Open Mike 16/10/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 16th, 2017 - 95 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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Step up to the mike …

95 comments on “Open Mike 16/10/2017”

  1. Ed 1

    ‘A former New Zealand First MP wants the party to back Labour – saying a large number of voters clearly want change and a decision must account for the party’s long-term survival.

    Pita Paraone, who served as an MP from 2002 until 2008, and from 2014 until this election, has on the eve of a final NZ First meeting to decide the next Government thrown his support behind a deal with Labour.

    “Personally, I feel the winds of change,” he told the Herald. “I think the decision they must make is one that will also ensure the future of New Zealand First. And I think one of the things they have got to consider is people quite clearly want change.”

    Paraone said while National was easily the biggest party, a majority of voters didn’t support it. ‘

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11933255

  2. Tony Veitch (not etc) 2

    You couldn’t make this stuff up!

    A porn mogul offers a big reward to get a pussy grabber removed from office!

    Comedy gold!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2017/10/LarryFlyntAd.pdf?tid=a_inl

  3. I respect the right to comment here is not a given and over the years I’ve sometimes got angry enough to say bye bye to this community.

    We imo don’t have enough voices from women and we know this can be unsafe commenting environment for women because that is what they have told us.

    I am more than disturbed that Tracey said she is leaving. I hope that doesn’t happen, I really do. You are wanted and needed here Tracey – Kia kaha!

    Open Mike 15/10/2017

    • Andre 3.2

      Yes, that was a seriously disturbing thread. And it wasn’t Tracey’s part in it that upsets me.

    • Carolyn_nth 3.3

      Seriously!

      If RL’s moderator bold comment is allowed to stand, and Tracey goes, I’m gone too.

      I have no actual knowledge of RL’s off line experience with women. And I agree with Tracey’s last comment about my own experiences with women and men. Relationships can be very angst ridden and painful, but that doesn’t mean all our painful experiences are part of gendered abuse of power.

      The issue is about power on and off the TS, and is part of a pattern that is very gendered throughout society.

      See for instance this Newsroom article today about the context for gendered power relationships in NZ’s film industry. It is in this context that powerful men sexually harass and abuse women, and then use their power to restrict the careers of non-compliant women (and sometimes men).

      There is widespread use of (usually young) women in the film industry as a decorative accompaniment to powerful men (of various ages) on and off the screen. Sometimes men are used this way, too – and there is a particularly strong use of this power to control women (and men) of colour. In this way, masculine dominance is continually maintained.

      All I have seen from RL on gender issues are comments trying to control the discussion of gender on TS to support his own stated interests. It is very much controlling behaviour, that tends to derail and undermine women’s statements of their experiences of sexual harassment and abuse. And when women have failed to comply, RL pulls out his moderator status – which seems to be higher than Tracey’s.

      Ban me for commented thus, if you will. All I am seeing in such TS discussions of gender, in the final instance, supports a hierarchical masculine dominance – with a small number of men with most power.

      Thanks for the support from men like marty mars, and for pointing out the moderation in the linked comment.

      • miravox 3.3.1

        “All I have seen from RL on gender issues are comments trying to control the discussion of gender on TS to support his own stated interests. It is very much controlling behaviour, that tends to derail and undermine women’s statements of their experiences of sexual harassment and abuse. And when women have failed to comply, RL pulls out his moderator status – which seems to be higher than Tracey’s.”

        ^^^ This.

        and it’s really disappointing that RL effectively removes women from this site because he doesn’t like the way the debate is going.

      • Karen 3.3.2

        +1 Carolyn.

        And thanks for your support Marty.

      • Gristle 3.3.3

        I agree that RL action of putting in comments as a moderator is exploiting a power imbalance between him and Tracey.

        This behaviour needs to be acknowledged and stop.

      • Bill 3.3.4

        For what it’s worth, I genuinely value the contributions you make Carolyn_nth. And I’d very much like if that continued to be the case.

