Nats – lousy at government – “brilliant” at opposition

Written By: - Date published: 9:57 am, October 15th, 2017 - 102 comments
Categories: accountability, election 2017, labour, national, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, winston peters - Tags: , , , , ,

National have been a lousy government. They have enriched the rich and impoverished the poor. They have inflated a housing bubble and done nothing for the homeless. They have let the environment degrade and made a mockery of our global warming commitments. They have let social institutions degrade, along with practical services like health and education. They have engaged in dirty politics in blatant lies. And for what? What will they be remembered for? Oh they “got us through the financial crisis” – yeah just like every other country on the planet (and it was our slowest ever recovery from a recession). They “got us through the Christchurch earthquakes” – yeah ask some people who live in Christchurch about that.

What National are “brilliant” at is opposition. They poll and focus group relentlessly, they have heaps of money, they attack like rabid rats in a sack. They have essentially spent the last nine years running opposition against Labour. They have been very successful at this, witness Labour’s long poll doldrums, and the fact that most of the “reasons” for those doldrums are memes of the Nats making. When I say “brilliant” at opposition, the quote marks are because it’s only brilliant if you accept that tactics like dirty politics and outright lies are acceptable, that the ends of power justify any means. That way lies political madness.

Well, tomorrow (probably) a decision will be confirmed about the next three years. Peters has the opportunity to put an end to this useless government (and turn National into “the opposition from hell”). I think he’s going to ’96 us, but I’d be happy to be proved wrong.

102 comments on “Nats – lousy at government – “brilliant” at opposition ”

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  1. Smellpir 1
    15 October 2017 at 10:06 am

    Yes indeed Anthony!
    You might also add that they would enjoy the opportunities of opposition to avoid having to live up to those tiresome standards of MInisterial behaviour, to avoid having to have their Prime Minister constantly excuse their marginally corrupt behaviour, and, in opposition, to get on with the true meaning of their political calling: using their political position to further business networking opportunities…

  2. red-blooded 2
    15 October 2017 at 10:39 am

    Plus, they’d have a coordinated attack plan. Unlike previous MMP oppositions, there’d be just one caucus, working together. (I’m counting Seymour as a Nat for obvious reasons. In fact, he’d be useful in a way – being able to put up the most outrageous attack lines.) They’d be looking for blood. And I don’t think they’d self destruct while changing leaders, either. They’d know that nearly alf of NZ endorsed them, so they’d still fell pretty damn confident.

    I’m afraid I agree that another term with the Nats is looking likely (I’ve shifted and swayed about this, but that’s the way I’m seeing it at the moment). If that is the outcome, then we need to see Labour and the Greens working closely together. Ardern will have time to further mature in the role as leader and the Greens will be able to bring in their new female co-leader and have her settle into the role before the next election. It’ll be a challenge being a bit more aggressive as an opposition (remember, Winston won’t be there to fill this role) without getting down and dirty. They’ll be bloody disappointed not to be governing, but they’ll also be buoyed (Labour) and relieved (Greens) by the recent election results and know that they’re likely to make it next time. The big challenge remains – attract new voters, rather than just pulling between Labour and Greens. Presumably, some NZF voters will be looking around, and surely there’ll be some that’ve voted Nat who finally start to see the reality of what’s been happening to their country under their supposed stewardship.

    • Carolyn_nth 2.1
      15 October 2017 at 10:52 am

      I do think the Nats in opposition will continue with the focus group fuelled dirty attack politics.

      However, I don’t really buy Emma Espiner’s line about the Nats likely being the opposition from hell because there will be 56 of them, and they will be united.

      In the last government, after the 2014 election, the Nats had 60 seats, and 64 with 2 Maori, 1 ACT, and 1 UF seat. Labour, GP and NZF betwenthem had 57 seats – so a bit of an overhang.

      Essentially the Nat-Seymour opposition would also be 57 seats, with Lab-GP-NZF having 63. Not that much difference in the balance. Also, in the House, Nats in opposition wouldn’t have a very friendly (Carter) speaker.

