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Open mike 16/08/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 16th, 2020 - 149 comments
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Open mike is your post.

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Step up to the mike …

149 comments on “Open mike 16/08/2020 ”

  1. Andre 1

    The latest attempt to use clever editing to try and make some sense of Grampa Rage Nappies' noises still doesn't come out making any sense.

  2. aom 2

    The f-wits of the week award has to go to the organizers and participants in yesterday's Right to Life "Death March" in Christchurch as reported on RNZ this morning. Big deal – the thousand who attended 'obeyed the law' by being in groups of 100. Tell that to the health workers if they all have to be tested because only one carried the Vovid-19 virus. More importantly, which of the self-entitled wankers will apologise to the team on 1.5 million in Auckland for their insensitivity or the thousands of rugby fans who were unable to attend the final match of the season, even though they could have 'obeyed the law' by being in groups of 100. No doubt the small trucking firm owner in Tauranga whose drivers are all having to self-isolate because they were at the border on legitimate business would love to offer some words of advice to the marchers on how to be part of the team of 5 million.

  3. dv 3

    Murdock cartoon. Cruel an funny

    Make sure to note the inscription on the scythe!!!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/94869389/sharon-murdoch-cartoons

    • SPC 3.1

      ACT

      There will be interest on any unpaid student loans until you die, and while you may not choose to euthenasia, our let the coronavirus spread policy will leave you trapped in your home scared to get either assisted care in an old age facility or visit a doctor.

      • Tricledrown 3.1.1

        Given the number of Doctors dying from Covid 19.Doctors visits could be a thing of the past.we will have to use technology to interact with health care providers to prevent collapse of our health system.

        • SPC 3.1.1.1

          Sure. The problem then is the net connectivity of some of the aged – some are/were not even able to order food on-line.

          Then there are the many academics with tenure who are refusing to take classes in person this semester in the USA. On-line teaching is going to develop a lot further.

        • greywarshark 3.1.1.2

          I fear this will happen. I enjoy a friendly as well as reliable relationship with the pair of doctors where I go. That is part of the value of the treatment.

        • Peter 3.1.1.3

          In the situation of there being no doctors we could use the services of the highly qualified know everything keyboard experts who wanted life to carry on as usual right from the beginning of the virus. They knew so much and would have had no interventions past "You've got this new flu thing, go to the doctor."

          • lprent 3.1.1.3.1

            I think that you are attributing too much understanding and empathy to Trump. His tweets have never said “go to the doctor”.

            I suspect that they would have said something more like “it is Obama’s fault”.

            /sarc

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.4

          we will have to use technology to interact with health care providers

          That's not actually a bad thing.

          I have a watch that measures my heart rate, blood pressure and blood oxygenation. Throw in an app that records that info and asks questions about how you feel and sends that to the doctor and then a doctor/nurse can determine if you need to see the doctor or not.

          Even without covid this would be a good system to implement.

          • SPC 3.1.1.4.1

            I'd supply these to all rest home workers – esp if it includes temperature.

          • George 3.1.1.4.2

            Remarkable as these watches can be…we have a reasonably expensive smart watch that also does these things but it records steps..that haven't been taken. Which means it may also record blood pressure that may not be accurate and heart rates that are probably a bit off as well.

            • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.4.2.1

              I did read up on the devices. The blood pressure and oxgenisation seems to be reasonably accurate.

              The heart rate, not so much. I've ended up doing three readings in sequence and then averaging them.

              The long term record would be most important but the devices do need to become more accurate as far as heart rate go.

              And the steps are way out and not to be taken seriously.

  4. Ad 4

    I found the death notice of one of the world's last Waffen-SS soldiers in Geraldine pretty yuck.

    How many more of these types did we have here?

    https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/south-canterbury/former-waffen-ss-officer-dies-96-geraldine

    • swordfish 4.1

      .
      Was he one of the world's last Waffen-SS soldiers per se ? or one of the world's last Waffen-SS soldiers specifically in Geraldine ? … if the latter then it sounds like the South Canterbury Township might have been a more popular bolthole for Nazis than the whole of South America.

      By my reckoning, that leaves just 6 remaining SS, 4 Gestapo & 2 SD Stormtroopers left in the secret Geraldine refuge-hideaway … along with 3 remaining Mussolini Blackshirts in the nearby Italian Fascist stronghold of Temuka.

      There’s a plausible theory that Hitler & Von Ribbentrop are still holed up in Gore with a bottle of whisky & a couple cyanide pills. But if it’s ac hoice between Gore & suicide you’d think they would’ve gone for the latter.

      • Pat 4.1.1

        LMAO

        • greywarshark 4.1.1.1

          Ha – it's like the opposite of an Easter Egg hunt. The trouble is that we have a different sort of diseased person that afflicts our souls, sort of passe' trying to eliminate these old germs, when there is a new lot of people as diseased in the mind circulating everywhere.