      • RedLogix 3.3.5

        Oh grow up. I’ve explained several times quite clearly that I did the bold comment simply to make a clear reply. In a fast moving thread it’s very easy for people to miss things, get the timing and sequencing mixed up, talking at cross-purposes.

        Nor was there anything unusual in doing this; I can point to many other examples of the same sort of thing done by others. Bolding type does not automatically mean moderation; it’s just a convention to get people’s attention.

        Nor can anyone point to any place where I have attempted to control the conversation. That is utterly crazy. If anything I went out of my way to respond to everyone with a reasoned discussion and treated you all with complete respect. At no point was anyone told they ‘could not say something’. At no point did I use moderation to limit or direct anything anyone said.

        The sole and specific point that I did make a stand on was just that … categorically in a decade of being here I have been scrupulous to be as even-handed as possible, and to avoid mis-using moderation to control the content of the debate. Being accused of that twice by tracey is a direct personal attack on a moderator, and on a personal value that is really important to me … and I made a clear specific warning to her not to repeat it. Still if she wants to throw her toys out of the cot because of a simple warning … that is absolutely her right to respond as suits her.

        Also when other moderators have in my view misused moderation in the past, I have been very careful to not to attack them in public. I’ve either remained silent or ensured they were not undermined.

        Given this was the first time in probably 18 months that I’ve said anything significant on a topic that is important to me …. for reasons many of you understand perfectly well … it’s just not tenable to suggest I’m trying to control any kind of discussion.

        Nor are there any rational grounds to claim to suggest I am undermining or derailing women’s very real and legitimate interests here. Pointing out that the misuse of power by bullies and predators has many and varied contexts in no way subtracts or diminishes from what women are saying. If anything it adds and reinforces their case; if anything it demonstrates that both genders have a shared interest in addressing the root causes and understandings, if anything I would have expected women to welcome men engaging honestly and openly around their experiences and perspectives. But no; not welcome at all apparently.

        But I’m under no illusion this will change anything. I understand exactly why everyone will continue to hate me for saying this, and the sly snarks and deniable personal attacks will just escalate from here. tracey said at one point that ‘this was all about me’. Sure … you made it so when you attacked me personally rather than addressing the content of pretty much anything I was saying.

        For instance I referenced at least three interesting articles and some very good work by researcher David Lisak. Not a peep in response, total silence. No actual debate, just emotive claims of ‘derailing’ and “MRA politics’ and the like. Dismissing any discussion of how men might feel about all this, demeaning it as ‘childish me too’ in order to erase and control male voices is a pretty transparent ploy.

        In my view TS has fallen well off the pace in this topic; we’ve gotten locked into a stale confrontational debate when there are plenty of balanced and sane voices elsewhere moving making much the same case I am. (Just usually with more research, finesse and eloquence.)

        Still as weka and others have clearly stated; they would clearly prefer that any masculine perspective (and emphatically this is not the same thing as speaking for all people with male genitals) should be silenced. And out of respect for my fellow authors and moderators, and because this topic clearly causes far too much disruption … I commit to absolutely never saying anything on any gendered topic ever again.

        Note: I’ve made this comment without being logged in so as it’s perfectly clear I’m not moderating or bolding anything.

        • Antoine 3.3.5.1

          Sounds like a wise decision.

          So does your threat to ban Tracey still hold?

          A.

          • RedLogix 3.3.5.1.1

            It was not a threat; it was a very specific and clear warning (again perfectly normal practise) not to repeat a false claim that I was misusing moderation to ‘bully her into silence’.

            As far as I’m concerned it’s yesterday’s thread and in the past. I’ve made my case and I’m leaving it there; so clearly the warning has expired.

        • marty mars 3.3.5.2

          I think you should take some time out. Your comments on that thread were unacceptable imo. Even today you are still trying to bully people. You don’t want to listen just browbeat people with your well understood views, after all this isn’t the first or second time this has happened is it.