      I would think Nats going into opposition would result in some fracturing – between the more urban neoliberals, and the more rural old style conservatives. And neoliberalism internationally seems to be on the wane. English would no longer be leader, and the dirty politics smear machine run from the PM’s office has taking a big hit.

      There was a certain amount of coordination in opposition between Lab, the GP and NZF during the last term

      Nevertheless, a Lab-NZF-GP government would face enormous challenges, and it might be best to allow the Nats to be more openly fractured with the advent of a Nat-NF government.

      • Incognito 2.1.1
        15 October 2017 at 12:22 pm

        I would think Nats going into opposition would result in some fracturing

        Exactly my thoughts as well. Their instinct is to compete, which is hard if you just have your wings clipped and your nails cut. They will find it hard to re-focus and re-group and the leadership style of Bill English will make it worse as he’ll create an internal power vacuum and I don’t think internal party discipline is as strong as some like to think.

        If National indeed ends up in opposition it will be an ideal opportunity for new right and centre-right parties to form and get ready for the next election, assuming it’ll be 2020.

      • AB 2.1.2
        15 October 2017 at 12:32 pm

        It’s possible that the Nats in opposition might lose their composure and totally disgrace themselves in some form of ugly over-reach.
        “Personal responsibility for others, endless indulgence for ourselves” is after all their unspoken motto.
        It would be a joy to watch – though they would probably not be held to account for it by the media.

        • Incognito 2.1.2.1
          15 October 2017 at 12:37 pm

          We need a properly functioning Opposition regardless of who’s in Government. Otherwise it becomes more like FPP and power concentrates too much on one side. Haven’t we experienced this issue over the last 9 long years??

    • Anne 2.2
      15 October 2017 at 11:00 am

      Yes, red blooded I agree with your view. I’ve been psyching myself for further disappointment (as if we haven’t had more than our fair share in the past decade) but there’s no reason why it can’t be the strongest Opposition since 2008 given the huge gains in talent and numbers.

      My biggest fear is Labour will continue to indulge in ‘pc’ rhetoric which, at least in part, is responsible for so many voters viewing them as weak. There is nothing wrong in applying aggressive tactics and language where it is appropriate, and there is much about the Nats mou where it is indeed appropriate.

      • marty mars 2.2.1
        15 October 2017 at 11:10 am

        An angry Jacinda would be a deep cut for those she is angry with. Best to hold that until it can really be used to good effect. Nothing to stop some troops getting worked up about stuff though. Davis is going to be good at that – has got a good disgusted barely holding his anger in look imo.

        I just can’t see Winnie working with the greens so I’m calling a gnat dancing partner and I hope I’m wrong – gonna be funny watching bill and Winnie trying to lead the dance and stepping on each others feet.

        • Andrea 2.2.1.1
          15 October 2017 at 4:21 pm

          Never mind who leads the conga line: who’s flat-footing behind and honing the stiletto?

          Mr Peters probably has a rear-vision mirror to keep an eye on his short line – and someone reliable at the rear.

          How do you keep an eye on a wavery line of 56? How many mutts does Bill have so he can yell, ‘Git in behind!’ and be obeyed?

          For National: three years of freedom and safety in which to deliver payback and get a new lie ready for the aggrieved part of the electorate.

          Put on those blue suede shoes, Bill – and dance. For a little while.

    • cleangreen 2.3
      15 October 2017 at 11:12 am

      Here is a taste of the kind of “bias” the National opposition will run;

      Today 15/10/17 Q+A did a crap job with this political subject today – shame on them.
      Not worth a watch.

      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a

      Corrin Dann was flying the blue flag wildly and anchor Greg Boyes was pathetic with his loaded “National is right” questions, making the whole presentation become so unbalanced.

      The whole thing was capped off with the blue flag standard bearer Fran O’Sullivan was disgustingly proud to show her ‘bias’ toward the National Party with a solid ‘long served stable policy’.