          Brighten up with Crosby SNY Southern Cross – maybe we can sail away from the bad old world to something good leaving the dirty dealers streaked behind us like a comet trail burning up in our wake.

          • greywarshark 4.1.1.1.1

            Some good words from Southern Cross for those seeking the real New Zealand.

            When you see the Southern Cross for the first time
            You understand now why you came this way
            'Cause the truth you might be runnin' from is so small
            But it's as big as the promise, the promise of a comin' day

      • aj 4.1.2

        Gore & suicide

        From someone who has never visited Gore, I'd guess

      • woodart 4.1.3

        gold

        • aj 4.1.3.1

          Visited a week ago, great meal at a local restaurant then went to a NZIFF screening of Once Were Brothers: Robbie Robertson and The Band at the St James theatre. More class and culture there than long standing mythology would lead anyone to believe.

          • greywarshark 4.1.3.1.1

            Good country music comes from around Gore and they have an interesting art collection. I know those things about Gore. Don't think it's Ruddygore as Gilbert and Sullivan put it.

            To divert. This is Ruddigore from the Minack Theatre. Amazing

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minack_Theatre

            (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5gcGcxREA71uJW7vR5at7P2M5Pwk_8_5

            And further:

            Anyone read Derek Tangye's stories about his Cornwall time there with wife Jean? Delightful, a very loving relationship in a picturesque setting, growing flowers mainly for the London market.

            (https://www.pinterest.es/pin/384987468144984988/

            https://alchetron.com/Derek-Tangye

            On Google about Derek – Derek Tangye was educated at Harrow and subsequently worked as a journalist on national newspapers. During the war and afterwards he was a member of MI5, before he and Jeannie moved to Minack. Jeannie died in 1986 and Derek in 1996.

            But as I look through the info about them, I find them outed as spies to Russia!! (It isn't amazing that people believe conspiracy theories as we live the White Queen's situation of believing six impossible things before breakfast.)

            But in 1949, to the total astonishment of friends and colleagues, including stars Danny Kaye, Noel Coward, Tyrone Power and Bing Crosby, the Tangyes suddenly abandoned their life as one of London's most glamorous couples and moved to a broken-down cottage in Cornwall.

            The revelation that they were spying for the Soviets suggests they may have been living in fear of exposure and quit London before their treachery was discovered.

            According to the secret Soviet file, they continued spying long after their self-imposed 'retirement', maintaining many valuable connections vital for Moscow but keeping out of the way of MI5 spycatchers. http://not4attribution.blogspot.com/2014/05/spies-princess-margarets-butler-and-top.html

            • greywarshark 4.1.3.1.1.1

              And while they were feeding the Russians (bosh or borscht?) they may have been providing a service for MI5 – we must not forget the double-switch with 'watchers'. My money would be on that, a valuable but easy to refute way of maintaining some sort of intelligence balance. Intelligent? Could be.

      • Gabby 4.1.4

        Tell me more of what you know about the suicide rate in Gore.

        • aj 4.1.4.1

          It is not cluster or hotspot to the best of my knowledge. I don't come from Gore, and I shouldn't react to unjustified cheapshots but someone has to stand up for the place. Yes, I know it’s satire but I don’t joke about suicides. Other than that I love Swordfish's posts 🙂

      • AB 4.1.5

        Poor old Denis Glover – was he thinking of this when he wrote sardonically:

        "I dream of what may yet be seen / in Johnsonville and Geraldine"

        Is Herman Goering in Johnsonville? It is part of the Ohariu electorate and Herman was known as something of a dandy. (Now scanning the photographic archive for any images of him wearing a bow tie, bouffant hairdo etc..)

      • Andre 4.1.6

        That was quite an impressive diversion, from a post expressing disgust about us harbouring and delivering glowing whitewashed obituaries for an actual Nazi, turning it into a slagfest on Gore.

        • RedLogix 4.1.6.1

          Yet the left gives safe harbour to any number of openly unapologetic marxists. Even here at TS they're either indulged as 'harmless' relics, or we leave unchallenged their endless weasel excuses about why every actual marxist state has been a humiliating, dangerous and miserable failure.

          It's cheap and rewarding to do outrage at right wing fascists and race supremacists, but the willful hypocrisy of also remaining blind to those who go too far on the left does rather invite a some pointed mockery IMHO.

          • Adrian Thornton 4.1.6.1.1

            "Yet the left gives safe harbour to any number of openly unapologetic marxists"..what is even more surprising around here is the number of unapologetic free market liberals who still have the gall to call themselves Left.

            • Andre 4.1.6.1.1.1

              It must be tough, being "the only leftie in the village".

              • Adrian Thornton

                "It must be tough, being "the only leftie in the village".