          I put this up so Tracey would know she is supported and needed as a commenter and you are once again making it all about you.

          I also am sorry you are in so much pain – i hope it is sorted for you sooner rather than later.

          • RedLogix 3.3.5.2.1

            Tracey and others made it ‘all about me’ by attacking me personally, rather than addressing the content. I can’t change that now; I’m merely responding just as you are completely entitled to.

            And I note that as with every person replying to me, you ALL gang up to express outrage at what I am saying, venting emotion all over me … but not no-one has attempted any consistent explanation why. It’s not very impressive.

            But really that has to be it. As I said I’ve committed not to comment on gendered issues again and if you would allow this conversation to wrap up with mutual dignity that would be appreciated.

            • marty mars 3.3.5.2.1.1

              It will wrap up when EVERYONE who wants to say something has the opportunity to say it imo. That is respectful dignity for all.

              • RedLogix

                OK everyone form a queue here and vent on RL.

                Fortunately it’s a nice day outside.

                Cheers

                • Ok i’ll make this my last comment to you on this for today.

                  Your ego and bullshit has undermined the months of work that has gone on to create a safer commenting environment for women here imo. Even now you are attacking people with ‘grow up’ lines. Imo you should be saying sorry to everyone especially women contributors and commenters but you appear to think you are the aggrieved party, that it’s you who have been hurt and misheard. It isn’t.

                  I have really been working hard not to allow my anger at your attitudes to flow through to the keyboard and have treated you with respect. Pity you cannot do that for others.

            • Karen 3.3.5.2.1.2

              “Tracey and others made it ‘all about me’ by attacking me personally.”

              The opposite is true RL. You are obviously in pain and I am sorry about that. However, although that explains your bullying behaviour yesterday, it does not excuse it IMO. I realise that you have had to develop various coping mechanisms to deal with things that have happened to you in the past, but maybe it is time you spent some time reflecting on why your comments yesterday were upsetting to many of us.

            • Sam aka clump 3.3.5.2.1.3

              Wah! Wah! Wah!

              [r0b: Is that really a helpful contribution?]

              • Sam aka clump

                Its the job of intellectuals to make things look complicated. I just don’t see a justification for it. When you go looking for people with more problems than than yourself with the aim of coming up with big long words and evidence of models that only a few seem to understand – it always ends in tears.

                Maybe a vent in the shower or a walk. But seriously. Let me ask you a question. Was the online friendship (if you can call it that) going to end any other way?

          • Anne 3.3.5.2.2

            I think you should take some time out.

            Fair enough marty but I think there were one or two other commenters yesterday who perhaps could also benefit from a brief bit of time out. I interpreted RL’s intentions quite differently from the rest of you – maybe because I can fully empathise with his experience. It was Open Mike after all and unlike a dedicated post… commenters are free to post on any topic they wish from any angle they choose. Perhaps it was an unwise decision of RL’s to contribute, but imo his views were as relevant as anyone else’s and therefore were deserving of more respect.

            • marty mars 3.3.5.2.2.1

              Well i always read your comments with an open mind Anne because we are often in alignment. Thank you for your feedback.

            • weka 3.3.5.2.2.2

              Whatever the issues are with Red’s politics and how he expresses them, there’s also the issue of how he used his moderating powers yesterday. That resulted in TS losing an author, which we really can’t afford. We also can’t afford to lose the few women authors we have and each time this happens it gets that much harder to encourage women to write here. IMO this applies to comments too. It’s a big issue for the site, and very disappointing to see this playing out yet again.

            • Andre 3.3.5.2.2.3

              I think it was the wrong place for the subject. Had it been made as a new thread in Open Mike – something like “…with all the recent attention about men harassing women, we should keep in mind it’s a subset of a wider problem of gender power dynamics and bullying…” maybe it wouldn’t have gone off the rails so badly. As it was, to me it definitely came across as a male bullying females in a thread about the problem of males abusing power over females.

