Open Mike 16/11/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 16th, 2018 - 142 comments
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142 comments on “Open Mike 16/11/2018”

  1. Ed 1

    Concerning news.
    Good work by Matt Nippert.

    A police investigation into a campaign of harassment against prominent China researcher Anne-Marie Brady has widened to include apparent efforts to sabotage her car.
    University of Canterbury professor Brady, who gained international profile over the past 18 months for her work exposing China’s influence campaigns – including in New Zealand – was subjected to a series of mysterious break-ins at her home and campus office in February.
    These burglaries, apparently targeting electronic media including phones, computers and USB drives, sparked high-level interest with the Prime Minister expressing concern, and the Police began a nine-month – and still ongoing – investigation involving Interpol.
    The vehicular sabotage represents an escalation for the case, coming on the heels of recent vitriolic editorials in local Chinese-language media describing the professor and New Zealand-Chinese democracy activists as “anti-Chinese sons of bitches”…..

    ……Commentary in local Chinese-language media has been an especially heated, with a recent op-ed by Morgan Xiao – published simultaneously by SkyKiwi, the Mandarin Pages and the New Zealand Chinese Daily News – describing Brady and other New Zealand-Chinese democracy activists as “anti-Chinese sons of bitches” who should “get out of New Zealand”.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12160570

    Some background.
    John Campbell takes the time to research in more depth.

    • SaveNZ 1.1

      +1 Ed – harassment, illegal activity like stealing data for foreign powers, (or worse) should NOT be acceptable in NZ and there should be a lot more resources on it.

      We have had the French agents blowing up Rainbow Warrior, Isrealis stealing our passports and now Chinese agents apparently taking data/harrassment/stealing from NZ researchers and worse.

      Is the Labour government going to say meh, or are they going to apprehend the perpetrators and prosecute them???? Considering the taxpayer funded budget of the SIS and GCSB you have to wonder how hard can it be and are they competent to do the job?

      • SaveNZ 1.1.1

        In addition NZ needs to step up with regards to espionage in NZ… look at the mess the Brits are in, when they are so internally focused they turn a blind eye to espionage in their own country. No wonder there are blatant assassinations going on around the world from foreign powers, as there as there does not seem much interest from governments in protecting citizens anymore.

        Mysterious factory break-in raises suspicions about Chinese visit

        “It was an unusual burglary, in which four or five laptops were stolen from a Scottish renewable energy manufacturer in the dead of a March night in 2011. So innovative was the company that it had been been visited by a 60-strong delegation led by China’s then vice-premier only two months before.

        Nothing else was taken from the company and the crime, while irritating, went unsolved and forgotten – until a few years later pictures began emerging that showed a remarkably similar project manufactured in the world’s most populous country.”

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/10/mysterious-factory-break-in-raises-suspicions-about-chinese-visit

        • tc 1.1.1.1

          I’ve read that China’s acquisition of IP developed elsewhere is estimated as the largest transfer of wealth ever.

          If you look at the R&D costs over time, resources, infrastructure, trial and error you’d skip its a staggering value in today’s currency they’ve bypassed.

          The xian y-20 compared to the us c-17 being one the most blatant as they got sprung using a Canadian based expat to highlight the files/folders from compromised servers for lift and shift to China.

          • SaveNZ 1.1.1.1.1

            @TC, yep and use that money to buy up assets like significant amounts of NZ and OZ…

            While the west politicians are getting selfies and self promoting in magazines and MSM or firing off on Twitter, the Chinese government are to be admired in a way as they steadily and carefully advancing their cause, gathering power and strategic assets, partnerships and soft power…

            Natz can be bought for $100k, how cheap is that?

            Sadly our government in NZ has become greedy and/or naive self promoters hoping for a crust of bread and a pat on the head, as 30 years post Rogernomics our politicians and the general discourse being promoted is that Kiwis are only good at Rugby and a few other sports and incapable of self governing, working or running our own businesses, assets or countries successfully.

            So very easy for the Chinese to step in to help, self govern NZ and their businesses and assets in the face of greed, disinterest and brainwashing of the NZ political elite and MSM.

            We have also given up our security to others in particular the US in real terms and so now at the mercy of others.

            There is a difference between collaboration/friendship and throwing your hands up and leaving it all up to other governments and paper agreements to decide your future and fate and NZ seems to be erring on the lazy second option with no plan B of self management.

          • KJT 1.1.1.1.2

            Don’t blame them actually. Most US patents are not innovation, just blatant privatisation of others ideas. Parenting rounded corners on a cell phone. FFS.
            Rentier capitalism at it’s worse.
            US prosperity begins, by ignoring all previous British property rights.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2

        Is the Labour government going to say meh, or are they going to apprehend the perpetrators and prosecute them?

        All indications are that they’re going to say ‘meh’ so as to keep up Fonterra’s exports. Apparently maintaining NZ for NZers under NZ control comes a distant second to that.

      • greywarshark 1.1.3

        It occurs to me that Ed is continually bringing up foreign problems and ctiticising the USA and China etc. Whereas I want to see this blog continue and look at what is happening here. If Ed steps on enough toes and makes enough wild assertions about the large dominating foreign powers, it takes time away from us. If it incurs enough wrath Ed’s stuff alone could make it a likely target to be taken to court or closed down.

        And groups can get infiltrated; we have wondered who is behind these extra right regulars. There is something driven about them, and the same could apply to those supposedly speaking for the left. I’m just a concerned left-leaning twit myself. I wonder about Ed and others.

        • Ed 1.1.3.1

          I write on many New Zealand issues.
          Inequality
          Poverty
          Dairy farming
          Spying
          Housing
          Socialism
          The environment
          The NZ media
          NZ banking…..

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.3.2

          It occurs to me that Ed is continually bringing up foreign problems and ctiticising the USA and China etc. Whereas I want to see this blog continue and look at what is happening here.

          There are parallels.

          We know that the previous National government pretty much copied social policy from the UK and that they copied charter schools from the US. So, seeing what’s happening to them can give us an idea of the damages that National will do next time they’re in power.

        • mauī 1.1.3.3

          Ed does not need this unwarranted atrack grey. Ed is a driving force behind conversation topics on this blog.

      • Tricledrown 1.1.4

        The National Party should be investigated as their deep ties look dodgy.

    • Fang Zhou 1.2

      “anti-Chinese sons of bitches”

      This is normal for anyone who dares to criticize the new Mao, Chairman Xi. My main reading is Chinese web news sites in NZ. This is mild compared to everyday comments in Chinese language media. ANY opposing view that even slightly is against Community Party views is considered as being traitor. Yet many on this blog say how great China system is! It is not!

      I am called a traitor to China by my own family and Chinese friends in NZ as I am in the process of applying for NZ Citizenship. This is what the Community Party has done to the people in my country.

      • RedLogix 1.2.1

        Thank you for your brave words. The CCCP is indeed a soft tyranny of a nature the western world struggles to understand properly.

