sort that problem out.
Is what I said PC. Compared to the Spanish and Chinese fire they were minor.
If you choose to ignore evidence of explosions (You’re not alone, NIST refused to address this), the fact that the building reinforced to withstand a nuclear blast did collapse in free fall speed 6.5 seconds into its own foot print against all laws of motion and physics and unseen before and after 911 than that is your prerogative, mate.
Thanks a bunch for keeping the thread alive because unlike you there are always people who do want to know and they get to learn about it this way.
For those of you wanting to meet other people who want to know the truth here is the forum you might want to visit and become a member from and here is once again the link to Architects and engineers for 911 truth. Here is the site for the fire fighters for 911 truth and here is a list of prominent patriots who want a new and independent investigation.
“So yes you may know what you told your poodle to collect.”
WTF???
I’m not even a member of the National Party so why would you try and suggest I had something to do with this.
I think you are guilty of the very same problem you have when people equate members of The Standard with Labour.
My apologies. That sort of deliberately slipped out. For some reason it felt right…..
(it must have been all of the synchronized yapping I have been seeing for the last couple of days)
Why does political discourse have to be so violent Gosman?
And by the looks of your comment you will be aware that I have written expressing my concern that my private information may be held by the National Party and by Slater. Cameron has responded in his usual manner.
I am actually wondering about the benefit of debating some issues online. I don’t care about abuse myself, but I know a number of others who feel very threatened by the overly intrusive and abusive behaviour of some.
Are you suggesting my comments to you constitutes abuse?
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow about the credit card information that Cameron Slater might or might not have and the reason why you sent the e-mail to him when your issue seems to be with Cameron Slater and the Labour party has already stated that credit card information was not accessed.
Yes I did say your e-mail was whiny but that is my personal opinion of it when reading it. That is hardly constitutes abuse on any major level in my book but if you were horribly offended I must apologise profusely to you.
Sorry Gosman. I agree your comment was mild in comparison to many.
I was referring more to the stream of texts and emails I am currently receiving.
I am pretty thick skinned about it but I just had breakfast with a few others who have been considerably affected by the application of the internet blowtorch on them.
There has to be a better way.
Sorry to hear that MS. Misuse of telecommunications including email is a crime.
Yes, it is. A very serious crime.
I actually sympathise with you on this. I inwardly cringed when I saw you included your contact details on the e-mail as I could imagine certain people would most likely use that information in rather nasty ways. I might disagree with your political view point but there really is no excuse for that sort of stuff.
Do you get what I mean then MS?
I’m told (elsewhere on this thread) that a climate of political attack and abuse is essential for democracy to function, and to keep lprent in the country.
But (I presume) MS is not being abused by politicians or representatives of political parties. So how does your “new way of doing things” have anything to do with the current issues MS is having?
I was talking about my opinons I posted on and discussed here, about the example of political behaviour set by our so called leaders – that any tactics are fair game as long as you can get away with it. Behaviour that flows out, including to politically minded people who seem to think anything and anyone is fair game in the brawl for power.
I think it’s incredibly sad to see the amount of resources that go into trying to abuse and destroy in political circles. It goes far beyond democratic debate, it’s an excuse to be a power seeking arsehole.
I figured that would be your answer. But don’t you think they you are seriously exaggerating the potential benefits of your so-called ‘new way of doing things’? Obviously, behaviour of political minded people is influenced to some degree by our political leaders. But people aren’t suddenly going to start behaving like angels just because there is less dirt being thrown around at the top.
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow
Is that the same guy that the movie Goodfellas was named after? 😉
How do you threaten someone without threatening someone?
“Hey Mickey, look, you’ve been causing trouble here and you know it. Why would you do that when you know your mum has just had a heart attack and is recovering down at St Vincent’s? And your wife, she’s got that new job at the store down the road hasn’t she? I heard that she likes it there. Now your little Matty he’s at such a sensitive age looking to start school next month. So Mickey, if I were you, I’d just focus on making sure that your family stays healthy and happy, and not worrying about all this other political stuff.