            • Andrea 3.3.5.2.2.4

              Thanks, Anne. There are some fem posters here who come across as quite intimidating. A rapid reversion to doctrine and denigration seems to be a common ploy to close down divergent comment.

              Clear instances of ‘tin ear’ and follies in comprehension. Humility might help.

              For those on the receiving end – know they won’t listen to any other side, or cut any slack at all. Like the Red Queen: ‘Off with his head!’

              Sweet reason is wasted. Just walk away. You don’t have to play with the handmaidens of Kali Maa.

        • joe90 3.3.5.3

          . Pointing out that the misuse of power by bullies and predators has many and varied contexts in no way subtracts or diminishes from what women are saying.

          Mate, that’s exactly what it does when you insert yourself and your whataboutism, by casting a fucking big shadow over any discussion about the abuse of women.
          .

    • JanM 3.5

      I think the thing that grated on me the most that Tracey rightly got upset about was the ‘me too’ that often pops up from a few men whenever we try to have a serious discussion about the problems women have with power imbalance and abuse. I can remember this happening a lot in the 60s/70s and consciously or not, it serves to derail a topic that needs serious consideration.
      The ‘me too’ commenters act like spoilt children. If there is a significant issue about the treatment of men by women, and this exercises them, then they need to be grown-ups and start their own discussion, not hang on the coat tails of the women who have the courage to speak up.Hopefully most of us will listen with open hearts and minds and not go into ‘me too’ mode.
      Stay with us, Tracey, and we will hopefully support you better next time – and don’t you go, either, Carolyn nth – kia kaha, kia kotahi!

      • greywarshark 3.5.1

        I think the thing that grates me about the modern feminist reaction to ‘me too’ from men, is that many women seem to want to wallow in the wrongs they personally receive, pay a little attention to those suffered by women in other countries/religions as if that makes them all sisters, an refer to the ongoing maltreatment of women in wars and conflicts, and don’t have anyconcern left for the rest of hu-man-ity.

        It’s ‘Get out of my wallow, and find one of your own’. You are all at fault and we take precedence in bemoaning being victimised by the enormity of lack of respect and empathy for each other, lack of human kindness to each other, and lack of personal integrity in attempting to improve oneselves even to just adopting the simple ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you’.

        • JanM 3.5.1.1

          I’ve had several tries at answering this, but have come to the conclusion that your use of the emotive ‘wallow’ tends to suggest that you are emoting rather than replying in a way that shows that you have understood what I said.

    • Antoine 3.6

      Tracey should stay. Just because RL is annoying is no reason to leave.

      A.

      PS It is not at all obvious to me that giving mods the power to “ban at will” actually makes the Standard a better place

    • Bill 3.7

      Thanks for sign-posting marty.

      To whoever…I’ve taken the liberty of quickly editing those comments, but I’ve no idea if it cleans anything up a bit or whether I’ve just knocked a bucket over an already soggy mess.

      Time will tell.

    • weka 3.8

      Thanks marty and everyone for speaking up about this. It’s very helpful to have that support especially for the women authors and commenters. What happened yesterday wasn’t ok, and the more people that point this out the better.

      • RedLogix 3.8.1

        In the past you have done a number of things that in my opinion were ‘not ok’, but I was careful not to undermine you in public about it.

      • marty mars 3.8.2

        Thanks weka. And a special kia kaha to you because I have seen the improvements here to create safe spaces for women to comment (still need to sort that for Māori but that will happen I think) and I appreciate that so much.

        • weka 3.8.2.1

          cheers marty. I also think if we can sort the issues for women writers and commenters it will open the way for improvements for Māori too.

          • rhinocrates 3.8.2.1.1

            I’m glad I missed yesterday.

            Bion of Borysthenes, as cited by Plutarch:

            “Though boys throw stones at frogs in sport, yet the frogs do not die in sport but in earnest.”

