Open mike 16/05/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 16th, 2016 - 90 comments
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90 comments on “Open mike 16/05/2016”

  1. Paul 1

    This cartoon by Sharon Murdoch is brilliant and sums up the government’s attitude to New Zealand and the super rich.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CicjGnrU4AAp7t9.jpg:large

  2. Paul 2

    John Key’s New Zealand.
    People living in cars, garages, in cold mouldy houses and on the street.
    Children go to school without food.
    Our suicide rates, imprisonment rates, domestic abuse rates, obesity and levels of inequality soars.
    Unemployment levels rise.
    Debt levels keep climbing.
    Housing both owned and rented becomes unaffordable to more and more people.

    Meanwhile our corrupt and venal ruling class, led by an ex banker Key, takes the side of the global uber rich against the interests of NZ citizens.

    What an ugly, selfish and cruel place we have become.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/303946/auckland-housing-'we've-lost-the-plot

    • b waghorn 2.1

      According to key on henry the cause of people living in cars is because we aren’t hard enough on moving people out of housing nz houses.

      • weka 2.1.1

        Ah, the merry go round approach. They’re using it for benefits and jobs so why not housing?

      • Paul 2.2.1

        A cynical response.
        What a repulsive man.

      • Ffloyd 2.2.2

        I don’t think Winz has Security guards at the door to keep people with weapons out. More likely the people trying to access all this HELP that Mr Key is confident that Winz is just waiting there to immediately assist. He would be “very surprised”!!! if Winz didn’t do this. I would be BLOODY AMAZED and SHOCKED! if they DID.

    • John shears 2.3

      @Paul, Ugly Selfish & Cruel sums it up . I am reminded of NZ in the days of John A Lee as described in ‘Children of the Poor’ sad and disgusting.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.4

      The Salvation Army and the Mangere Budgeting Service say the government can’t continue to ignore the growing numbers of people forced to live in cars, shipping containers and garages.

      Of course it can. National have been ignoring poverty for decades now and haven’t lost a wink of sleep over it.

      “People are sort of halving their garage and having one family on one side of the garage, and another family on the other. These are the sorts of situations that are now emerging in this housing crisis,” he said.

      And probably charging a pretty penny for it as well.

      Speaking to Morning Report today, Prime Minister John Key said it was not acceptable that people were living in cars or under bridges.

      Mr Key said people in those circumstances should seek help from Work and Income.

      He said he would be amazed if the agency left people living in cars, particularly if children were involved.

      Says all the right words while putting in place policies that prevent that from actually happening.

      Mr Key said the government was doing what it could to help people in housing difficulty…

      Yeah, like kicking people off of benefits for no reason whatsoever.

      Mr Key said the government’s approach, including encouraging community groups to provide housing, would help.

      Well, I suppose that it will help a few rich people get richer. Won’t help the people actually in trouble though.

  3. Sirenia 3

    $1.2 billion of state money is apparently going to private landlords to house poor people in often poor housing. A lot of good quality state and public housing could be built or renovated with that money. With some firm regulations to keep rents down we could house everyone well again. This has happened in the past in NZ so could be done again.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 3.1

      It is probably higher than that. Amounts over AS limits are picked up by TAS.

  4. cowboy 4

    I was appalled at Nick Smiths arrogance and denial on the weekend political shows. Especially so in light of the damning footage of people living in cars and the proliferation of families living in garages. The human cost especially for the kids brought up in those situations must be horrendous. Not the New Zealand I ever thought id see.

    It seems his Namesake in Kaikoura is afflicted with a similar dose of arrogance.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79943215/johns-kitchen-coordinator-janette-walker-labels-kaikoura-mp-stuart-smith-out-of-touch

    No wonder he is too busy to attend to his constituents issues, he has been too busy spruiking baby formula for Chinese donors to the National Party.

    • John shears 4.1

      Cowboy Agreed what a waste of space he is.

    • North 4.2

      Crooked, amoral bastards !

      (1) Deny, deny, deny the problem…..

      (2) Belatedly acknowledge we’ve lost our way…..

      (3) Declare that kids living in cars is not OK…..

      (4) Mock-earnestly wank on about what must be done…..

      (5) Borrow $3 billion for tax cuts to buy votes 2017…..

