Open mike 15/11/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 15th, 2015 - 45 comments
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45 comments on “Open mike 15/11/2015”

  1. Tinfoilhat 1

    Deepest sympathies to the families and friends of those killed in Paris and indeed our thoughts are with all of France.

  2. Wairua 2

    This reads like a plot from ‘Day of the Jackal’ by Frederick Forsythe.

    DeGaulle reputedly survived ~50 assassination attempts when he
    took France out of NATO and Algeria, all thwarted by the French services.

    Hollande is not DeGaulle – but the common factor is large defence establishments facing defeat in colonial wars.

    Frederick Forsythe could not publish all he knew at the time ..

  3. The Chairman 3

    Can we expect rights and freedom to be lost in the state retaliation to this attack?

  4. Tory 4

    So the liberal policies that have seen mass immigration into Europe have resulted in direct related terrorism.
    Rightly or wrongly and in the words of Maximus Decimus Meridus ‘ On my command unleash hell’.

    • savenz 4.1

      @ Tory. I don’t think ‘liberal policies’ are the problem, France are targeted because of their airstrikes in Iraq and Syria.

      “They attacks came despite France – one of the founding members of the US-led coalition carrying out airstrikes against Islamic State positions in Iraq and Syria – being on a high state of alert for possible terrorist attacks in the run-up to a global climate conference later this month.”
      “A further reason for the lack of violence in France was the success of its political class in distancing the country from the US-led war on terror and its almost universal opposition to the war in Iraq.

      Those defensive advantages, however, have now evaporated. “We can’t close our eyes to it,” Trevidic said. “We are now in the eye of the hurricane. The worst is yet to come.”

    • mary_a 4.2

      @ Tory (4) – you state the following – “So the liberal policies that have seen mass immigration into Europe have resulted in direct related terrorism.”


      So what you are saying is that desperate migrants, escaping a war zone, have been crossing border after border with their families, including young children and babies in Europe, loaded with weapons of mass destruction tucked away in their paltry possessions?

      ONE Syrian passport found in close proximity of a dead suicide bomber in Paris this weekend is not enough evidence to support your statement!

      It seems as more information is emerging, this was an inside job, with the Da’esh stamp all over it!

  5. Tory 5

    What many commentators here in NZ do not understand is the increasing level of distrust and anger that residents of Western European countries are feeling. This is highlighted in articles such as this,
    While the liberal left sit here in the safe comfort of their quarter acre section and bungalows, calling for open boarders in Europe, residents in countries such as Switzerland, Germany and Denmark are seeing massive influxes of refugees that are bringing huge social problems and anxiety not seen for decades.
    The outcome of what we are seeing will be similar to the crusades where east verses west will result in bloody conflict for decades. There is no answer as both sides are diametrically opposed to each other’s values so get used to it. The only bright light through all of this is the increase in arms manufacturing and the war machine will keep us all out of recession.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1

      God you’re full of shit.

      A Belgian citizen and a French citizen have been implicated in the murders. How many refugees were trying to get into Europe when the staff at Charlie Hebdo were murdered?

      No, what we have here is a racist, who will twist any event to his racist narrative. MI5 have made it plain: racists like Tory are part of the problem.

      • tc 5.1.1

        Yup tory gets a new angle to fan the fire from. Expect more.

      • Psycho Milt 5.1.2

        These Belgian and French citizens were Belgian and French in citizenship only. It’s similar to when UK media reports about “Britons” fighting for Da’esh – mostly they’re referring to Pakistanis who were raised in the UK but are about as British as chipotle. Allowing mass immigration into Europe by people who consider themselves Muslims first, whatever their ethnicity is second, and citizens of whatever country they end up in a very poor third, can be seen in hindsight to have been a recipe for trouble. Much as it pains me to agree with the fascist commenter above, the current doubling-down on mass immigration by Muslims is suicidally stupid.

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Prejudicial nonsense – the same sort of prejudicial nonsense that blames “cultural norms” for sexual assault by Afghani cops.

          Refugees, for the most part, are fleeing people like Tory.

          • marty mars

            + 1 Exactly!

          • Psycho Milt

            True but irrelevant. The refugees are mostly fleeing people like Tory, and it constitutes mass immigration by Muslims.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              …looking for a better life, and being harrassed and discriminated against by people like Tory while doing so, which fosters more bigotry. It’s the bigotry and personal character of the Tories of this world that is the problem: religion is a convenient excuse.

      • Foreign Waka 5.1.3

        You are wrong, it is true that the Europeans will close the boarders as you need to understand that this conflict between the east and west, between different religions and cultures, is 100’s of years old.
        NZ had the Moa roaming whilst the Islamist stood at the walls of Vienna, having made it further into central Europe with every attack. There was no ambivalence there, they wanted to conquer Europe. Full Stop. This desire has not abated.

        This is not to say that today’s asylum seekers are not also victims of radical behavior.
        However, what is happening now is the precursor of a defense mechanism that works every time and everywhere. To presume that Kiwis “would be above this” is plainly not true. I know that we all belief that we are better educated, intellectually on a better approach but alas – if you and your family is being threatened, you will defend. I am certain of that.
        As for the citizen of Brussels and France, it would be interesting to know, whether they were originally immigrants from Africa or Middle East or descendant? Because every asylum seeker and immigrant is taking up citizen ship to gain access to the welfare system – this you need to understand.
        By the way, it was just confirmed that ISIS has taken responsibility for the attack.

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          You are wrong…

          That may very well be so: it wouldn’t be the first time. That said, your comment doesn’t address the point I made at all: bigots and wingnuts on both sides are the problem.

          • Foreign waka

            I doubt any of us will ever be able to. What we do know is that in times of relative prosperity dialog prospers. The question is in whose interest it is not to have this taking place.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              I doubt any of us will ever be able to.

              On the contrary: democracy, human rights and the rule of law – modern progressive values – are the only things that have ever succeeded in reigning in the atavistic instincts of the Right.

              • Foreign waka

                Enlightenment certainly will do that but look around the globe and tell me, how much democracy has been established with all the war that is going on? How many times will the Amnesty International or UN reports be ignored as human rights become less important than the political bonds. In relation to NZ Australia, ref the current Christmas Island issues.. As for the rule of law, every country has their own laws but this does not mean justice is being done.
                So I wish that the atrocities, injustices and inequalities would go away but it is not in the interest of the money moguls. The first world is only the first world because there is a second and third…

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  The rule of law is not a matter of having laws, it is a matter of who is required to obey them.

                  The Kurds in Northern Iraq established democracy during wartime. Likewise in Syria.

                  If the money moguls have any sense of history they know that peace is more profitable than war.

    • I think this could be the E.U.’s defining hour. It will make or break under the refugee crisis, which will test the patience of its member states to the limits and possibly beyond. Will they be able to hold it together as a bloc or will internal rifts tear it to bits?

      I think the E.U. might be in the early stages of coming apart. Its member nations need to accept their colonial past and the horrors that they inflicted on their former colonies, especially those in the Middle East and north Africa. Unless and until they do, the atrocities of the last few years caused by I.S.I.S. and Boko Haram in Africa, will continue.

      • Foreign waka 5.2.1

        I think you need to come to grips with History. Most of the Euro countries were once Monarchies and 2 WW have done away with them. France had their own gruesome revolution taking care of the “guilty” of colonization via the guillotine.

  6. savenz 6

    Under TPP is you are worried about ‘opening borders’ – what do you think massive immigration and buying up of land here in NZ is going to do? It is not the ‘liberals’ that are advocating immigration here in NZ it is the Torys, while also advocating sending NZ military over to Iraq to be ‘part of the club’. Saudi Arabia, Russia and many others are keen to ‘invest’ here and our government can’t wait to welcome anybody in here, no questions asked (just bring your cheque book). The joke is that Saudi Arabia is probably funding a lot of the terrorist operations and our government is giving them 11 million in sheep bribes and are a ‘friend’ of the US. Inspite of most of the 9/11 terrorists being from Saudi. Guess those Charter schools have a lot of answer for in the US. Saddam was against the Muslims and ISIL never existed before the US invaded.

    Meanwhile here in NZ, SIS is busy with Dotcom and Hager smearing Phil Goff, and probably targeting environmental groups like Greenpeace and the Unions who might want a ‘living’ wage. Now that is a Crime, certainly many in Wellington seem to think so by suing the council.

    Having mass surveillance does not work – if anything it makes security forces complacent, being used politically and not going back to basics. Likewise you should be encouraging public discourses from any suspected terrorists instead of sending them underground where they are harder to watch.

  7. veutoviper 7

    On this sad day, I think we all need some good news.

    Pip Keane, former producer of Campbell Live, is rejoining John Campbell at RNZ; along with Catherine Walbridge, producer of Nine to Noon for four years and more recently a producer for The Nation.

    A formidable team.

    • ianmac 7.1

      Though on Media RNZ this morning the new program won’t start until January 18th. There is hope yet with such a great team. But will Key find a way to cut the funding or fire some key people?

    • Hami Shearlie 7.2

      That is GREAT NEWS!! I can’t wait for his programme to start!! My mother will be listening to John and watching the captioned “The Chase” quiz show at the same time – Ladies do multi-task so well – the knitting might even come out too! – Boy, how TV3 has sunk like a stone since John left! Who watches that channel now?

  8. So, we have the Paris attacks, and the whole world is reporting it.

    But months ago we had the Garissa University attack which killed as many people and barely a word was said.

    And nary a word has been said about an attack in Lebanon hours before the Paris attacks.

    The media clearly have a pro-western bias.

  9. RedBaronCV 9

    I know it’s of much lessor importance at the moment but looks like the local body elections are off and running. There are a steady flow of articles in the MSM dissing non right wingers.

    In weekend Stuff-Dompost Duncan Garner has written an opinion about how Wellington has not been well served by its current mayor.
    Trouble is Duncan G appears to live in Auckland not Wellington- so just why is he doing this? Why does he suddenly have this huge negative opinion about someone he would rarely encounter and no doubt does not pay rates for?

    • Rosemary McDonald 9.1

      “Now her council is embroiled in an unnecessary and expensive legal scrap over a ridiculous decision to pay a living wage to council contractors.”

      Question….Is Duncan Garner being paid the minimum wage or living wage when he writes propaganda like this?

      • RedBaronCV 9.1.1

        DG could also have added but didn’t “and this legal scrap has eminated from a group whose directorate includes someone from Westpac bank and other similar large organisations” not yer local corner dairy then. Plus
        “A group prepared to waste other ratepayers money on legal fees which will doubtless top anything that will ever paid over on the living wage”

        But I do feel that there is a certain lack of shall we say equality of opportuniy here. The council resolution could perhaps have gone on to say “and no other employee of the contractor can be charged to the contract at a rate exceeding say 10 times the living wage rate” and then they would have to argue both legs in court.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          ” “and no other employee of the contractor can be charged to the contract at a rate exceeding say 10 times the living wage rate””

          But that would have made the Council dirty little Trotskyites…:-)

          Why is there so much opposition to paying all workers a living hourly rate?

          (That’s a rhetorical question by the way….before the protagonists on the right leap in to answer. Are they paid by the word by any chance?)

          • RedBaronCV

            Trotsky or not – it would have been interesting watching the justification lines:
            “increase to living wage may cost ratepayers more”
            “but there are large savings on executive salaries ”
            “that doesn’t count ratepayers need to pay the executive wage.”

            I ask myself just how popular would be a move to cap local body, CCO, CEO and government salaries at say $350k right across NZ. I’m guessing it would be about 80% yes!

    • alwyn 9.2

      You have apparently come up with an interesting complaint.
      Should we have a rule precluding anyone who does not live in an area from commenting about the things that go on there?
      May we take it that when Kelvin Davis, who I believe to be a resident of New Zealand, comments on Australia and Christmas Island the only appropriate comment we should make is –
      “You don’t live there so STFU!”

  10. Grim 10

    I play chess, game of kings you know.

    Knowing a pawn is a piece on the board manipulated by an invisible hand, misled by loyalty to it’s ruler in no way reduces the pawns threat.

    Opposing Pawns are the immediate enemy, you don’t hug them and expect them to hug you back. They are the enemy of the day, and must be addressed.

    Those that see the game, place the blame with the 1 percent, but even they still only see the game as being on the board, focusing only on the pieces presented to them.

    In reality all pieces on the board are pawns.

    The trick is to stop looking down at the chess board, the enemy is a little higher up.

    They seek to control the board, to finally become safe and untouchable, as gods.

    In Chess if both sides don’t move and stay on their squares there is no conflict to be exploited, the hidden hand is powerless and any move it makes becomes visible to all.

    Anyone who seeks to impose their will on others does the work of the hidden hand.
    Anyone who transgresses against another does the work of the hidden hand.

    Those that render themselves defenseless and make themselves victims do the work of the hidden hand.

    They want the board, a one world government, I say no, stand your ground, defend your square, retain sovereignty, Fuck the TTP and Fuck John Key and Fuck liberal traitors.

  11. alwyn 11

    In other news Kelvin Davis denounced the management and staff at Paremoremo Prison.
    “All the employees there should be dismissed. Serco are completely incompetent and none of their staff should be retained. They should be prosecuted for failing to protect the saintly persona of a man from my electorate.
    It is a total disgrace and the people running the prison should be prosecuted”.

    When it was pointed out to him that the prison was run by the Corrections Department he immediately complained that he had been misquoted and that everything at the prison was being run superbly and the prisoner must be a rat-bag trying to frame the prison officers.

  12. Hmmm, a false quote and an inconsequential link. It’s almost like you’re making it up, Alwyn.

    • alwyn 12.1

      Me? Make it up?
      How could you possibly think such a thing? I am truly hurt that you could even consider such a possibility.
      Am I not to be allowed a little bit of creative writing?
      It is only a tiny little bit exaggerated, surely?

  13. North 13

    Alwyn…..give us the link which confirms what you say Davis said. It would be extraordinary were he to truly understand that Paremoremo is run by Serco. You can assist here.

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