            Clearly this is not ‘sport’, but the point Bion makes is that one’s intentions are not sufficient excuse for one’s actions. One must try to empathise with the recipient and that means understanding that they will perceive things differently from oneself.

            A woman’s reaction to her treatment has to be understood in relation to her lifetime experience as a woman, so listen to what she has to say about why she feels as she does.

            This a problem endemic to the left – that certain spokesmen think of themselves as the default for human experience – Trotter is particularly egregious on this – and denigrate ‘identity politics’ as a ‘distraction’ from their needs. The right are proud of this blindness, but sadly much of the left is in denial about it’s own flaws.

            (It’s a lesson Plunkett could learn too about his ‘social experiment’.)

            …so please stay Tracey.

    • Stuart Munro 3.9

      Yes. Please stay Tracy.

  4. Cinny 4

    After listening to three interviews with bill english he dosen’t seem very upbeat or happy at all. Trying not to read anything in to it, but he seems to have an air of defeat around him.

    • ianmac 4.1

      And yet English has that fixed grin on all day and night probably as well. A bit of Key lesson?
      Except it doesn’t really work for me.

      • Cinny 4.1.1

        Miss Twelve pointed out to me that he kept looking away from the camera on TVNZ

        Mum why is he looking to the left all the time?
        Why do you think he is darling?
        She replies…. Well I know that some people look away when they aren’t being honest or are nervous.

        Later on she asks… Mum what’s up with the chippy shortage?
        Climate Change darling…. then go on to tell her about the rain, she grows potatoes.
        Mum why aren’t they talking more about Climate Change instead of making jokes about chips?

        Two good points from Miss Twelve

        • Quokka 4.1.1.1

          Cinny, please give my best wishes to Miss (Ms ?) Twelve.

        • ianmac 4.1.1.2

          Yes Miss Twelve. And we were all lead to believe in Honest Bill. Ha!
          We only have a tiny section so this year I happen to be growing potatoes in buckets. I drilled holes for drainage and have 12 seed potatoes throwing healthy foliage upwards. Might beat the shortage yet.

        • Adrian 4.1.1.3

          Climate change? Really, 25% more rain in a particular month is evidence of climate change, that’s weather, a completely normal natural process.

    • NewsFlash 4.2

      My thoughts too when I saw him again tonight, I suspect he thinks Peters is taking the piss, guilty conscience if he’s got one.

  5. Quokka 5

    The medical profession officially recognised “burnout” in Hawai’i today – originally the point in time and trajectory when missile fuel combustion exhausts reserves, popularized as applying to humans in caring professions by Maslach in the 60’s.

    It will be interesting how scribes construct the implications of even more capable missile technology today – capable of reaching Hawai’i and California from Pyongyang – as if emergency services there did not already have enough to do.

    Hippocrates wrote some time ago “above all, do no harm”. The voice of experience ..

    Sun Tzu would doubtless agree.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_California_wildfires

    • Been reading about the effects of EMP after a nuclear detonation , – that in itself is alarming,… there was an article about a nuclear device detonated saying some 249 miles in the atmosphere would knock out most of the electrical grid in the continental US , and parts of Mexico and much of Canada. Civil society would close down rapidly , and the military / rapid response services would be denied any coordinated ability’s.

      And Nth Korea has announced this capacity with its nukes. Amazing , – and alarming , that a smallish country like that could in theory , so easily take down a behemoth like the USA.

      • Cinder 5.1.1

        You may want to have a read of these links, especially the Popular Mechanics article for the source of such claims.