Geddit?”
So you wrote to the National Party and now Slater knows about it?
How does that work?
Wrote to both to put them on notice and to ask for information they held concerning me. Slater responded rather briefly saying “F@#$ off”. His eloquence is mythical. I am thinking of seeking clarification of his position but it is a bit like poking a bear with a stick …
Right.
I suspect that Slater only understands or appreciates certain kinds of messages MS. A polite email is not one of them.
ms – Sounds like a new alien language? Perhaps he has out of planet connections which could explain Whale Oil’s peculiarities.
Nah, don’t bother. Throw it to the Privacy Commissioner.
Wondering about that too. How does Gosman know? Has MS’s letter been published. Good on him by the way.
The Righty Socialist Network. Seriously – they play and co-ordinate as a corporate team.
Yep, possibly the biggest bunch of collectivists around. It’s a pity that the left doesn’t play together so nicely.
Slater has published the letter in it’s entirety on his blog.
So Cameron sees fit to publish the contact details of people who email him.
Cool people you work with, National.
Who works with?
No-one Gos, it’s just some wacky zany conspiracy.
Nobody in their right mind would imagine for a moment that Slater has anything to do with the National Party.
What a preposterous idea.
Finally some sense from you Felix on this whole Cameron Slater is a willing tool of the National Party conspiracy theory ;).
So you wrote to the National Party and now Slater knows about it?
Poodle post ?
Bizarre -with one hand typing damning accusations of dirty tricks from the opposing party, and with the other hand dissing me for suggesting our opposition model of democracy is a tad bent.
So it hasn’t crossed your mind that people aren’t actually dissing you for saying that you aren’t happy with the present model, but are actually calling bullshit on your alternative proposal?
Interesting, Pete. That level of narcissism could take you a long way in your new career.
Pete, why must you resort to these filthy insinuations? Kumbaya mate! Remember?
Let us talk closely know and reason together a way out of this mess, a mess caused by your sad and pathetic wallowing in the politics of personal denigration. First admit that your idea is fail, and then agree with us to move forward, together.
Gerry the Butt is on air saying that he can’t say anything definite. It’s blindingly obvious he says that some people will have to shift. But he doesn’t want to state definite areas, ‘It is a big decision for people, it’s a lifetime investment, but the ducks have to be all lined up. Even after an announcement there will be a considerable time before people can move”.
Every comment he makes shows that he understands the position and then refuses to answer the questions, to make decisions because he has to make decisions that are ‘very, very robust’. Everyone wanting simplistic approaches are being unreasonable. So much for all his powers. I imagine that the decision to appoint him went like this – Gerry is such a mouthy livewire. His family know about timber. He knows about practical working with timber. He is a teacher, (who often think they know everything) and is not a shy communicator. He won’t be happy with his other positions. This will give him something to get his teeth into, which are false, and get him out of our hair here at NACT headquarters where he is a bit of a nit.
Last “It’s about fairness to the property owners”. By that he means, not making precipitate announcements, before all the possibilities have been gravely considered, chewed over like a cow’s cud, and finally excreted to the population. By all means they can’t be consulted with, have location meetings with management and engineers as they wish, who would explain the difficulties and possible and likely solutions and what the hold-ups are caused by. This is the authoritarian way.
Excerpt from the song Show Me from My Fair Lady – sing along!
Words! Words! Words! I’m so sick of words!
I get words all day through;
First from him, now from you!
Is that all you blighters can do?
Has anyone thought of a protest occupation at his place? You know, everyone bring one bucketful of liquefaction from their property to dump on his lawn, just to make a point.
cv That would be a newsworthy action. It seems we can otherwise only act like an army of primed mosquitoes buzzing and biting till he reacts. If we can inject some ideas viruses and set up an itch we might get action and move this organic pile for the benefit of all of Christchurch.
