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Open mike 15/07/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 15th, 2016 - 94 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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94 comments on “Open mike 15/07/2016 ”

  1. b waghorn 1

    http://www.net-gun.com/

    An up scaled version of one of these should be in the boot of every police car.
    they used to catch galloping deer with them it would stop a fool with a machete .

  2. Tom 2

    Did some trials on them in the UK for riot control in NI. Not as effective as the baton round or( rubber bullet)

    • ianmac 2.1

      But a lone gunman or machette wielder in the open would differ from a person in a crowd.

  3. ianmac 3

    UK Labour Party rule changing. I wonder if the Party fears that a huge heap of anti-Labour Party activists could sign up to be members in order to”sink” the Party with huge “support” for Jeremy? Hence the shut down of voting rights. Could it be part of the Conservative Dirty Tricks brigade?
    NZ Labour Party could be vulnerable too.

  4. RTM 4

    Why is a former leader of the National Party writing columns for a magazine that celebrates neo-Nazism and advances anti-semitic conspiracy theories?
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.com/2016/07/david-ickes-kiwi-fans-and-their.html

  5. Puckish Rogue 5

    This is for The Pink Postman and Stuart Munro:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/82104175/police-shoot-man-in-rotorua

    Apparently pepper spray and tasers were used but didn’t stop the guy but were deployed before firearms were used

    I note that the guy is still alive and since the suggestion is, at this stage, the guy was high on meth a .22 probably wouldn’t have done anything but annoy the guy even more

    Normally I would use this situation to point out that this is exactly why the police have the weapons they have and why they use them

    I won’t however because we still don’t know the full story, we still don’t know if the actions the police took were the right action and we don’t know if any other actions could have been used

    So I’ll wait until the investigation is complete

    • mauī 5.1

      We get this, you’re an establishment guy who supports militarization. And if people happen to die while being in an unstable frame of mind for a split second of their lives then so be it.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1

        “We get this, you’re an establishment guy who supports militarization. And if people happen to die while being in an unstable frame of mind for a split second of their lives then so be it.”

        I support the police being given all the tools needed to do their job of protecting the community but I support keeping the military and police separate.

        When it comes down to it the police are reactive and they were reacting to (a couple of days ago) a suspected drug pusher and seller of illegal weapons with gang connections and, yesterday, a guy that pepper spray and tasers wasn’t working on, due to the possible influence of meth

        • Augustus 5.1.1.1

          As for the possible influence of meth, I think the words were that the perpetrator “may have been high on P” or somesuch on the news last night. Well, he may also have been an alien from Mars, or a shapeshifting lizard, we won’t know until we’ve looked.
          What I’m getting at, why is that even reported? Unsubstantiated guesses are not news. Attacking police is, of course, but why put that out there?

          • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1.1.1

            Exactly, when something like this happens you can put a bet on it that before all the facts and evidence are collected that commentators on the left will be crucifying the police and preparing the victim for canonisation

    • Stuart Munro 5.2

      He was shot and injured – you should be happy. A .22 could’ve shot and injured him as easily. Injuring is better avoided if possible.

      But, although it’s easy to be wise after the event, there are multiple options for restraining people with a machete in a reasonably open space:

      The deer capture device, nets or bolas. Pretty sure a cyanoacrylate entangler could be made that would incapitate anyone too.

      Capture sticks http://www.hsi.org/assets/pdfs/eng_ht_control_pole.pdf

      Riot armour & close to grapple.

      Someone trained with sword and buckler, bo or quarter staff ought to have been able to parry, disarm or subdue him. Presumably long batons also, with a shield. Especially several on one because of flanking.

      A number of gas agents that cause sleep or vomiting – though there are differing effects with drugged or hysterical subjects.

      No need to go all Chris Kyle on him.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.2.1

        “He was shot and injured – you should be happy. A .22 could’ve shot and injured him as easily. Injuring is better avoided if possible”

        If a taser and pepper spray isn’t going to stop him then .22 (unless it actually kills him) is probably only going to enrage him even more

        “The deer capture device, nets or bolas. Pretty sure a cyanoacrylate entangler could be made that would incapitate anyone too.”

        Do the police have those tools? No they don’t, the police only have the tools they’re issued with, they tried pepper spray and they tried a taser neither worked.