        “Back to The Hill article, which claims an EMP attack by North Korea would kill “9 of 10 Americans by starvation and societal collapse.” The first clue that something is amiss with this claim is that, if you trace the link provided in the article, it cites the words of Congressman Roscoe Bartlett, who describes a novel he had read called One Second After. Bartlett says:

        “I read a prepublication copy of a book called One Second After. I hope it does get published; I think the American people need to read it. It was the story of a ballistic missile EMP attack on our country. The weapon was launched from a ship off our shore, and then the ship was sunk so that there were no fingerprints. The weapon was launched about 300 miles high over Nebraska, and it shut down our infrastructure countrywide. The story runs for a year. It is set in the hills of North Carolina. At the end of the year, 90 percent of our population is dead; there are 25,000 people only still alive in New York City. The communities in the hills of North Carolina are more lucky: only 80 percent of their population is dead at the end of a year.”

        Bartlett was so spooked by this novel that after he left Congress he moved into the woods and became a survivalist, where he spends his days “cutting logs, tending gardens and painting walls.” And just to be clear, the claim that North Korea could kill 90 percent of the American people was directly pulled from a science fiction novel.”

        http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a25883/north-korea-cant-kill-ninety-percent-of-americans/

        The US test “Starfish Prime” is the one referenced in terms of EMP effects and was a yield of roughly 1.4 Mt.
        North Korea’s best yield to date is perhaps 250 kt, and it is believed the reliability of their weapons is not the best.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse

        Of course, regardless of the EMP effect, the consequences would still be *!$&ing horrible.

        • WILD KATIPO 5.1.1.1

          Yeah it seems a bit excessive ( the 90% thing ).

          But rather a cumulative thing. The gradual ( in some cases rapid) shortages of food , medical services , and production of thereof , would kick in after just weeks for the population , for others already ill , it would be immediate. City’s would be a slow death trap as resources run out and looting / lack of enforcement began.

          Such unpleasanty’s we humans seem to delight in,…

          That’s why I posted a line from one of Barry Crumps novels a day or so ago…

          ” They’re all going mad out there ” ,… Uncle Hec said after listening to the news on the radio broadcast…

          And its true.

  6. adam 6

    Depressing, but love the way community helped each other.

    The state is wreaked, it can’t help. We need to do it in a new way.

  7. Penny Bright 7

    NZ WHISTLE-BLOWER UPDATE:

    MORE EVIDENCE OF ‘BANANA REPUBLIC’ NZ.

    (Monday 16 October 2017)

    How can Tamaki Regeneration Ltd, (100% Crown-owned) with $1.6 billion of formed HNZ Tamaki properties, be a ‘subsidiary’ of Tamaki Redevelopment Company Ltd – which owns NOTHING?

    How good is our supposedly leading ‘public audit’ body – the Office of the Auditor-General (OAG)?

    How come the OAG didn’t apparently pick up that neither Tamaki Redevelopment Company Ltd NOR Tamaki Regeneration Ltd were even listed as ‘Crown Entity Companies’ under Sch 2 of the Crown Entities Act 2004?

    https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/51SCSS_ADV_00DBSCH_ANR_71779_1_A546817/74107eb85bc690846d7d489774d35f6130f9798c

    “During the year three additional subsidiary entities were established.

    Tāmaki Regeneration Limited (TRL) was established for the purposes of housing redevelopment.

    THA GP Limited (THAGP) for tenancy/property management and Tāmaki Housing Association Limited Partnership (THALP) for future use.

    TRL and THALP are Crown entity subsidiaries under the Crown Entities Act 2004.

    TRL is not, however, a subsidiary of TRC for financial reporting purposes as the Crown controls TRL through the convertible preference shares it holds.
    ________________

    Crown Entities Act 2004 No 115 (as at 01 July 2017), Public Act Schedule 2 Crown entity companies – New Zealand Legislation

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2004/0115/latest/DLM331125.html

    There is NO Crown Entity Schedule for ‘Crown Entity subsidiaries’.

    Just Crown Entity Companies.

    Neither Tamaki Redevelopment Company Ltd, nor Tamaki Regeneration Ltd are listed under the Crown Entities Act 2004, Schedule 2 as ‘Crown Entity Companies’!