                No it isn't… though it is quite sad seeing so many good people being first blinded then turned by the greed mechanism that is inbuilt into the very heart of the ideology of liberalism… witnessing them abandoning bit by bit their core principles and critical thinking abilities to justify to their inner being the reason that they now follow an ideology that they know deep inside is one of insatiable and ultimately suicidal endless growth regardless of the consequences to humans or the planet….that part is a bit hard at times Tbh.

                But I consol myself by just being grateful that I haven’t succumbed to the undeniable allure of that short term free market liberalism trap….that will leave most of our children and grandchildren never owning their own home and without long term job security etc and so forth.

          • Andre 4.1.6.1.2

            If that's an attempt to segue into another crack at BLM for being marxist, I think you're a long way off the mark on that one. This Politico piece explains why and delves into the background of how that "BLM is marxist " thing came about as a Repug attempt to damp down the heat they were getting over it.

            https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/10/elections-republicans-black-lives-matterbacklash-389906

            • McFlock 4.1.6.1.2.1

              What I find funny is that "Marxist" covers everything from Stalinism to Democratic Socialism and a few more mild flavours at that. I can understand why the yanks shit a brick at the mere word, but anyone with a glancing knowl;edge of the history of the NZLP should know better.

              • AB

                It's foolishness of barely undergraduate level – probably inspired by Jordan Peterson. If I can blame Marx for Stalinism, can I also blame Jesus for the Spanish Inquisition and Nietzsche for the Holocaust?

                • McFlock

                  It is, however, convenient for people whose real issue is with the name of the movement but can't express that without coming across as more than a bit racist.

                • greywarshark

                  AB Your argument seems to be logical. But who am I to attempt my individual understanding when there are so many learned people here. Perhaps there could be a hold on ordinary transmission of political theoretical jibes until after the election. Does anyone know whether there is going to be an attempt by Nats and JC to bring the Court into delaying the election? Please correct me severely if that has been discussed elsewhere and direct me to it. Thanks.

                • RedLogix

                  probably inspired by Jordan Peterson.

                  I read Gulag Archipelago shortly after it was first published, and my first trip to Russia was 20 years ago. That was the one when I got to visit the Gulag Museum at Perm. Peterson merely puts the case, a case I had long believed, far more eloquently than I could.

                  As for your 'undergraduate foolishness' crack, I can only note that it was the so-called intellectual left in Europe and America who were most completely sucked in by Stalin for decades, obdurately refusing to acknowledge the undeniable and inescapable suffering of those who died by the tens of millions in his Marxist utopia.

                  And now the truth cannot be whitewashed away, they pretend "it wasn't real marxism". After my experiences I read that with the same gut reaction as if someone tried to defend National Socialism by claiming "Hitler wasn't a real nazi'.

            • RedLogix 4.1.6.1.2.2

              I've previously linked to the 2015 video where one of the two co-founders openly and unambiguously describes both of themselves as "trained marxists" and links this training to their motivation and vision for the organisation they were creating.

              Case closed.

              • solkta

                Mind closed.

                • RedLogix

                  Bravo, scintillating and convincing argument there.

                  Many millions of people who have visited the Holocaust memorial's at Auschwitz come away from the experience with not only a deep emotional impact, but a much broader understanding of exactly what happened. In one sense it opens their minds and hearts, and in another it creates a determination to draw a line in the political sands, a boundary that says fascism and race supremacy theories are unquestionably off limits.

                  I never really planned to go to Perm, it was a spur of the moment decision based on a chance conversation I had while on the train returning from a work trip. It's the same experience as Auschwitz, but one that's far less accessible to most Westerners, and it's spare grim horror remains a chill memory.

                  And again the more recent trip to Magadan was another work trip commissioning a gold processing plant at Polyus. The highway you travel on to get from Magadan to site (it's a long trip) is known as the "Road of Bones". You have to be oblivious to history not to feel something of the past slipping into your soul, while riding on that bus.

                  Whether these experiences (and others) opened my mind to marxism, or closed it off, is a semantic debate you are free to have with yourself.

                  • solkta

                    There is obviously no point in trying to argue with you. You have made up your mind that Marxist equals Holocaust, as you demonstrate again. Others here have an education.

                    • RedLogix

                      It was the 'educated' left wing intellectual elites of Europe and America who were sucked in by Stalin for decades.

                      As any conman will tell you, their lies only succeed because their victims want them to be true.

                    • RedLogix

                      Marxist equals Holocaust

                      And here you make a foolish undergraduate mistake in drawing an equivalence between two things in different categories. Marxism is a political theory, the Holocaust was an event. They cannot be logically compared.

                      On the other hand I am drawing an explicit equivalence between marxism and fascism, and if you wish between the stalags and the gulags.