        “Someone trained with sword and buckler, bo or quarter staff ought to have been able to parry, disarm or subdue him. Presumably long batons also, with a shield. Especially several on one because of flanking”

        Are you serious? Please stop referencing Hollywood movies for your idiot ideas on how to take someone down

        “A number of gas agents that cause sleep or vomiting – though there are differing effects with drugged or hysterical subjects.”

        Its a wide open space so gas is less effective, depending on which way the wind is blowing you could end up with even more issues (you really want to gas a playcenter as an example) and unleashing sleeping gas?

        I mean are you aware of any allergic reactions anyone nearby might have?

        “No need to go all Chris Kyle on him.”

        Unlike you the police have to consider the safety of the community (and of course themselves as well), they warned the victim, the used pepper spray, they used a taser and the victim still wouldn’t stop so the police used their firearms and then the victim stopped

        • Stuart Munro 5.2.1.1

          “If a taser and pepper spray isn’t going to stop him then .22 (unless it actually kills him) is probably only going to enrage him even more”

          He can rage all he wants if you leg him a couple of times he’s going nowhere. But if you leg him with a .223 chances are you’ll wreck his femoral artery & won’t be able to save him.

          “Do the police have those tools? No they don’t” – “I support the police being given all the tools needed to do their job”

          Make up your mind.

        • Stuart Munro 5.2.1.2

          “Are you serious? Please stop referencing Hollywood movies for your idiot ideas on how to take someone down”

          On the whole the martial arts community probably have a better handle on tackling people armed with melee weapons that RWNJ armchair soldiers.

          • Puckish Rogue 5.2.1.2.1

            If you think you can adequately teach someone to take down a meth head armed with a long bladed machete nice and quickly without long and rigorous training then you really are naive

            • Stuart Munro 5.2.1.2.1.1

              The police are likely in the course of their careers to have to deal with angry people armed with improvised weapons or tools among which softball bats and machetes are reasonably typical.

              This is not a new phenomenon – shooting them is.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Correct, however anyone with an ounce of sense will tell you the closer you are to be able to take someone down armed with a weapon the closer you are to getting attacked with said weapon

                Hence why tasers and pepper spray are issued so police don’t have to go to their firearms as a first resort

                • Stuart Munro

                  If I were training them (never gonna happen) I’d want them to carry a shield if that kind of offender is outdoors (shields and doorways can be a problem) I think Scandinavian police have a small round version of the riot shield. Wouldn’t want to have to block a typical blow with a taser or pepper sprayer – same goes for a handgun really.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    The police were facing a potentially dangerous individual that was armed, that was ignoring police warnings, shrugged of pepper spray, disregard a taser and was in a built up area filled with people and you brilliant ideas include:

                    Tools the police don’t currently have
                    Martial arts training
                    A .22 to the leg
                    A shield

                    The police on the other hand managed to stop the individual without injuring themselves, without harm to any bystanders and the victim is still alive

                    Please don’t ever offer your ideas to the police.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      disregard a taser

                      Considering reports of what he was wearing I’d say that the Taser didn’t even hit him.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      Police often do have some martial arts training.
                      Police do have riot shields.

                      Police proved unable to contain the offender without shooting him, though he did not have a firearm. It remains to be determined whether his survival was professionalism or chance.

                      The proliferation of firearms among police remains questionable – though there is some evidently some convenience in using them to intimidate people who are not hysterical.

                      My ideas are pretty pedestrian – but yours are more in accord with the functions of an army than those of a police force.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      “Police often do have some martial arts training.
                      Police do have riot shields. ”

                      Yes some but police are also allowed to defend themselves as well and to use their judgement as to when to escalate the response

                      “Police proved unable to contain the offender without shooting him, though he did not have a firearm. It remains to be determined whether his survival was professionalism or chance.”

                      He didn’t have a firearm however he had a weapon, if you’d read any of the links I’ve provided (you wouldn’t though because its runs contrary to your opinion) you’d know that shooting centre is mass is designed to stop the person and that getting shot in centre mass is not a death sentence as you seem to think which means that they used lawful means to stop him

                      (Seriously click on some of the links, you might actually learn something)

                      “The proliferation of firearms among police remains questionable – though there is some evidently some convenience in using them to intimidate people who are not hysterical.”