    File under “You Couldn’t Make This Sh*t Up’.

    This 5 minute video explaining the, IMO, ‘Tamaki Scam’ has now had over 174,000 views on facebook.

    IMO, the essence of the ‘Tamaki Scam’ has been to use similar-sounding names for different companies, in order to disguise the real private property developer-driven GENTRIFICATION’ agenda, as ‘Regeneration’ of poorer communities.

    Penny Bright

    • cleangreen 7.1

      Just another National Party rort in a strong National seat of Tauranga.

      This is more criminal enterprise as a naked scene is laid bare for all to see.

    • NewsFlash 7.2

      And the media are complaining there’s no news to report, I think they have lost the definition of news and replaced it with opinion

  8. Andre 8

    Car registrations: anyone want to offer a defense of the current fucked-up system we have with wild discrepancies between petrol and diesel and different levies based on a fairly crap “safety” dataset from a foreign country?

    Or is it time to ditch the ACC component of registration and load it all onto fuel?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/97705202/calls-to-get-rid-of-vehicle-licensing-and-its-235000-fines

    First up, there’s a huge difference in ACC treatment between petrol and diesel. All ACC levies for diesel vehicles are collected from registrations and none from fuel, whereas there is some ACC levy collected from petrol sales and some from petrol vehicle registrations. The only justification I’ve seen for this is mumbling about how commercial and farming users primarily use diesel and they pay ACC levies through the tax system. But those users already have accounting systems set up to track fuel payments etc and it would be bugger-all added expense or difficulty to reconcile ACC levies paid in fuel with the rest of their accounts.

    Then there’s the inequity of charging ACC for the act of simply owning a vehicle and keeping it ready for use. I can’t think of any hazard ACC should be concerned with associated with owning a vehicle, except for possible injuries while doing DIY repairs (which are much more likely on classic vehicles that are ACC exempt). The hazard comes from using the vehicle. So putting all the levy on fuel would mean the amount a user pays much more closely tracks the risk of a user making an ACC claim.

    Finally, the difference in ACC levy between different vehicles is entirely based on a crap estimate of how well a vehicle protects its occupants, and totally fails to consider the hazard of that vehicle to other road users. I own a 1994 Landrover Defender and a 2001 Daihatsu Sirion. The Defender has exactly the same safety features as the 1984 model Defender, yet is classed as safer (with a lower ACC levy) than 1993 or earlier Defenders. It’s also classed as safer than the Sirion, which has airbags, antilock brakes, crumple zones, pretensioning seatbelts, padding on interior hard points etc, which are all absent in the Defender. And if I’m to get hit by one of them, I’d definitely prefer it’s the Sirion.

    • weka 8.1

      I always assumed the primary reason for registering vehicles was so they were harder to sell if you stole one. Also, you can’t easily abandon them.

      Are there countries that don’t have vehicle registration?

      That’s separate from how levies should be applied (or at all). But it’s the difference between altering the system or dumping it.

      • Andre 8.1.1

        Unlike the article, I’m not advocating dumping registration altogether. But I would advocate setting registration fees just at the level needed to maintain the vehicles database. Which would just be the license component of current fees, $52.11 per year.

        Pennsylvania and Wisconsin were like that, annual fees just covered the database costs. California had basically a wealth tax on registration, where they added an extra fee based on a % (about 1% from memory) of the estimated value of the vehicle.

    • McFlock 8.2

      It’s not just farmers who use diesel off-road. Lots of places have stand-alone generators for uninterrupted power supplies, diesel engines for machinery, and even diesel for those jet-engine-style heaters.

      I’d suspect non-transport use of diesel is a far higher component of diesel use than e.g. lawnmowers and weedeaters are a component of petrol purchases.

      • Andre 8.2.1

        Sure. And diesel for marine use.

        But my point remains, that those non-transport users almost all have accounting systems set up so it’s a negligible change to them to add ACC levies to fuel.