      We hope Winston’s new Media broadcast policy rids all these national cling-on’s for good later this year, it can’t come soon enough as this is the worst example of MSM I have ever witnessed on public media, so when National is in opposition we need to rid this false narative from our public media.

      Even Radio NZ did much better than this and is much fairer at expaning the truth.

      • Wayne 2.3.1
        15 October 2017 at 12:17 pm

        You may have noticed that Q & A tends to have a commentator from the left and right, and usually a neutral mid person. Same today.

        For a show that has to appeal across the board that seems perfectly reasonable.

        Nevertheless I agree Q & A was a bit ho hum today. I quickly stopped watching. I guess all the possible speculation has been done, and we the public, the media, in fact every one other than Winston is just in “wait and see” mode.

        • Once was Tim 2.3.1.1
          15 October 2017 at 12:33 pm

          ….. “I quickly stopped watching.” Because I wasn’t on it
          FIFY

        • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1.2
          15 October 2017 at 12:58 pm

          You may have noticed that Q & A tends to have a commentator from the left and right, and usually a neutral mid person.

          No, can’t say I have. All the times I’ve watched it it’s been one commenter from the right-wing, one from the radical right-wing and a National biased host.

          • tracey 2.3.1.2.1
            15 October 2017 at 2:39 pm

            Wayne thinks Josie Pagani is ideologically Left even though she has views that fit to the right of Muldoons govt.

            • Incognito 2.3.1.2.1.1
              15 October 2017 at 3:29 pm

              I’d like to speculate that Josie Pagani herself thinks she’s ideologically Left.

              Personally, I don’t give a hoot (oops) about those labels and as far as I am concerned they can invite a Platypus as commentator as long as it lifts the quality of ‘debate’. At least, it would make for more interesting viewing then the current talking fossils and atavisms on display…

              Those who can, do; those who can’t (anymore) go on TV/Radio panels or become consultants/lobbyists or columnists for the NZ Herald. Those navel-gazing backward-looking nit-picking ‘commentators’ need to be replaced with people with new & fresh ideas who ideally are not affiliated with any (existing) political parties. Just my 2 cents.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                15 October 2017 at 9:31 pm

                Personally, I don’t give a hoot (oops) about those labels and as far as I am concerned they can invite a Platypus as commentator as long as it lifts the quality of ‘debate’. At least, it would make for more interesting viewing then the current talking fossils and atavisms on display…

                I got a turtle floating peacefully down Henderson Creek.

                Those who can, do; those who can’t (anymore) go on TV/Radio panels or become consultants/lobbyists or columnists for the NZ Herald.

                That assumes that those who can’t (anymore) ever could.

            • Wayne 2.3.1.2.1.2
              15 October 2017 at 6:41 pm

              Tracey,

              I am not that blind to nuance.

              The Panel I was on had John Tamihere for the left and he fulfilled that since he was basically advocating Labour. Josie Pagani was somewhere in the middle (she seems to be mostly in the right part of Labour, but on Q&A she really was in the middle). I am obviously from the right (I personally would say I am centre-right and compared to many National MP’s I am).

              I appreciate that John is also in the right of Labour, but on Q&A he was starchily advocating the overall Labour message.

          • Heather 2.3.1.2.2
            15 October 2017 at 10:22 pm

            Agreed

        • cleangreen 2.3.1.3
          15 October 2017 at 6:59 pm

          Wayne,

          What we saw was only one advancing the left and three on the right so this was very unbalanced today more than normally we see.

          Were they wanting to jolt NZF board right?

        • cleangreen 2.3.1.4
          15 October 2017 at 7:34 pm

          Wayne your Governmment left us this?????

          https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/starting-smell-bit-like-2007-anz-economist-warns-next-government-global-market?auto=5611013327001

          TV one 15th October 2017.

          ANZ said today; Trouble ahead.