                    • solkta

                      yawn.

          • Andre 4.1.6.1.3

            I was kinda hoping someone else that actually wanted the argument today was going to pick up on this other aspect of that comment about "the left" and TS harbouring marxists: it's a helluva false equivalence between disgust at the idea of harbouring a former actual serving nazi, and allowing keyboard warriors to express their opinions and desires without feeling the need to pull them up by their shorts every time they do, no matter how loony-left or marxist or maoist or stalinist they may be.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.6.1.4

            why every actual marxist state has been a humiliating, dangerous and miserable failure.

            Because they weren't Marxist. This has been explained – in excruciating detail.

      • mikesh 4.1.7

        One writer claimed that Adolf died in 1964 in Patagonia. It has always been suspicious that the Russians won't allow anyone access to his alleged corpse.

    • Adrian Thornton 4.2

      Looks like he was part of the 2nd Waffen SS Division Das Reich, judging by where he said he fought, that Div. gained a pretty brutal record of atrocities in France and who knows what the fuck they got up to in Russia! They also earned themselves an extremely formidable combat record as well.

      Not sure if you can condemn all members of the Waffen SS outright, most were just plain combat troops like the troops of other nations, though maybe more ideological, especially during the first few years of the war…even Gunter Grass ended up as a member.

      • Sabine 4.2.1

        The Waffen SS demanded a bit more loyalty then the regular conscript into the Wehrmacht.

        As for his claim 'i did not know' fuck him, There is enough photographic evidence to point out his lying, both as for the atrocities committed against Russians, Poles, Jews and anyone else in between but also of the hanging of conscripted Germans on the road side trees for cowardice and treason.

    • Gabby 4.3

      He seems to have kept the rallies to a tolerable minimum.

  5. Robert Guyton 5

    The Chesswas Letter

    (A local National Party official has written to leader Judith Collins with an impassioned plea for the party to oppose Covid-19 restrictions.)

    “This election, more than ever, National has nothing to lose. We need to sack the media-doting risk-averse PR-"guru" advisors and pollsters we have relied on for too long, who focus on only only that portion of Kiwis with an overblown sense of trust in a media that is driven by and feeds human anxieties more than facts and truth,” Chesswas wrote.

    He said National should align itself with the New Conservatives, who are arguing against the new lockdown, and the New Zealand Public Party, whose co-leader has suggested the “plandemic” is a bioweapon.

    Experts have condemned the New Zealand Public Party for spreading this theory, which does not have a basis in fact.

    ”We needs to start sounding like the principled freedom loving right wing Kiwis that are the backbone of our party,” Chesswas wrote."

  6. So the pressure this disease has provided, shows clearly that we have small but quite deranged groups of people who do not believe in community. Forewarned is forearmed.

    Many have outed themselves as not community minded win at any cost and bring the government into disrepute and practicing the dark art of Dirty Politics.

    We are getting a clear picture of who to trust.

  7. Jack Tame is giving Judith Collins a grilling on TV 1. She has obviously had some PR training and is keeping her voice low and speech slow ; not lurching into her usual fish wife style of conversation.

    • joe90 7.1

      Judith's eyebrows were up, too.

      • Incognito 7.1.1

        She doesn’t know which one is up and which one is down so the default position is both up. Just watch for the smug semi-smirk.

    • Morrissey 7.2

      her usual fish wife style

      ???? sad

      I know a lot of fishermen's wives. None of them are remotely as nasty or dishonorable as Judith Collins.

      Back in the days of the Bolger/Shipley maladministration, Winston Peters used to abuse fishwives in order to make a point. Whenever the late great Whanganui M.P. Jill Pettis interjected during one of his speeches, he'd say: "It's market day."

    • Muttonbird 7.3

      Bacteria is the wife of Unhygienix, the fishmonger.

  8. Observer Tokoroa 8

    Simplicity – the Winner

    Covid- 19 seems to have some people in an understandable "What The Hec" mode. "We are condemned forever". We have to wash our hands. Keep a distance. Get Check ups. Avoid Transmission. Oh Poor us. tch tch tch

    I dont think we are in great difficulty. 102 days without any Trouble. Currently much much less today.

    Strangely enough, the main worriers are the so called people who keep the Economy going. They are bleeding at the corners of their eyes and heart and every other little doggy bit.

    Month after month the wealthy are nagging "What about the Economy" ? night and day.

    The Vaccines are not yet available. As happens with Viruses. For Virus are living things and they keep a deep control on their living structures.

    Equally, we humans have learnt over time how to cope with the Virus enemy. Right back from the Spanish Collapse and dreadful other Viruses.

    We, the Simple People, are following our wonderful Leaders – Jacinda Ardern, Doctor Bloomfield, Chris Hipkins, Testing staff. And the Sciences.