        And at the moment I’m not aware of recreational marine users of diesel paying ACC levies anywhere, so putting the levy on fuel would mean they contribute something to ACC. Coz sure as shit recreational boating does have accidents that ACC ends up paying for.

        • McFlock 8.2.1.1

          Actually, recreational fishers would be non-work injuries and come out of a different account @ACC, paid into by all earners or from the general taxes if the injured person is not an earner.

          Whereas transport injuries come out of the specific transport account.

  9. Chris 9

    More hateful bullying from the extreme right corporates at IHC. Despicable.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/341656/eviction-forces-seriously-ill-man-to-live-in-motel

  10. I am sending heartfelt wishes for all the victims of the 2 Mogadishu truck bombs in Somalia. 276 dead at least and so many maimed and ruined, so many lives affected and loved ones suffering. I wish I had more to give, I’m sorry I don’t. I have my tears and that seems so inadequate.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/97902678/deadliest-attack-ever-in-somalia-kills-189

    • McFlock 10.1

      jeez that sucks.

    • Mickey Boyle 10.2

      This wont receive much coverage in the media, the sad thing is if this had of happened in New York or dare I say it Auckland imagine the coverage. Why does our media pick and choose their coverage of carnage?, do they think we don’t want to know or aren’t as interested because these people look different to us? or is this theory actually true, do we only care about european type atrocities?, makes you wonder.

      • Andre 10.2.1

        An atrocity in Las Vegas or New York or Nice gets lots more coverage here because local readers are much more likely to feel some kind of connection to where it happened. Maybe they have visited or know some locals there, and may have a feeling of “that could have been me”. Whereas very very few readers will feel any connection whatsoever to Mogadishu and the people there.

        • Mickey Boyle 10.2.1.1

          Yes I think you are probably right.

        • marty mars 10.2.1.2

          Yep to a point, yet they are people with families and loved ones. I’d imagine it is mainly because they are African and therefore people of colour that has a big influence too on the decisions to run with it. The magnitude of the terror bomb and death will put it on the news tonight and the fact that it is political as in terrorism and it is the biggest atrocity in that country will all counteract the colour issue. The clips will be barely watchable for those with tvs I’d say.

          • Andre 10.2.1.2.1

            I suppose to try tease out how much of the difference is due to the victims being Africans, and how much is whether readers feel a connection and the “could have been me” factor, you could ponder what the coverage would be like had this happened in say Nairobi or Zanzibar or Arusha. Somewhere that a reasonable number of NZers have actually visited.

            • marty mars 10.2.1.2.1.1

              Have many visited those places? I wouldn’t have a clue tbh. That side of kiwidom is not one i’m familiar with really – I’m too poor. Although I have been to Aussie and India about 25 years ago when I was in the Hari’s.

              • Andre

                Admittedly my social circle probably includes a fairly high number of people that travel a lot. But just off the top of my head I can think of 23 first-hand acquaintances that have been to at least one of them. That’s 23 more than people I know that have been to Mogadishu.

  11. Andre 11

    We’re certainly in the genitalia presidency. The orange howler monkey gave us way too much information about his own and his habits with other people’s. Now Tillerson feels the need to clarify the status of his. What next, will other members of cabinet have to clarify whether they’re grabbed or ungrabbed?

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/15/politics/tillerson-sotu-fully-intact/index.html

  12. Mickey Boyle 12

    Is anyone watching Manhunt Unabomber on the discovery channel?, i’m finding it absolutely riveting, if not check it out, its basically a short series on the hunt and capture of Theodore Kaczynski aka The Unabomber.

  13. James 13

    Well here is a fantastic opportunity for all the lefties who are so confident of a labour led government

    https://www.betfair.com.au/exchange/politics/event/28338644/market?marketId=1.133262888

    Great odds for you to make some serious money.

    Unless you are wrong of course.

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  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago