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Open mike 17/07/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 17th, 2015 - 186 comments
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186 comments on “Open mike 17/07/2015 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    17 July 2015 at 6:30 am

    New Zealand dollar in free fall.
    Milk prices in free fall.
    Private and public debt on the increase.
    An economy based on real estate, immigration and dairy prices tottering on the brink of collapse.

    When are the media (and New Zealanders) going to start questioning the financial management of this appalling government ?

    • Paul 1.1
      17 July 2015 at 7:17 am

      And how does the media let them get away with comments like .’we’re optimistic about the futures.’

      • Sabine 1.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 7:46 am

        because they are the Kiwis that will sell their properties and businesses to the higher bidder and move elsewhere.

        simple as that.
        its only the poor schmuck that will get to stay behind in a ditch or under a bridge.
        But lets remember, and this is most important, That Labour does it too.

    • Clean_power 1.2
      17 July 2015 at 8:11 am

      It seems you enjoy putting New Zealand down. What’s wrong with ya?

      • Paul 1.2.1
        17 July 2015 at 8:22 am

        zzzzzzzzzzzz

      • Puckish Rogue 1.2.2
        17 July 2015 at 8:51 am

        Paul is a [deleted. Unjustified, unnecessary and likely to start a flame war – MS]

        • Paul 1.2.2.1
          17 July 2015 at 8:57 am

          You don’t like people who challenge your miserable behaviour on this site, do you pr?

          • Puckish Rogue 1.2.2.1.1
            17 July 2015 at 8:59 am

            Its funny but I was about to say the exact same thing to you

            • Paul 1.2.2.1.1.1
              17 July 2015 at 9:07 am

              How about you try posting some opinions that put forward your vision and ‘aspirations’ for New Zealand rather than the carping, snide, petty and puerile comments we have got to know you for?

              Is that within your remit ? Or are you told to simply come here to derail?

              How about commenting on the state of NZ dollar and milk prices and your solutions rather than making ad hominem comments ?

              • Puckish Rogue …
                17 July 2015 at 9:30 am

                My opinion is thus, the lowering of the dollar while not good for exporting is good for manufactoring

                http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/70297368/canterbury-manufacturers-relieved-at-a-falling-dollar

                Milk prices are cyclical, there’ll be raises and falls and if you look the industry over the last few decades you’ll see this is nothing new

                Labours cynical ploy at vilifying people with chinese names is, in the long run, a smart play because Labour know that when it comes down to it WinstonFirst will go with National rather then Labour so stealing votes of Winstonfirst with anti-asian rhetoric won’t hurt them at all and any Labour voters disgusted with this ploy will probably just go to the Greens

                Inflation is virtually nothing so prices for consumables are good and mortgage rates are fantastics

                http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/economic_indicators/CPI_inflation/ConsumersPriceIndex_MRJun15qtr.aspx

                So, quite frankly, NZ is in a good place and all the impotent left can do is try to manufacture lies which the voting public of NZ see right through

                • Paul …
                  17 July 2015 at 9:46 am

                  1. Do you not think that the present global dairy milk glut is something new? These articles would suggest this is the case and that it could last for quite a long time. With farming debt huge thanks to conversions to dairy and intensification, any long slump will see the fire sale of farms. And much of this will be to overseas interests.

                  http://www.wsj.com/articles/global-milk-glut-is-udder-misery-for-new-zealand-farmers-1418317202
                  http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2015/1/12/china/will-milk-be-next-commodity-turn-sour
                  http://www.china.org.cn/world/Off_the_Wire/2015-04/30/content_35462532.htm

                  2. I agree a lower dollar is good for manufacturing. Sadly we don’t have as much of it as we did before the neoliberal experiment started in the 1980s, but nevertheless, a lower dollar means exporters can compete better. There is one downside to a lower dollar. Higher fuel prices which will impact on the costs of I everything transported by truck in this country. So people’s shopping baskets will cost more.

                  Had we diversified our economy more, the problem of a dairy slump would not have been so severe.
                  Had we placed more emphasis on renewable energy and a more progressive transport policy, the price of fuel would not affect us so much.

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    17 July 2015 at 9:51 am

                    Fuel prices are fine and if the diary farmers can’t run their businesses effectively then they need to look at what they’re doing

                    • Paul …
                      17 July 2015 at 9:53 am

                      I give up.

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      17 July 2015 at 9:59 am

                      Seriously I don’t have much time for farmers, farming may be the backbone of NZ but farmers arn’t.

                      Inherited wealth rarely does anyone anygood and farmers are proof of that

                    • millsy …
                      17 July 2015 at 10:09 am

                      Most farmers outsource the risk to sharemilkers, herd managers and contract milkers, so they are more or less insulated from anything that happens. If the worst comes to the worst, they can sell up and walk away.

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      17 July 2015 at 10:30 am

                      Exactly, farmers (most not all of course) crying poverty and simply crocodile tears

                    • Ffloyd …
                      17 July 2015 at 10:31 pm

                      Pr. What’s a diary farmer?… If National can’t run a country properly they need to look at what they’re doing! We are in free fall!

        • adam 1.2.2.2
          17 July 2015 at 11:41 am

          To late MS – but thanks for trying – we got a flame war.

      • Weepus beard 1.2.3
        17 July 2015 at 9:12 am

        Paul is a mine canary and New Zealand is being run like Pike River.

        • mickysavage 1.2.3.1
          17 July 2015 at 7:36 pm

          Yep Paul is very good at identifying important stories and trends. No wonder the right attack him.

          • Weepus beard 1.2.3.1.1
            17 July 2015 at 7:43 pm

            Agreed, and has a lot of energy as well.

            I’d like to acknowledge Paul’s contribution over the time I have visited. I always feel stronger and more prepared to try make a difference after reading his comments.

            • Anne 1.2.3.1.1.1
              17 July 2015 at 7:50 pm

              I don’t know how he does it. I’ve come to the conclusion he has several brains all parked in different places.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.4
        17 July 2015 at 9:23 am

        It seems you, along with this government, enjoy destroying NZ through the use of outdated policies that have been proven conclusively (The Great Depression, The GFC, every recession in between and human induced climate change) not to work.

    • Lanthanide 1.3
      17 July 2015 at 9:13 am

      John Key did promise we were “on the cusp of something special”.

  2. Kiwiri 2
    17 July 2015 at 6:50 am

    To my friends who are involved with the celebrations:

    Happy Eyd-e Fetr or Eid al-Fitr 🙂

  3. Paul 3
    17 July 2015 at 7:23 am

    Stephen Joyce on Radio New Zealand mouthing platitudes….”cycles, been through this before, an unusual year, not looking for handouts….blahblahblah….”
    No ideas, no solutions. A government bereft of ideas.
    Even Mr Fix it can’t fix this mess his government is in.

  4. Paul 4
    17 July 2015 at 7:32 am

    Sam Lotu-Iiga is ‘disappointed’ with Serco after online videos are released of fighting within Mt Eden prison.
    Yet he defends Serco’s governance of Mt Eden prison by gibbering on about ‘league tables, highest performing prison in the country, it’s a remand prison, they uphold the highest standards, they are in the exceptional category.’

    It was like listening to an answer machine playing over and over again.
    Totally useless.

    Serco’s boss ( from Scotland) claims they are doing ‘a fantastic job’ , they ‘deliver a very, very good service at Mt Eden’ and that ‘they are the top of the table.’

    Another investigation, another review while the lame stream media fails to follow through on a story.

    • millsy 4.1
      17 July 2015 at 10:15 am

      Private prisons are bascially human flesh trading — no different to the slave trade really. A lot of people forget that in the 18th and 19th centuries they had private prisons as well — private companies also had the transportation contracts for inmates sent to Australia. These fights have a mandingo-ish air about them. Wouldnt be suprised if the guards put them up to it.