                      If a firearm can intimidate someone into stopping being a threat then good.

                      “My ideas are pretty pedestrian – but yours are more in accord with the functions of an army than those of a police force”

                      Your ideas simply do not work which I’ve tried to point out to you with reasoning and links yet you seem to want to ignore everything that said.

                      My ideas are currently already in place with the NZ police, which I agree with

                    • Stuart Munro

                      PR you’ve been trolling me for days – it doesn’t make you more persuasive. We were trying to discuss the rising incidence of injuries and deaths from police firearms use – which might include alternative weapons or tactics. Your need to count coup has not served your argument.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      “PR you’ve been trolling me for days – it doesn’t make you more persuasive. We were trying to discuss the rising incidence of injuries and deaths from police firearms use – which might include alternative weapons or tactics. Your need to count coup has not served your argument.”

                      Your arguments are weak, based on opinions formed by Hollywood movies and not backed up by any links or anything more then “someone told me”

                      Whereas I’ve used countless links (which you ignore of course) to explain why police shoot at the centre mass, why they shoot at all and why shooting at centre mass is designed to stop rather kill

                      That you haven’t read any of the links and continue to espouse ideas like using martial arts against a meth head armed with a machete as completely reasonable or thinking that a bolt action .22 rifle is all that’s needed for police tells me you have no idea of what you’re talking about.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      Meh – your opinion and $5 will get me a cup of coffee.

                      You’ve cobbled together a bunch of conservative stats that justify doing nothing about what could be an alarming increase in fatal shootings. No wonder you support the Gnats – their do-nothing policies are aimed right where you live.

                      Why would I link for you? – you’re perfectly capable of using google.

                      “My ideas are currently already in place with the NZ police, which I agree with”

                      So you’re an authoritarian – no one is surprised.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      “Meh – your opinion and $5 will get me a cup of coffee.”

                      No, my opinion and most other western police departments in the world including the NZ police

                      “You’ve cobbled together a bunch of conservative stats that justify doing nothing about what could be an alarming increase in fatal shootings. No wonder you support the Gnats – their do-nothing policies are aimed right where you live.”

                      No I’ve linked from different sources, including left wing newspapers, that all explain why police shoot at centre mass rather then the legs and help explain police tactics

                      “Why would I link for you? – you’re perfectly capable of using google.”

                      You don’t link because you can’t find anything reputable to back up what you say

                      “My ideas are currently already in place with the NZ police, which I agree with”

                      “So you’re an authoritarian – no one is surprised.”

                      and you’re simply wrong in this matter

                    • Stuart Munro

                      “You’re simply wrong on this matter”

                      As the person most frequently proved wrong on this site PR, your opinion is scarcely determinate.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      “You’re simply wrong on this matter”

                      As the person most frequently proved wrong on this site PR, your opinion is scarcely determinate.

                      Lets see now, I’ve backed up my argument with links from many different sources whereas you…haven’t 🙂

                      However instead of using sound reasoning, logic or links you’ve gone for insults, its a bold strategy I’ll give you that 🙂

                      I know what you were thinking though, you were thinking you could say a couple of insults, champion the use of non-lethal weapons, maybe throw out some over used emotive terms and hey presto you’d prove your point 🙂

                      Unfortunately you’ve shown your opinion has been formed by Hollywood, you have no practical experience to speak of, you’re not interested in changing your opinion in light of new information and, quite frankly, your views on this matter are a joke 🙂

                      But please keep on going, at the very least I find you amusing so you have that going for you 🙂

                    • Stuart Munro

                      Two dead and one wounded this month – laugh it up.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      “Two dead and one wounded this month – laugh it up”

                      Don’t worry, I’m not laughing at the victims or the police, I am laughing at you though 🙂

                      Hey for whats it worth I knock off at 1630hrs so you’ll be able to post something no doubt terribly witty and cutting and get the last word in, won’t that be something for you 🙂

              • Chuck

                I reference your response to me below…that you have seen first hand the effects of meth on someone. So you should know the difference between a person on meth or a person just worked up (say pissed) is immense.

                This is now what the police have to deal with…”the new phenomenon”.

            • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1.2.1.2

              I would expect the police to get that long and rigorous training as part of their basic training and ongoing development.