          “A stark warning the global financial market is “starting to smell a bit like 2007” has come from an ANZ Economist who has shed light on what the next government could face.”

          Economist Sharon Zoller gives an insight into the global economy which the next government could face. And it might be bleak.
          Source: Q+A
          Speaking on TVNZ’s Q+A programme this morning, Sharon Zollner said when the next government is briefed on the state of New Zealand’s economy, she acknowledged there are “still plenty of tailwinds” to the so called ‘rock star economy’, but confessed “a number of those tailwinds seem to be running out of puff.”
          Advertisement
          When discussing potential shocks the new government could face, Ms Zollner said, “It’s fair to say that some things are starting to smell a bit like 2007 out there in global financial market land.
          “‘There’s been a bull market in everything,’ as the Economist called it.
          “And that’s completely understandable, because the price of borrowing money has been at record lows for a very long time, and so the price of anything you could borrow money to buy has been pushed up, whether that’s equities, commercial property, residential property, collector cars, fine art – you name it, it has all benefited from this extreme monetary policy stimulus.
          “Just not wages, not inflation.
          “It’s been a bizarre time, but it is probably fair to say that the quality of the growth that we’ve seen since 2008 has not been great. It’s been fuelled by debt and by leverage. And at some point, that debt has to be paid back.”
          Fuelling concern for the future of the New Zealand economy is the Auckland housing market.
          “Our major vulnerability, I’d say, is Auckland house prices – how stretched they are. And also consumer debt, mostly mortgage debt, is now at a record high relative to income.”

          • tracey 2.3.1.4.1
            15 October 2017 at 7:42 pm

            Note he ignores facts or questions which will show up his one sided world view. Like the IMF report. Those left wing communist bastards.

      • Grantoc 2.3.2
        16 October 2017 at 10:28 am

        I take it from your comments clean green that you don’t believe in freedom of the press unless it espouses your views?

        Freedom of the press is a fundamental democratic principle.

        I notice that you endlessly attack National for undermining democracy, in your opinion. But apparently its ok for you to undermine democracy when it suits you.

  3. weka 3
    15 October 2017 at 10:45 am

    Tomorrow? I thought it wasn’t going to be until later in the week (by Friday).

    • red-blooded 3.1
      15 October 2017 at 11:06 am

      It’s all pretty vague – tomorrow at the soonest, Friday at the latest. I’m pretty sure we’ve been told the NZF Board are meeting tomorrow.

  4. Quokka 4
    15 October 2017 at 11:09 am

    Come on Winston, all this foreplay is *killing* me !

    What is a small Australian marsupial or wallaby, Setonix brachyurus (quokka) – to do ?

    Life is short at the best of times..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quokka

    If you don’t hurry up mate, I’ll emigrate .. again !

    news.nationalgeographic.com/…/150306-quokkas-selfies-animals-science- photography-australia/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=178BWFbldCY
    mentalfloss.com/article/…/6-things-know-about-super-cute-quokka

    .. to the land of Pauline, and Malcolm, and terrible icecream – aarrgghh ..

    Regards, Quokka.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVnd7nmE-MA .

    • Carolyn_nth 4.1
      15 October 2017 at 11:15 am

      It’s not all down to Peters. A democratic process requires negotiation. And it needs a bit of time to be done well. It’s hardly been very long at all, compared with overseas governments requiring coalitions.

      The problem is too many in the mainstream media have been cheer-leading first past the post style horse-race politics – priming everyone to expect an announcement of winners on election day, or soon thereafter. It ain’t reality TV. This is democracy in action.

    • tracey 4.2
      15 October 2017 at 2:40 pm

      By jove I think you have stumbled on to the reason why so many men are haiting the wait… it is lije foreplay to them and they would always rather skip foreplay.

  5. Antoine 5
    15 October 2017 at 11:29 am

    > I think he’s going to ’96 us

    [scratches head] What is this, an upside down 69? What a horrible thought

    A.