    Our economy is working if our Foreign Banks allow. If all of us follow our Leaders. And if the Wealthy get off their comforts and stop nagging.

    The very Elderly, will do as they do day in and day out. They will thank Mother Earth on their death bed. For they are robust Kiwi and Whenua and Family.

    • Treetop 8.1

      My heart sobs for those who have plenty and that they are being restricted by a pandemic in increasing their wealth.

      Losing money may as well be a disease to those with enough who are complaining.

  9. Pat 9

    The population question (for NZ)

    "The reality of New Zealand’s primary production exports is that the natural resource set is already close to fully used, with environmental sustainability issues already of major importance. There will still be some technological advances that can contribute to improved production and productivity, but it is going to be hard work.

    In relation to population issues, the bottom line has to be that if New Zealand’s population continues to track upwards at rates similar to the last decade, then land-based exports can only decline on a per capita basis. Where will the new exports come from to pay for imports items for which New Zealand is poorly positioned? That issue has to be brought forward into any immigration debate"

    https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/106554/any-debate-immigration-has-consider-fixed-natural-resources-have-be-spread-across

    Its said we currently produce enough food for 20 million people and as Keith Woodford notes we are pretty much at maximum output, difficult improvement aside….with primary production and migration of our two pronged approach to non NZD earnings and one prong badly blunted for the foreseeable (if not permanently) then simple arithmetic suggests any increase in population will provide a corresponding decrease in offshore purchasing power and consequently a loss of national wealth and living standards regardless of distribution issues or demographics

    • greywarshark 9.1

      Interesting facts that keep breaking through the fog of other considerations. The most important get pushed aside.

    • Foreign waka 9.2

      Pat, quite right and not to mention that the best land for growing food is used for housing. Stupidity has no bounds.

    • SPC 9.3

      Short term growth through population increase is no more sustainable than the carbon economy.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.4

      Ah, someone's finally starting to notice the actual economics of our nation and not just the delusional finances that has been the bedrock of government policy for decades.

  10. SPC 10

    Tina Ngata says many of the conspiracy theories circulating online find their genesis in the alt-right, particularly in the United States, and are promoted by white supremacist movements wanting to destabilise centrist governments.

    Health officials trying to stamp out rumours as well as COVID-19 – Hipkins She says New Zealand's history of colonisation and poor treatment of tangata whenua means some sectors of Māori society are particularly susceptible to these conspiracies. "They take advantage of people who have a natural distrust of authority and so it finds very fertile soil in the minds of communities that have been oppressed in the past."

    Māori sociologist Dr Tahu Kukutai agrees. She says there are specific conditions that lead to conspiracy theories being adopted by disadvantaged communities such as economic insecurity, inequality and feeling disempowered and COVID-19 has created a perfect storm of these factors.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/block-or-engage-how-to-deal-with-wh-nau-caught-up-in-conspiracies.html

    Which is why Maori should do some work in their community to prevent this, because when MOH is accused of racism for moving to quarantine people infected in the community (only when brown skinned people are the ones being infected) it invites resistance to public safety policy. Seeking a working relationship with MOH cuts both ways.

    • I Feel Love 10.1

      They are. Doing work in their own community. Some are reminding their people about the 1918 pandemic & the cost to Maori, not all Maori are conspiracy nutters, in fact the 'protest' in Whangarei was pathetically attended, it's just the keyboard fantasists stirring shit that makes them more prominent than they are. Of course, as we see in the USA this shit is dangerous, the qAnon Republican candidate in Georgia is utterly terrifying. WTF is going on? As if there isn't enough crap to deal with right now.

    • Incognito 10.2

      You have a Moderation note waiting for you here: https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-14-08-2020/#comment-1741513. Please respond, thanks.

  11. Gabby 11

    I'm worried that Big Brown hasn't drawn attention to the unusual delay in announcing the Lotto results. It's interesting is all I'm saying. Does Big Brown know something?

    • I Feel Love 11.1

      It is all very convenient isn't it Gabby? That's all I'll say but someone should resign over this, where's that RW journo when you need him.

    • OnceWasTim 11.2

      It's really really spooky eh @ Gabs. In a similar 'vein' I'd really really like to know what Billy TK senior thinks of his junior. The disenfranchised of course are open to "draining the swanp" more than most, and its unfortunate that Labour hasn't picked up on this in any useful sort of way (in this space, going forward) – pragmatic incrementalism and all I 'spose prevents it and there's a heap of consultants, media analYsts, ditherers and various other hangers-on that need their tickets to be clipped.

      I guess we'll see in the fullness of time. Of course the senior naturally loves the produce of his loins – and of course he always was a better guitarist.

    • Robert Guyton 11.3

      " Does Big Brown know something?"