Next idea is that the east side parts to be abandoned for housing should be bought by Landcorp from CERA or other body and then turned into dairy farms. These would use best practice and be models showing good environmental practices using present understanding of using effluent safely. I understand that if treated properly the gases produced can be utilised for energy. Landcorp would hold environmental field days similar to Hamilton and attract farmers and the general public for demonstrations. Landcorp would also develop, assisted by locals, corridors of vegetation for birds etc. Some of the people who had had to abandon their previous houses would have the option of living in hamlets of suitable, practical, low-cost houses on suitable higher ground with a passing grade from engineers. These would be served by buses morning, lunchtime and evening so that they wouldn’t be isolated from the city and wouldn’t need a car to get to work.
Have a listen to Minister Gerry Brownlee in all his glory, all embracing competence, omnipotence, and beneficence:
[audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20110615-0930-minister_for_earthquake_recovery-048.mp3" /]
That should get more publicity. Knock me over, Gerry. Take my breath away. Quake me. And it’s all so blindingly obvious.
The interview before that with Barry Tutt and Lianne Dalziel is at:
[audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20110615-0909-chch_residents_in_limbo_awaiting_geotech_report-048.mp3" /]
These were on ‘9 to Noon’, Radio NZ, today.
I’ve never understood how in a country so full of cow shit, mushrooms can cost $12/kg! Using modern mycological methods we could drink the run off from dairy, but not while we assign more value to ipods than we do to chickens. They are just gaming it to see which way their corporations can make the most money from it and once they’ve been told what they are going to do,I’m sure they will let us all in on it. I thinking your all expecting a little too much from someone who obviously has someone else hand up his am I allowed to say that? I better go read more policy 🙂
Tough peeps of the day, (no really edition):
Ali al-Ekri
Rula al-Saffar
Zahra al-Sammak
Ayat al-Qurmezi
http://www.smh.com.au/world/medicos-tortured-bahrain-trial-told-20110614-1g1vn.html
whilst the poodles were licking their wounds, and the journos were playing three card Monty with the truth, it seems the Education Minister has been busy planning the destruction of one of the few programmes that has consistently helped thousands of POOR children recieve much needed assistance for over fifty years
Tolley wants to close the Health Camps and is not saying what will replace them
This is a very serious attack on one of our country’s most internationally applauded Child-assistance policies. Does anyone have any detail?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/5140699/Letter-an-insult-to-board
I do know that Health Camps became a sort of mis-nomer years ago. Used to be just for kids who were sick.
But now it is a respite for desperate kids suffering from abuse and learning difficulties and general needs. Kids are there for a limited time and get regular meals, regular recreation, and regular schooling. Suppose the problem is in what happens to those kids after the Camp.
No, my friend was raped by one of the ‘leaders’ at the health camp. I look back at those six weeks as a time that I learnd to harden my heart and really start to hate the world. If there ever was a FAIL in the states attempts to fix my broken family, then this camp was definitely one of them. I do not know of a single other kid who liked or benefited in their time there, far too much like a “getting you ready for prison” and “boot camp” to be anything other than a tool instilling repression in our youth. Good Riddance!
George Carlin on who owns us. It just never get’s old.
Is that old or told? Pretty depressing stuff. And here in NZ? Maybe it is time for lobby groups to be made transparent before it is too late.
Stop the motor of NZ?
Is that the same 1960’s motor we are using powered by milk, cheese and wool?
No, that would be the 1860s one that we still haven’t replaced.
‘Lack of certainty is killing the spirit and economy of Christchurch’
OK. Here is some certainties:
1. Global extraction of conventioanl oil has peaked, so current economic arrangements will disintegrate over the next decade. The globalised, industrialised food system will collapse..
2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered, substantial sea level rise that will cover much of Canterbury is more or less inevitable over coming decades. i.e. Christchurch doesn’t have a long term future.
3. Politicians serve their own interests, and the interests of bankiers and corporations. Any ‘solutions’ they come up with will therefore primarily be for the benefit politicians, bankers and corporations. Since peak oil and abrupt climate change are taboo topics for them, their ‘solutions’ will be completely disconnected from reality.