      • North 4.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 4:45 pm

        Consider the near incapacity of a mid-60s adult to stem tears on hearing this message delivered with resigned, traumatised eyes by an under 20 year old –

        “If I go back there I’m gonna HAVE to join up with one of them. They want me……”

        For many, many young guys the inevitable consequence of remand in Serco – within days of arrival, unconvicted, unsentenced, earmarked as a prospect, a conscript soldier of the future, by competing gangs. With absolutely no choice about joining/not joining. Oh but life always has hope ! Preferring one gang over another at least protects from the other gang. Fail to declare – daily brutality from all. No wonder Serco’s known as “The Jungle”.

        For those who might find it self-comforting to duck responsibility for the inhumanity daily brought down on boys like that in Serco, with the denial inherent in sniffy verbiage like – “Oh, manipulating I see…….” – “20 next birthday…….c’mon…….thats an adult” – “Tut tut tut…….bad choices bad choices !” – to people like that I would say with all the bitter disgust I can summon – “OK, I’m gonna put YOUR sons, YOUR grandsons in Serco for a month !”

        Without further they’d immediately understand. Tears ? They’d be screaming !

        I shouldn’t be harsh. These are the NZ resident replicants of the British investor class all those thousands of miles away. The ones who routinely know all they need to know by dint of their frequent walks not in the moccasins.

        Serco is actually a foremost disgrace of this nation’s many disgraces. It’s no wonder that amongst its ‘guests’ it’s unaffectionately coined “The Jungle”. Serco has a sign out front which in glorious PR verbosity conveys this tiding of successful aspiration – “average stay 23 days”. Yes, well it is a remand prison.

        Are you CERTAIN that 23 days (average) isn’t long enough…….Mr British Investor Replicant In NZ…….to fuck up, random that it’s irreversible, the psyche/mind/body of your sons, your grandsons ? You are silent Sir…….why pray ?

    • TE 4.2
      17 July 2015 at 11:03 am

      don’t forget they will be monitored to see how serco are following the rules and such, who by …. by serco of course.
      How can serco monitor their own company with honesty?

      Still serco bring out their rhetoric “we will deliver good service blah blah blah”
      Is Mt Eden run by a skeleton crew so serco’s shareholders get their moneys worth.?

      What about serco’s loud and proud staements we are COMMITTED to getting recidivism down to 25%.
      The list of their failing is world renown except apparently in NZ

      Sam Lotu-liga should grow a set and get some real investigation going on into this corrections fight club.

      FFS its a crock and National have opened the door to the “everyone else has a better way of ruling I mean running this country.”

  5. Observer (Tokoroa) 5
    17 July 2015 at 7:39 am

    To: Paul

    One of the problems is that we Kiwis do not even understand simple concepts such as advantage and disadvantage in currency.

    I have even been chided on this Standard Left /Green blog – for pointing out that $1.00 of New Zealand money will get you just $0.41 cents of British Pounds.

    This means that if a person from Britain using GBP currency, buys a $million house here, they will pay only $410,000. Whereas of course, a Kiwi using $NZD currency will pay the full $Million Dollar price.

    If the person were to buy two $Million homes in New Zealand, they would pay $820,000 British Pounds.

    Whereas a Kiwi using $NZD buying two $Million Dollar homes would pay $2, 000,000.

    The difference between $2, 000,000 and $820,000 is $1.18 million Dollars.
    Imagine if the same person bought ten NZ$ Million Dollar homes…

    • Paul 5.1
      17 July 2015 at 7:47 am

      There would be no problem if foreign speculators were not allowed to buy houses here.

      • JanMeyer 5.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 11:02 am

        Really? What is your evidence for this highly doubtful claim? Which real estate firm’s data are you relying on, Barfoot and Thompson’s or JamesLaw’s? The complete and utter failure to understand even the basics of how to analyse data and extrapolate robust and defendable conclusions from same by Twyford/Little and half the posters/commenters on this site beggars belief. Suggest you all take some serious time out and only re-enter the fray after several cups of tea. It’s all getting rather silly

  7. Barbara 7
    17 July 2015 at 9:23 am

    Have just heard a interesting interview with a spokesman for the farmers on Breakfast this morning. He was saying that it was disappointing that 500 workers had to be laid off, it was a knee jerk reaction to the falling prices and what management should have been doing (like the farmers I suspect) was put aside fat year by year for the lean times when they happened and not just sacrifice staff – he said it was not good for Fonterra to have staff too busy looking over their shoulders wondering when they were the next when they should be concentrating on growing the business – management should have been concentrating on working on value added commodities etc etc.

    Management can’t even promise there won’t be more workers laid off in the future – not good for management/farmers relationships in the future. I always felt this was going to happen – that the worm would turn. Just being down on the Viaduct Basin in their flash multi-million dollar building with too many chiefs on fat salaries – my old Dad always said spread your investment and not put too many apples in the one basket. Wonder what the management are going to come back and say on the counter attack. Bloody disgrace if you ask me.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.1
      17 July 2015 at 9:29 am

      Wonder what the management are going to come back and say on the counter attack.

      I’m wonder how much the management will pay themselves in bonuses this year.

      • Barbara 7.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 9:40 am

        Yes I agree – some of the top floor’s saleries are absurd let alone bonuses on top. But I think it is interesting that farmers could be turning against the company – I thought the top honcho was a Dutchman and I was always under the impression they drove a hard ship, surely he could have kept the saleries under check. The morale in the lower echelons must be terrible – what’s Humpty Mr Fixit going to say about all this I wonder and as always Key is sunning himself away from all this going down, doing only what teflon can do. Drama couldn’t be better and just as well as there is sweet ….. all on our TV these days.

        • Paul 7.1.1.1
          17 July 2015 at 9:51 am

          Just warbled on this morning on Morning Report.
          Platitudes like it’s a cycle….
          With friends like this, farmers must be thinking….

          • Gosman 7.1.1.1.1
            17 July 2015 at 10:18 am

            Why is it Government’s job to ensure a particular sector of the economy is receiving viable prices for what they produce?

            • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1.1.1
              17 July 2015 at 11:43 am

              Why is it you frame such stupid questions?

              If you don’t believe that Government should govern, don’t get involved in politics.

              • North …
                17 July 2015 at 10:35 pm

                Brilliant CV ! Gossy’ll be taking it out on every random unaccompanied canine that minding its own business trots on past his place. Run dog run ! CV’s fucked him off and poor duffer can’t help it.

          • Barbara 7.1.1.1.2
            17 July 2015 at 10:26 am

            Why am I not surprised Paul – what never ceases to amaze me is that there are so many citizens in NZ who just cannot see how useless this Govt. is and has been and still think they are managing the economy bla bla. The Govt were the creaters of Fonterra in the first place weren’t they? Is there something in the drinking water that is affecting Nat voters for goodness sake, that people can be so preoccupied and dense as to what is going on. Its soul destroying.

            • alwyn 7.1.1.1.2.1
              17 July 2015 at 11:17 am

              “The Govt were the creaters of Fonterra in the first place weren’t they?”

              Yes they were. The Commerce Commission of the time turned the idea down but the Government decided they knew better and went ahead with it.
              That was in October 2001 that Fonterra started. God, the politicians in the Government of the day must have been crazy, mustn’t they?
              Whoops. That wasn’t a National Government was it. It was the dopey lot on the other side who did it.

              Is there something in the drinking water that is affecting left voters for goodness sake, that they forget their history?

              • Puckish Rogue …
                17 July 2015 at 11:44 am

                Don’t forget David cunliffe had a part to play in the formation of fonterra as well, apparantly 🙂

              • vto …
                17 July 2015 at 11:49 am

                ha ha yes, but even funnier is that farmers jumped on it when they are supposed to be anything but left wing….

                why is that farmers in nz always act in a left wing way, such as establishing coops all over the place, yet talk in a right wing way? Don’t they know about these things? Maybe they would do better if their words matched their actions.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                17 July 2015 at 12:31 pm

                The big mistake that you’re making is thinking that the 5th Labour led government was left wing. It wasn’t. It may have been centrist than National but it still wasn’t of the Left.

                • alwyn …
                  17 July 2015 at 2:26 pm

                  I have never considered that the last Labour Government was “left wing”. They were the supreme pragmatists whose only interest was remaining in power.
                  The last Government we had who did things they believed to be necessary, without considering whether it would keep them in power was when Roger Douglas was the driving force in the Labour Government between the middle of1984 and the end of 1988.
                  What I was commenting on was Barbara’s apparent belief that it was the current, ie Key led Government, and National voters who are to blame for whatever Fonterra may be doing.
                  Barbara clearly doesn’t remember which Government it was that was in charge when Fonterra was created.

              • DoublePlusGood …
                17 July 2015 at 2:17 pm

                No, I have no problem blaming Labour for that balls-up.

      • aidan 7.1.2
        17 July 2015 at 11:33 am

        yup, there goes the fat

  8. North 8
    17 July 2015 at 10:12 am

    Good morning fellow Lefties.

    I spent 7 hours yesterday driving to and from visiting at that tomb of souls MECF-Serco in Mt Eden. That’s another story. I mention it only to explain how not until this morning did I see TRP’s post of yesterday – “An Open Letter To The Real Estate Whistleblower” – and comment between TRP and Tracey and others in the thread commencing with CV @ 4.1.1.1 My comment on that post earlier today is resubmitted here on OM in response to ridiculous and growing rancour in the debate. I’m motivated as a peacemaker here rather than as a muckraker, even if you’re left in no doubt as to my instant colours. Whether I succeed in that motivation is yours to choose – really only inviting everyone to pause for “a cup of tea……” so to speak.

    ” North…

    17 July 2015 at 8:53 am

    Tracey, no reply button to your comment timed 5.18 pm. Accordingly (and I don’t know where this comment will end up) I use the one on TRP’s comment of 2.06 pm –

    You say – “Grow up TRP. You tried to shut CV down.”

    What the hell then is the “Racist !” mantra levelled (in varying pitch) against others ? Forgive me the observation that it looks very much like a shutting-down device. Dependent on pitch it shapes also as a device for brutal humiliation.

    I have a mind’s eye list of the Morality-Day-Trippers at the top of which are BM and Fisiani obviously. Given their customary, boldly vaunted taste for any cruel ‘-ism’ one might identify, their credibility here is zero. I dismiss them. No apologies. Entirely meet. Their true home is WhaleOil.

    I cannot dismiss as moral thugs and arseholes you and CV and numerous others deservedly holding space on my similarly held second list – a list of decent, caring, philosophically mature, unafraid, morally consistent and resilient people who figure there after months, years of expressions which suggest innate possession of those qualities.

    Is my estimation of you and CV and others wrong ? Of course it’s not. That is exactly why, apart from my one angry excursion into ‘the feral’ in response to one commenter (that person whom when not invoking dismissive bullying against others I know to be) “decent, caring etc etc……” – that is why I have tried to be respectful. CV particularly comes to mind.

    Please contemplate how atrocious is the charge “Racist !” to those on my third list – people who are not in true character unlike you and CV and the many others on my second list. For my sins I include Twyford in that third list. To paint him a machiavellian amoral schemer as some have purported is fanciful frankly.

    For me the reflexive “Racist !” charge sits on a spectrum from careless indulgence to cheap disrespect to the feral. It is not OK to give over to any point on that spectrum the broad issue at hand, viz. the various but always linked facets of the exponential shutting out of stakeholders in this country.

    That broad issue is what has jointly exercised for so long the people on my second and third lists – this commonality might actually suggest an all-inclusive list.

    Surely, if we’re talking of essence, it’s highly improbable that a bunch of “Racists !” could have sat undetected for so long in the welcoming company of others on that all-inclusive list ? ”

    More tea anyone ?

  9. RedLogix 9
    17 July 2015 at 10:20 am

    I know we’ve done Greek to death – but this makes an interesting read:

    Without rehearsing 15 years of Greek controversy, let me just say that the country’s crisis is a collective responsibility of the creditors, the EMU elites, the Greek oligarchy and, ultimately, of a jejune Alexis Tsipras.
    The Troika bail-out in 2010 was intended to save the euro and European banks at a time when there were no defences against contagion. Greece was not saved. It was sacrificed. The roots of the “Greek Spring” can be traced to this original sin.
    The EMU creditors never acknowledged their own guilt. They never made an honest attempt to negotiate with Syriza, even on matters of common ground. They demanded that the austerity terms of the prior Memorandum be enforced to the letter, hiding behind Pharisaical talk of rules.
    Let us not forget that the European Central Bank brought about the final collapse by freezing emergency liquidity to the Greek banks, forcing Syriza to shut the lenders’ doors, impose capital controls and halt imports.
    It was a political decision – dressed up with technical flammery – and was arguably illegal. It is very hard to reconcile with the ECB’s treaty duty to uphold financial stability. One plain fact is clear: technocrats brought an elected government to its knees.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-business/greece-bailout-breaking-the-spell-for-europes-leftwing-parties-20150716-giddzu.html#ixzz3g5zC4lxj

    From a self-proclaimed conservative no less.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.1
      17 July 2015 at 11:06 am

      Greece, Europe, and the United States

      What will become of Europe? Clearly the hopes of the pro-European, reformist left are now over. That will leave the future in the hands of the anti-European parties, including UKIP, the National Front in France, and Golden Dawn in Greece. These are ugly, racist, xenophobic groups; Golden Dawn has proposed concentration camps for immigrants in its platform. The only counter, now, is for progressive and democratic forces to regroup behind the banner of national democratic restoration. Which means that the left in Europe will also now swing against the euro.

      Interestingly enough, Galbraith still seems to think that the US is a shining light of democracy.

      • RedLogix 9.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 11:16 am

        Exactly. Dark days for Europe ahead. Perhaps quite soon.

        This is the deepest stupidity of all – the EU was founded and largely supported by Socialist and left-wing parties seeking way to break Europe out an age-old destructive cycle of nationalistic rivalries and wars. And to provide an economic platform which might lend a counter-balance to the USA.

        The USA liberal establishment was happy to support the project as it gave a security buffer with the USSR.

        But in a fit of utter, blind, ideological stupidity the EU technocrats have severed off the very branch they were perched upon. No-one believes in them anymore.

        The EU is doomed. And there is no rule to say that what rises from the ashes will be better.

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1
          17 July 2015 at 11:51 am

          Fascinating to watch the US (through the IMF) try to sway the Eurogroup to its senses. Apparently the latest IMF document stating that Greece needed a 30 year repayment holiday was put in front of all assembled EU finance ministers last weekend.

          They ignored it.

          • vto 9.1.1.1.1
            17 July 2015 at 11:56 am

            Are the Germans simply reverting to form do you think?

            superior Aryans and all that horseshit…

          • Olwyn 9.1.1.1.2
            17 July 2015 at 12:31 pm

            People like you and RedLogix, being better versed in international affairs than I am, are no doubt better equipped than I am to comment on this, but it looks to me as if the US and the UK are on the one hand trying to shove neo-liberal economics down everyone’s throats, and on the other trying to get as many countries as possible onside so as to contain/threaten/separate the BRIC countries. However quite a few people have had a gutful of the harsh neo-lib formula and are getting harder to keep onside. So they may see the need to give some ground on the neo-lib front to keep Greece and other similarly placed countries within the EU.

      • RedLogix 9.1.2
        17 July 2015 at 1:05 pm

        Jeeze DtB … that is SO worth a read. And it’s Galbraith saying it. :very slow headshake:

  10. Morrissey 10
    17 July 2015 at 10:21 am

    Bernard Manning was damned for his racist taunts;
    So how does Jerry Seinfeld get away with it?
    Nine to Noon, Radio NZ National, Friday 17 July 2015

    This morning, Lynn Freeman interviewed one Jennifer Keishin Armstrong, a Seinfeld-worshipper who has written a book grandly titled Seinfeldia: The Secret World of the Show About Nothing That Changed Everything. It was interesting enough, with both women sharing affectionate memories of some of the features of the show, from Kramer’s brilliant physical comedy to the hilariously deranged “Soup Nazi”.