      (6) 2018 – “What’s that you say, children living in cars ?”

      From the top, altogether now, (1)…..(2)…..(3) etc etc etc.

      Crooked, amoral bastards ! They simply do not care…..

    • North 4.3

      Stuart Smith National MP……arrogant pig !

      “Smith said he had visited various social agencies around Blenheim but had not spent time at John’s Kitchen. He said he had a full diary and had no plans to visit the Blenheim social service.”

      • Cowboy 4.3.1

        Just like Todd Barclay. Another arrogant and entitled Nat in a safe rural seat.

        I see Winston is taking it to the Nats with a public meeting in Gore next week. I think they smell blood with Barclay. Maybe he should stop in at Kaikoura on the way home.

    • Gangnam Style 4.4

      Someone is making a bunch of money “decontaminating” state houses that’s for sure.

  5. adam 5

    A 17 minute video which does a really good job of summing up what happening in USA. I’d suggest you skip across the clapping part at start and get into the real meat of the topic Abby Martin is talking about.

    • Bill 5.1

      Like her observation that Bernie Sanders, for all the criticism that anyone may want to throw at him, has taken the essential message of Occupy: the sentiment the mainstream wanted to shut down and shut out – and he’s taken it right into the heart of the mainstream.

      I think that’s true.

      • adam 5.1.1

        I have real problems with Sanders, but when Abby said that – I thought she is right. And I think the longer Sanders keeps in the race, the more the message will sink in.

        17 more attack pieces on Sanders in the New York Journal last week. That is 16 more than against Trump. So he must be doing something right.

    • ianmac 5.2

      Is there a market in NZ for an Abby Martin or a Bernie Sanders? Andrew could maybe but where could he get a forum? TV? Radio? Newspaper? Live audience? With the News tied up by the Right and a well oiled machine to undermine alternative voices how can we get such a message as Abby’s out there? Oh Dear!

      • adam 5.2.1

        We have voices like Abby Martin. Did you forget you were commenting on an alternative news source ianmac.

        The idea is not to despair. Indeed, voices are being heard. Ideas are out there. It’s not all about the labour party.

        We have a voice, we only have this system, because we let it happen. And the more people react around the globe, slowly but surly people here will get the message too.

        Because tax cut, and the free market are not delivering freedom and liberty for all.

        • ianmac 5.2.1.1

          Not sure what you mean by alternative news source though. We are interested so we click “play”, but can you imagine Puckish Rogue or Matthew Hooton clicking on?

          • adam 5.2.1.1.1

            You may have noticed I don’t read much NZ news, a few links from here. For me it’s the evening report, and scoop every-other day. I just don’t do the so call MSM or as I call them, the corporate media.

            I read a lot of international news, and that take on NZ is rather different. Actually, I find it funny when I read the likes of Puckish and others, they have no idea what the rest of the world thinks. And seem to enjoy it that way.

            I don’t care what Puckish or Hooten click or not. I’m more interested in a informed, engaged, hopeful, and democratic readership.

            • ianmac 5.2.1.1.1.1

              The point is that many of us on the “Left” are sympathetic to the urgency for a fair and inclusive society, but this does not reach the PRs or the Hootens. The Key believers who I know are allergic to any such talk. So the question is still how do we engage at least “middle” swinging voters?

  6. ianmac 6

    “Prime Minister John Key has signalled National will campaign in 2017 on a $3 billion package of tax cuts.”
    English says not likely. Key says yes.
    See what they are doing? Testing the waters since tax cuts benefit mostly the rich, it may not be politic to actually deliver more tax cuts for the rich.

    • Jenny Kirk 6.1

      Yeah – I’ve just read that as well. Today’s Herald online. You think they”re testing the waters, ianmac ? Maybe they are.
      Or maybe they’re preparing everyone for a big fudging of the country’s economy (ie hey we have a surplus, we can now give that away to our voters !) Whichever it is, I’m pretty sure we’re going to see some big pork barrel politics rolled out next year.
      Yuk ! and it’ll be very grubby …….

      • Paul 6.1.1

        So even less for the unemployed , abused women, mental health, schools, hospitals, the poor, the vulnerable……

        Ugly, selfish, cruel.
        2016 New Zealand.

      • ianmac 6.1.2

        I think Jenny, that previous tax cuts were seen as good for the rich and the Middle-poor saw it as pretty mean. So they are careful this time to make sure that it is their supporters who are happy. Litmus test?

    • dv 6.2

      Mean while national debt

      NZ$ 116,890,480,060

      Interest
      5,577,213,742 per year

    • Tricledrown 6.3

      Another distraction.
      It will be if you vote for us deal just before the election their will be cuts to get more wait till after the election.

  7. Chooky 7

    ‘Boris Johnson likens EU drive for ‘superstate’ to Hitler’s, prompts shower of anger’

    https://www.rt.com/uk/343090-johnson-eu-hitler-napoleon/

    “A frantic backlash has followed a remark by London’s ex-mayor, Boris Johnson, who said modern EU bureaucracy pursues the same goals as previous European “integrators” Napoleon and Hitler did and thus creates a “massive democratic void.”…

  8. Rosemary McDonald 8

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/303970/electricity-industry-shake-up-on-the-cards

    At the moment, the cost of getting electricity from the source to the consumer is spread evenly….regardless of where you live.

    This is about to change….

    “Based on all the signals from the Electricity Authority to date, I am picking that the Transmission Pricing Methodology will go significantly towards a beneficiary-pays approach rather than a one-price-for-everyone that is in place at the moment,” he said.

    “It is likely to produce much more efficient investments in transmission assets over time.”

    In its proposal last June, the authority estimated some power bills would fall and some stay the same. However Auckland and Northland would pay 4.5 percent more and the Far North and the West Coast 10 percent more.”

    OK…so power users are now “beneficiaries” and those “beneficiaries” living in two of the most economically challenged areas of New Zealand will be paying 10% more for transmission charges.

    Consumers in the Far North already pay eye watering power bills…

    • ianmac 8.1

      Marlborough had its own dam to supply much of our electricity, but under the Bradford reforms small dams such as ours were instead given to the main grid. Our daily line charge is $1.99 per day or $61.69 per month. In the city I believe it is far less per day.
      So I think the line charges will increase under the User Pays plan that the Electricity Authority is looking for. And those in the country at the end of a line will pay more. Great for Dairy farms?

      • dv 8.1.1

        Our charge is $2.18 per day in city.

        • ianmac 8.1.1.1

          Ouch dv. Recently I changed from my $1.99 per day to 33cents per day by signing up as a Low User. We pay more per Kw @ 33cents per kw. But as long as we stay under 8,000 kw per year we gain on the deal. ie 22kw per day is the break even point.
          I read somewhere yesterday that a person working for a provider (Mercury?) was told to avoid offering Low User and try to divert customers onto different contract. Mmm.

          • dv 8.1.1.1.1

            Damn I hadn’t noticed till I noticed!!!

          • instrider 8.1.1.1.2

            Maybe that was because they are trying to protect people who sign up for the low rate getting pummeled when they go over the limit. It’s not going to be suitable for most customers with families.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2

      User pays strikes again by pushing the price up. More profits for the already rich sourced from the most impoverished.

      You’d almost think that the government was trying to push people out of those places by making it so that the people already there can’t afford to live there. Is this about cleaning out the impoverished from desirable areas to make way for the uber rich that NZs becoming a bolt-hole for?

      • Rosemary McDonald 8.2.1

        Straight out of the “How To Make a Zombie Town” manual.

        • Molly 8.2.1.1

          But the opportunity is there for those towns to get out of the system entirely, via schemes such as the Blueskin Power Co-operative.

        • instrider 8.2.1.2

          It’s the opposite. It is passing costs on to those that are not located close to power sources. That should advantage many regional consumers and businesses who live close to power sources. This is good for most places except Auckland north. The west coast would be better off if they had managed to be allowed to build the hydro schemes they wanted

          • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1.2.1

            Wow. Do you actually read the tripe that you write?

            Advantaging people who live closer to power supply than those that live further away pushes people who live further away to move closer thus causing those regional towns to close down, to become Zombie Towns.

            • instrider 8.2.1.2.1.1

              Most of the so called zombie towns are closer to power supplies than Auckland . So cheaper power would (in theory) help make them more attractive and less zombie like.

              You want to deny much of regional NZ the benefit of lower power costs by forcing them to pay the same as wealthy aucklanders

      • instrider 8.2.2

        So you think that relatively rich Auckland should be subsidised by relatively poor Dunedin?

        • Draco T Bastard 8.2.2.1

          As it is if there’s any subsidies, and I doubt if there are, it will be from Auckland to the rest of the country. If this change goes ahead then there really will be subsidies – from the rest of the country to Auckland as the rest of the countries prices go up – especially those in poorer areas.

          At a national level it really doesn’t cost any more to maintain the lines in Northland than in Auckland. Charging some areas more and some areas less isn’t about economics or incentives but about making more profit for the lines companies/generators.

          • McFlock 8.2.2.1.1

            At a national level it really doesn’t cost any more to maintain the lines in Northland than in Auckland.

            Maybe not (although I suspect there’s more in the way of tree trimming and suchlike in rural areas, and farther travel times for the crews).

            However, the cost of getting the power from the source to the local 240V area would vary wildly according to distance (both in maintenance and power loss), durability, and accessibility.

          • instrider 8.2.2.1.2

            You’re wrong. We are talking about the relative cost of shifting power from a generator to a consumer. It is in fact a lot more expensive to build 100km of power line than it is to build 50km.

            Auckland has no substantial power plants nearby except Huntley, which doesn’t run all the time and is reducing output. So Auckland’s power has to travel a lot further than say Dunedin’s. You also get greater line losses. Yet Dunedin power companies are basically charged the same per mw as Auckland power companies and for no other reason than it’s easier.

            • xanthe 8.2.2.1.2.1

              It is not in the interest of the lines companies to promote a distributed renewable generation model and they have by anti-competitive and pricing models held the inevitable move to such a system back for as long as they could . now the end game begins

            • Draco T Bastard 8.2.2.1.2.2

              It is in fact a lot more expensive to build 100km of power line than it is to build 50km.

              Good job I didn’t say build then isn’t it.

              Yet Dunedin power companies are basically charged the same per mw as Auckland power companies and for no other reason than it’s easier.

              And fairer considering that we all paid to build the infrastructure equally.

              Splitting things up like this actually breaks the economy and the scale that building nationally produces. That’s what we’ve been seeing for the last thirty years and why things keep getting more expensive.

              • instrider

                You cant just maintain the grid you sometimes have to build new stuff. Just recently 470m was spent on new lines in auckland. Another billion was spent on lines to Auckland. All this gets paid for by consumers. Your method makes it much more expensive because there is no pressure to keep down costs. If aucklanders were faced with fully funding the infrastructure they benefit from, they might have gone for less costly options. Remember much of this new investment was the result of socialized transpowwer not actually maintaining the network adequately.

              • joe90

                Good job I didn’t say build then isn’t it.

                Yeah, but do you appreciate the factors involved – distance, voltage, conductor size, equipment sizing, selection and siting, workmanship, power factor, unbalanced/unequal phase/load distribution, leakage, overloading, abnormal operating conditions – and that’s only transmission.

    • Molly 8.3

      And to my mind, a better system would be to require those that use over a standard amount – a higher usage charge.

      I remember a few years ago, hearing that some households have a power bill of over $700/wk. This usage reflected the need to keep the pool heated, the landscaping lights on, the multiple power vampire appliances on standby.

      At the time, a discussion was being had regarding the necessity to upgrade the power infrastructure. I thought then – and I still do – that charges (like taxes) should be progressive, if you are using significantly more than a standard amount for the number of people living in your household then you pay a higher usage charge.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1

        Yep. Nationalised power generation and reticulation. Each household/business gets a set amount per month free (fully covered by taxes) which is enough to run a household on and after that they get charged and as they use more they get charged more per kilowatt.

        This implements actual supply and demand. The people who demand more pay more. As it is we actually have it around the other way with those who demand more paying less per unit. This incentivises incredibly poor economics.

  9. Tautoko Mangō Mata 9

    I think National are in deep trouble and are becomingly increasingly desperate.
    Key’s “ejection” from debating chamber, Matt Hooton’s “deeply “sanitised column, and now “look here, tax cuts” are panic responses to the current mess.
    NZers are not happy at links to corruption and the smirching of our country’s reputation. More principled conservatives are uneasy.

    The TPP ram-it-through-as-quickly-as-possible approach is not going down well, the housing situation is beyond crisis and younger people are becoming more politised as they see their future being affected detrimentally by poor current political choices.
    Parata’s school funding changes will probably initiate a revolt…all good!

    • Puckish Rogue 9.1

      Well it is possible that National are in deep trouble I don’t think they are, they certainly would have been had the Panama Papers come up with anything substantial but as it is its reinforced the notion that Labour are crying wolf and, surprisingly to my mind at least, that the Greens are more level headed of the opposition

      I suspect that the worries you share are not shared with the voting public however as its my own opinion I may well be wrong so, unfortunately, we’ll just have to wait for the next opinion polls to come out

      I think it’ll be bad news for Labour, minor negative news for National, good news for Winston First and minor positive news for the Greens in that whatever voted National loses will go to Winston and some of what Labour loses will go to the Greens

    • Chooky 9.2

      +100 TMM…no matter what Hooton and jonkey’s Nact supporters spin….jonkey has been shown up !

  10. Tautoko Mangō Mata 10

    The first time the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement was brought before Whanganui District Council, it sparked a walkout……..
    The TPP will be back before council this month when the local authority will again be asked to consider the impact the 12-nation deal will have on its business.
    TPPA Action Whanganui has made a submission to the annual plan, asking council to consider a range of areas it believes to be threatened by the agreement.
    Among the action group’s concerns are the council’s ability to control water rights, to procure work from local businesses and its support of iwi rights.

    “The demands of the TPP threaten all of the above and council needs to do its homework and plan to put measures in place, removing all present weaknesses around these matters before possible ratification of the TPP,” spokeswoman Denise Lockett said. She believed some council business would be undermined by the trade agreement and urged council to fight to retain its decision-making power.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503426&objectid=11639520

  11. Hami Shearlie 11

    According to the Director General of the UN office in Geneva, the number one reason people leave Syria is not to escape war, it’s to find educational opportunities for their vast numbers of children – well their solution is really simple: stop mindless shooting, build your own universities, and work hard to pay for them like we in the West do – simple really. Pretending to be refugees to come and mooch off people in the West is just not on. Thanks for finally telling us the truth Mr Moller! The people of the West don’t appreciate being lied to over and over again!
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/refugee-crisis-facts-un-michael-moller_uk_5734277ee4b01359f6866db0

  12. dukeofurl 12

    Any links to IPCC for that ?
    “My guess is that we will hit 2 deg C by 2030.”

    Surely it will all come right by vertebral subluxation or some such discovery

    [Flaming and trolling. Shifting to Open Mike.] – Bill

    • weka 12.1

      You think that the IPPC knows what CV thinks? CV just posted his best guess based on being informed.

      “Surely it will all come right by vertebral subluxation or some such discovery”

      That’s out and out flaming. Reread the post and see if you still think picking a fight is appropriate.

      • dukeofurl 12.1.1

        Someone whos whole career is built on quack medicine ( unless he one of the few who do follow more mainstream ideas) will always pluck unsupported views out of the ether.
        Its a common error to confuse weather with climate.
        For Dunedin
        http://www.metservice.com/towns-cities/dunedin
        Monthy highest for April is 25 , historical average 24….. yyawn nothing to see but chooks flapping their wings who will never fly

        • weka 12.1.1.1

          Troll. There’s probably a special name for denialist trolls, but I can’t be arsed with someone so blatantly stupid.

          • McFlock 12.1.1.1.1

            The name is definitely not “drolls” 🙂

          • dukeofurl 12.1.1.1.2

            Perhaps you could give the temperature data for your location to show the Dunedin numbers are against the trend.
            NZ long term trend is 1C per century. Thats what its called baby, global warming.

            So you arent with the medical community who believe most chiropractric is modern quackery ?

  13. Rosemary McDonald 13

    Little steps up….http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80013933/prime-minister-john-key-says-homeless-families-should-contact-work-and-income

    “Labour leader Andrew Little: PM ‘out of touch’ with families in hardship”

    If the comments section is anything to go by (and why not?) JK and Co are in deepest of smelly stuff…..

    • ianmac 13.1

      Tried to imagine a car family arriving at Work and Income asking for accommodation. Waiting list? Sorry. Can’t help.

      • North 13.1.1

        And mum or dad gets angry and mouthy under the pressure of it when they’re basically told to go away and come back in three weeks once they’ve seen the budgeter – for whom there’s actually a month long waiting list anyway.

        “Oh well……trespass notice for you if you can’t behave !”

        More in the narrative – “These people are scum who’ve done it to themselves !”

    • Gangnam Style 13.2

      Theres room here for Labour, I need them to be the opposite of National before they get my vote, also imagine debating National on this with a Nat trying to justify homelessness. Like we saw with Key defending not paying tax (“if you are a Mexican worried about your countries inheritance laws”), they look weak & out of touch.

  14. Puckish Rogue 14

    https://imperatorfish.com/2016/05/10/a-brief-history-of-the-labour-party/

    For those that have a sense of humour click on the link, I’m sure its not completely serious

  15. Michael 15

    Just as well Labour’s got such progressive policies to deal with climate change then, isn’t it?

    [Shoddy attempt to derail. Shifted to Open Mike] – Bill

    • Draco T Bastard 15.1

      The RWNJs have obviously had their C/T lines handed to them.

    • Michael 15.2

      Why? Your post concerned climate change. I observed that Labour has nothing in the way of policy to deal with the issue. Is criticism of Labour fobidden on this site then?

      [lprent: No – read the policy. Idiots who are just trolling lines written by a PR wanker and who don’t say anything worth reading are. If you’d have been serious then you would have pointed that out, and have been pointed to those really easy to google links like this page. It took me all of 10 seconds to find.

      Banned for one week.

      I figure that with your obviously piss-poor comprehension levels this will should hopefully be enough time to read the site policy. However if you get stuck on the big words – like policy and self-martyrdom, then I suggest you consult a dictionary. (Drat that may be beyond a trolls comprehension).

      It is a book or a website that defines words.

      Try this word as a test and clear description of you – “dickhead” ]

  16. joe90 16

    Warren on the ticket and Trump really will get his hate on.

    “You want a running mate who can take the fight to the other side with relish,” said a Clinton veteran. “Geography doesn’t matter, but attitude and talent and energy and bringing excitement to the campaign, Senator Warren does all that.”

    In many ways, a Warren pick makes perfect sense. She’s widely respected and admired for her anti-Wall Street crusades, and she is already playing a lead role in the Democratic fight against Trump on social media. As a hero to many of the same people who currently support Clinton’s Democratic rival Bernie Sanders, her presence in the Clinton campaign could help unite the party. And she would bring extra firepower to what is sure to be a brutal general election.

    There’s just one problem: She’s a woman. Is a presidential ticket big enough for two of them?

    For voters who are already uneasy about the prospect of a woman in the White House (hint: mostly white men), a Warren addition might be the final straw. They’d go Trump for good. But it seems unlikely that those who pine for the days of Mad Men were going to vote for Clinton anyway. And some argue that Clinton doesn’t really need more white men, as they’re a declining portion of the electorate.

    http://qz.com/684589/in-an-election-dominated-by-misogyny-a-clinton-warren-ticket-might-just-work/

    • dukeofurl 16.1

      A good pick but unlikely.
      Democrats have their minimum core 18 states, which they have won every election since 1992, with 242 electoral votes

      They just need an extra one or two like Florida , and 28 EVs, to win the Presidency,

      Logic says a figire who can bring a state like Florida or another region has best chance of being VP pick

  17. Chooky 17

    So did they really land an American man on the moon or not?…imo NOT! ( the biggest USA porky of all time?)

    ‘Invisible maelstrom: NASA flies spacecraft through magnetic explosions above Earth (VIDEO)’

    https://www.rt.com/viral/343121-nasa-magnetic-explosions-spacecraft/

    “NASA has made its first ever observations from the heart of a ‘magnetic reconnection’ event thanks to its Magnetospheric Multiscale mission (MMS).

    The mission, consisting of four identical spacecraft, was launched in March 2015 to observe these reactions in the magnetosphere – scientists had previously only witnessed reconnection in the laboratory…

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