4. Most people are ignorant of the facts and don’t believe the truth when it is provided.
5 The most important item on the agenda of politicians and the media at this stage in the game is to keep ‘the proles’ misinformed and believing in the system – a bit like Fukishima: ‘everything is under control’.
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come. (Of course, those who run early get the best spots.)
[lprent: This sidetracked way to far from the post. Next time I see you do this, you will get a *long* ban. moving whole thread to OpenMike. ]
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come.
In the kind of apocolyptic scenario you are thinking of those who are isolated in the ‘hills’ will be the first to be picked off. It will be those who have strong communities around them who will survive.
You should look at the post-Soviet experience in Russia during the 1990’s to get a better model of what is more likely to happen.
Yeah and Fukushima is a worry. The cover up is worse than Chernobyl.
“2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered,”
Which positive feedbacks have been triggered? Last news I heard was that were potentially heading into a Maunder Minimum, giving us several decades of cold weather.
“Last news I heard was that were potentially heading into a Maunder Minimum, giving us several decades of cold weather.”
You must have been under a rock for a while, then.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/14/ice_age/
A little off-topic, I admit. But it might answer the question above
Could be interesting, bit early to bank on it though and this line at the end made me laugh:
The threat of climate change hasn’t resulted in the governments making any radical shifts in policy yet.
Yep, Chch is fucked with higher sea level rises than previously anticipated.
Chch is going to be a salt water swamp by the end of the century.
How can the earth be at “peak oil” when we’re yet to reach peak exploration? Get a grip! I heard this sort of doomsday meanderings back in the 1970s. Why don’t you google “fracking” then re-phrase what you loosely call “known facts?” Idiot!
Micky wrote to Goodfellow and ccd Slater on the email. It was a strange, rambling email that accused all sorts of high crimes on behalf of National for which Micky has no evidence while purportedly defending Labour’s unlawful and non-existent lack of security on its data.
Micky then told Slater he was free to publish the email but only in its entirety. Is it any wonder that Slater did so, and included the contact details that Micky left which were on the email, following Micky’s request to publish in entirety?
Micky if you are Labour’s legal counsel then Labour really is up shit creek. Cam Slater’s blog isn’t even subject to the Privacy Act, so good luck trying to shift that shit up a hill.
Strange? Rambling?
“Dear Peter
There has been some recent publicity concerning the National Party’s downloading of information from a Labour Party server which regrettably was not as secure as it might be.
From today’s National Business Review I note that you have confirmed that a National Party staff member “accessed” the data. By this I anticipate that you mean “downloaded”. The data has also regrettably found its way into the hands of Mr Cameron Slater.
I am pretty sure that some of the data was mine. I donated to the Labour Party to purchase some “Stop Asset Sales” signs as I considered this a worthy cause to support. The idea of selling an interest in our power companies to essentially overseas interests is frankly insane. I paid for the signs by credit card and I am concerned that the National Party now has my credit card’s details.
You can imagine the worry that this has caused me. It is bad enough that your party has my credit card details but there is the strong possibility that your organisation has also facilitated Cameron Slater aka Whaleoil to obtain the same information. I cannot imagine what he will do with this information.
So I seek the following from you:
1. Advice on what data your organisation holds concerning me.
2. Your organisation’s undertaking that it will not disclose any information that it holds concerning me to any third party.
3. Details of information already supplied to Mr Slater concerning the security problems that the Labour Party server had.
4. Details of information supplied to any third party which may include data that relates to me.
Please note that if I suffer any monetary loss because of the actions of your organisation then I reserve the right to seek damages.
I am sending a copy of this email to Mr Slater so that he is also placed on notice. I also seek the same information from him. If he does anything that causes me loss then I reserve the right to seek redress from him personally.
I note that Mr Slater has chosen to print previous emails from Chris Flatt. He is at liberty to print this email but only in full.
Finally please note that I require a response within the next seven days. “
Don’t you think you made a bit of a major assumption there that the National party organisation supplied Cameron Slater with this information.
I’m not sure if people in the organisation had publically come out and denied they had when you wrote off to them but if they had what were you expecting them to say about this? Were you hoping you would catch them out with them stating ‘Well we didn’t give him any of your credit card details so you dont have to w…. D’oh!’?
Also is this a formal legal request for your information back and if so did you formally direct a request to Cameron Slater as well? If not, why haven’t you made a formal legal request, you are after all a lawyer?
Also is this a formal legal request for your information back and if so did you formally direct a request to Cameron Slater as well?
There is no prescribed form. All that you have to do is ask in writing for the information.
Have you cancelled your credit card and informed the issuer of the same of the potential lack of security in relation to the card/s in question ?
If not I’d suggest you should do so forthwith.
Micky you have no evidence that the Naitonal Party supplied anything to Slater. In fact you have denials from both the President and Slater himself that any such supply took place. The only pseudo-evidence you have is unsubstantiated allegations made by anonymous bloggers and commenters here at the Standard. Unless you’re preparing to have them appear as witnesses in Court to substantiate their claims which I don’t imagine would please them, then you are pushing shit up hill. I realise you are emotionally fraught at the moment but you would be better off blaming the Labour Party for publishing your personal details on the internet rather than trying to be a nuisance to the National Party who will just laugh your silly attention-seeking correspondence away.
Read Pagani’s blog for a human readable version. The logs are pretty clear if you (like we do) have a record of IP’s that access our site and you look at the back trace.
Quite frankly I think that Goodfellow doesn’t know what people in his organization do. After all someone there has been feeding dirt on him to Whale for some time. You perhaps…
Cameron Slater is a serial liar and completely untrustworthy. If he states something is a fact, then the highest probability is that is largely a fabrication. That is quite easy for me to prove, I’d just point to the various lies he has made about me and the organizations I worked for over the years.
If someone wants to sue on that basis, then go right ahead.
Could be me, but I doubt it Lyn since I’m not actually part of the National Party organisation. But I tell you what, if you go and put a disclaimer about all the party associations that your bloggers have you will have a right to make snide remarks about right wing commenters here. But you might want to read your About policy first.
It is in the about.
You have interesting IP’s and I have seen them before, which tends to make me suspicious. They are covered by the privacy provisions policy but I do scan them when I start putting people into moderation.
BTW: Since we’re talking about accuracy. My name is Lynn, and my partners name is Lyn. I keep thinking that you’re talking to someone else. Use lprent or Lynn please.
There is no disclaimer there of all the party associations of your bloggers Lyn and I wouldn’t expect them to be such, so if you want to go around insinuating party associations of commenters here that’s your choice because it’s your blog, but don’t expect me to think it’s an intellectually consistent approach to take.
What’s your point, PC?
You want readers to think you’re a disinterested neutral objective observer?
Yes there is. They are of the labour movement. A couple of us are Labour party members. Some are union members. Some have no known memberships but will state who they will vote for. Some bemoan that there is no party they will vote for.
At last count there are 30 odd people who have author rights here. Some haven’t used them for some time but did so extensively in the past. Others have only written a couple of posts. If you want to know what there affiliations are – then stop being so damn lazy and read their posts.
Oh and http://thestandard.org.nz/author/admin
You know I didn’t ask for their associations so stop putting up bloody straw men and then getting all pissy on it when I don’t bite. I said you do not publish the party associations of your bloggers. Saying they are of the “labour movement” is not a disclaimer. Write what you like, it’s your blog. You’ve accused me of being a National Party insider who might pass things onto Whale and I’ve said your wrong. Keep that in mind next time you ban somebody for saying one of your bloggers is a Labour Party apparatchik. In the meantime that is not the topic of this discussion and you know it.
I would say that is a pretty clear disclaimer. It covers everyone who authors here because apart from the small number of original authors, it has been there since just after the site started.