    But there’s more to Seinfeld than snappily written comedy. A lot of what Seinfeld gets up to is anything but funny. He has been, and continues to be, involved in some exceptionally nasty business. Sometimes this nastiness even found its way into the show itself. I sent Lynn Freeman a little reminder…..

    Jerry Seinfeld

    Dear Lynn,

    I am always concerned when I hear adulatory comments about Jerry Seinfeld. Yes, his show is well written and it is funny, but there was a darker and more sinister side: unlike the great comedians of the past, Seinfeld does not identify or empathise with the poor and downtrodden, he expresses contempt for them.

    In one infamous scene, Jerry says to Elaine, “Hey that’s life. Good-looking men have the same advantages. You don’t see any handsome homeless.”

    It’s perhaps not a coincidence that Seinfeld himself continues to express support for extreme right wing causes in the United States and Israel, most infamously on David Letterman’s show when he expressed his contempt for, and amusement at, the plight of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories.

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    • Lanthanide 10.1
      17 July 2015 at 11:07 am

      Seinfeld does not identify or empathise with the poor and downtrodden, he expresses contempt for them.

      In one infamous scene, Jerry says to Elaine, “Hey that’s life. Good-looking men have the same advantages. You don’t see any handsome homeless.”

      Your example is very poor, then, out of context. That doesn’t sound like is expressing contempt for homeless people; just acknowledging in a very glib and superficial way what anyone who has seen multiple homeless people would conclude.

      It’s like calling Labour pointing out that there is a disproportionate number of Chinese buyers of houses in NZ ‘racist’.

    • Skinny 10.2
      17 July 2015 at 12:25 pm

      It is a Jew Arab thing which has been going down for centuries. There are plenty of American Jews that kick the crap out of Palestinians.

      A couple of years ago a group of friends and I were at a bar, we started playing pool with a group from israel. Things cut up rough when one of them made a nasty remake about the Occupied Territories and Arabs. It become an all in brawl which was quite unsettling as 3 of their females were involved, extremely vicious they were with 1 punching and kicking a mate in the head after she decked him. When I saw this I remembered thinking these fuckers all do time in their army. After that I didn’t feel so bad cracking her over the head with a pool cue and laying into the rest, telling them to cut it out and clear off. They did but not before one of them smashed a bottle across a bounces jaw. It’s the only time I’ve hit a woman and thankfully the last.

      • Colonial Viper 10.2.1
        17 July 2015 at 3:51 pm

        Yeah, they are a very interesting population and psyche.

        • Morrissey 10.2.1.1
          17 July 2015 at 4:29 pm

          Their psyche is irrelevant. It’s their crimes that matter.

          • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1.1.1
            18 July 2015 at 5:47 pm

            Their crimes are the result of their psyche which is seems to be a result of their vicious culture.

      • Morrissey 10.2.2
        17 July 2015 at 4:02 pm

        Good Lord, Skinny, remind me not to accompany you to any bars in future!

        For the record, I have met one or two former Israeli soldiers, and they were very nice guys. One of them helped me fix my car, which had overheated.

        I know that many of them are racist and violent, but that’s a sine qua non of serving in the Occupied Territories. New Zealand soldiers behaved just as badly in Egypt and Palestine in World War I, and in Samoa in the 1920s. Let’s not forget that even the worst of the soldiers is like that only because they are placed there to do a job that a few corrupt and fanatical politicians have sent them there to do.

        • North 10.2.2.1
          17 July 2015 at 10:15 pm

          Morrissey, you put me in mind of the time 7 or more years ago while on the Auckland-North trip I picked up an obviously foreign hitch hiker – one can ‘tell’ somehow.

          Anyway, he was a conscript IDF reservist. Mid 20s. Recounted as a late-teens soldier in Tel Aviv or some other populous Israeli centre, patrolling with one other soldier. Completely randomly the other soldier was first to step up into a bus for the ‘terrorist check’.

          Boom ! Passengers died, as did the other soldier. This guy was injured quite seriously quite how I don’t now recall.

          You know, when that guy got out of my car my senses were all compassion. Me, one who’s wrecked dinner parties, weirdly had a furious go with the proprietor of a classy motel I stayed at in Ahipara (one night only – next morning was excruciating), suffered stern tickings-off from close friends re my unintelligible (to them) “Palestine stuff”. As (I hope) a very human being it was salutary to meet and talk with another human being, a tool of evil, who’d paid a personal price.

          That said, to the couch squatters of Khandallah (and seemingly damned near everywhere else in this ‘kind’ country), those who watch TV One’s coverage of the biennial fish-in-a-barrel killing-fest on Gaza and sighingly, mock-sagely remark – “Well…..they WILL keep on firing those rockets……” – no quarter from me for you bastards !

          • Chooky 10.2.2.1.1
            18 July 2015 at 4:45 pm

            lol…interesting conversation which i have only just read…just to add to it….we have a NZ artist friend ( who used to have a picture of Gaddaffi in his kitchen..he was an admirer) who picked a hitch hiker up at the bottom of the Takaka Hill on the Motueka side…turned out the hitch hiker was Israeli ….so they argued all the way up the Takaka Hill …at the top, unwisely the Israeli said that “Palestine is just a bunch of real estate for the pickings”…!

            …at which point our friend then biffed him out of the car and told him to go take a hike down the other side ….

            imo great that NZers feel passionately for the injustices and killings perpetuated against the Palestinians and the loss of their land of Palestine!

  11. Puckish Rogue 11
    17 July 2015 at 10:33 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11482300

    Probably more accurate then Labours stolen data

    • RedLogix 11.1
      17 July 2015 at 10:37 am

      And arguably makes matters worse.

      You’ve just presented evidence of one ethnic group representing 9% of the population buying 100% of real-estate currently on offer in Auckland.

      Whichever way you cut it – that has some ugly implications.

      • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 10:43 am

        Nope

        “Mr Law said all were either New Zealand citizens or permanent residents.”

        • RedLogix 11.1.1.1
          17 July 2015 at 10:55 am

          And your point is?

          • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1.1.1
            17 July 2015 at 11:04 am

            We’re all kiwis

            • RedLogix 11.1.1.1.1.1
              17 July 2015 at 11:09 am

              What – so why mention the ethnicity of these kiwi buyers in the article at all?

              • Puckish Rogue …
                17 July 2015 at 11:30 am

                I’m guessing its because some kiwis feel unfairly vilified by Labour and are attempting to redress the unfairness by pointing out whats really happening

                • RedLogix …
                  17 July 2015 at 11:47 am

                  And by logical extension it must be that suddenly none of the 91% of people in Auckland are at all interested in buying real-estate.

                  Good oh – problem solved. Can’t imagine what the fuss was all about.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.2
      17 July 2015 at 11:13 am

      Nope, it’ll be even less accurate as it only pertains to 23 sections and not all of Auckland.

      • RedLogix 11.2.1
        17 July 2015 at 11:17 am

        Of course – but lets not spoil PR’s little game here.

      • Puckish Rogue 11.2.2
        17 July 2015 at 11:32 am

        Wow less accurate than something the Labour party announces with great glee thats really inaccurate

        • Draco T Bastard 11.2.2.1
          17 July 2015 at 12:26 pm

          What the Labour Party released wasn’t as accurate as we’d like but it was accurate enough to show what’s happening. The BS you provided was, well, bullshit.

          I assume it’s something that C/T and National have come up with to try and spin the facts as they do when the facts don’t go their way.

          • The lost sheep 11.2.2.1.1
            17 July 2015 at 12:34 pm

            What the Labour Party released wasn’t as accurate as we’d like but it was accurate enough to show what’s happening.

            It was accurate? If so, can someone tell me how many of the buyers on the list were foreign nationals from places other than China?

              • The lost sheep …
                17 July 2015 at 1:11 pm

                Can Labour prove that any individual buyer is foreign? No. All we have is their last name.

                So no way of determining whether even the Chinese sounding names belong to Foreign nationals, let alone say anything about the 60% of non-Chinese names?

                So ‘accurate’ enough to back a cheap political shot or a racial prejudice, but not quite like the dictionary says huh?
                ” correct in all details; exact.”