  6. Quokka 6
    15 October 2017 at 11:32 am

    At first it was 3 days, then 10 .. we (the demos, the people, the electorate) deserve an explanation.
    Winston assured us it would take only two or three days. What line is Bill running these days ?

  7. cleangreen 7
    15 October 2017 at 11:35 am

    Quokka,

    Chill out!!!!

    You seem to have swallowed the MSM crap who set-up the natative that we needed a ‘quick result’

    Why I ask, while the country is now running just fine with out any politician getting in our faces telling us yet again what to think.

    Shit if we dont have a governmnent till after xmas I am fine with that.

    We are living in a MMP envionment where every party gets to decide what the Government is to look like and what policies we need to move the country forward again.

    Keep cool and let these politicians begin their work to thrash out the best deal for us all otherwise you may not like what you get.

    Meanwhile watch this show that is well worth listening to.

    The upshot concenus was that the final process of choosing a Government could well take much longer as Winston was covering all his responsibilities well but they agreed that the process should not be expected to be finalised in one week rather they feel it may be likely to be finalised by another three weeks.

    It was made clear that the whole process along all parties must be made carefully and needs time to be done correctly.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018617899/political-panel-on-the-constitution-and-the-hiatus

    Radio NZ Sunday 15th October 2017.

    Political panel on the constitution and the hiatus
    From Sunday Morning, 33 minutes ago
    Share this

    Listen
    The political hiatus is almost over with Winston Peters due to meet his board on Monday. Otago Law Professor Andrew Geddis and Associate Professor Jennifer Curtin from the School of Politics and International relations at the University of Auckland discuss the limbo and why it’s not such a bad thing.

  8. Wayne 8
    15 October 2017 at 12:11 pm

    Yea, such a lousy government that they have us near the top of the OECD stakes in terms of growth, levels of employment, income growth, repaying debt.

    Like this is all so easy to do that even an idiot can manage it. I guess it just means most OECD nations are governed by even bigger idiots that New Zealand.

  9. David Mac 9
    15 October 2017 at 12:25 pm

    After his decades of intimacy Winston would be more au fait with the machinations of popular media than most people. His flippant and often humorous dealings with them borders on scorn.

    It’s hard to imagine Monday’s NZ1st board meeting being much more than the rubber stamping of Winston’s wishes. I feel the political commentators’ editorial speculation will have next to no effect on his negotiation and decision making processes. The Nat/NZ1st outcome speculators are writing for people that have no part in the decision, Winston won’t have a bar of their clap-trap factory, he’s got their number.

    He will be thinking about aspects of his decision that have had little exposure in the MSM, like the history of National’s partners disappearing up their own bottoms. Winston has almost made a game of stretching his decision out in the past. His previous posturing began to hurt his position. He’ll be aware of NZ’s desire to see the King-maker show pony sidelined and the job at hand well managed in a timely fashion.

    Yep, National will be a strong opposition. Ruthless cohesive plan coupled to a deeply researched handle on ‘What people want.’

  10. Skinny 10
    15 October 2017 at 12:30 pm

    I see the rightwing NZH are going all out today Heather the lightweight feather duster with a liar, liar, pants on fire puff piece against Peters.

    And Breaking ‘Fake News’ Leak by Clare don’t care about making shit up. A Greens position they have held well before the election. One that any mug can figure they will be talking about with Labour. Of course the b grade media hack chose it because NZ First has a different position to the Greens.

    • Wensleydale 10.1
      15 October 2017 at 12:39 pm

      Granny Herald should really be in the toilet paper section of the local superette. Although, given that it’s so full of shit already, I’d question its absorbency.

      • cleangreen 10.1.1
        16 October 2017 at 7:23 am

        “Although, given that it’s so full of shit (NZ Herald) already, I’d question its absorbency.”

        Brillliance by Wensleydale. 1000000% – I laughted so hard. – Thanks for this.

    • Brian Tregaskin 10.2
      15 October 2017 at 2:54 pm

      Im surprised Sunday Star Times never went all out today.
      Sunday Star Times Sept 24th day after election issue was a “demand issue” demanding NZF go with National…..but todays issue not a peep—very very surprising.

      i think conventional wisdom says NZF is going to do a 1996 and we will see a lot of unhappy , embarrassed; guilty looking (loss of mojo on their faces ) NZF MPs turn up at parliament after making that decision. (Watch the TV one news footage from 1996 and you will see exactly that look on day 1 after the decision)

      unconventional wisdom:-
      But what if , just imagine if NZF decided to go with labour /greens it would be awesome ; coup of the century ; the greatest comeback story ever ….in New Zealand history
      We will have a new “beaming with pride” government turn up on day 1 in contrast to what i described earlier .
      This is NZFs “rumble in the jungle” –History is the making ;great mana awaits for them ,if they do the right thing. 🙂

  11. Quokka 11
    15 October 2017 at 12:41 pm

    “.. after xmas ? What if there is a swift decisive Korean war because someone misunderstood Trump ?

    Generational change in Korea and the Pacific opens the possibility of new initiatives and a better understanding of the past.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/…/incredible-moment-rare-australian-quokka-9920442

  12. adam 12
    15 October 2017 at 12:43 pm

    But Anthony you forgot Gay marriage – look how progressive they are. And the 35 year or 40 plans they have in place. Stalin himself could not have done better.

    Who needs to do anything, when you can promise stuff in future land, and the public lap it up.

  13. Draco T Bastard 13
    15 October 2017 at 12:51 pm

    Well, tomorrow (probably) a decision will be confirmed about the next three years. Peters has the opportunity to put an end to this useless government (and turn National into “the opposition from hell”). I think he’s going to ’96 us, but I’d be happy to be proved wrong.

    And if he does ’96 us then it may actually be the best thing to happen as the shit storm that National has managed to put off for the last nine years comes home to them. If NZ1st are part of that then it’s going to hit them as well and they may not recover – ever.

    The flip side of that is that if Labour are in government then that shit storm is still going to hit and National are going to try and blame Labour for it even though it was their policies that caused it.

    None of the problems that caused the GFC have been addressed and that’s especially true in NZ. The faults are still there and so’s the pressure and something has to give.

    • In Vino 13.1
      15 October 2017 at 9:25 pm

      I wonder if you are being over-optimistic. If the economic shit hits the fan, the MSM will spin it the same way as last time: ‘terrible crisis hits NZ because of world crisis outside our control, but our wise Gvt. handles economy skilfully and will make the best of it. Not like the parties on the Left who have no idea about economics…’
      They will spin it the same way again, with the same depressing result. The majority will suck it in.

      • Draco T Bastard 13.1.1
        15 October 2017 at 9:39 pm

        They will spin it the same way again, with the same depressing result. The majority will suck it in.

        Possibly or people really are getting sick of the BS that the MSM and National have been feeding us for the last few years and rebel.

  14. Adrian 14
    15 October 2017 at 2:22 pm

    Where’s Billy?
    The invisible man has had the wink and is flat out burning, shredding and deleting everything possible.
    He needed to win to keep the lid on all the underhand deals; Barclay, Oravida pipelines, Saudi dairy farms, Jiang Lang, 2.5mill of Chinese donations from Beijing channelled through Auckland, the list goes on ad infinitum.

  15. tracey 15
    15 October 2017 at 2:45 pm

    Parts of this article put me in mind of Steven Joyce and John Key’s National government.

    ” was always his tin pot populism, speaking to people’s economic anxiety while doing everything possible to screw them over. It’s a testament to his cult of personality that he even retains the little popularity he has.  ”

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/14/trumps-biggest-enemy-isnt-the-media-its-poor-people?CMP=fb_gu

    • Draco T Bastard 15.1
      15 October 2017 at 4:23 pm

      The national Republican party is the plutocrat party. Its entire intellectual foundation rests on the assumption that the poorest and weakest deserve to suffer.