You’re not one of those silly buggers that thinks a site like this can be run out of a political organization are you? Bear in mind that the two Bills, the spout and some of the others are usually pretty trenchant critics of the Labour party. Also I don’t think much of the Greens or anyone left of the right of the Labour Party. That this site could be run by a political party that was always a bit of a jerk-off fantasy by the right bloggers losing readers.
Ah, here we go. The little abrasiveness remarks, ignoring requests for the right name use and the accusations of not being intellectually consistent. Yep.
Don’t let him get to you Iprent. He isn’t worth it.
Thought he seemed familiar.
Gngngngn.
yeah mate you are pristine like Switzerland 😀
what jokes you got in your next act?
Have you heard the one about faceless men, the banker, and Merrill Lynch ?
… Umm, you probably have – by now.
You seem to be making the mistake of assuming that because you have evidence of Cameron Slater lying in the past that must mean everything he states subsequently must also be a lie AND that the opposite position from what he has stated about something must be the truth. That is hardly a persuassive argument.
Let me put this another way.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact. I think that he doesn’t truly distinguish between them. I’ve even looked at a couple of his posts on weapons, checked the specs and found that his assertions of fact have no basis in reality.
He is a entertaining storyteller for the credulous right, but you can’t rely on what he says because he routinely embellishes facts so they are unrecognizable.
Some of that happens in some authors posts here as well. But generally they clearly distinguish between what is fact and what is their opinion. Apart from anything else we have a far more active comments section with a much wider range of people who comment. Someone from some viewpoint will tear loose statements of fact apart as embarrassingly as possible. Authors learn that pretty fast.
And yes, you’re correct. I assume that anything that Whale says is wrong until proven otherwise. Why? Because my (and probably most peoples) experience of reading his stuff is that the more breathless his claims are, the more likely it is that he fabricated most of it.
I don’t rely on what Cameron Slater states however that doesn’t mean that the opposite must in fact be true. You should still weigh up the balance of probabilities and evidence.
Probabilities and evidence? yes, that would be the way to go about it.
That would be good – I haven’t seen you ever do that though.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact.
That can also apply to many of the posts here, laughably (or sadly) appearing as extreme propaganda. Just look at the headlines. Those that want them to be true will buy them, but they are hardly going to convince anyone else of a political alternative with any competence.
I know this isn’t a Labour blog – I agree, a party couldn’t do something like this – but a notable proportion of the posts here do nothing to help make Labour look like it has anywhere near recovered from 2008.
Whether the extreme posting comes from Labour or not the perceived link is there and it’s easy to think you wouldn’t want that lot anywhere near the liquor cabinet let alone cabinet in parliament.
The quality of writing you should be concerned about as a budding young politician with 15 years of private sector R&D experience is not at The Standard, it is within the MSM.
I agree – but how can one address that?
Where is this denial from the president?
As I recall from his statement he specifically avoided making that particular denial. Gotta link?
Try this Felix. It’s been linked to here several times already: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/national-admits-labour-data-breach-denies-passing-names-whaleoil-ck-95242
National’s president, Peter Goodfellow, confirmed a head office staffer accessed the data but denied it was passed on.
Or maybe you missed this:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10732187
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.
He said today National had written to Labour to say it had not passed on any information and did not intend to.”
That says that the data was not passed on.
It does not say that they didn’t instruct Whale about how to get access to it himself. Which is what is being suggested by felix
BTW: Looks like that took Whale some time to get right. The logs show him as being somewhat tentative. Whoever was doing it at the National part was better technically.
You’re the accuser here lyn, you have to prove your case with evidence. You have made assumptions based on plausibility, not inspected evidence and weighed up probabilities. They aren’t the same thing.
Goodfellow also didn’t deny that he was the shooter on the grassy knoll. Are you going to call the FBI to insist they make an arrest?
So far I haven’t even seen any evidence that Slater has done, or will do, anything illegal with the data. If you or somebody else could enlighten me on that I would be very grateful.