      Ordinarily, he claims to know nuffink, but here he's implying he knows everyfink, but won't say nuffink and that listeners are free to make up anyfink they want, so long that it hurts Jacinda's reputation. Big Brown then, appears to be a fink!

  12. Robert Guyton 12

    "Everything is held together with stories. That is all that is holding us together, stories and compassion."
    – Barry Lopez

  13. Sorry Weka, was skyping elderly friends on the Sunshine Coast.

    The groups are varied. Out Doors Group which seems to have a vocal American voice shouting "Freedom" slogans, Billy Te Kahika with his conspiracy theory party, Facebook users abusing the current covid victims, Gerry Brownlee firing his bosses DP bullets, among others. There are good people in National, and many are onboard with the Health requirements to contain this virus. What we do regarding the dangerous minority is hard to know. Positions are hardening imo

  14. joe90 14

    It gets worse.

    It’s not clear what set off the police chase, but Slyman appears to have been convinced by QAnon theories that the government was out to kidnap his children. Inspired by videos he had watched online, Slyman warned his children during the chase that the police were coming to abduct them—or maybe just shoot them in a staged killing. In return, they begged him to pull over. His daughter even tried to grab the wheel of the minivan and drive it off the road after he accused her and his wife, who had dived out of the vehicle at the start of the chase, of being agents of the nefarious cabal that QAnon believers say controls the world.

    “They want to make us crazy,” Slyman said, “but I’m not crazy. My wife and my daughter were a part of it.”

    http://archive.li/hXVPH (dailybeast)

  15. I still can not get my reply button to work. Lenovo on vodafone.

  16. aj 16

    From openDemocracy

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/government-u-turning-on-the-u-turn-on-local-covid-contact-tracing/

    "If you buy something and it's not delivered, you wouldn't buy it again. Right?

    Not, it seems, if you're the UK government and one of your mates or top donors is selling it.

    We've just uncovered how two giant firms – Serco and Sitel – have landed lucrative deals to continue running NHS Track and Trace, despite major failures.

    Serco and Sitel are reaching less than half of the people they're supposed to be contacting. They're charging £900 per person traced. Experts have branded it a 'disaster'.

    Yet now they're getting up to £520 million to carry on – while councils mopping up their failures get no extra cash. Why?"

  17. ianmac 17

    National is to release their Covid Policy later this week according to Collins.

    They could claim impossible restrictions because they don't have to action their policy. Things like testing every "frontline staff" weekly. Firing every staff member who slips up. Publishing every bit of information that is not now being published. Demanding that any virus carrier be exposed and named as a carrier. Demanding that the frontline team declares exactly where an infection came from. Compulsory masks. Compulsory everything.

    Demanding that Dr Reti follows Collins position on virus and fire him if he acts in a reasoned manner against the greater Collins knowledge.

    • Treetop 17.1

      There are snags when it comes to testing, waiting for the result, being a close contact with a negative result, time isolating and front line testing.

      Getting the who, when, why and how tested is important?

      Throw the politics away as they are mudding the waters. The priority is elimination and for every political party to strive for this. The country will know when elimination cannot be achieved.

  18. Treetop 18

    1. Am I correct that if a contact of a cluster a person has to stay home until the result is known and even if a negative result the person has to isolate for a total of 14 days?

    2. Am I correct that if no symptoms and not a close contact and you had a test that you do not need to stay at home?

    3. Or if no test done and a contact from a cluster then you need to isolate for 14 days?

    4. I expect that if a negative result and then you become unwell that you can get retested.

  19. PaddyOT 19

    Monique Hanotte: The teenage Belgian spy who walked 140 airmen to freedom.

    Monique (Henriette) turns 100 years old with an inspiring story of courage and selflessness as a young woman assisting the Comet Line.

    " With the benefit of 75 years of hindsight, Monique remains insistent that she didn’t do anything out of the ordinary. "

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/monique-hanotte-teenage-belgian-spy-walked-140-airmen-freedom/

  20. PaddyOT, @ 19 Monique was working for the greater good, so she sees herself as a small cog in a big wheel

    Currently we have too many thinking their own good is important, and they are happy to jam the wheel of greater good with self interest

    • PaddyOT 20.1

      The same thoughts when posting the story. The idea that examples of selflessness might become more scarce as the past's ' heroes' from all walks disappear and the outlook if societies become driven by self first attitudes is concerning.

  21. observer 21

    Winston has read my comment on here yesterday, and is now calling for Oct 17 as the election date. Presumably he's doing a Bridges, and trying to score points by calling for something he already expects to be announced.

    Safe prediction: PM will announce the delay at 10 a.m. tomorrow, and we'll have a silly game of "told you so" by various politicians.

    It will make no difference to the election outcome, which is all that matters.

    • Muttonbird 21.1

      He's also trying to distract from the indirect lashing he got from Chippie this afternoon regarding the spreading of fake news.