                • Charles …
                  17 July 2015 at 2:13 pm

                  (You don’t need to see the data.)

                  We don’t need to see the data.

                  (This isn’t the data you’re looking for.)

                  This isn’t the data we’re looking for.

                  (Move along…)

                  Move along… Move along!

            • McFlock 11.2.2.1.1.2
              17 July 2015 at 12:51 pm

              lol
              How many days into it and you still haven’t bothered to read up on what you’re talking about?

              No surprises there.

              • The lost sheep …
                17 July 2015 at 1:21 pm

                I’ve read enough to know that this was an principally an attempt to win back a few votes from the xenophobes that Winston panders to.

                Either that or it was simply a continuation of the utter lack of commonsense political judgement Labour have been displaying for the last 9 years.

                Can’t imagine Helen Clark approving this kind of dumb shit.

                • Gangnam Style …
                  17 July 2015 at 2:33 pm

                  “wreckers & haters” she said.

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    17 July 2015 at 2:51 pm

                    Giving Dear Leader her dues she was a strong leader and I can respect that

                    • McFlock …
                      17 July 2015 at 3:22 pm

                      “Dear Leader“?
                      Yeah, life in NZ under Helen clark was totally like North Korea, you fuckwit.

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      17 July 2015 at 3:33 pm

                      Oh fuck off youself, how about you read some of the comments on here about what life is like under John Key and then come talk to me about hyperbole

                    • McFlock …
                      17 July 2015 at 3:50 pm

                      What, house prices and power bills aren’t through the roof, we haven’t got skyrocketing government debt, and public money wasn’t spent on the oravida tour or double-dipton’s mortgage? Let alone the fact that our PM is a bit weird about hair-pulling without permission.

                      Totally the same league as lightbulbs and showerheads.

                • McFlock …
                  17 July 2015 at 3:12 pm

                  Well, you’ve read enough to confirm your bias and stopped in case actual facts might start to contradict it.

                  • The lost sheep …
                    17 July 2015 at 4:33 pm

                    Now you have accepted such a low standard of data as a legitimate level of ‘proof’ on this occasion McFlock, I look forward to correcting you the next time you try to dismiss evidence of a similar standard supporting something you are not so keen on.

                    It won’t be long i’m picking…..

                    • McFlock …
                      17 July 2015 at 4:54 pm

                      I said it was proof? Of what?
                      Cite please.

                      It’s reasonably solid methodology, with some reasonable assumptions. And it strongly indicates that this is an area where we need a register. But “proof” is a strong word, even with single rather than double quotes.

                    • The lost sheep …
                      17 July 2015 at 6:01 pm

                      I believe that outside of formal disciplines, ‘proof’ is actually quite a soft and flexible concept. The evidence accepted as ‘proof’ of guilt by one jury might be completely rejected by another.

                      So your statement that the data satisfies you there are grounds for action would indicate that you feel something has been ‘proved’ to some extent?

                    • McFlock …
                      17 July 2015 at 6:21 pm

                      I seem to recall that the only further action I’ve recommended as a result of this research is a register of offshore owners so we have good data to work from.

                      Feel free to link to where I’ve said more than that.

                      So as it is, if someone else puts forward some reasonably solid data that produces counter-intuitive results, and says that this is ‘proof’ that we need further research, I’d probably be in general agreement that something needs to be looks into more closely.

                      So have fun “correcting” me to that level. Which seems a bit less dramatic than “Now you have accepted such a low standard of data as a legitimate level of ‘proof’ on this occasion McFlock, I look forward to correcting you the next time you try to dismiss evidence of a similar standard supporting something you are not so keen on.” I read that and it sounded to me like you’d caught me sayng that John Key was a good guy because he gave someone a couple of bottles of wine.

      • Thom Pietersen 11.2.3
        17 July 2015 at 3:15 pm

        And something that will not be easily solved, and I think we’ll have to live with – proxy agents. As long as real estate in Auckland goes up 15% pa and will be double in 10 years etc. etc. – You’d be mad not to put your money (if you have it – or your families) in that rather than the Chinese sharemarket, for example. Current capitalism as it stands with its fiat currency is broken – NZ is a good place to legally put your money into a tangible asset.

        How do we balance geopolitics and the current macroeconomic regime against having a fair inclusive society?

        Or do we just accept a new class system with all its glass ceilings?

        We can attempt to do something now or wait for a bloody good war or plague. Don’t think we’re better than history tells us.

    • Macro 11.3
      17 July 2015 at 4:46 pm

      Ever heard of proxy buyers?
      http://www.realestate.co.nz/about/glossary#p
      Used extensively by off shore purchasers to get around all manner of restrictions.
      That article just proves the point.

      • Macro 11.3.1
        17 July 2015 at 4:50 pm

        ooops see Thom beat me to it. That is the biggest threat. That article is just an attempted white-wash (if you will forgive the pun). But it it just raises the suspicions, and anger, further when one knows just what was going on there!

      • Chooky 11.3.2
        17 July 2015 at 7:24 pm

        yup shell companies within shell companies eg Chinese property devt company buying through a cover Aussie wine company

  12. McFlock 12
    17 July 2015 at 10:39 am

    so the day after it comes out that Serco’s prison is a venue for Fight Club, it turns out that parole and treatment reduces reoffending more than making prisoners serve a full term in the thunderdome. A full third less likely to reoffend.

    Garth McVictim is bravely refusing to let facts stand in the way of his income stream outrage.

  13. Tautoko Mangō Mata 13
    17 July 2015 at 11:07 am

    It is good to see that Labour are doing something for small business owners with regard to the way tax payments can be made.

    “At present, provisional tax rules require a business to estimate, in advance, its taxable profits for the year and pay tax in three large instalments over the year.

    “If they guess wrong, they can be faced with a big bill at the end of the year which can push a small business to the wall,” Mr Little said.

    “Under Labour’s proposal, businesses will have the option of choosing to pay their tax through regular instalments at a rate they can adjust. This means businesses can align their payments to suit their circumstances.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11482508
    This proposal makes a lot of sense to me and it will be interesting to see how small business owners respond to and contribute to the discussion. The myth that National is the go-to party for those in business has persisted far too long. Right wing lobby groups like NZ Initiative are happy to compromise worker safety in the pursuit of cost saving, but there ARE other ways of making life better for business owners without putting employees health and safety at risk,

    • Lanthanide 13.1
      17 July 2015 at 11:11 am

      Labour’s problem is that they’re not in government, so they can suggest any great-sounding policy without actually having to implement it, or even study how to implement it.

      It’s no secret that IRD’s systems are undergoing a massive re-development at the moment, precisely because they are so unwieldy to update to respond to new government policy.

      In other words, National may have already come up with plans on how to change provisional tax to make it fairer / easier, but had to abandon the plans in the face of the IRD’s decrepit systems.

      • McFlock 13.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 11:32 am

        What – national passed up an opportunity to blame Labour for something? Amazing.

        Of course, national’s priorities might not be to help small business, anyway, so the problem never occurred to them.

        National could easily have flagged this idea as part of the justification for the IRD upgrade.

      • Draco T Bastard 13.1.2
        17 July 2015 at 12:37 pm

        Labour’s problem is that they’re not in government, so they can suggest any great-sounding policy without actually having to implement it, or even study how to implement it.

        They’ve studied it and put forward ideas. Interestingly enough, National have now come out and said that Labour has stolen their policy.

        It’s no secret that IRD’s systems are undergoing a massive re-development at the moment, precisely because they are so unwieldy to update to respond to new government policy.

        That’s the big one and that needs to be done before any tax changes are put in place IMO. Of course, up until that point the politicians should be looking at renewing our entire tax system because at the moment it’s got way too many loopholes in it to be efficient and lets far too many people get away with not paying the taxes that they should be.

    • Puckish Rogue 13.2
      17 July 2015 at 11:38 am

      As I understand it you can do something similar to this. Every time you pay your GST you can also add in an extra amount tagged for Provisional tax. You can also make payments at anytime to provisional tax.

  14. adam 14
    17 July 2015 at 11:46 am

    Just a heads up Bernie Sanders will be doing some good old fashioned, organisation on the 29 th. He may be a social democrat, but he gets organisation and talking frankly with working people.

  16. Levi 16
    17 July 2015 at 12:40 pm

    Why is there so much bleating in the media about farmers needing help? Did they not make a lifestyle choice. Maybe they made some bad decisions similar to the children living in poverty who made a bad decision in choosing their parents. Surely they do not want the support of society because as their sainted Margaret Thatcher said, “they’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families.”

    • Puckish Rogue 16.1
      17 July 2015 at 12:56 pm

      I agree

    • Charles 16.2
      17 July 2015 at 2:09 pm

      Yes but they are Farmers, and Farmers starts with an F which is further along the alphabet than C for Children and it logically follows that last-on-is-first-off. While Farmers are out standing in their fields, Children often just sit around dying in poverty all day. Simple maths: two in the pocket equals votes on the downturn, so tally-ho the old jolly what what, eh, what?

  17. Puckish Rogue 17
    17 July 2015 at 1:01 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11482666

    Another lefty that needs to be excommunicated!

    • Paul 17.1
      17 July 2015 at 1:13 pm

      zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

      • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 1:24 pm

        Just another Lefty from the right wing of the party eh? Move along, nothing to see here

        • Paul 17.1.1.1
          17 July 2015 at 1:31 pm

          I repeat.

          How about you try posting some opinions that put forward your vision and ‘aspirations’ for New Zealand rather than the carping, snide, petty and puerile comments we have got to know you for?

          Is that within your remit ? Or are you told to simply come here to derail?

          • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1.1.1
            17 July 2015 at 2:36 pm

            How about you face the fact that Twyfords little announcement is being seen for what it was (dog whistling racism) and not just by people on the right but also by people on the left

  18. Ovid 18
    17 July 2015 at 1:29 pm

    After reading the Herald’s article, Labour revolt: Little under fire for singling out Chinese, I googled Shane Te Pou, the complainant cited in the story.

    In July 1997 the Sunday News reported that Mr Te Pou had been forced to quit as Labour Party Maori Council chairman after pressure from Helen Clark.

    Asked yesterday if her reasons for blocking Mr Te Pou’s appointment to Mr Samuels’ staff was related to his use of a union credit card, she said “yes.” – PM Bans Minister’s Choice of Assistant, NZ Herald 30 June 2000.

    He was also associated with Bill Liu:

    Revelations in court yesterday show the link goes further than just Jones, as Shane Phillips (also known as Shane Te Pou), a professional Labour Party fundraiser, had close links with Mr Yan, taking him on a trip to Hawke’s Bay which included a visit with then Labour Internal Affairs minister Rick Barker. – Shane Te Pou, unwanted baggage NBR 22 May 2012

    So I think his motives may not be so pure.

    • Paul 18.1
      17 July 2015 at 1:32 pm

      The Herald is reaching, to put it mildly.

    • Anne 18.2
      17 July 2015 at 1:49 pm

      Beat me to it Ovid. Another right winger is angling for his 15 mins of fame by resigning in a very public manner. Labour is no doubt the better for his departure too. He wants Little to apologise to him. I think he’s out of luck!

    • Visubversa 18.3
      17 July 2015 at 2:36 pm

      And him and his Lounge Lizard mate standing over and bullying people at the last Auckland List Conference.
      This wife is not the wife he cheated on by using the Union credit card in various brothels which got him turfed out of the Union job. Bloody good riddance I say.

    • Ovid 18.4
      17 July 2015 at 2:51 pm

      Apologies for the full-length article, this was from a database and is not linkable

      Helen Clark pressures Te Pou to quit, Sunday News, 13 July 1997, p.1. – David Fisher

      A TOP trade unionist and Labour Party Maori Council chairperson has quit under pressure from Helen Clark after she was told he misused union money.

      Shane Te Pou (30) was forced to quit as president of the Trade Union Federation, national secretary of the United Food and Beverage Workers Union and chairperson of the Labour Party Maori Council.

      It’s understood the $4000 involved has been repaid.

      Te Pou’s Auckland lawyer, Barry Wilson, faxed a statement to Sunday News saying his client resigned his posts for health reasons.

      “Mr Te Pou has recently suffered ill health, which has required him to undergo a minor medical procedure at Middlemore Hospital.

      “Accordingly he resigned from his positions in his union and the Labour Party to seek another career away from the union movement and politics.

      “There have been some vicious rumours circulating about Mr Te Pou. These are an indication of the extent to which people are prepared to get involved in scumbag politics.”

      Wilson also faxed a copy of Te Pou’s hand-written resignation to Labour Party president Michael Hirschfield which read: “Please accept this letter as my resignation from all official posts within the Labour Party. I will still remain a member of the Labour Party.”

      His resignation was accepted.

      Wilson said: “The other thing I’m absolutely emphatic about is he has not been involved in any misappropriation of funds. He has been ill, he had a medical procedure in Middlemore Hospital . . . an on-going gastric problem. It was stress-related. “He went into Middlemore Hospital about a month ago.”

      When we asked Clark whether she’d heard the allegation some of the $4000 union money was used in massage parlours, she said: “Yes, that was in the range of it . . .

      “I’ve heard the allegation and heard the union was taking action and did request letters of resignation go to the president.

      “I wouldn’t want to comment on exactly what he did. I don’t have it from the horse’s mouth.

      “I’ve heard it was serious enough for resignations . . .

      “The problem with politics is you only make one mistake.”

      When we called the United Food Beverage and General Workers Union last week a receptionist said Te Pou left on June 26 for health reasons.

      Acting national secretary Neville Donaldson refused to say why Te Pou left when we called him in Dunedin yesterday.

      “The union’s business is the union’s business. If the members wish to discuss it we will discuss it with them,” he said.

      Te Pou, who unsuccessfully sought Labour’s Tamaki candidacy in 1992, featured in a Metro magazine article in 1992 (from which his P1 photo was taken), headlined “Young Smarties”.

      It said he led his first strike at Kawerau High School over the curriculum. As a teenager he heckled National Party meetings and was Northern Hotel Workers Union president at 20.

      David Lange said Te Pou wouldn’t “abandon his roots for the sake of a free air ticket or a Bellamys lunch”.

      Te Pou said: “I can bring a grassroots affinity. I think I know where people are at.”

  19. James 19
    17 July 2015 at 2:02 pm

    Wahoo !!!!! Andrew Little agrees that Labour will be keeping the 90 day rule

    Changed a but from “We don’t need the 90-day law and under Labour it will go,”.

    So now Labour think they are either a good thing or necessary.

    • McFlock 19.1
      17 July 2015 at 2:23 pm

      Ah, this must be what you’re talking about.

      Funnily enough, I tend to agree with both helen Kelly and Stephen Joyce: weasel words to pander to an audience of tories, fudging the fact that the problem with fire-at-will is that it lacks fairness. So requiring fairness by definition removes fire-at-will. Whether the level of “fairness” is to return to the old probationary periods (or even stronger), or add some fudging around the terms that doesn’t really change too much, that’s weaselly.

      I’m unimpressed.

      • James 19.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 2:40 pm

        Nope – fairness will be …. “”We just want to make a requirement to give feedback so the person knows whether they’re on track to make the grade or not.””

        So – you he wants people to be told that they are on the firing track. I can live with that.

        Glad to see that he seems to realise that some people are just wrong and you have to get rid of them.

        However, Im guessing he will change his view yet again before the election.

        • McFlock 19.1.1.1
          17 July 2015 at 2:55 pm

          And how does regular performance feedback differ from the previous “probationary periods” in NZ labour law?

          • McFlock 19.1.1.1.1
            17 July 2015 at 3:04 pm

            oh, here we are.

            It seems that the main difference was “an obligation to communicate any concerns to the employee and obligations to supervise and review. ” Sounds pretty consistent with “give feedback so the person knows whether they’re on track to make the grade”.