      Sounds like National.

      The greatest corrective to Obamacare, a public option, died during negotiations because insurance companies with plenty of clout in a Democratic Congress insisted they shouldn’t have to compete with a cheaper, government-run plan.

      And that sounds like Labour and the usual whinge from the capitalists that they can’t actually compete with government.

  16. Ad 16
    15 October 2017 at 9:00 pm

    If National get in this time with NZF, they will get a legacy over 12 years that includes reasonably useful things and the report card would be ok in many areas.

    They also get multiple billions of dollars in government budget surplus just for passing Go this time, so they have plenty to prop up social services and new tax policies, and soften the economic downturn that is gradually arriving.

    The slowdown is, compared to all other downturns we have had, the softest of soft landings, and the surplus will be deployed for that, as it should.

    They will also be tied to a coalition partner with specific economic deliverables that appear very like the left side of the Labour Party. So there is real risk to Labour there.

    Anthony it is foolish to write them off.

    • BM 16.1
      15 October 2017 at 9:08 pm

      There won’t be a fourth term.

      Peters is going Labour/ Greens and it’s going to be a hell of a wakeup call for all those sleepy hobbits out there.

      They’ll get one term and it’s going to be chaos if you’ve got a large mortgage or just financially extended you can kiss your arse goodbye, the end times have come.

      • marty mars 16.1.1
        15 October 2017 at 9:20 pm

        All that from Jacinda’s wink.

        For a lot of people the end times have been around for a while.

        • BM 16.1.1.1
          15 October 2017 at 9:32 pm

          This has been obvious for quite a while, she just let the cat out of the bag.

          Don’t think Peters will be very happy though, just demonstrates once again what an untrustworthy weasel he is.

          The board makes the final decision, whatever Winston you lying old arsehole 🙄 why he feels the need to fuck with everyone I don’t know.

          Small man syndrome?

          • marty mars 16.1.1.1.1
            15 October 2017 at 9:42 pm

            The squeals if that happened will be funny. Man the moaning and outrage will blow a few righties foo foo valves àhhh i’m just going to day dream about that a bit like winning lotto. Thanks bm been a challenging day on here good to finish with some funny stuff.

            Edit – he seems normalish size to me, he’s just Winnie.

            • BM 16.1.1.1.1.1
              15 October 2017 at 9:50 pm

              You’ll find most of the more politically attuned righties will be in a position to weather any sort of financial storm Lab?Green/NZ First government conjures up.

              If anything the market is in drastic need for correction, everything is grossly overvalued there’s going to be some tremendous buying opportunities over the next three years.

              I congratulate labour and the Greens for taking the role of fall guys in all of this, it’s a thankless task but someone has to do it.

              Thanks, guys.

              • marty mars …
                15 October 2017 at 9:55 pm

                Onya, credit where due – often courage isnt noted by opponents so good on ya for fronting up early and thanking the left for their outstanding courage.

      • Stuart Munro 16.1.2
        15 October 2017 at 9:22 pm

        Meh – interest rates will go up whoever’s in government.

        A lot of Gnat cronies will be puckering up though – jail for corruption and tax on dodgy trusts – a lot of foreign sleaze will move their ill-gotten money to some other third-rate pest-hole.

        • BM 16.1.2.1
          15 October 2017 at 9:28 pm

          There’s currently around quarter trillion dollars in home mortgages in NZ at present.

          If interest rates go up to 10 % that will take around 10 billion dollars out of the NZ economy, the flow on effects from that will be pretty rugged.

          I’ve got to hand it to Labour I admire them for being the ones to stick a bullseye on their foreheads, a great a noble sacrifice, shame no one’s going to thank them for it.

      • cleangreen 16.1.3
        16 October 2017 at 7:29 am

        BM = troll watch detection = National scare brigade

  17. SMILIN 17
    16 October 2017 at 5:46 pm

    Well written leaving no doubt about the last 9 yrs
    Change will be hard work but better than funding another three years of National

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