        My only small objection is that I do not think a majority of us here are admirers of the Chinese regime and it’s expansionist ambitions. Most of us loath empire wherever it appears.

        • Fang Zhou 1.2.1.1

          Yes, China is an empire, although few Kiwis see that. Mr Xi is step by step becoming Mao. The ‘Thoughts of Chairman Xi’ is now a reality that rivals the ‘Thoughts of Chairman Mao’. Unlimited term as leader. Increased censorship. Imprisonment and ‘re-education’ of Uyghurs. But in China most people support him still. Economically very good.

          Forced abortion when already have one child was common 20 years ago. When I studied nursing, the man on the autopsy table was a criminal, a bullet hole clearly in his forehead. We thought this was right, but it is not. Bribery to get into hospital – yes this is the great Community Party state that so many Kiwis still think is a utopia. There are many things that were and in many parts of China, especially local places, are pure evil. But this was all we knew. Young Chinese people very very different. The future for China will be interesting I think.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1.1

            Bribery to get into hospital – yes this is the great Community Party state that so many Kiwis still think is a utopia.

            How else would you describe private health insurance in NZ? It gets some people in front of the same doctors earlier.

            • Fang Zhou 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Yes that is true, but in China even an emergency, life in danger, in many places you will not even get admitted to hospital. This is very true. And drugs you must pay for. In NZ, I do not have health insurance or my son, yet we get a higher level of care than in China.

              In 2016, I spent 4 months in China. My son had been injured in an accident. His father and I paid for pain relief and antibiotics. NZ not that bad!

          • KJT 1.2.1.1.2

            Yep. We have been colonised by Britain, the USA and looks like, now China.
            Time we were independent!

      • Dennis Frank 1.2.2

        I haven’t noticed commentators here saying “how great China system is!” I’ve seen some (including myself) criticising it. Polarising into a simple binary view of anything is usually too simple-minded – those who do so lose accuracy in their description. Any political system will have pros & cons. I agree that the international community has been too tolerant of the endemic misbehaviour of the regime for far too long.

        I’m reading a recent acquisition: Everything Under The Heavens: How the Past Helps Shape China’s Push for Global Power, which I recommend to anyone interested in the current regime’s foreign policy. See https://www.amazon.com/Everything-Under-Heavens-Chinas-Global/dp/0385353324

        As far as your relations are concerned, it may help to frame things in generic terms – the future for China will require adaption to a common-interest framework. National self-interest therefore must be balanced by acknowledgment of the interests of other nations. In respect of China’s attempt to reassert their regional hegemony, we can expect all other nations affected to align in consensus to oppose such re-emergence of imperialism. A balance of equal and opposite forces is therefore eventually inevitable. Naive expectations of success will be replaced by realism. In the interim, any delusional thinking by decision-makers is dangerous…

        • Fang Zhou 1.2.2.1

          Yes Chinese political system was necessary for our recent decades of rapid growth. We all pulled in the same direction. No serious opposition was allowed. But now it is still the same, yet the need is no longer there.

          You mention my relations, no! Older than me and have never left China, so still have Maos isolationist view of the world.

          The biggest challenges for China in the years ahead are the young people, who travel. And the looming huge problem of Xinjiang. And Xizang.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.3

        Yet many on this blog say how great China system is!

        [citation needed]

        I am called a traitor to China by my own family and Chinese friends in NZ as I am in the process of applying for NZ Citizenship.

        Welcome to being a NZer.

        This is what the Community Party has done to the people in my country.

        The people of China could stop them if they so wished.

      • SaveNZ 1.2.4

        @Fang Zhou – some Kiwis are worried about the Chinese government too, so even if it seems that people might sound anti Chinese be aware most of the time it is directed against the CCP getting a stranglehold into NZ not against Chinese people and also the worry that Chinese residents might be pressured to work for the Chinese government interests even if they didn’t want to on foreign soil, so great might be influence be as our government and industry is asleep at the wheel.

      • Monty 1.2.5

        Hey,

        To be fair to the TS, I have not seen anyone say they want the Chinese system. But they do want a return to authoritarian govt control, which could be interrupted as wanting the Chinese system.

        A small number on the extreme Left want a authoritarian govt that own pretty much everything. (banks, insurance, utilities, Supermarkets, etc) I think but stand to be corrected that someone wrote that if a person invents something or has a innovative idea they shouldn’t own it but it becomes the property of the state and the people.

        Much like what you have in China with the control of central govt over most things and most Chinese corps having some level of govt ownership or control.

        China bans facebook and a number of other social sites and developed its own wechat and weibo that can be monitored.

        Now we see millions of cameras, name and shame in papers and Huge LED screens around the cities highlighting wrong doing of citizens in real time for example j walking and social credit points for citizens.

        https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2157883/drones-facial-recognition-and-social-credit-system-10-ways-china

        One link but the social credit and city surveillance is scary, but it is how an authoritarian govt maintains control.

        Opposing views are not allowed.

        Those that want the govt controlled utopia then also accept they will loose freedoms and free speech as the govt controls the narrative.

        • KJT 1.2.5.1

          I don’t see many on here that want a “Government controlled utopia”. Even the most ardent anti-capitalists still want a democratic Government. Many of the right wingers are open to increased democracy, also.

          Government by us.

          As for the State owning banks and utilities. When it is a real democratic State it is all of us that own them.

          Ownership of patents and innovations very rarely accrues to the innovator. Usually they are acquired by a corporation which uses then for unearned rent for ridiculous lengths of time. Amazons book rights, for example.

          You are confusing Democratic ownership with an authoritarian State. At the moment we have an Authoritarian State controlled by corporate donations and influence. And, I suspect, with considerable evidence, a lot of power exerted covertly by the US, Chinese and British Governments. Often in behalf of their corporations.

      • Fred 1.2.6

        Good comment – in the long term CCP influence over the NZ Chinese community does not bode well for how that community is perceived by the wider population.

    • SPC 1.3

      Two refugees here have been renditioned back to Saudi Arabia – in 2013 and 2014.

      http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2018/10/reminder-saudi-arabia-kidnapped-people.html

    • Exkiwiforces 1.4

      Here’s some interesting information on China and I’m a little concerned at was has happened, but not surprised IRT Professor Brady as the same thing happened to Clive Hamilton when he was trying to get his book published called “The Silent Invasion”.

    • Exkiwiforces 1.5

      Here’s some interesting information on China and I’m a little concerned at was has happened, but not surprised IRT Professor Brady as the same thing happened to Clive Hamilton when he was trying to get his book published called “The Silent Invasion

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-16/are-china-cheap-loans-to-poor-nations-a-debt-trap/10493286”.

  2. Ed 2

    The U.S.A.
    A rogue state.

    America has spent $5.9 trillion on wars in the Middle East and Asia since 2001, a new study says
    The U.S. wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Pakistan have cost American taxpayers $5.9 trillion since they began in 2001.
    The figure reflects the cost across the U.S. federal government since the price of war is not borne by the Defense Department alone.
    The report also finds that more than 480,000 people have died from the wars and more than 244,000 civilians have been killed as a result of fighting. Additionally, another 10 million people have been displaced due to violence.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/14/us-has-spent-5point9-trillion-on-middle-east-asia-wars-since-2001-study.html?__source=sharebar|twitter&par=sharebar

  3. Ed 3

    Interesting angle from Jeffrey Kaye on the killing of Khashoggi.
    Fascinating.

    Khashoggi was ‘the only non-royal Saudi who had the beef on the royals’ intimate dealing with al Qaeda in the lead-up to the 9/11 attacks.’

    The 9/11 Commission’s final report went out of its way to absolve the Saudis of direct culpability in the attacks. “Saudi Arabia has long been considered the primary source of al-Qaeda funding, but we have found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded the organisation,” the report said.

    But there remain strong grounds to doubt the veracity of these findings, and allegations of high-level Saudi complicity in terrorism have not gone away. Even former 9/11 Commissioners have spoken on record about how they believed their entire investigation had been compromised by the White House, accusing the US government of wanting to “cover up” the full story of 9/11.

    Earlier this year, a US lawsuit on behalf of families of the 9/11 victims linking Saudi officials to the 9/11 attacks was cleared to proceed by US District Judge George Daniels in New York.

    “The [Saudi] Ministry of Islamic Affairs in the United States and other parts of the world had government officials who conspired with al-Qaeda to support them and to support the 9/11 hijackers,” said Andrew Maloney, a lawyer for the 9/11 victims’ families.

    “The 9/11 Commission back in 2003 and 2004 either didn’t pursue, didn’t want to pursue, covered up for the Saudis or just never got around to finishing the investigation. That’s where we picked it up, and we’ve collected a lot more information and evidence since then.”

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/north-africa-west-asia/nafeez-ahmed/did-us-and-britain-collude-in-murder-of-jamal-khashoggi

    • Cinny 3.1

      Ed did you catch the live presser from the Saudi’s last night? The story re Khashoggi changes so much.

      He say’s he’s seeking the death penalty for some involved, but does not want to name them.

      It’s a big freaking coverup, Saudis are good at that.

      Cheers for the links above, will have a watch over the weekend. Much appreciated.

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/11/saudi-top-prosecutor-seeks-death-penalty-khashoggi-murder-181115103958916.html

      • soddenleaf 3.1.1

        It’s the facts they’ve agreed too though. That a official signed off on a warrant for K. That they wanted to rendition K. That they targeted K when he sought a marriage licence, thus attacking the ability to legally start a family, nasty.So who paid for the flights. Who told the embassy to stock up on plastic sheets. Sorry but I can’t believe that a they got the go head without serious authority being involved, and that’s before you consider who was most irate and irritated by K. The idea that S.A. will walk away thinking people global don’t now know what they do in their embassies, that we all now sanction by allow those embassies on our soil. And then it gets worse, not only attacking the family of K, his future family, not only renditioning him, or murdering premeditively, but he was a top journalist resident of the USA. Their is serious no way Trump can stop action. So their laughable fake news conference, that only exposes a whole new raft of questions while reinforcing the view that a whitewash was in train, a whitewash protecting a ruthless man. And who could that be, the leprosy of Qatar, the evil in Yeman, and the how dare he get married. If the US does continue to dither, then its even worse, the moral ethical outrage, of the holy land for Islam, coupled to K, coupled to Israel new US embassy… …And then add the explosive that wars mean men don’t come home, mean four wives… …it’s not to hard to see soldiers getting fessup of being fodder, realizing their job actually is to die so their betters can have a extra wife.

        If I were a progressive S.A. leader, I’d end multiple wives, pull out of Yeman, reengage Qatar… get Trump to backtrack on embassy… but all we get is dangerous dithering from Ryad.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2

        It’s a big freaking coverup, Saudis are good at that.

        The corrupt, no matter their country of origin, always think that they are because they think that they’re better, more intelligent than anyone else.

    • RedLogix 3.2

      Good linkies this morning Ed. 😛

  4. Cinny 4

    Did anyone catch the NZ Music Awards last night?

    Upper Hutt Posse, their frontman Dean Hapeta, at the end of his speech called out ‘Free Palestine’ condemned trump and called out government for sending our troops to fight fake wars over oil among other political messages.

    Much respect to them for speaking up.

    • I feel love 4.1

      Dean has never been afraid to speak his mind, “E Tu” & the Dam Native years all righteous stuff. Now await the vitriol coz a brown guy dare speak his truth…

      • Cinny 4.1.1

        Was so awesome to hear his words, felt very proud of him for speaking the truth.

        Miss almost 14 had plenty of questions afterwards (she stayed up late to watch), was happy to answer them.

        Lyrics about reality rather than money and sex, we need more lyrical reality, kudos to all who use a platform to speak up and inform others.

        • gsays 4.1.1.1

          Those names are a blast from the past.
          I loved the first two upper hutt posse albums.
          Cheers student radio.
          Well ahead of its time, preceeding rage against the machine with the fusion of rock, rap and injustice.

          The message was spot on although some stuff was hard to hear through pakeha ears.

          • Cinny 4.1.1.1.1

            This bit G…. “The message was spot on although some stuff was hard to hear through pakeha ears” well said.

    • Crashcart 4.2

      Can you just clarify for me what wars we currently have troops fighting in? Motivation aside I can’t think of any current deployments that involve combat troops.

      • Cinny 4.2.1

        Hey Crashcart,

        Government over the years and decades have sent troops to locations in the middle east to assist the USA lead wars. Which more often than not have one thing in common, oil. Peace isn’t profitable.

        Pretty sure the speech made referenced Afghanistan.

        Wonder if there is a clip of the full speech. The political part is at the end of the speech, will see if I can find later,

        • greywarshark 4.2.1.1

          I think the question was ‘what wars we currently have troops fighting in’?
          I have lost touch too Crashcart. Our Radionz news is full of what is happening in the USA but I don’t think we have any action within that country thank goodness. But elsewhere? What do the military buffs know?

          • McFlock 4.2.1.1.1

            seems to be a vaguely current list.

            Might not include special forces deployments though

          • OnceWasTim 4.2.1.1.2

            @ grey: Just as MoBIE, MSD and others in gubbamint are concerned , AND in the interests of ‘open gubbamint’ (going forward), [Maybe, oneday lprent could give us his impressions and experiences on a thread we could call ‘technophobia’]
            Maybe the NZDF might care to publish their activities (across the 3 – almy, navvie and ear force), and with all due deference (to ‘the 5’) on a website.

            With a cuzzie that once served in ‘peace keeping’ in the Sinai, and Singapore, and in the spooks for a quite a while thereafter till the alcopops and the liver got the better of him, I’ve also lost track
            It does seem reasonable though that they could keep all the plebs appraised of their activities (all within the bounds of keeping shit secret in our Neshnool interest)
            I’ve lost touch too both @ Crashcart and @Grey[non]warshark – not that I ever wanted to have such ‘touch’ in the first place.
            I did appreciate however being told not to go near a Bainimarama’s Fiji a decade ago – based on the passport I held at the time. As it happens ,it now makes me even more cynical about various ‘competencies’ in our public service – the silos, the politicisation, the egos, the incompetencies, the agendas, the conflicted interests ……

            • greywarshark 4.2.1.1.2.1

              Yes, going off at a tangent here, again, I thought about our police and how they wouldn’t venture into Pike mine at the beginning and now they are playing it safe again. And how much grief and extra cost that has caused. And they wouldn’t provide backup when trained miners wanted to make a series of reccies.

              Thinks, would the Thai cave success be equalled if it happened here? Of course it isn’t the same as Pike because there may be a case to be heard in Court. That would have eaten a large part of the police and justice budget allocation. I wonder if the departments were under instruction to curb their enthusiasm?

              • OnceWasTim

                /Agreed.
                (At the time, and probably/possibly still), completely the wrong agency to have been leading any rescue effort. Peter Cowan – nice enough bloke and all that, and a good cop, but in that situation, out of his depth and encumbered with the wrong sort of mission.

                • KJT

                  I think the decision not to go ahead with attempting a rescue of miners who were almost certainly dead, risking a lot more deaths, was the correct one.
                  I doubt that the police made the decision without expert advice.

                  Talking to one of the mine rescuers afterwards. He said the police probably saved his life, restraining them from rushing in.

                  Certainly it is unfair to judge the person who had to make that sort of decision in the moment, with the information available at the time, using information they didn’t have.

                  The picture of men, waiting for a rescue that didn’t come, is a powerful one. But the ones in charge had to weigh up the real risk to rescuers, against the, slight, possibility of survivors.

                  Not a decision I would like to have to make. Though I am aware it may happen.

      • Cinny 4.2.2

        Link…

        https://www.threenow.co.nz/shows/2018-vodafone-new-zealand-music-awards/2018-vodafone-new-zealand-music-awards/S1825-116/M26539-595

        Political part of the speech at 1:43.50 – 1:45.10

        Text below…

        “Free Palestine!

        And where’s that PM even if it was a fake acting one up here. I’ve got some words for you.

        All of our armed forces and military that have been fighting in these fake wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for oil, for USA imperialism; get out of there!

        What you need to be doing is going to Palestine to fight against the racist terrorism of the Israeli State, that’s where all of our fighting energy needs to be.

        And also, even more, death to the Mexican USA border and defend that caravan of indigenous people seeking refugee status at the United Snakes of America kkk.

        They are seeking refuge because their countries have been wrecked by that colonial power known as the USA.

        Death to all oppressors.”

        • Cinny 4.2.2.1

          Oh I must add when he refers to the PM as a fake one acting, that’s the lady from Jono & Ben who impersonates Jacinda.

          Our Jacinda has willingly been involved in a few very good skits with her, including one last night on Jono & Ben.

          Anyways she presented an award at the NZMA last night dressed up as Jacinda 🙂

          It’s wasn’t a dig at our PM being fake.

          Felt I needed to add that context, for those who didn’t see the full NZ Music Awards show last night.

      • Wayne 4.2.3

        The largest current deployment by far is the training team in Iraq (over 150). Just renewed by the current govt for another 12 months.
        All about training Iraqi forces to defeat ISIS.
        If you think ISIS should not be opposed (with military force) well that’s your view. But obviously Jacinda et al do not share that view.

        • Pat 4.2.3.1

          “If you think ISIS should not be opposed (with military force) well that’s your view. But obviously Jacinda et al do not share that view.”

          Importantly, what is the majority of Kiwis view…..or is that of no consequence?

          • Wayne 4.2.3.1.1

            I am pretty sure the majority of New Zealanders would think ISIS has to be militarily opposed and that NZ should, at least to some extent, be part of the international coalition. The training team was probably the right level of commitment. There were polls on thiols at the time of the initial deployment when John Key was PM which showed clear support.

            I was actually surprised that Jacinda and the Cabinet renewed the mandate for another 12 months. After all, ISIS has largely been defeated in Iraq. So presumably it was about NZ showing our partners that we are a reliable partner, notwithstanding the change of government.

            Dean Hapeta at the Music awards would well have represented the Green Party view (and the left of Labour) but it is a minority view.

            • Pat 4.2.3.1.1.1

              “I am pretty sure the majority of New Zealanders would think ISIS has to be militarily opposed and that NZ should, at least to some extent, be part of the international coalition. ”

              And that is based on what? Polling, focus group, personal preference?

              https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/09/17/240869/nzs-mission-creep-in-iraq-creeps-on

              “It was a decision that surprised Victoria University professor of strategic studies Robert Ayson, who believed there was good reason for a withdrawal from Iraq, given Isis was “no longer the battleground force it once was”.

              “You need a compelling reason in Iraq to stay, and I’m not entirely sure that is there, so I think that now would have been a time to say, ‘Right, we’ve done what we said we were there to do’.”

              • Wayne

                Pat,

                My recollection is at the time of the initial deployment the public polls were clearly in favour.

                As for the current extension, I essentially said what Dr Ayson said. But that is not the only consideration for the extension of the deployment. NZ does not like to be the first out of an international coalition, and that is pretty much what we would have been.

                I suspect the Govt thought the deployment was sufficiently Ok that the extension would not to cause any significant local reaction. And they were right. It didn’t.

                • Pat

                  I may be doing you a disservice but I suspect your claim that it was an acceptance of the majority view that was the deciding factor in the deployment decision was more a case of wishful thinking rather than any knowledge of such.

                • KJT

                  Anything to do with the, almost, total lack of information on troop deployments from our news media.

                  So much so, that we learn about them first through the Ozzie papers.

                  And the constant propaganda about big bad Iraq. Which was OK until they threatened the petrodollar. Like Libya. And indeed, Iran’s Government in the 50’s. Too Democratic for the Western powers, replaced by the Shar, and Savak.

                • Tricledrown

                  IsIs could re-emerge any time, last time the US pulled back that’s when they got a foot hold.

        • One Two 4.2.3.2

          I doubt even you still believe the fable which is , ISIS…

        • Ed 4.2.3.3

          You realise the US funded ISIS in Syria?

          • Tricledrown 4.2.3.3.1

            To begin with they also funded the mujahadeen.
            This was to try and save putting soldiers on the ground.
            The purpose to overthrow despot rigimes in both cases costly mistakes!

  5. SaveNZ 5

    Reminds me of Auckland (and maybe Christchurch)

    “Vanity projects and kamikaze loggias: Tbilisi’s architectural disaster
    The centre of the Georgian capital has long been the plaything of outsize egos – but can its architecture biennial inspire useful debate about the city’s future?

    Joseph Alexander Smith, a Briton who has lived in Tbilisi for the last six years, was driven by what he witnessed to stand for local election last year on a platform of environmental activism, campaigning against chronic traffic problems, pollution and the unabated development that has blighted much of the city. “We have lost one of the city’s oldest streets, Mirza Shafi,” he says, “and now developers are hand-in-glove with politicians, intent on destroying everything that is left. Everyone has a right to air, not just the right to breath clean air, but to look out of their window and not be confronted by the concrete wall of a new illegal building.”

    Is this going to be Phil Goff, John Key, Brownlee’s fate…. exile with criminal charges for corruption and in NZ case, gross stupidity as well???

    “Saakashvili behaved like a king, just picking his favourites with no competition or discussion,” says Zhvania. “He dismissed any opposition voices as retrogrades, standing in the way of modernisation.”

    The former president may now be living in exile in the Netherlands, wanted on multiple criminal charges back home, but his physical legacy is still very much felt – and others have eagerly picked up where he left off.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/nov/15/vanity-projects-and-kamikaze-loggias-tbilisi-architectural-disaster

    • Pat 5.1

      Is there a connection with Chris Trotters latests musing?

      https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2018/11/communication-breakdown.html

      “Why? Because the council officials understood that a councillor’s reputation was built upon his or her ability to get things done for the people who voted them into office. Repeated failure to fix their problems would very soon lead to gripes about Councillor So-and-So being “useless”. The slightest whisper that such an opinion was abroad in the electorate would have the impugned councillor knocking very loudly on the door of the Town Clerk, demanding to know what the hell was going on. That’s why action almost always followed.”

      • SaveNZ 5.1.1

        +1 Pat & agree with Chris Trotter

        “Councillors are reduced to a browbeaten collection of rubber-stampers: prey to private sector contractors, condescending legal advisers, and over-mighty CEOs. The final indignity being that, having signed up to the Councillors’ Code of Conduct, these poor souls are forbidden from speaking out angrily, or publicly, about their powerlessness.”

        I think in Phil Goff’s case, he is being used by the CEO and private sector to be a front man on the attack against local government and democracy. How else do you fathom taking off 2 elected councillors from Auckland Transport (that gets the lions share of ratepayers rates, but has a poor and dismal service record)?

        • Pat 5.1.1.1

          A continuation of the observation that the vast majority of voices are increasingly ignored in western democracies…..and we wonder why ‘populism’ gains currency.

          The establishment brings it upon itself and only they can solve it.

          • Tricledrown 5.1.1.1.1

            When less than 50% of voters bother to vote this happens.
            Then people moan endlessly but go out and drum up support for representation on council no!
            You get what you don’t vote for the status quo!

        • OnceWasTim 5.1.1.2

          Skippy’s public service reform should extend to local bodies.
          Never was that being ‘forbidden from speaking out’ about what is best described as muppetry more evident in Wellington recently in a Simon Wolf – Lavery exchange.
          It’s a case of ‘officials’ throwing elected representatives ‘under a bus’ if anything.
          And even when those ‘officials’ are legally in the wrong, they’re apt to push things to the limit, often in the knowledge that people don’t have the resources to face them off.

  6. WeTheBleeple 6

    On a lighter note:

    A Tui in my street has learned the sound of a computer booting up.

    It has confused several of us thinking our machines are turning themselves on, or have been hacked, or….

    It’s a juvenile Tui sitting on a powerpole, laughing at us the little blighter…

    • Dv 6.1

      When they learn the telephone ring it is a real pain.

      • Andre 6.1.1

        Someone near me must get a hell of a lot of texts. There’s at least of couple of tuis doing the Samsung default alert, and a few years ago they were doing the Nokia alert.

  7. SaveNZ 7

    Looks like service is already declining, tired of public services being cut or not funded appropriately for population and tourist growth that the government is so keen on, while our taxes are used to further private profits that are publicly funded!

    Urgent answers needed after rescue helicopter unavailable

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1811/S00167/urgent-answers-needed-after-rescue-helicopter-unavailable.htm

    • greywarshark 7.1

      How come these communicators with the public can lie and never get called out on it? They need to be confronted, their organisation which is probably contracted to do government work, at their profit, should be exposed and tarred and feathered or made to walk through the streets with their trousers down looking stupid.

  8. esoteric pineapples 8

    Brazilian military now taking over all the major roles in the Brazilian government. The US has been backing the coup with US, European and Brazilian corporates benefiting.

    “I think what we are seeing is a massive transfer of Brazil’s natural resources to the north right now. Brazil is one of the richest countries in the world in terms of natural resources.Its petroleum, its minerals, its gold, its fresh water – they are talking about privatising the world’s largest acquifier to Coca Cola right now.”

    • SaveNZ 8.1

      How shameful “privatising the world’s largest acquifier to Coca Cola right now’

      pity Jacinda is not using her status to question the fairness of bad deals and public asset transfer to private business, rather than actually promoting the practise of ‘FREE trade’ around the world. How bout they rebrand to FREEBIE trade agreements, it would be kinder and more honest.

      Tellingly even with the excitement when apparently Mike Pence wanted to sit next to Arden, did she use the moment to discuss her supposedly nuclear free moment of climate change or urge US to uphold the Paris agreement and help the environment, nope instead it is reported that she focused on unsuccessfully pressing New Zealand’s case for an exemption on US tariffs on steel and aluminium which are mostly foreign owned multinational companies.

      So who would even benefit from the lift of US tariffs on steel and aluminium – well mostly the profits of overseas firms.

      Who owns NZ steel, well BHP, formerly known as BHP Billiton, is the trading entity of BHP Billiton Limited and BHP Billiton plc, an Anglo-Australian multinational mining, metals and petroleum dual-listed public company headquartered in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia and owns significant amounts of the formally known New Zealand Steel.

      The raw material for NZ steel is ironsand which is disappearing fast around the world and can not be replaced and has virtually zero studies on the long term effects on the eco systems.

      The future of sand mining in NZ
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/104065329/the-future-of-sand-mining-in-nz

      Who owns NZ Aluminimum, NZAS is 79.36 per cent owned by Pacific Aluminium which in turn is owned by Rio Tinto Group an Anglo-Australian multinational and one of the world’s largest metals and mining corporations and 20.64 per cent owned by Japan’s Sumitomo Chemical Company.

      So when our politicians have the ear of world leaders are they really thinking of the people of NZ or international peace and well being and climate change and environmental issues, or just promoting the short term profiteering of multinational big business???

      It seems clear to me where Labour’s focus is, either intentionally or unintentionally!

    • greywarshark 8.2

      OMG. The face behind the Trump variety performance.

  9. adam 9

    Collective bargaining works! Funny we all happy when sports people do it – but outside of a few select sectors how many people are organised collectively?

    http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-15/aflw-player-wages-to-rise-finals-prize-money-introduced

    I’d add this is the third pay raise over three years, each year these players are getting substantially more.