              • Puckish Rogue

                As well as long and rigorous firearms training as well as long and rigorous training on applications of the law and etc etc

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Yes, exactly.

                  Probably need more police officers and full time police trainers which would require more funding – exactly the opposite of what National have been doing:

                  2016
                  2015
                  2013

                  I note that the last time that the police got better funding and more actual police officers was under the last labour led government.

          • Chuck 5.2.1.2.2

            Police receive training in “take down methods already”. Even a person not high on meth or similar is not easy to restrain if they don’t want to be.

            I wager Stuart that you have not been around someone high on meth? they feel no pain, have enhanced strength, and anyone in their way – look out.

            The police are between a rock and hard place…if for example yesterday the suspect hurt or killed a member of the public while the police were trying to subdue him…guess what the headlines would be today?

            There is no easy answer to deal with people high on meth (or similar drugs) when trying to arrest them.

            • Stuart Munro 5.2.1.2.2.1

              You’d lose your wager – I prefer the term adrenalised – people can reach that stage without drugs too. They’re a handful for half a dozen people – but they’re not exactly Inigo Montoya.

          • McFlock 5.2.1.2.3

            Actually, on the whole, no they don’t.

            Yes, some of them teach useful skills. Some of those skills might even be useful on the street. But most martial arts are sports, now – many holds/moves are illegal, but most importantly you’re not defending yourself from someone who is intent on doing you serious harm. That’s a very different kettle of fish.

            That’s not to say it can’t be done, but I think your restraint techniques are the product of too much D&D.

            It’s actually more about teamwork than anything else. And, in my experience, making sure you’re the one who grabs the feet, not the end with the teeth.

            Although in this instance there was a dog on scene at the time or very soon afterwards, so I’d be asking why that wasn’t considered or was turned down.

            • Puckish Rogue 5.2.1.2.3.1

              Sure, one of the reasons that until the dust has settled and the matter investigated that we shouldn’t jump to conclusion and start trying to apportion blame

              • Sabine

                How many Meth / P addled people are roaming the streets of NZ?

                • Puckish Rogue

                  274 692 thousand as 1407hrs 15/07/16, why do you ask?

                  • Sabine

                    i seem to miss them all.

                    i see road rage a lot, a lot of angry yelling and shoving, a bit of drunken disorderly conduct, but the way you speak about it i was wondering if I needed to call a support person tonight before going home, lest I meat one of your rampaging machete wielding Meth / P addicts.

                    And what is our Minister of ze Police doing? Is she hiring? You know to save us all from the Meth/P Zombies roaming the streets of NZ.

                    • Sabine

                      So to put some perspective

                      search in Google

                      People killed in NZ by drunk drivers

                      https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

                      and then
                      search in Google
                      People killed by machete wielding P addicts in NZ
                      comes up with the geezer killed by Police
                      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/82104175/police-shoot-man-in-rotorua

                      It seems that maybe you want the cops armed so they can shoot drunk drivers? They seem to be a bit more of an issue in NZ.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Well Sabine I’m talking about how the polices response may (or may not be depending on the investigation) be appropriate for the situation they find themselves in

                      I’m talking about the gear they’re allocated to use and why its reasonable for them to use them

                      I’m also saying why we (all of us, even myself) shouldn’t rush to judgement and decide that the police should be tried and convicted or the victim is a living saint before all of the facts are known

                      I’m sure you’ll be safe on your way home though

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Hi Sabine

                      Nice diversion attempt

                      Thank you

                    • Sabine

                      i have no doubt i will be safe on my way home. I have always been. As for arming the force, once we have a better force, some of the cops that i have had to deal with (bikie here 🙂 ) i would not even entrust with a knife and fork, as they don’t seem to be the brightest but the most obedient lot.

                      But you made it sound as if we had to fear the Meth Zombie apocalypse while in fact more people get killed by drunk drivers then anything else. 🙂

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      “But you made it sound as if we had to fear the Meth Zombie apocalypse while in fact more people get killed by drunk drivers then anything else.”

                      I’m sorry you feel that way but what is your opinion on how the police could have handled this latest situation or indeed the previous situation

                      Do you think they were justified, do you think they could have handled it differently and, if so, how?

                    • McFlock

                      Do you think they were justified, do you think they could have handled it differently and, if so, how?

                      well, a textbook response would be to maintain a defensive interval of at least 20m from the suspect so he’s not an immediate threat to your life.

                      Now, the police are maintaining that the proximity of the carpark and mall required immediate closing of the gap, so that’s their legal justification sorted. Whether distractions could have been used to heard him into a tactically useful area is another question.

                    • i was wondering if I needed to call a support person tonight before going home, lest I meat one of your rampaging machete wielding Meth / P addicts.

                      If you think really hard, you might be able to figure out why the statistical unlikelihood of meeting a rampaging, machete-wielding P addict was of little use to the two cops faced with a rampaging, machete-wielding P addict (EDIT: assuming that the adjectives other than ‘machete-wielding’ actually apply in this instance).

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      “well, a textbook response would be to maintain a defensive interval of at least 20m from the suspect so he’s not an immediate threat to your life.

                      Now, the police are maintaining that the proximity of the carpark and mall required immediate closing of the gap, so that’s their legal justification sorted. Whether distractions could have been used to heard him into a tactically useful area is another question”

                      I wonder if a dog team could have been used as well but then how long would it have taken them to get there (or was a team nearby)

                      I can say the thought of taking on someone armed with a big machete, that’s shrugged off pepper spray and ignored a taser is not something high on my to do list

                      I guess these answers will come out in the investigation

                    • McFlock

                      lol yeah as to do lists go, it sucks.
                      They’re bad enough without the machete.

                      But part of the trick is to not let your adrenaline make you almost as dysfunctional as the bad guy (which is incidentally why most police firearm training involves firing at centre mass – fine motor skills like aiming are the first to go under stress).

                      The biggest clusterfucks I’ve seen (no guns or blades, thankfully) were when the security guy or cop got just as objective-fixated and tunnel-visioned as the bad guy. The best “ninja move” I ever saw was a verbal discombobulation that confused a chap so much he forgot to clock off and walked away with a chuckle.

                      And I’m not sure the investigation will ask the right questions. Big angry guy with machete approaches cop, cop pulls trigger, all legal. But do the police actually have a full investigative body that would ask questions like “how did they get into that situation in the first place?”, “what could they have done to avoid that situation?”, and “for shits and giggles, what other ways could the situation have been resolved?”? Not even in a disciplinary sort of way – just walk it through with the officers involved, when did they start to fear for their life, what were they seeing, what were their colleagues seeing, could they have used more psychological methods, etc.

                      For instance, forget firearms certification: how often are police officers trained in identifying and dealing with people under different types of mental distress, including the stereotypical P psychosis? Six month refresher seminars? Or half a day at police college and that’s it?

  6. Puckish Rogue 6

    Warning extremely graphic content: Police release body camera recording of the shooting of Dylan Noble (seriously you’ve been warned)

    Bugger being the cops in this situation

  7. save nz 7

    In some countries this would be called corruption, but in the US this is called Democracy.

    Monsanto Paid Senators $58 Million to Pass Anti-GM Labeling Bill

    http://anonhq.com/monsanto-paid-senators-58-million-pass-anti-gm-labeling-bill/

  8. Andre 8

    A good explanation of how the idea of competition to sharpen everybody up to get ahead has fucked up how science gets done, when science really works best in an open, collaborative information-sharing environment.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/14/12016710/science-challeges-research-funding-peer-review-process

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1

      Society works best when the people in it work cooperatively as well.

      IMO, it’s competition that’s destroying our society and that article highlights just one aspect of how it’s being destroyed.

      “Over time the most successful people will be those who can best exploit the system,”

      Meanwhile, the people best at the actual job will leave and do something else as they’re not supported in their efforts.

  9. Andre 9

    For Bernie bros and rabid Hillary-haters that have deluded themselves into thinking the orally flatulent mutant swamp-carrot is the better choice…

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/14/12167824/bernie-sanders-on-trump

  10. Greg 10

    http://www.thegirlsproject.org.nz/

    [Second comment in as many minutes that’s been sent to ‘open mike’. That link has nothing whatsoever to do with the post – or anything anywhere that’s being discussed. Cut the crap or you’ll be sent on holiday] – Bill

    • Corokia 10.1

      While backing up some statements with evidence is sometimes warranted. I think putting up link after link after link is unnecessary and it isn’t really “commenting”.
      Not meant as a personal attack Greg ☺. Others may like it

    • weka 10.2

      Is this another display of your misogyny Greg?

  11. ianmac 11

    Qi has some good stuff. This is about the 1% of Americans who are in prison. Includes the 3 strikes Law. The Ratio of black white. Terrifying.

  12. save nz 12

    Don’t be Nat Lite, Labour!

    “Christchurch has become a city strangled by corporate control foisted on the city by the National government in the form of MP Gerry Brownlee and assisted by the Mayor – former Labour MP Lianne Dalziel.

    Dalziel has led the charge to sell city assets beginning with the council works division City Care which is currently on the block. She is still implementing the failed 1980s Labour government policies which enriched the wealthy at the expense of the rest of us.

    The culture of corporate greed and council impotence is such at the council recently gave a $300,000 grant to multi-millionaire developer Antony Gough for an energy-efficient heating system for his $150 million apartment development.

    So while low-income residents can’t afford to turn on the power to keep warm in winter Gough will be able to reap that much more profit from the tenants of this development.”

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/07/13/minto-for-mayor-in-christchurch/

  13. save nz 13

    Its official: both US presidential candidates now oppose the TPPA:

    Hillary Clinton delivered a shot across the bows to the Trans-Pacific Partnership as her bid for the US presidency was endorsed by Bernie Sanders, a vocal opponent of the controversial trade agreement.

    […]

    But at a rally held in New Hampshire yesterday to mark Sanders’ endorsement, Clinton, the presumptive Democratic nominee, went beyond the bounds of the party’s official platform.

    “We’re going to say no to a tax on working families and no to bad trade deals and unfair trade practices including the Trans-Pacific Partnership,” she said to a raucous crowd, which included many Sanders supporters.

    Its not dead yet – there are still fantasies that the US Congress will ratify it in the “lame duck” session, where they can’t be held accountable for their decision – but in the likely scenario that that doesn’t happen, the TPPA will be over.

    Meanwhile, legislation to implement the TPPA in New Zealand is currently before select committee, but is due back in November. Hopefully the government won’t move too quickly on it. Otherwise we could be left in the situation of extending our copyright term and gutting Pharmac for nothing.

    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz

    • Bill 13.1

      If either of the US or Japan don’t ratify, it dies – meaning that any and all concessions from whoever become null and void.

    • emergency mike 13.2

      Of course there is often a difference between what politicians say when they are trying to get elected, and what they do after being elected.

      My money is on Clinton pulling a Peter Dunne circa “willing buyer willing seller”, demanding superficial changes then claiming that having won ‘concessions’ the TPPA is now aok for the peoplez.

      As I’ve said before it is a constant source of amusement to sociopaths and psychopaths that all they have to do is say stuff and people will believe it.

      For them words are just things that make people do what they want. You can always figure out how to lie your way out of your ‘promises’ and ‘positions’ later.

  14. Greg 14

    You forgot the cat antics.

    I spend some time deleting God Squad posts, and advertisements.

    [I make a comment that specifically criticises dross and you reply with dross? Fuck off. Moving to ‘open mike’] – Bill

  15. Paul 15

    This article is worth a thread in its own right.

    Brian Fallow: Ignoring the landlord in the room

    An excerpt from this important article

    In Auckland investors now account for 46 per cent of all sales, QV says, up from 37 per cent in 2012.

    The combination of high investor demand and rampant house price inflation is no coincidence. It reflects the toxic interaction between how the tax system and the banking system view the purchase of rental properties.
    For the taxman, the landlord is in business and entitled to deduct all the costs, including interest, incurred in earning taxable rental income.
    For a bank, the landlord is someone borrowing against the security of a dwelling and banks are generally happy to lend as much as the Reserve Bank allows.
    But few other businesses can gear up their balance sheet to the same extent. Few other investors can enjoy the same benefits of leverage in a rising market, amplifying the increase in their equity until they are ready to collect their tax-free capital gain.
    The message from the tax system is clear: if you want to provide for your old age, don’t save money. Instead, borrow and engage in highly geared plays in the housing market.
    Dealing with this now perilous distortion requires a pincer movement, attacking it from both the tax and banking (macro-prudential) sides.
    Otherwise gravity will prevail, in the form of the ever-widening disconnect between house prices and household debt on the one hand and incomes on the other.
    The Reserve Bank is doing what it can. The Government is not.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11674502

  16. Jenny Kirk 17

    How real is this – currently on The Daily Blog “BREAKING EXCLUSIVE: UMR SECRET POLL – National 41% Labour/Greens 45%”

    Does anyone have any updates ?

    • ianmac 17.1

      It is a private UMR poll rather than one of those public ones Jenny. But if true not only Winston will be pleased but certainly the 12% Green and 33% Labour will be pleased. Roll out the Joycie speak.
      I think that Stephen Mills from Nine to Noon is UMR.

    • James 17.2

      I guess you could trust it as much as anything else posted on the Daily Blog.

    • dv 17.3

      And supported by Hooten

  17. AsleepWhileWalking 18

    Killary mounts Pokemon Go! event demonstrating superior understanding of her constituents.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-14/peak-pandering-clinton-plans-pokestop-event-ohio

  18. One Two 19

    “The show attracted a lot of criticism, so much so that it was referred to the ABC’s independent Audience and Consumer Affairs (A&CA) unit who considered the complaints, including a detailed complaint from AMTA (Australian Mobile Telecommunications Association), the peak body for the mobile telecommunications industry in Australia

    As a result the episode has been retracted and taken off the Catalyst website and the iView site and reporter Dr Maryanne Demasi has been suspended from on-air assignments”

    Another brick from the wall

  19. Ad 20

    Four years ago, the Republican platform on Israel read:

    “We support Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state with secure, defensible borders; and we envision two democratic states – Israel with Jerusalem as its capital and Palestine.”

    And now this week, Trump and the Republications have got a Convention manifesto that throws the two-state solution out the window for the first time in over 30 years:

    “The U.S. seeks to assist in the establishment of comprehensive and lasting peace in the Middle East, to be negotiated among those living in the region. We oppose any measures intended to impose an agreement or to dictate borders or other terms, and call for immediate termination of all U.S. funding of any entity that attempts to do so.”

    Trump tweeted on Wednesday:
    “The Republican platform is most pro-Israel of all time!”

    Generally I’m a pretty firm Israel supporter. But this is a nasty peace reversal for Palestinians. This Trump Republican position is more aggressively anti-UN and anti-Palestinian that I’ve ever seen in U.S. foreign policy.

    • Bill 20.1

      Am I reading that right? That this proposal would have the US not engage in any ME peace processes? (Maybe not such a bad thing seeing as how they’ve essentially stymied any progress for years and decades)

      We oppose any measures intended to impose an agreement or to dictate borders or other terms, and call for immediate termination of all U.S. funding of any entity that attempts to do so.

      • Ad 20.1.1

        It’s pretty fresh news, within Foreign Policy’s paywall.

        But yep, that’s what it means.

        • Bill 20.1.1.1

          So…if the UN attempts to broker a deal, where the UN suggests conditions, then the US doubles down on it’s historical recalcitrance to pay its UN dues or levies.

          So…the UN engages in a purely neutral fashion – as a facilitator.

          If Israel throws up a host of pre-conditions, then Israel loses US funding? I guess not, insofar as they are directly involved in negotiations and so couldn’t be said to be imposing anything.

          Given that Israel holds most of the cards in any negotiations with Palestine due to massive asymmetries of power, the US going ‘hands off’ and kind of threatening sanctions of a sort on anyone who gets ‘hands on’ in any way…I’m thinking that proposed US stance would be a gift to Israel.

          • Ad 20.1.1.1.1

            It would indeed.

            I’ll keep you posted as soon as the Democrat Party line on it goes up.

    • One Two 20.2

      How many ‘dual citizens’ occupy positions of so called power and authority in the USA?

      Which ME states have nuclear weapons?

    • North 20.3

      Mmmm…….Ad…….interesting that you say “Generally I’m a pretty firm Israel supporter.” Can’t quite put my finger on why I’m not surprised. I guess vibes can be read quite reliably.

      • Colonial Viper 20.3.1

        Israel, the state built on paramilitary ethnic cleansing and land confiscation.

  20. Herodotus 21

    In a time of low inflation how is it that this weekend the price of parking at middlemore hospital has increased by 11% ?
    Not nice especially as the catchment comprises of many of those disadvantaged and struggling🤑🤑

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