      He's claiming the GG "should know" the majority of Parliament don't support a Sept 19 election date but since when has it been Parliament's decision? And how on earth does he know a majority of Parliament supports a delay?

      • observer 21.1.1

        It says everything about NZF's irrelevance now, that he is giving a press conference and nobody is bothering to carry it live.

      • SPC 21.1.2

        It's apparently automatic for the GG to issue the writ as soon as the PM decides on the date.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12356049

        Peters is inferring a majority for the latest date possible means a later date should be chosen.

        That would not influence a GG, the Electoral Commission is the body repsonsible for the election once the date is decided and the writ issued automatically afterward.

        With parliament no longer standing Peters cannot propose a no confience motion to form an election date coalition (Seymour Peters Collins in no particular order),

        Its mere electioneering. If for example there was another outbreak in November parliament would have to recovence to authorise by 2/3 majority an election next year.

        The PM is still quite free to decide.

        For mine, she could extend the date out 2-4 weeks (longer to cover uncertainty about how long it will take to close this down), and allow a longer period of early voting at level 2 and a slower campaign at Level 2

        (presumption Auckland will go to Level 2 for 2 weeks after the 2 at Level3)

        It willl still be the Electoral Commission who decide if it can be held on the day. I'm not sure what happens if they do not hold it in the day and early voting has already begun. Just keep early voting available until a Saturday can be used?

    • PaddyOT 21.2

      Winston's your fanboy following your posts, awww jealous ! sad

  22. Muttonbird 22

    Despite me not wanting to hear much from experts, here's a good Skegg article on RNZ. He says of a Hong Kong colleague involved with SARS 1:

    The Hong Kong professor (said) there are three essential components to dealing with these pandemics and they were physical distancing, including mass masking, testing and rapid contact tracing, and border controls.

    He said if you relax any one of those three, you better make sure you really tighten the other two.

    I'm in Auckland and there's not a lot of mask wearing. I don't wear one outside but I do whenever I go inside with the rest of the unwashed. I'd say mask wearing in Auckland indoor public places is still only 30-40%.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/423630/covid-19-how-new-zealand-can-avoid-lockdowns-in-the-future

    • ScottGN 22.1

      I think the mask wearing request is starting to get through in Auckland. I’ve just been to the Mt Eden Countdown and I’d say 80% of the queue were masked. I always have mine with me but I don’t wear it if I’m out walking alone and not getting within 2 metres of anyone. I use it for crowded pavements and shops and will presumably use it on the bus when we go back to work.

      • Muttonbird 22.1.1

        Hope you are right. I still see a lot of people in close contact situations not doing it.

        National Party voters.

  23. Muttonbird 23

    Rimmer wants 4 weeks at L1 before the election date.

    But here's the thing, L1 didn't really work.

    L1 gives us a false sense of security so we shouldn't really be going back to L1 until there's a vaccine, or at least better treatment and testing, and better compliance.

    Curious Rimmer is now on board with levels and such after rubbishing the entire government approach in favour of throwing the vulnerable under the Covid bus.

    Also, I would have thought Rimmer would want an election asap as his stock has never been higher.

    • McFlock 23.1

      Level 1 is fine. It stops worry fatigue, and lets the country exist as normally as possible.

      We have a single cluster. Big deal. We've adjusted our conditions to match the threat. When that cluster is eliminated, we'll go back to level 1. When the vaccine comes and is distributed, we'll go back to level zero.

      • Muttonbird 23.1.1

        I'd like to see better direction under L1 next time. The Nats and Barry Soper whinged about Covid info being broadcast as a way to keep the populace under Ardern's control!

        But it's clear lots of people need reminding.

        • SPC 23.1.1.1

          The mistake we made at was, people

          • SPC 23.1.1.1.1

            Not able to edit.

            The mistake we made at level 1 was that people were complacent about testing for COV2 because they presumed it would be cold or flu. Such self isolation is not good enough because of family contact spread and delay in finding out it is back.

      • observer 23.1.2

        That's true. It's also another reason to delay (for a short period).

        It's a sad certainty that when gov't announces a reduction in the level, PM will be accused of politicking, she'll say it was on DG's advice, opposition will insinuate DG is biased, etc, etc.

        Better if that doesn't happen a week before the election.

        • McFlock 23.1.2.1

          What has it got to do with election timing? Maybe L3 will be an issue, but if it's back to L2/1 by september, no worries

    • SPC 23.2

      If we delayed an election until the country was at Level 1, we could be leading the world into an era without elections for 1-2 years. With the US election coming up, its an example Trump would cite again and again.

      • observer 23.2.1

        Come on, Trump (and his potential voters) don't know or care what happens in a small European country near Germany called Noo Zeeland.