            Probationary Periods under the Employment Relations Act Prior to 12th Dec 08

            Under section 67 of the Act parties to an employment agreement can agree to a probationary period but it must be specified in the agreement. The law relating to an unjustified dismissal still applies to a situation where an employee is dismissed during or at the end of a probationary period. Any decision to terminate employment during a probationary period must be accompanied by fair warning, an obligation to communicate any concerns to the employee and obligations to supervise and review. The employer would be faced with legal proceedings by the prospect of the employee being able to raise a personal grievance under the Employment Relations Act.

            Changes to the Employment Relations Act 2000 on 12th Dec 2008 regarding the 90 Day Probationary Period

            The changes to the Employment Relations Act 2000, were passed on the 12th December 2008 relating to trial periods, however this change in legislation will come into effect on 1 March 2009.

            Employers will only be allowed to enter into trial periods from 1 March 2009. Only employers who have 19 or fewer staff can offer trial employees to new staff members.

            Trial periods can only be entered into with an employee, only if the employer has never employed that employee before. The trial period must be agreed to in writing in accordance with good faith as part of a written employment agreement and signed by both parties and can last up to 90 calendar days.

            During the trial period, an employee has access to all the employment rights afforded to any other employee, including access to mediation services, and rights regarding health and safety, pay, etc. During this period an employer may terminate the employee’s employment, and the employee may not pursue a personal grievance on the grounds of unjustified dismissal. However, the employee may pursue other personal grievances, on the grounds specified in sections 103(1)(b) to (g) of the Employment Relations Act. These provisions relate to matters such as discrimination, racial or sexual harassment, duress in relation to membership (or non-membership) of a union etc.

            Employers must comply with any provisions in the employment agreement regarding notice, including the period of notice that must be given and whether notice must be in writing. Notice must be given within the trial period, even if the actual dismissal doesn’t become effective until after the trial period ends. Existing provisions for probationary periods of employment in the Employment Relations Act 2000 will remain.

    • Puckish Rogue 20.1
      17 July 2015 at 2:31 pm

      Oh this is funny 🙂

      • James 20.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 2:51 pm

        My fav Andrew Little 90 day trial quotes that are now rendered useless.

        “”We don’t need the 90-day law and under Labour it will go.”
        Source – https://www.labour.org.nz/media/90-day-law-sees-more-workers-shown-door

        “Labour would, however, not back away from its plans to change employment law, including scrapping the 90-day trial period for new employees.”

        – Radio NZ

        “Later Little told reporters Labour still opposed the 90 day trial, which many small businesses liked …..”

        – Interest.co.nz

        Will be interesting to see the unions get in behind this new approach.

        • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1.1
          17 July 2015 at 2:58 pm

          I’m sure that the next meeting he has down at the local union hall he’ll saying the 90 day law will be repealed, hes seems like a flip flop say anything to anyone type of guy

    • Charles 20.2
      17 July 2015 at 2:42 pm

      This is pretty amazing. I thought there was no way they’d try to go right, because, well, they couldn’t. But no, no hurdle is too impossible, they are actually going to try to become the National Party while National still exist. I can imagine Key leaning over to Nathan Guy and saying, “They… they can see us here, right?”

      So, let’s talk about the Green Party. hahaa

      • Puckish Rogue 20.2.1
        17 July 2015 at 2:48 pm

        Don’t worry i’m sure Paul will be able to explain why this isn’t moving Labour to the right

        This is great news for NZ by the way, it looks like Little has accepted the reality of the situation

    • Rosie 20.3
      17 July 2015 at 3:35 pm

      I know. Absolutely f-ing unbelievable.

      I did not become a Labour Party member to support anti worker bullshit like the 90 day law.

      Whilst never being fired under the 90 day Act I have had to deal with the huge amount of anxiety that this law creates. Having a policy of “Adding a fairness requirement” will not go any way towards reassuring workers in those anxious first three months.

      I’ve also seen a young friend go through the stress of his first three months at his very first job and he was so relieved when he got to the end of those three months. “Phew! Made it!” he texted. Is that any kind of condition to be working under??? FFS!!!

      The previous law that allowed for a trial period for both employer and employee but didn’t allow for workers to be fired at will without explanation as the 90 day Act does, was a fair law and workers knew where they stood and at least had the protection of the law if they were unjustifiably dismissed.

      Mr Little, do you want to win in 2017 or not? Or are you expecting the bosses to turn out and vote for you and the workers to stay home on election day?

      Thank goodness for Helen Kelly is there to challenge him and for the first time in my life I find myself agreeing with Steven Joyce and his comment that Andrew Little’s stance is “weasel words”

      • Puckish Rogue 20.3.1
        17 July 2015 at 3:44 pm

        Little wants to win thats why hes back tracking on this, voters of NZ agree with this so to go against it would be like National removing WFF (they should)

        Sometimes you have to swallow a dead rat or two…or three and Littles going to be doing a lot swallowing over the next few months/years

        • Rosie 20.3.1.1
          17 July 2015 at 3:54 pm

          PR. The headline may have well as read “Labour Leader seeks votes from minority. Workers can go take a hike”.

          If he doesn’t clarify this he will lose my vote and my membership.

          I would vote National if I wanted to see rights taken away from workers. It’s Labour’s job to restore those rights.

      • Rosie 20.3.2
        17 July 2015 at 3:51 pm

        Furthermore:

        From the article:

        “The question frequently came up from employers, Little said, with every employer indicating they already gave feedback to any worker they let go, so they would not be affected under Labour’s policy.”

        Two questions. “every employer”. Is that every employer ever since 2008 has given feedback to the employees they fired, or just the ones who told Andrew Little they did, and how can we trust their word anyway?

        Does feedback like “I didn’t like they way you dressed” or what ever the employer decides to make up to justify their decision, make it OK that they are being fired? How is that making the 90 day Act fairer?

      • Karen 20.3.3
        17 July 2015 at 3:52 pm

        +1 Rosie.
        Please send this post (at 20.3) to Little, Rosie.

        Everybody who is enraged at this needs to start lobbying now.

        • Rosie 20.3.3.1
          17 July 2015 at 4:01 pm

          Good point Karen.

          I’m actually hoping he will write a post about it for TS readers and we can have an open discussion with him. Clarity is required for Labour members, non members, workers and potential Labour voters.

        • Chris 20.3.3.2
          17 July 2015 at 11:45 pm

          “Everybody who is enraged at this needs to start lobbying now.”

          Why? What difference will it make? We might lobby a right-wing government and win a small battle. It’s always worth doing that, for the benefit of those affected, keeping the pressure up, maintaining a sense of opposition and critique in a democratic society etc etc. But lobbying a political party that’s made up of people who’re meant to be our friends? On individual issues we think important despite knowing that Labour reflects core values and beliefs anathema to our core values and beliefs? That’s just finger in the dyke stuff. Labour is beyond redemption. We need to start treating Labour as the irrelevancy its become. Continuing to have hope that Labour might some day change is akin to colluding with keys and his henchmen because it means offering no opposition. That’s why things have become so tragic.

      • marty mars 20.3.4
        17 July 2015 at 4:19 pm

        + 1 Rosie – although I’ll never agree with anything joyce says even if he is correct lol.

        This is a dark day indeed.

        • Rosie 20.3.4.1
          17 July 2015 at 4:54 pm

          It’s a bit much marty mars.

          I’m already reeling from the pro government statement I heard last night, from the head and founder of an NGO, who also managed to completely blame the very people they serve, for the circumstances they find themselves in. Imagine Mike Hoskings in charge supporting vulnerable people and you have this person.

          I have been considering the idea of exposing this NGO for their hypocrisy and ignorance but it would harm the people they are there to support and it would get another person in trouble who doesn’t deserve to be in trouble. I have been grappling with this today.

          And now this. Black is white and white is black.

          It’s a stunning evening with the sun going down soon and I want to go and catch those beautiful rays before they disappear, go feed my ducks and chill out.

          Over and out for now.

      • Chris 20.3.5
        17 July 2015 at 5:02 pm

        How long should we keep trusting Labour? What will it take for us to realise what its become?