Portion Control telling lprent what he has or hasn’t done.
Thankfully we’re not writing here to satisfy you are we mate?
So he did, my mistake.
But what Lynn says is very interesting and a far more likely way for an organisation wanting to keep the dogs at arm’s length to operate.
What Lynn says (I apologise I’ve been calling him Lyn accidentally) on this is diversion and not backed up by evidence. If you want examples of third party attacks then you only have to look at the attacks that Pagani and Micky did on Simon Lusk and Whale a few weeks back before Trevor got in on the act. And if you are talking about third party attacks on political opponents by proxy then it would be very rich for that allegation to be coming from bloggers here at the Standard.
As for the plausibility of Lynn’s claim of an association between Whale and the National Party, are you fucking serious? Whale fucking hates the National Party, has as far as I know never said anything nice about Goodfellow (in fact he waged a no-holds barred campaign against him) and would quite happily see them stomped into the ground with Act taking their place.
Wow, you’re very much “in the loop” politically, aren’t you?
Amazing that I haven’t ever seen your handle before. lolz.
Portion Control = Damage Control
Hmmm
Simon Lusk is someone whose name I did not know until recently. He is implicated in the take over of the ACT party and also the anti MMP campaign. He is high up in the National Party and has significant links to the Beehive and Joyce. His name starts getting mentioned and then PC shows up and takes umbrage at this. Why the sensitivity?
I would not describe comments about Lusk as being “attacks”. He appears to me to be very competent at what he does.
Of course I could speculate at PC’s links to Lusk but lprent would not like it …
You can speculate all you like Micky, just as you speculated on Lusk and his so called high up connections in the Beehive which sound more like more fantasy from you of the kind that had you send the silliest lawyer’s letter to Peter Goodfellow that I have seen in a very long time. I’ve never met the guy and I tend to think if he was such a mover and shaker in the National Party more people would have heard of him.
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.”
Love it, I have a possible vulnerability on my computer so I take the liberty of testing it on somebody elses without their permission. Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
so much for “rambling”. Comprehension problem, Perception Control?
Well said McFlock
I would say definite comprehension and logical deductive reasoning problems. Have just commented on such to PC on “Silence of the Poodles” .Potty Control would seem to be a more appropriate moniker as a constant self reminder. “Must control pottiness, must control pottiness…….’
Reading about Christchurch Mayor Bob Parker stating he would not continue if he couldn’t have his choice of City Manager struck warning bells in my mind. It sounds like a step along the path to American cronyism.
There a leader (mayor) gets elected, and can sack the administration and bureaucrats of the previous leader and instal his own handpicked people. Our idea has been that the bureaucrats are largely servants of the government working under the law for the people and serving whichever party gets into power in parliament. But they are supposed to be able to offer free and frank advice that is not partial to the leader’s whims and bents. It’s a good idea and it shouldn’t be countenanced to have it subverted.
I don’t trust this new “Portion Control” person. He/she has made some very sideways and very weasely statements in the last couple of days.
Looks like someone sent here on a very specific mission.
I reckon he thinks he’s smart and he actually wants to call himself politically correct but I think it’s about damage control.
Or as McFlock says “Perception Control”
LOL
Your labour party handlers told you to say that when you ran out of lies to distract from Labour breaking the law by not protecting personal data didn’t they felix?
LOL, the problem is you have been far too obvious and many people here are thinking exactly what felix is.
Congrats PC,
You managed posting here for the first time to end up with only cowboy hat boy Gosman as your mate.
Handler??? Wow how’s that for thinking that people need to be handled in order to be able to see through you. So Cosby and Textor. LOL.
Travellerev if I can go to the effort of correcting myself when I spell Lynn’s name wrong then you can at least go to the effort of spelling my uncle Lynton’s name right. It’s CROSBY.
It makes jokes tooo!!!
Did you just pull the “I know you are, but what am I?” card, Percussion Cap?
Don’t be asking for a pay rise just yet, is my advice….