  10. adam 10

    In more union news.

    Big ups to the truckers in Iran. This is the second round of strikes and after the government arrested some of these same protestors – it takes real guts (unlike fake ponytail pulling guts) to carry on a strike in the face of a government used to suppressing working people.

    https://libcom.org/news/iww-statement-solidarity-striking-workers-iran-14112018

  11. Andre 11

    Maine has its first taste of ranked choice voting for US House seats. On election night, the incumbent Repug won a plurality of first choice votes, but second (and maybe third) choices tipped it to the Dem. So naturally the loser Repug is suing.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics/democrats-maine-house-ranked-choice-jared-golden/index.html

    Ranked choice is slowly spreading to other states as well. So despite all the crap around gerrymandering, voter suppression and loads of other noxious anti-democracy actions, there are still some pockets of progress towards better democracy in the US.

    https://thinkprogress.org/utah-cities-ranked-choice-pilot-program-2fec6e710064/

  12. Yep. There, here, and everywhere.

    When it was revealed on Wednesday morning that the mysterious figure was Steve Bannon, few were surprised. The invitation was a predictably out-of-touch move by an institution that was once renowned for its impactful and passionate debates but is now more commonly visited by professional footballers, comedians on publicity tours and extremists looking for establishment credentials.

    In his reasoning for the invite, the president of the union, Stephen Horvath, presented the standard, free-speech argument that “it is only through listening to the opinions of others that we can fully understand those opinions”. The idea being that a group of university students would be able to hold fascism to account through a one-hour debate on a Friday afternoon.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/15/steve-bannon-oxford-union

  13. SaveNZ 13

    “Chinese speaking buyers offered first dibs on ‘top secret’ luxury apartment planned for Auckland

    A “top secret” 24-storey luxury apartment tower planned for Auckland’s North Harbour has been snapped up by exclusive buyers months before the public gets a look in.

    The 72.5 metre apartment planned for Kaipiho Lane, Albany will feature more than 280 apartments, 11 lifts, a helicopter landing pad, residents’ cinema, swimming pool, clubhouse, ballroom, 24 hour concierge and robotic valet parking.

    A website marketing the development in Chinese, http://www.kaipiho.co.nz, said the apartments “caused a subscription frenzy” when they were promoted on Chinese social media app WeChat.:

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/11/16/investigation-into-sabotage-of-academics-car-must-finally-start-demanding-answers-about-chinese-influence-in-nz/

    P>S> clearly the government and councils measures to curb the housing shortages futile as seen in this example, but actually creating more poverty for Kiwis who end up subsidising the roads, congestion, Leaks, public transport, pollution etc that all these new developments for speculators who don’t even live here, are generating.

    Chinese people want to get their money out of China and into gold bricks before their currency devalues or worse they take down the banks with lending, Kiwi housing investments should not be part of the solution of cash China 1.5 billion people, because our people and environment is the casualty of poor risk planning as is more exposure ‘If China Sneezes Will the Rest of the World Catch a Cold”.

    • greywarshark 13.1

      And there aren’t even jobs for car valets. Perhaps someone will be able to hack their garage systems and send cars to be parked outside, or go to be serviced or such like. Just annoying glitches. We have plenty of those in NZ and would love to share them around.

    • Fang Zhou 13.2

      I think you do not understand that whether you like it or not, NZ needs Chinese capital to flow in to correct balance of payments and keep Kiwi dollar high. Most Chinese property owners are resident in NZ, at least most of the time. We are a positive contribution to NZ, yet you paint us as fleeing China before the currency collapses. Maybe you should learn more about China and spend an extended period there before you preach the collapse of the Yuan.

      • Muttonbird 13.2.1

        Most Kiwis are concerned about the corruption which comes along with that Chinese capital.

        • Fang Zhou 13.2.1.1

          Yes, corruption is sadly still normal in China, and at all levels. However, the younger Chinese not so much. But you seem to assume that the capital coming in to NZ is from corruption. This is, to me, if that is your thinking, not only wrong but racist wrong.

          Many Chinese people are extremely wealthy not from corruption, but from riding the rapid growth of China economy. Look at Jack Ma, now one of the wealthiest men in the world. Not from corruption, but from business. There are 1.4 billion Chinese in China. 1 in 25 people in the world live within China’s borders. There are many many little Mr Ma’s, not wealthy from corruption but from hard work and smart work. Many of these want a better life in NZ, and many share their time between China and NZ, but invest in NZ and run business in China. This is good for NZ.

          Please do not think all Chinese rich people are corrupt. They are not.

          • SaveNZ 13.2.1.1.1

            @Fang Zhou,

            “Please do not think all Chinese rich people are corrupt. They are not.”

            I don’t think all Chinese are corrupt, what is wrong with NZ is our NZ immigration policy is so pathetic and the criteria is not robust that our government has been bringing in all types of migrants or migrant workers who are corrupt, dishonest and liars, and they when they find out that they are all of that, they just let them stay here… all the while when we could have a robust policy to attract the best migrants here who could make a greater difference…

            I don’t blame the Chinese, because it is not the Chinese fault that NZ government is stupid and does not discriminate against honest and dishonest people who come to NZ to live, work or study.

            Should be, commit a crime in NZ, lie on your immigration forms or are found guilty of corruption and you are straight out the door and never to be allowed back into NZ whether you are Chinese, Korean, English, EU, Indian, or Russian or what have you. Not a ethnic based policy but a moral one.

            Due to the isolation of NZ and our lack of robust immigration measures we do seem to attract our fair share of criminals trying to hide out here, or commit identity theft.

          • Muttonbird 13.2.1.1.2

            I didn’t say ‘the capital coming into NZ is from corruption’. I said corruption comes with the capital.

            The other thing about Chinese wealth is the conditions under which it has been generated. Scant regard for human rights, political rights, worker rights, justice, and the environment has been the foundation upon which the Chinese capitalist economy has grown at such a fast pace.

            You might have realised you are commenting on a forum which is inspired by the labour movement and so worker rights, and recently the environment, are high on most commenters’ list of priorities. I doubt whether a forum like The Standard would exist for very long in China and so when I look at the huge increase in wealth in that country I see it as tainted by injustice. You won’t find the same concerns on NZ blogs from the other side of the political divide.

            Now, you might say it is the West’s consumerism which has partially funded the explosion of wealth in China and you would be right. I buy ‘made in China’ – it is difficult to not – so I too am guilty in a sense.

            There will no doubt be some very good people emigrating to New Zealand but there will be a significant trail of corruption also and that is why we must ask questions, review settings, and be watchful.

            • Fang Zhou 13.2.1.1.2.1

              You are right: The Standard (or any non-government blog) would not last very long in China.