    • Chris 20.4
      17 July 2015 at 4:49 pm

      Should we be surprised by this? Yes, of course we can say that Little’s sold out and should resign blah blah blah, but who’d replace him? What would any Labour leader do differently? When die-hard Labour supporters finally understand what Labour has irrevocably become the better. Because as soon as that happens we’ll have the long-overdue impetus needed to obliterate Labour from the political landscape and to start again from scratch to create a proper party of the left. Current Labour is infested to the core with right-wing ideology and is no longer viable. “Broad church” my arse. That’s the excuse we’re all fed to make us believe these goons are still on our side. They’re not and haven’t been for a very long time. We all need to realise this.

  21. Chooky 21
    17 July 2015 at 2:29 pm

    ‘Baby Boomers strike back – “Economic nationalists Vs Global cosmopolitans” – Phil Quin & Keith Ng – your membership papers for the Green Party are ready’

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/07/16/baby-boomers-strike-back-economic-nationalists-vs-global-cosmopolitans-phil-quin-keith-ng-your-membership-papers-for-the-green-party-are-ready/

    …”I was invited to Labour’s Auckland meeting with Caucus last night and I was keen to hear what they thought about their Chinese speculator crusade and how it was impacting them.

    Firstly, the place was genuinely buzzing. 300 people make some noise and it wasn’t the usual Labour Party diehards, it was money people who aren’t getting any traction with National because they aren’t personal friends with Steven Joyce. Bankers mixed with NGOs, the wine was being gulped back the way nervous children drink before their divorced parents turn up for Christmas dinner….”

    • Colonial Viper 21.1
      17 July 2015 at 4:01 pm

      Labour loves getting a bit of loving from the top 10%

      • Chooky 21.1.1
        17 July 2015 at 6:53 pm

        …suggest you read the whole thing and all the comments….this has support from New Zealand working class youth!

        …as well as their NZ parents who had a free education, could afford to buy a house and had a job….hence entering the middleclass

        …these are not wealthy overseas investors buying up multiple homes…but modest New Zealanders

        Labour is on to a winner!

        • Colonial Viper 21.1.1.1
          17 July 2015 at 7:04 pm

          “Modest NZers” have not been able to afford Auckland homes since about 2003-2004

          • Chooky 21.1.1.1.1
            17 July 2015 at 7:17 pm

            suggest you read the whole thing…including comments…without spinning diversions

  22. rhinocrates 22
    17 July 2015 at 3:38 pm

    Others have said it already above, but it deserves not just another reply, but a chorus.

    You’ll all be leased to know that the Labour leadership are no longer stabbing each other in the back – now they’re stabbing the workers in the back.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/70319219/labour-would-retain-90day-trial-periods-but-make-them-fairer–little

    Fuck you Little, you are a weasel.

    • Puckish Rogue 22.1
      17 July 2015 at 3:45 pm

      Maybe Little really has been listening to small business owners…stranger things have happened at sea I guess

    • Colonial Viper 22.2
      17 July 2015 at 3:57 pm

      Fucking hell.

      The Labour strategy for 2017 becomes clearer day by day

      • The lost sheep 22.2.1
        17 July 2015 at 4:24 pm

        Yup, first the NZ First style Chinese attack, and now we see the follow up National Lite support for the 90 day legislation….
        It’s clear that Labour have decided how they need to present the Party in order to directly target the Center / Center Right voters they need to win the next election.

        Will be fascinating to see where they go if they get an immediate poll bump….

    • Coffee Connoisseur 22.3
      17 July 2015 at 4:09 pm

      I disagree. As a business owner this has freed up our ability to hire. It even gives us clear guidelines on managing the transition of staff into the business. That 3 months (and it doesn’t need to be any longer) focus us on doing everything that we need to do as an employer by ensuring that the employee understands the job and what we need them to do in a non confrontational way.
      Employees are more focussed on what they need to do and aren’t afraid to raise issues. They see that we want them to succeed. We chose them out of another 30 odd applicants. Our work place is happier, more inclusive. It has been much better all around.
      I actually think it has struck the right balance.

      • Puckish Rogue 22.3.1
        17 July 2015 at 4:18 pm

        This. + 1000

        Far too many people on here see employers and owners as “the enemy” and don’t want to/can’t see the issues facing employers

        At least Little has realised that helping employers is not the end of the world

        Hes gone up in my estimation

        • Paul 22.3.1.1
          17 July 2015 at 4:55 pm

          Long shift today.
          Hope you are on more than the minimum wage.

        • Chooky 22.3.1.2
          17 July 2015 at 6:49 pm

          +100 PR….on a rare occasion I agree with you Puckish Rogue….and good call by Andrew Little and Labour imo…small businesses often struggle and many businesses are very good employers

          Labour is definitely on the up and up

          • Chooky 22.3.1.2.1
            17 July 2015 at 7:05 pm

            btw… here I am talking about Labour’s flexible plans to help small businesses do their commercial book keeping as required incrementally without penalities for being late

            …about 90 day trial periods I have reservations because of unfair dismissals and the potential for exploitation …however the CTU line on Labour policy is :

            “If Labour introduced “just cause” provisions to the trials to allow personal grievances, the CTU could accept that, as this returned to the earlier rules in existing laws covering probationary periods.”

    • rhinocrates 22.4
      17 July 2015 at 4:57 pm

      Labour’s arms:

      On a flimsy shield of light blue, a chicken, rampant, with one right wing, two left feet and a tin ear. Supporters: on the right, a CEO in a suit of grey. On the left…? Motto: “This space for hire: cheap rates”

  23. Coffee Connoisseur 23
    17 July 2015 at 4:00 pm

    Today on Whale Oil I got banned because I wouldn’t stop making comments like this.

    I don’t think that’s going to be the case. I think kiwis are genuinely concerned about the issue of overseas investors driving up house prices. Yeah the data wasn’t the best but it was probably the best obtainable at the time. Labour said it wasn’t the best and that better data was needed. National modus operandai on issues like this seems to be deny deny deny, then obfuscate as much as possible. They did the same with children in poverty and their delaying around providing information on OIA requests smacks of the same arrogant mentality.
    These guys are in there to work for us. Get the good data, put it out for the public to see. then deal with the issue. If you don’t want to deal with it because you and your fellow Mps own property in Auckland. Say so. The next election will probably take care of their position on that.
    I guess it depends on how much our childrens future and ensuring it is a good one matters to people, If it doesn’t we can stick with the starus quo.

    • Chooky 23.1
      17 July 2015 at 6:44 pm

      +100…jonkey nactional hopes we will ignore it if there are no stats…and the problem will go away or be buried …especially if the Greens and other idiots accuse Labour and NZF and everyone else of being racist …. for talking about their experiences

  24. Macro 24
    17 July 2015 at 4:24 pm

    The level of detail in the latest Pluto fly by images is astounding!
    https://twitter.com/paulcoxon/status/621416714694225920/photo/1

  25. millsy 25
    17 July 2015 at 5:07 pm

    Good to see that Little agrees workers are expendable.

  26. rhinocrates 26
    17 July 2015 at 5:46 pm

    Looks like Young Labour are tired of being bullied and shat on:

    https://twitter.com/younglabournz/status/621893604848447488/photo/1

    Bravo.

  27. North 27
    17 July 2015 at 11:27 pm

    Since ages ago and on numerous occasions I’ve been made aware that guards at MECF-Serco in Mt Eden advisedly give the blind eye to extreme violence. I believe these accounts. Latest events vindicate such a belief.

    The garish immediate past Corrections minister Tolley and the present out-of-his-depth minister, Key’s favourite fiapalagi Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, must be ejected from Cabinet. Last task – accompany Serco out of New Zealand back to the UK. Collins was Corrections minister not that long ago. That should be her task as well.

    It beggars belief that with Key’s much-vaunted “no surprises” imperative all of these ministers did not know about all of this. Hoisting off to foreign rentiers the New Zealand communities’ responsibility to deal with its societal dysfunction is a recipe for disaster. It’s “PPPP”. “Piss on Prisons and People for Profit”.

    Outrageous !

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