Yeah, these Labour party handlers are driving me nuts actually Codpiece Potion. I just want to do beat poetry but they’re holding me back and stifling my creativity.
ROFL. Great names!!!
It’s PC gone mad!
Haven’t seen him today. Maybe it’s just PC gone?
Not gone
He did improve markedly with his interactions after I lavished some personal attention on him with a auto-moderation clamp and a sarcasm reply goad.
😈
I don’t have him banned so it wasn’t me.
Not everyone has handlers, you know. Or maybe you don’t.
but if we don’t have handlers, how do we know what to say? It’s not like we’d just like honestly believe that the governments objective is just to favour the rich and fuck the country…
Why is Simon Power giving a speech in the General Debate, that focuses on attacking Goff’s leadership?
Oh and Finlayson is accusing Labour MPs of engaging in trivialities like flame wars & cycle races.
Yeah, did it seem like it was the exact same speech that half a dozen Nat MPs have read out every Wednesday for the last 3 years?
Yes, it seems to be a constant diversionary activity for National to bash Goff.
Surely Finlayson can’t be serious, accusing Labour of not being serious about the important and urgent politics because they do blogging stuff, and cycle rides. Meanwhile, where is JonKey? Dancing awkwardly down a fashion runway? Joking his way from one photo op to the next? And as for his stand-up routine that he used to deliver his budget speech?
Carol, the problem with mud slinging from the Nats regarding Goff is that mud just may be slung back. What a dirty tricks election it is going to be. The Nats have to watch their back as they never know when a blogger will pull them up for a similar thing they are accusing a Labour MP about.
Since about 21.00 last night, I have been reading newspaper clippings I had put in a big envelope dated from 1989 to 1996. I am very depressed to see that everything NACT are doing has been done before – in 1984-99. some changes are so long standing that I had forgotten things were ever different. Yellow Buses for instance – have been owned by the international company Stagecoach since at least 1993, yet I had forgotten that they were ever Government (or Council) owned until among my clippings I found a heap of objections to Jenny Schippelfat selling Yellow Buses off…. It is mega-depressing that it’s all deja vu all over again – the same anti-bemeficiary letters to the Ed., the same replies – the same think tanks putting their ideas forward. It’s all worse now though – in 1991-2, there was great indignation about DPB women being work-tested when their youngest child was 7 years old. Good grief, that was bad enough…. One thing I have noticed – I came across only one reference to DPB women ‘breeding for a living”. Maybe that meme hadn’t got started then, or it wasn’t widespread? Or maybe I just didn’t save in this inadvertent time capsule, any reference to it?
The more we change the more we stay the same. Your research is a bit depressing isn’t it Vicky. Sad to think that the population isn’t outraged by the thought of “making” mothers go back to work when the child is 12 months. Remember when Key suggested 6 years last year? He got away with that and so they seem hell bent on getting away with the sooner.
Wonder how many mothers (fathers?) on DPB would be affected and how many kids?
Oh yes, it’s deeply depressing! (I still have more clippings to go through, I am deciding what to get rid of, as I will one way or another, possibly, I hope, be moving soon!) It’s amazing how much rubbish one accumulates over 15 years in the same dump!) The scary thing is that in all those years, nothing has permanently changed…, (From 1999 to 2008, it did, but the changes didn’t stick..)
Boiling of frogs springs to mind. People now accept things they would have argued against in the 90s…
Fluff and a Jab
Green Party MP Metiria Turei asked some very important questions of John Key in Parliament today. Once again, the Prime Minister wasn’t there so Bill English tried to answer for the absentee leader.
In one particular answer given by the flailing Bill English, he said that the Government was helping to reduce the huge divide between the haves and have-nots ie disparity by improving immunisation and the Green’s inspired home insulation scheme. He must be joking!
Anyone watching Back Benchers? Simon Bridges seems to be having a hard time tonight, he looks tired and all of his yelling and talking over of others is quite telling. Big ups to Wallace Chapman who’s done an excellent job in tolerating his behaviour all night.