              And yes, I do realise I am commentating on a forum inspired by the labour movement. I also support that, but that does not mean blindly! A wrong by a socialist is just as bad as a wrong by a capitalist. Maybe worse, as the capitalist does not pretend what their motivation is.

              The corruption I would disagree. In my experience, most Chinese coming here are reasonably young and well educated. They have experienced corruption throughout their life and do not like it. The money, including the big money that comes with them, is I think untouched.

              Of more concern to NZ should be not the Chinese money coming to NZ, but rather when Kiwi engage in big business in China. It is inconceivable to me that Kiwirail or Fonterra are untouched by this. To do business in China at that level, well, I will not say the rest but you I am sure understand.

              The other area of great concern to NZ should be immigration. I would suggest that almost EVERY Chinese that immigrates has been a party to corruption during the immigration process.

      • Ad 13.2.2

        I totally welcome you.

        Plenty on the left still mistrust Chinese – even after Helen Clark’s apology for decades of racism.

        I don’t trust the Chinese government.

        But then we’ve never examined US spying here, or British.

        We’re a different people since the 1970s and thank God for that.

      • SaveNZ 13.2.3

        @Fang Zhou. It’s the market driven flow of capital and being at the mercy of that capital and bad foreign decisions (ak BNZ floating and having to bail them out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_New_Zealand) that has caused the biggest crashes and poverty in NZ..

        the Chinese situation will be exactly the same but worse as NZ has created too much dependancy on both Chinese investment and US security decisions.

        Sadly the dominant discourse in NZ is neoliberalism and the pursuit of money, making our government decisions short term, lazy and stupid and allowed too much dependancy on other countries.

        I think NZ and China should be friends but NZ becoming dependant on them for investment is a complete mistake.

        As for high dollar in NZ, causes people living and working here huge problems, much higher mortgages and lending, less money from exports. Cheaper imports.

      • Ed1 13.2.4

        “I think you do not understand that whether you like it or not, NZ needs Chinese capital to flow in to correct balance of payments and keep Kiwi dollar high. ”

        I don’t know why you should think that. Even if it has been true in specific circumstances at one time, I do not see any need to favour Chinese capital over other capital, but it is also a destructive goal to set long term – if we need capital from immigrants, what does that tell you about wealth inequality within our country – and why wold an immigrant was to enter a country that requires immigrants to purchase capital assets to survive?

        Far better that we fix some of the inequalities that currently plague us, that we develop domestic-owned enterprises to force competition on foreign owned companies (banks may be a good start), and recognise that we need to look after our population and leave them a country worth living, working and staying in – regardless of where they come from.

        • Fang Zhou 13.2.4.1

          Sorry my bad explaining I think. No, should not favour Chinese capital over capital from elsewhere, but NZ needs capital inflow, regardless of where it comes from. Chinese invest heavily in NZ, certainly compared to many other immigrant groups. And yes, that can push up property prices but also many many Chinese build houses and buy businesses, and that provides work and increases the housing pool. And GST paid and so on.

          Chinese, and others, wish to enter NZ as it is a better life here. Despite what many seem to think, the standard of living is about the same for the average person, but quality of life here is much higher.

          Yes, I agree with you regarding NZ owned enterprises, looking after the NZ population. Do you not think though that I, coming here and, when I first arrived, buying a business was not also indirectly looking after the NZ population? I paid taxes, employed two part-timers.

          It is not that I disagree with you, but ‘how’. Many immigrants just get on with it. Work long hours and invest in the next generation. Kiwi people work hard, but seem to prefer to be employees rather than take risks. Immigrants often have no choice but to risk everything (we did that by coming here!). So we invest, we buy businesses, we try harder. I know that is a generalisation, but that is my experience.

          • Rapunzel 13.2.4.1.1

            It’s interesting you object to a generalisation by making a generalisation about Kiwis preferring to be employees – none of our family are and are in a quite wide set of infrastructure and construction businesses. Years of long hard earned reputation and resilience has meant we have survived in the face of being undercut on prices and lower standards, some have not. That’s not some prejudiced “opinion”, it’s based on factual events and is something that is sad when it happen. Something NZ should be able to work for as it did historically is to uplift the conditions and prospects of NZers not have that regress by being damned into working longer hours or under conditions that are any longer than what is necessary to get the work done and get it done right and for a fair price.

          • KJT 13.2.4.1.2

            Immigrants have seed capital. Being the more wealthy in China.

            Kiwi’s do not. After decades of high living costs and low wages.

            Being an employee is not a choice.

      • KJT 13.2.5

        Agree that many Chinese people are not their Government.

        However our dollar is too high. One of the reasons for China’s recent economic ascendancy, is their Government deliberately keeps their currency low, encouraging exports and discouraging imports, into China.

        I don’t think pushing house prices up beyound the reach of locals is a positive contribution to New Zealand. And it is USA’ians, British and South Africans, as well as Chinese. Any more than the British wealthy in, Spain hogging all the coastal real estate.

    • mary_a 13.3

      Pardon my ignorance, but Robotic valet parking? WTF?

      • Monty 13.3.1

        It is very common in cities with limited space you can store large numbers of cars within a small space.

        Effectively you pull into garage onto a parking pad, hop out and the system lifts then moves the pad to a vertical storage space.

        There is NOT little robots running around parking cars.

        • mary_a 13.3.1.1

          @ Monty, many thanks for that info. I have never heard the term “Robotic Parking” before, so as a result, my decrepit old brain went into overdrive (no pun intended) 🙂

    • SPC 13.4

      Chinese property investment abroad is a diversification, risk managemrnt, as the domestic market may be in slow down (over supply).

      The current or future value of the yuan would have little to do with it.

      The development you mention, use of land for property to people not currently residents, shows what the governments relaxation of the its new rules for foreign purchase leads to.

      • David Mac 13.4.1

        I think the Chinese preference to invest in NZ real estate is that here you own the dirt.

        All Chinese land is owned by everyone, it can only be leased.

        We can leave our NZ properties to our children, in China it can be left for the duration of a lease but thereafter it resorts to state ownership and Mr Xi decides if continued occupation is desirable.

    • Monty 13.5

      Having lived in Shanghai and now HKG for over 4 years now. Those type of complexes are common. The developers add these things to attract buyers its like an apartment arms race.

      It is good and very convenient for the people living there.

      The one I lived in Shanghai had all of that plus a super market, 10 underground tennis courts, couple B ball courts, pools training and resort style, Gym, Spa, Dance and Yoga studios.

      The robotic parking was humorous as at least a couple people per week got caught and forgot to get out of the car and got stuck. (mainly their own fault wechatting and not being aware of the surroundings)

  14. indiana 14

    I’m expecting the mic to be ripped out of Audrey’s hand any minute now….