        • McFlock 23.2.1.1

          lol the number of yanks and brits who were sudden twitter experts on our nation beg to differ.

    • Incognito 23.3

      Rimmer wants 4 weeks at L1 before the election date.

      Can somebody please ask him when the whole of the country will be back at L1? Or should we ask the virus?

      Can they please also ask him what should happen if there’s another step-up in Alert Levels somewhere in the country?

      If extra time and a delay will play in the hands of National, will it also benefit ACT?

      I’d think that voters want some sense of clarity and certainty. Shifting election dates is ‘shifty’ behaviour, politically speaking. However, voters also like fairness and possibly care less about legitimacy. So, what’s fair and what’s legitimate?

      When the PM writes the writ, how might that affect any possible step-ups in Alert Levels between now and Election Day? The election campaigns of political parties should not take precedent over or come at the expense of measures to keep all of us safe.

      • observer 23.3.1

        And of course it's the government that decides levels.

        "New poll out, Labour down, announce return to level 2".

        Just get Seymour to sign a document saying "I hereby declare election null and void in the event of a single positive case of the virus, within one month of scheduled election. Until then government rules indefinitely, with my blessing". That should shut him up.

        • Incognito 23.3.1.1

          Seymour is all about freedom, which means freedom from responsibility, and he’ll never sign a document that will put the weight of the nation on his shoulders. He’s all show and only good for show, on TV. Bunch of self-serving nihilists 🙁

      • Muttonbird 23.3.2

        +1. I meant to add that Seymour's approach is entirely dependent on what the virus does rather than what people can take control of.

        • Incognito 23.3.2.1

          Exactly! It’s no way to plan the Election or govern the country. Might as well read the tealeaves, if we were to follow Seymour’s ‘lead’.

          We already have too much uncertainty due to lockdowns, and the overall effects of the closed border, et cetera. Businesses are facing going belly-up and people are in fear of losing their jobs. School students are looking at 2020 as a very disruptive year, one that will follow them for years to come.

          I wish the current crop of MPs would stop thinking about themselves, less about their own interests, and more about the five million people in this country, many of who have it much tougher than any MP.

    • mauī 24.1

      Now imagine what it might be like for Māori, who don't just have 1 misspelled place name, but likely thousands dotted around the country.

  24. joe90 25

    Short thread on the Lebanon/Hezbollah snafu.

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1293624764322414592.html

    • Draco T Bastard 25.1

      The problem with that thread is that it assumes that FDI is necessary and is thus the reason for the reform that the author wants.

  25. Robert Guyton 26

    "Ardern’s political style rests on her personal appeal, but it has also been criticised as superficial – or, as Bill English put it, “stardust”."

    Bill "Fence Post" English. Respected authority on Dipton, sheep, dipping sheep and double-dipping, reckons the Prime Minister's essential quality is "stardust". We are stardust, Bill, as Joni Mitchell so elegantly sang.

    • mac1 26.1

      "and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden."

      Great song, beautifully sung, and the science of the words “we are stardust” is so far advanced in its grasp of the universe.

      Then the reference above, (following the line ‘we are stardust, we are golden”), which I read as meaning getting back to simplicity and back to what is important, a vital message post-Covid 19.

      • weka 26.1.1

        Incredible song. I take that line to be about that generation taping into the potential spirit of humanity. We've lost so much since then.

        I agree about the simplicity message, and what is needed how.

    • Just Is 26.2

      Bills just Jealous cos he was a 3 times bridesmaid, PM 3 times but was never ever, ever, ever, voted into the position by the people of NZ.

      Bill knows that, but still wonders why

  26. Muttonbird 27

    Powerful Kiwirail campaign here.

    https://www.nearmisses.co.nz

    • greywarshark 27.1

      Can't figure that M. What does it say? Looks about crossing smashes.

      • Muttonbird 27.1.1

        It's to draw attention to the high danger around the many level crossings in this country, and to the impact near misses have on train drivers' mental health.

  27. Muttonbird 28

    Lotto seems to have fallen off its perch of trust.

    Proud anti-gambler in all its forms here and I think funding of community sports etc needs to be revisited.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12356935

    • Draco T Bastard 28.1

      Lotto seems to have fallen off its perch of trust.

      Doesn't sound like it. Just sounds like their computers got swamped as more people than expected signed in to buy online rather than going to the store.

  28. Sabine 29

    FDA approved fast and cheap saliva test .

    twitter thread makes for interesting reading

    https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1294654256763609090

  29. Pat 30

    "National Australia Bank Ltd on Friday urged customers at high risk of default on their loans to sell their properties sooner rather than later, as it reported ballooning credit impairment charges during the quarter."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/nab-results/update-2-australias-nab-urges-high-risk-clients-to-sell-homes-soon-idUSL4N2FG06O

    whither Australia goes NZ follows

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