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12160871

  15. Macro 15

    A week before Thanksgiving, members of the same tribe who helped the pilgrims survive 400 years ago stood before the nation’s Capitol Building. But instead of celebrating, they spoke out against the Trump administration’s decision to take their reservation away.
    https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/news/give-back-our-reservation-mashpee-wampanoag-and-allies-march-on-the-capitol-O2aeJIbIHkyFyrSwyU_WEw/

    • adam 15.1

      This is the precursor to selling of great wads of federal land. Or if your cynical, land not covered by a treaty from the people they stole it off.

      Because if you an indigenous American you ain’t worth a damn thing to white settler thinking.

  16. Ad 16

    Bernie Sanders took on Amazon for higher minimum wages, and won handsomely.

    Now he’s taking on Walmart.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-walmart-minimum-wage_us_5bedc525e4b0443db862a5a8

    God it would be great to have an MP like this in New Zealand naming and shaming the big low-wage companies.

  17. Jimmy 17

    What about the big health and safety issue of onions on my sausage at Bunnings?
    It is amusing when you hear it at first, but you cant deny they are taking safety seriously. Pity Pike river mine management was not as safety conscious as we may not have lost 29 people.

    • Exkiwiforces 17.1

      Because some muppet over here in Oz, slip on some BBQ onions with his sausage sanger at Bunnings in NSW or Vic and a filed a WHS complaint. This muppet may’ve even got a payout with WHS the complaint? Just like some of the muppets you slip on fruit/ veggies aisle or at the drinks aisle and try in sue the company for a few quid in the process.

    • McFlock 17.2

      I love that it’s the same company that refused to have a defibrillator onsite. Maybe they learned from the rucus that caused…

      • Jimmy 17.2.1

        I didn’t know that. Do they have them on site now? They bloody should do.

        • McFlock 17.2.1.1

          Oh yeah – one of those things that caused so much outrage they u-turned in days.

          Seems to be the corporate disease of “if it might mean work for head office, don’t do it”. Hence a memo about the order in which onions are put on sausages might absolve corporate from responsibility.

          They could just sweep the spilled food up if the seagulls don’t take it, but whatevs

  18. greywarshark 18

    What about onions on saus Can you pop a link up so we can have some trivia to lighten our lives?

  19. Exkiwiforces 19

    I see the ADF is purchasing a Squadron’s worth 12- 16 of the Armed version of the General Atom Reaper UAV’s this mornings Oz paper. There was talk of buying these back in 2014 and confirmed in the 2016 Defence White Paper with the impression it at purchase to buy in the early 2020’s, so it makes me wonder why the sudden purchase of these units now?

    • McFlock 19.1

      playing to the base. And aren’t they also getting F35s? Probably after something that works to go with that, lol

  20. Morrissey 20

    A New Zealand actor reports, in a tone of high seriousness,
    that Israelis see themselves as “an underdog.”

    RNZ National, Wednesday 14 November 2018

    We’ve dealt before with the contemptible phenomenon of glib and ignorant theatre “luvvies” sounding off about things they lack the competence to comment on. There was the pretentious “theatre-maker” Stella Duffy [1], there was the “sooooo truthful” Tandi Wright [2] and of course who could ever forget the epically pompous stand-up comedian Andrew Clay? [3]

    Now, I must report sadly, I have identified another talkative but shallow member of this sorority of the second-rate, this club of the clueless, this brotherhood of the bewildered, this guild of the giddy and guileless, this [That’s enough epithets.—J.A. Napes]. About 2:30 p.m. on Wednesday, as I steered the Breenmobile through the suburban dreamscapes of the North Shore, I chanced upon the actor Tim Balme being interviewed by that great gorgeous emptiness Jesse Mulligan. Amongst other things, Balme spoke about his play The Ballad of Jimmy Costello, which is based on the George Wilder story. He mentioned that he had performed it in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Speaking slowly and with as much gravitas as he could summon, Balme stated that Israeli audiences “loved it” because “it’s a play about an underdog, and Israel is a nation that considers itself an underdog.”

    Israel “an underdog.” A nation that “considers itself an underdog.”

    ???????!!??!?!?

    The absurdity, indeed the obscenity, of that propaganda seemed to be lost on Tim Balme, and of course it was lost on Jesse Mulligan.

    The decline of RNZ National continues.

    [1] /open-mike-03102015-2/#comment-1077820

    [2] /open-mike-28082015/#comment-1063760

    [3] /open-mike-04122013/#comment-738941

    • Jenny 20.1

      “…. Israel is a nation that considers itself an underdog.”

      When the privileged and powerful start making out, that they are the victim, everyone else is in danger.

      The fascist rulers of Germany made big play of Germans being the underdog prior to WWII.

      The White Minority government of South Africa also played the victim card.

      And Trump also plays the, hard done by, victim card in appealing to his base.

      All great lies have some truth, Germans suffered the unfairness of the reparations forced on them at the end of the First World War. When it was the German soldiery and sailors who mutinied that brought that brutal imperial conflict to an end.

      The Boers painted themselves the victims of British imperialism.

      And Trump’s supporters feel squeezed by the ‘elites’ (even though Trump is one of them).

      And the present day Zionist rulers of the state of Israel use the excuse of the Holocaust inflicted on European Jews, by Germany, to carry out almost similar levels of repression and murder and dispossession against the Palestinian people.

      • In Vino 20.1.1

        Jenny, you may have confused Russia with Germany regarding the end of World War 1?
        The collapse/rebellion in Germany was mainly civilian, not military. Some sailors joined a dockworkers’ rebellion, but by and large the German military forces, while being forced onto the retreat, were intact, not defeated, and still in French/Belgian territory.
        This is why they later believed that they had been stabbed in the back, which helped Hitler.

    • Bewildered 20.2

      More moronic comments from the mozz, of course Israel are the under dog. I do dispair with mozzies lack of cognitive reasoning making discourse pointless.

  21. eco maori 21

    Kia ora Nation Simon & Emma The billion tree planting program from our Coalition Government is a good start but we need to invest more into climate change mitigation.
    trump is a puppet his backers oil barons don’t want China’s manufacturing muscle to push oil into our history books as they will lose there control of the people on earth.
    It was China that pushed the price of Solar down to a price that’s lower than thermal energy that is produced by coal and oil. China & Elon will push the petrol car into our history books and make energy democratic people producing there own power.
    Ka kite ano. .

  22. eco maori 22

    You see OUR Freedom and democracy is a illusion they keep most peoples reality in a big square box that the wealthy control the people on Mother Earth’s reality

  23. eco maori 23

    Kia ora Newshub back with the moko’s lost track of time lets hope the The All Blacks test goes our way . The Black ferns Kia Kaha It’s awesome that the wahine World Cup is being hosted by Aotearoa I’m sure we will be good honest hoste . Ka pai to the young foot ball ferns .Looks like all the stories are about Jacinda trip overseas meeting other heads of state I will eaz on giving my of these people for the time being. Mike I read a story in Stuff on the reason why OUR weather is so variable at the minute after a long story the conclusion was human caused climate changes are the main causes
    Ka Kite ano

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